The New York Times dives into the President’s unwillingness to make a visit to US military personnel deployed in combat zones. Here’s the real important part of the article:
One reason he has not visited troops in war zones, according to his aides, is that he does not really want American troops there in the first place. To visit, they said, would validate missions he does not truly believe in.
There is a very simple solution if the President doesn’t want US military personnel deployed to these war zones or conducting these operations because he doesn’t believe that the US military should be conducting them: ORDER THEM HOME!!!!!
Every single one of these deployments, from Operation Inherent Resolve in Iraq and Syria to Operation Freedom Sentinel in Afghanistan to every aid, advise, and assist mission conducted by both conventional and Special Operations forces, to every lethal/kinetic Special Operations mission covered under JSOC’s remit are all conducted solely under the authority of the President. Either authority provided to the President by the 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Force or the authority the President has to order short term, renewable contingency operations as long as the President both notifies Congress about them and Congress is willing to fund them.
If the current President of the United States believes that these campaigns, operations, and missions are wrong, should either never have been initially authorized or not repeatedly reauthorized, and doesn’t believe in the missions, the US military’s ability to complete the mission, or some combination of these reasons, then he needs to issue clear orders ending these assignments and return the US military personnel deployed to conduct them home. There is no declaration of war that creates a constitutionally rooted, statutory requirement that US personnel be deployed to defend the US and its interests that complicates this. Right now there are Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Service civilians deployed in harm’s way. Leaving them to face danger, when the President doesn’t believe they need to be there is a gross dereliction of his duty. If the President doesn’t believe in the missions these Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and DOD, Department of the Army, Navy, and/or Air Force civilians are tasked with carrying out under his authority as Commander in Chief, then he needs to end them. Immediately. If he can’t bring himself to do so because he’s too much of a coward, then he has a responsibility to visit US military personnel deployed abroad, to attend to memorial services at Arlington and other national cemeteries and monuments, both within and without the US. If he can’t bring himself to do either of these – ending missions he doesn’t believe in or actually attending to his duties and obligations to the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Service civilians deployed in harm’s way under his authority, then he needs to resign.
We are off the looking glass and through the map!
Open thread.
TenguPhule
Required proof of human being not in evidence.
waspuppet
This’ll just be another one filed under Well, You Know He’s Basically Addled …
dmsilev
Adam, are you perhaps hinting at, suggesting even, that Trump’s aides may have been less than honest and forthright in the reasons they gave for Trump’s reluctance to visit US troops overseas? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.
TenguPhule
House Republicans to subpoena Comey, Lynch in probe of FBI and Justice Dept.
Popcorn or pitchforks?
ruemara
Read that this morning. The least it is, is disturbing.
NotoriousJRT
@TenguPhule:
Why not both?
dmsilev
@TenguPhule: Fight the subpoenas. Shouldn’t be too hard to drag the fight out for a month, after which the problem goes away since sane people will then be in charge of the committees.
Schlemazel
We need to check the weather before calling them home. As I understand it our helicopters can’t fly in a drizzle
All administrations throw a certain amount of BS, it is necessary to maintain the message of the day. But even Boy Blunder’s admin managed to be relatively consistent as they stumbled into Iraq and fiddled while New Orleans drown.
This group of incompetents just throws stupid shit at the wall & hopes some of it sticks
Mary G
Righteous rant, Adam. Give em hell. We waste some of our best people on these stupid missions. Imagine what the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Airwomen, Marines, and Service civilians could be contributing to the country if they didn’t have to sit around some hellhole so the politicians in Washington can look tough.
Roger Moore
I would argue he has a duty as head of state to attend memorial services and similar events at national cemeteries and monuments in any case. Even if he disapproves of our current crop of wars, that doesn’t justify dismissing the service and sacrifice of veterans from previous wars. It doesn’t even justify dismissing the sacrifice of our military personnel serving today. It’s just a thin and meager excuse for his unwillingness to carry out the normal ceremonial duties of the head of state.
Mike in NC
I think the troops on the border will be left there through Thanksgiving, or possibly even Christmas. Trump is in a deep funk and can’t be bothered to justify his actions (or inactions, as the case may be). Scuttlebutt lately has been that both Kelly and Mattis will be fired before the end of the year. Maybe he’ll direct them to fire each other since he’s too cowardly to do it himself.
Litlebritdifrnt
Trump says “he should have gone to Arlington” which means he is going to start blaming his staffers in 3, 2, 1……
Aleta
The key part is “according to his aides” (in speaking to the NYT). As always, motivation, truthfulness and what’s up with Kelly and other staff are in question.
Mary G
Attn Masshole Juicers:
schrodingers_cat
After General Theranos and Kelly’s protege showboating at the border earlier this week, are the troops at the border free to go home? Or must they continue the charade even though the elections are over?
feloniousferb
I’ve been reading this blog for years. Never commented. As a veteran of OIF and OEF I’d like to tell you Adam, Thank You for writing this! If he can’t be bothered to visit service members stationed in combat zones and he’s going to use some bullshit excuse like he doesn’t want to “legitimize” them then you are absolutely correct. Send them home, resign, stop lying about being a lazy, fucking coward. There is nothing that pisses me off more than blind republican allegiance by the military to republican cowards.
schrodingers_cat
@Mary G: He is not my representative. I have no idea where Amesbury is either.
