I inadvertently pushed some buttons yesterday with Part I. Today, John Stoehr, who writes his own newsletter and is a columnist at the Washington Monthly, wrote a long tweet stream about the incident. It turns out that my hypothesis wasn’t quite right, but it was close. Here’s the starting tweet, and I’ll put the rest of the thread into a more readable form.
https://twitter.com/johnastoehr/status/1062761886796668934
One of the biggest obstacles in the history of American liberalism has been this tendency among liberals to accept as true things liberalism’s enemies say about it and them.
Newly elected members of the US Congress arrived for orientation. @Ocasio2018 spoke at a sit-in featuring about 200 people outside Nancy Pelosi’s office.
The “protest,” as it was called, was organized by an advocacy group aiming to raise awareness about climate change and to advocate for more green-energy jobs.
This was manna to Ocasio-Cortez, who made history as the youngest woman ever elected to Congress after unseating US Rep. Joe Crowley, the former No. 3 in the House Democratic leadership.
The 29-year-old Latina has been stumping for liberal candidates across the country, making liberal arguments in unapologetically liberal ways. That she spoke with activists demanding action from leading liberals should have come as no surprise to anyone any time anywhere.
But then came this bit of disinformation from the spokeswoman of Paul Ryan to Capitol Hill reporters, which set the tone for the entire day: “Huh, well this is unconventional,” AshLee Strong wrote in an email. “The incoming speaker is getting protested by one of her freshman.”
From this point onward, Ocasio-Cortez wasn’t doing what a young dynamic liberal legislator does. No, no, no! She was “protesting” Pelosi!
AshLee Strong paved the way for every Capitol Hill reporter to tell a story they had been wanting to tell even though the narrative” was based on a falsehood: that this unruly mob can’t be controlled.
This “narrative” drew the ire of liberals who would have otherwise cheered Ocasio-Cortez. It rekindled the battle between the youngs and the olds, between “centrists” and “leftists,” and between “insurgents” and “the establishment.”
Worse, it inspired some liberals to trot out the old (often vaguely sexist) nomenclature: Ocasio-Cortez was grandstanding. She was showboating. She was this, that, and whatever. Too many liberals accepted as true what liberalism’s enemies said about it and them.
Thing is, when you actually listen to the women, a different picture comes to light. Not only was Ocasio-Cortez doing what young dynamic liberal legislators are supposed to do—bring new energy and new ideas to the table—she was charting her own course while forging alliances with established powers. She created a bridge between an energized under-30 base & the party’s leadership. She’ll likely be an invaluable ally as Pelosi plots a way forward.
Few can say they’ve accomplished more on their first day.
Bloomberg reported the incident was a challenge to “party unity.” The Times said earlier these renegades may be unwilling to “toe the party line.” Fox’s Laura Ingraham thrilled at the sight of Nancy Pelosi trying to wrangle newly elected “insurgents.” None of it was true.
As is the case when women rise to power, people are eager to project onto them what they want to see, and are not listening to what they are actually saying.
Reporters can be trusted to frame politics in conservative terms. That’s what happened. Right-wing media can be trusted to cement the view that the Democrats are “a mob” and risk “overplaying their hand.” That’s what happened. But liberals ought to know better.
Here is what Ocasio-Cortez said to activists: Should Leader Pelosi become the next Speaker of the House, we need to tell her that we’ve got her back in showing and pursuing the most progressive energy agenda that this country has ever seen.
Later, to the news media: AOC: One of the things I admire so much about Leader Pelosi is that she comes from a space of activism and organizing. And so I think that she really appreciates civic engagement. What I’m here to do is to support the folks who are here. This is about uplifting the voice and the message of the fact that we need a Green New Deal and we need to get to 100 percent renewables because our lives depend on it. … ***We are here to back [Pelosi] up.***
To which, Pelosi said: We are inspired by the energy and activism of the many young activists and advocates leading the way on the climate crisis. We welcome the presence of these activists, and we strongly urge the Capitol Police to allow them to continue to organize and participate in our democracy.
Um, yeah, no. This was not a protest, as Republican AshLee Strong said. It was activism. This was not disunity. It was unity.
This isn’t the Tea Party. This isn’t a conservative party. It’s a liberal and democratic party. Reporters should cover it as such if only for the purpose of accurately representing reality.
But liberals weren’t listening either. They should have been. Instead, they accepted as true what liberalism’s enemies said about it and them.
As I’ve thought about it today, it has occurred to me that it would be a good idea for liberals to represent the interaction as if it were planned and a total success. That’s what Republicans would have done.
TenguPhule
So it was a stunt. Started by the Fucking Republicans on the fucking lazy media who didn’t bother to fucking double check their sourcing.
JFC.
TenguPhule
A spokeswoman for AOC would like to know if Paul Ryan has stopped beating his wife yet.
Cheryl Rofer
@TenguPhule: The demonstration, protest, whatever you want to call it, was not a stunt. The Republicans lied and the media ran with the lie.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
I have to say, reading AOC’s words is a breath of fresh air. Given her reputation of campaigning all over the country for progressives who had little chance of winning in the first place instead of campaigning in her own district for the general, I’d feared she was as bad as Wilmer.
Chris Johnson
Thank you, Cheryl. Let’s not go around listening to what turns out to be Paul Ryan’s spokesperson.
lamh36
No offense, but there are a number of new and exciting Dem faces that were also elected to Congress last week. Ocasio is not the only new member.
I mean, I’d kinda like to hear about Sharice Davis , or Ayanna Pressley,
or maybe, Ilhan Omar
The new freshman class in the House is diverse enough full of folks not just AOC…
Geeno
I would say that AOC’s audition to be ON that committee was probably successful.
Chris Johnson
We also kicked ASS regarding justices. We got tons of judges, all over the place.
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer:
Also known as a political stunt. The Fake News is here and it has the GOP’s seal of approval.
But her emails!!!
@lamh36: we have a Voldemort/Harry Potter situation here. Sure Neville Longbottom and our new class of awesome Representatives also fit the prophecy, but the media and Republicans have gone out of their way to mark AOC as the chosen one.
Mandalay
If AOC jumped into an icy river and saved a drowning baby some folks here would be quick to point out that she wasn’t breathing bilaterally, and if she had been she could have reached the baby sooner.
debbie
AOC:
That alone had to drive a stake straight through Laura Inghram’s pseudo-heard. More please!
Kay
I just love how calm you always are, Cheryl. Amid the jackals :)
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Oh splendid, the Conservatwits have rejected the real Democratic party and substituted their own fantasy Democratic party and their fellow old white male heterosexual life partners in the press went with it. True to form, as Beneto would say.
On the other hand, thanks to the assist from the mouth breathers on the right the good world did get out, so the stunt was successful.
Ella in New Mexico
This. Again and again and again. We need to stop letting their characterizations define us and even more importantly, split us.
Remember this for the next two years: the Republicans have already had the strategy meeting and it boils down to one thing that they (and the Russians) have learned is incredibly easy to do: Turn Democrats against one another so we end up losing. Don’t fall for it.
And might I say that Cheryl’s keen intuition, garnered from wisdom she’s gained from a lifetime of experience and observation, was spot on. Oh, as was mine /buffs nails on chest and gazes at reflection/
:-D
piratedan
ty for unrolling the tweet CR, more than a few of us suspected that this was a framing issue and sure as hell, guess what it is… and part of me wonders, just who the fuck goes to talk to Paul Ryan about anything going on with Nancy Pelosi and doesn’t mention that in their commentary like good little stenographers unless they are interested in promoting that narrative as a non-partisan take…
Unless I hear it from a Dem on camera, I guess I’m just going to have to be suspicious…
TenguPhule
Just a reminder that Trump’s border stunt is still ongoing.
gene108
Democrats in disarray is a subject the media will never tire of trying to fit into any story they can.
TenguPhule
@piratedan:
They’re fucking idiots (the media). The Trumpsters already don’t believe them and now they’re ruining their credibility with the rest of us. How the fuck do these lazy morons expect us to defend freedom of the press when the press keeps stepping into that lawn full of rakes? We’re relying on them to at least report accurately, to keep objective reality grounded and they’re failing at this simplest of jobs. They’re going to find themselves with a worse reputation then lawyers at this rate.
chris
Goddamn kids still on the goddamn lawn!//
David Roberts at Vox was not appreciative yesterday but he changed his mind today. I do like the Green New Deal resolution as it contains all the things that will be necessary to combat climate change. I especially liked the equity provisions.
jl
Reading the reports on the Dem leadership struggle, most of the hard stated opposition, as in promised to vote against her, comes from Dems in red districts who are afraid of what the GOP says about Pelosi.
Nice to see Patrick Maloney from NY, who says he’s from a red district, pushing against that narrative.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/pelosi-flexes-her-muscles-amidst-rumblings-she-may-not-have-votes-for-speaker
I think the list of all the Dems who are against, doubtful or uncommitted was in a Hill article, but can’t find the link now.
lumpkin
@Cheryl Rofer:
The stunt reference is to the Republicans. Reread more carefully.
