The Woodward book for the Trump era isn’t Fear; it’s “Final Days” from 1976. I just finished it and it has a ton of lessons for the present day, especially for WH reporters on the pitfalls of access journalism when covering a criminal conspiracy. THREAD 1/ https://t.co/SFp2FjAiaV https://t.co/nptOo0DSy8
— Max Bergmann (@maxbergmann) October 21, 2018
This is b/c WH staff at the end weren’t involved in the Watergate conspiracy so they didn’t actually know what happened. Nor were they interested in knowing. 3/
— Max Bergmann (@maxbergmann) October 21, 2018
In the WH staffers defense, they were their to serve the POTUS! Just so happened the POTUS was a crook! But they were all working really hard to protect the POTUS.
The impact of this delayed Nixon’s fall; it kept the GOP on-side, as well as much of the public. 5/
— Max Bergmann (@maxbergmann) October 21, 2018
In the case of Watergate, the WH insiders were either:
1. Totally ignorant of what happened.
2. Totally suspected Nixon did it, but didn’t actually “know” or want to know.The only one in the WH that knew what happened was … Nixon. 7/
— Max Bergmann (@maxbergmann) October 21, 2018
In turn, they’re working hard to get this go away. Stonewalling the investigation, buying time, running political attacks vs. Mueller/Rosenstein in coord w/ members of the House. They’re just “serving” the POTUS. But really they’re complicit in defacto obstruction of justice. 13/
— Max Bergmann (@maxbergmann) October 21, 2018
Lesson here is that few thought Nixon was going down. So everyone stuck w/ him. When the equation changed, the GOP broke vs. him. If Republicans break vs. Trump, it will happen suddenly and abruptly. END
— Max Bergmann (@maxbergmann) October 21, 2018
Nicole
Funny- I just started watching a series on Netflix “The 1970s” (might have originally been CNN or some other channel that did it; I don’t know. Tom Hanks is one of the producers) and Episode 2 is Watergate and the episode said the same thing- that the media totally bought the WH line that there was nothing to the story and that the majority of Nixon’s staff had no idea what was going on.
Also, Pat Buchanan is still a water-carrier for Nixon.
bluehill
I don’t know that much about the details of Watergate, so this may be incorrect. It seems like the big difference between now and then is the scale of the corruption. It’s not just Trump, but most of his cabinet, his daughter and son-in-law, many in the house and senate and now the supreme court are alleged to be or shown to be doing something corrupt/illegal besides Russia collusion. They are all in and so I think will fight harder (i.e. violate more norms, ethics, laws) to stay in power and avoid being caught.
Mike in NC
Republicans will never turn on Trump. They would sooner allow him to toss out the Constitution.
Nicole
@bluehill: He’s not saying it “will” happen. He’s saying IF it does happen, it’ll happen fast.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Nicole: It was when Senator Goldwater* and House Minority Leader Rhodes(both from AZ) went to the White House on August 7, 1974 that Nixon knew the jig was up, he announced his resignation the next day.
*There was also a Representative Goldwater(my Congresscritter) who was the Senator’s son.
trollhattan
@Nicole:
Seems a fair conclusion. Those surrounding Trump aren’t there for the laffs and sparkling conversation, they’re there for self-enrichment and the draw of untethered power. Once they sense Trump is crashing they’ll crush one another heading for the exits, including his vile, bloodless family.
Eljai
I read that Max Bergmann thread on Sunday. Really fascinating. I was beginning to think that Watergate was not a useful comparison anymore because it seems like republicans have gotten so much worse when it comes to lying, obfuscating and obstructing justice. But this analysis shows that they were enablers back then too and they only appeared to get on the impeachment train once the stain of Nixon’s crimes became apparent. Gives me an odd sense of hope.
geg6
@Nicole:
And we don’t need them all to turn. Just enough. Maybe this sounds Pollyanna-ish but I think some amount of GOPers might want to save their own skins and/or have a smidgen of love of country left. Probably not, but I’m going to keep hoping.
schrodingers_cat
OT Padmini is marrying Aladdin Khilji (Deepika Padukone is marrying Ranveer Singh). They played antagonists in last year’s Padmaavat.
Watch them in Ramleela
Nicole
@geg6: Yeah, we’ll see, but I find the Watergate comparisons reassuring because it reminds me A) it took a long time and B) the Republicans fell in line, until they didn’t.