Brachiator
Trump’s approval among the military:
Kraux Pas
@Mary G: I’m working, but I’ll see if I can get my shift switched. My rep supports Pelosi, so good.
A Ghost To Most
No sense trying to make sense of nonsense.
Shit Hitler is a madman, backed by seditionists.
People need to go to jail.
Barbara
How long ago was it that when people said that they opposed the purpose or implementation of a military mission they were accused of being unpatriotic and undermining military personnel and their families? Donald Trump gets to casually say that all those people he continues to authorize for deployment to places where they are directly in harm’s way are not worth visiting because he doesn’t believe in the mission anyway. I find that unbelievable, that it’s true, that they said it, that they thought it would be viewed as exculpatory. But if it is true then he is, basically, the only person who has the authority to change the narrative.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
At a minimum they’re stuck there till December 15, according to the last story I read on Wapo.
I suspect most of them are going to miss Christmas and New Tears away from family and friends.
Schlemazel
@Brachiator:
Given the amount of pro-GOP propaganda our troops are force fed those are stunning numbers
Roger Moore
@schrodingers_cat:
They have to stay there until somebody reminds Trump it’s time to send them home.
Baud
@Aleta: This.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
Even split? Well that inspires no end of confidence in me that our military will stick together and not break down into its own internal battles should push come to shove on confronting the American Nazis. //s
Kraux Pas
@Barbara:
I never agreed with this notion; but I’ll make an exception for someone who claims to be against these missions, has the sole authority to do something about it, and fucking doesn’t.
Jay
@dmsilev:
It’s the Senate Judiciary Commitee, not the House’s.
It’s going to remain a Clown Show for the next 2 years and 1 1/2 months.
Frankensteinbeck
DINGDINGDINGDING. You want him to make a major military action? No way. Someone might yell at him! Worse, what if it turns out badly and he doesn’t look manly? Remember that botched raid? This military stuff is harder than he was told it would be!
Gallows humor at its finest, and deliberate, I know.
No god damn way. A narcissist cannot survive without external validation. He can’t give up a title as impressive as ‘President of the United States’, no matter how much it’s torturing him. Suicide is an option, though, even for a coward on his scale. I suppose the Secret Service would make that very hard to do.
@Brachiator:
Isn’t the military normally overwhelmingly Republican?
Jay
@TenguPhule:
The Military Times digs into the divide.
a large majority of Officers, Women, LBGTQ, POC disapprove of The Insane Clown POSus,
a majority of white, male “grunts” approve of The Insane Clown POSus.
japa21
That word in bold is the essence of Trump’s character. The term could also apply to most of the Republican Party.
danielx
@schrodingers_cat:
You know, it’s amazing how Hair Furor felt strongly enough about the threat of the immigrant caravan to address it multiple times a day and order the deployment of the equivalent of a full brigade of troops to address this threat – you know, the one consisting of unarmed women and children.
Since then….crickets. Almost like he really didn’t give a shit except to use it as a political lever for the elections. I believe in some circles this is known as a co-inky-dink.
Roger Moore
@Jay:
When you remember that officers tend to be better educated than enlisted people, it falls neatly in line with the rest of the country. Poorly educated whites love Trump. Educated white men are divided on him. Educated white women dislike him, and minorities loath him.
Brachiator
@Schlemazel:
Part of this may be because Trump has increased military spending and veteran spending, and also lied about what he has done for veterans, taking credit for Bush and Obama initiatives.
Another bit of data from the article about Trump’s support among the military is quite interesting:
Coming back to Adam’s point, I think that Trump is an old fart, set in his ways, who does not like to travel or be outside his comfort zone. Since there are no Trump hotels in war zones, he is unlikely to want to visit troops there.
germy
Have you seen this video? Trump is happy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aplhmnwktlk
gene108
Trump doesn’t believe in anything beyond his glorification.
These Forever Wars aren’t bringing him the necessary glory.
So why should he care to support them?
But “cutting and running” will only invite criticism from others, so it is also a bad look.
The only path forward that doesn’t immediately hurt his image further is doing nothing.
No risk, fewer chances for failure
Josie
@Jay: No, according to the Post article, it is the House committee that is issuing the subpoenas.
eemom
Jaded as I thought I was, the NYT continues to amaze me. Today’s headline:
Key quote:
No way. Ya gotta be shittin me. Say it ain’t so Joe.
Barbara
@Kraux Pas: It was always a ridiculous notion, and it was clearly intended to stifle legitimate protests about the goal, purpose and methods of military deployments, but I take exception to my exception when it comes to the President of the United States who, even if it wasn’t his idea originally, continues to authorize troops to be deployed in combat zones. You don’t say that you disagree with the mission. You either end the mission or you shut up. It’s unconscionable that anyone thinks this would be acceptable for the president. I mean, imagine if the first lady said it or if Obama had said it or really anybody.
Kraux Pas
@danielx:
No question that focus on the caravan was a cynical election ploy.
