Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you don’t.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Nikki Haley, who can’t acknowledge ‘slavery’, is a pathetic shill.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

The willow is too close to the house.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

A consequence of cucumbers

It’s the corruption, stupid.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Dead end MAGA boomers crying about Talyor Swift being a Dem is my kind of music. Turn it up.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

Motown is Joe-Town!

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Friday News Dump – Leak Edition and Open Thread

Friday News Dump – Leak Edition and Open Thread

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The Washington Post and Wall Street Journal have stories on the CIA finding that Mohammed bin Salman ordered the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. As in other apparent intelligence community leaks, two major newspapers got the information pretty much simultaneously.

The assessment is said to be of “high confidence,” which means that the CIA would bet a lot of money on it. Or as someone wisecracked on Twitter, it means “we have tapes.”

That makes things complicated for Donald Trump and John Bolton, who have been hoping everyone would forget it.

*****

In another leak, the heroic Daniel Dale, the head of the Toronto Star’s Washington Bureau and indefatigable fact-checker of Trump’s words, tweets about Melania Trump’s trip to Toronto last year.

Do you think this had anything to do with Melania’s trashing Mira Ricardel over her trip to Africa?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Reader Interactions

119Comments

  4. 4.

    Mnemosyne

    Cheryl, after seeing the various tweets from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez the last couple of days, I have to say: you were right. She and Nancy Pelosi cooked the whole thing up together to get more PR for one of the Democrats’ top priorities.

    I will try not to doubt you again. ?

  5. 5.

    Mary G

    Evidently the FTFNYT and the AP were the third and fourth calls on the CIA’s list. And the WaPo is not going to let anyone forget it; they are pissed off.

  9. 9.

    WaterGirl

    @Mary G: What did you mean in the other thread when you said that MBS’s brother was doubling down. That was the first I’d heard anything about the brother regarding this horrific event.

    Were you thinking the brother was providing cover for MBS or that he was denying something MBS had said?

  12. 12.

    Yutsano

    @Schlemazel: I beg your pardon good sir. Prostitutes serve a long standing and vital function in society.. The Third Lady is the species known as Trophy Wife. She does not regale in random affairs with heads of state. Plus Monsieur Trudeau is much too classy to bother with her type.

  13. 13.

    debbie

    What’s the likelihood that Bolton was the one who suggested bartering Gullen away? And what can we barter Bolton away for?

  17. 17.

    TenguPhule

    Melania Trump incurred $174,000 in hotel bills during her trip to Toronto last year

    How do you rack up that many charges while not staying the night without drugs, booze and male hookers dressed in gold bling?

  18. 18.

    TenguPhule

    @debbie:

    And what can we barter Bolton away for?

    Iran might be willing to make some peace for a piece of him. A very large piece.

  19. 19.

    TS (the original)

    How does anyone spend $174K in hotel bills without staying overnight – even staying overnight it seems a problem of overcharging by someone??

    Guess my middle class brain does not comprehend the world of spending other people’s money on your own expenses.

  20. 20.

    Schlemazel

    @Yutsano:
    The city papers had her identified as a ‘call girl’ before she latched on the the tangerine tumor

    Despite popular literature’s attempts to produce the stereotype not all hookers have a heart of gold

  24. 24.

    opiejeanne

    @TenguPhule: I was wondering about that in similar but less gaudy fashion. I mean, how much does the Presidential Suite cost for a single night? How many rooms were booked for her, and did she take a bath in the most expensive champagne they could find and order enough caviar to feed the entire staff of the White House? I would love to see the itemized bill for this party.

  26. 26.

    The Midnight Lurker

    I laughed out loud when the Turkish government announced that “Jamal Khashoggi had inadvertently recorded his own death on his Apple Watch.”. Twenty bucks says that if you get within five blocks of the Saudi embassy in Istanbul, you fall under some form of electronic surveillance. From lots and lots of different people. Some that share.
    High confidence indeed.

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    @TS (the original):

    How does anyone spend $174K in hotel bills without staying overnight

    Many hotels have public event facilities as well as overnight rooms. For example, many people hold their wedding receptions at hotels. You could easily run up a big bill at a hotel without an overnight stay by renting out its biggest ballroom for a large banquet.

  34. 34.

    Corner Stone

    @JDM:

    How many times have I told you, Melania, never open the minibar!