The one thing you can say for today’s GOP, they ain’t the brave sort, and they’d sell their own children if they thought they needed to to save their own skins.
tokyokie
What gets me is that aside from Murkowski, no GOP senator voted against Kavanaugh. Any one of them who would have done so would have been lavished with the sort of praise McCain would receive for his occasional vote against mainstream GOP interests and become the party’s next star. It’s not so much that they all are utterly without courage (although they are), it’s that they are all utterly without imagination as well.
Schlemazel
@geg6:
November 6th.
If it looks like Rapeublicans have lost their grip & stand to lose the Senate a few will find their spines. If they hold the house & gain in the Senate they will be a concrete wall
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
Is it just me or is this a ratfuck?
I saw an ad for it on this site. They call themselves Me Too Ohio. It exclusively attacks Sherrod Brown and uses this wording:
That bolded part is pretty damning. Liberals by and large are the ones who care about domestic violence and what MeToo’s been advocating. No liberal would word it like that. “Vilified” is a particularly charged word.
randy khan
@Nicole:
I’ve been saying this for more than a year – we don’t know if there is a breaking point for the Republicans, but if there is one, they will pretty much abandon Trump all at once. Until then, there will be almost no profiles in courage.
And the corollary is that it won’t happen unless there’s a drastic turn against Trump in public opinion. The smoking gun tape really moved the polls, and very quickly. The signs were unmistakable, and the rats got off the sinking ship in the hope that they wouldn’t drown. (It didn’t work out too well for them, as it turned out.)
SiubhanDuinne
Since it’s an open thread and all:
Maybe this is of interest only to my fellow Georgia residents, but I’m hoping one of the front-pagers will put up a good link to the Stacey Abrams-Brian Kemp gubernatorial debate, which begins at 7:00 pm EDT. Yes, I could (and will, if necessary) watch it on the Atlanta Press Club FB streamy thing, but I tried that for a few of the Congressional debates this afternoon and it kept going dead. Hope C-SPAN or someone can provide a more stable feed.
ETA: Alas, I guess it’s going right up against Game 1 of the World Series. Well, Go Sox and Go Stacey!
Tracy Ratcliff
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Sherrod Brown’s ex-wife refutes claims of domestic abuse
https://www.cantonrep.com/news/20180913/sherrod-browns-ex-wife-refutes-claims-of-domestic-abuse
Larke Recchie, the ex-wife, campaigned for Brown in 2006 and 2012.
Brachiator
@Mike in NC:
Trump never read the Constitution, doesn’t understand it, and does not see himself as being bound by it. In sticking by Trump, the Republicans have, in effect, turned on the country. There is no way back for them.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Nicole: A commenter on this here blog has said the same thing over and over agian; he also says ‘fuckem’ alot.
Anne Laurie
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Hey, what does The Google say when you type did sherrod brown abuse his ex-wife... ?
A whole bunch of recent entries like this:
WaterGirl
OT. My previous state senator (Republican) who has since left office sent me email as part of his list for who knows what. I wrote back and said “Please take me off your list immediately.”
He replied, very quickly:
My reply to him:
Nice to be able to say that directly to a Republican!
randy khan
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Brown’s ex-wife says there’s no there there. And it’s worth noting that she held a fundraiser for Brown in this cycle.
Nope.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Schlemazel: If they lose the House and keep or make small gains in the Senate, a few will get wobbley. They know this was a good election calendar for them.
Gelfling 545
According to TPM “Former White House lawyer Ty Cobb said Monday that he does not consider the Russia investigation a “witch hunt,” and also thinks of special counsel Robert Mueller as an “American hero.”
I wonder what, if anything, that signifies.
germy
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ty-cobb-mueller-probe_us_5bcf5123e4b0d38b587cceec
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SiubhanDuinne: God wears Dodger Blue.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Tracy Ratcliff: @Anne Laurie:
I actually found this while researching after I posted that:
Dark money website revives allegations from Sherrod Brown’s 1980s-era divorce (Plain Dealer)
So, yeah. Ratfuck. His ex-wife, who’s a supporter, also says it’s all bullshit.
WaterGirl
@Gelfling 545: Sounds to me like maybe he is trying to salvage a bit of his reputation.
Baud
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Sounds like no one trademarked MeToo.