TenguPhule
Of course they did.
Of course he did.
Mattis calls deployment to the border ‘great training’ as he visits troops in Texas
lamh36
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Not sure it was you pushing the buttons. However, to mark my beliefs to market, if Stoehr’s narrative of how yesterday went down is between the more accurate to the accurate account, then I withdraw my remarks from yesterday.
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
That’s a great pic! Delgado was my “adoptive” candidate — I had him on monthly donation. I’m so thrilled he won!
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman: Have you seen the new military readiness report from the biapartisan committee saying Trump’s idea of National Security is a whole lot of wishing and whistling past the graveyard?
Gravenstone
@TenguPhule: And a whole lot of knees jerked around here because too many people have preconceptions about her based on her rather brief public exposure, Congrats guys! You fell for it hook, line and fucking sinker. Hope you’re all fucking proud!
Mnemosyne
This pleases me, because it makes me think that AOC is learning from her early missteps and realizes that setting herself against the Democratic Party is probably not the best way to function as a member of the House.
@lamh36:
The MSM always latches onto one or two people to be the “face” of a new movement. Hopefully AOC will be as savvy about bringing her fellow representatives into the spotlight as the Parkland kids were about highlighting other kids who are also suffering from gun violence.
Immanentize
@lamh36: Lamh, my friend…. I fear Pressley has a bit too much self righteousness in her at this moment. She is amazing!! Has great ideas! But beating Capuano was not a blessing. It is an offer to work.
When Scott Brown beat Coakley in Mass for the Senate match for Ted Kennedy’s vacated seat, one of Capuano’s peeps told me that Brown was about to become the 100th member of the Senate club. And Brown felt that truth two years later.
Frankensteinbeck
@Gravenstone:
I was not one of those people, but I extend at least some sympathy to the people who’ve become hypersensitive to leftist ratfuckery after 2016. At the same time, I’d say this is a sign to take a deep breath and not leap instantly or trust hype about who is and isn’t on our side.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule:
Given both the formal guidance for the Soldiers that’s been reported, as well as Mattis’s comments, I don’t see how that is even remotely possible.
Mnemosyne
@Gravenstone:
Yes, it’s almost like conservative Democrats have been scheming to get rid of Nancy Pelosi and replace her with a conservative white dude. Or that multiple Democratic House candidates felt pressured to ritually denounce Nancy Pelosi when they ran and say they wouldn’t vote for her as Speaker … including AOC.
Yep, no reason at all to be wary of a freshman representative who had been vocally critical of Pelosi ever since she won her primary in a surprise upset.
Cheryl Rofer
@lumpkin: I just like to make sure that all of us understand things the same way. That was what I thought, but I wasn’t completely sure.
lamh36
https://twitter.com/andrewperezdc/status/1062860280651231232
Steve in the ATL
Any Lake Mary, Florida juicers in the house? I’m at F&D!
jl
The Democrats did well in the midterms, with an economy that was good, as judged by usual headline criteria, and historic wave of GOP lies and nonstop smears, and corporate media that most people get pretty much going along, falling for the stunts.
Pelosi has a good plan, and if high profile new progressives like AOC keep learning and playing it smart, we’ll do well in the next election. Economy probably won’t be doing nearly as well.
And as I said, from list I saw, congresscritters who promised to vote against Pelosi, or said she was ‘unacceptable” though didn’t promise, are mostly moderate to center, in red districts, running afraid of GOP stunts that didn’t work. And they just got elected with two years to build for next one. So, for those mostly moderate to right, though I saw one or two professed progressives, they are getting off to a poor start.
Immanentize
@TenguPhule: The Palestinians are dying on the border with Gaza killed by Israelis.
Mandalay
@Ella in New Mexico: Yep, you were a shining light in that thread of shit yesterday – thanks for that. I can only echo what you said then:
Emma
@Mnemosyne: Ditto from me. I am most glad if the story is true; but I reserve the right to sit back and watch.
lamh36
Queen – Another One Bites the Dust (Official Video) https://youtu.be/rY0WxgSXdEE via @YouTube
jl
@Mnemosyne: AOC is officially uncommitted on Pelosi, that is what the list I saw said. Sorry I can’t find it right now, and I have to go. Will look for it later, think it was in the Hill
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: I have. You’ll recall my post from May 2017:
https://balloon-juice.com/2017/05/09/we-are-not-escalating-operation-freedoms-sentinel-or-much-of-anything-else-despite-the-clickbait-headlines/
NotMax
Yup, let’s focus on purity picking every little thing apart before anyone just elected is sworn in.
Dems. Gotta love ’em.
:·|
chris
@TenguPhule: Texas and Tijuana are close, right?
Mnemosyne
@Ella in New Mexico:
Sorry, but I remain wary of AOC. When pushed, her instinct seems to be to attack her fellow Democrats. Did she ever apologize to Joe Crowley for claiming he was planning to mount a third-party campaign against her, or did she just hope we all forgot about it?
Ked
Right now one needs to hold to a strict 48-hour rule about even simple reporting in the political realm, since there’s SO MUCH RATFUCKING going on and things can turn at any moment.
Case in point:
https://twitter.com/hesanihilist/status/1062867992457895937/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1062867992457895937
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: Give me a heads up before you do anything so I can do a Floriduh! Man: Steve in the ATL Edition post.
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
They’re making soldiers put up barbed wire at the border crossing areas. While migrants are still passing through the area.
So apparently formal guidance met reality and reality is winning.
Baud
I’m glad I missed this kerfuffle.
TenguPhule
@Immanentize: I’m not interested in a thread full of arguing about I vs P. I thought I made that clear last time?
Immanentize
@NotMax:
It is sadly the prevelent reality. The media zeitgeist. I hope with all my hoping machines that the Dems understand and have a plan to counter/defeat this present reality.
Baud? Kay?
Immanentize
@TenguPhule: What you made clear is you have no moral center.
TenguPhule
@chris:
The New York Times thought so.
an earlier draft mentioned “migrants arrived at the border town of Tijuana”
Baud
@Immanentize: I have a plan. A secret plan.
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: That is one huge clusterfuck! The Israelis really backed into this mess. And, of course, now there are reported leaks that MBS pitched an Israeli war against the Gazans in order to take the heat off of him and the Kingdom. And while there’s no way to prove this wasn’t started as a result of a botched Israeli Special Forces intel gathering op, there’s also no way to prove this wasn’t an attempt by the Israelis to help cover for MBS.
I’ve been monitoring this mess since it started and will try to do a full post on it sometime tomorrow.
Ked
Gah, how do I get twitter embeds to fire?
Apparently not like this?
jl
@Baud: The entirety of the Baud 2020! political existence is nothing but stunts. I thought you studied all of them closely.
Adam L Silverman
@chris: They both start with a T.
Jay
Thank you for the follow up Front Page post.
But the knives are still out for AOC,
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, no Front Pagers or commentator’s have bothered to list the 20 traitor’s trying to coup Pelosi or their contact info.
TenguPhule
@Immanentize: Because I objected to an asshole being an asshole who was trying to drag other people into an argument which was only going to piss people off? I’m not sure your definition of moral center aligns with the general understanding of the term.
Mary G
The media feels a story about a woman doing her job right is boring and tries to poke with a stick in the hopes of some drama. Hillary got it in 2016, Nancy and AOC are getting it now. The groupthink among the media is sad. They still feel Nancy P is radioactive, in spite of the fact that a huge number of Republicans who said voting for their opponent was a vote for EBIL NANCY PELOSI did in fact, lose their elections, showing that voters who don’t watch Fox 24/7 have no problem with Nancy SMASH.
Immanentize
@Mnemosyne: I love her because she is never uncertain but often wrong.
Yet she adapts. That passion but flexibility is so very very fine. I’m not sure it can survive her engagement with Washington realities. But I hope it can. Miss-steps are the mark of Future Leaders.
Mary G
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: They haven’t arrived. There are about 2,700 left over from an earlier caravan who have been trickling in. They got separated from the main portion of that caravan earlier this year and have largely just shown up in Tijuana and are asking to be processed for asylum. They’re not related to the one large and two smaller caravans working their way up through south Mexico that are still about 2 months away.
Mnemosyne
@Ked:
Verrrrry interesting. So Avenatti may have been swatted?
Gin & Tonic
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Dude, if you knew anything about her district you’d know that that was unnecessary.
Another Scott
@Ked: Only “front pagers” can embed Tweets here (or post pictures, etc.).
We mere mortals can’t. We have to live with the links.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Matt McIrvin
https://twitter.com/MichaelJFoody/status/1062013117029335040
TenguPhule
@Mary G:
You’re too generous. Its fucking infuriating. I’ve dealt with puppies that have had better memory retention then the DC reporters.
Adam L Silverman
I have got to say, this kid is really working hard for the title of “dumbest member of my Tribe!”
Baud
@jl: I’m not really a “studier.”
Matt McIrvin
Comment editor not working–the above was supposed to be this:
Mandalay
@Mnemosyne:
Did Joe Crowley pretend that he lived in New York so he couldn’t have his name removed from the ballot, or did he just hope we all forgot about it?
