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You are here: Home / Politics / America / The President Doesn’t Want US Military Personnel Deployed in Combat Zones; Fine, Order Them Home!

The President Doesn’t Want US Military Personnel Deployed in Combat Zones; Fine, Order Them Home!

by Adam L Silverman|  November 16, 20184:55 pm| 190 Comments

This post is in: America, Election 2016, Foreign Affairs, Military, Open Threads, Politics, Popular Culture, Post-racial America, Silverman on Security, War, Not Normal, Outrage

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The New York Times dives into the President’s unwillingness to make a visit to US military personnel deployed in combat zones. Here’s the real important part of the article:

One reason he has not visited troops in war zones, according to his aides, is that he does not really want American troops there in the first place. To visit, they said, would validate missions he does not truly believe in.

There is a very simple solution if the President doesn’t want US military personnel deployed to these war zones or conducting these operations because he doesn’t believe that the US military should be conducting them: ORDER THEM HOME!!!!!

Every single one of these deployments, from Operation Inherent Resolve in Iraq and Syria to Operation Freedom Sentinel in Afghanistan to every aid, advise, and assist mission conducted by both conventional and Special Operations forces, to every lethal/kinetic Special Operations mission covered under JSOC’s remit are all conducted solely under the authority of the President. Either authority provided to the President by the 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Force or the authority the President has to order short term, renewable contingency operations as long as the President both notifies Congress about them and Congress is willing to fund them.

If the current President of the United States believes that these campaigns, operations, and missions are wrong, should either never have been initially authorized or not repeatedly reauthorized, and doesn’t believe in the missions, the US military’s ability to complete the mission, or some combination of these reasons, then he needs to issue clear orders ending these assignments and return the US military personnel deployed to conduct them home. There is no declaration of war that creates a constitutionally rooted, statutory requirement that US personnel be deployed to defend the US and its interests that complicates this. Right now there are Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Service civilians deployed in harm’s way. Leaving them to face danger, when the President doesn’t believe they need to be there is a gross dereliction of his duty. If the President doesn’t believe in the missions these Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and DOD, Department of the Army, Navy, and/or Air Force civilians are tasked with carrying out under his authority as Commander in Chief, then he needs to end them. Immediately. If he can’t bring himself to do so because he’s too much of a coward, then he has a responsibility to visit US military personnel deployed abroad, to attend to memorial services at Arlington and other national cemeteries and monuments, both within and without the US. If he can’t bring himself to do either of these – ending missions he doesn’t believe in or actually attending to his duties and obligations to the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Service civilians deployed in harm’s way under his authority, then he needs to resign.

We are off the looking glass and through the map!

Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

190Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 4:58 pm

    If he can’t bring himself to do so because he’s too much of a coward, then he has a responsibility to visit US military personnel deployed abroad, to attend to memorial services at Arlington and other national cemeteries and monuments, both within and without the US. If he can’t bring himself to do either of these – ending missions he doesn’t believe in or actually attending to his duties and obligations to the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Service civilians deployed in harm’s way under his authority, then he needs to resign.

    Required proof of human being not in evidence.

  2. 2.

    waspuppet

    November 16, 2018 at 4:59 pm

    This’ll just be another one filed under Well, You Know He’s Basically Addled …

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    November 16, 2018 at 4:59 pm

    Adam, are you perhaps hinting at, suggesting even, that Trump’s aides may have been less than honest and forthright in the reasons they gave for Trump’s reluctance to visit US troops overseas? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.

  4. 4.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    House Republicans to subpoena Comey, Lynch in probe of FBI and Justice Dept.

    Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee are prepared to subpoena former FBI director James B. Comey and former attorney general Loretta E. Lynch for depositions in their ongoing investigations of FBI and Justice Department officials’ conduct during probes of Donald Trump’s campaign and Hillary Clinton’s emails, according to a person familiar with the plans.

    Comey will be ordered to appear for a deposition on Nov. 29, while Lynch will be ordered to appear on Dec. 5. Panel rules stipulate that Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) must give 48 hours’ notice before issuing the subpoenas.

    Popcorn or pitchforks?

  5. 5.

    ruemara

    November 16, 2018 at 5:01 pm

    Read that this morning. The least it is, is disturbing.

  6. 6.

    NotoriousJRT

    November 16, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    Why not both?

  7. 7.

    dmsilev

    November 16, 2018 at 5:04 pm

    @TenguPhule: Fight the subpoenas. Shouldn’t be too hard to drag the fight out for a month, after which the problem goes away since sane people will then be in charge of the committees.

  8. 8.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 5:04 pm

    We need to check the weather before calling them home. As I understand it our helicopters can’t fly in a drizzle

    All administrations throw a certain amount of BS, it is necessary to maintain the message of the day. But even Boy Blunder’s admin managed to be relatively consistent as they stumbled into Iraq and fiddled while New Orleans drown.

    This group of incompetents just throws stupid shit at the wall & hopes some of it sticks

  9. 9.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 5:05 pm

    Righteous rant, Adam. Give em hell. We waste some of our best people on these stupid missions. Imagine what the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Airwomen, Marines, and Service civilians could be contributing to the country if they didn’t have to sit around some hellhole so the politicians in Washington can look tough.

  10. 10.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 5:06 pm

    If he can’t bring himself to do so because he’s too much of a coward, then he has a responsibility to visit US military personnel deployed abroad, to attend to memorial services at Arlington and other national cemeteries and monuments, both within and without the US.

    I would argue he has a duty as head of state to attend memorial services and similar events at national cemeteries and monuments in any case. Even if he disapproves of our current crop of wars, that doesn’t justify dismissing the service and sacrifice of veterans from previous wars. It doesn’t even justify dismissing the sacrifice of our military personnel serving today. It’s just a thin and meager excuse for his unwillingness to carry out the normal ceremonial duties of the head of state.

  11. 11.

    Mike in NC

    November 16, 2018 at 5:09 pm

    I think the troops on the border will be left there through Thanksgiving, or possibly even Christmas. Trump is in a deep funk and can’t be bothered to justify his actions (or inactions, as the case may be). Scuttlebutt lately has been that both Kelly and Mattis will be fired before the end of the year. Maybe he’ll direct them to fire each other since he’s too cowardly to do it himself.

  12. 12.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    November 16, 2018 at 5:09 pm

    Trump says “he should have gone to Arlington” which means he is going to start blaming his staffers in 3, 2, 1……

  13. 13.

    Aleta

    November 16, 2018 at 5:09 pm

    The key part is “according to his aides” (in speaking to the NYT). As always, motivation, truthfulness and what’s up with Kelly and other staff are in question.

  14. 14.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 5:09 pm

    Attn Masshole Juicers:

    Can you please spread the word? Seth Moulton is having a Town Hall on Monday in Amesbury, MA at 6 pm. Let's send him a clear message that we oppose his effort to move the Democratic Party to the right. https://t.co/WIlRxNQNu4 #IStandWithNancy #FiveWhiteGuys— Isa Leshko Ⓥ (@IsaLeshko) November 16, 2018

  15. 15.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 16, 2018 at 5:10 pm

    After General Theranos and Kelly’s protege showboating at the border earlier this week, are the troops at the border free to go home? Or must they continue the charade even though the elections are over?