Ohio Mom
@Anne Laurie: People get pissy when they are going through a divorce, the Browns were not immune to that. But in the end, they clearly had the best kind of divorce.
Amends were made and accepted, and everyone moved on, all on good terms.
That didn’t happen with Kavanaugh. There weren’t even the vaguest of apologies made. But this is the sort of distinction that is lost on Republicans.
SiubhanDuinne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I knew there was a reason why I was divinely inspired to be an atheist!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@SiubhanDuinne: Now you just have to ask yourself; do you support the Blue team or the Red team?
japa21
@?BillinGlendaleCA: As I mentioned the last time you said that, it is possible you are correct, specially considering how lucky they are to be in the WS. It also makes me question God’s sanity.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@japa21: LA looks nice in blue: https://flic.kr/p/CCBzDC. That was taken the night before the first game of the Series last year.
Here’s a nice LA sunset(last night): https://flic.kr/p/29AfM8A
eemom
@tokyokie:
You mean his ONE vote against mainstream GOP interests.
Manyakitty
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: I read … elsewhere (can’t remember where, dammit!) that it’s bullshit. Dude has nothing left, so this is where he decided to go.
Kathleen
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: I heard about this awhile back. What I find interesting is that Brown has been around a long time, first as a state official, then a congressman, now a senator. I would have thought this would have surfaced a long time ago. This item from Cleveland Plain Dealer clarified this for me.
https://www.cleveland.com/darcy/index.ssf/2018/10/realing_renacci_tries_to_kavan.html
ETA I see Anne Laurie beat me!
gene108
@randy khan:
Huh?
All of Nixon’s flunkies landed on their feet, as far as I know.
Rumsfeld was Sec of Def for Ford and Bush, Jr. Cheney did well. Bork, even though he didn’t get on the SCOTUS, was Solicitor General and was on the DC Circuit court of appeals, and had a long career as a law school professor and consultant, Buchanan has had a lucrative career in the media…the list goes on and on about these guys failing upwards…hell, G. Gordon Liddy, even after going to jail, had a long running radio show…
Republicans, the media, and a good chunk of the public want Republicans to fail upwards. Look at Ken Starr’s crew like Kavanaugh and Rosenstein not having their careers ruined by what they did in the 1990’s.
SiubhanDuinne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Politics ain’t beanbag ain’t baseball.
Ken Shabby
In either 2020 or 2024………
Not really. GOP has known the entire time this slob is a criminal. He entered office and took oath as a criminal. They knew it, then. They know it every day, now, as it worsens. They know precisely what they’re witnessing and, as such, utterly complicit.
I was in my 20s, then. This is not remotely like that. In any way at all. Nixon was a bizarre aberration, headed for the ash heap of history and, quick. This awful person gets stronger within his and their base with every passing episode. Nixon laid the groundwork for these horrors but, the GOP is finally arriving where they set course for, back then.
Or, as dickchainy would say, these are the spoils and they’re earned.
“Let’s return, to those halcyon days where everybody was blissfully ignorant and not at all complicit except Dickless. “
Bullshit at face value, to anyone paying attention. The entire time.
um – no. They were all in it, up to their flat ass. And, it was mild by comparison.
Nixon would LOVE today’s GOP.
“What took you guys so long?”
With shout out to John Dean, from whom all blessings flow.
Steeplejack
Talk about a Freudian slip—Jared Kushner on the Khashoggi situation:
Ken Shabby
@gene108:
Yes. Just so.
Ken Shabby
@Gelfling 545:
No Anything. Speaks for itself.
Ken Shabby
In short, Nixon could only WISH he had a GOP and media this.fucked.up.
He didn’t. Trump does.
Fear and Loathing in The Confederate States of America, world without end, ah-men.
“Nixon was queer, and in the worst way, He had to screw his pants on every morning”
What does that make Rump? And, the Grand Old Pedofiles?
JGabriel
gene108:
As per Wikipedia:
The Wikipedia link takes you to a list of about 20 of the 48 people found guilty (if you want a quick summarty). Most of them were sentenced to jail time.
Uncle Cosmo
@?BillinGlendaleCA: When efgoldman squawks, jackals listen. /obscure
Ken Shabby
@JGabriel:
Except
Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Satan and, Death to Smoochy.
Second verse, same as the first!
