Worthless soon-to-be-indicted failson pushing white genocide bullshit one week after a Neo-Nazi terrorist attack (and as three Trump fans cite Trump's rhetoric as a defense for their plot to murder Somali refugees.)
Complete with a made-up statistic & the 88 signaling device. pic.twitter.com/FCGeuBt6fu
— Zeddy (@Zeddary) November 3, 2018
Every time you think Trump and the Repubs have hit bottom, they find a new low.
Silver lining — when they’re reduced to attacking Angus King, they’re pretty godsdamned desperate for attention…
I would also encourage anyone who interviews him to ask Don Jr a simple question: what is wrong with people from Syria or Somalia? When someone attacks people this way based on race, religion or national origin they should be asked to explain their thinking.
— Student Loans ?? (@AdamSerwer) November 3, 2018
It's actually 83 percent. That 88 is just another dog whistle. https://t.co/UfvhGo2Fes pic.twitter.com/V0hscAqazp
— Brooke Binkowski (@brooklynmarie) November 3, 2018
Never mind — Google is my friend. "Fourteen Words, 14, or 14/88, is a reference to slogans coined by white supremacist David Lane, a founding member of the terrorist organization The Order."
— FM (@FloMillet) November 3, 2018
It's been one fucking week since the Pittsburgh massacre. One. And these cretins can't even hold it together for that long without engaging in the same xenophobic rhetoric that the shooter used. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that they want people to get killed.
— Thicc Shoggoth (@TheRealSeanCrib) November 3, 2018
Under Trump we no longer have to deal w Islamophobia as a pernicious & distinct illness in American society, because racism, xenophobia, & antisemitism have all come back to levels they hadn’t been at in many years. So, hooray I guess.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 3, 2018
A Ghost To Most
Fucking Nazis.
Yutsano
On the one hand I think we need a Truth and Reconciliation committee after the Dolt45 regnum. But only after the entire family (save Marla, Tiffany, and Barron) are either jailed, exiled, or killed. All of Ivana’s kids are trash.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
Remember that whole “Democracy in Chains” book?
What do y’all think of this Vox article about it?
Even the intellectual left is drawn to conspiracy theories about the right. Resist them.
Corner Stone
I’m just asking questions. Sigh.
Cheryl Rofer
They are ramping it up for the election. Three more days. Where can they go from here? Never mind, that’s a rhetorical question.
What I’m concerned about is where they go after the election. I doubt that whether they win or lose will make a difference in anything but the particular nature of the gripes – “the OTHERS stole it” if they lose and “the OTHERS are exerting too much influence” if they win. I don’t see them changing course, even if they lose both the House and Senate.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Corner Stone:
You don’t have to fucking like me. That’s fine. But I’m genuinely trying to get opinions on that piece, because I read other articles about that McLean’s book that were gushingly supportive of it.
I’m sick of your passive-aggressive shit. You don’t have to like me but don’t do this shit.
Chetan Murthy
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: One thing I do in “fraught” computer science issues, is (if possible) to wait. Eventually, such issues achieve a certain consensus amongst the relevant qualified researchers. Especially if I’m not an expert in the specific sub-field, that’s much better than trying to judge an argument in-flight.
In this case, I know that Brad Delong and a few others are vigorously contesting the notion that MacLean’s book is rubbish. The people making that argument aren’t all assholes — at least some of them, I respect. But then, I respect Delong a great deal, too. Time will tell.
But one thing for sure: Tyler Cowen!! I saw his name mentioned (in the article), and had to stop to glance. Libertarian piece-of-shit sophist up-to-no-good asshole, that man. I stopped reading Marginal Revolution years and years ago, b/c I got so goddamn tired of his sophistry being systematically deployed in favor of the wealthy and powerful. Fuck him.
Suzanne
@Yutsano: I don’t want them killed. For one, I want to go back to being a rule-of-law country. And secondly, I want to laugh at pictures of them in prison.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Cheryl Rofer:
What if they lose many statehouses and governorships too? Like you, I’m concerned as well and I’m not sure what can be immediately done about it. Normally, I’d say that law enforcement needs to investigate these violent right wing groups and prosecute them; that laws need to be passed to mitigate them. But we don’t control those agencies in most places.
Don Jr is truly a disgusting piece of shit
?BillinGlendaleCA
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Always look at the authors of any piece and see if they have an ax to grind.
dmsilev
@A Ghost To Most: Who would have thought that “Nazis are bad” would have in any way been a controversial position to take? I hate this timeline.
Yutsano
@Suzanne: I actually agree. But it also wouldn’t surprise me if they try to resist justice. I should have been more specific about that.
Matt McIrvin
He’s engaging in genocide by proxy. Rile up the homicidal nuts, get them to kill all of the Jews, blacks, Democrats, foreigners and people who do yoga. Maybe make a sad face for five minutes if somebody calls you on it, get the dupes on CNN to call it the five minutes you became President.
Chetan Murthy
@dmsilev: Henry Farrell seems to me to be a decent bloke, one of the FPers at Crooked Timber. I don’t know anything about the other author, Teles, other than that he works for the Niskanen Center (libertarian think-tank [spit])[1]. But I have neither read MacLean’s book, nor the dueling posts/essays/ripostes from MacLean, Farrell/Teles, Delong, and others. It’s not urgent — so I figure I’ll wait until they reach some sort of consensus.
I mean, that happens with many fraught questions: you just have to have a decent idea of who the experts are.
[1] Libertarians rank really low on my scales of honesty and expertise. So the fact that Farrell is a co-author means much, much more.
Corner Stone
It’s not fucking hard. Take 3 minutes to research. The fact that that NEVER EVER happens tells me all I need to know.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Chetan Murthy:
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Good advice. Both of you. I don’t know any of these people, aside from Brad DeLong. I read the first couple of paragraphs and thought it was sophist bullshit.
“Well, it’s true some proponents of public choice policy are right-wingers BUT…”
dmsilev
@Chetan Murthy: I think maybe you meant to reply to someone else rather than me?
Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin:
In this case, that translates to “women who won’t fuck me”.
Emerald
They want anything that creates chaos. How do you fight chaos? It’s how people with serious psychological problems control their families. Trump is controlling us that way. Was it really only two weeks ago that he was exposed as having taken $415 million from his father instead of one, and we’ve already dropped the topic? If a Democrat had done that they’d be nearly driven out of office by now.
Killing people they see as sub-human comes as a bonus.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Corner Stone:
I’m fucking lazy sometimes, so sue me. All I wanted was others to share their opinions first, because I was unsure. That’s doesn’t make me a fucking troll, you putz.
And another thing: why do you never talk directly to me? Do you lack that much respect for me?
JGabriel
DanaHoule via Anne Laurie @ Top:
Unfortunately, the fact that racism, xenophobia, & antisemitism were so easily resurrected to present levels by an inept, incompetent clown with zero charisma indicates that they were never really gone to begin with.
Corner Stone
I got no feels left for Melania. I never did, TBH. But she has burned every bridge back she ever might have had.
GxB
Okay here’s something that hasn’t happened in a while. Old HS buddy back in town, we hadn’t caught up in several years. Grab a decent sammy at the local hole in the wall, cross main street for a couple beers to catch up. Place is dead, couple quiet oldster pairs, LSU/Alabama games on the 4 or 5 TV screens… Another dead night in Podunk, Wisconsin. About a half hour before we leave, an old lonelyheart comes in, chatting up the bartender in a bigmouth voice. We look at each other and roll our eyes, buddy says words to the effect of “Probably a Trumper…”
A good 20 minutes of benign loud blabber in the background, but we both know it’s coming. Buddy is nursing a beer, I’m long done as I’m driving, mouthy guy finally starts laying into the “democ(r)a(ps)ts and their incompetence..” I roll my eyes, that’s enough, let’s go. But as I get up from the bar, something snaps and I’d heard enough – this shitty backwater has been under the thumb of Trumpies long enough, I say “Hey buddy, wanna take it down a notch?”
It’s on, he’s about 65 and 275lbs, there’s two if us (both 50 – well one of us anyway, the other (ahem, me) is not far behind- and 200 lbs each. He shoots right back with a “Fuck Off!” He makes a half-hearted attempt to stand.
