Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

T R E 4 5 O N

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

We still have time to mess this up!

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Let there be snark.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

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Monday Morning Open Thread

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139Comments

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Te reo Māori, the language of New Zealand’s indigenous people has been undergoing a revival and big business has taken note. Google has launched a Māori version of its website, Google Maps is recording more accurate Māori pronunciations, and Disney has released a Māori version of the hit Polynesian film Moana.

    “There’s an increasing sense that te reo is good for identifying your business as committed to New Zealand,” said Ngahiwi Apanui, chief executive of the Māori Language Commission.

    But Coca-Cola’s attempts to use the native tongue, which is an official language of New Zealand, has fallen flat. A Coke vending machine emblazoned with the words “Kia ora, Mate”, translates into te reo as “Hello, Death”.

    This is almost as good as the Chevy “No va”.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    Marking an anniversary.

    It was 108 years ago today when the first words crackled from the sky:

    “Roy, come and get this goddamn cat!”

  8. 8.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @JPL: An exercise in gluttony.

    It was very different from the previous Farwig Farm Harvest Festivals in that my buddy and his wife had to go to a funeral for the sudden death of one of his HS buddies that day. So the usually suspect helpmates took over the final preparations on Saturday. All was well but people did not start showing up until much later than usual. Also the weather was exceptionally shitty with highs in the 40s and misty rain all day long, which definitely suppressed the expected turnout (app 80 out of 120) and all had a good time with hay rides, fireworks, and did I mention food? Lots of food. There are children starving in China today because of all the food we ate.

    Took me all day yesterday to recover.

  10. 10.

    DanF

    Republicans: WE MUST PROTECT OUR SACRED VOTE FROM FRAUD!

    Democrats: So you agree we should do something about Russia tampering with our elections.

    Republicans:
    Democrats:
    Republicans: PEOPLE WITHOUT ID ARE VOTING!!

  23. 23.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @JPL: As one of the “chefs” I felt I had the right to cut into the line so I could bring home some pig for the wife who had to leave early due to continuing back issues. However by the time I came back for a 2nd pass to get a taste of all the stuff I hadn’t had room for on my plate the first time thru, I was confronted by the absolute devastation of the potluck, a line of empty crockpots, salad bowls, and baking tins with little more than crusty scrapings left to be gnawed.

  24. 24.

    Schlemazel

    @germy:
    vote suppression is easy when you can demographically define your voters very clearly.

    I find myself in a Pittsburgh Hotel room with a lovely view of the 376 freeway and some sort of church bathed in red light (looks evil against the night sky). Had to stop for a pair of white tail deer that wanted to cross the street in a very urban section of Forbes Ave near CMU. I was pretty surprised to see them

  28. 28.

    rikyrah

    @germy:
    Uh huh
    Uh huh

    I work in elections. In pretty much the largest jurisdiction of the state, and WE don’t reject thousands of MAIL BALLOTS.

    This isn’t provisionals..this is MAIL BALLOTS ???

  30. 30.

    Schlemazel

    @rikyrah:
    I saw that and assumed it was just trolling libs. I realise it is hair furor and no amount of self love would be surprising but this seems comical

  35. 35.

    debbie

    @rikyrah:

    Believe it or not, she received criticism for the partially buttoned coat at Eugenie’s wedding. “She’s just grabbing attention.” Sad to think there are stupid people over there like there are here.

  37. 37.

    Schlemazel

    @Baud:
    Nah, there is some goofball that paints pictures of a bunch of dead Presidents playing cards or pool with whomever the current office holder is/ When it was a Dem, Clinton or Obama it was FDR, Truman, JFK & LBJ when it was a GOPper, Bush or That Thing it is Republicans, usually with Lincoln tossed in without irony and of course no Harding, Coolidge or Hoover

  41. 41.

    Greg Ferguson

    My friend Darrin has been through a couple of years of hell and is looking at more without a little help. As is often the case, depression is making him lowball his needs, but he has, at least, set up a GoFundMe appeal here:

    I know that hurricane relief & campaign contributions are claiming the bulk of our attention, but please give his case a read. I must say that better coordinated VA & local social services would not have put im in his current bind, but there we are.
    I can also be reached for queries on his situation. Thanks to all Jackals (& friends) who might give him a leg up.

