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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Friday News Dump – Leak Edition and Open Thread

Friday News Dump – Leak Edition and Open Thread

by Cheryl Rofer|  November 16, 20188:23 pm| 119 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Trump Crime Cartel, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome, Not Normal

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The Washington Post and Wall Street Journal have stories on the CIA finding that Mohammed bin Salman ordered the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. As in other apparent intelligence community leaks, two major newspapers got the information pretty much simultaneously.

The assessment is said to be of “high confidence,” which means that the CIA would bet a lot of money on it. Or as someone wisecracked on Twitter, it means “we have tapes.”

That makes things complicated for Donald Trump and John Bolton, who have been hoping everyone would forget it.

*****

In another leak, the heroic Daniel Dale, the head of the Toronto Star’s Washington Bureau and indefatigable fact-checker of Trump’s words, tweets about Melania Trump’s trip to Toronto last year.

Quartz: Melania Trump incurred $174,000 in hotel bills during her trip to Toronto last year, though she did not stay overnight. That’s separate from $18,000 for her advance team. https://t.co/0RFbWnJzOf

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) November 16, 2018

Do you think this had anything to do with Melania’s trashing Mira Ricardel over her trip to Africa?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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Reader Interactions

119Comments

  1. 1.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 16, 2018 at 8:24 pm

    I’m gonna be unavailable most of the evening but will check up on you later!

  2. 2.

    Baud

    November 16, 2018 at 8:25 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Nice. Time for mischief.

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 8:26 pm

    Does this imply Melania was boning Trudeau? It’s irresponsible not to speculate.

  4. 4.

    Mnemosyne

    November 16, 2018 at 8:27 pm

    Cheryl, after seeing the various tweets from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez the last couple of days, I have to say: you were right. She and Nancy Pelosi cooked the whole thing up together to get more PR for one of the Democrats’ top priorities.

    I will try not to doubt you again. ?

  5. 5.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 8:30 pm

    Evidently the FTFNYT and the AP were the third and fourth calls on the CIA’s list. And the WaPo is not going to let anyone forget it; they are pissed off.

  6. 6.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 8:30 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    why insult Prime Minister Trudeau that way? He does not impress me as the sort of guy that needs prostitutes

  7. 7.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    @Corner Stone: That is certainly an odd picture.

  8. 8.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    He does not impress me as the sort of guy that needs prostitutes

    Well done!

  9. 9.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 8:36 pm

    @Mary G: What did you mean in the other thread when you said that MBS’s brother was doubling down. That was the first I’d heard anything about the brother regarding this horrific event.

    Were you thinking the brother was providing cover for MBS or that he was denying something MBS had said?

  10. 10.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    @Schlemazel: I am suggesting she paid the bill on America’s dime.

  11. 11.

    Gravenstone

    November 16, 2018 at 8:38 pm

    @Corner Stone: Yeah, $174k racks up a hell of a lot of ‘pay by the hour’ hotel time.

  12. 12.

    Yutsano

    November 16, 2018 at 8:39 pm

    @Schlemazel: I beg your pardon good sir. Prostitutes serve a long standing and vital function in society.. The Third Lady is the species known as Trophy Wife. She does not regale in random affairs with heads of state. Plus Monsieur Trudeau is much too classy to bother with her type.

  13. 13.

    debbie

    November 16, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    What’s the likelihood that Bolton was the one who suggested bartering Gullen away? And what can we barter Bolton away for?

  14. 14.

    The Dangerman

    November 16, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    ,,,CIA finding that Mohammed bin Salman ordered the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

    This is my shocked look.

    FWIW, my ears are big (think Ross Perot) but not that pointy.

    ETA: Huh, link not working: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4ikffeqw7Ng/U83Yd5eonBI/AAAAAAAADcc/GVWTjDgFiOE/s1600/im2.png

  15. 15.

    Yarrow

    November 16, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    @Corner Stone: She only wishes that were the case. Trudeau has much better taste.

