Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

This blog will pay for itself.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Let’s finish the job.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

You cannot shame the shameless.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

White supremacy is terrorism.

Consistently wrong since 2002

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Trump Is an Awful Person, Part Eleventy Kajillion

Trump Is an Awful Person, Part Eleventy Kajillion

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Even if everyone who writes for this blog took up chronicling each outrageous lie and disgraceful comment uttered by Donald Trump as a full-time job, we’d miss things. According the The Post’s fact-checking team, Trump is closing in on 6,500 lies since taking office. And those are just the lies he’s told in public.

It’s a grim topic, how terrible the POTUS is. It’s cringe-inducing and crazy-making. But some comments are so outrageous that they should be noted, even if noting them is like pointing out a lump of coal in Newcastle. Here’s one:

Cole has a tweet pinned on his Twitter account:

Yeah, what he said. Imagine for just one second that President Obama, Hillary Clinton or literally any other president or prominent official of either party had said something that vile — had whined that a neo-Nazi’s mass murder spree and a lunatic supporter’s failed bombing campaign interrupted his party’s political momentum.

Even as the words left Trump’s asshole of a mouth, he must’ve realized on some level how awful it sounded because he hastily added a covering lie: “We don’t care about momentum, but…” Too little, too late. After visiting the site of the massacre, Trump tweeted not about the lives lost or the grief of those left behind but instead about how respectfully he and the Third Lady were treated.

We knew Trump was a horrible person. Nothing that underscores his awfulness is really surprising or newsworthy. But some things are so indecent that they deserve attention anyway, and this incident is one of those things, IMO.

It’s also noteworthy that the inspiration for the atrocity at the synagogue and the attempted bombings was the lies Trump peddles about immigrants and Democrats, and that he has continued to utter those lies nonstop, despite the horrendous consequences. Because he thinks it helps his cause. Nothing else matters to the vile shit-stain except that.

You know that. I know that. But sometimes it needs to be said anyway.

Reader Interactions

173Comments

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    You know that. I know that.

    Anytime I see something like this now it automatically transforms into Trump speech. “The Caravan is coming to kill you, and you understand that.”

  8. 8.

    Corner Stone

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Anything he says about the caravan or the verbal tic he has of confirming that everyone already agrees with him? You could say both and I would understand that.

  9. 9.

    laura

    That so many of our fellow Americans, our ‘friends’, family, co workers actually support this, delight in this, celebrate the degradation of our democracy, our Constitution, the very ideal of America as a force for good in the world is what breaks my heart.

  10. 10.

    tobie

    Everything’s always about Trump, and yes it’s shocking to see that from a President after a massacre caused in large part by his own lies and conspiracy theories on immigration.

  11. 11.

    Barbara

    Pittsburgh has actually had prior mass shootings that could be classified as hate crimes. Women were targeted at a fitness center, with many wounded and four dead. Another shooter aimed his wrath at “foreigners” and “immigrants,” shooting seven and killing four, including a Jewish woman living next door to his parents, who were themselves immigrants.

    What’s so galling about the Tree of Life shooting is that the shooter is acting on the same obsession that is being stoked every day by the President of the United States i.e., that we are being invaded by a genocidal mob of migrants. Whether Trump is personally anti-Semitic, he is spouting fears and conspiracy theories that have long been used by anti-Semites to demonize Jews.

    And yes, I bet they are pissed six ways to Sunday that someone acted on those fears in ways that displaced Trump’s narrative.

  12. 12.

    bluehill

    This weekend is going to be lit. Repubs are going to say anything and do almost anything to try to shake up the election.

    Also think this tweet from Nate Silver is a reason why.

    If I had to point to an area where the conventional wisdom is wrongest this year, it’s in underestimating how wide the range of outcomes is in the House. Maybe 30-40 D pickups is the most likely range, but it doesn’t take much to send us to 19 (R’s keep House), or, say, 57.

    Seems like there are a lot of close races that could swing R with a little fearmongering, voter suppression and help from Putin.

  13. 13.

    donnah

    I can’t believe that nobody seems to be shocked anymore. Every time he utters another lie or says something so horrible that we actually recoil at it, it should be a headline. He should be held accountable, made to own it. But he never has to. Because it’s the next thing and the next horrible thing and we can’t keep track.

    Obama had to be so careful not to be too angry, Hillary was reminded over and over about “deplorables”, decent people in politics were driven out by words they had used. But Trump has a free pass, always has. He’s a liar, racist, misogynist…nobody cares.

    We have to win the midterms. We have to make our Congresspeople and our Senators understand that we are fed up with Trump and his complicit party. And as soon as we can.

  14. 14.

    Ian G.

    I often fantasize about the day he either resigns, is impeached, or dies in office. My plan is to buy a large American flag and go dance around in front of Newscorp HQ up on 6th Ave. I imagine I won’t be the only one celebrating there. I would hope to make it into a segment on Fox & Friends about “leftist incivility”.

  17. 17.

    germy

    The Burkman-Wohl fiasco was/is amusing as far as it goes, but it’s also disturbing.

    We can afford to be amused by BW’s almost incredible ineptitude, because it guaranteed that their scheme to frame Robert Mueller for imaginary sex crimes would fail. What’s not amusing is the total cultural depravity from which such a scheme springs.

    That depravity in turn appears to reflect a deep nihilism: a belief that because nothing matters, anything goes. That belief is Donald Trump’s credo, and also a key to understanding his success. We live in what the French writer Jean Baudrillard identified as a fundamentally nihilistic age.

    Paul Campos
    http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/11/just-shot-away

  18. 18.

    sherparick

    Sadly, 40% of the country, and apparently close to 70% of non-college graduate white men think he is the perfect instrument to represent their interests and passions. Which says something sad but our country (as Roy Edroso twits in response to Jennifer Rubin’s twit that this election is for the “soul of the country,” – “Then, we are fucked”). This country is pretty good about “forgetting” and wants Trump calls forth goes very deep into this country’s DNA. See https://twitter.com/cjcmichel/status/1058185720794353664

    I will start following Casey Micheal now that I have found him.

  23. 23.

    Gvg

    @Barbara: I am not sure that Trump or many around understood ahead of time that such a shooting and bombing would actually stop their momentum. They aren’t faking their racism. This is who they are. They barely remember to keep some direct deniability.

  25. 25.

    TenguPhule

    Because he thinks it helps his cause. Nothing else matters to the vile shit-stain except that.

    But some folks still think we can and should still negotiate with this Nazi.

    No, we can’t. We really really can’t. Compromise is fucking dead. Resistance is all the remains.

  26. 26.

    Brachiator

    According the The Post’s fact-checking team, Trump is closing in on 6,500 lies since taking office. And those are just the lies he’s told in public.