  43. 43.

    Kay

    Looking at the national news, would you know health care was the #1 issue with voters?

    Although health care remains the No. 1 issue with voters — and Democratic candidates — the perception of political scandal in Columbus is hitting home with voters

    You really have to give Democrats credit- despite a national news blackout on health care- well, all issues really- they still managed to make it a huge part of literally every race. Which is good! Since it’s “the #1 issue with voters”.

    This is a replay of 2016 – they’re covering Donald Trump’s celebrity reality show instead of covering issues.

  44. 44.

    Immanentize

    @raven: So great! Who is that fellow in the last picture in the Dawgs shirt?

    And I see wearing a shirt was optional in front of the Whitehouse.

  46. 46.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @R-Jud: Why do you hate this child so?

    @debbie: Americans don’t have a monopoly on stupidity.

    ETA tho we do put our own special stamp on it.

  48. 48.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly: @?BillinGlendaleCA: ?

    @rikyrah: @Baud: Good morning ?

    We’re going to have the first freeze overnight tonight, so I have a busy day today getting the rest of the tender plants inside somewhere. Where is the problem. And it’s not predicted to go above the mid fifties anymore this year (so far) so I need to schedule the furnace check and cleanup because I am going to end up turning it on way early this year. ?

  50. 50.

    Schlemazel

    @Baud:
    I was talking to a couple of Assies at my conference yesterday & reflected on this a bit. I was really stunned at how familiar they were with American politics. They knew a lot about what went on and a lot of the players. What they didn’t get was how Putin was so successful. I told them that he had no idea he could pull this off & am pretty sure he was unprepared or it. What he really wanted to do was to hamstring Clinton and weaken her ability to respond to his actions. He did better than he could ever have dreamed.

    It would have been 4 years of hell had she won even if she had managed to expose the Putin operation. I have no idea how ugly this election cycle would be. The only thing worse would be Dump winning & we sadly know how bad that is

  55. 55.

    Kay

    I canvassed Saturday in this absolutely bizarre “gated community” that has fallen on hard times. Tons of vacant houses, the man-made “lake” (a pond, really) was covered in algae and the member-maintained roads were falling apart. There was a wild turkey hen sitting in the middle of one of the side streets, just as comfortable as she could be, confident no one would be traveling that road. The wind was whistling through the overgrown grass in the common areas and the bird is just eyeing me and I couldn’t wait to get out of there. I did meet this insanely enthusiastic Democrat, an elderly lady, probably 90, who said “where have you been?” Well, I don’t know. Not here! It’s too spooky here! I also got followed for a while by an old man in a golf cart but I waved at him and he drove away. I think he’s security.

  59. 59.

    Baud

    Al Roker had been good on climate change over the last few months. I remember when meteorologists wouldn’t touch the issue.

  62. 62.

    Schlemazel

    @Barbara:
    this sighting was about here:
    https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4391104,-79.9606818,17z

    Both your & mine were much more urban than I would expect to see odocoileus virginianus. I live in an near suburb to Mpls, built primarily in the 30s and 40s. It does have a fair amount of open space though. We get deer visiting our gardens all year long but I was really surprised to see these guys appear

  65. 65.

    Baud

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Senator Elizabeth Warren has released a DNA test that provides “strong evidence’’ she had a Native American in her family tree dating back 6 to 10 generations, an unprecedented move by one of the top possible contenders for the 2020 Democratic nomination for president.

    Warren, whose claims to Native American blood have been mocked by President Trump and other Republicans, provided the test results to the Globe on Sunday in an effort to defuse questions about her ancestry that have persisted for years. She planned an elaborate rollout Monday of the results as she aimed for widespread attention.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2018/10/15/warren-addresses-native-american-issue/YEUaGzsefB0gPBe2AbmSVO/story.html

  73. 73.

    SFAW

    @CliosFanboy:

    and??? what did it say??

