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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Ratfuckers R Us (Open Thread)

Ratfuckers R Us (Open Thread)

by Betty Cracker|  October 9, 20181:00 pm| 42 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Open Threads, Trump Crime Cartel, Trump-Russia

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Yesterday’s NYT included an article on Manafort deputy Rick Gates’ receipt of a proposal from an Israeli firm to “create fake online identities, to use social media manipulation and to gather intelligence” to help Team Trump. The company, Psy-Group, originally came to Gates’ attention at a March 2016 meeting. They submitted a proposal to run influence campaigns to ensure RNC delegates didn’t bolt from Trump to Ted Cruz. Psy-Group wasn’t hired for that job.

But the owner of the company, Joel Zamel, met with Trump Jr. in August of 2016 to propose a general election influence operation. Here’s the NYT’s report on the second proposal:

A second proposal focused on gathering information about Mrs. Clinton and 10 of her associates through publicly available data as well as unspecified “complementary intelligence activities.” Psy-Group promised to prepare a comprehensive dossier on each of the targets, including “any actionable intelligence.”

A third document emphasized “tailored third-party messaging” aimed at minority, suburban female and undecided voters in battleground states. It promised to create and maintain fake online personas that would deliver messages highlighting Mr. Trump’s merits and Mrs. Clinton’s weaknesses or revealing “rifts and rivalries within the opposition.”

Though it appears that Trump campaign officials declined to accept any of the proposals, Mr. Zamel pitched the company’s services in at least general terms during a meeting on Aug. 3, 2016, at Trump Tower with Donald Trump Jr. That meeting, revealed in May by The Times, was also attended by George Nader, an emissary from the ruler of the United Arab Emirates, and by Erik Prince, a Republican donor and the founder of the private security company formerly known as Blackwater.

The report says Nader paid Zamel $2M after the election but that the two have given differing accounts of whether or not Psy-Group provided services to the Trump campaign. Also, remember the witness tampering attempt that led to Manafort being jailed prior to his court date? The witness in question was Eckart Sager, the political consultant who first hooked Psy-Group up with Gates.

The report says it doesn’t appear that the Trump campaign used Psy-Group, and it’s unclear if it would have been illegal if they did. The $2M strikes me as a paltry sum considering the scale of the influence campaign we all saw with our own eyes in 2016, but the measures taken — including the use of trolls to foment dissent between opposition groups — sure looks familiar.

My guess is the Trump campaign chose the free — or quid pro quo — influence campaign provided by the Kremlin instead. The NYT article makes it clear the Mueller team is all over this. Maybe someday we’ll get the truth. But in the meantime, perhaps add “make it illegal for campaigns to hire troll farms to create fake social media identities and spread disinformation” to the post-Trump to-do list.

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Reader Interactions

42Comments

  1. 1.

    The Moar You Know

    October 9, 2018 at 1:03 pm

    The same people who ratfucked us in 2016 are at work and have almost won in Brazil – one more election away. The Brazilian Nazi has campaigned exclusively on Facebook and is promising guns for everyone. In a country that is responsible for one out of every ten murders worldwide. Sound familiar? I’ll bet he’s gotten some checks from the NRA.

    The Psy-Group guys sound like a small business Johnny-come-latelies who are just trying to cash in on what has become a very successful method of getting people elected. Although I doubt they can deliver the goods like Putin’s Social Media Army can.

  2. 2.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    October 9, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    and it’s unclear if it would have been illegal if they did

    That’s what wrong with this country. It should be.
    @The Moar You Know:

    The Brazilian Nazi has campaigned exclusively on Facebook and is promising guns for everyone. In a country that is responsible for one out of every ten murders worldwide. Sound familiar? I’ll bet he’s gotten some checks from the NRA.

    The insanity so unique to America is spreading. No where to run to.

  3. 3.

    Martin

    October 9, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    Planet Money has a good episode titled ‘Moneyland‘, which suggests that the money laundering world is sufficiently large to represent a direct threat to democracy. Of course features Manafort.