I admit I gave a bit of a sneering laugh and flip him off, “Eat shit you old dick.” My buddy is riled and takes politics WAY more seriously than me. It gets loud and a bit chaotic quick. We all sneer and exchange obscene gestures, insults, and mostly hollow threats for 30 seconds. Buddy gets in a cut about Mueller that apparently hits a nerve. Only audience is the lady bartender of about our age, and another older fellow in the no-man’s land between us who’s had a few, but is keeping his mouth shut. I motion my buddy to the door, we’re not wasting time on this shithead any more, but I can’t resist to give him the old “crotch chop” motion as we leave
From the bar I hear the bartender say “Thanks guys, have a good night!” in a sincere voice. Possibly because we bought something more than the Miller Lite douchbag is swilling,or possibly because we actually left a tip. Douchebag’s parting shot is “Yeah, go back to Madison or Milwaukee or wherever you pussies are from…”
I sigh, my buddy gets to go back to the Twin Cities, and I can only dream of going back to Madison.
Chetan Murthy
@?BillinGlendaleCA: @dmsilev: Oh sorry, I meant to reply to Bill’s comment about checking out the authors. It’s a wise choice. Problem for me here, is the authors are a mixed bag. And the area might as well be Greek to me [sure sure I [pretend to] know some econ and poli sci, but not enough to judge these issues, not by a long shot].
On the other side, I have -enormous- respect for Brad Delong, which I’ve learned over the last …. 15 years or more. Especially his work since the Great Recession.
dmsilev
So we’ve had, in just the past week, lethal hate-based violence against blacks, Jews, and women. Plus a bunch of “wouldn’t it be nice if our military shot a bunch of Latino refugees”. Plus some anti-Muslim hysteria as part of the Iran-sanctions posturing. Have I missed anything? Again, that’s just this past week.
Chetan Murthy
@Corner Stone: 100% with ya, buddy. 100%. She can go to St Helena with Shitlord.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I hope to hell that Mueller can take down some of these people [sic]. At this point, I think it’s the only way the country is going to make it. Whenever and however this unspeakable horror ends, there can’t be any of this “look forward, not back” shit this time. People have to answer for this.
Keith P.
So after spending all day in bed recovering from my brutal hospital stay, I went to check my bank balance and say $700 worth of fraudulent charges go through today. It took 2 hours to finally get the charges disputed and the card reported stolen, but the stress from all of it has been utterly overwhelming (I was in the circular logic hell trying to contact PayPal over the biggest charge). I think I might have to go back to the hospital this weekend.
satby
@Corner Stone: ???
opiejeanne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: You really don’t listen, do you?
When you were whining that you don’t know what to do for an ending for your book, I asked if you’d even started writing it. You didn’t answer but I’m betting you haven’t even bothered to write down your ideas for what the book will be about.
The way to write a book is to write a book. So get started.
Oh, and read some other books to notice things like writing style and how they develop characters, how they tell the story, and see what you like, what you don’t like. It’s one way to find a voice.
Cheryl Rofer
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: I’m not working out any scenarios in detail for election “what if”s. It’s really hard to predict what Trump will do, and most of the bigots will follow his lead. He might even be shocked into silence.
frosty
@Suzanne:
I hadn’t really considered the entertainment value of the TrumpSpawn. I’m in!
Chetan Murthy
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: There’s nothing wrong with being young. There’s nothing wrong with not knowing various academic fields intimately. Could I suggest that, for a few, you might want to remedy that? You can pick which ones, but it isn’t as hard as it sounds, to get a passing familiarity with many of the concepts of, for instance, economics or political science. I read a shit-ton of econ, poli-sci, and law blogs. And over the last 15 years, I feel like it’s been a real education, esp. in economics. And guess what? It’s really, really easy. You put the blogs into your feed-reader (I use feedly these days) and just check out the posts every day (or week, or whatever). Don’t even read all of ’em — just some percentage. Over … a decade you’ll learn more than you ever thought possible.
Seriously, think about it. Easy, cheap, and you’ll have something to do on the pot. HA!
opiejeanne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Oh, and leave Corner Stone alone. He told you why he doesn’t bother to answer you: because you never fucking listen.
opiejeanne
@Corner Stone: She can go home to whatever eastern European… I was going to say shithole but I’ve decided to be nice, Eastern European trash pile she climbed out of, and she can stay there.
Wapiti
@Yutsano: While I think the Truth and Reconciliation committee is probably needed, it really is for when one side has totally taken over and is giving the other side a chance to rejoin society. I’m not sure we’re there or will be there any time soon.
But I’d be pretty impressed if a Democratic House had the appropriate committee hold some hearings on antisemitism with subpoenas for some of the recent offenders in the chattering classes.
Chetan Murthy
@frosty: @Suzanne: 100% with Suzanne! I want them in prison, providing an object lesson in what happens when you turn traitor, turn white supremacist, turn fascist. Ever see those pics of Shitlord as imagined without his hair? I WANT THAT. Like Gotti after (what was it?) 10yr in prison. Not so Teflon anymore, Don Gotti. Damn, I want that. I want him to have a LONG LIVE in fucking federal prison. I want him to be protected, so he doesn’t get shanked or anything. I want every damn day we can get of him in lockup.
satby
@Keith P.: try to get some rest and take care of yourself. That’s hard when shit like that happens I know, but you and healing up is more important.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Not that it’s any of my business, but why are people hassling Goku? Why the need to beat up on him or her? Seems like it wouldn’t be that hard to just not do that to people.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
In this case, I think it’s easy, he’ll start that vague bullshitting he does “Many people are saying some very terrible things went on in the House elections, a lot of bad stuff is being reported….” By Friday of next week the Howler Monkeys at his rallies will be talking about the stolen House
opiejeanne
@Cheryl Rofer:
If only.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@opiejeanne:
Thanks for the advice, but I was never “whining” as you put it. And I have written down the ideas into a loose outline. I never answered because I was asleep. I’ll write when I have more time between semesters.
Chetan Murthy
@Wapiti:
Right. The time for T&R commissions is after the bad guys have been -totally- defanged, rendered harmless. Even after 2020 [assuming best-case] there will still be a long, long, long [did I mention long?] fight to fix the damage from both Shitler, and the Roberts court. No way we can give any of these assholes get-out-of-jail-free cards just for ‘fessing up. That didn’t help us after Watergate — they went right back to their dirty tricks.
satby
@opiejeanne: and Goku repeatedly has announced he’s “too lazy” to Google for himself. But feels entitled to have us do the research and then type it all out here for him.
Nope.
Mnemosyne
Did two different writing things today where I had to think about my book AND be social with people, and the timing meant that I skipped lunch. I am SO FREAKIN’ TIRED right now. It’s making me rethink if I should go to yet another NaNo event tomorrow.
satby
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): see #44.
opiejeanne
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): He’s been a bit of a pill, again. The questions he asks, over and over, are really a lot like a closed tin with oily rags in it in the corner of the shed.
Also, his incessant whining about how he wants to write but doesn’t know how, which keeps coming up because even after published writers here and everyone else has tried to help him, he comes back a couple of weeks later and repeats his complaints. I have tried for months to be nice to him, and failing that, ignoring him but after a while he just gets on my nerves and I’m guessing a couple of other people here as well.
I guess I could feed him some pie.
Mnemosyne
@Keith P.:
Ugh. I hope you can get some rest and recover a bit without having to check back into the hospital.
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Goku’s been kind of a dick this week. I know we all deal with stress in different ways, but he needs to choose a new way.
TS (the original)
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
and together with his father, he should be banned from twitter. Anyone else making these attacks would be long gone
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@opiejeanne:
I do listen. I was perfectly willing to leave CS alone, but he doesn’t know when to keep his mouth shut. He was talking about me in those comments. It was rude, it pissed me off, and I’m getting sick of it.
Yutsano
@opiejeanne: Slovenia is actually one of the better off of the Balkan republics. It’s actually dome the most to integrate with the EU and try to shake off all the Communist and nationalistic ties. But she got her escape route and Trophy Wife status. She’d own half of Slovenia if she left with Barron now.
satby
Not sure this will work, but it’s a link to a great piece by Jim Wright.
Trouble is it’s on his Facebook Stonekettle page. Well worth a read, even though it’s long.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@opiejeanne:
I’ll never bring up my writing again.
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
I accidentally ended up at a book signing for a book I’d been meaning to read anyway, and it turned out that she wrote the first 50K words of it for Camp NaNo a few years ago. ?
(The book is “The Wedding Date,” by Jasmine Guillory.)
