Every time I see this nonsense argument I want to blow a fucking gasket. I just saw it again from some idiot on a friend’s fb page:
The “we can’t do anything about guns because the rurals need them for protection” is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever. It makes me absolutely insane with rage every time I see it.
No one is coming for Pappy’s shotgun. We’ve all fucking read In Cold Blood, fer fuck’s sake. We’re not talking about your deer rifle, your family heirloom 12 gauge, the revolver great great grandfather Cletus had from his time during the war of northern aggression, or the luger your great uncle got off a dead nazi in Bastogne. You will be allowed to have a weapon to protect your farmstead.
What we are talking about is trying to cut down on weapons with massive firepower that are more at home storming the beaches at Normandy than making sure no one is terrorizing you in your fucking doublewide. And it’s little things- closing gunshow loopholes, performing background checks, banning assault rifles.
Jesus tapdancing christ.
cain
How many times it was the gun that was stolen from their place?
Elizabelle
The ammosexuals are nervous.
They should be. Enough of this constant carnage.
Matt
Bonus hilarity: despite acknowledging how many times their home has been robbed out in the boonies, the poster probably believes “cities are cesspools of crime”.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Amen.
condorcet runner-up
a-fucking-men.
Radiumgirl
Amen.
Miss Bianca
It’s hard for me to believe it even as I type it, because I’ve been so close to despair so many times before on this gun mania, but for the first time I really feel like Dems may get somewhere if we just keep our heads down and keep plugging away at “the little things” like closing the gun show loopholes, mandatory background checks, etc. (I think the biggest one that would do the most immediate good is automatic, lifetime withdrawal of all legal gun privileges (sorry, “rights”) if you are convicted on a domestic violence or stalking charge, but that would be a Big One that would require a dramatic shift in public consciousness about the worth of women as human beings. But I digress).
I was going to say, “keep our heads down and our mouths shut, and do the work”, but then I read a rant like John’s and want to say, “more of this, please!”
Corner Stone
The RWNJs, and all their political consultants, are terrified of the idea that D’s could ever have a somewhat unified position on gun control. That’s why they continue to advise the D’s that gun control is the campaign killer, they should never mention guns and should just keep their mouth shut. While at the same time keeping the gun nut rhetoric at 11 so their voters stay single issue.
debbie
@Elizabelle:
“The wommins come to take your gunz!”
Yarrow
Likely good news on the gun control front that’s getting lost in the Florida recount story. This race is also being recounted but it look good for the Dem:
PeakVT
Sounds like his bit of Real America™ is full of deplorables. Go figure.
maurinsky
I grew up in a rural area, and we had no guns in the house. We left our doors unlocked all the time – in the summer, we only had screen doors. We left our car unlocked. Sometimes the windows were rolled down. A cat had a litter of kittens in our car when I was about 10.
Anyway. I thought people liked to live in rural areas because they think they are safer? I always hear about how you can let your kids run around outside without worrying about them. Now, the rural areas are so dangerous that you have to armed all the time?
Corner Stone
Even if this Matt Whitaker character never opened his mouth you just know he’s a complete dick at first sight.
dmsilev
If their parents’ house was robbed ‘so many times’ while the parents were at work, how would guns have helped with that? Are we talking the automated sentry guns from the director’s cut of Aliens?
mataliandy
@cain: Yep. It is unbelievably common for guns to be stolen. In our rural area of VT, it’s quite common to see news stories of yet another hunting camp being robbed, with all the guns stolen.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/gun-theft-us-firearm-survey
sukabi
@maurinsky: sure, when your neighbor is out of work and decides to cook and sell meth, it tends to bring in the crime.
mataliandy
@maurinsky: Our rural experience was the same. Though it’s important to lock the car during zucchini harvest season, or someone’s going to leave their extras in your car.
FlipYrWhig
So, everyone has guns in Rural America because… Rural America has so many guns? Isn’t that the technical definition of “begging the question”?
E@L
If they had all those guns for protection, how come they still were robbed? But, I thought… Oh forget it.
GregB
The rurals need them to prevent a crisis that has reached epidemic proportions. To shoot bears attacking schools.
JMG
It is common for firearms to be robbed in all of America, rural, suburban and urban. They are as fungible as cash or drugs, offering a near immediate return to the thief or thieves. That’s for handguns. Rifles and shotguns bring much less. So that gun in the nightstand is more likely to make you a crime victim, not less.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig:
Now you’ve done it!