    It said one of her fake Native American ancestors had granite countertops, I think.

    And that she wasn’t Cherokee, but Oglala Sioux or perhaps Nipmuc or Wampanoag or Onondaga, so everything she’s ever said has been a LIE! Game, set, and touchdown, libtard!! PWNED!!

    ETA: It’s probably a futile hope, but: I hope that, before I die, there is some semblance of a return to sanity of political discourse in the US. I’m relatively healthy, so I hope that gives me a chance at seeing it, but every day that the Party of Traitors rules, it moves us further from that goal.

    Fuckem

  74. 74.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    My partner and I split up to save time and he texted me about an hour in- “where are you at?” – chicken :)

    Save yourself. I can’t help you now.

  80. 80.

    Kay

    They do all this “pocohontas” bullshit because they have nothing to say on health care or education or Trump’s crap tax law or anything else that is real.

    But you knew that. Too bad they;ve succeeded in making Trump’s bullshit all that national political media covers not just in presidential elections years like 2016 but all the time. He owns them. He so dominates and they have no earthly idea how to get out from under him.

    That the Democratic candidates themselves have managed to allow some discussion of issues in this climate is amazing.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I’ve seen deeds to those properties in probate but I;ve never been out there- it’s 30 miles east. The heirs were trying to quit claim to some other family member because the property is worthless and they don’t want to pay the association fees or property taxes. You can’t give them away. Why they wanted or needed a “gated community” in such a rural area is a mystery. No one is trying to get in there. I had trouble finding the turn off. So they could have shitty gravel roads?

  83. 83.

    Baud

    @Kay: Reporters are asking Hillary about Monica and whether Bill should have resigned. I guess there’s not much real news to talk about right now.

  88. 88.

    bemused

    @rikyrah:

    About ten years ago, a group started up a small town MN faith and finance bank, Riverview Community Bank and hung a painting of Jesus in the boardroom in the bank along with workplace praying. The bank wasn’t in business for avery long. No one here would be shocked that the “christian’ run bank was shut down for fraudulent reasons.

    One owner and director was the former MN Secretary of State, now a MN senator, Mary Kiffmeyer. As SOS, Kiffmeyer tried to mess with voting rights and wanted posters warning against terriorists in polling places to beware of men wearing perfume and muttering to themselves. Thankfully, our secretaries of state since have been been normal, legit public servants.

  89. 89.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Just the charity Warren should demand trump cut a check to: Behind the viral fundraiser: meet the aid group reuniting families

    Raices, the Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services, has been around since 1986. The not-for-profit group attracted little notice beyond Texas until this year, when almost overnight it became a national focal point for opposition to the Trump administration’s zero tolerance immigration policy, the subject of a major Guardian investigation this week.

    A Facebook fundraiser for Raices started in June by a Californian couple had an initial goal of $1,500. It went viral, and within a couple of weeks generated more than $20m – three times the organisation’s annual budget.

  90. 90.

    Matt McIrvin

    @germy: This is exactly what I and others have been saying: People in states that went to all mail ballots early on keep touting them as a panacea, but they’re not–they’re only as good as the state’s commitment to democracy. In the hands of a state actively interested in rigging the vote they just give them another tool, because the ballot can’t be completely secret.

  93. 93.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Lorde concert boycott: New Zealanders fined by Israel raise thousands for Gaza

    Last week an Israeli court ruled Justine Sachs and Nadia Abu-Shanab of New Zealand must pay damages to Israeli teenagers Shoshana Steinbach, Ayelet Wertzel and Ahuva Frogel totalling more than NZ$18,000 ($11,700) for writing a letter urging Lorde to cancel her gig, which she did. The court found the two New Zealand women damaged the “artistic welfare” of the three Israeli teenagers, and perpetrated “damage to their good name as Israelis and Jews”.

    Sachs and Abu-Shanab said in the hours following the ruling they were inundated with offers of financial assistance from around the world, intended to help the two young women pay the fine. But Sachs and Abu-Shanab have said they have no intention of doing so, and have been advised by legal experts there is little chance of Israel having the recourse to force them, because they were not in Israel when they penned the open letter and did not participate in the court case in any way.