One group has to actively WANT it, to plan so thoroughly, execute so well and end up Patruts, Bible Botherers and molestors.
“We’re NATIONWIDE”
hilts
@Steeplejack:
Jared Kushner will forever have his head stuck up his ass.
@SiubhanDuinne Thankfully, C-SPAN archives all these debates. C-SPAN rocks and let’s go Red Sox.
low-tech cyclist
Max has a lousy memory. The ‘tapes [that] broke the floodgates’ that he’s referring to are the ‘smoking gun’ tapes of June 23, 1972: Nixon resigned just a few days after they became public.
But BEFORE anyone besides Nixon knew what was in them, 7 of the 17 Republican members of the House Judiciary Committee had voted to impeach Nixon. And it was already clear that Nixon’s surviving the Senate trial was going to be iffy.
Not to mention, even the previous fall, Richardson and Ruckelshaus had resigned rather than fire Archie Cox.
Sure, most Republicans stood foursquare behind the Trickster, but there was nowhere close to the near-unanimity of GOP support for Nixon that Trump gets.
cwmoss
@Steeplejack: Kudos for mentioning Freud! But I think this one’s a gaffe, rather than a Freudian slip, in that he inadvertently spoke the truth.
Gwangung
Yup. Don’t think the Republicans will break. They’ve selected for power-hungry and selfish over statesman and country-minded. It’s “Power over Nation” down the line.
jc
This is why it’s better to make an election system that *prevents* someone like Trump from being able to cheat his way into office — because once someone that rotten gets their hands on that power, they become like a disease-bearing tick that just keeps poisoning the body politic and it’s damn near impossible to get rid of them. And then the GOP-controlled Congress gets infected and like zombies they start helping in the destruction of norms and rules that were put in place over decades to prevent the trashing of the government itself.
Wallis Lane
I don’t put any stock into the Watergate comparisons, and no optimism that Republicans would ever break en masse. This is a different planet altogether. Nixon did not have the equivalent of a Kim Jung Un-style State Propaganda Network behind him, blasting obfuscation 24/7 to the red states. If Nixon had Fox News, no impeachment, that simple; every lie, every damning fact, even recorded utterances would be hand-waved away, called fake news or tactics by sore-loser Democrats, and all Republican corruption would be projected back to the Dem side of the aisle. Max forgets that back in 1974, even the right-wingers (voters and office-holders) were in basic agreement that facts were facts, and while they would grouse about the “liberal” network news, they wouldn’t completely deny a “smoking gun” if the vast majority of the media confirmed it as such. Now, the GOP pols play only to Fox News, their voters only accept Fox news approved output, that’s where they all get their marching orders, and there is nowhere near the diversity of thought among the GOP as there was in 1974. As long as Fox and Sinclair and their ilk support Trump, which will be forever, there will be no impeachment, and no lessening of senatorial support.
James E Powell
@Gwangung:
Republicans will never break because there is nothing to be gained from doing so. No matter what Trump has done or will do, Republican voters will still require all Republicans to back him. Remember, they thought Boehner and Cantor were RINOs who were working with Obama.
Villago Delenda Est
Booby is a hack. Plain and simple. A fucking stenographer. Lets his sources get away with murder.
OGLiberal
@low-tech cyclist: With Nixon, you had Southern Dems who opposed because any Dem was better than a Republican and non-crazy GOPers, many from the North and West, who weren’t down with that shit. Today’s GOP is wing-nuts from blue states who are crazier than ever and a bunch of folks who were/would have been Southern Dems back in Nixon’s day. They won’t do the honorable thing, ever. As honorable as they will get is retiring, a la Flake. A lot of good that does.
And then there is Collins. She must be bringing home the bacon big time. Which kind of baffles me because I don’t think a no vote on Kavanaugh would have hurt her much at home since Mainers seem to just check her box, regardless. But I’m not from Maine so have no idea how her “I’m concerned but will almost always vote against those concerns” schtick plays there.
Gretchen
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: it’s a ratf*ck. His ex-wife cut an ad condemning the accusation. She said many divorces are unpleasant, including theirs, and she stands behind him. She held a fundraiser for his campaign in her home shortly before this came out, and released a charming photo of herself, Sherrod, and their new spouses with all their grandchildren. MeToo lets women speak for themselves, and what she says is this is bullsh*t.