    It seems she lifted every single item in the minibar of all the rooms she booked to read the ingredients labels. Even though she returned them, unfortunately, she was charged anyway.

  35. 35.

    trnc

    @Roger Moore: Sure, but it doesn’t sound likely that the American FLOTUS would be renting out event space in a foreign country, especially to give speeches that last less than 2 minutes.

  37. 37.

    Corner Stone

    @trnc:

    especially to give speeches that last less than 2 minutes

    TBF, no event in her recent life has lasted anywhere close to two minutes.

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    @Roger Moore: Ugh. The whole thing is horrifying. Worst of all is that Trump is willing to trade away a US resident as an apple for Turkey to drop the whole thing.

  43. 43.

    TS (the original)

    @Roger Moore: Well I don’t think Melania was holding a wedding breakfast in the banquet room – then again – nothing any of them does would surprise me – perhaps she had a birthday party for her son and heir.

    Must remember there is always someone on bj who can argue the moon is made of cheese.

  44. 44.

    Yarrow

    From the article linked above:

    How Trump and her staff ran up nearly $200,000 in hotel bills for a 12-hour trip is unclear (the total was nearly double the $95,050 bill for a hotel in Cairo, Egypt, where she stopped for a day last month during a trip to Africa). All six charges for the first lady’s Toronto hotel bills were paid to “miscellaneous foreign awardees” rather than a specific hotel.

    “Miscellaneous foreign awardees?” What in the world are those? Ways to launder money to her friends?

  45. 45.

    Mary G

    @WaterGirl: Right around the time of the murder he left America to go home to SA with little notice. From there he said he had no knowledge of the Khashoggi murder, but people were wondering if he was telling the truth. Now the CIA has practically come out and said “We have you, on tape, dude,” and he is still denying it. Probably afraid for his life.

  47. 47.

    Roger Moore

    @trnc:
    I don’t know for sure what Melania is doing on her overseas trips, but spending a lot of money at a hotel during a day trip isn’t necessarily suspicious or out of line. The FLOTUS job has traditionally involved a lot of PR-type work, and that can involve things like public banquets, meetings, etc. If she’s doing them in a foreign country, she wouldn’t have access to government facilities, so she’d have to hold them at some place where she could rent space, and a hotel would be a natural choice. I’m not saying these expenditures are money well spent, but it would be good to see if previous FLOTUSes spent lots of money at hotel banquet facilities before complaining about Melania.

  49. 49.

    WaterGirl

    @Mary G: Thanks for the info! I guess I had heard the first part but hadn’t connected that to what you were saying, but that makes sense.

    “Probably afraid for his life.” I should probably have a problem with that, but I read what you wrote and thought “works for me”. What they did was so evil that I guess I think they reap what they sow.

  51. 51.

    WaterGirl

    @Roger Moore: The article mentioned Michelle Obama having racked up 18k in hotel rooms on a 10-day trip. Maybe to Copenhagen?

    So it sounds like the spending was WAY out of line.

  53. 53.

    Amir Khalid

    @debbie:
    Trying to barter John Bolton away will not work. If anyone had something of comparable value, they’d have thrown it away by now.

  54. 54.

    Corner Stone

    @Yarrow: It really comes down to the right mix of staff handling the Third Lady’s unmentionables. You have to have the appropriate venue and talent taking care of the pinks and the purples that keep Melania at the Top of Her Game.
    Money well spent, if one asks me.

  58. 58.

    Platonailedit

    I’m getting a migraine just imagining what Trump’s answers to Mueller’s questions would look like if he actually wrote them himself.
    — Bradley P. Moss (@BradMossEsq) November 16, 2018

    The worst (or the best?) shitshow ever?

  59. 59.

    Jay

    @WaterGirl:

    Mohammed Bone Saw’s brother is denying the reports that he is the one who phoned and texted Kashoggi, providing him with assurances of safe passage, and luring him to the Consulate,

    Despite the Turks releasing the texts and tapes to the Intelligence communities world wide.

  60. 60.

    FelonyGovt

    One of the many, many things that makes me apoplectic about the White House crime family is that US taxpayers are having to subsidize their extravagant, wasteful, tacky lifestyle.

  63. 63.

    Jay

    @Yarrow:

    ““Miscellaneous foreign awardees?” What in the world are those? Ways to launder money to her friends?”