  16. 16.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    As far as Friday News Dumps go, this is woefully inadequate.

  17. 17.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    Melania Trump incurred $174,000 in hotel bills during her trip to Toronto last year

    How do you rack up that many charges while not staying the night without drugs, booze and male hookers dressed in gold bling?

  18. 18.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 8:43 pm

    @debbie:

    And what can we barter Bolton away for?

    Iran might be willing to make some peace for a piece of him. A very large piece.

  19. 19.

    TS (the original)

    November 16, 2018 at 8:43 pm

    How does anyone spend $174K in hotel bills without staying overnight – even staying overnight it seems a problem of overcharging by someone??

    Guess my middle class brain does not comprehend the world of spending other people’s money on your own expenses.

  20. 20.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 8:44 pm

    @Yutsano:
    The city papers had her identified as a ‘call girl’ before she latched on the the tangerine tumor

    Despite popular literature’s attempts to produce the stereotype not all hookers have a heart of gold

  21. 21.

    Mike in NC

    November 16, 2018 at 8:44 pm

    By Sunday Trump will be on TV to attack the CIA as “Enemy of the PEOPLE!”

  22. 22.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 8:44 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    not all hookers have a heart of gold

    Melania’s heart is most certainly hard and yellow.

  23. 23.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    @debbie:
    A highly skilled negotiator might get as much as one of Putin’s used jockstraps and a small bag of gravel

  24. 24.

    opiejeanne

    November 16, 2018 at 8:46 pm

    @TenguPhule: I was wondering about that in similar but less gaudy fashion. I mean, how much does the Presidential Suite cost for a single night? How many rooms were booked for her, and did she take a bath in the most expensive champagne they could find and order enough caviar to feed the entire staff of the White House? I would love to see the itemized bill for this party.

  25. 25.

    opiejeanne

    November 16, 2018 at 8:47 pm

    @Schlemazel: Gold is hard and cold.

  26. 26.

    The Midnight Lurker

    November 16, 2018 at 8:49 pm

    I laughed out loud when the Turkish government announced that “Jamal Khashoggi had inadvertently recorded his own death on his Apple Watch.”. Twenty bucks says that if you get within five blocks of the Saudi embassy in Istanbul, you fall under some form of electronic surveillance. From lots and lots of different people. Some that share.
    High confidence indeed.

  27. 27.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 8:49 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    That was the first I’d heard anything about the brother regarding this horrific event.

    The CIA claims he lured Khashoggi to Turkey at MBS’s request.

  28. 28.

    JDM

    November 16, 2018 at 8:51 pm

    How many times have I told you, Melania, never open the minibar!

  29. 29.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    November 16, 2018 at 8:51 pm

    I have got to be up in the morning for a fundraiser for a local Animal Rescue charity http://www.wolfwood.co.uk/eventsandphotos.html yet here I am at BJ wasting time and brain cells.

  30. 30.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 16, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    @debbie: A ham sandwich? It would be an upgrade.

    As for the Slovenian whore, fuck her with someone else’s dick.

  31. 31.

    A Ghost To Most

    November 16, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    Mohammed Bone Saw might as well give it up. NOBODY believes his bullshit story.

  32. 32.

    trnc

    November 16, 2018 at 8:53 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Iran might be willing to make some peace for a piece of him. A very large piece.

    His mustache?

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 8:53 pm

    @TS (the original):

    How does anyone spend $174K in hotel bills without staying overnight

    Many hotels have public event facilities as well as overnight rooms. For example, many people hold their wedding receptions at hotels. You could easily run up a big bill at a hotel without an overnight stay by renting out its biggest ballroom for a large banquet.

  34. 34.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 8:55 pm

    @JDM:

    How many times have I told you, Melania, never open the minibar!

    It seems she lifted every single item in the minibar of all the rooms she booked to read the ingredients labels. Even though she returned them, unfortunately, she was charged anyway.