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Mnemosyne:
How? Please enlighten me. This is coming out of left field to me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
/mounts hobbyhorse…. one of several, TBH/
that missing $26 million from the inaugural fund is in a Swiss bank with at least an ATM in Slovenia.
/dismounts/
Redshift
@Yutsano:
But that type never resist physically (which is the only thing that would get them killed. Also, they’re rich (until after the trial, at least) and white. If they resist justice, it’ll be by fleeing the country.
However, that does bring up another potential source of entertainment – I want to see them stripped of their ill-gotten gains, and not even able to keep up the pretense of being rich.
The Dangerman
I’ll quibble. They don’t want people to get killed. They just don’t care if people get killed if it means they get another tax cut or or another judge.
Uncle Omar
@Chetan Murthy: Frankly, the business that Hitler got in Hell in “Little Nicky” would be about right for the Don of the Trump Crime Family.
opiejeanne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Yes, you were whining, and just last week. It was evident to anyone paying attention.
Maybe you should just do that, take notes and keep them until you’re finished with college and then write your brilliant novel, when you have more time and only have to worry about going to work every day. John Scalzi wrote his first sci-fi novel in the time he had formerly been using to play video games. It’s a pretty decent book, Agent to the Stars.
I started my book that way, taking notes nearly 20 years ago when I was still running a small business and was too busy to think about writing. Yesterday I found a newspaper clipping I picked up in 2002 and scanned so I’d have it now because I knew it belonged in my book that I was going to write someday. The story it tells will be the climax of the book, and I’m just about to write that part of the book, the climax. What comes after, the ending, is what I’m not sure of yet, but the book will tell me which of the two endings it wants. You think that’s silly? I’ve had two characters add themselves to the book that I wondered why they were there, but as I near the end I know why I needed them. Yes, I created them, but I didn’t expect to create them.
Ok, I’ve blathered enough now about my project, so work on your own. One thing I did was to write down the possible names of your cast of characters while you’re making storyline notes; that will come in handy when you get going.
Chetan Murthy
@Redshift:
Yet another way in which [god willing] Shitler’s use-and-abuse of the international settlements system could come back to bite him and his feculent horde in the ass: wherever they secrete their money, if they wanna spend it in the West, we’ll be able to find it and take it. Oh that’d be delicious.
TS (the original)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’d forgotten all about the inaugural funding – can a democratic house start an enquiry into that? I would like it to take about 2 years.
Bobby Thomson
@TS (the original):
You sweet summer child.
opiejeanne
@satby: Yes. Missed that. Sometimes I pose a question and preface it with “too lazy to google” and people are kind and answer me, or ignore me. But I try not to make a habit of it.
I had to google PV today to find out that Bill in Glendale was referring to Palos Verde.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@satby:
Sometimes I just like to ask random questions just for the hell of it. I ask them here because I know many of the commenters here are extremely knowledgeable and well-educated.
Other commenters ask questions here. I don’t just do it for “research”. I guess I’ll try to do it less often from now on.
opiejeanne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Ha. How pissed off do you think Corner Stone is to treat you like that?
His comments mocking you (yes, that’s what he’s doing) are pretty mild, really.
Redshift
@Chetan Murthy: The other common feature of T&R commissions is amnesty “for those who have not committed serious crimes.” I think that could work here, once conditions that others have already mentioned are met.
Corner Stone
@opiejeanne: Damn. I’ve been wondering where that’s been going.
TS (the original)
@Bobby Thomson: I still remember Hope
Chetan Murthy
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Perhaps think of the commenters as a sort of professoriate. One of the things that professors will do, when asked questions by students, is, instead of answering, to suggest a course of study which will yield the answer to the student. if you value these professors’ opinions, their expertise, their history, then you should take seriously their suggestions. And act on them.
Perhaps you can’t devote the time to write a novel right now. Do you write sketches? Short stories? [I’m sure there’s an entire methodology to how to become a better writer, and I have difficulty believing that all of it consists in “sit down and start writing the Great American Novel, until you’re finished”.]
opiejeanne
@Yutsano: Is it a nice place now?
I read about any of the Balkans and I still shudder because of what they’ve been, what they’ve done, and also because of what’s been done to them, yes.
If she’s sent back it should be with minimal cash, though. None of this sending her home with a large cash prize for lecturing us to Be Best.
opiejeanne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: see, you’re not listening or that’s not what you would have taken away from that post.
WE ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU WITH YOUR WRITING.
Pay attention.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: How fun!
Years ago I went to a book reading for someone I’d never heard of and bought her book after she read from it. It was The Shipping News.
I got off to a rip-roaring start but today I wrote 300 words, and most of it’s going into the circular file later. It was just writing and spinning my wheels while I thrashed around, figuring how to start writing the last two or three chapters. Ugh.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@opiejeanne:
I’ve tried leaving him alone. And what he’s (probably) pissed about happened like 3 or 4 months ago. He should get the fuck over it and move on, not make those comments. He should either pie me or ignore me.
opiejeanne
@Corner Stone: LOL!
Silly man, you mock me but I’m gonna have a good time and shoot up some Confederates and bushwhackers in the backwoods where my family’s from.
opiejeanne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: It’s that just for the hell of it that bugs some of us, especially when it’s a variation on the same questions. I mean, the one about bringing democracy to the rest of the fallen world with gunboat diplomacy.
Jesus Christ, man! Jesus Christ on a pogo stick!
satby
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
satby
No idea what I just did there.
Suzanne
@Yutsano:
You sure about that? The lady just wanted to be a trophy wife and go to charity events and shop, and now that lifestyle is gone for her, as long as she’s married to him. I would bet that there is a compelling legal reason that she doesn’t leave, either the prenup is not favorable to her, or she would have to share custody or something.
opiejeanne
@Chetan Murthy: I seem to remember that short stories are really a different animal from a novel or novella or novelette*, that the best ones are often studies in irony, and that it’s a lot harder to write a short story.
You’re right. Hemingway claimed that’s how he wrote but I have never believed it would work for the vast majority of good writers.
*Please don’t ask me to explain the differences between those last two
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m sure she’s been paid off, and/or that any prenup was rewritten to get her to stay on. Also, she was a B-list (if that) model who now meets the queen of England, however briefly, and had tea with the queen of Spain not long ago.
satby
So, to the topic posted before it got derailed, I’m not sure what we can do with a Truth and Reconciliation commission when a very determined minority refuses to believe any authorities but Alex Jones and Sean Hannity. I was only half joking last week about asking for help from the Germans on de-Nazifying.
eemom
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Again, I will offer a bit of sincerely meant motherly advice: stop taking this place so seriously. Spending less time here might help too.
opiejeanne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: You’re not leaving him alone though. I think you need to forget about a meaningful relationship with CS and ignore him.
If, while you’re busy ignoring him but actually joining discussions, you make some salient points, or even some not-so-salient ones, you both may be reconciled to never speaking to each other again.
opiejeanne
@satby: Can I come and sit beside you? I have some very dark thoughts about how difficult this de-Nazification will be, if we are able.
Frankensteinbeck
@The Dangerman:
I disagree. Trump is himself a Nazi, and may or may not think of himself with that specific word. The whole family except MAYBE Kushner are extreme white supremacist racists, and sadistic shits in general. They not only want people to get killed, they just might want it more than corrupt riches, maybe. They want genocide, everyone who isn’t white dead and women legally completely subordinate to men.
Steeplejack
Just watched my computer clock roll over from 1:59:59 to 1:00:00. Yee-haw.
ETA: And then watched FYWP refuse to post the comment.
ETFA: And now I see that FYWP did eventually post it.
Major Major Major Major
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Uh huh.
satby
@opiejeanne: sure! I have cookies, too ?
Chetan Murthy
@satby: The Germans also had vast numbers of people who thought of their time under Hitler as the best times of their lives [ok, well, except for the last bit]. That’s pretty well-documented. But they managed to educate following generations [my memory is, it took at least one generation before the lessons started sticking] about what really happened. Of course, they had both a benevolent overlord (us) and a dire enemy (the USSR) to nudge them along.
I also worry that we simply have no path to fixing this rift in our country. Martin van Creveld would argue [I think] that that was true the last time [the Civil War] also, and that it’s a basic military fact more than anything else: an entrenched resistance cannot be defeated except thru genocide.