Crowley had a home in Virginia. He and his family lived in Virginia. His kids went to school in Virginia. Yet Crowley pretended that he lived in New York. The voters in his district knew that was a lie, and it was a major reason for his election loss.
Ked
Well, again, 48 hour rule. Could be credit-stealing. But yeah, if Avenatti got SWATed, there will be blood.
edit for regretful terminology
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman: Normally the detectives in the tv dramas have to lay out their evidence before the perp confesses to the crime.
Immanentize
@TenguPhule: Dear TP. May I call you “TP?”
Raven has never ever been
. He and I disagree sometimes. It’s fun! But he was discussing one thing and you slagged him for another and you called Raven an asshole?!
I called you the Kanye of Balloon Juice. Too much respect paid.
chris
Another bit from David Roberts.
Baud
@Mandalay: You’re not really bringing that bullshit up again?
Adam L Silverman
@Ked: Here you go:
Mnemosyne
@Immanentize:
I’m definitely not writing her off. She made some embarrassing errors early on (like the abovementioned accusing Crowley of plotting to run against her based on zero evidence) but hopefully she learned from them and has learned to temper her enthusiasm with a little forethought before jumping onto Twitter.
TenguPhule
@Immanentize:
I “slagged” him for doing exactly what he did. Dropping a “Fuck Israel” comment right in the middle of the thread completely out of the blue and I wasn’t in the mood for a long drawn out argument going over the same things over and over again. And yes, he was being an asshole about it. I wasn’t the one dropping the f cluster bombs for once.
hellslittlestangel
@zhena gogolia: He’s my new Rep. Thanks for the help!
trollhattan
@Jay:
Is Silent Bob there?
Gin & Tonic
@Mnemosyne: Given the ways that minor parties are aligned on NYS ballots (it’s complicated!) her concern was not misplaced, but may have been misunderstood.
Jay
@Mandalay:
??????
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: That’s because the letter hasn’t actually been released. Here are the list of names believed to be on the letter.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nancy-pelosi-democratic-foes-letter-names-congress-speaker_us_5bec9b94e4b03af89266428d
zhena gogolia
@hellslittlestangel:
I liked the Swing Left model of having you adopt a neighboring district that might go R to D. It gets boring living in a deep blue district (at least on the Federal level — I also got the thrill of seeing my Repug state senator lose).
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
Exactly the kind of crack reporting not expected from the FTFNYT.
Mandalay
@Adam L Silverman: The reason for it is completely irrelevant for some people such as DWS, because for them it’s always the other guy’s fault:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1062356733782343687
Mnemosyne
@Mandalay:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is about to move to DC and has been publicly complaining about the cost of housing there. Better start a recall petition since she doesn’t live in New York anymore and has very publicly admitted that she’s moving out of NYC.
I should have expected you would be the kind of asshole who would expect Crowley to only see his kids on weekends for the majority of the year. I mean, what kind of lousy father expects to be able to live in the same house as his own school-age kids most of the year, amirite?
Dan B
Your report doesn’t surprise me. I’ve been quoted in print, on radio and tv often for events at which I was peripheral. One thing became clear after the first few times of being misquoted or edited horrendously is this: it’s Media. I ended up being the only person quoted in an article about local middle-eastern Muslims’ relief efforts. I was one of a few white people helping collect donations. Fortunately I knew the message the organizers wanted, “I’m here to support local Muslims who want to help fellow Muslims who are suffering from extremists. Any Seattleite would help.”
There was more but it was a headslapper to me when I became the story. Good Dog! Can’t it just be about the organizers big hearts? But… That’s not an interesting story. Dog bites man, no story. Man bites dog! Unexpected!! It’s a Story!!! I was also familiar to the reporter so she thought she could get a useful quote.
Media exists for its own means. It’s not accurate. It’s not really reporting. And since the demise of the Fairness Doctrine it’s been biased towards management and the owners.
What AOC is now is a familiar name. She’s gotten media coverage so she’ll keep getting it until she’s no longer a point of conflict or doing unexpected things. It would be ideal if the Dem leadership could provide her with some professional training. But the current crop of pros the Dems like are not that great. It’s sad because she’s telegenic, quotable, and has some important causes. She could rapidly advance if she doesn’t get saddled with the rabble rouser / trouble maker role.
A crisis is a terrible media opportunity to waste.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: Wohl’s creating a whole knew paradigm!!!
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/07/25/politics/joe-crowley-working-families-party-democratic-house-caucus-race/index.html
Crowley never called her to concede, ( he claim’s he didn’t have her number)
He didn’t remove his name from the ballot under the Workering Families Party, so technically he did run a 3rd Party Campaign,
and the wingnut Whurlitzer that is the MSM ran stories promoting him as a 3rd Party Challenger.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/07/25/politics/joe-crowley-working-families-party-democratic-house-caucus-race/index.html
Ocasio-Cortez has nothing to apologize for.
oldgold
The Monmouth Poll published today shows that Pelosi’s detractors have some legitimate concerns.
https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_US_111418/
Before everyone attacks me, I think she deserves to be elected Speaker.
Mandalay
@Baud:
What part of that do you think is bullshit? Be very specific.
It’s all true and is a response to what Mnemosyne alleges. Even though she knows the truth, she persists in taking a dump on AOC at every opportunity.
Mary G
@Adam L Silverman: So approximately 14 men to three women? That’ll go over great with women who worked their asses off to get these guys elected.
Jay
@trollhattan:
Nope,
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: I have my sources…
Usually it’s the BBC.
TenguPhule
@oldgold:
From this we can conclude most of the public are fucking idiots who are too stupid to be allowed around sharp objects.
lamh36
TenguPhule
@lamh36:
Against who? The wife is saying she knows nothing about this, apparently.
Have we moved to the “false arrests of political opponents” stage of America’s descent into Nazism?
Adam L Silverman
@Mandalay: That’s because the news media generally doesn’t show this kind of footage:
Mandalay
@Mnemosyne:
Crowley can live in Virginia or he can live in New York – I don’t care either way. But what he can’t get away with doing – and he didn’t – is to live in Virginia with his family, but pretend to the voters that he couldn’t remove his name from the ballot because he lived in New York.
schrodingers_cat
FWIW, I called my representative in support of Pelosi’s bid for speaker.
pka
Useful post, thanks. Changed my perspective a lot and am much less concerned about AOC than the fivewhiteguys crap.
Mnemosyne
@Jay:
Running a third party campaign requires actually running a campaign. You know, making phone calls. Printing up campaign flyers. Convincing voters to vote for you.
Gosh, you mean the right wing saw an opportunity to stir up animosity between Democrats and took it? What a shock! No such thing has ever happened before, and certainly not as recently as yesterday.
Well, except for making paranoid false accusations on Twitter. But you’re fine with that, because you think she’s hot, so therefore she can do no wrong.
Just out of curiosity, has AOC ever made a mistake, or has she been pure and perfect since the moment you lay eyes on her?
Doug R
@But her emails!!!:
There’s a theory that Longbottom was the back up chosen one. He did kill the last Horcrux, after all.
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
You know that before she ran for Office she had double jobs to pay the bills, Bartending and Waitressing right?
And she earned $29,000 last year, right?
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
Yeah, but Lieberman is gone!!!
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36:
Jay
@Mandalay:
?????
Gravenstone
@Emma:
No problem with that. We should all take a more reserved approach to the new representatives. They will all experience a learning curve. Some will flail, some fail and some succeed wonderfully. But let’s not try to lambaste them for each perceived misstep, especially when those ‘missteps’ end up being Republican ratfuckery aided by an all too gullible (or obedient) media.
lamh36
Apparently, the staff, butlers wore tuxedos as work uniforms.
Also talked about the fact that the family is actually billed for what they used in the WH…
Loving this book tour already…
Jay
@Mandalay:
?????
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Immanentize:
…or former Congresscritters.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
I wonder if Surefire Intelligence recognizes the irony of the name they’ve given themselves. It can’t have been intentional.
Mnemosyne
@Mandalay:
Yes, you have thoroughly demonstrated that you don’t understand how someone could live in one state and have legal residency in another state, despite the fact that 535 members of Congress and every member of the military does the exact same thing that Crowley did.
You do realize that members of the military retain residency in their home state regardless of where they’re stationed, right? Soldiers living and working on a base in Georgia may be legal residents of a dozen different states.
It’s the same with members of Congress. Rational people understand that Adam Schiff can’t fly home to California every night, so he is a legal resident of California even though he eats and sleeps and works in DC.
What’s your plan to change that? Should all members of Congress who do not live within easy commuting distance of DC have their state residency stripped as soon as they’re elected?
debbie
@Ked:
On my laptop, if I click on the upper righthand corner of the original tweet, a dropdown gives me the choice of embedding the tweet. If I pick it, a box opens with the link. Copy that whole thing, then paste it in here, and it will appear as a blockquote.