    Instead, the two women have launched a crowdfunding campaign to raise money for the Gaza Mental Health Foundation, and in just three days have already raised the money from more than 400 donors.

    “We will not be paying the court-ordered amount,” Sachs, who is Israeli, and Abu-Shanab, a Palestinian, said in a statement. “Instead, we would like to redirect the support extended to us back to Palestinians in need of mental health support.”

  94. 94.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    Reporters are asking Hillary about Monica and whether Bill should have resigned. I guess there’s not much real news to talk about right now.

    And even if that’s true — which I expect is the case — it doesn’t surprise me. Fecking journalism, how does it work?

    Where’s Villago when we need him?

  95. 95.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: Okay, she’s definitely running.

    It’s actually surprising to me that the test showed she had any Native American ancestry; that’s not the usual outcome in these kinds of stories.

  97. 97.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Matt McIrvin:

    because the ballot can’t be completely secret.

    Here in Misery, absentee ballots are secret. The ballot comes to the elections commission in two envelopes. The outer one has the all the voters info on the outside of it. If everything matches up the second envelope with zero voter info is passed on to the vote counters and they open it and process the ballot.

  98. 98.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    It’s incredible. They’re completely driven by Republican political operatives. Republicans wanted to talk about “civility” to cover for their fucking outrageous behavior, and they got it! We’;re having the “civility” discussion., led by them and on their terms.

    This isn’t about voters. If it was it would center on health care. But health care is a terrible issue for Republicans, so there won’t be any national coverage.

    Maybe Democrats are getting better at it. They’ve managed to cut through Donald Trump’s exclusive franchise on all political news in state news and in congressional districts. If you listen to debates a quarter of the fighting is over health care. So unlike 2016 there’s SOME issue coverage.

    In the governors races, would you know we’re having this giant battle on education? The GOP version versus the Dem version? We are! I think it’s the 2nd biggest issue in Ohio and the 1st in Wisconsin. No national coverage. At all. Because public education is a bad issue for the GOP, therefore national reporters don’t discuss it.

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    They don’t cover “politics” or “issues”. They cover the campaign industrial complex. They cover what political professionals want to talk about. It’s now TWICE removed. We get the political professionals and then we get coverage of the political professionals. It’s like double hearsay.

  100. 100.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @SFAW:

    TA: It’s probably a futile hope, but: I hope that, before I die, there is some semblance of a return to sanity of political discourse in the US. I’m relatively healthy, so I hope that gives me a chance at seeing it, but every day that the Party of Traitors rules, it moves us further from that goal.

    Unlikely think ponzi scheme. The believers in the scheme are go to latch on to anything that keeps the lie going. Warren is a truth teller your right on the No True Scotsman game they are playing on her.

  101. 101.

    glory b

    @Schlemazel: Pittsburgh has LOTS more deer than anyone might imagine. Oakland is home to Schenley Park, and they wander from the park often. Of course, few blocks from the park, there are major thoroughfares, I’m always surprised that more of them aren’t hit by cars, but we’ve all gotten used to each other.

    I live in a very urban, inner city neighborhood(cough), and we see lots of deer, groundhogs, and the like. One deer with twins frequents our backyard often. In fact, the dogs in the neighborhood don’t even bark when deer are around. Last winter, the small park across the train tracks from my house hosted five or six of them at a time.

    Makes those early a.m. walks with the dog very exciting!

  102. 102.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Kay: Why do we need political reporters at all if all they are going to do is analyze polls.
    MSM bots have somehow made Beto’s record haul a negative because he is behind in polls. Dave Weigel in Wash Post regurgitating Vichy Times take this morning.

  104. 104.

    chopper

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Coke vending machine emblazoned with the words “Kia ora, Mate”, translates into te reo as “Hello, Death”.

    they’re not wrong. finally some truth in advertising.

  106. 106.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Kay: It’s very similar to how on Sunday morning BEFORE any football games have been played you get like 4 hours of discussion of who’s fighting with whom in the locker room and _what are expected to be_ the “keys to the game.”