Which brings me to the only solution I think will work: replacement. These fuckers, need to be replaced with hard-working immigrants. Let’s start with amnesty and permanent residence + fast-track-to-citizenship to all law-abiding undocumented immigrants. All of them. We need to outbreed the assholes, as quickly as possible. Of course, with a beefed up Voting Rights Act and more, much more, to protect voters. But I think, if they’re going to remain racist assholes, and in such large numbers, we need to outbreed them.
I for one, cannot sign up for such service. My boys are too old (53) for me to be willing to gift a child with ’em. So it’s up to all you young’uns.
satby
Ugh, clocks back tonight, right? Need to hit the hay.
Happy extra hour, everyone.
WaterGirl
@FlyingToaster: I don’t pie Goku, but I mostly never read him. I pretty much stopped after he admitted to having written something just to get a rise out of people. Life’s too short. But he was flailing so badly tonight that my maternal instinct took over as if he was a baby animal.
I am still on Sierra using Safari with Adblock Plus and Ghostery, and I am able to edit just fine. For what it’s worth. Ca you NEVER edit, or does it come and go?
edited to remove a phrase I thought was hurtful.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@opiejeanne:
Thanks. I’ll be sure to share.
Hey, you want to know why I always ask about my writing every few weeks? My interest in it waxes and wanes around that timespan and I always forget the advice people give me. I bookmark threads but it’s such a chore to go through them to find out what I need. Organization has never been my strong suit.
And this may sound sad, but i like sharing my ideas around here for the validation.
satby
@Chetan Murthy: a counter- Quiverfull movement? I think trading racists for immigrants works better, but no other country wants them either.
Nite ?
Major Major Major Major
@Chetan Murthy:
There are more such methodologies than writers, but the one thing they all have in common is WRITING SOMETHING.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@satby: Me either, but it was real pretty.
The Dangerman
@Frankensteinbeck:
Uh-uh. They are all greedy fucks to the very core. That’s their only motivation; mo’ money. And they attract hangers on that only want the mo’ money (I mean, I wonder if Kimberly Guilfoyle would still be doing Don Jr. if he’s flipping burgers … yeah, not.
ETA: I’ve never watched Hunger games but I kinda get the premise. Put Donald, Donald Jr., Melania, and Kimberly on an Island, to the Death, and Kimberly’s the one coming out.
CaseyL
Prison? Meh. Death sentences for each and every one of them. I want them to be an object lesson that people will remember for the next 50 years, like the word remembered the Nuremberg trials. I want even people not immediately indicted – their lickspittle pundits and cheerleaders, say – to spend the rest of their lives looking over their shoulders and breaking out in cold sweats.
I don’t want mere disgrace for them, and I don’t have any desire to point and laugh.
I want them destroyed.
patroclus
Beto now tied with Cruz and Bredeson now tied with Blackburn!!
Frankensteinbeck
@The Dangerman:
This is WELL established to not be true. Trump has spent money and given up money for no reason other than to declare how much he hates blacks in the past. He spends much more time and effort coming up with ways to torture minorities than he does embezzling the US treasury. They are greedy, corrupt fucks, absolutely. Hugely so. But they are also sadistic, genocidal white supremacists. This isn’t a cynical ploy, it’s their belief system.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@FlyingToaster:
That’s what I just fucking said I’m not doing anymore. Can you read?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Major Major Major Major:
Tell you what, By late January of next year, I’ll send you what I have written to prove it to you. How does that sound?
Chetan Murthy
@satby:
Ha! No, I didn’t mean that as the thrust of my point. I -do- believe that the right path is to bring in a shit-ton of immigrants and swamp these fuckers out.
WaterGirl
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: No one likes to be mocked, especially to be mocked publicly.
But at some point in your life you are going to figure out that you can’t make other people think or act or treat you the way would like them to — and I think you’ll be happier if you can accept that unpleasant fact sooner rather than later.
One more piece of advice. If multiple people describe you as whining, you might want to step back, take that in, and consider that even if you aren’t intending to whine… you are coming off as whiny.
If multiple people are saying that they are tired of answering your questions because you don’t seem to be listening, it would probably be good for you to take a step back and take that in, too. If your first response is to say “I’m not doing that” or “I’m not like that”, you’re not doing yourself any favors.
FlyingToaster
@satby: The problem with de-Nazification is that it has to start with Nuremberg Trials.
I don’t see any peaceful way out of this. It’s gonna be this peck, peck, peck “low intensity conflict”, 2 or 10 or 20 at a time, with the cops more worried about Black Bloc than the Proud Boys or KKK.
WaterGirl
@Corner Stone: On a good day, I like to think I am kind, too, but right now if he were a puppy Goku would be going in the crate, and if he were a toddler I would be saying “okay, it’s time for bed”.
edit: was -> were
Major Major Major Major
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: I’ll allow it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I will count no unhatched chickens
I will count no unhatched chickens
I will count no unhatched chickens…
WaterGirl
@satby: That’s pretty amazing formatting — pretty sure you couldn’t reproduce that if you tried! I would love to see what the code actually was, but we will never know.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: “if it’s everyone else, maybe it’s you” is also a wonderful lesson to learn.
Chetan Murthy
@FlyingToaster:
I’ve often wondered why cities with Blue governments don’t hire more minorities into the police force, specificaly to counteract this white supremacist thing ….. [that was a rhetorical question, no need to answer it]
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@opiejeanne:
I wasn’t just going to let so blatant an attack on me go without a reponse.
FlyingToaster
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Dude, you’re digging yourself in deeper.
Walk the fuck away, tonight. Stay away until, oh, Wednesday. Don’t even lurk.
And I’m ordering you about because I’ve seen you do the same act here, at the same time o night, for going on a month, and even I’m sick of the drama llama act.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: the tag that should be closing the end of goku’s quote is an open-blockquote tag. They’re both unclosed, I guess WP takes care of that at least.
Ithink
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
I’m ambivalent about the article and the book itself from what synopsis I’ve encountered about it but we seriously need to stop pretending like any faults of the so-called Left or progressive movements in America are in any way comparable to the revaunchist reich incidentally installed by way of the Electoral College. Besides how to get their asses re-elected (i.e. the Democrats!)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: If I were you, I’d spend the time on getting your degree and passing your boards. The kid just got back from 2 1/2 weeks in Australia and New Zealand.
Ruckus
@opiejeanne:
I laid this on him very thick, but in a relatively nice way the other night. He even asked questions. But, I don’t think it meant anything. A bunch of people have told him, step by step, nothing.
So I’m done, you can help someone who actually wants help, you can’t help a closed mind, no matter where that closed mind sits.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: How’s the move coming? Last I heard, the movers were on the way.
NotMax
@TS (the original)
And Crosby.
:)
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, I thought about including the old joke:
They say you can get kind of crabby when you’re on a diet, but I’m doing fine — but my friends are all being really obnoxious.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: I’m homeless it’s awesome. Will be living out of two suitcases for a couple months. Currently staying with a friend. ETA we get to the sublet in the middle of the month; first we have a vacation that leaves from SF to take.
Move went fine I guess. Now we’re trying to figure out how the hell our taxes work.
FlyingToaster
@Chetan Murthy: What’s weird, is that they DO hire more women and minorities. Who then join the thin Blue Line. Which sees “leftist” as more dangerous than “rightist” even though we don’t fucking carry guns.
I think the problem is that I’m inside the People’s Republic, where at least our cops don’t shoot people for being black. They still stop them for driving while black (which municipalities forgo MY shopping dollars), and pull-over and stop-n-frisk never went away.
But most of the hierarchy is legacy: dad, grandad, uncle, cousin. And they’re white, and feel entitled to that badge, and to be racist if they like, and to be bullies if they like. Which sucks.
Major Major Major Major
@FlyingToaster: I wanna say the SFPD tries to hire for diversity. Conversely there are white supremacist groups actively trying to install a bunch of people in various police forces.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, someone was describing how to do a link the other day, and I was really surprised to hear “Click link, then type what you want to link, then click link again.” Yikes. I type whatever I want, highlight the part I want linked, and then hit link. So much simpler.
Maybe satby was doing something similar with the quote button? Clicking quote, then pasting what you want to quote, then hitting quote again?
opiejeanne
@satby: I have some apple pie made from our own apples. Two pieces left.
FlyingToaster
@Major Major Major Major: It’s no longer just organized crime trying to place “their” cops in the system, eh?