Adam L Silverman
@Mandalay: Actually until the Gingrich Revolution in 1994, it was common for the majority of members of Congress, especially if they got past their first term, to get a house in DC or the Virginia or Maryland suburbs of DC and relocate their families. The third party line on the ballot is a separate issue, however, Crowley or any other member of either chamber of Congress having a house in DC/the DC area is not really an issue in and of itself.
Gin & Tonic
@Mnemosyne:
I’m never the tone police here, but that’s cheap.
Mnemosyne
@Jay:
Hey, I’m not the one arguing that AOC should be stripped of her NY state residency as soon as she gets a lease on an apartment in DC. Mandalay is. If you have a problem with that view, argue with them.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: For now.
Mnemosyne
@Gin & Tonic:
This is a continuing argument from earlier today, so ….
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Gin & Tonic:
Oh I know her district is a safe D district. It still irked me. That was the same mistake that district’s incumbent made; not paying attention to the constituents.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: How much you want to bet the President is writing that off his taxes as a business expense.
Gin & Tonic
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: The only election that matters there is the D primary. She’d be wasting time and money campaigning for the general.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: He stole the name from a company that makes excellent tactical flashlights.
https://www.surefire.com/
Baud
@Mandalay:
That he didn’t live in New York because he had a place in Virginia where he stayed when he was doing his duty as a Congress critter.
AOC’s argument against him was shameful, and justifies people’s skepticism her.
Fair Economist
@Adam L Silverman: Linda Sanchez? WTF? From a D+17 district?
tobie
I’ll be the spoiler in this thread. First thank you, Cheryl, for the follow-up. I’m glad yesterday’s action was not aimed at Pelosi but I still find the episode troubling. Maybe it’s the fact that 200 activists would put more faith in a newly elected and untested representative than in a caucus leader who convened the first subcommittee on climate change and has made combatting climate change a legislative priority for this Congress. As far as I can tell, AOC loves playing the role of being the sole spokeswoman for the unrepresented, the underrepresented, etc. Some obviously are taken with this. I find it obnoxious. Time will tell if she can work with her colleagues to craft progressive legislation. She hasn’t had to be a team player yet. (Note the difference between her statement, “What I am here to do is to support the folks who are here” and Pelosi’s response, “We are inspired by the energy and activism of the many young activists.”) That will change now that she is in government. Good luck to her. We need not only strong individuals but also a strong team to clean up the mess the GOP has created.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@oldgold: Think that might have something to do with Republican ads linking Democratic candidates to Leader Pelosi and no one knowing who the hell the Turtle is?
HinTN
@Mnemosyne:
Did anybody read the article (Booman, I think, maybe Digby) about her integrity regarding how to pay her living expenses during the transition? This young un has the chops in a massive way.
Platonailedit
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
He remained on the ballot, under his name, under the Working Family’s banner during the election.
He got 8,505 votes in the Midterm Election in the NY 14.
Name on Ballot, check
Got votes, check
And for over a month now, you’ve been trumpeting the ReichWing attacks on her every chance you get,
For free.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
As you probably already know, the argument that Crowley was “really” a resident of VA because he moved his family there was the attack that AOC and the Working Families Party used to claim that Crowley shouldn’t be allowed to claim New York residency when they were claiming it was “easy” for him to have himself removed from the ballot.
I’m pretty sure that Crowley’s accountant didn’t agree since Crowley was paying NY income tax, but it’s such a simple, stupid, and wrong attack that AOC’s worshippers just can’t let go of it.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: Forget it. It’s such a bad faith argument. Might as well have been born on Fox.
Fair Economist
@Mnemosyne:
Which would mean she couldn’t run for re-election. Logical!
schrodingers_cat
@Platonailedit: Theranos director, says what?
Adam L Silverman
@Fair Economist: I didn’t make the list. I didn’t force these people to put their names on the list. I just copied and pasted the list.
debbie
@Gin & Tonic:
IKR? And it hasn’t even been 10 days since the election.
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
Build a better strawman.
Crowley claimed he couldn’t remove his name from the election ballot in NY-14 because he resided in Virginia.
8,505 votes that he sucked away from her in the Midterm Election.
Mnemosyne
@Jay:
The only way for Crowley to remove his name from the ballot was to run for a different office, move out of state, or die. Which one did you want him to do?
Mandalay
@Mary G:
Indeed. The Morning Joe experts were clutching their pearls and dumping on Melania Trump today for being unseemly by publicly asking for Ricardel to be fired. Well, stories are now leaking out that apparently she had been working silently behind the scenes to get her dismissed, and all her efforts were ending up in the trash. So she resorted to a bazooka to get the job done because a scalpel wasn’t working.
To be clear, I have no idea whether the dismissal was richly deserved, or disproportionate revenge over some minor issue. But that is beside the point; it is another example of groupthink: a limited set of facts were available, and an immediate and incorrect conclusion was drawn by the media.
Doug R
@Gravenstone:
First thing she did when nominated is fly to Kansas with Bernie to try to sandbag Sharice Davids.
tobie
Never mind.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
They should sue. The mere association may turn them into goofballs.
different-church-lady
@Mandalay: And if everyone here praised AOC to the rafters, you’d find some other way to troll us.
A Ghost To Most
@TenguPhule: Would you be as pissy if Raven dropped a “Fuck LBJ”?
Fuck fascist Israel.
Mnemosyne
@Jay:
Sorry, you have it backwards. Crowley is legally a resident of New York, which is why he was representing them in Congress. AOC claimed that, because he has a house in Virginia where he and his family live while Congress is in session, he should no longer be allowed to claim residency in New York. Mandalay is echoing that claim and saying that Crowley should not be allowed to have legal residency in New York if he lives in Virginia while serving in Congress.
As I tried to point out above with the example of the military and other members of Congress, this is a really dumb and ahistorical argument, but it sounds good on the surface, which is why idiots latched onto it.
Jay
@Baud:
No, wrong again.
Crowley did not call to concede. He claims he didn’t have her number.
That’s bullshit.
He remained on the ballot for NY-14 in the General under the Working Families Party and garnered 8,505 votes.
More bullshit.
The MSM ran stories after the Primary inferring he was considering a third party run,
MSM bullshit and Lieberman rat fucking.
He claimed he couldn’t remove his name from the ballot for the General because:
– he lived in Virginia, not New York,
– the process was to difficult,
More bullshit.
He got 8,505 votes in the General.
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
He didn’t reside in the state, he resided in Virginia.
Pick a strawman and stick to it.
delk
Hmmm… the pie filter just used a gif of a pie.
Dan B
It seems certain that AOC will continue to be followed by the DC media and by national MSM outlets.
It also seems she’s likely to get pigeonholed as “a thorn in Nancy Pelosi’s side, and in establishment Dems side”.
Given that AOC will be a rabble rouser at times, because she’s got principles. And she’ll be a rabble rouser at times because she’s young and green, and is still learning. What should she do with the key she’s been given to limelight, to mix metaphors?
What are the traps likely to be sprung on her?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Doug R:
I never liked that, honestly.
zhena gogolia
Wow, I’m already even more sick of this than I am of relitigating Al Franken’s resignation.
Mnemosyne
@Jay:
What part of HE IS A LEGAL RESIDENT OF NEW YORK STATE NOT VIRGINIA are you failing to understand?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Gin & Tonic:
Fair enough. You’re right. In a safe district like hers the primary is the only election that matters.
eemom
Tsk tsk. AOC vs. Pelosi is SO yesterday. Meanwhile
And, a potential challenger is on record.
A Ghost To Most
@delk
Pie filters are for weenies.:
Adam L Silverman
@Platonailedit: Do you know how hard it is to crawl from the Yukon to Seattle?
Mnemosyne
@Jay:
I’m going to blow your mind for a minute: many people live in one US state but are legal residents of a different state.
Having a house in Virginia where you live with your family while Congress is in session does not make you a legal resident of Virginia. If it did, then every member of Congress would have to leave office, because they would no longer be legal residents of California or Hawaii or Illinois.
Living in a state does not grant you legal residency in that state.
tobie
@Platonailedit: I don’t know anything about Mattis’ background but I hate when people like him talk about immigration in the 19th and early 20th centuries as if it said anything about immigration in the last 30 years. I’d be hard pressed to believe that immigration laws were as stringent in the 19th century as in the 21st century. And that would also mean that there wasn’t this strong distinction between “legal” and “illegal” immigrants.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: All homestead exemptions matter!//
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay: So, when my step-daughter lived in the UK when she was in the Air Force, she wasn’t a resident of California?
Mnemosyne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Apparently not. And apparently, contrary to US law and custom, she automatically became a resident of any state where she was stationed, because understanding residency is hard.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: I believe they’ve already issued a lawyer’s letter.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@eemom:
No, I voted to put an effective opposition in power to act as a check on Trump’s and the GOP’s power.
Jay
@Doug R:
So?
It was a Primary. Democrats should feel free to support whomever they want in a Primary.
None of the anti-AOC arguments are making the AOC haters look very attractive.
Thinly veiled Agism, anti-leftism, insufficient deference to authority, misogeny, and lot’s of purity trolling and winger cites, just to name a few.