  107. 107.

    Kay

    Matthew Yglesias
    ‏Verified account
    @mattyglesias
    12h12 hours ago
    More
    Even Trump’s lies are getting boring and repetitive.

    They are. So maybe we could get some coverage of someone else? Anyone else. Any other candidate or issue, anywhere.

    They won’t even be able to tell when interest in listening to Donald Trump lie starts to wane, because there’s nothing else on offer. They can’t do a comparison because we only get one choice- we get Donald Trump. Every fucking day. A steady diet, spoon fed to us.

  109. 109.

    Kay

    The point of “getting the President on record” was so that the President could be caught in lies and held accountable.

    If that isn’t going to happen then flooding the public with his lies day after day is promoting state propaganda. 100%. They’re providing a forum to people who lie to make the Trump Administration look better than it is. That’s the only purpose of these interviews.

    There’s no point in catching him in a lie. Nothing happens except he gets the lie out. They may as well cover him talking, talking, talking all by himself. That’s why he’s doing the interview. He knows that.

  110. 110.

    Anne Laurie

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Okay, she’s definitely running.

    Yes she is… for re-election to her Senate seat! Right at this very moment! (And she’s got a pretty good & well-deserved lead, too.) I just put up a post with the YouTube clip.

    I still hope we Massholes can hang on to her as our own personal Senator, but she’s doing a real service distracting the Trumplodytes from attacking Democratic hopefuls who don’t have her resources. Or her gifts.

  111. 111.

    Kay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Because Democratic political consultants whined to them that they didn’t have enough money to spend, and they are somehow entitled to Beto’s haul. They’re covering political consultants. They’re not covering “politics”- they’re covering the campaign industry, which is the industry they’re all employed in. The NYTimes does nothing else. No debates, no candidate appearances- just coverage of political consultants.

  115. 115.

    Amir Khalid

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    “Kia ora” is clearly a Maori greeting and “mate” the English word, and the two were combined into a slogan by some advertising person who doesn’t speak Maori — and is thus unaware that “mate” is the Maori for death. Whether Coke itself or an ad company created the slogan, it should have been looked at by at least two Maori speakers before it went out.

  116. 116.

    SFAW

    @Kay:

    The NYTimes does nothing else. No debates, no candidate appearances- just coverage of political consultants.

    You forgot Poland their sporadic/intermittent “Teh Clintons are History’s Greatest Monsters” pieces!

  117. 117.

    Amir Khalid

    @Kay:
    Of course they talk only to consultants. Why waste time doing your own legwork and making sense of the data by yourself, when you can just ask the experts and write down what they say?

  118. 118.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Kay: That piece had one consultant on the record and he was quite happy for Beto but wished that some of the easily winnable races also had some more money. They are R enablers. They can take any news, even good news and give it an anti-D spin.
    Jonathan Martin’s wiki tells me that he worked for the NR, earlier in his career.
    They are R foot soldiers.

  119. 119.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud:

    Reporters are asking Hillary about Monica and whether Bill should have resigned. I guess there’s not much real news to talk about right now.

    I saw a blurb of that and thought it was simply fascinating. Here we are again, 20+ years later, after the entire nation litigated Big Willie’s wanderings and they are still demanding Hillary pay for it. And yet, the current FLOTUS sits down and says she never bothers her beautiful mind about *any* of her husband’s dalliances and *POOF* nobody gives a shit.

  120. 120.

    Corner Stone

    @Amir Khalid:

    Whether Coke itself or an ad company created the slogan, it should have been looked at by at least two Maori speakers before it went out.

    Personally I think it’s a great bit of marketing. How many millions of people are talking about Coke that otherwise would never have heard two words about this rebranding effort? IMO, this does no damage to Coke’s brand and gives them a chance to scuff their toes in the dirt, say “Aww shucks” and make some grand gesture moving forward.

  123. 123.

    Corner Stone

    @FlipYrWhig: I think Costa is fair to middling smart in that he tries to play it professional and straightlaced, unlike the unbearable smarmy smugness of Jonathan Swann (Axios), Jeremy Peters (NYT), or anyone at Politico. Weigel isn’t bad some of the time but he has been unable to shake off his glibertarian roots.