    Yes, she and Barron are going to need a place to crash on the couch soon,

    and Slovenia doesn’t want her back.

  65. 65.

    Jay

    @Luciamia:

    No.

    Speculation is, that as a well connected, “insider” in the Sawdi Royalty, he’s someone who’s criticism and contacts could create a “Palace Revolt” against Prince Mohammed Bone Saw.

  72. 72.

    Amir Khalid

    @Luciamia:
    I’ve seen his Wikipedia entry with the Arabic spelling of his surname. If anyone’s interested, a closer transliteration would (for me) be Khashuqji.

  75. 75.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Luciamia: A serious stretch. My experience with overfunded people is that they’re assholes and expect to be given things for free that mere mortals must pay for. And they tip for shit.

  78. 78.

    Jay

    BTW, the Insane Clown POSus’s nominee for the serial violent gang rapist Bart Kavenaugh’s old Judge seat is not only a Federalist,

    but a staunch and strident defender of ‘Merkin’s unassailable right to toss dwarves.

  79. 79.

    Skepticat

    @JDM:

    How many times have I told you, Melania, never open the minibar!

    Wine is very hard to clean off a keyboard. Curse you (but thanks), JDM.

  80. 80.

    Platonailedit

    Big news out of Arizona: Democrat Katie Hobbs has declared victory in Arizona's Secretary of State race over Republican Steve Gaynor. Gov. Ducey called to congratulate Hobbs. The victory could have big implications for 2020.

    https://t.co/AjMXikzVjq— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 17, 2018

    Fuck FL. AZ, NC and TX should be the dems’ future ‘battleground states’.

  81. 81.

    J R in WV

    @Roger Moore:

    If Michelle Obama had spent nearly $200K on a foreign trip without even spending a night, can you imagine the decibel level of the racist Russo-Republicans’ shout of outrage?

  82. 82.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Mike in NC:

    By Sunday Trump will be on TV to attack the CIA as “Enemy of the PEOPLE!”

    He already did that in Jan 2017 when he called them “Nazis”

  85. 85.

    Jay

    “My two lunch companions believe otherwise. They belong to a small group of about a dozen members from the intelligence and special operations community pushing the theory that Paddock’s rampage was part of a coordinated anti-Trump plot involving the Islamic State and Antifa, or left-wing “anti-fascist” activists.

    I know, it sounds nuts.

    The idea sprang from the twisted, feverish mind of Infowars’ Alex Jones days after the Vegas attack. “They found Antifa information in the room,” Jones claimed in one telecast. “The whole thing has the hallmarks of being scripted by deep-state Democrats and their Islamic allies using mental-patient cutouts,” he said. Others of his ilk then amplified the unsubstantiated Antifa-ISIS allegations on social media in what became a frothy concoction of phony tweets, Facebook posts and YouTube videos.”

    https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/11/conspiracy-go-go-in-right-wing.html?m=1

  86. 86.

    Jay

    Btw, it’s the 666th day of The Insane KKKlown POSus’s presidency and the God Botherer’s are busy sacrificing humans, yet again, in celibration.

  87. 87.

    Amir Khalid

    @Luciamia:
    Well, Jamal Khashuqji was a journalist who exposed embarrassing things about Saudi rule, and a liberal activist who campaigned for a more open society in his country. Of course he was a mortal threat.

  91. 91.

    Gary K

    I clicked through to one of the documents and discovered the room bill covered the dates from September 12 to 24, whereas the trip was exclusively on the 23rd. Huh?

  92. 92.

    karen marie

    She delivers a speech that was one minute, 15 seconds long.

    On what planet is speaking for 75 seconds actually considered “a speech”?

  94. 94.

    Kay

    @Gary K:

    It’s very confusing. There’s an advance team but they’re billed separately so while it sounds like “advance team” explains it, it doesn’t really, because you still have those huge charges + 18k for advance team.

    I myself am hoping Donald Trump managed to get ripped off on a hotel bill.

  95. 95.

    Amir Khalid

    @Gary K:
    I can imagine FLOTUS needing a staging area, depending on what she was doing in Canada, and the Secret Service needing to conduct a security sweep thereof. But I can’t conceive of it needing to take that long or cost that much.

  96. 96.

    karen marie

    @A Ghost To Most: I still want to know what Erdogan’s game is here. This shit doesn’t happen without the Saudis thinking Erdogan is cool, and then he turns around and rats them out?