Frankensteinbeck
We might be. I do think some exceptions should exist because of wild animals and hunting, but there are plenty of Democrats who would like even those to be carefully managed. I don’t think it’s the mainstream position, and we are so incredibly far from that now that it would take a long while to get there even without Republican interference. Progress tends to come in steps on any issue.
Yarrow
@Miss Bianca: My suggestion for some time has been to focus on the “responsible” part of “responsible gun owner.” The NRA loves to talk about responsible gun owners. Great! Let’s define what that is. Leaving your gun lying around loaded on the coffee table so your kid can find it and shoot another kid isn’t being responsible. If it falls out of your waistband and shoots you or someone else (here’s looking at you FBI guy dancing at the bar) that isn’t being responsible. Leaving it in your purse so your toddler can reach in, grab it, and terrorize everyone in the supermarket aisle isn’t being responsible.
If those types of things happen with your gun, then YOU are not being a Responsible Gun Owner. There need to be penalties akin to driving drunk. Points on your gun license. Going to remedial gun class. Extra wait times for purchasing guns. Higher insurance rates. Make people responsible for what they do. If they behave irresponsibly with their guns then there need to be consequences.
Corner Stone
@mataliandy:
I don’t live in VT so I’m not sure, but in my part of the woods (TX) we don’t leave guns in hunting cabins. In West and/or South TX hunting leases or ranches it’s quite common to leave the doors unlocked and have canned goods, blankets, candles, etc on the table in the kitchen area.
Yarrow
@dmsilev: It’s stupid to think that if a house was robbed they wouldn’t steal the guns.
zhena gogolia
You are such a good writer, John. You put the entire effing New York Times to shame.
trnc
The Constitution is explicit about a presidents power over the militia. Next Dem needs to call all gun humpers to duty and send to Iraq or other out post.
Litlebritdifrnt
I hate guns. Always have. I was useless with them. When 707 Squadron went to Castlemartin for weapons training I was miserable. I sliced my fingers open trying to cock a 9mm, left the weapon covered in blood. I had to have a guy behind me propping up my shoulder when I fired a shotgun because the recoil would put me on my arse. I couldn’t even hold the barrel of the machine gun up and ended up shooting a really nice hole in the ground about three feet in front of me. The Royal Marines who were training us realized that I was just a lost cause. The only thing I excelled at was positioning plastic explosive on a tank. I’m a bomber not a shooter apparently.
RSA
@Matt:
And many in his circle probably believe that city dwellers make trips to rural areas specifically to commit those robberies. SMH.
zhena gogolia
I hope you all saw this story out of Phoenix — “11-year-old shoots grandmother, kills self, after refusing to clean his room” —
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/04/mcso-11-year-old-shoots-grandmother-yvonne-woodard-before-killing-self/1887437002/
Somehow he was able to just pick up his grandfather’s weapon and kill his grandmother (and then himself) while she and her husband were watching television. I wonder how?
cain
@mataliandy:
First thing I would expect to be there and steal and sell on the black market after filing off the serial numbers. Imagine hitting the jackpot if it is a gun nut. I wouldn’t brag I had a ton of guns because I’m sure thieves would love to steal all of it while the owner is gone. Losing 50 guns would hurt.
Yarrow
@zhena gogolia: See my above comment about “Responsible Gun Owners.” The grandfather was not being a Responsible Gun Owner.
Litlebritdifrnt
Oh BTW did anyone else see this horseshit today? The VA is reauthorizing medical testing on dogs because WTF? The VA director said some mealy mouthed shit like “I love canines but we need to help the troops” What does medical testing on dogs have to do with helping the troops? I can’t even. This administration has got so fucking evil there is almost no bottom anymore.
Ella in New Mexico
My 83 year-old Dad reminds us all the time that when he was young, living in Upstate New York, in order to obtain anything other than shotguns or simple hunting rifles (handguns, semi-automatics, multiple rifles, etc) you had to apply, show need/rationale for the use of the gun, provide character references who were willing to vouch for you and appear in front of a local county or municipal judge who would then approve or disapprove your application. He easily passed and over the years owned many guns, and yet knew several who were not allowed to purchase them in NY because they didn’t pass the fitness test due to a history of legal arrest/violence, unstable behavior, or just couldn’t find character witnesses to vouch for them.