Meanwhile, Adam’s posting of an actual traitors list, bupkis.
If the AOC Haters spent 1:100th of the kneejerk energy dragging down AOC, in supporting Nancy Smash, she’d already be Speaker.
chris
@Adam L Silverman: Damn! Now I want a USD $1370 flashlight. $1800 CDN! Maybe Santa…
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Everyone knows that every Member of Congress is like Joe Biden and takes Amtrak home in their home state every night. //
Mnemosyne
@Dan B:
They definitely tried to spring a trap on her yesterday, but she was able to wiggle out with Pelosi’s help. Her best bet is probably to strategize with the Democratic leadership about where and when she’s going to stand up so they can all coordinate their responses.
That’s the kind of stuff that Pelosi excels at, but she’s old and a woman, so she has to be replaced. ?♀️
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: I was assigned at Carlisle Barracks and lived in Carlisle, PA for four years. I maintained my permanent legal residence in Florida, voted in Florida, kept my vehicle registered in Florida for that entire four years. Just as I did for the 18 months I was away for my Iraq deployment: 4 months at Leavenworth in KS, three months in Germany with my brigade combat team in garrison at Smith Barracks in Baumholder, and 11 months in Iraq.
different-church-lady
@Jay:
Oh shit, that means THE PRIMARY NEVER ACTUALLY ENDED!!!
Kay
I want this on my sign at any upcoming rally.
Adam L Silverman
@tobie: Chinese Exclusion Act? The Immigration Act of 1924.
Gravenstone
@Mnemosyne:
Do please try to be even more condescending about AOC…
MomSense
Hmmm, maybe Stoehr should tell Sunrise Movement they weren’t staging a “step up or step aside” protest at Pelosi’s office. They seem fine with the protest description.
Also sit ins where you get arrested aren’t planned as supportive activities.
BruceFromOhio
Thank you, Cheryl. You simply cannot know how awesome it is that you do this to make these things easier to read. The Twitter format is clunky for long-thought, like running a tasty plate of food through a food processor. Or a disposal. ‘A more readable form’ is really welcome.
Now off to read …
Adam L Silverman
@chris: They’re good, but way overpriced. There are as good equivalents for far less money.
Mandalay
@Adam L Silverman: Ugh. We certainly get mostly one-eyed view of the conflict here, which is why I wish DWS wouldn’t post incendiary stuff like that on her “Congresswoman” twitter account. By doing that she is implicitly linking her comments to the Democratic Party.
She is Jewish, she is a staunch supporter of Israel and she has a right to voice her opinions. I get all that. But she also says that she wants an end to the conflict, and there is no way that her comments on her “Congresswoman” twitter account help towards that goal. She also has a personal twitter account – why can’t she use that to post her personal views on Israel, as she is currently doing for the election counting?
ETA: Two Muslim women were just elected to Congress as Democrats. I wonder how they feel about DWS posting those comments about Israel on her official twitter account.
Adam L Silverman
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Does she not know who Congressman Clyburn is? Because he’s the #3 member of the leadership team.
PsiFighter37
@Jay: You are so goddamn stupid if you think 8,000 votes in a general election off of residual name recognition on a third-party line is something to get upset about. Good grif.
tobie
@Adam L Silverman: Oops…welcome reminders of the history of hideous immigration acts.
Gin & Tonic
@Jay:
I know you live in the middle of nowhere, but do you know NY-14? AOC got 100k out of 128k votes in that district. So Crowley’s inaction wrt to the WFP line sucked away 8.500 votes. It could have sucked away five times that, and she’d still have won big.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman:
OK Adam, what did you do to get 4 months at Leavenworth? Joy ride in a general’s car? Enquiring minds…
Doug R
@Jay:
If you can’t see what’s wrong, I ain’t convincing you. She flew in to support a fellow Berner against Sharice Davids.
schrodingers_cat
I am already bored with the AOC fanboi club.
Jay
@Dan B:
AOC’s going to be “media popular” because:
– the Media got sandbagged by a primary in their own back yard,
– the can comfortably wrap a whole host of stereotypes lazily around her just as slaggers here have, including Socialism!!!! and other wingnuttia,
– she’s social media savvy
– Cletus Safari’s to her backwoods is just a taxi ride,
– all the AOC “hot takes” have already been written, going back to 1961, they just have to dust them off, and swap in her name.
The biggest dangers for AOC are:
– believing the media narrative the MSM is already trying to craft,
– letting the Media hype feed her ego and rob others of focus
– other Democrats buying the MSM’s bag of shit, lock, stock and barrel like so many have here.
Adam L Silverman
@Mandalay: DWS is from an older generation of American Jews. One of the major problems that Netanyahu has created over the past decade or so is that he’s made Israel a partisan issue by taking sides with the Republicans against the Democrats. In Presidential elections, in who he chooses as his envoy and (former) senior advisor – both were American Jews who were GOP operatives. While this won’t immediately show up in American politics, the effects will begin to be felt in the next presidential election. Especially if Bibi doubles down for the President in his reelection bid.
BruceFromOhio
That happens a lot around here*, especially recently**.
*America
**Since like forever
chris
@Adam L Silverman: Ayup. There are flashlights like the one I have ($40) and then there are tacticool status symbols.
Adam L Silverman
@tobie: No worries.
PsiFighter37
Since Seth Moulton is the biggest crybaby about wanting new leadership in the House – why doesn’t he run? SATSQ: The fucker knows he wouldn’t win. He just wants someone else to take the dive for him.
That said, I’m not convinced that Pelosi is going to have the votes for the general floor vote. Winning the leadership race is one thing, but if she doesn’t have more than 218 for that vote – that’s a problem. Unfortunately, all of the heir apparents over the years (Rahm, for all his faults, would have been great at keeping folks in line; Chris Van Hollen, Xavier Becerra, to name a few) all moved on. It’s not readily apparent that anyone else has the skills for it right off, outside of the folks who have been there forever (Steny Hoyer, Jim Clyburn).
Amir Khalid
@chris:
The American city nearest Tijuana is the US Navy town of San Diego, California. I know that because I once rode a bus on a day trip from San Diego to Tijuana. Has Trump had any soldiers deployed to San Diego?
Jay
@different-church-lady:
Yeah, apparently neither Crowley or anyone in his Campaign had the faintest idea about how to find the Challenger’s Campaign Offices phone numbers.
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: The training site for the program was at Ft. Leavenworth.
tobie
@MomSense: Good point. Stoehr’s take evidently involved some creative framing. I did wonder why the activists didn’t bother to stage a sit-in outside McConnell’s office. It’s almost as if they hate Democrats more than Republicans. It’s a good thing Nancy is thick-skinned and doesn’t need to call attention to her achievements. A lesser person would have handed out copies of the 2010 clean energy and green infrastructure bill she got passed in the House. It failed in the Senate for reasons beyond her control. The Senate was still trying at the time to get Republican buy-in on the healthcare bill.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne:
The last one, obviously.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: Of course, I’ll update your dossier.
burnspbesq
@chris:
I’m a little confused by the reports that the caravan is headed for San Diego. Why would they not reduce the trip by hundreds of miles by going to Brownsville?
Can someone explain?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Adam L Silverman:
Apparently that doesn’t matter to her. She wants to hold the gavel.
different-church-lady
@Jay: Yeah, it’s a pity it made her general election win completely illegitimate.
Look kiddo, if you want to go the perpetual resentment route, knock yourself out. In the meantime both Pelosi and AOC have got real work to do. Together.
Jay
@Gin & Tonic:
Crowley’s “ineptitude” if that’s what you want to call it, “posioned the well”, on what could be an excellent, young Democrat, and every time her name is mentioned, The Ususal Suspects rush forward to dump more ricin In the well.
She could singlehandedly take down an ISIS cell, operating from underneath Yurtle the Turtle’s desk, and foil a plot to kill Nancy Smash and Obama,
and The Ususal Suspect’s here would post links to InfoWars.
MomSense
@tobie:
If you go to Sunrise Movement’s website and twitter feed you find a bunch of Tell Nancy Pelosi blah blah blah stuff. Seems like they staged a stupid protest and handed the media an easy Dems in disarray story. Wonder who is trying to walk it back after it wasn’t received well.
different-church-lady
@Jay:
And her own obnoxious supporters, don’t forget that.
Jay
@MomSense:
Nobody got arrested.
On the other hand, a Black Female Georgia Senator did get arrested, zip tied, and jailed for 6 hours, while Senatoring While Black.
chris
If anyone is actually, you know, concerned about climate change you can read about the “protest” and its goals here. Sounds like the kids have a plan.
different-church-lady
@Jay:
Crowley is the sole reason AOC has a reputation? Tell us more about that!
chris
@Amir Khalid: Haha! I was kidding, Amir. and yes there are soldiers at the Tijuana crossing.
Mnemosyne
@Gravenstone:
You realize I’m old enough to be AOC’s mother, right?
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne: Well, who here isn’t?