  16. 16.

    feloniousferb

    November 16, 2018 at 5:11 pm

    I’ve been reading this blog for years. Never commented. As a veteran of OIF and OEF I’d like to tell you Adam, Thank You for writing this! If he can’t be bothered to visit service members stationed in combat zones and he’s going to use some bullshit excuse like he doesn’t want to “legitimize” them then you are absolutely correct. Send them home, resign, stop lying about being a lazy, fucking coward. There is nothing that pisses me off more than blind republican allegiance by the military to republican cowards.

  17. 17.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 16, 2018 at 5:11 pm

    @Mary G: He is not my representative. I have no idea where Amesbury is either.

  18. 18.

    Brachiator

    November 16, 2018 at 5:12 pm

    Trump’s approval among the military:

    President Donald Trump’s approval rating among active-duty military personnel has slipped over the last two years, leaving today’s troops evenly split over whether they’re happy with the commander in chief’s job performance, according to the results of a new Military Times poll of active-duty service members.

    About 44 percent of troops had a favorable view of Trump’s presidency, the poll showed, compared to 43 percent who disapproved.

    The results from the survey, conducted over the course of September and October, suggest a gradual decline in troops’ support of Trump since he was elected in fall 2016, when a similar Military Times poll showed that 46 percent of troops approved of Trump compared to 37 percent who disapproved. That nine-point margin of support now appears gone.

    During that same period, the number of neutral respondents has dwindled from almost 17 percent to about 13 percent, suggesting political polarization inside the military community has intensified in recent years.

  19. 19.

    Kraux Pas

    November 16, 2018 at 5:12 pm

    @Mary G: I’m working, but I’ll see if I can get my shift switched. My rep supports Pelosi, so good.

  20. 20.

    A Ghost To Most

    November 16, 2018 at 5:12 pm

    No sense trying to make sense of nonsense.

    Shit Hitler is a madman, backed by seditionists.

    People need to go to jail.

  21. 21.

    Barbara

    November 16, 2018 at 5:13 pm

    How long ago was it that when people said that they opposed the purpose or implementation of a military mission they were accused of being unpatriotic and undermining military personnel and their families? Donald Trump gets to casually say that all those people he continues to authorize for deployment to places where they are directly in harm’s way are not worth visiting because he doesn’t believe in the mission anyway. I find that unbelievable, that it’s true, that they said it, that they thought it would be viewed as exculpatory. But if it is true then he is, basically, the only person who has the authority to change the narrative.

  22. 22.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 5:16 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    are the troops at the border free to go home? Or must they continue the charade even though the elections are over?

    At a minimum they’re stuck there till December 15, according to the last story I read on Wapo.

    I suspect most of them are going to miss Christmas and New Tears away from family and friends.

  23. 23.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    @Brachiator:
    Given the amount of pro-GOP propaganda our troops are force fed those are stunning numbers

  24. 24.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Or must they continue the charade even though the elections are over?

    They have to stay there until somebody reminds Trump it’s time to send them home.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    November 16, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    @Aleta: This.

  26. 26.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 5:19 pm

    @Brachiator:

    leaving today’s troops evenly split over whether they’re happy with the commander in chief’s job performance

    Even split? Well that inspires no end of confidence in me that our military will stick together and not break down into its own internal battles should push come to shove on confronting the American Nazis. //s

  27. 27.

    Kraux Pas

    November 16, 2018 at 5:19 pm

    @Barbara:

    How long ago was it that when people said that they opposed the purpose or implementation of a military mission they were accused of being unpatriotic and undermining military personnel and their families?

    I never agreed with this notion; but I’ll make an exception for someone who claims to be against these missions, has the sole authority to do something about it, and fucking doesn’t.

  28. 28.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 5:20 pm

    @dmsilev:

    It’s the Senate Judiciary Commitee, not the House’s.

    It’s going to remain a Clown Show for the next 2 years and 1 1/2 months.

  29. 29.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 16, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    If he can’t bring himself to do so because he’s too much of a coward

    DINGDINGDINGDING. You want him to make a major military action? No way. Someone might yell at him! Worse, what if it turns out badly and he doesn’t look manly? Remember that botched raid? This military stuff is harder than he was told it would be!

    he has a responsibility to visit US military personnel deployed abroad

    Gallows humor at its finest, and deliberate, I know.

    he needs to resign.

    No god damn way. A narcissist cannot survive without external validation. He can’t give up a title as impressive as ‘President of the United States’, no matter how much it’s torturing him. Suicide is an option, though, even for a coward on his scale. I suppose the Secret Service would make that very hard to do.

    @Brachiator:

    About 44 percent of troops had a favorable view of Trump’s presidency

    Isn’t the military normally overwhelmingly Republican?

  30. 30.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 5:25 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    The Military Times digs into the divide.

    a large majority of Officers, Women, LBGTQ, POC disapprove of The Insane Clown POSus,

    a majority of white, male “grunts” approve of The Insane Clown POSus.

  31. 31.

    japa21

    November 16, 2018 at 5:26 pm

    If he can’t bring himself to do so because he’s too much of a coward,

    That word in bold is the essence of Trump’s character. The term could also apply to most of the Republican Party.

  32. 32.

    danielx

    November 16, 2018 at 5:28 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    You know, it’s amazing how Hair Furor felt strongly enough about the threat of the immigrant caravan to address it multiple times a day and order the deployment of the equivalent of a full brigade of troops to address this threat – you know, the one consisting of unarmed women and children.

    Since then….crickets. Almost like he really didn’t give a shit except to use it as a political lever for the elections. I believe in some circles this is known as a co-inky-dink.

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 5:29 pm

    @Jay:

    a large majority of Officers, Women, LBGTQ, POC disapprove of The Insane Clown POSus,

    a majority of white, male “grunts” approve of The Insane Clown POSus.

    When you remember that officers tend to be better educated than enlisted people, it falls neatly in line with the rest of the country. Poorly educated whites love Trump. Educated white men are divided on him. Educated white women dislike him, and minorities loath him.

  34. 34.

    Brachiator

    November 16, 2018 at 5:29 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    Given the amount of pro-GOP propaganda our troops are force fed those are stunning numbers.

    Part of this may be because Trump has increased military spending and veteran spending, and also lied about what he has done for veterans, taking credit for Bush and Obama initiatives.

    Another bit of data from the article about Trump’s support among the military is quite interesting:

    The new survey results also show sharp divides within the ranks. Enlisted men show Trump the most overwhelming support. Military women, meanwhile, have a much harsher view of Trump’s time in office. Officers still have a lower opinion of his presidency than enlisted troops.