But what I wonder is, regardless of what one thinks of our foreign military entanglements, how is any of it less deserving of our military’s attention than a bunch of poor would-be refugees? When was this poll taken in relation to the caravan malarkey. I find it hard to believe that any member of the greatest military force this world has ever known thinks dithering at the US Mexico border is a constructive use of their time.
eemom
OT: Abrams conceded. ?
Fleeting Expletive
My dim R Senator sent me a 5 page single-spaced letter extolling the virtues of Boof-man Kavenaugh after I made several calls to his office. I stewed a bit over responding, wrote a draft, reconsidered, wrote again today. Don’t think I’ll send it though, because what would be the point? But I like the letter, short and sharp but maybe too mean:
Senator XXX: Thank you for your letter to me of 10-26-18. I had composed a reply but I’ve decided that it is fruitless, as events have been moving quickly.
As a red-state Republican Senator you appear to possess a first-class ticket on our Ship of State. The Ship, however, seems to be the Titanic. Please examine your values as well as your partisan preferences. I think if I were in your shoes I’d have a hard time living with my allegiances at this point.
Be Best.
Sincerely,
Me
Kraux Pas
@germy:
On English, not so much. Perhaps he gains sympathy from the English as a second language set? Nah, probably not.
germy
@eemom: Shit.
That sucks.
This won’t be the last time we hear from her. I have high hopes for her future.
Frankensteinbeck
@germy:
For Trump, he does look happy. I suspect someone has sold him a line of bullshit that he’s totally foxed Mueller and is in the clear, so he’ll stop throwing tantrums.
@gene108:
Like I’ve said before, this will be our entire foreign policy during the Trump administration: Trump will talk big, and the United States will sit on our ass and do nothing. Tariffs seem to be the only exception. He seems to love them on a personal level. Backing out of treaties is fine, because it’s a way of doing even more nothing.
Gelfling 545
Completely off topic but I just wanted to say that I finally got around to trying the saffron-honey challah recipe you posted some time ago. It is remarkable. The family are demanding more.
Brachiator
@eemom:
It seems that there are a lot of people who keep waiting for Trump to become … “presidential.” These people will continue to be disappointed.
Kraux Pas
@Fleeting Expletive:
Don’t want us to know which state you’re from or is your Senator a jug of moonshine?
Ruckus
@Frankensteinbeck:
It’s not necessarily different than the country as a whole of their age groups. People go in for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the pay isn’t all that bad for a HS graduate and one gets to travel to “exotic” lands. I know a young guy now stationed in the middle east and his political views are anyone’s guess, but money was a priority for him. He gets regular pay, hazardous duty pay, something else, he’s doing OK money wise. As well he really can’t spend much of it where he is. It was something he and I talked about, he couldn’t believe how much I got paid or more to the point how much I didn’t get paid.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: Yep, it’s largely white male enlisted that are keeping the approve numbers as high as they are.
debbie
I call bullshit on that. He goes to Montana, Alabama, etc., and he sure as hell wouldn’t want to live there. More likely, he’s scared of danger. Or of rain. Or both.
Jay
@Josie:
Muy bad, thanks.
Lapassionara
@eemom: ??
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Nail hit squarely.
As always, it is about him, his comfort, his sight lines, him, him, him…………
Yutsano
@eemom:
I wiil say…you do know how to twist a knife…
zhena gogolia
@feloniousferb:
Keep commenting!
Adam L Silverman
@feloniousferb: You’re quite welcome. As a civilian who deployed to OIF in 2008, prepped to go to Afghanistan, but was sent to Carlisle Barracks, and has been asked to or volunteered to go back to Iraq several times (though those deployments didn’t come through), we are in complete agreement.
And comment as much as you like.
zhena gogolia
@eemom:
Yeah. So sad.
Martin
Look, Trump can’t reasonably be expected to visit combat zones given their motto of “Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.” When y’all can promise he won’t be rained on during these visits, then you’ll get these visits. And it’s not like he’s ignoring the military – he has dinner with Col. Sanders on Air Force One all the damn time.
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
Trump’s bumbling foreign policy moves have increased global insecurity. Pulling out of the treaty with Iran and re-imposing sanctions has been de-stabilizing. Similarly, backing away from the missile treaty with Russia creates an unnecessary vacuum (Pakistan, India, North Korea and other players could work to increase certain classes of missiles). The decision to recognize Jerusalem is a gift that keeps on causing friction.
Trump’s fondness for authoritarians and the absence of an American bully pulpit may have made it easier for various bad regimes to engage in punitive actions against helpless groups.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
If nothing else, Dems have shown that the days of conceding too quickly or of folding like cheap suits are over. Or so I hope.
Adam L Silverman
I’m going to the gym.
Yutsano
@feloniousferb: I shall give you the traditional blog “FUCK YOU!!” and “Thank You For Your Service” needs out of the way.
Thanks for the rant! It’s always good to hear voices who don’t tolerate the nonsense of Dolt45 and Mike Dense. Please feel free to wade with us jackals again.
Jay
Maybe the “reason” why The Insane Clown POSus doesn’t “believe” in “the missions” is because “they arn’t taking the oil”?