    I still haven’t seen anything that convinces me that the 2016 “coup” wasn’t set up by Erdogan as a means of ridding himself of a whole lot of opposition without having to deal with complaints from other countries. How was that bullshit coup story swallowed whole by everyone?

    Prior to Wednesday’s [April 26, 2017] arrests, figures from the Turkish Interior Ministry showed that 113,260 people in total had been arrested or detained since the failed coup nine months ago, which left 248 people dead. Of that number, almost 47,000 have been arrested on specific charges. Those arrested include members of the police, military,and judiciary, as well as civil servants and journalists. Erdoğan’s crackdown also extends to the media, with 179 outlets being shuttered in 2016 alone.

    Really? Nothing going on? Nothing to see here?

    None of it passes the smell test, from where I’m sitting.

  99. 99.

    Jay

    @karen marie:

    You know that members of the Turkish Airforce used F-16’s to try to take down Ergodan’s aircraft on the night if the Coup and strafed the Presidential Palace, right?

    Google the Grey Wolves, Operation Gladio, Gullen Movement.

    There are a lot of “factions” that Egodan both “used and abused” to gain and expand his power.

    Is Egodan using the Coup to repress dissent? yes.

    Are the Sawdi’s Ergodan’s allies? no.

    Is Turkey involved in a regional power/economic struggle with Sawdi Arabia? Yes.

    Is Turkey using Khashuqji‘s murder to try to leverage “the West” for Turkey and against Sawdi Arabia? Yup.

  100. 100.

    jonas

    @J R in WV: RW websites, Fox, and talk radio were in a continual lather for eight years over the Obamas’ purported squandering of taxpayer dollars on lavish vacations and other perks (steaks, Cadillacs…you get the picture). As usual, every accusation turned out to be a confession.

  101. 101.

    sdhays

    Perhaps THLOTUS got curious about what all the hubbub was about the “pee pee tape” and had some Canadian male hookers pee on the bed with Russian spies filming. Cleanup costs add up.

  102. 102.

    karen marie

    @Jay: Yeah, but so what? The whole thing could have been a set up. He was very conveniently out of the country. I just never bought it. It was all entirely too convenient for Mr. President For Life Erdogan.

    “Is Turkey involved in a regional power/economic struggle with Sawdi Arabia? Yes.”

    So why would the Saudis lure Khashoggi there to kill him? That makes no sense to me either.

  103. 103.

    sdhays

    @karen marie: Because they had to trick him to go somewhere he thought he would still be safe but that would reduce their risk if they got caught. Murdering him in the US would have been too risky – that could have had the potential to bring down the monarchy (not saying it would, but the potential for crazy consequences would be there). So they settled on Turkey. But they’re much more arrogant than they are bright and horribly miscalculated how interested Turkey would be in them murdering people on Turkish soil.

    Be careful not to give these horrible people too much credit as evil masterminds.

  104. 104.

    karen marie

    @sdhays: I’m not so much giving any of them credit (including Erdogan) for being evil masterminds as simply very skeptical that there isn’t a whole lot of deal making between, say, the CIA and Erdogan, as there has been with the Saudis. There are significantly over 100,000 people that Erdogan has imprisoned or disappeared, and nobody ever says a peep. I fail to understand why that would be so in the absence of some kind of agreement for everyone to act like nothing’s been going on.

  105. 105.

    Jay

    @karen marie:

    Khashuqji was a former power player inside the Sawdi Arabia Ruleing Class,

    He became an actual “reformer” which will Prince Jared assure you is a rare thing.

    This put him, and his exile, at odds with Prince Mohammed Bone Saw and his agenda, like the hundreds of other Saudi Reformers inside and outside the Kingdom that have been disappeared, murdered, tortured, cruicified and stoned to death of late.

    If you want to “Blame Turkey” instead and cite Sawdi Propaganda instead, you should just say it rather than “just be asking questions”, like a common paid Sawdi troll,

    We here at Jackal HQ are well aware of that game.

  106. 106.

    Jay

    @karen marie:

    There’s lot’s of commentary on Ergodans abuse of process.

    Just not in the USA.

    Trump’s constant puke funnel has completely drowned out the reat if the world in the US MSM.