    Coming back to Adam’s point, I think that Trump is an old fart, set in his ways, who does not like to travel or be outside his comfort zone. Since there are no Trump hotels in war zones, he is unlikely to want to visit troops there.

  35. 35.

    germy

    November 16, 2018 at 5:29 pm

    Have you seen this video? Trump is happy.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aplhmnwktlk

  36. 36.

    gene108

    November 16, 2018 at 5:31 pm

    Trump doesn’t believe in anything beyond his glorification.

    These Forever Wars aren’t bringing him the necessary glory.

    So why should he care to support them?

    But “cutting and running” will only invite criticism from others, so it is also a bad look.

    The only path forward that doesn’t immediately hurt his image further is doing nothing.

    No risk, fewer chances for failure

  37. 37.

    Josie

    November 16, 2018 at 5:31 pm

    @Jay: No, according to the Post article, it is the House committee that is issuing the subpoenas.

  38. 38.

    eemom

    November 16, 2018 at 5:34 pm

    Jaded as I thought I was, the NYT continues to amaze me. Today’s headline:

    Two Years In, Trump Struggles to Master Role of Military Commander

    Key quote:

    “There was the belief that over time, he would better understand, but I don’t know that that’s the case,” said Col. David Lapan, a retired Marine who served in the Trump administration in 2017 as a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security. “I don’t think that he understands the proper use and role of the military and what we can, and can’t, do.”

    No way. Ya gotta be shittin me. Say it ain’t so Joe.

  39. 39.

    Barbara

    November 16, 2018 at 5:36 pm

    @Kraux Pas: It was always a ridiculous notion, and it was clearly intended to stifle legitimate protests about the goal, purpose and methods of military deployments, but I take exception to my exception when it comes to the President of the United States who, even if it wasn’t his idea originally, continues to authorize troops to be deployed in combat zones. You don’t say that you disagree with the mission. You either end the mission or you shut up. It’s unconscionable that anyone thinks this would be acceptable for the president. I mean, imagine if the first lady said it or if Obama had said it or really anybody.

  40. 40.

    Kraux Pas

    November 16, 2018 at 5:36 pm

    @danielx:

    You know, it’s amazing how Hair Furor felt strongly enough about the threat of the immigrant caravan to address it multiple times a day and order the deployment of the equivalent of a full brigade of troops to address this threat – you know, the one consisting of unarmed women and children.

    No question that focus on the caravan was a cynical election ploy.

    But what I wonder is, regardless of what one thinks of our foreign military entanglements, how is any of it less deserving of our military’s attention than a bunch of poor would-be refugees? When was this poll taken in relation to the caravan malarkey. I find it hard to believe that any member of the greatest military force this world has ever known thinks dithering at the US Mexico border is a constructive use of their time.

  41. 41.

    eemom

    November 16, 2018 at 5:39 pm

    OT: Abrams conceded. ?

  42. 42.

    Fleeting Expletive

    November 16, 2018 at 5:39 pm

    My dim R Senator sent me a 5 page single-spaced letter extolling the virtues of Boof-man Kavenaugh after I made several calls to his office. I stewed a bit over responding, wrote a draft, reconsidered, wrote again today. Don’t think I’ll send it though, because what would be the point? But I like the letter, short and sharp but maybe too mean:

    Senator XXX: Thank you for your letter to me of 10-26-18. I had composed a reply but I’ve decided that it is fruitless, as events have been moving quickly.

    As a red-state Republican Senator you appear to possess a first-class ticket on our Ship of State. The Ship, however, seems to be the Titanic. Please examine your values as well as your partisan preferences. I think if I were in your shoes I’d have a hard time living with my allegiances at this point.

    Be Best.

    Sincerely,

    Me

  43. 43.

    Kraux Pas

    November 16, 2018 at 5:39 pm

    @germy:

    On foreign, we’re doing very well.

    -Trump

    On English, not so much. Perhaps he gains sympathy from the English as a second language set? Nah, probably not.

  44. 44.

    germy

    November 16, 2018 at 5:40 pm

    @eemom: Shit.

    That sucks.

    This won’t be the last time we hear from her. I have high hopes for her future.

  45. 45.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 16, 2018 at 5:40 pm

    @germy:

    Have you seen this video? Trump is happy.

    For Trump, he does look happy. I suspect someone has sold him a line of bullshit that he’s totally foxed Mueller and is in the clear, so he’ll stop throwing tantrums.

    @gene108:

    The only path forward that doesn’t immediately hurt his image further is doing nothing.

    Like I’ve said before, this will be our entire foreign policy during the Trump administration: Trump will talk big, and the United States will sit on our ass and do nothing. Tariffs seem to be the only exception. He seems to love them on a personal level. Backing out of treaties is fine, because it’s a way of doing even more nothing.

  46. 46.

    Gelfling 545

    November 16, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    Completely off topic but I just wanted to say that I finally got around to trying the saffron-honey challah recipe you posted some time ago. It is remarkable. The family are demanding more.

  47. 47.

    Brachiator

    November 16, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    @eemom:

    “There was the belief that over time, he would better understand, but I don’t know that that’s the case,” said Col. David Lapan, a retired Marine who served in the Trump administration in 2017 as a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security. “I don’t think that he understands the proper use and role of the military and what we can, and can’t, do.”

    It seems that there are a lot of people who keep waiting for Trump to become … “presidential.” These people will continue to be disappointed.

  48. 48.

    Kraux Pas

    November 16, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    @Fleeting Expletive:

    Senator XXX

    Don’t want us to know which state you’re from or is your Senator a jug of moonshine?

  49. 49.

    Ruckus

    November 16, 2018 at 5:42 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    It’s not necessarily different than the country as a whole of their age groups. People go in for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the pay isn’t all that bad for a HS graduate and one gets to travel to “exotic” lands. I know a young guy now stationed in the middle east and his political views are anyone’s guess, but money was a priority for him. He gets regular pay, hazardous duty pay, something else, he’s doing OK money wise. As well he really can’t spend much of it where he is. It was something he and I talked about, he couldn’t believe how much I got paid or more to the point how much I didn’t get paid.

  50. 50.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 16, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    @Jay: Yep, it’s largely white male enlisted that are keeping the approve numbers as high as they are.

  51. 51.

    debbie

    November 16, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    One reason he has not visited troops in war zones, according to his aides, is that he does not really want American troops there in the first place.

    I call bullshit on that. He goes to Montana, Alabama, etc., and he sure as hell wouldn’t want to live there. More likely, he’s scared of danger. Or of rain. Or both.

  52. 52.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    @Josie:

    Muy bad, thanks.

  53. 53.

    Lapassionara

    November 16, 2018 at 5:47 pm

    @eemom: ??

  54. 54.

    Ruckus

    November 16, 2018 at 5:48 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Coming back to Adam’s point, I think that Trump is an old fart, set in his ways, who does not like to travel or be outside his comfort zone. Since there are no Trump hotels in war zones, he is unlikely to want to visit troops there

    Nail hit squarely.
    As always, it is about him, his comfort, his sight lines, him, him, him…………

  55. 55.