He never really was a hunter, after serving in the Korean war he lost all interest in that. He was a member of a gun club who regularly participated in target shooting competitions, was an NRA member when it was about responsible gun ownership, and always had his weapons unloaded and locked away from us when we were growing up. He taught me to shoot with a 9mm handgun at the range where safety and being a smart, responsible gun user were admired, not flashing around an AK like it was a giant penis. I felt honored to be seen as mature enough to be allowed to be there.
What I tell everyone who’s scared “they’re gonna come take my guns” is that we need to try responsible licensing first, and give it the same level of seriousness and respect we currently do to people who obtain concealed carry permits. At least in my state, CC holders have to attend classes, pass tests, and because of that go through some level of scrutiny that helps weed out the crazies from he sane responsible gun owners.
You wanna keep your collectors arsenal? Hold on to your AK or your precious SKS? Get the education, license, show you’re not fucking insane but are a “master gun owner” who enjoys owning and shooting guns, but cares about everyone’s safety and knows not everyone should own a gun. If you can’t do that, you’re not fit to own one.
cain
@zhena gogolia:
Jeezus, I think that kid has had other issues if he was willing to do a murder/suicide for just cleaning his room. There is no way he wouldn’t know what the consequences was.
SiubhanDuinne
@mataliandy:
“Take the gun. Leave the zucchini.”
cain
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Jeezus… dogs? What happened to just using mice/rats their genome sequence is more similar to humans than canines.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
That’s one danger they apparently didn’t foresee from having the NRA turn into a wing of the Republican Party. When Democratic candidates will never get an NRA endorsement no matter how favorable they are to guns, they’ve lost all reason to cooperate with the gun nuts.
JaySinWA
@Yarrow: It crossed my mind (and probably the policeman’s) that grandpa might be more directly responsible than his story admits.
Ella in New Mexico
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Since there are a lot more Federal and state laws now that prevent this now I’m not sure what the dude means. However, it’s a safe bet that because “They” want to destroy the public trust in the VA and get Americans to go along with privatizing it, telling a bunch of just now voting millennials that the VA tortures animals is part of their long game to interfere in 2020.
Keep that in mind with every thing these people do to destroy our faith in our institutions: if we think their corrupt, don’t work, or are outright committing evil it’s much easier to get rid of these institutions and their role in maintaining our social order.
Roger Moore
@maurinsky:
I think Arthur Conan Doyle had this just about right:
scav
@Litlebritdifrnt: Maybe they’re determined to develop a waterproof president? The current model seems as vulnerable as the Wicked Witch of the West (or whatever direction orange means). Presumably newts and frogs have also reason to be suddenly nervous.
zhena gogolia
@Roger Moore:
I love that passage.
trollhattan
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Hilarious. The whole thing but especially this bit: “I’m a bomber not a shooter apparently.”
Always work with your strengths.
TheOtherHank
The last time (and the time before, and the time before…) the topic of banning assault weapons came up in the national discourse there was the tiresome “You’re just trying to ban some guns based on the way they look.” rejoinder. So I thought about it for a minute or two and solved the problem. The problem with AR-15s and their kin is that they are semiautomatic and have detachable magazines (but so do other kinds of guns; what are you going to do about that libtard?).
So here’s TheOtherHank’s Gun Control Proposal: All semiautomatic guns are banned. All guns with detachable magazines are banned. A bounty will paid when you turn in your guns. Nobody is going to come seize your weapons, but if you are found in possession of a banned gun there will be serious legal penalty (I haven’t worked that part out yet. I’m open to suggestions).
You can shoot Bambi with a bolt action. You can protect your home with a revolver. But you can’t shoot 600 people in 10 minutes with them.
David Evans
@cain: And in terms of testing wound repair techniques, which is a plausible reason, I believe pig bodies are a better match for humans than dogs. A bit rough on the pigs.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Litlebritdifrnt: Wouldn’t let me edit so here is the link
https://www.wric.com/news/8-investigates/va-secretary-defends-dog-testing-plans-to-re-authorize-experiments/1584127235
Bostonian
It seems to me that two things would help us let Pappy have his peashooter unencumbered:
1. Ballistics testing on every gun. Results filed, gun registered, gun returned. In itself, this is not an impediment to keeping, or bearing.
2. All guns must be insured, just like all cars must be insured. No untested / unregistered gun can be insured. The insurance can reference the ballistics registration.