Ruckus
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I lived in Charleston, SC, well OK Charleston Harbor, on a big boat. And at various times I, and the bed I slept in was in Italy, Spain, Greece, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, UK Holland, Portugal, Cuba….. And I still had my CA drivers license, my residence was listed as California and I voted in California elections. How could that possibly be?
Jay
@Doug R:
Yeah, in a primary.
God forbid that young “lefty” Democrats support other young “lefty” Democrats.
You might not have noticed, but in the 30+ year “drift” of the Democratic Party to the right, while the ReThugs have steadily marched towards the alt-Reich,
There arn’t many “leftie” Icon’s and Elders left.
Adam L Silverman
@chris: I personally like the Anker ones. They tend to run between about $12 and $40 bucks depending on which one you get.
chris
@burnspbesq: Well, if I had to choose between Texas and California…//
No idea, maybe Central American family ties?
Barb 2
@Adam L Silverman:
Those holes in the Gaza apartment buildings were most likely from Made in the USA – military industrial complex bombs and expensive toys. Most likely done with Trump’s blessing. There are Christian Palestinians – the bombs don’t just kill Moslems. But then the victims are POC. The evangelical Christians really want to see blood flowing in the streets because – End Times and the return on their Jesus.
Gin & Tonic
@Jay: She got 78% of the votes in her district in the general, FFS. 78%! Would she be more powerful or legitimate had she gotten 79%?
different-church-lady
I don’t know about the rest of you but I feel thoroughly progressed by my betters at the moment.
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: Yes, San Diego is one of the three locations where Soldiers were deployed. Donnah, TX, where Mattis was today is one of the other two. The third is in Arizona.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus: Obviously voter fraud. //
Darkrose
@schrodingers_cat: Thank you! After reading Bad Blood I don’t think Mattis should be in charge of anything ever.
Adam L Silverman
@burnspbesq: That’s the line that C&BP is pushing because about 2,700 stragglers from a caravan from earlier this year finally made it to Tijuana and are now asking to be processed for asylum. So CB&P is pushing the argument, based on “their intelligence” that the caravan is coming to Tijuana. Also, that it is already there because of these 2,700 or so stragglers.
Humdog
@burnspbesq: As I understand it, the straight north option is more dangerous. Both in territory to cross and banditry. So they head to the westward, longer route.
tobie
@chris: Sorry but their stated goals are a nice wish-list for Xmas but have zero value in terms of actual legislation. I guess what they were doing yesterday was a consciousness-raising exercise. Really the best thing for these earnest activists would be to have a sit-down with Al Gore to get up to speed on the issue and to learn what concrete things they should be demanding in the next legislative session and beyond. I don’t doubt their passion but I’d like to see it channeled into something more effective.
Jay
@tobie:
“I did wonder why the activists didn’t bother to stage a sit-in outside McConnell’s office.”
The purpose of the protest as stated on the website,
“Now that the Democratic Party has won the House, we are taking action to demand that the House, under the Democratic Party, take action on Climate Change”.
Do you honestly think a protest outside Yurtle the Turtles office is going to accomplish anything more than Yurtle sneakily curb stomping a youte while the Capital Police brutalize them with tazers and pepper spray?
Adam L Silverman
@Barb 2: Israel has their own, very robust munitions and weapons industrial sector.
cwmoss
@Mnemosyne: “Domicile” is the better term than “residency.” You establish a domicile when you reside in a place with the intent to remain there indefinitely. Military service members retain their home domicile because they are sent to duty station, they don’t move there of their own accord. Residency = where you live now. Domicile = residency + intent to remain indefinitely. They are overlapping concepts but not identical. “Legal residence” is a term used in some places to denote domicile. My two bits worth. (IAAL). Sorry, nothing funny to say right now. Just pedantry.
chris
@Adam L Silverman: Mine is a hardware store knockoff. I call it the toad light because I don’t want to step on them when I go out with the dog and his cat at night. Also good for spotting porcupines in the trees after Bert points them out.
Jay
@different-church-lady:
Yup, they do.
Other people here on the other hand, would rather spend their time slagging AOC using wingnuttia than say, call one of the 20 after Pelosi’s head.
different-church-lady
@Jay: Until democrats take another branch and a half of our government, it’s going to accomplish zilch no matter which office the demonstration takes place near.
MomSense
@Jay:
According to Sunrise Movement, organizers of the protest, capital police did arrest several protesters. They staged the sit in because “@HouseDemocrats have failed our generation time and time again”.
different-church-lady
@Jay: You wanna know the one thing that most makes me wary of the AOC phenomenon?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@tobie: No, Al Gore is fat.
different-church-lady
@MomSense:
Shoving the massive, stubborn pachyderm that is our healthcare system a little more towards fairness, was, indeed, one of the great failures of the democrats.
Gin & Tonic
@different-church-lady: Have you donned your hair shirt?
Adam L Silverman
@chris: I keep one by the front door for when I take the four foots out at night.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@different-church-lady: It wasn’t single payer, so it was a failure.
Jay
@different-church-lady:
All of the “attacks” on AOC started from Crowley’s ineptitude, if that’s what you want to call it.
She pushed back.
Since then, there have been a bunch of supposed Democrat’s here who have gone out of their way to regularly attack her.
I guess there is no room in the Democratic Party for Young Women of Colour who don’t know their place.
That’s the message being sent.@chris:
Jay
@chris:
?????
different-church-lady
@Jay: All of them. I see.
Amir Khalid
@Doug R:
Neville could as easily have been The Chosen One. He had the stuff: he never lacked courage even as a bumbling first-year, he led Dumbledore’s Army in Harry’s absence, and he received Godric’s sword as a worthy Griffindor. Voldemort had to guess whether Harry or Neville would be his nemesis; it was his guess, not any innate superiority of Harry over Neville, that made Harry The Chosen One
chris
@tobie: I dunno, man, they got on the TV. They actually got TV news to mention climate change. Given the times and the system that’s a BFD.
Baud
@MomSense: Thanks. I’ll add them to my Do Not Take Seriously list.
Jay
@different-church-lady:
Worse yet, she might come to believe what some so called Democrats are saying about her and cross the floor to get away from the backstabbing.
Baud
@chris: Al Roker mentions it often. Quite a change from a few years ago.
different-church-lady
@Jay: Wow, that’s some faith you have in her!
You realize you’re just being incoherent now, yes?
Mandalay
@Jay: The most astounding thing about the hate here on AOC is the notion that she unseated a good guy. Crowley was a self-serving mediocrity who had run unopposed for years, and was so completely out-debated by AOC that he chickened out of the final debate.
THAT is the guy they would prefer in Congress over AOC? But of course the cognoscenti on BJ know so much more about Crowley’s virtues than the voters in his district.
Cheryl Rofer
@chris: And even Fox News mentioned the Green New Deal. They are doing it to scare their viewers, of course, but I’ve seen a lot of tweets in this vein:
Jay
@different-church-lady:
As I keep explaining to the moron brigaides here, protests have a lot of different functions.
One moron three days ago slagged the protesters for protesting “wrong” because it obviously didn’t immediately stop climate change.
I pointed out that the Women’s Marches didn’t get the Insane Clown Piece of Shit, united states, to resign.
Instead, a bunch of women discovered that they wern’t alone, that they had allies, that there were other paths as well, 90 million craploads of them got active in campaigning, 100 craploads ran for office, and won.
In the aftermath of the protests, the AOC/Pelosi meet, the news, ( not the op eds) all front paged Climate Change, the Green Plan, the House Commitee, Sunshine, Pelosi and AOC,
at a time when the Insane Clown POSus’s puke funnel drove every other story off the front pages.
Beergoggles
It certainly showed us who the enemies within are, willing to believe conservative narratives without giving any credit or leeway to leftwing voices.
different-church-lady
@Cheryl Rofer: “Holy shit, FEMALES WITH DARK SKIN ARE SMILING AT ME! AAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!”
Baud
@different-church-lady: Trigger warning, please.
different-church-lady
@Jay: a) As I suggested at the end of last night’s thread, it wasn’t really a “protest”, it was a demonstration, and those aren’t the same thing.
b) If the women’s marches had been directed at other women instead of the Creep-In-Chief, they probably wouldn’t have been nearly as effective, now would they?
Jay
@MomSense:
They have,
Just like the Liberal’s have up here.
Still, given the choice between Scheer and Trudeau, Trudeau in a heartbeat even though he’s doing the least possible on Climate Change and the odds are I’m going to get burned out soon.
Climate Change has been known about for over 30 years.
Now we’ve got less than 10 years left.
Mnemosyne
@Jay:
Actually, it was the ineptitude of the Working Families Party, which put Crowley on their primary ballot as the sole candidate and then were just as shocked as everyone else that AOC won. In an attempt to save face, they then claimed it was all Crowley’s fault that their party nominated him. And then AOC stupidly decided to take sides and blame Crowley for the WFP’s mistake, too, because the establishment Democrats MUST be at fault, right?
different-church-lady
@Mandalay: Link?
Baud
@different-church-lady: Yeah, I initially thought the point was to protest women. Egg on my face….
@Mnemosyne: To be fair, none of this would have happened if he had won the primary.