    Yutsano

    November 16, 2018 at 5:49 pm

    @eemom:

    Say it ain’t so Joe.

    I wiil say…you do know how to twist a knife…

  56. 56.

    zhena gogolia

    November 16, 2018 at 5:50 pm

    @feloniousferb:

    Keep commenting!

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 16, 2018 at 5:50 pm

    @feloniousferb: You’re quite welcome. As a civilian who deployed to OIF in 2008, prepped to go to Afghanistan, but was sent to Carlisle Barracks, and has been asked to or volunteered to go back to Iraq several times (though those deployments didn’t come through), we are in complete agreement.

    And comment as much as you like.

  58. 58.

    zhena gogolia

    November 16, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    @eemom:

    Yeah. So sad.

  59. 59.

    Martin

    November 16, 2018 at 5:52 pm

    Look, Trump can’t reasonably be expected to visit combat zones given their motto of “Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.” When y’all can promise he won’t be rained on during these visits, then you’ll get these visits. And it’s not like he’s ignoring the military – he has dinner with Col. Sanders on Air Force One all the damn time.

  60. 60.

    Brachiator

    November 16, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Like I’ve said before, this will be our entire foreign policy during the Trump administration: Trump will talk big, and the United States will sit on our ass and do nothing. Tariffs seem to be the only exception. He seems to love them on a personal level. Backing out of treaties is fine, because it’s a way of doing even more nothing.

    Trump’s bumbling foreign policy moves have increased global insecurity. Pulling out of the treaty with Iran and re-imposing sanctions has been de-stabilizing. Similarly, backing away from the missile treaty with Russia creates an unnecessary vacuum (Pakistan, India, North Korea and other players could work to increase certain classes of missiles). The decision to recognize Jerusalem is a gift that keeps on causing friction.

    Trump’s fondness for authoritarians and the absence of an American bully pulpit may have made it easier for various bad regimes to engage in punitive actions against helpless groups.

  61. 61.

    debbie

    November 16, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    If nothing else, Dems have shown that the days of conceding too quickly or of folding like cheap suits are over. Or so I hope.

  62. 62.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 16, 2018 at 5:54 pm

    I’m going to the gym.

  63. 63.

    Yutsano

    November 16, 2018 at 5:55 pm

    @feloniousferb: I shall give you the traditional blog “FUCK YOU!!” and “Thank You For Your Service” needs out of the way.

    Thanks for the rant! It’s always good to hear voices who don’t tolerate the nonsense of Dolt45 and Mike Dense. Please feel free to wade with us jackals again.

  64. 64.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 5:56 pm

    Maybe the “reason” why The Insane Clown POSus doesn’t “believe” in “the missions” is because “they arn’t taking the oil”?

  65. 65.

    Yarrow

    November 16, 2018 at 5:56 pm

    If the President doesn’t believe in the missions these Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and DOD, Department of the Army, Navy, and/or Air Force civilians are tasked with carrying out under his authority as Commander in Chief, then he needs to end them. Immediately. If he can’t bring himself to do so because he’s too much of a coward, then he has a responsibility to visit US military personnel deployed abroad, to attend to memorial services at Arlington and other national cemeteries and monuments, both within and without the US. If he can’t bring himself to do either of these – ending missions he doesn’t believe in or actually attending to his duties and obligations to the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Service civilians deployed in harm’s way under his authority, then he needs to resign.

    I understand that this is what the President, the Commander in Chief, should do. But is there some actual law requiring the President to do things like visit a war zone or go to memorial services? Isn’t it just one more norm that this President has shattered? Like with all the other ones that he’s ignored and bulldozed right through it may be something we have to legislate if we want the President to do it.

    This President has shown us again and again he won’t do the right thing. I wouldn’t expect his behavior regarding wars or military related issues to be any different.

  66. 66.

    Chris T.

    November 16, 2018 at 5:57 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Educated white women dislike him, and minorities loath him.

    Please spell the verb form with a final “e”, loathe. The loath (or loth) spelling is for the adjective. /pedantry /pet peeve

    (Who keeps peeves as pets anyway? Well, apparently me!)

  67. 67.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 16, 2018 at 5:58 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Trump’s bumbling foreign policy moves have increased global insecurity.

    I completely agree. Having the US stick its fingers in its ears and go “LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU” is terrible and damaging foreign policy. There are worse options than yelling about how tough you are, then doing nothing, but it’s pretty damn far down the list.

  68. 68.

    Kraux Pas

    November 16, 2018 at 5:58 pm

    @Jay:

    Maybe the “reason” why The Insane Clown POSus doesn’t “believe” in “the missions” is because “they arn’t taking the oil”?

    I’m betting it’s because he didn’t initiate these missions himself and everyone else is a loozah.

  69. 69.

    Ruckus

    November 16, 2018 at 5:58 pm

    @debbie:
    He’s scarred of looking like the buffoon he knows he actually is. He thinks he’s the best president ever, just like he’s the best at everything else he’s ever done. He knows better, but he has never had any idea of how to get better, except lie. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. And his is wasted beyond any hope of repair.

  70. 70.

    Ruckus

    November 16, 2018 at 6:03 pm

    @Yarrow:

    This President has shown us again and again he won’t do the right thing.

    He’d have to understand that there is a right thing and a wrong thing and that which he thinks are which is entirely wrong.
    Also isn’t why his adoring fans like him, that he is always on the wrong side of things, as they are?

  71. 71.

    Yutsano

    November 16, 2018 at 6:03 pm

    @eemom: @debbie: Maybe she can be the next African-American Senator from Georgia. If a fair election can be administered there she could probably take out Perdue especially if Kemp keeps his thumb off the scales.

  72. 72.

    Gvg

    November 16, 2018 at 6:04 pm

    He is an obvious coward.

  73. 73.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:08 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    A narcissist cannot survive without external validation.

    Sounds good to me.

  74. 74.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 16, 2018 at 6:09 pm

    @Mike in NC: Ordering two of his staff to fire each other at the same time will likely be one truly amusing thing Trump will have done during his presidency.

  75. 75.

    debbie

    November 16, 2018 at 6:11 pm

    @Ruckus:

    I wonder if his current mood is his acknowledgement that there are people — lots of people — who don’t think he’s the best president ever. Maybe his over-self-confidence is beginning to crumble!

  76. 76.

    Yarrow

    November 16, 2018 at 6:13 pm

    You expect this guy to understand anything about anything?

    Trump blames forest poor management on the California fires, says if forest areas had been raked out, "you wouldn't have the fires." (via Fox) pic.twitter.com/cbdfiRlbJ7— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 16, 2018

  77. 77.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 16, 2018 at 6:14 pm

    @Fleeting Expletive: Actually, I like that – gets the point across without a personal attack on the people you are addressing.

  78. 78.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    November 16, 2018 at 6:16 pm

    @Mary G: There are no such thing as Airwomen, Air Force enlisted personnel are Airmen regardless of gender.