    The Toronto Star also catalogs Trump’s lies, and recently included a graph that demonstrates how the number of lies he tells has escalated over time. The Velocity of his Mendacity is increasing so fast that soon you will need a supercomputer to keep up with it.

    One of his most outrageous howlers:

    “We also passed Veterans Choice, giving our veterans the right to see a private doctor instead of waiting online for 12 days, for 24 days, for 38 days. We have our great veterans — we’re doing a great job with our veterans — we have our — but this was one of the most important things — because they’d be waiting in line for sometimes months if you can believe it. … I got a great idea. It’s the greatest idea I think I’ve ever had. We’re going to have them go to a private doctor instead of waiting on line. Sir, we’ve been trying to get that passed for 40 years. Oh, you’ve heard about it before? Everybody heard — they couldn’t get it passed. But we’re good at getting things passed. We got it passed.”
    Source: Campaign rally in Richmond, Kentucky

    in fact: The Veterans Choice health program was created in 2014 under Obama. The law Trump signed merely modified the program.

    This is doubly despicable. Half the time Trump tries to erase Obama’s legacy by dismantling it. The rest of the time, Trump tries to erase Obama’s legacy by taking credit for it.

  30. 30.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @JPL: Look here upon th’s picture, and on this,
    The counterfeit presentment of two [presidents].
    See what a grace was seated on this brow;
    Hyperion’s curls; the front of Jove himself;
    An eye like Mars, to threaten and command;
    A station like the herald Mercury
    New lighted on a heaven-kissing hill:
    A combination and a form indeed
    Where every god did seem to set his seal
    To give the world assurance of a man.
    This was your [president]. Look you now what follows.
    …, like a mildew’d ear
    …Have you eyes?

    –Hamlet

  32. 32.

    bemused

    Today trump said to reporters, “You are creating violence by your questions”.
    He’s an ignorant and an idiot but he knows exactly what he is doing ramping up the rage and racism in maga base.

  33. 33.

    geg6

    @Barbara:

    Yes, this. Baumhammer wasn’t acting out a fantasy ginned up by our president. MRA LA Fitness killer was just your average MRA type asshole who hated women and, again, not hyped up by talk from a politician. One of the most infuriating things the Shitgibbon said last night was how he’s the one who knows what women want, which is, apparently, security against poor, displaced women and children fleeing violence and crushing poverty. Fucker has no clue what women want. No. Fucking. Clue.

    I’m just glad I’m going to miss any Friday evening news dumps tonight. Seeing the 5:45 show of “Bohemian Rhapsody” and then dinner with my sister. I’m going to wallow in the gloriousness of Freddie Mercury and forget this asshole even exists for a couple hours.

  34. 34.

    MattF

    @Brachiator: And there’s the claim that Republicans want to protect people with pre-existing conditions and Democrats are against that. Trump will say anything. Anything.

  37. 37.

    TenguPhule

    @donnah:

    I can’t believe that nobody seems to be shocked anymore. Every time he utters another lie or says something so horrible that we actually recoil at it, it should be a headline. He should be held accountable, made to own it. But he never has to. Because it’s the next thing and the next horrible thing and we can’t keep track.

    Two years of screaming that he’s a chicken dressed up as a Nazi and all the fine people still assure us that Mr. Donald “Boo” Trump is really just a fine misunderstood individual.

  38. 38.

    Corner Stone

    @JPL: He’s been delivering a stemwinder in FL. Not using Trump’s name (that I heard) but directly calling out all the lies and antics.

  39. 39.

    JPL

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: @germy: Mediate had a clip of Fox and Friends talking about the other cable channels, and wondering why they didn’t just report what trump wanted. Then they would not be called enemy of the people.
    easy.

  40. 40.

    TenguPhule

    @JPL:

    Trump responds, “No, no, you know what? You’re creating violence by your question. You are creating. You.”

    “Not the puppet not the puppet you’re the puppet!”

  43. 43.

    chris

    @germy: Second generation Fox viewers. Reposting this thread from this morning.

    One thing we're seeing now is the 2nd generation of Fox conservatives. The first grew up in a normal world & was pulled into Fox world (like my dad). But they *remember* the normal world & can still pass in it; they know what tone & keywords to use. However …— David Roberts (@drvox) 30 October 2018

  44. 44.

    jl

    @sherparick: I read some survey evidence that what put Trump over the top in 2016 was white male fundamentalist evangelicals. Once you take that out, Trump does not even do that well with non-college white men. Unless their minds are warped by the bizarre (and by traditional mainstream Christian standard, arguably heretical) theological fantasies, even white men without college degrees had a sense that Trump was peddling BS.

    After taking out fundamentalist Christians lower educated white men still prefer Trump more than any other group, but he is not winning among them by huge margins.

    I think a mistake, electorally, to think that there huge support for Trump in any demographic group, apart from a very special ideologically reactionary and religious group that really goes for his lies. Especially in a 50 percent plus one vote system where peeling off even a few percentage points in support for the crazy and bad can make all the difference.

    I’ll have to go see if I can find the article. So, no link for right now.

  45. 45.

    The Dangerman

    @TenguPhule:

    I’m sure there’s still room in there for at least half a dozen more.

    With some violence at the polls damn near assured, I’d say we’d be lucky with only 6 other events. Hell, that could be in Georgia alone after today.

  46. 46.

    sherparick

    @laura: It is because they really, really, really love white supremacy to their very bones. Most of them will tolerate non-whites, as long as the non-whites accept that they are second class citizens and junior partners in the “American Dream.” (Also, like the Irish, Italians, Greeks, and other former “non”white groups are incorporated into the Borg after a couple of generations, maintaining White demographic dominance. And becoming “White” is something that creates a common interest in maintaining the racial hierarchy that has ruled American life for near 400 years, something that is now happening with 2d and 3d generation Hispanics (especially those with more European and less Indian and African features), which explains why Trump can get 30to 35% of the Hispanic vote – only Blacks and apparently Jews never completely move out from the “Other” label.) It is this “toleration,” despite believing and not questioning the hundreds of negative and false racial tropes and stereotypes floating around in their heads, that is behind their assertions that they are not “racists” and their resentment at challenges to that comfortable belief which explains the fury at Black NFL players kneeling about unarmed blacks being shot by police. Trump embodies this belief and has served this interest.

  48. 48.

    bemused

    @Corner Stone:

    Lots of cheering. A much different kind of cheering than at fathead rallies. The cheers for Obama just sounded like excited, hopeful people. The crowd noise at the fathead’s rallies have always really bothered right me from the beginning, makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

  49. 49.

    bluehill

    @MattF: Yeah, that’s why I think repubs are going all out to rally the racists to the polls. If 2016 was about populism tinged with racism, 2018 is all about race.