Jay
@different-church-lady:
The ACA, or ObamaCare as I prefer to call it, just cause it sets the wingnuts off, doesn’t cover pre-existing conditions like Climate Change,
but nice Strawman.
different-church-lady
@Baud:
Or died. That would have worked too.
Baud
@different-church-lady: So fucking selfish.
different-church-lady
@Jay: You never did answer my question about incoherence.
chris
@Cheryl Rofer: Eek! Radical! Almost… Canadian!
Mnemosyne
@Mandalay:
Er, exactly no one is arguing that Crowley shoulda won. AOC won the primary fair and square.
However, winning the primary fair and square does not then give her free rein to start Twitter fights slandering Crowley for the ballot problem created by the Working Families Party.
Jay
@Mandalay:
?????
Funny thing is, while I’m a leftie, I’m not an AOC fanboi,
Just tired of Dem’s slagging Dem’s using ReThug ratfucking talking points,
Then when caught and exposed,
Doubling down on the hate.
sgrAstar
@Adam L Silverman: @Mandalay: good grief! The glamour model has no standing whatsoever to intervene in West Wing personnel decisions. That melania is doing this- and being responded to!- is simply outrageous. Media reports have been accurate; the details are far less important than the fact the melania (!!!!!!) engineered the ouster of a senior NSA official. Off the map and through the looking glass!
Zelma
@Adam L Silverman:
She possibly doesn’t know who James Cleburne is because he doesn’t recognize half the members of his caucus. I can support Pelosi but I think Hoyer and Cleburne are past their sell dates.
Brickley Paiste
So all of the angry little turds who attacked OAC the other day here and elsewhere were driven by their own emotions and ignorance instead of the actual facts.
Well, knock me over with a fucking feather.
Jay
@different-church-lady:
There’s a whole host of things that happen at a protest and during the process of the protest that have nothing to do with the subject of the protest, but have positive results in a large variety of ways.
There’s a lot of complexity involved, and the people who kneejerk criticise protests, have no clue what’s happening.
But hey, Climate Change Protest’s havn’t stopped Climate Change and at the same time, produced some CO2, maybe some methane, depending on the local food trucks,
So why bother, right?
Jay
@different-church-lady:
Didn’t understand it at all.
Your question in response to my post, was incoherent.
rekoob
@\: @Adam L Silverman: Moreover, the US Army’s Command and General Staff College, the primary training for the Army’s mid-level officers (and many others) is based at Leavenworth.
vitaminC
God, the loathing aimed at AOC is astonishing. You people would rather see this country burn to the ground than share it with somebody younger and less white than you. Pathetic.
tobie
I don’t mean to interrupt this most elevated discussion but you folks should really check out Seth Moulton’s twitter feed where he pledges his opposition to Pelosi and support for Marcia Fudge. It’s just brutal. He’s so going to live to regret this. Whenever he’s back at home, people are going to harangue him for this foolish and damaging stunt. He’s now officially in the Twitter Hall of Shame!
different-church-lady
@Jay: I’m glad we understand each other.
Failing that, I’m glad we fail to understand each other.
Adam L Silverman
@rekoob: I’m aware. I’ve spent a lot of time over the past decade trying to keep various people at the Combined Arms Center from taking over the world.
Redshift
@jl:
I read about that, too. Any Dem who sees anti-Pelosi ads in their district and thinks getting rid of her will make them go away instead of just changing to the next wingnut boogeyman is too dumb to be allowed near sharp objects or leadership elections
WaterGirl
I wish everyone would just shut up about AOC. Seriously. She hasn’t served a single day yet. Was I impressed with some her choices during her campaign? No.
Talk about shiny objects – we read a bit of what appears to be republican spin and people here have been fighting about this for 2 days. There are at least a hundred more important political things to talk about than this right now.
jl
Here is a list, updated today, on where newly elected Dems stand on Pelosi leadership.
Where Newly Elected Democrats Stand on Nancy Pelosi Speaker Bid
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/where-newly-elected-democrats-stand-on-the-pelosi-question
Took a while to find it, thought it was from the Hill, but it’s Roll Call.
It’s not the whole story, since I think some conservative incumbents are against her too, and have challenged her before.
jl
Fivethrityeight blog has a list too, but not broken down by hard and soft opposition.
Why Nancy Pelosi Isn’t Guaranteed The Speakership
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-nancy-pelosi-isnt-guaranteed-the-speakership/
Mnemosyne
@vitaminC:
Yep, when we say it was dumb for AOC to campaign on behalf of a white dude in Kansas instead of Native American candidate and eventual winner Sharice Davids, we’re saying it because we hate young women of color. Good one!
jl
@Redshift: Well, some of them thought it was necessary to make a hard promise of a vote against her on the floor. I don’t see why that was necessary. What are they going to do if it is Pelosi versus McCarthy? Abstain. That looks very effective.
Fivethirtyeight blog has a list too, with vote margins for each district. I put it in a comment, but WP ate it all up.
I’ll try again. From comparing the lists, it does seem true that most of her harder opposition comes from moderates who had thin margins. Though, Conor Lamb was up by 12, so not sure what is up with him
Why Nancy Pelosi Isn’t Guaranteed The Speakership
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-nancy-pelosi-isnt-guaranteed-the-speakership/
eemom
@WaterGirl:
As mentioned yesterday, just imagine what this place is gonna look like when campaign 2020 gets going.
Hope the site revamp bid that Cole eventually settles on includes a meltdown containment option.
jl
I think/hope that Pelosi can bargain with the progressives, maybe with a commitment to prepare some younger people for future leadership by giving them some positions on lower rungs.
I think everyone in senior leadership is over 75, and second tier not that far behind.
That is a problem, and leadership needs to start reflecting Dems who will be serving in Congress.
vitaminC
@Mnemosyne: Is it possible you believe you’ve been measured and fair in your response to AOC? People in yesterday’s thread were calling her a Barbie doll – is that the kind of trash you endorse? And yes, while not everything is identity politics (AOC endorsing the person she believes to be the more progressive candidate, regardless of ethnicity, etc), I can’t help but notice the hatred of her seems to be more intense than anything I’ve seen in some time. And I truly believe that’s due to her youth, possibly ethnicity, etc. I don’t know why you’re so threatened by her. She’s not attacking you personally – she’s not even aware of your existence, random person on the Internet. It is not about you.
vitaminC
Also, you have to love people complaining endlessly about apathy among the youngs and then going thermonuclear when the youngs vote for somebody other than their chosen candidate. Careful what you wish for, I guess.
Mandalay
@sgrAstar:
Generally not I’d agree, though it is alleged that Ricardel had been spreading lies about Melania Trump. I have no clue whether that is true, and I really don’t care, but if Melania Trump sincerely believes that she is surely going to address the issue whether she has standing or not.
I was not posting about that anyway. My point was that the media blindly start making unfounded assertions without being in full possession of the facts. At first glance it seems outrageous that Melania Trump would go public, but if it turns out that Ricardel really had been spreading lies about her, and Melania Trump had made genuine efforts to get her dismissed privately first, then going public doesn’t seem at all unreasonable to me.
Of course she may have been duped into believing something that wasn’t true, or she may have maliciously gone after Ricardel in a petty vendetta, in which case going public is pretty sleazy, since there was no way that Ricardel was going to survive once that had happened.
Mandalay
@vitaminC:
Heh. Just be glad you weren’t here when BLM briefly gave Hillary Clinton a moderately hard time during the 2016 campaign.
Mnemosyne
@vitaminC:
I think I have been. I am not the keeper of any other commenters here, so I am not responsible for what anyone else said about her.
I think she has made several dumb and avoidable mistakes that her defenders are working overtime to make excuses for. I think her staff has not always served her well because some of the mistakes were things like missed phone calls by her staff that she later claimed on Twitter were deliberate snubs because apparently no one on her staff told her they had made an appointment on her behalf.
It’s due to her being aligned with Bernie Sanders and her early support for candidates aligned with Sanders. Sanders deliberately divided the Democratic Party in 2016 and used Republican attacks on Hillary Clinton to damage her chances in the general election. I distrust anyone who complains about “establishment Democrats” trying to “steal elections.”
She specifically aligned herself with the forces that helped elect Donald Trump by dragging Hillary Clinton down. I do not trust her to act in the best interests of the country or the Democratic Party. She aligns herself with the faction trying to split the Democratic Party and make us less effective in fighting Trump, and you wonder why people are suspicious and angry?
But, hey, I’ve already been told that I’m an old centrist white woman who needs to step aside and let the white dudes run things, so …
Mandalay
@vitaminC:
She’s been demanding that ACO apologizes for a tweet sent during her contest with Crowley for months.
In Mnemosyne’s defense, I’m sure it’s nothing to do with race, and I definitely give her credit for showing up in this thread, unlike others who gleefully head stomped ACO in yesterday’s clusterfuck – she’s not a coward. But given all the other shit going on, and the obvious major failings of many others in the Democratic Party, her ongoing obsession with sticking the knife into ACO before she’s even in Congress is absolutely bizarre.
vitaminC
So AOC is a white dude now? I take back what I said earlier, then – obviously you must be a close friend of hers to be privy to such personal information.