  79. 79.

    Ruckus

    November 16, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    @Yarrow:

    I understand that this is what the President, the Commander in Chief, should do. But is there some actual law requiring the President to do things like visit a war zone or go to memorial services?

    No.
    And neither was there probably much thought about this up until recently. First presidents have gone to services and the like. But a president in a war zone is unlikely at any time. I can’t recall any such visits in history, although I’m sure I’ll get corrected forthwith. But visits to bases, to see outgoing troops off, yes that has happened. There is a thing called reviewing the troops, there have been presidents visiting military hospitals, etc. Most troops don’t want to go to a war zone. They will go, it’s necessary but the president? No, I doubt it will ever happen.

  80. 80.

    Yarrow

    November 16, 2018 at 6:21 pm

    JUST IN: Lawyers ask #SCOTUS to resolve the dispute over whether Matthew Whitaker can be the acting AG. READ the filing: https://t.co/8WUdx6KAqp pic.twitter.com/GO5PmBoZHo— Chris Geidner (@chrisgeidner) November 16, 2018

  81. 81.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 6:22 pm

    Excellent thread on the stupidity of not allowing visas to foreign college students:

    1/OK, so let me explain why declining international student numbers – which are almost certainly due to Trump's restrictionist policies – are a bad thing for the United States. pic.twitter.com/ZNPRkJW3rP— Noah Smith (@Noahpinion) November 15, 2018

  82. 82.

    Yarrow

    November 16, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    @Ruckus: I know Trump has visited some military personnel somewhere. I remember seeing a photo of him giving a speech and them behind him. No idea where that was or how many times.

  83. 83.

    feloniousferb

    November 16, 2018 at 6:25 pm

    Adam, when I read that you took the job at Carlisle I was very happy for you. My wife is from ‘over the hill’ in Duncannon and, when we were dating, I’d get a room at the BOQ at Carlisle to ‘impress her’. As USMC, it was nice to see the Army’s Officer “school house” and take in the history; who has been there and what it means to them.
    To those who “welcomed me” (looking at you Yutsano, in particular (typed with a smile)) I am very appreciative. I love the comments here, love the variety and depth of experience here.

  84. 84.

    Yutsano

    November 16, 2018 at 6:25 pm

    @Yarrow: He’s done a few of those (can’t recall exactly where or when) but all have been domestic. I don’t think he’s taken even ten overseas trips as a President yet.

  85. 85.

    eemom

    November 16, 2018 at 6:25 pm

    @Yutsano:

    If a fair election can be administered there she could probably take out Perdue especially if Kemp keeps his thumb off the scales.

    As the kids say, the word “if” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

  86. 86.

    MoxieM

    November 16, 2018 at 6:25 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: up at the Merrimac River, near Haverhill (east of Lawrence, NW of Lowell). It’s a fair drive from our Western bucolic regions. It’s a cool place, reinvented former failing industrial city–like Holyoke could be if –I dunno whatever– by the sea. I believe Moulton is a Rep from Essex Co, which would include that area. Tends conservative, so yaknow.

  87. 87.

    Ruckus

    November 16, 2018 at 6:26 pm

    @Yarrow:

    You expect this guy to understand anything about anything?

    No.
    My expectations for people like drumpf is that he will always say and do the wrong thing.
    Look at the people that like him. Can you say any different than what I’ve just said about them? I can. It’s possible that some of them could have what we used to call a come to jesus moment. He has never had one of those his entire life. And never will. If he ever does you will know because he will spontaneously combust.

  88. 88.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:27 pm

    CIA concludes Saudi crown prince ordered Jamal Khashoggi’s assassination

    Breaking at Wapo.

    This is my shocked face. : |

  89. 89.

    StringOnAStick

    November 16, 2018 at 6:28 pm

    @Yarrow: “Raked out”? Who the fuck thinks that forests are raked like Merde a lardass? I’ve done lots of work in forests in my prior career and spend a lot of time in them now for recreation, and “raking out” the forest is one of his stupider lies yet.

    Colorado is about to start their annual controlled burns. We can do that here because soil moisture is adequate and we’ve had a early shot of significant snow. CA is suffering from a prolonged dry spell with very low soil moisture; the standing live trees in many places have a lower moisture content than certified kiln dried lumber. Scientists are saying that the elevation that can support forest has risen 1,000 feet. That means that anything in that “old” elevation up to the “new” forest level will likely burn and won’t regrow. It also means that doing controlled burns to reduce forest fuels is basically impossible in the current situation.

    Not that I would expect Mango Moron to understand the concept of soil moisture. All he can think of is to get more H1B’s like he does when he needs laborers, get them to “rake out” the forests. Yeah, sure; that will work.

  90. 90.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 16, 2018 at 6:28 pm

    I have to say, this prehapas the first time we have had a president completely not interested in the office. I’ve had them incapacitated like Wilson or broken by a crises like Buchanan, but never just doesn’t care.

    Trump, the first slacker president.

  91. 91.

    Yutsano

    November 16, 2018 at 6:29 pm

    @eemom: I just read the Hill article about Abrams conceding. She is definitively not going gentle into that good night. In fact, her lawsuit about the Kemp mismanagement is still going forward. So it’s possible some good will come at the end of this.

    @feloniousferb: O ye gods another Teufelhund. :P The story about wooing your wife was sweet. Pet pictures are also mandatory.
    (And if you want a Doberman I know a good breeder in California who has some great lines)

  92. 92.

    zhena gogolia

    November 16, 2018 at 6:30 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    You should watch the video the NYT posted. It is chilling AF.

  93. 93.

    rsginsf

    November 16, 2018 at 6:30 pm

    You know that Trump cannot stand the sight of blood (documented fact I’ll let you google–try ‘trump mar-a-lago blood’). In my view, that is why he won’t visit (plus his obvious and also-well-documented cowardice): he might glimpse the sight of a bloody bandage and faint, right there on camera. So sad! So embarrassing!

  94. 94.

    KSinMA

    November 16, 2018 at 6:30 pm

    @Martin: Um, pretty sure “Neither snow nor rain nor heat,” etc., is the motto of the U.S. Post Office, not the armed forces (no idea whether the USPS adopted it).

    /pedant

  95. 95.

    japa21

    November 16, 2018 at 6:30 pm

    @Ruckus: Well, if you exclude Obama, Bush the lesser, Clinton, Bush the Elder, Reagan, Nixon, LBJ, Eisenhower and debatable re FDR, you would be correct.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    November 16, 2018 at 6:31 pm

    Old white guys on Ari wants Nancy gone.

  97. 97.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 6:31 pm

    The drip, drip, drip is becoming a flood. Moar leaking to WaPo by the IC:

    The CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul last month, contradicting the Saudi government’s claims that he was not involved in the killing, according to people familiar with the matter.

  98. 98.

    KSinMA

    November 16, 2018 at 6:32 pm

    @TenguPhule: Imagine that!

  99. 99.