Actuaries would sort out the rest.
trollhattan
The Thousand Oaks mass-murdering asshole, a Marine vet, claimed another Marine vet during his selfish rampage: Daniel Manrique, 33, who also served in Afghanistan. Did he go on to murder following his service? He did not. He volunteered with Team Red, White and Blue, who work to help vets “avoid isolation.”
The victim who had survived Las Vegas was a Navy vet. Here’s what his mom had to say: “Here are my words: I want gun control. I don’t want prayers, I don’t want thoughts.”
We should listen to her and ignore the NRA. More vets should be able to have more Veterans Days. They shouldn’t be coming home to die in civilian “combat.”
trollhattan
@TheOtherHank:
I’m objectively on Team TheOtherHank. Sound recommendations, all.
Litlebritdifrnt
@David Evans:
According to the link they implant pacemakers and then run the dogs on treadmills until they die. I have no words.
Platonailedit
Them rural folks in other countries do not have the need or the urge to own guns for their safety. Guessing they all have one to one police protection?
Sirkowski
If you’re getting robbed that many times, how much of a deterrent is that gun…?
Ladyraxterinok
OT a bit. Just saw that Chatham Co, GA had no mail in ballots. Why?? PO Box number given for address was wrong. IMPT TO NOTE–Savannah is in this county. This jnfo was reported at democraticunderground today.
Frankensteinbeck
@Roger Moore:
The relevant element in American small towns is that the crime is rarely committed by outsiders, and it’s more that abusers have absolute control over their victims. They want the power to define crime, and beating gays to death or the champion quarterback raping high school girls doesn’t count. This is a huge element of the rural/urban divide, because they hate that the larger society is more and more intruding on that power.
Litlebritdifrnt
Several years ago in Columbus County, NC. A white guy (responsible gun owner) was supposedly “cleaning his gun” in the living room at the front of his house. Meanwhile a bunch of black females (aunt, niece and cousin) were walking to their car to go shopping. The gun magically went off (never the fault of the gunowner dontcha know), and shot the Aunt (first) niece (second) and cousin (my husband’s student third). Aunt died, niece died and cousin was in hospital for weeks. Guy was never charged. Police decided it was “an unfortunate accident”.
scav
@Platonailedit: Them rural folks in other countries ain’t necessarily pee-pul, certainly not the important civlized christian salt of the earth greatness understanding sort, more the inherently evil breed that pose immanent threats when out walking thousands of miles away.
trollhattan
@Frankensteinbeck:
A whole lot of rural-living folks are there because they can’t/won’t behave around others. For that matter, some cohort of rural law enforcement are there because they couldn’t pass the tests (skills and psych) required by cities. Creates an interesting combination.
trollhattan
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Besides, “hadn’t he suffered enough already?”
Corner Stone
@Sirkowski:
It’s clear you know nothing about this issue. It’s not the guns fault that they were continually robbed. The owner clearly forgot to place the red rock at the end of the drive. You know, right beside the green rock that keeps dragons from attacking their house?
Juice Box
My mom grew up in a small farming town. When she was fourteen, a clumsy target shooter accidentally shot her not-quite twelve year old brother in the temple, killing him instantly. She’s 82 now and still angry about it.
Villago Delenda Est
The motherfucking facts are that ammosexuals do treat guns like toys.
Yes, they needed guns for protection from slave revolts
Assholes.
Villago Delenda Est
@SiubhanDuinne: I wish I could “like” this comment. You know, with the upfist. Instead of having to type like mad.
m.j.
It’s pure apocryphal bullshit. Whoever wrote it should be driving a taxi in New York.
Guns are a deterrent? Look, moron, the people you think you are protecting yourself against aren’t very thoughtful or great planners. Their actions are irrational. Rational people might worry about being shot. Irrational assholes, such as yourself, do not.
p.s.
Knock it off with the goddamned Dirty Harry fantasies already.
efgoldman
@Villago Delenda Est:
Worked, didn’t it?
Villago Delenda Est
@trollhattan: Thats’ not why we served in the first place. Veterans are supposed to be between the desolation of war and their homes, not smack dab in the middle of it.
Villago Delenda Est
@efgoldman: Nat Turner had a good run.
MagdaInBlack
I grew up outside a small farm town about 60 miles sw of Chicago. When we started getting the “white flight ” folks from the far west suburbs, we also saw crime rates and school problems increase. Yes, increased population, but…..they brought their problems, and their fears, with them.