And Whitey Bulger is roasting in hell. Even if there isn’t one.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@WaterGirl:
Those aren’t exactly lessons I didn’t already know about, intellectually at least.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: So where is all your stuff?? Also, is that supposed to be SF to Tahoe? Is all your husband’s stuff moved, also? Is he living out of suitcases, also, or is he homeless with you in NYC, as well?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@FlyingToaster:
What’s wrong with the comment you linked to?
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Seem to recall something about heading to someplace – – where was it? Oh yeah, rhymes with Shmawaii.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: theoretically the button remembers whether the next click should be an opener or a closer.
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: there’s knowing and then there’s knowing, yknow? Anyway stop being annoying intentionally. (Fwiw I think the original question you posed today is worth discussing and complicated enough to be worth asking about in the comments! I think I agree with the article. I’d read it previously. But as others here have said it’ll be easy to wait and see how it shakes out.)
Amir Khalid
@FlyingToaster:
@Ruckus:
Not the Roman emperor, but the ex-commenter whose nym was Little Boots.
Ithink
@Corner Stone:
I’m honestly there with her too; she may in fact have significantly different political leanings than her irredeemable fuckwad of a husband but the fact that she seems ever bit as aloof and yet self-obsessed as he is the few times she does speak out on her own just makes me ill as awful as everything else we’re going through right now is; she’s un uber narcissist as well, simply put…just a more resolutely silent 1!
opiejeanne
@Ruckus: I know. I saw what you wrote and thought it was excellent advice. I said something similar later in the thread but before I saw your remarks.
Ruckus
@opiejeanne:
A short story has to have the same parts as a 50,000 word novel, a beginning, a middle and an end. But you have to develop the story much quicker and reach a reasonable conclusion at that same speed. I think it’s harder to figure out what to leave out than what to add in. Use 1500 words to describe your novel character, no problem. That might be a third to half your short story.
WaterGirl
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: What I am suggesting is that you move past the intellectual understanding and do the hard work of actually trying to apply that to real life.
If you meant to write a comment that was dismissive of my attempt to give you some tools to process the obviously uncomfortable situation you are in, then your reply was great.
Pro tip: If you didn’t intend to be dismissive, you might try something like “I know that stuff, but I’m having a hard time putting it into action. Thanks for taking the time to write that; it’s a good reminder for me.”
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: I am homeless in SF and he is with his parents down south a bit. Then we go to Hawaii from SFO, then to NY, where we have rented a room. Our stuff is in storage in Throggs Neck or something.
Chetan Murthy
Nice time! WATCH: Driver boots racist woman off bus over vicious attack on pregnant indigenous woman
Ithink
@Major Major Major Major:
Why did you guys have to move and for how long, if you don’t mind me asking?
Major Major Major Major
@Ruckus:
A what now?
FlyingToaster
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Read what I said. It’s not one comment, it’s every damn comment, and it’s time for you to go do something else.
You’re not six years old, and the “I’m just asking questions” bullshit is over. You’ve asked, you’ve been answered, repeatedly, and you don’t understand. This is the wrong place for you to be asking the same fucking questions over and over again.
Go away and think for a while. Quit being a pest.
Major Major Major Major
@Ithink: we are moving to New York voluntarily! But this vacation + New York rental market == some slightly unorthodox scheduling and such.
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: In college, it was much easier to write a 10-page or even 20-page paper than it was to write the 2-page paper. For a 2-pager, you had to go back and edit out all the repetition and make sure that what you had left all substance, no bullshit.
I know it’s not the same process as writing a short story vs. a novel, but I can easily see that it would be much trickier to write a short story.
divF
@opiejeanne: Re: length of fiction. I was telling the nephew the joke about how if Ace had published the Bible as an Ace Double, the Old and New Testaments would have been cut down to 20,000 words each, and given the titles Master of Chaos and The Thing with Three Souls. He didn’t get the part about cutting the size down. Nowadays science fiction and fantasy houses publish works that suffer from severe bloat, and are still financially successful.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@eemom:
Maybe that’s what I should do honestly.@opiejeanne:
Thank you for your advice. Honestly. I try to listen.
That whole “I’ll just never talk about my writing again” thing was just a reaction I had to that pie comment you made. I never want to piss anyone off enough for them to pie me.
opiejeanne
@Major Major Major Major: What? Do you think that’s too high, or too low a word count?
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: “if I had more time I would have written a shorter letter” and whatnot.
Short stories are more craft-intensive than novels, where you can afford to be sloppier.
Amir Khalid
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Corner Stone is something of a provocateur. The more you let him get your goat, the more he’ll do it. Bringing up a past slight and demanding an apology is effectively admitting that he got your goat that time and he’s still got your goat. It encourages him, which is the exact opposite of what you want. If you want him to stop, ignore him or laugh him off.
I agree with the consensus that you could better use much of the time you spend here on either your studies or your writing, or both.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Wow, I am way behind on this. I thought you had already started your job in NYC and were living there or staying with a friend there. I take it your husband doesn’t have a job in NYC yet? Hawaii sounds lovely!
Ithink
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
WTH happened or was said for you to be @ each others throats like you are? This blog is usually such a happy place even when we vehemently disagree with each other on specific policies or individuals!
opiejeanne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: I eventually un-pied TenguPhule, so don’t take it too seriously if someone does.
And I’d like to volunteer to read what you have written, just like MX4.
WaterGirl
@FlyingToaster: Raising a puppy can really try your patience.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major:
I had never heard that. I like it!
WaterGirl
@opiejeanne: I just re-pied TP after my whole pie list was wiped out.
opiejeanne
@Ithink: Lol! yes, we are such a kind and loving bunch all the time.
I know that the looming Election Day and the constant drumbeat of Dems in Disarray! from the FTFNYT and other sources is making me really tense right now, so I’d imagine it’s having some effect on others here.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
At least your stuff will have a nice view. (Photo is looking from the Bronx at bottom to Queens at top.)
That little community on the Bronx-side spit of land in the photo? Used to have friends who rented a house there. Quiet little oasis, but without a car forget about getting anywhere else.
Major Major Major Major
@opiejeanne: well that’s what, maybe 200 pages, if you do space-and-a-half? I’ve always heard it as the floor for the form’s size but even so a 50k novel would be a “short novel” by my reckoning.
And in sci-fi/fantasy I’m pretty sure there are novellas that long, but that’s a different rant.
opiejeanne
@WaterGirl: Yeah, I’m teetering on the brink with him right now, but there’s one person who comes off as a troll that I’m going to put back in the pie cabinet. Sometimes I read what he says but it’s a reminder not to take the bait and answer him.
frosty
@Chetan Murthy: Pittsburgh has. They celebrated the diversity of the 2017 Police Academy graduates. Their captain was a Vietnamese-American.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@FlyingToaster:
@Amir Khalid:
I actually like spending time here. So here’s what I’m going to do: I’m going to stop asking the same questions over and over again. How does that sound?
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: it’s one of those quotes that was somehow first said by Benjamin Franklin, Mark Twain, Churchill, and Groucho Marx!
Steeplejack
Just watched my computer clock roll over from 1:59:59 to 1:00:00. Yee-haw.
FlyingToaster
@WaterGirl: I have an 11-year-old, who stopped this shit when she was 8.
Of course, I had the advantage of knowing that she’s a musician, and therefore all of the lessons learned from music:
There are no shortcuts; then only way this work gets done is if you sit down and do it.
You have to practice every fucking day.
You’re going to make mistakes, that’s part of what is called “learning”. But making the same damn mistake over and over again means that you damn well aren’t learning, are you?
And other songs from the same hymnal.
[I did some manual formatting, since I can’t edit on WP these days. Mac OSX High Sierra, Firefox latest, NoScript Ghostery CookieBro Disconnect. If it sucks, shoot me AFTER you shoot WordPress, please.]
opiejeanne
@Major Major Major Major: Ah, thanks. Mine’s probably going to be pushing 100k, and I panicked because it seems to be overlong (I can jettison a couple of chunks that are fun but aren’t necessary for the story line) but it’s an historical novel so that may be a fairly normal size.
NaNoWriMo’s 30 day project is to write a novel in November, and the length is a minimum of 50k, and I completed the task last year and was shocked that I wasn’t even nearly finished.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@opiejeanne:
I did as well.
Major Major Major Major
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: you’ve asked that question several times this week during this exact discussion!