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    @Ian G.: Speaking of Fox & Fiends, I don’t think we covered this here (so many outrages, so little time), but what a perfect demonstration of their role as regime propaganda organ:

    If Ainsley Earhardt were a marriage counselor, she’d tell an abused wife to just stop mouthing off to her husband, burning his dinner, etc., and he wouldn’t have to beat her.

  52. 52.

    Ruckus

    @jl:
    Well the one confirmed asshole trumper that I know certainly falls into the lower educated white men category although I’d bet he’s anything but an evangelical. Of course he has two illegitimate children and is an ex meth addict…….. so there’s no telling.

  53. 53.

    Corner Stone

    @JPL:

    “No, no, you know what? You’re creating violence by your question. You are creating. You.”

    Reminds me of the Sean Spicey SNL skit where Melissa McCarthy starts yelling, “Your words! They’re your words and when I say them I’m just quoting you!”

  54. 54.

    TenguPhule

    GOP’s claim of health-care protection flies in the face of reality

    Not even the Washington Post can bring themselves to outright state that Republicans are lying liars who lie.

  56. 56.

    Barbara

    @bluehill: Fear mongering has to marinate. It’s Friday, itself a slow news day, and so many people just zone out altogether over the weekend. I am not saying Republicans couldn’t retain the House, but I doubt it will be the result of something Donald Trump says between now and Tuesday.

  57. 57.

    Betty Cracker

    @A Ghost To Most: True, but he’s the symptom that can kill the patient all by itself, regardless of the disease’s advances on other fronts. Like, oh, say, organ failure, he’s the symptom that must be addressed before there’s a chance of saving the patient in a long-term sense.

  58. 58.

    TenguPhule

    @Betty Cracker:

    Ainsley Earhardt sympathetically says Trump is telling the press that if they don’t want to be called the ‘enemy of the people,’ they just have to report on stories the way Trump wants them to.

    I’m so old I remember when the mainstream media was outraged over President Obama rejecting FOX news as a legitimate media outlet.

  60. 60.

    A Ghost To Most

    @TenguPhule:
    He’s not the source; he’s a opportunistic parasitic infection taking advantage of a weakened host. If he died tomorrow, the 27% would still be there.

  61. 61.

    Barbara

    @germy: Yeah, I don’t think it’s amusing at all. I think it is predatory except that the would be predators in this case are losers.

  63. 63.

    jl

    @Betty Cracker: Worse than that, Trump is the kind of abusive person who would beat you anyway, if that is what he needs to do in order to get through the next few minutes. Even if you acted submissively and took, if beating you was what Trump needed, he would just say that ‘you didn’t do it right’ whatever you did, and use that as an excuse.

    Trump is a ghastly person. Really among the worst kind of people you can deal with in life. Even among abusive people he is extra strength bad news.

    Also, the clip shows what a sick joke Fox and Friends is. I saw a clip where the two guy doofuses peeped out a mild half-baked murmur against Trump calling the press the enemy of the people, and now they had to walk even that back. Pathetic.

  64. 64.

    tobie

    Obama just gave a moving speech which ended with a statement of our values and of the long arc of history and why we need to vote and to be involved in the political process if we want our voices to be heard and our government to reflect our principles. It was a great antidote to the poison coming from Pennsylvania Avenue. If you want a reminder of our better angels, listen to the speech online.

    ETA: It was a campaign speech for Gillum, Nelson and the whole Democratic slate in Florida.

  66. 66.

    TenguPhule

    @Betty Cracker:

    . Like, oh, say, organ failure, he’s the symptom that must be addressed before there’s a chance of saving the patient in a long-term sense.

    So we need a political organs transplant? Great, can we borrow Canada’s for a little while?

  67. 67.

    MazeDancer

    Having give modestly to some BJ Funds, and not choosing one or two candidates, I am now deleting emails from a somewhat insane onslaught of truly worthy candidates begging for dough. Not even reading them.

    First, I felt cruel. Now, I am just reminding myself I have exceeded my donation budget. And then some. And can’t do it.

    Thinking of it as “Boundary Therapy”. Every deletion is a reminder you can’t take care of everyone. And you have to take care of yourself.

  68. 68.

    TenguPhule

    @Ruckus:

    Is there anyone left in the republican party that isn’t an out and out racist?

    No.

    This has been another edition of SATSQ.

  69. 69.

    Yutsano

    @chris: I’ll have to catch it later. Can’t look at Twitter on the work computer. But that sounds like something else that needs to be contended with. Ugh.

  71. 71.

    TenguPhule

    @A Ghost To Most:

    He’s not the source; he’s a opportunistic parasitic infection taking advantage of a weakened host. If he died tomorrow, the 27% would still be there.

    Didn’t mean to suggest that he was. We have 40 million dangerous deplorables that rightfully belong in forced labor camps at best.

  73. 73.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Betty Cracker: to wit:

    Daniel Dale @ ddale8
    Trumpification: Marsha Blackburn is running an ad claiming there are Middle Easterners in the migrant caravan. Ted Cruz is suggesting that Beto O’Rourke’s campaign might have paid the migrants. Leah Vukmir’s camp is calling Elizabeth Warren “Pocahontas.”

    he really does give them permission to let the racist bullshit flag fly, though Blackburn probably would have gotten here if Charlie Baker or Eisenhowere were in the White House.

    Cruz just looks stupid and desperate. I hope that’s the sign of some internal bleeding in the internal polls

  74. 74.

    MattF

    @Ruckus: To take that question seriously about candidates I’m familiar with– I’d say that Larry Hogan, the R candidate for governor in MD, is not racist. I’m not voting for him (I’m a Democrat, d’oh) but Hogan is probably going to win.

  75. 75.

    TenguPhule

    @Raven:

    Threats from the right inspire a new left-wing gun culture.

    Ironically, from the description of the actual groups, they’re like social awareness and charity groups that also happen to own guns. Last Action Heroes are strictly discouraged from joining and they vet their members carefully.

  76. 76.

    Barbara

    @JPL: it doesn’t take too much imagination, does it, to understand the kind of people who become quislings.

  78. 78.

    Gravenstone

    @donnah:

    I can’t believe that nobody seems to be shocked anymore.

    Personally, I’d describe my responses as resignedly gobsmacked. Knowing that reacting to his latest verbal atrocity with more than my usual “just shut the fuck up, you fucking imbecile!” isn’t likely to accomplish much in the short term. And trying to keep my blood pressure and stress levels down to a manageable level.

    First priority is obviously to get as many Democrats into office this cycle as possible. Then let them drive the levers of power to hold the moron and his enablers accountable.

    Next priority will be to ensure he is removed from office no later than 2020. There shall be no second political act for the Shitgibbon.