Suzanne
To be fair, I do want to take rifles and shotguns and historic weapons from some of these people. Some people should never have any access to any kind of firearm.
Ol'Froth
@Yarrow: The great thing about being a member of The Responsible Gun Owners’ Club is its exclusivity. As soon as you do something irresponsibe with a firearm, you’re out of the Club, thereby maintaining the purity of the Responsible Gun Owners.
sdhays
@Ladyraxterinok: That’s just obscene. That level of “incompetence” should simply invalidate the election. The only way to stop this kind of shenanigans is to make the consequences painful and not rewarding.
MagdaInBlack
@MagdaInBlack:
ETA: and contrary to popular opinion, everyone in those rural areas knows everyone elses business. If theres a strange car in the driveway….it gets noticed. Those “robberies” are not that common.
Ol'froth
@TheOtherHank: WHat about bolt actions with a detachable magazine? Not joking, I have one. Its also 102 years old, so its not exactly modern =)
cain
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME?!!! I will give $1k into a major lawsuit that would do this to any creature. That’s just absolutely insanely brutal and horrific. Doesn’t that not break laws of some sort? I have words.. they are words of rage.
A Ghost To Most
@mataliandy:
In our neck of the woods, leaving your car unlocked is an invitation to bears to trash the interior. They know how to open car doors.
MomSense
@Litlebritdifrnt:
The GOP is just fucking evil. They will say anything if it helps their wealthy patrons. They lie and cheat to hold onto power. They are the most greedy, hateful, despicable people I’ve ever seen.
MomSense
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Jesus fucking Christ that makes me so furious. I hope there is a hell for the psychopaths who could do something so terrible.
cain
@Juice Box:
Fun fact. The epic Ramayana kinda started off like that. The king was out hunting and thought he heard an animal and let loose an arrow and it killed a young kid. The parents cursed him saying that he would know the pain of losing his son just like they lost his. The curse came into fruition when the King had to exile his son for 14 years. He died in sorrow pining for his son.
I’m not sure if it is great that curses come true in that world or not. It would definitely even the odds. I wonder if you could be sued legally for cursing someone.. grey legal area? :D
A Ghost To Most
@cain: Because it pisses PETA off.
cain
@MomSense:
No, we need to create a hell on earth. I’m not patient enough for them to kick off. Doxx these people and shame them anywhere they go.
CarolDuhart2
@TheOtherHank: Make it cost. Tax and fine and insurance. We probably are already paying for them through health insurance, life insurance payouts, disability and medical payouts for survivors and the incalculable mental health toll. But they don’t even pay a fraction of this. Unlike car owners who have insurance, pay fines for reckless operation and serve some time, they don’t have even have a toll assessed on their reckless behavior or on the victims they leave in their wake.
A Ghost To Most
@cain:
Only if I can sue every time I sneeze and some book beater says “bless you”.
A Ghost To Most
@Suzanne:
Who gets to decide?
Gvg
I have been thinking for some time, we need a points system like drivers license. We also need a society propaganda like MADD and anti smoking.
We need to authorize statistics being collected. That the gun lobby got that made illegal s proof of guilt IMO.
wasabi gasp
grewn wit a cache at r zombie stronghold, asshole.
Gvg
@A Ghost To Most: the judicial system. We make laws, watch how they work and tweak them to get better results.
It requires legislation first, yes.
CarolDuhart2
Even if you believe in the Second Amendment, there is no constitutional requirement to make it cheap and easy to own guns. Tax every bullet $1 to cover medical expenses of the shot. Tax every gun $10 to cover increased police costs. Tax credit for turned in weaponry. Liability insurance with a minimum of $100k. Right now society is absorbing the costs with no imput into decision-making. And no appreciation of that by gun nuts.
efgoldman
Pats geting crushed, Lot happy peple
C Stars
My brother, who is my polar opposite in almost every way, lives in a very remote place in Trump country. He loathes Trump and I think generally votes for Democrats (hence the “almost” in the previous sentence) but just doesn’t want to say a word about guns. He uses his guns frequently; the only meat his children get on a regular basis is deer or fish (from the lake, not from the grocery store). So, guns are partially his family’s livelihood. But there’s also a cultural/toxic masculinity element. Not having a gun (or two or three or four) would be almost like not being a functional human. Sort of like not having a pickup truck. And it’s inconceivable to him that they could be regulated in any way. There are gun accidents where he is too–people get accidentally shot (often on hunting trips), and he understands the horror of mass shootings. What’s interesting is his intentional avoidance: He just won’t talk about it–when I gently suggested recently that in order to avoid mass shootings we need to make rules that restrict access to some kinds of guns for some kinds of people he just opened his eyes wide and shook his head at me as though I was crazy, and said, in a shocked way, “well now, I don’t think THAT’S necessary” as though it was just a bridge way too far. And then changed the subject PDQ. It’s almost like he gets that it’s not logical but it’s a value so deeply embedded that even having a conversation about it would be utter sacrilege.