    I think if we were to consider anyone engaged in the money laundering economy as being of their own nation (which of course includes a shitton of Russians) then this whole situation makes a lot more sense. Thinking about the Russia connections as reflecting Russian ideology misses things entirely. This is about maximizing the power of the shadow economy through control of Russia and the US (and previously Ukraine) and possibly others. If they adopted a catchy name like SPECTRE this would all be a lot easier.

  4. 4.

    Mart

    October 9, 2018 at 1:13 pm

    Is it Kosher (pun intended) to use a foreign firm to influence an election in the USA.

  5. 5.

    Sebastian

    October 9, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    Remember how Nixon and his gang analyzed what kind of behavior was typical in groups that were opposed to them and made that illegal? I am talking about weed and heroin and the resulting war on drugs.

    We have to do the same, starting with changing laws and prosecuting death threats and doxxing, as well as conspiracy to do so.

    That will lock up thousands of Reichwingers.

  6. 6.

    Betty Cracker

    October 9, 2018 at 1:21 pm

    @Mart: IIRC, the NYT report says the Israeli company got a U.S. legal firm to certify that the methods proposed were legal. It involved hiring US-based people to work on the influence campaign — maybe that’s how they get around the foreign influence angle?

    I think the problem (well, ONE of the many problems!) is that our campaign media disclosure laws are antiquated. They’re built for straightforward ad buys for TV and newspapers, not programmatic buying on social media. Unfortunately, all the momentum for regulation is going in the wrong direction.

  7. 7.

    The Moar You Know

    October 9, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    starting with changing laws and prosecuting death threats and doxxing, as well as conspiracy to do so.

    @Sebastian: I had thought that death threats were illegal but the last two decades have amply shown that is not the case. Totally on board with this. And the charges for conspiracy, so long as those include online providers who host the info.

    Time to get rid of the “safe harbor” protections of the DMCA. This is no longer about some kid hosting Metallica’s entire shitty recorded output, this is about people having their lives permanently ruined by psychos with a grudge and rudimentary search skills. No safe harbor for them.

  8. 8.

    Anonymous At Work

    October 9, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    Question: Would a firm like Psy-Group be able to track whether candidates were benefiting from the same sort of dirty tricks operations they used? I.e. could the $2 million payment to the Israeli ratf-ckers be to cover the trail of Russian ratf-ckers?

  9. 9.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 9, 2018 at 1:33 pm

    They went active. The code name they assigned to the President was “Lion”. The indefatigable Caroline Orr has the data and explanation:

    So… you know how I keep asking about the lion pictures that appear on so many Russian-linked accounts?

    The Psy-Group mentions "pro-lion" targeting as part of their social manipulation effort for Trump's campaign (also notable: pro-bear…) pic.twitter.com/js4aoBoaci

    — Caroline O. (@RVAwonk) October 8, 2018

    The pro-lion thing has appeared in almost every major social media campaign I can think of since the primaries. Including those fake accounts I caught posing as Parkland students, as well as recent pro-Kavanaugh disinformation. https://t.co/YvaenXrwJJ pic.twitter.com/Jv1uLeTMTA

    — Caroline O. (@RVAwonk) October 8, 2018

    So the big takeaway here: Although NYT reports that's it's still unclear whether the social media manipulation plan proposed by Psy-Group was actually executed … we're, um, kind of looking at it.

    Which seems like a pretty BFD.

    — Caroline O. (@RVAwonk) October 8, 2018

  10. 10.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 9, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Here’s my post on the Psy-group from last May:
    https://balloon-juice.com/2018/05/19/the-trump-doctrine-in-action-during-the-campaign-is-there-any-agent-of-influence-donald-trump-jr-didnt-meet-with/

    Zamel, who owns/runs Psy-group is connected to Oleg Deripaska. And he is tight with the current Israeli governing coalition.

  11. 11.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 9, 2018 at 1:36 pm

    @Mart: No.