  124. 124.

    Corner Stone

    @Kay:

    My partner and I split up to save time

    “And that’s when I started to hear the ominously slow music start somewhere behind me…”

  125. 125.

    gene108

    @Corner Stone:

    And yet, the current FLOTUS sits down and says she never bothers her beautiful mind about *any* of her husband’s dalliances and *POOF* nobody gives a shit.

    That is because she is a good little political prop wife, who is there to look pretty on certain occasions.

    Unlike Hillary, who had the audacity to have a career independent of her husband’s political ambitions. And she has been taking grief for it, since 1992. Very unbecoming of a First Lady.

  126. 126.

    Kathleen

    @Baud: That feels like a half a** attempt at Hillary trolling by MSM. Though they love the Hillary Hate fallback, hacks that they are , it’s almost as if they’re getting bored with it. Time for them to invent some new Hillary Hate tropes.

  128. 128.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The outer envelope gives you all the information you need to suppress the ballot. You could check the person’s name against the rolls to see if she is a registered Democrat, for example. The actual secrecy of the ballot itself doesn’t matter.

  129. 129.

    Corner Stone

    @Schlemazel:

    I was talking to a couple of Assies at my conference yesterday

    And since this thread seems to be dying a slow death, allow me to say that this typo is a magnificent +1. For I, too, would enjoy speaking with a couple assies some day.

  132. 132.

    Emerald

    @SFAW: I wish I could live to see the day when journalism returned to the actual reporting of news, but I fear those days died with Walter Cronkite.

  133. 133.

    Corner Stone

    Fascinating segment just now on MSNBC Mitchell Reports. AM had an author on who explicitly described how the media fell for the Russian interference scam and caused Hillary to drop with certain segments of debate viewers. Then Andrea closes the segment by blaming Hillary for not releasing her Goldman Sachs speeches. It was a thing of beauty how she did not even acknowledge what the author told her about the media being gulled by Russia.

  134. 134.

    Groucho48

    Remember when Republicans refused to not count improperly made out mail in ballots during the Gore-Bush race, because most of them were military and favored Bush?

  135. 135.

    Emerald

    @gene108:

    Unlike Hillary, who had the audacity to have a career independent of her husband’s political ambitions. And she has been taking grief for it, since 1992. Very unbecoming of a First Lady

    Exactly the reason, and the ONLY reason, she is so hated. But it started way before 1992, in Arkansas. She wasn’t the model first lady there either. Refused even to change her name from “Rodham” to “Clinton” for awhile. Insisted on continuing to work as a lawyer. A lawyer! That’s when the “Arkansas Project” was begun.

  136. 136.

    Emerald

    @Corner Stone: During the campaign I was sure that Andrea Mitchell would die breathing out the word “emails,” as with “Rosebud.”

    I won’t give the woman 5 minutes of my time. I don’t watch.

  138. 138.

    WaterGirl

    Here’s what I wrote in the next thread:

    BooMan has come out with a new post about the Dems having peaked too early and says 538 says we have only a 1 in 5 chance of winning the senate. His title “Perhaps the Dem’s Wave Crested Too Early” is no different than “Has the Dem’s Wave Crested Too Early?” (not linking because I am not encouraging anyone to read the post)

    How I long for the days when I didn’t feel like BooMan’s role was to provide discouragement.

    I think it’s the spin on the facts that bothers me the most. Not: hey, we are down to a 1 in 5 chance… we need to work our butts off to make this happen. Instead it’s: not looking good. Not helpful.

  139. 139.

    Royston Vasey

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    In fairness, they probably are mixing up two commonly used Kiwi terms, one in Māori (Kia Ora) and one in English (Mate).
    Using this mixed term is common.
    The problem lies because “mate” is also a Māori word (as used in the Haka), sounds like “ma-teh”.

    The use of “mate” in Māori can have different meanings based on its context.
    For example, “mate Pākehā” means foreign illness.

    RV in NZ

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