  107. 107.

    dimmsdale

    Since it’s an open thread, I’ll pose this question, only partly in jest: Can an award of the Presidential Medal of Freedom be revoked by the succeeding president?

  108. 108.

    karen marie

    @Jay: No, you absolutely misunderstand me. I’m not citing Saudi propaganda about anything here. I am just curious as to why people are doing what they’re doing – mostly what Erdogan’s game is here. I don’t need the CIA to confirm that MBS had Khashoggi murdered. That’s been obvious since the news first came out. I’m just trying to understand – as I’ve said – what Erdogan is gaining by fucking with the Saudis – and everyone, really. What’s up with all the conflicting claims of recordings, including an Apple watch, most of which have been debunked?

    Where did I “blame Turkey” or even remotely suggest that Erdogan murdered Khashoggi? I didn’t. Again – I’m curious as to what Erdogan’s game is, because it’s clear he’s playing at something.

    And you know what? Fuck you for assuming I’m a “paid Saudi troll” because you have reading comprehension issues, or are simply incapable of asking a person to clarify.

  109. 109.

    sm*t cl*de

    @sdhays:

    Be careful not to give these horrible people too much credit as evil masterminds.

    I am impressed how well the US political / media classes have convinced themselves that Crown Prince Bonesaw is a liberal-minded, Western-educated reformer, and the only person who can bring stability to the Middle East, at the cost of occasionally autocratic tactics. It is more pleasant to believe than “giggling, emotionally-fragile, psychopathic little dumb-arse, the latest scion of a clan of inbred camel-humpers who lucked into possession of immense resources because the British found it convenient to give Arabia to them back in the days of Empire”.

    This will not end well.

  110. 110.

    Jay

    @karen marie:

    So, in Irbil, Ergodan is backing the FSA remainnents against the Kingdom of Sawdi Arabia backed al Quid-a groups.

    In Northern Iraq, the Kingdom of Sawdi Arabia and Israel are backing the Kurds against the Shia majority and the Sunni Minority which is bleeding over into Turkey’s Kurds with weapons, training and actvism.

    Sawdi Arabia and Israel have been pushing hard on the US for a new war on Iran, and the Islamophobia/Wahabbist wars in the “rest of Islam” have not “been kind” to the Turkish Economy or Turkish “polity”.

    For Turkey, the best way to stop a US/Iran War is to “neuter” the Kingdom of Sawdi Arabia in the US.

  113. 113.

    Amir Khalid

    @dimmsdale:
    This was discussed here very recently. Apparently no Medal of Freedom has ever been revoked, and there is not an established process for revocation. As this Medal was created by a President (JFK) I suppose Trump could issue an executive order revoking one or more medals awarded by Obama — or for that matter by JFK — for any reason or none at all, but I doubt der Scheißgibbon has the testicular fortitude.

  114. 114.

    sm*t cl*de

    @pinacacci:

    wow really

    Yeah really. About all that US audiences have seen of Crowd Prince Cockwomble is his combination of insecurity, ruthlessness and greed, when he imprisoned his relatives until they swore fealty and gave him lots of money. His main qualification for the job is that his father is spiraling rapidly into Alzheimers’ dementia and anointed whichever of his sons won the Regan / Goneril / Cordelia dicklicking competition.
    It escapes me why US politicians would choose such a doomed dipstick as the focus of their hopes for future Middle Eastern partnership. It must be an ingrained, counterfactual tendency to associate “authoritarian thug” with “stability”.

  116. 116.

    Ian R

    @Platonailedit:

    Fuck FL. AZ, NC and TX should be the dems’ future ‘battleground states’.

    While I’m emotionally inclined to agree, let’s see what the 1.5 million people who just got their voting rights restored in FL do to the political landscape before we write FL off.

  117. 117.

    Shalimar

    @karen marie: Erdogan’s game doesn’t seem complicated to me. He is leveraging Turkey’s evidence of what actually happened and his knowledge of how badly he knows Trump and Kushner want to protect MBS to get something valuable in return for not releasing that evidence to media.

  118. 118.

    Jay

    @Shalimar:

    Except that Ergodan’s broadcast it globally. Canada has it, Britain has it, France has it , Gemany has it,

    You can’t trade away “the evidence” for a favour, weapons or cash, to allow Prince Mohammed Bone Saw to be protected,

    When you have made it public.

    It’s more about “neutering” the Sawdis through Sanctions.

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