    Yutsano

    November 16, 2018 at 6:33 pm

    @japa21: I thought Carter and Truman managed to get a visit in as well. Maybe not.

  100. 100.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:35 pm

    Among the intelligence assembled by the CIA is an audio recording from a listening device that the Turks placed inside the Saudi consulate, according to the people familiar with the matter. The Turks gave the CIA a copy of that audio, and the agency’s director, Gina Haspel, has listened to it.

    The audio shows that Khashoggi was killed within moments of entering the consulate, according to officials in multiple countries who have listened to it or been briefed on its contents. Khashoggi died in the office of the Saudi consul general, who can be heard expressing his displeasure that Khashoggi’s body now needed to be disposed of and the facility cleaned of any evidence, according to people familiar with the audio recording.

    Because that was obviously their most pressing concern

  101. 101.

    JGabriel

    November 16, 2018 at 6:37 pm

    NYTimes via Adam Silverman @ Top:

    One reason [Trump] has not visited troops in war zones, according to his aides, is that he does not really want American troops there in the first place. To visit, they said, would validate missions he does not truly believe in.

    OR, Trump is too cowardly to visit a combat zone, just as he was when he got his bone spur deferments, AND, he’s too chicken to admit it, so he came up with a different excuse to give people.

    I mean, seriously, are we really going to start taking Trump’s word on anything at this late date?

    (Though I certainly have no qualms about using his own words against him to suggest he should bring the troops home, or fulfill his obligations to them, or resign – as you point out, Adam.)

  102. 102.

    japa21

    November 16, 2018 at 6:37 pm

    @Yutsano: They may have, just did the ones I could find quickly. Hey, I think even Lincoln did.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    November 16, 2018 at 6:37 pm

    @TenguPhule: That would be my first concern if I had just killed someone.

  104. 104.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:37 pm

    @StringOnAStick:

    and “raking out” the forest is one of his stupider lies yet.

    Actually I’m pretty sure it doesn’t even break into the top twenty.

    “Photo IDS to buy cereal” is one of the new greatest worsts.

  105. 105.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:39 pm

    @Baud:

    That would be my first concern if I had just killed someone.

    That’s why you’re supposed to prepare for disposal before you kill the victim, not after.

  106. 106.

    trollhattan

    November 16, 2018 at 6:39 pm

    @Fleeting Expletive:

    Be Best

    Nice touch.

  107. 107.

    Martin

    November 16, 2018 at 6:39 pm

    @Ruckus: Well, if we look at the history of Presidents, they’re full of characters like Grant and TR and Ike and Kennedy and Bush Sr that served often with distinction. And lots of them did go to relatively hostile areas. FDR went to Casablanca during the Tripoli offensive. Ike went to Korea, LBJ and Nixon each went to Vietnam. Keeping in mind that we didn’t have the kind of total visibility that we have now, there was some risk in those visits. Nobody would have accused Ike or Kennedy of being a coward, and those presidents that didn’t serve often visited. It seems that historically there’s two standards – serve and you are excused from visiting, or don’t serve and visit. And that’s why so many of our latest presidents have visited. But I also think that if a President has been critical of a war, as Obama and Trump have been, that they have an additional responsibility to visit, because they need to make clear why they are continuing this thing that they are on record as opposing, and doing that in person is important.

    That’s all gotten further complicated (not in a good way) moving to a professional army.

  108. 108.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 16, 2018 at 6:40 pm

    @feloniousferb: I was on faculty team every year if my assignment there with the Marine Senior Service rep. I enjoyed many a first Thursday with the Marines at Alibis and being invited to the USMC birthday dinner.

  109. 109.

    Baud

    November 16, 2018 at 6:40 pm

    @TenguPhule: Lessons learned.

  110. 110.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:41 pm

    @Baud:

    Lessons learned.

    it will be on the final exam.

  111. 111.

    Viva BrisVegas

    November 16, 2018 at 6:41 pm

    @Yarrow:

    It will be fun to see how Clarence Thomas manages to rule in favor of Trump while at the same time contradicting his previous rulings.

    Scalia used to do such hypocrisy with style, Thomas will do it with a pratfall.

  112. 112.

    Martin

    November 16, 2018 at 6:42 pm

    @KSinMA: Pretty sure Trump believes that’s the motto for the Marines.

  113. 113.

    Mike in DC

    November 16, 2018 at 6:42 pm

    @Mary G: High confidence assessment too. Basically the point at which, in a normal, sane and rational political universe, the shit hits the fan and we read the Saudis the riot act. Instead we get “but muh defens kontrax!”

  114. 114.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:43 pm

    Attorneys for a Russian woman jailed on charges of seeking to infiltrate the National Rifle Association and other American conservative groups for the Russian government are in negotiations with federal prosecutors, both sides said in a court filing Friday.

    Lawyers for Maria Butina, 29, and the U.S. attorney’s office for the District made the disclosure about talks over a potential plea agreement in a two-page filing that asked U.S. District Judge Tanya S. Chutkan to postpone a Dec. 6 court hearing by about two weeks.

    Maria Butina, alleged Russian agent who met with NRA and other groups, is in plea talks

    Sing little birdy, sing!

  115. 115.

    Martin

    November 16, 2018 at 6:44 pm

    @TenguPhule: “Excuse me, would you please stand on this plastic tarp? Oh, don’t mind the 55 gallon drum, we’ll take care of that momentarily.”

  116. 116.

    Ruckus

    November 16, 2018 at 6:44 pm

    @debbie:
    The easy thing to remember is that he’s a massive narcissist. Everything is about him. My saying is that his world rotates about the giant stick stuck up his ass. And there is no other world.
    He, at some level, knows what is real. He will never, can never admit this – narcissism – but he knows. We all know our short comings. Most of us can at least admit we have them. He can not. He lies, blusters, to attempt to overcome the short comings he knows he has. The fact that he’s been doing this for over 50 yrs makes it pretty settled personality defects for him. The short comings have never gone away and were probably reenforced by his wonderful dad. He’s coped with life with lies at least since he was old enough to be called an adult. But reality is that he’s about 5-7 yrs old, maturity wise.
    Oh and he’s president.

  117. 117.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:45 pm

    @Ruckus:

    We all know our short comings.

    I’m sorry, but we are talking about Donald Trump here.

  118. 118.

    KSinMA

    November 16, 2018 at 6:45 pm

    @Martin: I have no doubt of it!

  119. 119.

    Yutsano

    November 16, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    being invited to the USMC birthday dinner

    Oh sure. Mr. Tiara gets an invite. :P

    I’m joking. Every time there was an opportunity my date was somewhere else on the planet.

  120. 120.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:47 pm

    As wildfires rage in California, smoke has made the air quality unhealthy.

    This has got to be the biggest understatement in a newpaper byline I have ever seen.

  121. 121.

    MisterForkbeard

    November 16, 2018 at 6:48 pm

    @StringOnAStick: That was my thought, too. You handle forestry through (basically) controlled logging and controlled fires. It’s not the fucking LEAVES that are the problem – it’s the deadwood and dry ground cover that presents the problem.