  79. 79.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:
    He is the symptom, writ large, of the entire republican party.
    Manifest destiny, that’s what we are seeing, at breakneck speed, the culmination of hundreds of years of white men’s power to be assholes to everyone else, because they think their shit doesn’t stink. Well it does.

  80. 80.

    Jay

    @chris:

    It’s also a Generation of Online asshats, where saying the quiet parts louder and louder in their hate enclaves online, gets them more and more “likes” and “upvotes”.

    Torching Democracy while wearing a mask online,

  82. 82.

    Corner Stone

    @Manyakitty:

    Is he all finished in GA, then, or did I mix that up?

    My understanding is he is now on to GA to stump for Stacey Abrams. Obama hit all the familiar themes we’ve seen recently but, as usual, it was delivered with some oomph and immediacy. ISTM like he’s been saving his batteries for this final push to voters.

  83. 83.

    hueyplong

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m not quite ready to call stupid and racist ads a sign of desperation as opposed to the default setting for Republicans late in any campaign. The dog whistle for it is “coming home.”

  85. 85.

    jl

    @Ruckus: I’m sure you know one. Most of the Trump supporters I know are lower educated white people who in addition to lack of a good education, have some personality issues that have held them back in life, that they can’t face or correct.

    But, I think absolutely critical to win elections. I think there is a difference between attribution of where most of Trumps support comes from (yes, lower educated white men), and thinking through where you can get a few extra votes, which in a 50 percent plus one vote, winner take all system, that can make 100 percent of the difference in who is representing you in Congress.

    So, the hard difficult to sway group seems to specifically be white male fundamentalists. Other lower educated white men are a good target for various arguments to get out and vote against the GOP, and in their own interests. You probably will get none of the white male evangelical voters no matter what you do. Others, good chance you’ll get 10 or 15 percent from an honest and good argument that doesn’t cater to racist ‘white’ or ‘Southern’ heritage crap or goofy superstitious toxic religious nonsense. If that gets you a few votes that puts you over the top, you win.

  86. 86.

    Barbara

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: There are Middle Easterners — homicidal ISIS types — infiltrating a caravan of pedestrian migrants who are being funded by George Soros. I mean, don’t you think George Soros would at least send a few air conditioned buses?

  87. 87.

    TenguPhule

    “These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.”

  88. 88.

    Miss Bianca

    @Corner Stone: I just wish someone, in the media or the military, would just call Trump out for what he is with this caravan shit: a pants-pissing coward, just trying to scare other pants-pissing cowards. It doesn’t look “tough”. It doesn’t look “manly”. It doesn’t look like Making America Great Again. It looks pathetic beyond words.

  89. 89.

    Gravenstone

    @JPL:

    Mediate had a clip of Fox and Friends talking about the other cable channels, and wondering why they didn’t just report what trump wanted. Then they would not be called enemy of the people.

    Just roll over and show your belly. Once you submit totally to him, it’s all easy peasy.

    Fucking servile jackholes.

  91. 91.

    jl

    @TenguPhule: I was going to post ‘You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all the people all the time’ and cite Lincoln. But I read up on it and it turns out he probably never said that. It was a 19th century advertising slogan.

    But, whatever, it is true, and also a good saying to remember now.

  92. 92.

    TenguPhule

    @Miss Bianca:

    I just wish someone, in the media or the military, would just call Trump out for what he is with this caravan shit: a pants-pissing coward, just trying to scare other pants-pissing cowards.

    Military is not allowed to. Media is incapable of doing so because Trump gets them clicks and eyeballs.

  93. 93.

    Ruckus

    @MattF:
    He’s not racist. OK…..
    He belongs to the republican party. The party that has three, intertwined doctrines. Racism, evangelicalism, wealth of themselves at the cost of who gives a shit. He either believes their doctrines or he’s lying about his political beliefs. Those are his choices as a politician running for office.

  96. 96.

    MattF

    @TenguPhule: I guess Mattis doesn’t want to be called a lickspittle. His problem now is that he’s faced with a puddle of spittle and an order to lick it.

  97. 97.

    TenguPhule

    @MattF:

    His problem now is that he’s faced with a puddle of spittle and an order to lick it.

    If a man builds a thousand bridges and sucks one dick, they don’t call him a bridge-builder… they call him a cocksucker.

    /Yes, I know its dated and possibly offensive, but the other version involves banging sheep.

  98. 98.

    Gravenstone

    @bemused:

    The crowd noise at the fathead’s rallies have always really bothered right me from the beginning, makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

    Most people react that way when they hear a feral animal snarling.

  102. 102.

    TenguPhule

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Finally, Nazi Times is critical of a president, unfortunately he is not currently in office, any guesses who I am talking about

    Clinton. Because Willy must be freed.

  103. 103.

    bluehill

    @Barbara: Hope you’re right. I think repubs have been dousing their base in gas for a while and now are looking for the spark to ignite them.

  106. 106.

    TenguPhule

    Manu Raju
    ✔
    @mkraju
    Trump walks back remarks from yesterday that US would treat throwing rocks by migrants the same as using a firearm. “They don’t have to fire. … If they do that with us, there are going to be problems… They are going to be arrested for a long time.”

    8:57 AM – Nov 2, 2018

    So instead of executions at the border, Trump has moderated his stance for refugees to Death by Concentration Camp.

  107. 107.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:
    Your words in the post.

    But sometimes it needs to be said anyway.

    It always needs to be said. I think part of the reason we got here in the first place was that often the bad parts haven’t been talked about, out loud. Part of that is the press, most of them are on the side being talked about so they aren’t going to do it or they are in it for the horse race, the he said – she said. A point would be to think about how divorce used to be, almost always the woman had to hire a lawyer/PI to find dirt on the guy to be able to walk away with any dignity, which of course there was none. The republican party is in divorce court, lying about all the one night stands, the secret bank accounts, etc. And being shown exactly who and what they are. It is crap but it has to be said out loud. Otherwise it never changes, it never gets any better.

  109. 109.

    Hoodie

    @A Ghost To Most: They’ve always been there, but the problem is bigger than them, a bigger crisis in values that allows sociopathic charlatans like Trump to flourish because morality devolves to power (winning). Hermann Broch’s The Sleepwalkers touches on this in exploring the lead up to the horrific violence in 20th century Europe. Ironically, perhaps the thing that has prevented the kind of violent nationalist cycles that plagued Europe from happening in the US was our relatively high level of immigration. Immigrants have periodically refreshed our ideas of what this country is supposed to be about.

  110. 110.

    Gravenstone

    @schrodingers_cat: Where the everloving fuck are you seeing ratfucking in the statement about base republicans being marinated in bullshit and being primed to respond when their leaders yank their chains? Seriously, this “Comrade Putinski” horseshit anytime someone says something you dislike (and not just you, it’s way too fucking pervasive here at times) needs to stop.