For me, the question boils down to this. What’s more likely, that AOC is a Manchurian candidate hell-bent on infiltrating and destroying the Democratic Party, or that she’s an unabashed liberal/progressive idealist who sometimes runs afoul of existing power structures?
Mnemosyne
@Mandalay:
Yes, it’s almost like I think it was bad for AOC to lie and say that Crowley was planning to mount a third party campaign against her when he wasn’t. Or to insist that Crowley re-arrange his life and give up his New York residency because the Working Families Party fucked up their primary. And to play the victim when her staff screwed up and missed scheduled calls with Crowley.
But, hey, maybe she’ll bring about the progressive revolution by helping Steny Hoyer become Speaker of the House. Hooray!
Gretchen
@Mnemosyne: That jumping into the campaign in my Kansas district is what soured me on her. It was a real stretch for us to hope to win this district, and we had 3 really good candidates. Her choice wasn’t one of them, but rather than researching all the candidates, or deciding that maybe since she’d never been to Kansas she might not have her finger on the pulse of the district, she jumped right in. She concluded from her one campaign in a very blue district that she knew how to win everywhere, and she didn’t. Thank goodness her candidate lost and we have a rising start representing us instead. I think she has a lot of potential, and it’s good to have working-class people in Congress. It’s just that at this point she seems to think she knows more about politics than she does, and I wish she’d take it a bit slower so she doesn’t mess up other people’s progress like she tried and failed to do here.
vitaminC
@Mnemosyne:
This is utter nonsense. Did you even read the piece? Pelosi and AOC are working together on this, and AOC has stated explicitly that she supports Pelosi. Don’t we have enough real enemies without you fabricating more?
Gretchen
@vitaminC: You’re wrong. This country will burn to the ground if the Democrats can’t unite to oppose Trump. Anyone who is encouraging the fighting is the enemy. This stupid fight against Pelosi is one example. We have a strong leader, but the white dudebros think they should be in charge and are willing to burn it down if they don’t get their way.
Mnemosyne
@vitaminC:
Yes, because there are no women or people of color who help prop up the white patriarchy so they can gain a little piece of power for themselves. Mia Love and Clarence Thomas say hi.
Ah, so you were in a coma for all of 2016, then? Missed the whole Sanders “revolution” against the evil “establishment Democrats” who needed to be destroyed to save the country?
It’s kind of amazing how Sanders fans now try to deny everything he and his followers have been saying for the last two years about destroying the Democratic Party in order to save it. I’m guessing that’s because, for the most part, the candidates who ran on starting a “revolution” inside the Democratic Party didn’t do very well with actual Democratic voters. Instead, Democrats elected a record number of women, especially women of color, rather than the people planning a civil war.
Mnemosyne
@vitaminC:
Don’t insert yourself into ongoing dialogues that other people are having when you don’t understand the context.
vitaminC
“Dialogue”? Unhinged rant, more like. Well, I give up. Continue sh!tting on young progressives, if that makes you feel more relevant. Just stop whining that young people don’t leap up to support your pet policies/candidates after you’ve spent so much energy vilifying them.
Mnemosyne
@Gretchen:
What’s funny is that I started out this thread saying that I was happy that AOC and Pelosi were working together and that it gave me hope that AOC was learning how to balance her energy and enthusiasm with political cunning.
But then AOC’s fans had to jump in and insist that she has never made a mistake and any controversy was all everyone else’s fault and they pissed me off.
I don’t hate AOC. I do think that she is growing into her role and that she is smart enough to realize that Nancy Pelosi is a better friend and mentor than an enemy. But she did fuck up several times on her way there, and I still don’t entirely trust her not to fall back on attacking her fellow Democrats if she gets stressed.
vitaminC
Yeah, that time where you called her the stooge of the white patriarchy totally read as happy. The happiness just oozes off the (web) page.
Mnemosyne
@vitaminC:
If what you’ve gotten out of this 300-post thread is that I hate young progressives, then I honestly don’t know what to tell you. You’ve clearly already made up your mind to feel persecuted by mean old centrist white ladies like me who are suggesting from experience that perhaps young progressives might want to slow their roll and find out things like, say, how the House of Representatives operates before tearing it all down.
Good night.
Mnemosyne
@vitaminC:
Honey, you realize that everyone on this page can scroll back to my very first comment at #29 to see what I actually said, right?
You should stop now. Put down the keyboard and walk away. Good night.
MomSense
@Jay:
Oh FFS could you be any more condescending? When I earned my degree in International Relations with a minor in environmental policy more than 30 years ago, believe it or not I had actually heard of global warming. It was old news even then. I also worked on environmental legislation. Perhaps you’ve heard of the Clean Air Act? I don’t need a fucking lecture from you or anyone else about climate change. I remember being pissed when HW Bush proposed cap and trade in 1989 because it undermined the progress we were making on legislation to just regulate greenhouse gas emissions outright. Now I would be thrilled if we passed cap and trade. We came close in 2009 when Nancy Pelosi passed a decent bill through the house. She’s the last @HouseDemocrat who needs scolding from a bunch of amateurs.
vitaminC
“Honey”? Yeah, nothing condescending about you. Not at all. Comparing a young progressive woman with Clarence Thomas was meant to be a compliment, right?
Let’s go back to comment #29 and review, shall we?
Then directly contradicted by #288:
Look, I get it. You’re threatened by somebody younger coming in and shaking things up. She hasn’t groveled enough for your liking. You haven’t really pointed out specific policy disagreements with her, so I assume it’s just a question of form. She’s not doing it the way you want it done, and for some reason this enrages you.
MomSense
@Jay:
You are tired of Dems slagging Dems using Rethug ratfucking talking points??? Exactly why I loathe St. Bernard of Vermont and why I’m disappointed in AOC. I hope she gains some humility and learns from the people in Congress who actually have some legislative chops. She’ll need to unhitch her wagon from Sanders and the other Our Revolution idiots first though.
Emma
@vitaminC: Good Golly. Mr. President is that you?
vitaminC
@Emma: Of all the stupid things I’ve read on here today, this must be the winner. Yes, Donald Trump is secretly going around advocating for young Latinas to be Congresspeople instead of sex toys. Jeez, tribalism is one hell of a drug.
Jay
@MomSense:
Appeal to authority
Lovely,
Keep on keeping on shiving dems,
I’ll leave you to it.@MomSense:
Emma
@vitaminC: Jesus Christ. You accused Mnem of being an old woman that feels threatened by a younger one. You also accused her of not offering any substantive criticism, in spite of her having written reams of reasons for her opinion. In fact, you tried to turn it into a sour old cat being pissy because a young kitten strutted into the stage doing her thing. That’s Trump-level misogyny right there.
eemom
@MomSense:
Let’s not forget that St. B ain’t a Dem. He just tells Dems what to do on teevee.
vitaminC
@Emma: You really don’t see it? The patronizing tone, the condescending pats on the head? Then, when that didn’t work, the white-hot hostility (white patriarchy puppet, stooge, comparison to Clarence f-ing Thomas [?!])?
AOC was elected to the House at 29. That’s one hell of a lot more than I’ve managed to accomplish. Maybe, rather than just assuming she’s an idiot/puppet/stooge, maybe it’s just possible that she might have some ideas worth hearing? And maybe the weapons-grade hostility to her could possibly be rooted in some kind of generational or ethnic prejudice?
Nah, I’m sure it’s just that you’re perfect and she’s the worst. That’s the ticket.
…
Seriously, the tribal fanaticism on display here is creepy. Are we doomed to endlessly rehash the 2016 primary? Is being “right” more important to you than moving the country forward?
Jay
@vitaminC:
???????
Jay
Wow, an almost Tbogg unit off hating a Dem.
Wow, you guys are so fucked.
LMFAO.
different-church-lady
Ooh, the old folks
Hate the young folks
And the youg folks
Hate the old folks…
different-church-lady
@Jay: it’s only 60% of a tBu, bub. You want a tBu you gotta go SNOWDEN!
WaterGirl
@Jay:
Wow, “you guys”. That’s telling. It makes me wonder if you are just trolling here.
Full Metal Wingnut
@lamh36: Her surname is Ocasio-Cortez, not Ocasio.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@tobie: What bothered me far more than the protest itself yesterday, was the narrative that I saw all over FB by my progressive friends: finally someone is brave enough to push the Dems to do something on Climate Change. It rests on the assumption based in ignorance, that the Dems have not done anything on a given issue, when actually a quick Google search would confirm that they have. Often several times. It’s all a part of the Dem-bashing from the Leftier-than-thou purity ponies and I’m so tired of it. They do the same thing with Medicare4All by acting like the Democratic Party and specifically NANCY PELOSI didn’t move virtual mountains to get the ACA passed, or that Hillary wasn’t talking about Universal Healthcare back when most of these people were still in grade school. It’s the narrative that never gives the Democratic Party any credit for the things that they have actually done (or tried to.).