Yarrow
I understand that this is what the President, the Commander in Chief, should do. But is there some actual law requiring the President to do things like visit a war zone or go to memorial services? Isn’t it just one more norm that this President has shattered? Like with all the other ones that he’s ignored and bulldozed right through it may be something we have to legislate if we want the President to do it.
This President has shown us again and again he won’t do the right thing. I wouldn’t expect his behavior regarding wars or military related issues to be any different.
Chris T.
@Roger Moore:
Please spell the verb form with a final “e”, loathe. The loath (or loth) spelling is for the adjective. /pedantry /pet peeve
(Who keeps peeves as pets anyway? Well, apparently me!)
Frankensteinbeck
@Brachiator:
I completely agree. Having the US stick its fingers in its ears and go “LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU” is terrible and damaging foreign policy. There are worse options than yelling about how tough you are, then doing nothing, but it’s pretty damn far down the list.
Kraux Pas
@Jay:
I’m betting it’s because he didn’t initiate these missions himself and everyone else is a loozah.
Ruckus
@debbie:
He’s scarred of looking like the buffoon he knows he actually is. He thinks he’s the best president ever, just like he’s the best at everything else he’s ever done. He knows better, but he has never had any idea of how to get better, except lie. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. And his is wasted beyond any hope of repair.
Ruckus
@Yarrow:
He’d have to understand that there is a right thing and a wrong thing and that which he thinks are which is entirely wrong.
Also isn’t why his adoring fans like him, that he is always on the wrong side of things, as they are?
Yutsano
@eemom: @debbie: Maybe she can be the next African-American Senator from Georgia. If a fair election can be administered there she could probably take out Perdue especially if Kemp keeps his thumb off the scales.
Gvg
He is an obvious coward.
TenguPhule
@Frankensteinbeck:
Sounds good to me.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Mike in NC: Ordering two of his staff to fire each other at the same time will likely be one truly amusing thing Trump will have done during his presidency.
debbie
@Ruckus:
I wonder if his current mood is his acknowledgement that there are people — lots of people — who don’t think he’s the best president ever. Maybe his over-self-confidence is beginning to crumble!
Yarrow
You expect this guy to understand anything about anything?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Fleeting Expletive: Actually, I like that – gets the point across without a personal attack on the people you are addressing.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mary G: There are no such thing as Airwomen, Air Force enlisted personnel are Airmen regardless of gender.
Ruckus
@Yarrow:
No.
And neither was there probably much thought about this up until recently. First presidents have gone to services and the like. But a president in a war zone is unlikely at any time. I can’t recall any such visits in history, although I’m sure I’ll get corrected forthwith. But visits to bases, to see outgoing troops off, yes that has happened. There is a thing called reviewing the troops, there have been presidents visiting military hospitals, etc. Most troops don’t want to go to a war zone. They will go, it’s necessary but the president? No, I doubt it will ever happen.
Yarrow
Mary G
Excellent thread on the stupidity of not allowing visas to foreign college students:
Yarrow
@Ruckus: I know Trump has visited some military personnel somewhere. I remember seeing a photo of him giving a speech and them behind him. No idea where that was or how many times.
feloniousferb
Adam, when I read that you took the job at Carlisle I was very happy for you. My wife is from ‘over the hill’ in Duncannon and, when we were dating, I’d get a room at the BOQ at Carlisle to ‘impress her’. As USMC, it was nice to see the Army’s Officer “school house” and take in the history; who has been there and what it means to them.
To those who “welcomed me” (looking at you Yutsano, in particular (typed with a smile)) I am very appreciative. I love the comments here, love the variety and depth of experience here.
Yutsano
@Yarrow: He’s done a few of those (can’t recall exactly where or when) but all have been domestic. I don’t think he’s taken even ten overseas trips as a President yet.
eemom
@Yutsano:
As the kids say, the word “if” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.
MoxieM
@schrodingers_cat: up at the Merrimac River, near Haverhill (east of Lawrence, NW of Lowell). It’s a fair drive from our Western bucolic regions. It’s a cool place, reinvented former failing industrial city–like Holyoke could be if –I dunno whatever– by the sea. I believe Moulton is a Rep from Essex Co, which would include that area. Tends conservative, so yaknow.
Ruckus
@Yarrow:
No.
My expectations for people like drumpf is that he will always say and do the wrong thing.
Look at the people that like him. Can you say any different than what I’ve just said about them? I can. It’s possible that some of them could have what we used to call a come to jesus moment. He has never had one of those his entire life. And never will. If he ever does you will know because he will spontaneously combust.
TenguPhule
Breaking at Wapo.
This is my shocked face. : |
StringOnAStick
@Yarrow: “Raked out”? Who the fuck thinks that forests are raked like Merde a lardass? I’ve done lots of work in forests in my prior career and spend a lot of time in them now for recreation, and “raking out” the forest is one of his stupider lies yet.
Colorado is about to start their annual controlled burns. We can do that here because soil moisture is adequate and we’ve had a early shot of significant snow. CA is suffering from a prolonged dry spell with very low soil moisture; the standing live trees in many places have a lower moisture content than certified kiln dried lumber. Scientists are saying that the elevation that can support forest has risen 1,000 feet. That means that anything in that “old” elevation up to the “new” forest level will likely burn and won’t regrow. It also means that doing controlled burns to reduce forest fuels is basically impossible in the current situation.