  111. 111.

    Brachiator

    @jl:

    I read some survey evidence that what put Trump over the top in 2016 was white male fundamentalist evangelicals. Once you take that out, Trump does not even do that well with non-college white men.

    I don’t think that this is the case, nor is it suggested by most of the analysis I’ve seen. Most recently (and hidden behind a pay wall), the Wall St Journal suggested an interesting dynamic shift, with college educated white women diverging sharply from non-educated white men, with white male support for Trump intensifying.

    “To understand how American voters are being driven apart, look no further than two powerful demographic forces: gender and education.

    Once, the political outlooks of white men without a college degree and white women with one were similar. In recent years, the groups, which represent about 40% of voters, have moved sharply apart. Analysis of the latest Wall Street Journal/NBC News survey shows the division to be at its widest since the poll began measuring it in 1994.

    The gap is something new in American politics, and it has fundamentally changed how campaigns are waged. Once, white voters as a whole were “persuadable’’—they might have leaned toward one party or the other, but no big bloc within the group was out of reach. Today, as the chart below shows, a campaign for Congress in many places starts with 60% of college-educated white women favoring the Democratic nominee. An even larger share of white men without degrees favor the Republican—making both essentially unreachable by the opposing candidate.”

    An NBC news site finds a similar development in these numbers:

    Check out these numbers: In the merged NBC/WSJ polling of 2017, white women with college degrees preferred a Dem-controlled Congress by 17 points (55 percent to 38 percent). In the merged NBC/WSJ polling from January to April, it was 26 points (60 percent to 34 percent). And in this latest poll, the margin is now 30 points (60 percent to 30 percent).

    By contrast, men without college degrees have become more GOP – from R+26 in 2017 (58 percent to 32 percent) to R+37 now (64 percent to 27 percent).

    These results are not consistently cross-indexed for gender/race/religion. You also see some differences when you compare single young white women with older married white women. But white men, no matter what, are hotter for Trump.

    And of course, it is not simply the case that white women are the driving force for the Democrats. Black women everywhere in America come out in strong numbers for the Democrats. Remember Roy More and the Alabama election?

  113. 113.

    piratedan

    if we start to see the rejection of Trumpian politics on Tuesday, I do hope that the Dems will remember to employ the same rules of media access, no ass kissing, no story…. after all, access to sources is what is important, not truth telling. I’m ready for the political whiplash that will take place at the NYT if the Dems do take back the House and Senate, I’m sure that we’ll all be treated to in-depth analysis to policy once more that will be even-handed and well researched and caters to the nuance of how each policy plank could spell doom for every potential political misstep.

  115. 115.

    TenguPhule

    The supreme court says new justice Brett Kavanaugh won’t take the traditional walk down the courthouse steps after his ceremonial installation on the court because of security concerns.

    Kavanaugh’s investiture ceremony is scheduled for Thursday morning in the courtroom. It is customary for a new justice to walk down the 44 marble steps in front of the building, accompanied by the chief justice. The moment provides a chance for news organizations to photograph the justice, since the courtroom event is closed to cameras.

    Court spokeswoman Kathy Arberg said Friday that the change is being made “out of an abundance of caution due to security concerns”.

    Would it be irresponisble to speculate that Brett is going to be drunk off his ass his entire time at the bench and therefore not presentable in public, ever?

  116. 116.

    TenguPhule

    @piratedan:

    I’m sure that we’ll all be treated to in-depth analysis to policy once that will be even-handed and well researched and caters to the nuance of how each policy plank could spell doom for every potential political misstep.

    I’m amazed you got through that with a straight face.

  117. 117.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Gravenstone: The person with this handle has been predicting Ds losses in the midterms since June. Tactics to depress turnout and voter enthusiasm.

    Comment from Oct 30th

    I was expecting an October surprise. I wasn’t expecting one everyday. I guess the plan is to dominate the news cycles with all this stuff and bury the real issues.
    I get the strategy.This is an analytics-based campaign and they are looking at multiple playing fields trying to suppress/discourage some voters and encourage their voters. 80k is all they needed for the presidency. The plan isn’t to get the most total congressional votes just win the most seats. Kanye West may not matter to most people, but he probably isn’t meant to. Just to get some black voters in some key districts to sit out. Coupled with a bunch of social media ads, outright voter suppression tactics and maybe it’s enough.

    May be its a labor of love, not a job. In that case, my apologies.

  118. 118.

    jl

    @Brachiator: Thanks for interesting comment and links. But I don’t see where it addresses the fundamentalist Christian vote at all. I can’t find the original article, but here is a link that addresses the effect of fundamentalist vote, which transcends income and gender. I don’t like the title, but the important bits are the statistics. I think the title should be ‘White Fundies are the big problem in turning elections against bad people’.

    Getting to Know White Voters
    Amy Walter
    https://www.cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/getting-know-white-voters

  119. 119.

    chris

    @germy:

    Texas Tribune debunks the Project Veritas video.O'Keefe spliced footage of Beto staffers discussing a (legal) $300 gift to an El Paso charity, with them discussing migrants transported by fed agents, and edited it to make it look like they said the campaign *paid the migrants*. https://t.co/DXErrUajVD— Matthew Chapman (@fawfulfan) 2 November 2018

  122. 122.

    jl

    And here is some evidence that White Evangelical support for Trump really seems to be the immovable obstacle. No point in changing core Democratic message to try to appeal to them. They have their new Saul, and will follow him over any number of cliffs until their leaders say their God has rejected him. The article is from April of this year, but the idea that this group’s support for him would grow over more than a year of total fail and lies and BS is mind-boggling.

    Poll: white evangelical support for Trump is at an all-time high
    Republican partisanship and a utilitarian evangelical strategy might help explain why.
    By Tara Isabella [email protected]@vox.com Apr 20, 2018
    https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/4/20/17261726/poll-prri-white-evangelical-support-for-trump-is-at-an-all-time-high

  123. 123.

    TenguPhule

    Donald Trump’s recently convicted former lawyer, and increasingly disloyal one-time confidant Michael Cohen told Vanity Fair that Trump “repeatedly used racist language before”.

    Some of the highlights (lowlights)?

    “[Trump] said to me: ‘Name one country run by a black person that’s not a shithole,’ and then he added: ‘Name one city,’” Cohen recalled, a statement that echoed Trump’s alleged comments about African nations earlier this year.

    “I told Trump that the rally looked vanilla on television. Trump responded: ‘That’s because black people are too stupid to vote for me.’”
    “We were going from the airport to the hotel, and we drove through what looked like a rougher neighborhood. Trump made a comment to me, saying that only the blacks could live like this.”