@opiejeanne:
Shit, I’m barely even here any more, I just can’t until the election’s over. Different strokes.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Haven’t written the great american (or the worst one) novel but I had to publish 5 separate rule books every year at my last job as well as rule updates and explanations. You have to be concise, your words have to make logical sense to the vast majority of readers and you have to use as few words as possible. Any one who has seen my comments understands how hard that is for me. I’m a never use 10 words when 20 will do sort. That didn’t work there and doesn’t work in short stories. Verbosity is a sin in a short story. Your description, all substance, no bullshit is spot on.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Bomb threat at Synagogue in Anaheim. No bomb found.
NotMax
@Amir Khalid et al.
In tonight’s performance of The Protocols of the Elders of Pieing, the part of Ernest, the naif will be played by Goku.
:)
FlyingToaster
@Major Major Major Major: In SF and fantasy, novellas average out at 40K. So 50K would almost certainly be expected to go in the “novella” slot.
Major Major Major Major
@opiejeanne: the “Eels” draft you read was around 100, and will probably be closer to 85 when it’s done, which is probably about where most novels land these days. Some genres tend to the longer (historical, SFF, romance I think), some the shorter (“literary”).
Corner Stone
@Amir Khalid: You have completely missed what is going on here.
Major Major Major Major
Short stories should be either 3,000 or 6,000 words long. Fight me.
Amir Khalid
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
You might need to recognise that certain other things in your life require more of your time than they get now.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack: You sure do lead an exciting life.
PIGL
@opiejeanne: I believe she’s from Slovenia. I’ve got friends from there, and did a bit of reading on it. it seems like a lovely little country; Austria meet the Adriatic. I say the best thing is to keep her Safely in the USA where she’s probably already done all the harm she can …. I mean what’s Slovenia ever done to you?
FlyingToaster
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: You’re not listening. You need to go apply what you’ve been told and come back with the questions you’ll have from things not working.
Trying the same thing, or asking the same questions, over and over again and expecting different results … is insane.
I’m giving up on you; welcome to my pie filter.
FlyingToaster
@Major Major Major Major: I’m sending Dead Harlan Ellison in as my champion. They can be 10,000 words, so long as you need every fucking one of them.
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: I used to work for a man who liked to say “Why say a word when a paragraph will do?” He would say that in a humorous way, but it was a very accurate description.
He was a good boss, though.
Major Major Major Major
@FlyingToaster: should != must, there are always exceptions, let us not forget that Joyce’s The Dead is 15,000 words.
WaterGirl
@Corner Stone: And Amir should count his blessings. Lucky bastard!
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Blaise Pascal is credited with that in 1656.
A bunch of others have used it since.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: That must be one of those regional dialect things. Here we would say “bite me”, not “fight me”.
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: I need to get out more.
Amir Khalid
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
As people in this thread have mentioned, that is exactly what ticks people off, so QUIT DOING IT.
Major Major Major Major
@Major Major Major Major:
“Flash fiction” nowadays, I suppose.
Corner Stone
@WaterGirl: Amir is a gentle and generally kind soul. But he is not excused from being bug fucking wrong once in a while.
He is here.
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
Just using the number as a comparison to the later use of 1500 words.
As I said, not a novelist. I have ideas and a start on one but it’s on/off switch falls way to easily to butt, given all that I’ve been through the last 6-8 yrs.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Had Joyce written for fortune cookies, one would have been enough to feed a hamlet.
FlyingToaster
@Major Major Major Major: And Joyce needed every last one of them.
It’s been 40 years since my HS Short Stories class (where Ellison and Dick were our examples for SF&F), and while we were often quoted the “3K or 6K” rule of thumb, it was in no way seen as a hard and fast rule. With the drop in print mags, it’s now common to see much longer novellas than the old “20K for a novella” expectation.
PIGL
@Frankensteinbeck: I do not think you are exaggerating. If Trump is not an actual down right Nazi, he’s the next thing to it; He is deliberately provoking terroristic violence against his political opponents which is just about everybody. If the existing laws were fully applied, he’d probably be in Gitmo.
Amir Khalid
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
She can read. A week from now, will you remember what you just wrote?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Amir Khalid:
Um, yeah, I’ve acknowledged that now. And I’m going to stop doing it.
Corner Stone
This is simple. A troll keeps trolling this blogsite. It’s the same troll. That’s it. That is all.
WaterGirl
@Frankensteinbeck: Maybe what they really want is power? Money gets you that, as so does the ability to cause people to be killed. Just a late night though.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
Always nice to have a laugh late in the evening.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Amir Khalid:
Probably not, as I’ll have probably blown my brains out by then //
Of course I’ll remember. I’m making an effort to.
And with all due respect you don’t know me. You don’t know what I do with my time outside of what I tell you. I’m doing just fine.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@NotMax:
Please don’t do that.
Steeplejack
@Major Major Major Major:
I remember the hilarious days when someone’s unclosed italics would cause every subsequent comment to be in italics until a front-pager stepped in to correct things. Good times.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Corner Stone:
Oh, so I’ve been trolling this blog for the past year and a half? That would be news to me.
Ruckus
@Corner Stone:
I think you may have it.
Not the sort of troll we are used to but the need for attention is basically the same. I always wonder if there is something behind the curtain, a cause for it.
Amir Khalid
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
And of course we go by what you tell us. What you consistently tell us is that you don’t have enough time for both studies and writing.
Amir Khalid
@Ruckus:
At times he does remind me a bit of Caligula.
Major Major Major Major
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: alright, settle down now.
@FlyingToaster: I know rules of thumb are just that, but I honestly believe that they’re the right lengths for the form. I read slush, and most of the stories would benefit from being one or the other.
[Extended analogy to tv episode length deleted]
FlyingToaster
@Amir Khalid: Really? I’ve never seen him demand that we all have a single neck, so that he could slit it…
And, thank goodness, he’s not the great-nephew of a tyrant. Or is he…
Steeplejack
Oh, c’mon! I thought FYWP had fixed the problem of putting Daylight Saving Time comments out of order. Sigh. But I guess it’s not a huge problem since it happens in the middle of the night.
FlyingToaster
@Major Major Major Major: I owned The Glass Teat and The Other Glass Teat, I know what you mean about tv episode length without further explication.
Doesn’t keep certain parties in this household from complaining that Doctor Who is running 10 minutes too long… sigh.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
Not sure I follow but then I’m not conversant in Caligula.
Major Major Major Major
@Steeplejack: ugh, web development and time zones. Glad I’m not on call.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
If you mean use the pie filter, not to worry. Couldn’t even if I were inclined to do so (which am not) as I keep Javascript turned off as my default for web surfing. Thus no filter, no edit function, etc. here, ever.
Also no Facebook, no Twitter (two distinct pluses).
Robert Sneddon
@Ruckus: Ummm, no. A novel, whether 50,000 words or 150,000 words has a three-act structure (set scenario and introduce characters, put them through Hell, resolve the situation) whereas a short story is a single vignette where everything happens at once. Shorts are not easier to write than novels but are usually easier to finish since the end is usually in sight when you start typing. At best with a novel you can see clearly to the end of the first act, the rest is jelly and unset, subject to sudden revelations and changes of heart by yourself and, if the Gods will it, the characters themselves who occasionally gain enough agency to not stay on the rails you put them on.
FlyingToaster
Okay, I’ve re-set the 1st floor clocks, plus WarriorGirl’s; the basement and remainder of the 2nd can wait until morning.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
No javascript whatsoever.
That’s an interesting concept. When I used FF I had it turned off and that helped a lot. Use Safari now and have it’s use limited and have only run across a couple of things that won’t work. No loss for sure.
What do you have against it, other than it sucks and makes many things slower and unstable?
Amir Khalid
@FlyingToaster:
@Ruckus:
I mean the ex-commenter whose nym was Little Boots.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Ruckus:
I’m not a troll and I’m so sorry I’ve annoyed you and others. I think a break of a few days is apparently in order. If I’m reminding people of fucking Little Boots, that psycho stalker who harassed Omnes, I’ve done something wrong.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Amir Khalid:
Which is why I’m not writing. I still have time to pop in here a few times a day. And more on days I don’t have classes.
NotMax
@Ruckus
Replication for entertainment purposes only of four examples follows:
Shall refrain from replication of any of his much less savory outbursts.
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
100K is normal for a historical novel, and you can even do 120 or 150K. A “mainstream” (set in present day) novel is usually around 80-85K, though there are no hard and fast rules.