Not that I would expect Mango Moron to understand the concept of soil moisture. All he can think of is to get more H1B’s like he does when he needs laborers, get them to “rake out” the forests. Yeah, sure; that will work.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I have to say, this prehapas the first time we have had a president completely not interested in the office. I’ve had them incapacitated like Wilson or broken by a crises like Buchanan, but never just doesn’t care.
Trump, the first slacker president.
Yutsano
@eemom: I just read the Hill article about Abrams conceding. She is definitively not going gentle into that good night. In fact, her lawsuit about the Kemp mismanagement is still going forward. So it’s possible some good will come at the end of this.
@feloniousferb: O ye gods another Teufelhund. :P The story about wooing your wife was sweet. Pet pictures are also mandatory.
(And if you want a Doberman I know a good breeder in California who has some great lines)
zhena gogolia
@TenguPhule:
You should watch the video the NYT posted. It is chilling AF.
rsginsf
You know that Trump cannot stand the sight of blood (documented fact I’ll let you google–try ‘trump mar-a-lago blood’). In my view, that is why he won’t visit (plus his obvious and also-well-documented cowardice): he might glimpse the sight of a bloody bandage and faint, right there on camera. So sad! So embarrassing!
KSinMA
@Martin: Um, pretty sure “Neither snow nor rain nor heat,” etc., is the motto of the U.S. Post Office, not the armed forces (no idea whether the USPS adopted it).
/pedant
japa21
@Ruckus: Well, if you exclude Obama, Bush the lesser, Clinton, Bush the Elder, Reagan, Nixon, LBJ, Eisenhower and debatable re FDR, you would be correct.
Baud
Old white guys on Ari wants Nancy gone.
Mary G
The drip, drip, drip is becoming a flood. Moar leaking to WaPo by the IC:
KSinMA
@TenguPhule: Imagine that!
Yutsano
@japa21: I thought Carter and Truman managed to get a visit in as well. Maybe not.
TenguPhule
Because that was obviously their most pressing concern
JGabriel
NYTimes via Adam Silverman @ Top:
OR, Trump is too cowardly to visit a combat zone, just as he was when he got his bone spur deferments, AND, he’s too chicken to admit it, so he came up with a different excuse to give people.
I mean, seriously, are we really going to start taking Trump’s word on anything at this late date?
(Though I certainly have no qualms about using his own words against him to suggest he should bring the troops home, or fulfill his obligations to them, or resign – as you point out, Adam.)
japa21
@Yutsano: They may have, just did the ones I could find quickly. Hey, I think even Lincoln did.
Baud
@TenguPhule: That would be my first concern if I had just killed someone.
TenguPhule
@StringOnAStick:
Actually I’m pretty sure it doesn’t even break into the top twenty.
“Photo IDS to buy cereal” is one of the new greatest worsts.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
That’s why you’re supposed to prepare for disposal before you kill the victim, not after.
trollhattan
@Fleeting Expletive:
Nice touch.
Martin
@Ruckus: Well, if we look at the history of Presidents, they’re full of characters like Grant and TR and Ike and Kennedy and Bush Sr that served often with distinction. And lots of them did go to relatively hostile areas. FDR went to Casablanca during the Tripoli offensive. Ike went to Korea, LBJ and Nixon each went to Vietnam. Keeping in mind that we didn’t have the kind of total visibility that we have now, there was some risk in those visits. Nobody would have accused Ike or Kennedy of being a coward, and those presidents that didn’t serve often visited. It seems that historically there’s two standards – serve and you are excused from visiting, or don’t serve and visit. And that’s why so many of our latest presidents have visited. But I also think that if a President has been critical of a war, as Obama and Trump have been, that they have an additional responsibility to visit, because they need to make clear why they are continuing this thing that they are on record as opposing, and doing that in person is important.
That’s all gotten further complicated (not in a good way) moving to a professional army.
Adam L Silverman
@feloniousferb: I was on faculty team every year if my assignment there with the Marine Senior Service rep. I enjoyed many a first Thursday with the Marines at Alibis and being invited to the USMC birthday dinner.
Baud
@TenguPhule: Lessons learned.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
it will be on the final exam.
Viva BrisVegas
@Yarrow:
It will be fun to see how Clarence Thomas manages to rule in favor of Trump while at the same time contradicting his previous rulings.
Scalia used to do such hypocrisy with style, Thomas will do it with a pratfall.
Martin
@KSinMA: Pretty sure Trump believes that’s the motto for the Marines.
Mike in DC
@Mary G: High confidence assessment too. Basically the point at which, in a normal, sane and rational political universe, the shit hits the fan and we read the Saudis the riot act. Instead we get “but muh defens kontrax!”
TenguPhule
Maria Butina, alleged Russian agent who met with NRA and other groups, is in plea talks
Sing little birdy, sing!
Martin
@TenguPhule: “Excuse me, would you please stand on this plastic tarp? Oh, don’t mind the 55 gallon drum, we’ll take care of that momentarily.”