    Regarding a contestant on his show The Apprentice: “He said: ‘There’s no way I can let this black f-g win.’”

    This is my surprised face. : |

  124. 124.

    Chief Oshkosh

    The best example Trump’s assholeriness was the comment he made at the rally that night about how standing in the rain while talking to the press about the synagogue massacre gave him a bad hair day.

    If any Democrat anywhere had ever, ever done that,…well, what’s the point.

  126. 126.

    Kent

    If Trump and his people were even remotely competent they would have made sure a few middle class crumbs like some infrastructure projects had happened and tax refund checks actually came in the mail and then they would have been running on “morning in America” style ads this election rather than “caravan of death” and white nationalism.

    Anyone here old enough to remember these: They were super effective

    https://youtu.be/EU-IBF8nwSY

    It just astonishes me how far the Republican party has come from that era (which we thought was horrible too by the way but not in the same order of horrible as today)

  129. 129.

    jl

    @Brachiator: I still don’t see the article that put it all together in terms of good electoral strategy. But the point is, conservaDem approaches that do not distinguish between fundamentalist Evangelicals from other groups, can lead to misguided campaign strategies. I am putting some of my own ideological leanings and hunches into my personal conclusion. But for me, I think it shows it is a mistake to do any special corporatist, cultural, or religious center-right BS catering to get white males. One part of that group is fundie and absolutely nothing you can say will sway them. Other groups can be swayed by good, strong, principled, Democratic arguments.

  130. 130.

    Mandalay

    @JPL:

    I can’t wait until they blame the reporter that asked the question today how he feels about creating the violence that occurred in Pittsburgh.

    Steve King was asked the same question yesterday:

    “You and the shooter both share an ideology [that is anti-immigration],” a man seated at the forum said calmly to King. “What distinguishes your ideology?”

    He explicitly refused to answer the question, berated the questioner, and had him thrown out.

    There are plenty of vile Republican assholes running that I would love to see lose next week, but King is at the very top of my list.

  131. 131.

    TenguPhule

    David Fahrenthold
    ✔
    @Fahrenthold
    One interesting part: @realDonaldTrump had argued that a lawsuit would distract him from his duties as POTUS. But judge notes that, while in office, Trump has found time to threatened lawsuits against Bannon, Stormy, Michael Wolff..

    Petard, hoisted, own.

  132. 132.

    jl

    @Corner Stone: I never heard of her before, but from clicking on her stories I don’t see any juggling to favor the GOP in the last few weeks. If you have something that shows different, I’ll gladly read it.

  133. 133.

    Dan B

    @Ian G.: My heart sings thst you’d go to Fox headquarters to celebrate the end of Trump. It brings up two immediate thoughts.
    1. Fox will be around after Trump is gone. The “trusted” right wing machine will still be slipping fear of the other into the hearts of millions and filling their mouths with barricades to discussion and reasonable disagreement / debate. Social media will still exist and fulfill the propaganda needs of the power elite, until there are laws and enforcemet to expose the lies and manipulation.
    2. The liberal and democratic leadership will continue to use facts and data to counteract the right wing. This approach will continue to fail. Cognitive scientists will continue to point out why it fails.

    Last night Colbert had Chris Wallace in the chair. It was a lesson in how to rebut the right’s nonsense, especially the first part. Colbert didn’t argue the facts. He simply said he didn’t have the data but did nit agree with Wallace. Wallace knew he was trapped. He knew he’d fallen into the trap, the type of trap the right sets for liberals.
    Wallace maintained that immigrants (note: not “people seeking asylum from dangerous regions”) were “catch and release” and only 5 or 10 % showed up for their hearings. When Colbert got the figure – 60 to 70% Wallace danced all over them. “Only 10% are granted asylum. See I was right!” Even though that means 90% are sent back to what could mean misery or death. Wallace didn’t talk about human suffering. Colbert could have been stronger and included his Catholic belief in offering shelter to, and “welcoming the immigrant”.

    Make them support their data. Lead with your principles and your emotional backbone.

  134. 134.

    PAM Dirac

    @MattF:

    I’m not voting for him (I’m a Democrat, d’oh) but Hogan is probably going to win.

    Looking at the early vote (which is much more like 2016 than 2014), I’m not so sure. There certainly aren’t a lot of Dems excited to turn out to get rid of Hogan (as you say I don’t think he is a whole hearted racist), but I also don’t think there are a lot that are excited to re-elect him. I think most of the Dem surge is people that want to be part of a Blue Wave and say hell no to drumpf. If so, like always it comes down to turn out. In 2014 the turnout was weak in three big Dem strongholds, Baltimore City, Montgomery County and Prince George’s County, about 37% vs. 50-55% for a lot of the rural counties. In a presidential year, turnout is near 70%. After the early voting in 2014, the Dems had about an 88,000 lead in these counties in voters and that turned into about a 73,000 advantage in votes for governor. In 2018 early voting, the voter advantage is +210,000. About 6,000 of the increase comes from absentees, but most of it is +116676 in Dem turnout vs +758 in R turnout. If the net is the same, it means about +173,000 in votes. If the Dem enthusiasm carries over to election day, it wouldn’t be a big shock to see an additional +275,000-300,00 votes from these counties. I don’t know if there are enough Hogan votes in the other counties to make up for that, especially since the Dem early voting is up almost everywhere. Lot’s of ifs. We shall see on Tuesday.

  135. 135.

    TenguPhule

    The Pentagon expects to soon receive a long-delayed formal request from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to host detention facilities for thousands of migrant families, The Daily Beast has learned.

    Discussions are ongoing between the two departments, already collaborating with each other on a massive military mobilization at the southern border, officials said. It’s an effort that has prompted outrage and fears of troops firing on unarmed asylum seekers. Under discussion are the terms under which two military bases in Texas, the Army’s Fort Bliss and Goodfellow Air Force Base, will become detention sites for thousands of families.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/as-caravan-advances-pentagon-prepares-to-use-two-bases-for-migrant-detention

    This could be the Friday news dump. Not yet officially confirmed by the Pentagon.

    DHS refused to respond.

  138. 138.

    mad citizen

    @laura: Great comment Laura, so I’m repeating it: “That so many of our fellow Americans, our ‘friends’, family, co workers actually support this, delight in this, celebrate the degradation of our democracy, our Constitution, the very ideal of America as a force for good in the world is what breaks my heart.”

    I was having a conversation a couple weeks ago with a young ex-co-worker, a pretty big R but someone who likes history. We are both cable-tv cutters so talked about when we travel watching in the hotel. All he wanted to talk about was how amusing he thought CNN was, etc. I said I think I’m in a much different place than you are. He laughed and said, it will be OK, at worst, only six more years of this.

    I’ve started listening to an audio book on Harding’s Teapot Dome scandal. Funny how it’s almost always the Republican administrations that are so so crooked.