(Having said all this, I’m pretty sure he only owns hunting rifles; I don’t think he has a handgun but I’m not sure. And he’s not one of those dumbasses who displays his guns in his pickup truck etc.)
Suzanne
@A Ghost To Most:
Smart people, informed by data.
I don’t want a domestic abuser to have a hunting rifle. Or a drunk. Or someone who is depressed.
I found the proposal to take guns from anyone with a DUI to be interesting.
Adam L Silverman
@Frankensteinbeck: I give you Ambassador Sam Brownback’s brother:
https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/barbara-shelly/article30611604.html
TheOtherHank
@Ol’froth: No exceptions. You have to feed the rounds in one at a time. I haven’t quite worked out how I feel about speed loaders for revolvers.
Yutsano
So…we’re back?
Adam L Silverman
@Yutsano: Maybe we are, maybe we aren’t…
Another Scott
Nobody’s said “slippery slope” yet? I am disappoint.
Cheers,
Scott.
TheOtherHank
@CarolDuhart2: I’m on board with that. All guns allowed under TheOtherHank Gun Control Plan have to be insured and permitted (like a car).
I’m thinking that guns not allowed under the plan that aren’t turned in for the bounty should have a fine calculated like they do for traffic violations in Finland. There they calculate the fine based on ability to pay, so it’s set to hurt no matter if one is a ditch digger or multimillionaire. Something like that but for owning a semi-auto.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
He’s the kind of guy who deserves Rand Paul as a neighbor.
Platonailedit
Sinema’s lead is now over 30k. Surely this thing is in the bag now?
Ruckus
@JMG:
If your house is broken into aren’t you already a crime victim? Does the criminal know you have a gun in that nightstand? Or just assume so, seeing as most everyone does because, something…….
Corner Stone
@TheOtherHank:
A little problematic. Especially for bird hunting. And it means I have to put my beer down at some point, which I’m not a big fan of.
debbie
@efgoldman:
Are the balls too heavy today?
Achrachno
@Another Scott: slippery slope
Barbara
@Platonailedit: yes, but count all the votes because there is a really close race going on for state SOS as well that could flip.
rikyrah
Shaun King (@shaunking) Tweeted:
Hold up. Hold up. Stop EVERYTHING.
A sitting United States Senator, IN MISSISSIPPI just said “If he invited me to a public hanging I’d be on the front row.”
REALLY?
She just said this in the heart of lynching country.
SHE’S RUNNING AGAINST A BLACK MAN!
Unthinkable.
https://t.co/UTfKiVsF0P https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1061670703261466624?s=17
Achrachno
@Platonailedit: Yes, that appears very likely. Fingers crossed for FL & GA
Ruckus
@Litlebritdifrnt:
You are being way too kind. There is no almost about it. The race to the absolute bottom has been on for 2 yrs now. It’s like absolute zero, we may not be able to reach it but they sure are trying to find it.
cleek
i’d happily take all their guns, melt them and turn the slag into a huge sarcophagus into which i’d stuff anyone who had a problem with it.
Achrachno
@rikyrah: “Unthinkable” All too thinkable, unfortunately. Look who we’re talking about. Expected?
Ladyraxterinok
@Roger Moore: What story is this quote from?
efgoldman
@Ladyraxterinok:
“Asshole Morons in the Senate”
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
He’s talking about loading rounds into a tube magazine, not requiring only single-shot weapons. I don’t know of any bird hunter who needs a shotgun with a detachable magazine, and plenty of them seem to do OK with break action guns.
Another Scott
@Achrachno: I know!! You pass one law, well it necessarily follows that all the laws will be passed!! Eat your peas is exactly the same as indentured servitude!!11ONE
(sigh)
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Roger Moore
@Ladyraxterinok:
It’s from “The Adventure of the Copper Beeches”.