Ruckus
@debbie:
The easy thing to remember is that he’s a massive narcissist. Everything is about him. My saying is that his world rotates about the giant stick stuck up his ass. And there is no other world.
He, at some level, knows what is real. He will never, can never admit this – narcissism – but he knows. We all know our short comings. Most of us can at least admit we have them. He can not. He lies, blusters, to attempt to overcome the short comings he knows he has. The fact that he’s been doing this for over 50 yrs makes it pretty settled personality defects for him. The short comings have never gone away and were probably reenforced by his wonderful dad. He’s coped with life with lies at least since he was old enough to be called an adult. But reality is that he’s about 5-7 yrs old, maturity wise.
Oh and he’s president.
TenguPhule
@Ruckus:
I’m sorry, but we are talking about Donald Trump here.
KSinMA
@Martin: I have no doubt of it!
Yutsano
@Adam L Silverman:
Oh sure. Mr. Tiara gets an invite. :P
I’m joking. Every time there was an opportunity my date was somewhere else on the planet.
TenguPhule
This has got to be the biggest understatement in a newpaper byline I have ever seen.
MisterForkbeard
@StringOnAStick: That was my thought, too. You handle forestry through (basically) controlled logging and controlled fires. It’s not the fucking LEAVES that are the problem – it’s the deadwood and dry ground cover that presents the problem.
And even then, a *normal* forest fire would still have been caught by the Santa Ana winds and caused immense damage. The idea that “raking” would have prevented it is patently insane.
trollhattan
@StringOnAStick:
At the end of the day, wingnuts all think we should clearcut ever forest every twenty-five years and that “saving trees and owls” is stupid hippie shit. Donny can shove the rake up his arse.
Click this Camp Fire mapover to satellite view to see how they’ve logged the shit out of the area north of Highway 70, which is exactly the path the fire traveled to Paradise out of the Feather River Canyon origin point in just a couple hours.
“Not raked.” If you want to be helpful Donny, take us back to the days when we had two or three big October storms to end the fire season.
Ruckus
@japa21:
Told you I was probably wrong. It’s my trademark. Be wrong about something every day. Good to see I’m keeping the flame going.
Now.
Is there a list of actual war zones that were visited by which president while in office?
I also may have a narrower view of the term war zone than others.
I’m interested.
MisterForkbeard
@Yutsano: Yeah. Abrams specifically says she’s NOT conceding, because that would imply that Kemp won fairly or deserved it. She basically says that given the actions he’s taken, there’s no plausible way for her to ‘win’ the election so she’s not going to pursue this particular contest any longer, but that it was an illegitimate ‘win’ by Kemp. Which is basically correct.
Instead, she’s starting a new voting rights groups specifically targeting Georgia and Kemp’s various shenanigans. I wish her luck in that and I hope it keeps her profile public.
Mary G
@Mike in DC: It’s a pretty clear diss of MBS, since his own brother was involved:
The Saudis are indignantly denying this, but come on. Why isn’t it obvious to these people that the NSA hears every breath they take on the phone?
This too is a pretty big fuck you to the Saudis, Twitler and Prince Jared:
Same as the president and his family. We’ll let them stay, but we know they are idiots.
Adam L Silverman
@Yutsano: remind me sometime when I’m not in between sets at the gym to tell you the story of how my Marine teammate blew out the seat of his dress blues en route to the dinner one year. And a good time was had by all!
trollhattan
@trollhattan:
Trying map linkie again.
TenguPhule
More then 630 presumed missing in California Fires.
damn.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: This one from Marketwatch still comes out on top, so to speak:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/84221608-C9E4-11E0-A28C-00212803FAD6
TenguPhule
I’m not sure I understand how a protracted legal battle over Kemp and the GOP’s voter suppression harms the cause of voter rights.
Stacey Abrams says she can’t win Georgia governor’s race
Sandia Blanca
@Chris T.: Nice to know I’m not the only one who keeps that peeve for a pet. Same issue applies to breath and breathe, frequently misused. (Also teeth/teethe.)
TenguPhule
But I’m sure everything is just fine. //s
Roger Moore
@Martin:
Nicely garbled. You get full marks.
Schlemazel
@Adam L Silverman:
That headline writer deserves a bonus
Mary G
@TenguPhule: I see her speech not so much as a concession as a declaration of war.
Roger Moore
@Jay:
He doesn’t believe in the missions because he hasn’t figured out how to get his cut. The moment he does, it’ll be all-out war with everyone.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I want old white guys in politics and in the media gone, too. So I guess we’re even?
Schlemazel
@Baud:
I love the fact it is because she is too progressive. Apparently Dump is not the only moron who missed the outcome of last week Tuesday
They cannot be gone too soon.
TenguPhule
@Mary G:
I don’t understand not taking the fight to court. The Republicans do this to us all the time whenever they can, even if its just to eat up time.
TenguPhule
EPA’s top Southeast official out on bail, faces state ethics charges
Only the best people, am i right?
Roger Moore
@KSinMA:
The line was originally from Herodotus and was his description of the Persian imperial courier service. Somebody thought the translation sounded good and put it on one of the big post offices in New York City, and it’s become an unofficial motto of the USPS since then.