Ruckus
@Robert Sneddon:
A short story has to cover less ground, yes. But it has to do so in way less time and way more directly. Yes it helps that your ending is probably known or at least outlined before you start but the trip is shorter and has to make it’s most likely single point faster, while the novel has time and twists and turns to go through to get to the end, which, as you say you probably don’t even know when you start typing. For most people taking out the superfluous bits and extraneous twists and turns and getting to the meat so quickly is harder. YMMV.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@NotMax:
Not saying you’re saying I’m like that, but I have never been that bad. I remember when I used to lurk here, I saw that shit. That person was crazy.
“I’m so sorry omnes”
“I’m so sorry omnes”
Every comment from them on a thread was like that.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
Ahhh yes, I was going in a different direction. Along the lines of @FlyingToaster:
NotMax
@Ruckus
Just the way have always rolled. There are a bare handful of sites I frequent for which I have to temporarily enable some of the scripting there, but have never found having to take two seconds to do so for only one site (at a time) burdensome.
Also a habit of long standing is to web surf with images turned off. Purely personal peccadillo.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
How does porn work with images turned off? What would be the point of having it in the first place?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Worst part was is that he and Omnes both live in the same city.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus: Heh, you got there first.
NotMax
@Ruckus
Notice I said a habit, not a rule.
;)
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: the genres where you have to describe more stuff tend to have longer entries.
Steeplejack
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s so stupid because unnecessary. There’s no need to index the comments by time stamp, because as records are added to a data table they are by default in chronological order. The time stamp is little more than a label, in that sense. Once again FYWP complicates things needlessly.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
I’ve come to a realization. I’m an asshole and a loser and I’m going to die alone, I know it. The only people who apparently can stand to be around me are my parents and they’ll be dead in 25-30 yrs, after that I’ll have no one. I honestly don’t know why I fucking bother. The longer people get to know me the less they like me it seems. I never learn and seem incapable of it, as evidenced by the reactions here. I don’t know how to fix it.
I’ve already alienated a bunch of people here and I didn’t even fucking mean to. I’m such a piece of shit.
NotMax
re: short stories as discussed above.
Although fairly dripping with allegory, insofar as draughtmanship and form are concerned have always found Nathaniel Hawthorne’s short stories to merit study. If had to choose just one, it would be Rappaccini’s Daughter.
A totally different genre which also found helpful as examples of terse, tight writing was reading through collections of scripts of radio plays. Not all that easy to find, however do remember a collection (maybe more than one?) of the radio work of Arch Oboler.
Major Major Major Major
@Steeplejack:
https://dba.stackexchange.com/questions/6051/what-is-the-default-order-of-records-for-a-select-statement-in-mysql
ETA I guess there’s always order by id, but I wanna say I’ve run into trouble with that before. But nothing’s perfect, even SQL!
Steeplejack
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Are you sure about your parents?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Steeplejack:
I guess you hate me too, huh? That’s fine. I guess you’re right. Nobody actually gives a shit about me or what happens to me.
Major Major Major Major
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: stop being a drama queen.
Amir Khalid
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
You remind me only a little of how that unlamented nutcase pestered Omnes, and you don’t seem likely to do anything like his worst (i.e. drop a C-bomb on a commenter and then refuse to apologise directly to her.) But I think you understand now why the less sympathetic might reckon your behaviour has at least a slight taste of trollishness.
Mnemosyne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Your school offers free or sliding-scale therapy. Call them and make an appointment on Monday. You are looking for something that strangers on the internet will never be able to provide.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
You’re the only you there is. And that is a Good Thing. Energetic and rambunctious. How you play the hand you’ve been dealt is the nitty-gritty.
Side note: look before you leap is not just a proverb meant to be sewn onto a sampler.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Major Major Major Major:
That’s how I’m feeling right now. I’m not in a good place. All of that’s fucking true. Sure my parents love me. They’re my parents after all. But that stuff about people not liking me after a while? That’s 100% true. This thread is evidence of that.
Major Major Major Major
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: see @Mnemosyne above
Ladyraxterinok
@satby: Wasn’t it the Allies who ran the de-nazification process, NOT the Germans?
Steeplejack
@Major Major Major Major:
I have yet to see an implementation in “the SQL world” where records in an “unordered” table are not returned in the order in which they were added to the table. Trust but verify, of course.
Major Major Major Major
@Steeplejack: i believe I’ve seen it cause transient errors in large test suites that build & tear down a lot of databases.
Tangent, Go intentionally scrambles its associative arrays so you don’t forget they’re not guaranteed-consistently-ordered. That’s cute.
Chetan Murthy
@Steeplejack: That may be true, but it’s a mos’def “crash landing” to not specify ordering, if the querying application relies on it. And the minute you introduce -any- sort of joins, you most assured aren’t going to get guarantees — b/c hash joins are, well, implemented by hashing.
By “crash landing” I mean that it’s one of those things that would be disqualifying in a job applicant. Seriously, M4 is *absolutely* right, that one’s mental model of SQL should always be that tables are unordered — heck, that all relations are unordered — unless an ORDER BY is specified.
Steeplejack
@Major Major Major Major, @Chetan Murthy:
Fine, then perhaps FYWP should order comments by “record number” (or equivalent), since twice a year the time stamp field proves itself useless for chronological ordering.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Mnemosyne: @Major Major Major Major:
@NotMax:
I don’t think that will be necessary. I’m honestly ok. I was (and still am) very upset and confused about the reactions I got because they seemed to come out of left field, almost. I mean, the last few weeks or so, in retrospect, I could see signs of it, but I had no idea people had felt that way for months. I just never saw it.
When FlyingToaster pied me, I couldn’t understand why. I’d just said I’d take their advice. And then Ruckus agreed with CS that I was a troll and that really hurt. Someone I’d been cordial and friendly with had turned on me. That’s what partly put me in this dark place and why I said what I said.
I have a hard time getting close to people and always have. I suppose I’m a reserved loner by nature around most people. I think I just have a hard time maintaining relationships with others.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Steeplejack:
I’m so glad you’re concerned about my well-being.
Ohio Mom
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: This is why people should be asleep at two in the morning. Hardly anything good happens at this hour.
Go to sleep — things will probably look better in daylight. If you remain so unhappy, try counseling.
I often think everyone should have a run of therapy in their twenties, to exorcise the baggage that comes from childhood. Children don’t have insight; they misinterpret things, frequently blame themselves for things they had no control over. Dysfunctional patterns and beliefs get set.
With the wise guidance a therapist can provide, young adults can use the perspective and judgement they have developed with their recent maturity to look at their lives somewhat objectively. That can lead to positive changes in their life trajectory.
That’s enough pontificating.
You haven’t alienated me.
Chetan Murthy
@Steeplejack: ehh, unless FYWP is not using TIMESTAMP (which would be a bug), all is well:From the Mysql manual:
It’s only marginally less-good than Unix, where the time is stored in seconds-since-the-epoch (1970) and converted to the local timezone on-demand.
Barbara
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: This blog is a loose collection of politically like minded people who mostly use it to blow off steam. I say this seriously, if you need it to be more than that you need to figure out how to get that IRL.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Chetan Murthy:
I wasn’t referring specifically to the formal TIMESTAMP. I was using “time stamp” to refer to whatever misbegotten bullshit the FYWP database uses. I suspect it’s just a string of some sort. But I’m not willing to go look at this late hour.
opiejeanne
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Go to bed.
Ohio Mom
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Also, are you still in school and still at the grocery job? You haven’t mentioned either in a while.
Really, lots of people flounder in their twenties. It takes a while to find one’s footing.
Major Major Major Major
@Steeplejack (phone): you would be correct https://codex.wordpress.org/Class_Reference/WP_Post
NotMax
@Steeplejack – @Chetan Murthy – @Major Major Major Major
I love the smell of nerdpalm in the morning.
:)
Steeplejack (phone)
@NotMax:
That’s the smell of sawdust being sawed into finer sawdust.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Ohio Mom:
I’m still at both. They’re going ok right now.
My real problem is my personality. I’m too serious, intense, and I tend to argue. I can be pretty domineering, especially when it comes to politics/what I consider right vs wrong. I can agree to disagree with someone on liking a movie or something but not something so fundamental as my moral compass. On top of that I think I have difficulties relating to other people. I get by easily in non-intimate social situations. My relationships with others, aside from family, seem to be mostly superficial because I don’t often put myself “out there” enough.