  35. 35.

    trnc

    November 16, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    @Roger Moore: Sure, but it doesn’t sound likely that the American FLOTUS would be renting out event space in a foreign country, especially to give speeches that last less than 2 minutes.

  36. 36.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    another comment that needs upvotes

  37. 37.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 8:59 pm

    @trnc:

    especially to give speeches that last less than 2 minutes

    TBF, no event in her recent life has lasted anywhere close to two minutes.

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 8:59 pm

    @Roger Moore: Ugh. The whole thing is horrifying. Worst of all is that Trump is willing to trade away a US resident as an apple for Turkey to drop the whole thing.

  39. 39.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 9:00 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    As for the Slovenian whore, fuck her with someone else’s dick.

    I’m not really one for name-calling, but I think I’ll have to make an exception for that one.

  40. 40.

    Spikester

    November 16, 2018 at 9:01 pm

    @Corner Stone: Do an image search for Sophie Gregoire Trudeau and answer this question for yourself.

  41. 41.

    rikyrah

    November 16, 2018 at 9:02 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    This!
    I don’t understand either

  42. 42.

    Keith P.

    November 16, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    @TS (the original): Taking many shits on many mattresses.

  43. 43.

    TS (the original)

    November 16, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    @Roger Moore: Well I don’t think Melania was holding a wedding breakfast in the banquet room – then again – nothing any of them does would surprise me – perhaps she had a birthday party for her son and heir.

    Must remember there is always someone on bj who can argue the moon is made of cheese.

  44. 44.

    Yarrow

    November 16, 2018 at 9:04 pm

    From the article linked above:

    How Trump and her staff ran up nearly $200,000 in hotel bills for a 12-hour trip is unclear (the total was nearly double the $95,050 bill for a hotel in Cairo, Egypt, where she stopped for a day last month during a trip to Africa). All six charges for the first lady’s Toronto hotel bills were paid to “miscellaneous foreign awardees” rather than a specific hotel.

    “Miscellaneous foreign awardees?” What in the world are those? Ways to launder money to her friends?

  45. 45.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 9:04 pm

    @WaterGirl: Right around the time of the murder he left America to go home to SA with little notice. From there he said he had no knowledge of the Khashoggi murder, but people were wondering if he was telling the truth. Now the CIA has practically come out and said “We have you, on tape, dude,” and he is still denying it. Probably afraid for his life.

  46. 46.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 16, 2018 at 9:06 pm

    @TS (the original): “Barron, first of his name…if you don’t count his sire’s alter-ego”

  47. 47.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 9:07 pm

    @trnc:
    I don’t know for sure what Melania is doing on her overseas trips, but spending a lot of money at a hotel during a day trip isn’t necessarily suspicious or out of line. The FLOTUS job has traditionally involved a lot of PR-type work, and that can involve things like public banquets, meetings, etc. If she’s doing them in a foreign country, she wouldn’t have access to government facilities, so she’d have to hold them at some place where she could rent space, and a hotel would be a natural choice. I’m not saying these expenditures are money well spent, but it would be good to see if previous FLOTUSes spent lots of money at hotel banquet facilities before complaining about Melania.

  48. 48.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    @Spikester: Billy Shakes has a thing about true love. Not sure anyone else does.

  49. 49.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 9:09 pm

    @Mary G: Thanks for the info! I guess I had heard the first part but hadn’t connected that to what you were saying, but that makes sense.

    “Probably afraid for his life.” I should probably have a problem with that, but I read what you wrote and thought “works for me”. What they did was so evil that I guess I think they reap what they sow.

  50. 50.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    @rikyrah: Who amongst us hasn’t spent $174K at a hotel for less than one night’s stay?

  51. 51.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    @Roger Moore: The article mentioned Michelle Obama having racked up 18k in hotel rooms on a 10-day trip. Maybe to Copenhagen?

    So it sounds like the spending was WAY out of line.

  52. 52.