Gelfling 545
When we were lambasting my nephew for his foolish ideas on fire arms on FB last week he was whining abput Cuomo’s gun restriction policies. Finally somebody thought to ask. Brian, do you own an assault rifle? Well, no but someday he might want to. For? Protection. From? Thieves. Who might steal your assault rifle? Ummmm.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore: That is not my reading of his initial comment:
And not how I read his response to Ol Froth at #74.
Achrachno
@Another Scott: We already passed one gun law, several really, so following the slippery slope argument we must have already passed them all, long ago. They’re on the book, but no one knows?
Unless, of course, the slippery slope argument fails yet again.
Sorry if I was too cryptic. I just wanted to cure your attack of disappointment.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
He said no semi-automatic guns and no guns with detachable magazines. That still leaves pump action shotguns with integral magazines, which are what most bird hunters use. His comment about loading rounds one at a time was in the context of discussing speed loaders for revolvers, which makes me think he was talking about reloading non-removable magazines. I think there would need to be some discussion of cases like double action revolvers, which are like semi-automatic handguns in that they let you fire one round with each pull of the trigger without any additional action to cock the gun or chamber a new round.
Brickley Paiste
Clickbait, with a side of classism.
Matt McIrvin
I remember getting into one of these arguments, and one of the people involved was a guy who said he lived in rural Alaska, and had used his weapons some huge number of times to fend off intruders coming to invade his home. It sounded like it happened all the time to him, like he was in some neighborhood that was positively swarming with crazed meth-heads looking to do some violence to people who were at home at the time. Sounded awfully populated with criminals for some place out in the ass end of nowhere, and I wonder if this guy in fact basically started waving his gun around whenever anyone walked past his house.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore:
Well, which is it? The Remington 870 is a pump shotgun with an internal tube magazine and the Remington 1100 is a semi-automatic (self re-loading) with an internal tube magazine.
TOHanks’ comments come across to me as if single shot is what he is referring to.
Ladyraxterinok
@Roger Moore: Thanks
TheOtherHank
@Corner Stone: Fixed magazines are fine. You just have to rack the slide by hand. But to reload the gun you have to feed in the shells one at a time.
A Ghost To Most
@TheOtherHank:
I suggest we ban alcohol as well. It’s more responsible for bad behavior than any other human malady.
Raven
@A Ghost To Most: OK by me.
A Ghost To Most
@TheOtherHank:
How do you tie your shoes with a back that rigid?
A Ghost To Most
@Raven: Me too, but then they say “prohibition doesn’t work”, to which I say, exactly.
Ban assault weapons and large magazines.
Fix the conditions that are making people pop off. Try not to be as rigid and inflexible as the fascists are.
TheOtherHank
@A Ghost To Most: I am being flexible. Everybody can have guns. They can hunt, they can have a weapon for home protection. I’m just setting out two simple rules to define what kind of guns people can’t have. I don’t think people should have guns that shoot rapidly and that can be reloaded quickly. Those two features are what make things like Las Vegas possible. People can still pop off and kill others and themselves, they’ll just have a lot more trouble getting into double digits. And we avoid the stupid “What is an assault rifle?” hairsplitting.
A Ghost To Most
@TheOtherHank: You don’t sound very flexible. You sound like you are dictating terms. If I was able to dictate terms, I’d ban all public displays of religion. Religion causes more problems than guns do, though less than alcohol.
dimmsdale
One of the first things I hope the new Demo House does is set up a subcommittee to examine mass shootings (or maybe accidental shootings too, or maybe ALL shootings) from a mental-health and a public-health perspective; this would (I hope) bring out ALL the studies and papers that have been sat on by the NRA/GOP, and flesh them out with further research which would (again I hope) come up with a hierarchy of factors contributing to the lethality of American mass shootings. (I’m hoping that scientifically sourced findings would be harder to refute and would give sensible gun regulation a factual basis; and that the majority of gun owners who are NOT sick in the head from too much NRA/GOP toxicity would be persuadable given a) overwhelming public opinion in favor of regulation, which I think already exists, and b) factual scientific bases to help rational gun owners actually consider some sort of regulation).
However, if I were king and could just clap my hands for my word to be law, it would be much as otherHank suggests. I’d say “you want an AR15? Sure–but you get ONE 5-round magazine ONLY; if you’re caught with more than one mag, it’s jail. No more double-stack automatic pistols, you get 6-7 rounds in the mag and you can lawfully only have ONE mag. Speed loaders for civilians? Nah. Bump stocks? instant jail for manufacturer, seller, and end user.”