Ruckus
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
As others have said, seek help. It’s there, it works. Take advantage of it.
It’s not about us, it’s about you. Most people here have been nice to you, you aren’t unlikeable. But there is obviously some stuff going on that you need to fix. We can’t do it for you, it just doesn’t work that way. Some of us have gotten help when we needed it, it works. Some of us have been providers of help to others. We understand but we can’t fulfill that space in your life, not in this type of communication. I’ve been on both sides of that couch, which is why I tried the other night to help you. I’ll relay this to you, I’m not in all that good of a place myself and have sought help once again. It’s not a sign of weakness or inability, it’s a sign of honesty to one’s self that one needs help on occasion, to see which road to go down.
So, I’m begging you, please get some professional counseling. I guarantee that it will help you to understand yourself better and to understand the rest of the world better. Please.
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Gee, thought that was wafting from the Roman Meal bread factory.
;)
Yoda Dog
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: (hugs) hang in there.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Insecurity, thy name is college.
Small consolation, I know. But still true.
Chetan Murthy
@Major Major Major Major: @Steeplejack (phone): Heh. Turns out, FYWP uses the Mysql builtin DATETIME. HA! Which is builtin, but DOES NOT correct for DST (per previous manual reference).
https://codex.wordpress.org/Database_Description#Table:_wp_comments
But I’d be willing to bet a beer that they use “comment_date_gmt” as an ordering key, which avoids the DST issue.
Hilarious.
Ohio Mom
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Glad to hear you are still in school, working toward your future. I’m going try to to get back to sleep, I’m signing off. See you later.
Amir Khalid
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
If so, it won’t hurt to have a mental-health professional confirm it. Either way, take Mnemosyne’s advice and make use of the help your university offers.
Dan B
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): It is easy to attack Goku. Therefore it will happen.
What does it accomplish? Does it shift our focus to what we want to achieve?
Okay, back to the big picture. We can do it. We must.
NobodySpecial
Way late to the convo, but I tried NaNoWriMo one year, got about 8k words in, and realized I’d never be happy trying to write books. If I do any writing, it’s typically microfiction of 1k words or less, usually under 500. Basically extended scenes. Those I can sort of do. I’m not GOOD at it, but it stays enjoyable at that length.
Dan B
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: I’ve been in worse places. Please take a step back. There are things you feel that may be essential, not necessarily to you, but you may feel the ripples back to you that will lead you to some avenues to explore.
Amir Khalid
@Corner Stone:
I hope you get around to reading this in the morning.
I did see what you did there, of course. But had I told Goku, “You had that coming to you”, he’d have no urge to listen to anything I said after that. The way he sees it (rightly or not), you are a persistent heckler. So I suggested he deal with you as one and ignore you — rather than continuing the argument which would cluttter up many a thread, or demanding an apology which he would never get.
RedDirtGirl
@Keith P.: That’s a metric fuck-ton of bad luck there. That sucks!
RedDirtGirl
@WaterGirl: Tee Hee.
Chris T.
@WaterGirl: I use that phrase a lot myself (except “post” or whatnot instead of “letter”)…
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Oh, c’mon, guys. Other genres have their own ideas, but short story/novelette/novella/novel lengths are fixed in SF/F.
Novel: >40,000 words
Novella: 17,500 – 40,000
Novelette: 7,500 – 17,500
Short Story: <7,500
Ithink
@FlyingToaster:
Wait, WHERE do you live @?
debbie
@A Ghost To Most:
Not just Nazis anymore. I just listened to Israel’s leaders defend Trump’s language over American Jews’ objections to it. Nice to see you again, underside of the bus.
WaterGirl
@debbie: You know how it was amazing that two people like Barack and Michelle found each other?
It’s the same principle at work, except it’s evil, not good. Like finds like?
debbie
@WaterGirl:
This has gone on for decades. I think it was back in the 1980s when Israeli Jewish leaders pronounced that American Jews weren’t Jewish enough. This, even as they were happily raking in donations from them. Give us your money and just go away!
Ithink
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Please don’t say or believe things like this man; I’ve had too many people who have committed suicide after insinuating praying s*** like this. Come back and let us know you are okay after today/tonight!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
God damn these childish racist a-holes. Now I got to tell my gms in the on line rp I am doing to avoid the “88” in certian contexts. Seriously, these dorks need to get out of moma’s basement and get a job.
henqiguai
@Ithink(#272):
FT is in eastern MA, from comments in the past. I’m in north-central MA (a Boston bedroom community). There is a history of such serial service here in New England even in rural spots like this.
henqiguai
@debbie(#275):
Thought that was all about the definition of who/what was ‘Jewish’; Orthodox rabbis in Israel trying to define what was acceptable to them and therefore define ‘Jewish’ worldwide, and exclude a lot of the not-sufficiently-rabidly-conservative-enough American and western European Jews. I’m not Jewish and typically don’t care how the faithful define and/or govern themselves, but from what I followed of that argument I found, in a sad sort of way, mildly amusing. And ultimately self-destructive.
debbie
@henqiguai:
It was more than just belief; it was religious edict. It was asserted in connection with American Jews emigrating to Israel and whether or not their marriages would be recognized, etc.
henqiguai
@debbie(#280):
Yeah, I vaguely recall some of the controversy. Is it still a thing, or has some sort of accommodation to reality (and history) set in? Just haven’t seen anything about it in the very limited range of non-technical reading I’ve been doing the past couple years.
Elie
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Please please please get yourself some therapy. You are so hurting inside Please
debbie
@henqiguai:
Probably less noticeable because Judaism as a whole has become more conservative. But, yeah, if I went to Israel, I’m sure I’d get pushback for my liberal ways.
Platonailedit
Jeez, what a buncha
jackalsassholes triggered by the resident asshole.J R in WV
@The Dangerman:
You are correct about some of them, but many of them are creaming over the prospect of being able to kill some (whatever their favorite hated group is) people. For some those impulses will be racial, for others, religious, for others, immigrants of any flavor, no telling from outside which it will be.
That urge to kill is what makes this time so dangerous for the rest of us who don’t want to kill others. And way more dangerous for those who fit some wack job’s image of the “other”.
Uncle Cosmo
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: The authors of that piece (of shyt) are cordially invited to go Vox themselves with a rusty chainsaw. Give them 2 chainsaws & let them do each other simultaneously.
Srsly, we’re supposed to accord inhuman fuckheads like Buchanan (may he be roasting in hell even as I post) serious consideration when The Other Side loudly accuses anyone to the left of Genghis Khan of genocidal Stalinism? Like fuck we should.
Gvg
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: something to keep in mind, is that on the internet it’s very easy to get multiple responses to an ordinary question, so that it feels like a huge roar of snarling jackels. The responses are ALL magnified. The indifferent do not reply, so you always get only the big replies. The feeling of being piled on, can also make people resist accepting. Try imaging just a few people saying these things like in a smaller group of people.
I don’t think people hate you, I think you have some likable traits but also so annoying tics. If you weren’t somewhat likable, no one would have bothered to write so many long thoughtful answers to your questions. The problem is you keep ignoring all that work. That is kind of rude. It also reminds me of trying to help my ADHD nephew with his homework because he doesn’t pay attention and I get mad.
Anyway, you only need to correct a few things. Professional help saves time. Colleges actually have that help and actively tell you where to get it. After college, it’s hard to even find. They also like to give tests and measure responses.
Tehanu
@Suzanne:
I don’t want them “killed.” I want them legally and fairly tried, convicted, and executed — preferably, with their bodies hanged upside down in a public space a la Mussolini. Or perhaps we could borrow a guillotine from someplace. I’ve always wanted to learn to knit.
J R in WV
@NotMax:
Oh, now I remember who you’re talking about. Yech!
I wonder how long David Weber’s giant magnus novels are? And then the series runs to 12 of those 2 and 3 inch thick books… amazing amount of work!!!
boatboy_srq
Downeastah chiming in on a dead thread. King is the kind of Maine Republican that the GOTea left behind in its race Rightward. There are only two reasons to slam him for insufficient conservatism: Cult of Personality among the MAGAts, or plain old garden variety fascism.
cwmoss
@FlyingToaster: Um, I will interject here to point out that Ralph Ellison is generally not regarded as SFF. Is there another Ellison I’m not aware of?