  12. 12.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 9, 2018 at 1:40 pm

    @Anonymous At Work: The Israeli ratfuckers are connected to the Russian ratfuckers. A significant number of the Russian oligarchs who provide the financial bulwark for Putin, who work in both the legitimate business sector and are also running Russian organized crimes, and whose legitimate and illegitimate businesses are wired into the Russian Intelligence Services are Jewish/of Jewish descent. Deripaska, Abramovich, Blavatnick, Agalarov, etc. Their man in Israel is Avigdor Lieberman, the Israeli Defense Minister.

  13. 13.

    Mike in DC

    October 9, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    Went in for a kidney stone yesterday, came back from an appendectomy this morning. Gonna be one of those weeks. On the plus side, I will be watching the news while heavily medicated.

  14. 14.

    trollhattan

    October 9, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    @Mike in DC:
    Yikes! “Hey doc, while you’re in there….”

    Medication or no, stay away from the news. Gotta be something enjoyable on.

    Get mo better fast!

  15. 15.

    oatler.

    October 9, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    Roseanne said she’s moving to Israel.

  16. 16.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 9, 2018 at 1:48 pm

    @oatler.: She’s Jewish, under the Law of Return they have to take her. My guess is it was the only place that would. Other than say Mississippi or Alabama.

  17. 17.

    The Moar You Know

    October 9, 2018 at 1:55 pm

    Here’s my post on the Psy-group from last May:
    https://balloon-juice.com/2018/05/19/the-trump-doctrine-in-action-during-the-campaign-is-there-any-agent-of-influence-donald-trump-jr-didnt-meet-with/

    Zamel, who owns/runs Psy-group is connected to Oleg Deripaska. And he is tight with the current Israeli governing coalition.

    @Adam L Silverman: Thank you. Looks like it’s Russians all the way up my asshole and then some. Damn.

    Still think they’re hard at work in Brazil – this lunatic didn’t come out of nowhere.

  18. 18.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 9, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    @The Moar You Know: GG raised him in a tank and decanted him six months ago.

  19. 19.

    Dan B

    October 9, 2018 at 2:03 pm

    @Mike in DC: My sympathies for your surgery. I had appendicitis twice. The srcond yime they took it out after I screamed “take it out, repeat…” nonstop for an hour and a half.

  20. 20.

    Dan B

    October 9, 2018 at 2:06 pm

    Mr. Silverman are you in Michael’s path? Seems like you are. BTW my partner’s name is Mike (Michael). He sends his apologies.

  21. 21.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 9, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    @Dan B: I am not. Michael has swung way west and is now aimed at the middle of Florida’s panhandle. I’m expecting a prolonged version of the heavy monsoon/thunder storm combinations we’ve been having all summer. The panhandle is going to get hammered!

    Our best short-range weather model has #HurricaneMichael entirely in view — showing landfall in the Big Bend of Florida — just east of Panama City by Wednesday evening.
    Simulated radar shows well defined clear eye — and impressive rain bands.
    Model lowest pressure 945 mb. pic.twitter.com/JEXCpbmTsT

    — Ryan Maue | weathermodels.com (@RyanMaue) October 9, 2018

    HRRR expects the eye to become well defined and clear …
    Water vapor forecast imagery shows a major / catastrophic #HurricaneMichael pic.twitter.com/BWXOVqu33b

    — Ryan Maue | weathermodels.com (@RyanMaue) October 9, 2018

  22. 22.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 9, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    @Dan B: And it’s Adam.

  23. 23.

    trollhattan

    October 9, 2018 at 2:21 pm

    @oatler.:
    “Bye Felicia.”

    Like cancer, she’ll be back. Even if we don’t “deserve” her talents and sparkling personality.

    Fully expect to see videos of her yelling at Palestinians through enclave fencing.

  24. 24.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 9, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    @The Moar You Know: not a fan, but I did enjoy their unlikely cover of “Louie, Louie”.

    Sorry–did I miss the point of your post?

  25. 25.

    Anonymous At Work

    October 9, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: So the Israeli pitch could have been cover for briefing Trump’s goons about what the Russians were planning on doing, and the payment was actual payment? That’s one stupid wire transfer away from being provable in a court of law.
    Then again, never assume conspiracy when stupidity will suffice.