  140. 140.

    Sister Golden Bear

    Trump’s Alliance With Evangelicals Is at the Heart of the White House’s Anti-Transgender Push

    …What distinguishes evangelicals from other traditions, like Catholicism or Protestant denominations, explained Central Michigan University lecturer Sara Moslener, is a fixation on gender and sexuality as a “boundary marker,” and access to power. “What’s happening right now is there’s this kind of religious nationalism. You have people in positions of power who are able to influence policy in this way, and we can see that their religious-based understandings of gender and sexuality become policy,” she said.
    Moslener, the author of Virgin Nation: Sexual Purity and American Adolescence, said that evangelicals have found a way “to tap into the greater cultural anxieties of this moment.” She continued, “That’s what evangelicals are really good at doing; identifying an anxiety within the culture and then exploiting it and saying, ‘See, our way of making sense of things is the best way for the nation.’ And that way their ideas remain relevant.”

    Various far-right Christian groups that ally with the Trump administration promote the idea that transgender rights, indeed the very notion of transgender identity, threatens traditional families. The Family Research Council has committed itself to this point of view since its founding in 1983. Though the group’s beliefs resemble those of the SBC, FRC is an overtly political organization committed to a radical redefinition of the First Amendment’s religious freedom protections. FRC favors an expansive religious freedom right that includes the freedom to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. And it is a powerful force in Washington, with well-established links to the Republican Party. FRC’s president, Tony Perkins, advised Trump during his presidential campaign. Once in office, the president appointed Perkins to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. The group also referred to Severino as a “movement ally” in a January post celebrating Trump’s “healthy respect” for HHS.

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/trump-evangelical-transgender.html

    #WontBeErased

  142. 142.

    WaterGirl

    Trump is an awful person.

    You know who isn’t? Leto, and I imagine he could really use our help. There have been 30 donations totaling about 1,800 since Cole posted the GoFundMe 4 days ago. I don’t know how many of that 30 are from Balloon Juice, but many of them obviously are.

    I have, let’s say, overextended on political donations — I’m pretty sure a lot of people here can relate!

    I had to wait until the first of the month for a new influx of funds, so I am donating now. Just wanted to put this up as a reminder in case others might have had to wait until the 1st, also.

    https://www.gofundme.com/support-michael-barnwell

    Sending good thoughts to Leto and Avelune every single day.

  143. 143.

    Corner Stone

    @jl: I don’t read her written articles. She appears frequently on the Sunday shows as well as weekly pundit bits. IMO it’s hard to watch her through a segment and not* discern her bias. YMMV.

    Also, I think I added an “s” to her name. It is Amy Walter. She’s at The Cook Report and is amyewalter on the twit machine.

    ETA * added the not there

  144. 144.

    Chyron HR

    @TenguPhule:

    [Trump] said to me: ‘Name one country run by a black person that’s not a shithole,’

    Well, I’d try to “gotcha” Trump by saying that he was calling the US a shithole, but that was basically his campaign slogan so never mind.

  145. 145.

    Mandalay

    @Corner Stone:

    I have long despised Amy Walters. They try to cloak her in fair and balanced but she’s straight up R.

    Her name is Amy Walter, not Amy Walters. Are you possibly thinking of Amy Holmes, who somewhat fits your description?

  146. 146.

    jl

    @Corner Stone: OK, thanks. Being a regular on any talk show raises my suspicion, since the main qualification for that is being a shiftless centrist bullshitter who says nothing, or a GOP operative (IMHO). But so many are guilty on that score.

  147. 147.

    tobie

    @PAM Dirac: I really need to learn more about the demography of my state. I was stunned this morning to see the early voting totals for Montgomery County, Baltimore County, PG County, and Howard County, which are larger than just about anywhere else. I always thought Baltimore City had that distinction but evidently this is not the case. Anne Arundel (conservative), Baltimore City (liberal), and Harford (conservative) form the next big block. It’s small pickings after that.

    I just hope AG Frosh gives his opponent Wolf a thrashing. We need Frosh to lead the emoluments clause case.

  148. 148.

    Jay

    @TenguPhule:

    “Few people actually join the military to travel to distant lands to kill people. Fewer still join to help run concentration camps. Under both US and international law, military personnel have a moral and legal obligation to refuse to comply with any order that involves collaboration with these camps, but unfortunately few are aware of this fact.”

    https://couragetoresist.org

  149. 149.

    Mandalay

    @Immanentize:

    Nunes is at the top of mine because, unlike King, he has real power that he has abused.

    A fair call, but if the Republicans lose the House Nunes will go back to being a nobody.

    But if KKKing loses it sends a real message: if you want be an overtly racist politician then the voters will sling you out.

  151. 151.

    PAM Dirac

    @tobie:

    Anne Arundel (conservative), Baltimore City (liberal), and Harford (conservative) form the next big block.

    And even in this block of counties where you label two conservative, the Dem registration advantage is 537247 to 277545. The Dems really have a HUGE registration advantage in MD. For a R to win state wide they would either have to almost win the D vote or have a somewhat respectable part of the D vote and lousy D turnout. This year I think Hogan is going to make a somewhat respectable showing in the D vote (except in PG and Baltimore City) but it doesn’t look like he is going to get the lousy D turnout.

  152. 152.

    Dan B

    @Raven: Reminds me, in a very awful way, of the cointel pro creeps that infiltrated the Vietnam War protest groups. The FBI recruited people who had been convicted of crimes to infiltrate and disrupt peace groups. They were typically nutty or nasty. They tried to get people riled up to “fight the pigs” or claim “the only way to stop the killing us to arm ourselves”. The peace groups tried to treat them “peacefully”. All it took was a few people splitting off and behaving badly to turn the public against them. It was psy-ops on American soil.

    Even rumors, or outright lies, about leftist militias will be enough to justify mass arrests. Whether or not the current admin is competent enough to pull it off is the question – not whether or not they’d like to. They’ve got Putin, and Duterte, and Erdogan as examples. And Trump seems curious about how Kim operates.

  153. 153.

    JPL

    @WaterGirl: It was so nice for you to put this up as a reminder. I put in a small amount when it was posted but I’ll try to add a little more. Keep commenting on it on other posts.

  157. 157.

    Dan B

    @TenguPhule: As long as you don’t call out the manly men of Montana I’m good.

    (It’s about nervous sheep… Haven’t heard it in decades. Maybe cause too many (former) Montanans have migrated to Seattle.)

  158. 158.

    tobie

    @PAM Dirac: I agree that D turnout should give Hogan some heartburn. I still believe he’ll win but it won’t be a cakewalk. I’ve lived in MD for 20 years now but I can’t say I’ve ever really been excited by our politicians. Maybe that’s more often the case than not, but I look at figures like Abrams, Beto, and Gillum and wish we had someone equally inspiring.