    Yarrow

    November 16, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    @Corner Stone: Just last week I was thinking I needed to take a day trip and was estimating it would cost about $174K. As it does most times.

  53. 53.

    Amir Khalid

    November 16, 2018 at 9:16 pm

    @debbie:
    Trying to barter John Bolton away will not work. If anyone had something of comparable value, they’d have thrown it away by now.

  54. 54.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 9:19 pm

    @Yarrow: It really comes down to the right mix of staff handling the Third Lady’s unmentionables. You have to have the appropriate venue and talent taking care of the pinks and the purples that keep Melania at the Top of Her Game.
    Money well spent, if one asks me.

  55. 55.

    Yarrow

    November 16, 2018 at 9:20 pm

    @Corner Stone: It definitely takes top talent to #BeBest.

  56. 56.

    debbie

    November 16, 2018 at 9:23 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    ?

  57. 57.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    Stay away from the Toblerones, man!

  58. 58.

    Platonailedit

    November 16, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    I’m getting a migraine just imagining what Trump’s answers to Mueller’s questions would look like if he actually wrote them himself.
    — Bradley P. Moss (@BradMossEsq) November 16, 2018

    The worst (or the best?) shitshow ever?

  59. 59.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Mohammed Bone Saw’s brother is denying the reports that he is the one who phoned and texted Kashoggi, providing him with assurances of safe passage, and luring him to the Consulate,

    Despite the Turks releasing the texts and tapes to the Intelligence communities world wide.

  60. 60.

    FelonyGovt

    November 16, 2018 at 9:31 pm

    One of the many, many things that makes me apoplectic about the White House crime family is that US taxpayers are having to subsidize their extravagant, wasteful, tacky lifestyle.

  61. 61.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 16, 2018 at 9:32 pm

    @Platonailedit: All in crayon.

  62. 62.

    Luciamia

    November 16, 2018 at 9:34 pm

    Has it been explained why they saw Khasshogi as such a threat, that he had to die?

  63. 63.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 9:34 pm

    @Yarrow:

    ““Miscellaneous foreign awardees?” What in the world are those? Ways to launder money to her friends?”

    Yes, she and Barron are going to need a place to crash on the couch soon,

    and Slovenia doesn’t want her back.

  64. 64.

    Ken B

    November 16, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    @debbie:
    Perhaps a sincere promise to put him on trial for various and sundry war crimes?

  65. 65.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 9:37 pm

    @Luciamia:

    No.

    Speculation is, that as a well connected, “insider” in the Sawdi Royalty, he’s someone who’s criticism and contacts could create a “Palace Revolt” against Prince Mohammed Bone Saw.

  66. 66.

    Platonailedit

    November 16, 2018 at 9:39 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    1. You are the puppet
    2. You are the puppet
    3. You are the puppet
    …
    15. Fake news!

  67. 67.

    Luciamia

    November 16, 2018 at 9:39 pm

    @TS (the original): Maybe she’s just a really good tipper.

  68. 68.

    Miss Bianca

    November 16, 2018 at 9:41 pm

    @Amir Khalid: And you, sir, have just won this evening’s Internets.

  69. 69.

    Middlelee

    November 16, 2018 at 9:45 pm

    @Schlemazel:
    Omigod. Thank you for that!

  70. 70.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 16, 2018 at 9:47 pm

    @Yutsano:
    There is nothing wrong with a Trophy Wife either. It is merely a longer term contract prostitute. The wrong is in Melania herself, and a lot of it.

  71. 71.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 9:48 pm

    @FelonyGovt: Not really a big deal to me. I never had a problem when the Obama’s spent $90B on their trip to India.

  72. 72.

    Amir Khalid

    November 16, 2018 at 9:49 pm

    @Luciamia:
    I’ve seen his Wikipedia entry with the Arabic spelling of his surname. If anyone’s interested, a closer transliteration would (for me) be Khashuqji.