    And even then, a *normal* forest fire would still have been caught by the Santa Ana winds and caused immense damage. The idea that “raking” would have prevented it is patently insane.

  122. 122.

    trollhattan

    November 16, 2018 at 6:51 pm

    @StringOnAStick:
    At the end of the day, wingnuts all think we should clearcut ever forest every twenty-five years and that “saving trees and owls” is stupid hippie shit. Donny can shove the rake up his arse.

    Click this Camp Fire mapover to satellite view to see how they’ve logged the shit out of the area north of Highway 70, which is exactly the path the fire traveled to Paradise out of the Feather River Canyon origin point in just a couple hours.

    “Not raked.” If you want to be helpful Donny, take us back to the days when we had two or three big October storms to end the fire season.

  123. 123.

    Ruckus

    November 16, 2018 at 6:52 pm

    @japa21:
    Told you I was probably wrong. It’s my trademark. Be wrong about something every day. Good to see I’m keeping the flame going.
    Now.
    Is there a list of actual war zones that were visited by which president while in office?
    I also may have a narrower view of the term war zone than others.
    I’m interested.

  124. 124.

    MisterForkbeard

    November 16, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    @Yutsano: Yeah. Abrams specifically says she’s NOT conceding, because that would imply that Kemp won fairly or deserved it. She basically says that given the actions he’s taken, there’s no plausible way for her to ‘win’ the election so she’s not going to pursue this particular contest any longer, but that it was an illegitimate ‘win’ by Kemp. Which is basically correct.

    Instead, she’s starting a new voting rights groups specifically targeting Georgia and Kemp’s various shenanigans. I wish her luck in that and I hope it keeps her profile public.

  125. 125.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    @Mike in DC: It’s a pretty clear diss of MBS, since his own brother was involved:

    In reaching its conclusions, the CIA examined multiple sources of intelligence, including a phone call that the prince’s brother Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, had with Khashoggi, according to the people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the intelligence. Khalid told Khashoggi, a contributing columnist to The Washington Post, that he should go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to retrieve the documents and gave him assurances that it would be safe to do so.

    It is not clear if Khalid knew that Khashoggi would be killed, but he made the call at his brother’s direction, according to the people familiar with the call, which was intercepted by U.S. intelligence.

    The Saudis are indignantly denying this, but come on. Why isn’t it obvious to these people that the NSA hears every breath they take on the phone?

    This too is a pretty big fuck you to the Saudis, Twitler and Prince Jared:

    The CIA sees Mohammed as a “good technocrat,” the U.S. official said, but also as volatile and arrogant, someone who “goes from zero to 60, doesn’t seem to understand that there are some things you can’t do.”

    CIA analysts believe he has a firm grip on power and is not in danger of losing his status as heir to the throne despite the Khashoggi scandal. “The general agreement is that he is likely to survive,” the official said, adding that Mohammed’s role as the future Saudi king is “taken for granted.”

    Same as the president and his family. We’ll let them stay, but we know they are idiots.

  126. 126.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 16, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    @Yutsano: remind me sometime when I’m not in between sets at the gym to tell you the story of how my Marine teammate blew out the seat of his dress blues en route to the dinner one year. And a good time was had by all!

  127. 127.

    trollhattan

    November 16, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    @trollhattan:
    Trying map linkie again.

  128. 128.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 6:58 pm

    More then 630 presumed missing in California Fires.

    damn.

  129. 129.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 16, 2018 at 7:00 pm

    @TenguPhule: This one from Marketwatch still comes out on top, so to speak:
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/84221608-C9E4-11E0-A28C-00212803FAD6

    Bottoming is a messy process
    By Mark Hulbert

  130. 130.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 7:01 pm

    Aides close to Abrams said that since the election she had been wrestling with competing priorities: She wanted to advance her assertions that Georgia’s elections process — which Kemp managed as secretary of state — makes it too hard for some citizens to vote. But she also recognized that a protracted legal fight would harm that cause and potentially her political future.

    I’m not sure I understand how a protracted legal battle over Kemp and the GOP’s voter suppression harms the cause of voter rights.

    Stacey Abrams says she can’t win Georgia governor’s race

  131. 131.

    Sandia Blanca

    November 16, 2018 at 7:02 pm

    @Chris T.: Nice to know I’m not the only one who keeps that peeve for a pet. Same issue applies to breath and breathe, frequently misused. (Also teeth/teethe.)

  132. 132.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 7:07 pm

    Thanksgiving is less than a week away, and federal health officials are still trying to identify the source of a salmonella illness outbreak linked to raw turkey products that has spread to 35 states and sickened 164 people.

    The outbreak, which started a year ago, has sent 63 people to the hospital. One person in California has died. The salmonella strain has been found in raw turkey pet food in Minnesota, raw turkey products collected from people’s homes and live turkeys from several states, indicating the bacteria is widespread in the industry.

    No common supplier has been identified, according to officials at the Agriculture Department and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, so consumer groups are asking for the names of the brands and the slaughterhouses and processing facilities where the outbreak strain has been found in samples.

    But I’m sure everything is just fine. //s

  133. 133.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 7:08 pm

    @Martin:

    Look, Trump can’t reasonably be expected to visit combat zones given their motto of “Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.”

    Nicely garbled. You get full marks.

  134. 134.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 7:10 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    That headline writer deserves a bonus

  135. 135.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 7:11 pm

    @TenguPhule: I see her speech not so much as a concession as a declaration of war.

  136. 136.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 7:13 pm

    @Jay:

    Maybe the “reason” why The Insane Clown POSus doesn’t “believe” in “the missions” is because “they arn’t taking the oil”?

    He doesn’t believe in the missions because he hasn’t figured out how to get his cut. The moment he does, it’ll be all-out war with everyone.

  137. 137.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 7:13 pm

    @Baud: I want old white guys in politics and in the media gone, too. So I guess we’re even?

  138. 138.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 7:19 pm

    @Baud:
    I love the fact it is because she is too progressive. Apparently Dump is not the only moron who missed the outcome of last week Tuesday

    They cannot be gone too soon.

  139. 139.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 7:21 pm

    @Mary G:

    I see her speech not so much as a concession as a declaration of war.

    I don’t understand not taking the fight to court. The Republicans do this to us all the time whenever they can, even if its just to eat up time.

  140. 140.

    TenguPhule

    November 16, 2018 at 7:24 pm

    It’s been a long week for Trey Glenn, a Trump administration appointee who oversees eight states in the Southeast for the Environmental Protection Agency.

    On Monday came word that Glenn, an EPA regional administrator based in Atlanta, had been indicted by a grand jury in Alabama on violations of state ethics laws. According to the Alabama Ethics Commission, Glenn has been charged with use of his office for personal gain and soliciting or receiving a “thing of value” from a principal or lobbyist.

    The charges facing Glenn and a former business partner appeared to stem from past work helping a coal company fight liability in an EPA-mandated cleanup of a polluted site in north Birmingham.