  160. 160.

    WaterGirl

    @Mnemosyne: That is great. Just so you know, though, there was about 5k in the kitty from Leto’s work people, etc. when Cole posted it on Balloon Juice 4 days ago. The total was at 6,700 something when I posted my comment. Glad to hear it’s going up!

  161. 161.

    jl

    @Dan B: But looks like Colbert did have the data, and the correct and relevant data.
    Wallace has enough self respect not to go full Trump and accuse Colbert of being unfair to him, and then lying and intimidating his ass off.

    Too bad Wallace doesn’t have enough self-respect and scruples to leave Fox News and do the quality of work he is capable of doing.

  162. 162.

    germy

    Pres Obama as protesters heckle him in Miami: "Why is it that the folks who won the election are so mad all the time? … Like when I won the presidency, at least my side felt pretty good. It tells you something interesting, that even the folks that are in charge are still mad."— Yamiche Alcindor (@Yamiche) November 2, 2018

  163. 163.

    Brachiator

    @jl:

    Thanks for interesting comment and links. But I don’t see where it addresses the fundamentalist Christian vote at all.

    I noted that most of the exit polling and subsequent analysis did not look deeply at variations of race/gender/religion. As a result, I think it is difficult to make any big statement about white evangelicals being the core of Trump’s base. The Cook Report also does something odd.

    Those without a college degree give Trump a 52 percent job approval rating, while just 40 percent of those with a college degree approve of the job he’s doing.

    Job approval rating and voting are not the same thing. Similarly,

    Meanwhile, among women, if you remove evangelicals, white women with and without a college degree have the same (very low) opinion of the president.

    There is too much that has to be unpacked here. Evangelicals (whatever that means) are not evenly distributed across the country. I don’t know that equal numbers of evangelicals are college educated and without college degrees.

    But for me, I think it shows it is a mistake to do any special corporatist, cultural, or religious center-right BS catering to get white males.

    I agree that white males are harder to reach. Much of the data show them moving more toward Trump. But the reasons for this may be more complex than you can see just by looking at polling.

    One part of that group is fundie and absolutely nothing you can say will sway them.

    Black evangelicals do not vote for Trump, or for Republicans. Many Trump supporters are frightened bigots, with a veneer of religion. But Trump and the GOP have to lie to them big time to keep them in the fold. Right now, they believe, or pretend to believe, that Trump will protect Social Security and Medicare, and will guarantee jobs and low taxes. I’m not sure how long Trump can keep peddling BS before even the thickest fool rethinks their vote.

  164. 164.

    jl

    @Brachiator: Thanks. My only comment is that even if the religion is a veneer, that veneer seems to be a very hard shell, impossible to crack, and more important signal that voter is beyond reach than any other demographic factor.

    And, as I noted above, my, admittedly personal, interpretation is that if you try to dilute a strong, core-value, Democratic message to try to reach less educated whites as a whole, that is recipe for failure. Because it tries to appeal to a religious voting block that is beyond reach, and dilutes a clear strong message to others that can be swayed by strong principled arguments.

    Less educated white males are a shame on whites and males, but I think with a good strong Democratic message, we can reach enough of the non-fundies among them to make a difference.

  165. 165.

    tomtofa

    The shorthand has become the pipe bombs and Pittsburg.
    Let’s not forget the Nigerian video justifying the police killing protestors: “Please Watch and Make Your Deductions”, showing Trump’s comments about treating migrants as ‘armed’ if they throw rocks.
    And the Kroger shooting, where the white supremacist killer said to a (white) bystander “Don’t shoot me. I won’t shoot you. Whites don’t shoot whites.”
    All in a bit more than a week…

  166. 166.

    Brachiator

    @jl:

    And, as I noted above, my, admittedly personal, interpretation is that if you try to dilute a strong, core-value, Democratic message to try to reach less educated whites as a whole, that is recipe for failure.

    Who is suggesting this? I don’ t think that analyzing voters by various demographic indices immediately suggests any particular voting strategy.

    Also, I think that Trump is a danger to American democracy. To everyone. If he and the Republicans continue to rule, a strong, core-value Democratic message won’t mean shit.

    Because it tries to appeal to a religious voting block that is beyond reach, and dilutes a clear strong message to others that can be swayed by strong principled arguments.

    Ah, a central difference. I think many of these white people are out of reach, for now, because they are bigots, not because they are religious. But even white bigots can be moved when the plutocrats start fucking them over.

    Let’s see what’s shaking after November 6.

  167. 167.

    jl

    @Brachiator: A sincere belief in that particular flavor of fundamentalism may be the cause of the bigotry, or the other way around. The underlying cause might be bigotry and the weird flavor of Christian fundamentalism white followers espouse might just be a convenient cover. I’m just saying it’s a very strong cause, or signal (take your pick), that can be used to improve campaign strategy, and justifies putting a strong Democratic message out to every broad demographic group.

    Edit: and sorry if I seemed to be accusing you of disagreeing with idea of putting strong Dem message out for every group. I didn’t mean to imply that.

  168. 168.

    Mike in DC

    @jl:
    I believe that Carter was the last Democratic candidate for president to get 50 percent of the white vote, in 1976. Since then, we typically get 40 to 45 percent in a straight two way race. So going from 40 to 45 is great. Worrying about getting to 50+ is a waste of time and effort, though.

  169. 169.

    steppy

    @Ian G.: I also fantasize about the so-called president* fleeing the country. That would probably be a valid 25th Amendment scenario, no?

  170. 170.

    jc

    The expression Trump makes that I hate the most is the maudlin frown-y face he makes during his volk rallies when he’s saying: “crooked Hillary Clinton.” It just makes me long for the day when it all catches up to him.

    Just had to get that off my chest.

  171. 171.

    J R in WV

    A lot of polling seems to revolve around college degrees. I was just researching 20 candidates for 2 vacant supreme court positions here in WV. Imagine my surprise (not) to find one guy with his law degree from Oral Roberts University. Another was (after a whole LOT of research) a member of the Federalist Society.

    Anyway, where I’m going with this is that lots of college degrees are from two-bit theocratic Christian “colleges” in the country-side. These are the college graduates who support Trump, if I am seeing things straight. People who – far from being taught critical thinking – are being taught that most things were set in stone 6,000 years ago, and there’s no point in thinking critically about truths graven in stone that long ago.

  172. 172.

    Gretchen

    Thank you for Third Lady. She’s about third-rate as far as dignity goes, as is her husband.

  173. 173.

    Boris

    Every reporter and citizen should ask their Republican Congressperson if they agree with tRump’s statement. They should have to answer for THEIR president.

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