  73. 73.

    kindness

    November 16, 2018 at 9:49 pm

    $174 K. That’s a lot of smashed TVs.

  74. 74.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 9:50 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The wrong is in Melania herself, and a lot of it.

    If Stormy is to be believed then there really was never a lot of wrong in Melania.

  75. 75.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 16, 2018 at 9:52 pm

    @Luciamia: A serious stretch. My experience with overfunded people is that they’re assholes and expect to be given things for free that mere mortals must pay for. And they tip for shit.

  76. 76.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 16, 2018 at 9:52 pm

    @Amir Khalid: “Kash” for short?

  77. 77.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 16, 2018 at 9:54 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    Okay, I salute you for this one. Bravo.

  78. 78.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    BTW, the Insane Clown POSus’s nominee for the serial violent gang rapist Bart Kavenaugh’s old Judge seat is not only a Federalist,

    but a staunch and strident defender of ‘Merkin’s unassailable right to toss dwarves.

  79. 79.

    Skepticat

    November 16, 2018 at 10:00 pm

    @JDM:

    How many times have I told you, Melania, never open the minibar!

    Wine is very hard to clean off a keyboard. Curse you (but thanks), JDM.

  80. 80.

    Platonailedit

    November 16, 2018 at 10:00 pm

    Big news out of Arizona: Democrat Katie Hobbs has declared victory in Arizona's Secretary of State race over Republican Steve Gaynor. Gov. Ducey called to congratulate Hobbs. The victory could have big implications for 2020.

    https://t.co/AjMXikzVjq— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 17, 2018

    Fuck FL. AZ, NC and TX should be the dems’ future ‘battleground states’.

  81. 81.

    J R in WV

    November 16, 2018 at 10:05 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    If Michelle Obama had spent nearly $200K on a foreign trip without even spending a night, can you imagine the decibel level of the racist Russo-Republicans’ shout of outrage?

  82. 82.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    November 16, 2018 at 10:06 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    By Sunday Trump will be on TV to attack the CIA as “Enemy of the PEOPLE!”

    He already did that in Jan 2017 when he called them “Nazis”

  83. 83.

    sm*t cl*de

    November 16, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    @Luciamia:

    Has it been explained why they saw Khasshogi as such a threat, that he had to die?

    He disrespected the Crown Prince.

  84. 84.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 10:16 pm

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    I thought The Insane KKKlown POSus thot Nazi’s were “very fine people”?

  85. 85.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 10:22 pm

    “My two lunch companions believe otherwise. They belong to a small group of about a dozen members from the intelligence and special operations community pushing the theory that Paddock’s rampage was part of a coordinated anti-Trump plot involving the Islamic State and Antifa, or left-wing “anti-fascist” activists.

    I know, it sounds nuts.

    The idea sprang from the twisted, feverish mind of Infowars’ Alex Jones days after the Vegas attack. “They found Antifa information in the room,” Jones claimed in one telecast. “The whole thing has the hallmarks of being scripted by deep-state Democrats and their Islamic allies using mental-patient cutouts,” he said. Others of his ilk then amplified the unsubstantiated Antifa-ISIS allegations on social media in what became a frothy concoction of phony tweets, Facebook posts and YouTube videos.”

    https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/11/conspiracy-go-go-in-right-wing.html?m=1

  86. 86.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 10:29 pm

    Btw, it’s the 666th day of The Insane KKKlown POSus’s presidency and the God Botherer’s are busy sacrificing humans, yet again, in celibration.

  87. 87.

    Amir Khalid

    November 16, 2018 at 10:38 pm

    @Luciamia:
    Well, Jamal Khashuqji was a journalist who exposed embarrassing things about Saudi rule, and a liberal activist who campaigned for a more open society in his country. Of course he was a mortal threat.

  88. 88.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 10:43 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    He was also a former “insider” to the Sawdi Regime.

    That made him doubly dangerous.

  89. 89.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    Btw, thank you Amir for the “correct” spelling of his name.

    Names are important.