Jay
@Ruckus:
Johnson visited Cam Rahn Bay and Saigon.
Things were different then, however. Back then while you might target Military/Security high officials for assasination, the top Political Leaders were mostly left alone, because those wars were “won” through negotiations, not battles,
And if you killed off the top political leaders, there was no way to end the war.
Now of course, the top political leaders are targetted all the time so that the wars never end.
raven
@Jay: Tricky Dick visited the Nam when I was there.
Amir Khalid
@TenguPhule:
That’s a headline, not a byline. A byline is the line that goes “By [reporter’s name]”.
SiubhanDuinne
Open Thread?
I have just downloaded and started reading Michelle Obama’s Becoming. Not even through chapter one yet, but damn!, that lady can write!!
Amir Khalid
@raven:
I reckon you have as much reason to say “Fuck Tricky Dick” as you have to say “Fuck LBJ”.
raven
The people in Paradise can us help.
Donate here.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Did you see Michelle on Jimmy Kimmel last night? Charming, as always.
It was so gracious of Lin-Manuel Miranda to have (mostly) given up his slot on the show to make room for Michelle. I think he was only on for about 10 minutes. I just love him, too. He’s so interesting, and his eyes and face are so expressive.
raven
@Amir Khalid: More.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
I’ve tried to see her on all of her TV book tour appearances. Loved her with Oprah, and especially Ellen (Costco: “They go low, we get high!!” LOL, hilarious!)
But the interview that pricked my eyes with tears was the TODAY Show interview with Jenna Bush Hager. Really good, sensitive, honest conversation. I am amazed I’m even saying that, but it’s twue.
Matt McIrvin
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Andrew Johnson, maybe?
Mary G
MBS’s brother doubles down:
SiubhanDuinne
@Amir Khalid:
Fick Trucky Duck!
Jay
@raven:
Yup, but my point was that “back then” what might be as you said “a war zone” for combattants and civillians, wasn’t other than by accident, for political leaders.
Now the strategy is for the stronger to kill the weaker and more moderate so that:
-there’s “nobody to negotiate with”
-the enemies descent into extremism hopefully causes them to implode and fracture.
That way, the wars never end.
jl
Makes as much sense as Trump’s excuses (edit: meant to type lies) for not attending WWII centenary because of light mist and showers.
frosty
@Fleeting Expletive: “Be Best” for a salutation is just awesome. I’ll have to remember it for my execrable Rep and one of two Senators.
Kay
@Yutsano:
I think it’s huge. An African American woman was really competitive in Georgia for a state-wide race. Think about the group of voters who came together to make that happen. You could really do something with that. I mean, what was her near-miss composed of? Urban AA and white, suburban, and I guess rural African Americans? Could you mitigate rural whites running up vote totals by countering with turnout with rural AA’s in other counties? The whole thing is just full of possibilities. It’s a whole new landscape for Democrats. It will get attention and investment, if for no other reason than it’s something new.
Schlemazel
@SiubhanDuinne:
any historians out there that can answer a Dirty Dick question?
Was he the first Presidential candidate to commit treason in order to win the election? It seemed to start a tradition for GOP candidates but I cannot think of an earlier example
Wakeshift
@Sandia Blanca:
The only that kills me everywhere is “loose” vs “lose”.
Thanks to all the pedant jackals here for holding the line!
Jay
@jl:
WWI
Jay
@Schlemazel:
We don’t know who was involved in The Businessman’s Plot or the America First movement.
Nixon was the first successful one, followed by Reagan, Bush 41, Dolt 45 and The Insane Clown POSus.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Loved heron Ellen! They are so fun together. Missed the one you are talking about.
Kay
@Yutsano:
I don’t think people have really realized how Abrams and Gillum change things for AA candidates. They weren’t running in AA House districts or state legislative districts. They almost won southern statewide elections. Big states, too! Governors and also of course, it means senators. That changes things. It gives them real power within the Democratic Party. They can expand the map. We all talked about it with the Alabama senate race but that was AA voters. This is candidates.
Emma
@TenguPhule: Both should be at the ready depending on the process.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
Here’s the link.
https://youtu.be/5QLL-jM30QA
debbie
@Wakeshift:
Speaking as someone with more than 30 years of editing under her belt, I say let it go here and save it for the more traditional forms of writing. The immediacy of social media is ruined by pendants dwelling on things other than the thought being expressed. Besides, bastard Autocorrect gets the best of us all from time to time!
Roger Moore
@Jay:
The real thing is that political leaders are now seen as valid military targets. The goal is to kill the enemy leadership (decapitation strike) as a means of destroying their capacity to resist. It’s effective militarily in the short term- leadership is important in maintaining a coherent resistance- but as you point out it makes it harder to negotiate a peace agreement, or even a surrender, when the enemy military is defeated. I’m not sure it would count as the original example, but the US military seems to have adopted it more and more after the attack on Muammar Ghadaffi’s home after the Berlin disco bombing in 1986.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Thank you! I opened it in a tab to watch later this evening.
I wonder if there’s something special about being with someone else who understands what it’s like to live in the White House under that spotlight?