This should inconvenience sport and subsistence hunters and target shooters only minimally or not at all. But I also think a public health perspective might allow building into the system tracking and early-warning mechanisms such that troubled people who fit a certain profile are automatically scrutinized before they shoot somebody.
I don’t think hard core strutting gun-nuts are persuadable at all, but I also think their visibility is greater than their numbers. Ultimately you don’t persuade them, you simply outnumber them and then roll right over them. I know it’s never that simple, of course, but …. it could work.
A Ghost To Most
@dimmsdale: It’s not just the capacity; it’s fps of the ammo. High speed rounds cause a lot of damage. A .45 does as well.
E=M(C*C)
It’s the law.
J R in WV
@Bostonian:
Regarding your thoughts on ballistics testing, by which I think you mean capturing fired bullets from guns in order to track wounds back to weapons, I don’t think this is technically realistic. If you have a bullet and a weapon, you can make a reasonable determination that the weapon fired the bullet.
But if you have a bullet, and data from 200,000 relative identical weapons, you can’t really ID the specific weapon in that crowd. The pool of potentials is too huge, and the differences between markings on bullets are too small.
But requiring insurance and registration, I’m all over that. I was surprised in NC some years back to learn that you have to get a permit/registration doc from your sheriff before you can buy a gun. Here in WV you need to pass the FBI background check, which takes a few minutes, pay up, and you’re good to go. There is no state registry of guns. There are no restrictions on private person to person sales.
Adam may know different or better about ballistics, but this is my take from reading and statistics background.
dimmsdale
@A Ghost To Most: Well, sure, but that’s also true for a .30-06 bolt-action sport rifle, But sure, if we get stats indicating that muzzle velocity is MORE significant in causing death in the case of mass shootings than ease of reloading, that would argue that ALL sporting rifles should be banned (good luck with that). (I doubt that that would be the case, but who knows–serious epidemiological study might very well spotlight muzzle velocity as a significant issue.)
Doug R
Canada seems to do just fine with basically a ban on handguns (and legal weed).
sambolini
So I’ve had several conversations with these nuts who are proud of the fact that they have guns and I don’t and how am I gonna take the. Not many replies when I tell them that it will be the police that will be taking them with half a dozen SWAT guys in body armor disgorging from an APC with their own ARs and a court order.
Villago Delenda Est
@A Ghost To Most: It’s all about trolling the libs.
Villago Delenda Est
@A Ghost To Most: We tried that. It failed. Spectacularly, and gave us the gift of organized crime in the process.
A Ghost To Most
@Villago Delenda Est: Agreed, and agreed.
It gets my attention when lefties go all authoritarian.
Harry Hamid
And when pressed about what home protection has to do with, say, as AR-15, then the truth comes out, usually, at least in my experience: The next answer will have something to do with tyrannical government or delusions of “Red Dawn.”
Miss Bianca
@A Ghost To Most: Yeah, I know, it’s so authoritarian to say, “no civilian needs military-grade weaponry.” Are you gnashing your teeth over the fact that machine guns got banned back in the day? Was that “authoritarian”, too?
JDM
If your house is robbed multiple times while you’re at work, that’s a damn good argument for requiring gun safes. And how, exactly, does having a gun prevent your house from being robbed while you’re at work?
Rick
Show you’re a ‘not responsible gun owner’ and you lose your guns and can’t buy any more. One strike and you’re out. Simple and effective. Just tell’em: ‘you’re too stupid to be trusted with a gun’. Period.
John Revolta
“I keep buying new guns and they just keep coming in and stealing them, again and again! Why do they DO that??”
Carolyn
I am not knowledgeable about guns. My father was a Diplomatic Security Agent during the 50’s and went armed at all times with a shoulder holster so he drilled gun safety into our heads and that made me very uneasy about firearms. He had me firing hand guns at age 7. The kick back would fling me on my butt every time. I haven’t shot a gun since childhood so I am a real dunce about firearms and don’t like them.
This may be a very naive question but why not make the AR 15 a Title II weapon that requires extensive background checks and registration? That doesn’t ban them or take away the right to own them and does not violate any perceived constitutional right. I am sure this would be opposed by the gun culture fanatics but it would perhaps be more doable than an outright ban.
Socrates
Some hateful class bigotry at Balloon Juice. Nice!