  90. 90.

    sukabi

    November 16, 2018 at 10:51 pm

    @TS (the original): I’m guessing she’s using those hotels as cover for her personal shopping…buys jewelry and designer clothes and has the shops bill it to her hotel room.

  91. 91.

    Gary K

    November 16, 2018 at 10:58 pm

    I clicked through to one of the documents and discovered the room bill covered the dates from September 12 to 24, whereas the trip was exclusively on the 23rd. Huh?

  92. 92.

    karen marie

    November 16, 2018 at 11:04 pm

    She delivers a speech that was one minute, 15 seconds long.

    On what planet is speaking for 75 seconds actually considered “a speech”?

  93. 93.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 11:09 pm

    @Gary K:

    I guess her evil 12 day plan to trade up failed in less than a day,

    75 seconds really.

  94. 94.

    Kay

    November 16, 2018 at 11:10 pm

    @Gary K:

    It’s very confusing. There’s an advance team but they’re billed separately so while it sounds like “advance team” explains it, it doesn’t really, because you still have those huge charges + 18k for advance team.

    I myself am hoping Donald Trump managed to get ripped off on a hotel bill.

  95. 95.

    Amir Khalid

    November 16, 2018 at 11:11 pm

    @Gary K:
    I can imagine FLOTUS needing a staging area, depending on what she was doing in Canada, and the Secret Service needing to conduct a security sweep thereof. But I can’t conceive of it needing to take that long or cost that much.

  96. 96.

    karen marie

    November 16, 2018 at 11:18 pm

    @A Ghost To Most: I still want to know what Erdogan’s game is here. This shit doesn’t happen without the Saudis thinking Erdogan is cool, and then he turns around and rats them out?

    I still haven’t seen anything that convinces me that the 2016 “coup” wasn’t set up by Erdogan as a means of ridding himself of a whole lot of opposition without having to deal with complaints from other countries. How was that bullshit coup story swallowed whole by everyone?

    Prior to Wednesday’s [April 26, 2017] arrests, figures from the Turkish Interior Ministry showed that 113,260 people in total had been arrested or detained since the failed coup nine months ago, which left 248 people dead. Of that number, almost 47,000 have been arrested on specific charges. Those arrested include members of the police, military,and judiciary, as well as civil servants and journalists. Erdoğan’s crackdown also extends to the media, with 179 outlets being shuttered in 2016 alone.

    Really? Nothing going on? Nothing to see here?

    None of it passes the smell test, from where I’m sitting.

  97. 97.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 16, 2018 at 11:20 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks for your confidence! However, keep in mind that I can be as wrong as anyone!

  98. 98.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    November 16, 2018 at 11:23 pm

    @Kay: Not a chance, it was probably one of his hotels.

  99. 99.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    @karen marie:

    You know that members of the Turkish Airforce used F-16’s to try to take down Ergodan’s aircraft on the night if the Coup and strafed the Presidential Palace, right?

    Google the Grey Wolves, Operation Gladio, Gullen Movement.

    There are a lot of “factions” that Egodan both “used and abused” to gain and expand his power.

    Is Egodan using the Coup to repress dissent? yes.

    Are the Sawdi’s Ergodan’s allies? no.

    Is Turkey involved in a regional power/economic struggle with Sawdi Arabia? Yes.

    Is Turkey using Khashuqji‘s murder to try to leverage “the West” for Turkey and against Sawdi Arabia? Yup.

  100. 100.

    jonas

    November 16, 2018 at 11:46 pm

    @J R in WV: RW websites, Fox, and talk radio were in a continual lather for eight years over the Obamas’ purported squandering of taxpayer dollars on lavish vacations and other perks (steaks, Cadillacs…you get the picture). As usual, every accusation turned out to be a confession.

  101. 101.

    sdhays

    November 16, 2018 at 11:56 pm

    Perhaps THLOTUS got curious about what all the hubbub was about the “pee pee tape” and had some Canadian male hookers pee on the bed with Russian spies filming. Cleanup costs add up.