Schlemazel
@Jay:
I had completely forgotten that we had an actual coup attempt in the US, thanks for reminding me. But I would have ruled that out I was think more actual ‘legitimate’ major party candidate selling us out to a foreign nation
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: Did the Bush twins ever actually live in the White House? Weren’t they headed to college when W got elected? I know they were in and out of it their entire lives because their grandpa was VP then Pres and then Daddy was elected Pres so it’s like a second home for them. But outside of coming back for holiday breaks they never lived there did they?
Corner Stone
@debbie:
You better thank your lucky stars Steeplejack is missing in action.
Dan B
@Adam L Silverman: On the topic of polarization in the military, particularly between straight white enlisted men and everyone else I wonder how much Facebook is fueling the divisions.
Here’s one big piece of my current interest: Independent Lens, The Cleaners. Eleven minutes, from 1:00.00 to 1:11.30 boggled my mind.
I thought I understood the perils of social media. Nancy Smash (or Barbara Fudge – or whoever) we need an investigation of the extreme viewpoints Facebook ignores.
Mary G
@Kay: This, this, this. If you had told me the week after Trump was elected that two unashamedly nationally unknown progressive African-American politicians, one a woman, would end up coming so close to beating the GOP candidates in Georgia and Florida that the Republicans would have to cheat to win, and still end up in a recount, I would have said you were crazy. This is a major sea change and so many possibilities have been opened up for the future. I get so exasperated at the people today bitching about Stacey conceding. Christ, she said in her speech she wasn’t conceding. She’s just pointing out that their suppression tactics were legally successful this time, and vowing to expose the rot and change the laws for the next election. You know Republicans everywhere are scared shitless of her.
debbie
@Corner Stone:
Believe me, I checked for him before posting!
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: You may well be right. I had no use for the twins when Bush was in office, so I didn’t pay much attention. Maybe she and Michelle connected for some other reason.
Dan B
@Dan B: BTW the entire The Cleaners is good but the eleven minutes that documents a couple consequences is Pulitzer level journalism.
It feels as though they buried the coverage of Facebook fueled violence because leading with it would be so explosive.
Steve in the ATL
@feloniousferb:
Thank god Florida finally restored your right to post!
Dan B
@debbie: Speaking of conceding too quickly I wonder if John Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Schlapp are having flashbacks to the Brooks Brothers Riot in 2000?
Stacey Abrams showed us the Dem version: Stay principled and don’t leave your integrity in the dirt even if you don’t win the battle.
Steve in the ATL
@Yarrow:
Are we doing alternative history now?
Kay
@Mary G:
Absolutely. I’m confident it will get a lot of attention, though, because it’s a different route and political parties are always looking for a different route. I believe it’s part of why there’s that challenge to Pelosi. They know the ground is shifting. Pelosi, wisely, immediately allied herself with the up and comers, because she’s smart :)
I;m excited about it. I get bored with the same old battles. Let’s back something different, because it’s happening anyway so we may as well go with it.
Dan B
@StringOnAStick: Infrastructure Year, raking forests! And it’s a job creator!! /s
My neice’s husband is a forest fire aftermath / soil scientist from So Cal, working in Oregon & Northern CA, S WA. We have fascinating conversations in between corralling the twins.
WaterGirl
@Corner Stone: @debbie: I don’t get why you slag on Steeplejack as being a pedant — there are a ton of pedants here on BJ.
Which reminds me of a funny incident that happened when I worked at the university. A bunch of people often went to lunch together, and one day there were too many people to fit into the van. One young guy popped up and said “that’s okay, I’ll walk, I’m a pedophile”.
Oops – he was treated to lots of laughter on that one.
Steve in the ATL
@WaterGirl: hi!
WaterGirl
@Steve in the ATL: Are you self-identifying as a pedant?
Steve in the ATL
@WaterGirl: yes. I may also be a loose pendant, but that might make me shutter.
Dan B
@Adam L Silverman: This is a terrible combination of OMG TMI? and we gotta hear this story! Now!!
Sorta like Colbert did in his opening monologue last night.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
He’s one of the least annoying, but every typo made by a FPer doesn’t have to be pointed out and chided.The language is strong enough to endure.
WaterGirl
@debbie: I agree with you.
There used to be a dean at our college who liked to say “not everything needs to be a 4-color publication”. By the same token, I have different rules for various forms of communication. I know when and how to use a semicolon, but in a blog post I often use a comma instead because it’s less formal and more conversational.
Some people just don’t seem to be able to turn it off. Once a copy editor, always a copy editor! :-)
Jay
@Roger Moore:
The first examples I am aware of the policy was the Israeli’s targetting of moderate Palistinians, starting in the 1948, in Israel and the Occupied Territories to ensure that Palistinian resistence remained centered on the PLO and other militant groups.
The only example of “success” I know of is in the Algerian Dirty War. Eventually the Islamic Armed Groups were ground down to one last hold out, dying in a chicken shed, who had killed off the last of the groups leadership for not being “Islamic” enough.
While it “won” the war, it didn’t solve any of Algeria’s problems, killed probably over a million, and just postponed next the Civil War by two decades.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
Oh, hai.