  26. 26.

    Jeffro

    October 9, 2018 at 2:26 pm

    My guess is the Trump campaign chose the free — or quid pro quo — influence campaign provided by the Kremlin instead. The NYT article makes it clear the Mueller team is all over this.

    And you just know at least one of these schmucks sent an email that says this, literally: “Hey Jr, this is Mikey C…since the Russkies are willing to do our dirty work for us for free, let’s drop these Psy-Op guys, whaddya say?”
    “

  27. 27.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 9, 2018 at 2:26 pm

    @Anonymous At Work: I can’t prove it, but…

  28. 28.

    Aardvark Cheeselog

    October 9, 2018 at 2:32 pm

    Is it still to early to advocate for publically-financed campaigns?

  29. 29.

    Mnemosyne

    October 9, 2018 at 2:34 pm

    @Mike in DC:

    Yikes! So were they mistaken about the kidney stone, or were you lucky enough to have both happen at the same time?

  30. 30.

    Mike in DC

    October 9, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Oh, I won the buy 1 get one free. Surgery for the appendix, “take some pain relievers and let us know when it passes” for the kidney stone. Uh, thanks?

  31. 31.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 9, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    @Mike in DC: was it less painful than document review?

  32. 32.

    mike in dc

    October 9, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Hmm. Gonna call it a push.

  33. 33.

    Anonymous At Work

    October 9, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: You’re not Mueller nor do you have access to what he has access to…
    Then again, think of it this way: Eric and/or Don Jr. were involved, so how water-tight could it be?

  34. 34.

    gvg

    October 9, 2018 at 3:31 pm

    Adam, my impression was the Russians are still really antisemitic . Why would some of Israel and other Jews have anything to do with them? years ago, I recall that many Russian Jews tried to immigrate to Israel and the Soviets came around to letting them because it was an easy way to get rid of them. I really find it confusing now.

  35. 35.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    October 9, 2018 at 3:42 pm

    Trump is always going to choose free. He hates paying for anything. Having to pay is “unfair.”

  36. 36.

    Steve in the ATL

    October 9, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    @gvg: they are. Maybe they hate some of the other same people?

    US evangelicals are anti-semitic as well, but lurv Israel because of their beliefs in bringing in armageddon and thus the return of Jesus, which they presumably assume also means the death of all gays, blacks, sluts, and other Democrats.

  37. 37.

    Captain C

    October 9, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: They didn’t take Meyer Lansky, Granted, Roseanne is not, so far as anyone knows, a high level mob money launderer, but still…

  38. 38.

    Tenar Arha

    October 9, 2018 at 5:04 pm

    @gvg: I’m not an expert but I’ve heard much talk about “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” from Israelis & Jewish right wingers in my family

    ETA grammar

  39. 39.

    Mnemosyne

    October 9, 2018 at 5:19 pm

    @gvg:

    IIRC, Israel and Russia have bonded over their mutual hatred of Islam. Russia’s not going to worry about wiping out the Jews until the Muslims are out of the way, and Israel is happy to go along since they assume they’ll be able to protect themselves.

  40. 40.

    Shalimar

    October 9, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: From the few tweets I saw on LGM, GG seems terrified of the fascist. Not that this would necessarily disprove him having something to do with ratfucking that elevated said fascist a little farther than it was supposed to.

  41. 41.

    J R in WV

    October 9, 2018 at 6:27 pm

    @Mike in DC:

    Went in for a kidney stone yesterday, came back from an appendectomy this morning.

    Ouch!!!! Hang in there. At least an appendectomy isn’t something that repeats like Kidney stones do. Had a co-worker collapse in my cube one afternoon, my first managerial command was “Call 911~!!~”

    Hope you do well soonest. Don’t watch the news, even with great post-op medication it will harm your recovery. Use Youtube to listen to Tedeschi Trucks, there are whole concerts and albums out there.

  42. 42.

    bluefish

    October 9, 2018 at 7:37 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Lurker coming by to say thank you for speaking of Brasil. Preach!

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