  102. 102.

    karen marie

    November 17, 2018 at 12:04 am

    @Jay: Yeah, but so what? The whole thing could have been a set up. He was very conveniently out of the country. I just never bought it. It was all entirely too convenient for Mr. President For Life Erdogan.

    “Is Turkey involved in a regional power/economic struggle with Sawdi Arabia? Yes.”

    So why would the Saudis lure Khashoggi there to kill him? That makes no sense to me either.

  103. 103.

    sdhays

    November 17, 2018 at 12:28 am

    @karen marie: Because they had to trick him to go somewhere he thought he would still be safe but that would reduce their risk if they got caught. Murdering him in the US would have been too risky – that could have had the potential to bring down the monarchy (not saying it would, but the potential for crazy consequences would be there). So they settled on Turkey. But they’re much more arrogant than they are bright and horribly miscalculated how interested Turkey would be in them murdering people on Turkish soil.

    Be careful not to give these horrible people too much credit as evil masterminds.

  104. 104.

    karen marie

    November 17, 2018 at 12:38 am

    @sdhays: I’m not so much giving any of them credit (including Erdogan) for being evil masterminds as simply very skeptical that there isn’t a whole lot of deal making between, say, the CIA and Erdogan, as there has been with the Saudis. There are significantly over 100,000 people that Erdogan has imprisoned or disappeared, and nobody ever says a peep. I fail to understand why that would be so in the absence of some kind of agreement for everyone to act like nothing’s been going on.

  105. 105.

    Jay

    November 17, 2018 at 12:42 am

    @karen marie:

    Khashuqji was a former power player inside the Sawdi Arabia Ruleing Class,

    He became an actual “reformer” which will Prince Jared assure you is a rare thing.

    This put him, and his exile, at odds with Prince Mohammed Bone Saw and his agenda, like the hundreds of other Saudi Reformers inside and outside the Kingdom that have been disappeared, murdered, tortured, cruicified and stoned to death of late.

    If you want to “Blame Turkey” instead and cite Sawdi Propaganda instead, you should just say it rather than “just be asking questions”, like a common paid Sawdi troll,

    We here at Jackal HQ are well aware of that game.

  106. 106.

    Jay

    November 17, 2018 at 12:46 am

    @karen marie:

    There’s lot’s of commentary on Ergodans abuse of process.

    Just not in the USA.

    Trump’s constant puke funnel has completely drowned out the reat if the world in the US MSM.

  107. 107.

    dimmsdale

    November 17, 2018 at 12:47 am

    Since it’s an open thread, I’ll pose this question, only partly in jest: Can an award of the Presidential Medal of Freedom be revoked by the succeeding president?

  108. 108.

    karen marie

    November 17, 2018 at 1:18 am

    @Jay: No, you absolutely misunderstand me. I’m not citing Saudi propaganda about anything here. I am just curious as to why people are doing what they’re doing – mostly what Erdogan’s game is here. I don’t need the CIA to confirm that MBS had Khashoggi murdered. That’s been obvious since the news first came out. I’m just trying to understand – as I’ve said – what Erdogan is gaining by fucking with the Saudis – and everyone, really. What’s up with all the conflicting claims of recordings, including an Apple watch, most of which have been debunked?

    Where did I “blame Turkey” or even remotely suggest that Erdogan murdered Khashoggi? I didn’t. Again – I’m curious as to what Erdogan’s game is, because it’s clear he’s playing at something.

    And you know what? Fuck you for assuming I’m a “paid Saudi troll” because you have reading comprehension issues, or are simply incapable of asking a person to clarify.

  109. 109.

    sm*t cl*de

    November 17, 2018 at 1:44 am

    @sdhays:

    Be careful not to give these horrible people too much credit as evil masterminds.

    I am impressed how well the US political / media classes have convinced themselves that Crown Prince Bonesaw is a liberal-minded, Western-educated reformer, and the only person who can bring stability to the Middle East, at the cost of occasionally autocratic tactics. It is more pleasant to believe than “giggling, emotionally-fragile, psychopathic little dumb-arse, the latest scion of a clan of inbred camel-humpers who lucked into possession of immense resources because the British found it convenient to give Arabia to them back in the days of Empire”.

    This will not end well.

  110. 110.

    Jay

    November 17, 2018 at 1:49 am

    @karen marie:

    So, in Irbil, Ergodan is backing the FSA remainnents against the Kingdom of Sawdi Arabia backed al Quid-a groups.

    In Northern Iraq, the Kingdom of Sawdi Arabia and Israel are backing the Kurds against the Shia majority and the Sunni Minority which is bleeding over into Turkey’s Kurds with weapons, training and actvism.

    Sawdi Arabia and Israel have been pushing hard on the US for a new war on Iran, and the Islamophobia/Wahabbist wars in the “rest of Islam” have not “been kind” to the Turkish Economy or Turkish “polity”.

    For Turkey, the best way to stop a US/Iran War is to “neuter” the Kingdom of Sawdi Arabia in the US.

  111. 111.

    Jay

    November 17, 2018 at 1:51 am

    @sm*t cl*de:

    The Sawdi’s spend over $20 billion dollars a year on US politicians to create that impression.

  112. 112.

    pinacacci

    November 17, 2018 at 2:05 am

    @sm*t cl*de:
    wow really

  113. 113.

    Amir Khalid

    November 17, 2018 at 2:43 am

    @dimmsdale:
    This was discussed here very recently. Apparently no Medal of Freedom has ever been revoked, and there is not an established process for revocation. As this Medal was created by a President (JFK) I suppose Trump could issue an executive order revoking one or more medals awarded by Obama — or for that matter by JFK — for any reason or none at all, but I doubt der Scheißgibbon has the testicular fortitude.

  114. 114.

    sm*t cl*de

    November 17, 2018 at 3:13 am

    @pinacacci:

    wow really

    Yeah really. About all that US audiences have seen of Crowd Prince Cockwomble is his combination of insecurity, ruthlessness and greed, when he imprisoned his relatives until they swore fealty and gave him lots of money. His main qualification for the job is that his father is spiraling rapidly into Alzheimers’ dementia and anointed whichever of his sons won the Regan / Goneril / Cordelia dicklicking competition.
    It escapes me why US politicians would choose such a doomed dipstick as the focus of their hopes for future Middle Eastern partnership. It must be an ingrained, counterfactual tendency to associate “authoritarian thug” with “stability”.

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne

    November 17, 2018 at 3:34 am

    @Jay:

    karen marie has been commenting here years longer than you have, jackass.

  116. 116.

    Ian R

    November 17, 2018 at 4:56 am

    @Platonailedit:

    Fuck FL. AZ, NC and TX should be the dems’ future ‘battleground states’.

    While I’m emotionally inclined to agree, let’s see what the 1.5 million people who just got their voting rights restored in FL do to the political landscape before we write FL off.

  117. 117.

    Shalimar

    November 17, 2018 at 5:14 am

    @karen marie: Erdogan’s game doesn’t seem complicated to me. He is leveraging Turkey’s evidence of what actually happened and his knowledge of how badly he knows Trump and Kushner want to protect MBS to get something valuable in return for not releasing that evidence to media.

  118. 118.

    Jay

    November 17, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    @Shalimar:

    Except that Ergodan’s broadcast it globally. Canada has it, Britain has it, France has it , Gemany has it,

    You can’t trade away “the evidence” for a favour, weapons or cash, to allow Prince Mohammed Bone Saw to be protected,

    When you have made it public.

    It’s more about “neutering” the Sawdis through Sanctions.

  119. 119.

    Jay

    November 17, 2018 at 4:40 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Dont you have some Democrats not Democrating “right” to lynch?

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