    EPA’s top Southeast official out on bail, faces state ethics charges

    Only the best people, am i right?

  141. 141.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 7:25 pm

    @KSinMA:

    Um, pretty sure “Neither snow nor rain nor heat,” etc., is the motto of the U.S. Post Office, not the armed forces (no idea whether the USPS adopted it).

    The line was originally from Herodotus and was his description of the Persian imperial courier service. Somebody thought the translation sounded good and put it on one of the big post offices in New York City, and it’s become an unofficial motto of the USPS since then.

  142. 142.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 7:28 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Johnson visited Cam Rahn Bay and Saigon.

    Things were different then, however. Back then while you might target Military/Security high officials for assasination, the top Political Leaders were mostly left alone, because those wars were “won” through negotiations, not battles,

    And if you killed off the top political leaders, there was no way to end the war.

    Now of course, the top political leaders are targetted all the time so that the wars never end.

  143. 143.

    raven

    November 16, 2018 at 7:31 pm

    @Jay: Tricky Dick visited the Nam when I was there.

  144. 144.

    Amir Khalid

    November 16, 2018 at 7:32 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    That’s a headline, not a byline. A byline is the line that goes “By [reporter’s name]”.

  145. 145.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 16, 2018 at 7:36 pm

    Open Thread?

    I have just downloaded and started reading Michelle Obama’s Becoming. Not even through chapter one yet, but damn!, that lady can write!!

  146. 146.

    Amir Khalid

    November 16, 2018 at 7:39 pm

    @raven:
    I reckon you have as much reason to say “Fuck Tricky Dick” as you have to say “Fuck LBJ”.

  147. 147.

    raven

    November 16, 2018 at 7:40 pm

    The people in Paradise can us help.

    Donate here.

  148. 148.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 7:40 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Did you see Michelle on Jimmy Kimmel last night? Charming, as always.

    It was so gracious of Lin-Manuel Miranda to have (mostly) given up his slot on the show to make room for Michelle. I think he was only on for about 10 minutes. I just love him, too. He’s so interesting, and his eyes and face are so expressive.

  149. 149.

    raven

    November 16, 2018 at 7:40 pm

    @Amir Khalid: More.

  150. 150.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 16, 2018 at 7:50 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    I’ve tried to see her on all of her TV book tour appearances. Loved her with Oprah, and especially Ellen (Costco: “They go low, we get high!!” LOL, hilarious!)

    But the interview that pricked my eyes with tears was the TODAY Show interview with Jenna Bush Hager. Really good, sensitive, honest conversation. I am amazed I’m even saying that, but it’s twue.

  151. 151.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 16, 2018 at 7:51 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I have to say, this prehapas the first time we have had a president completely not interested in the office. I’ve had them incapacitated like Wilson or broken by a crises like Buchanan, but never just doesn’t care.

    Andrew Johnson, maybe?

  152. 152.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 7:53 pm

    MBS’s brother doubles down:

    As we told the Washington Post the last contact I had with Mr. Khashoggi was via text on Oct 26 2017. I never talked to him by phone and certainly never suggested he go to Turkey for any reason. I ask the US government to release any information regarding this claim.— Khalid bin Salman خالد بن سلمان (@kbsalsaud) November 16, 2018

  153. 153.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 16, 2018 at 7:53 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Fick Trucky Duck!

  154. 154.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 7:57 pm

    @raven:

    Yup, but my point was that “back then” what might be as you said “a war zone” for combattants and civillians, wasn’t other than by accident, for political leaders.

    Now the strategy is for the stronger to kill the weaker and more moderate so that:

    -there’s “nobody to negotiate with”
    -the enemies descent into extremism hopefully causes them to implode and fracture.

    That way, the wars never end.

  155. 155.

    jl

    November 16, 2018 at 7:57 pm

    Makes as much sense as Trump’s excuses (edit: meant to type lies) for not attending WWII centenary because of light mist and showers.

  156. 156.

    frosty

    November 16, 2018 at 7:58 pm

    @Fleeting Expletive: “Be Best” for a salutation is just awesome. I’ll have to remember it for my execrable Rep and one of two Senators.

  157. 157.

    Kay

    November 16, 2018 at 7:58 pm

    @Yutsano:

    So it’s possible some good will come at the end of this.

    I think it’s huge. An African American woman was really competitive in Georgia for a state-wide race. Think about the group of voters who came together to make that happen. You could really do something with that. I mean, what was her near-miss composed of? Urban AA and white, suburban, and I guess rural African Americans? Could you mitigate rural whites running up vote totals by countering with turnout with rural AA’s in other counties? The whole thing is just full of possibilities. It’s a whole new landscape for Democrats. It will get attention and investment, if for no other reason than it’s something new.

  158. 158.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 7:59 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    any historians out there that can answer a Dirty Dick question?

    Was he the first Presidential candidate to commit treason in order to win the election? It seemed to start a tradition for GOP candidates but I cannot think of an earlier example

  159. 159.

    Wakeshift

    November 16, 2018 at 7:59 pm

    @Sandia Blanca:

    The only that kills me everywhere is “loose” vs “lose”.

    Thanks to all the pedant jackals here for holding the line!

  160. 160.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 8:02 pm

    @jl:

    WWI

  161. 161.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 8:05 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    We don’t know who was involved in The Businessman’s Plot or the America First movement.

    Nixon was the first successful one, followed by Reagan, Bush 41, Dolt 45 and The Insane Clown POSus.

  162. 162.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Loved heron Ellen! They are so fun together. Missed the one you are talking about.

  163. 163.

    Kay

    November 16, 2018 at 8:09 pm

    @Yutsano:

    I don’t think people have really realized how Abrams and Gillum change things for AA candidates. They weren’t running in AA House districts or state legislative districts. They almost won southern statewide elections. Big states, too! Governors and also of course, it means senators. That changes things. It gives them real power within the Democratic Party. They can expand the map. We all talked about it with the Alabama senate race but that was AA voters. This is candidates.

  164. 164.

    Emma

    November 16, 2018 at 8:11 pm

    @TenguPhule: Both should be at the ready depending on the process.

  165. 165.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 16, 2018 at 8:11 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Here’s the link.

    https://youtu.be/5QLL-jM30QA

  166. 166.

    debbie

    November 16, 2018 at 8:13 pm

    @Wakeshift:

    Speaking as someone with more than 30 years of editing under her belt, I say let it go here and save it for the more traditional forms of writing. The immediacy of social media is ruined by pendants dwelling on things other than the thought being expressed. Besides, bastard Autocorrect gets the best of us all from time to time!

  167. 167.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2018 at 8:16 pm

    @Jay:
    The real thing is that political leaders are now seen as valid military targets. The goal is to kill the enemy leadership (decapitation strike) as a means of destroying their capacity to resist. It’s effective militarily in the short term- leadership is important in maintaining a coherent resistance- but as you point out it makes it harder to negotiate a peace agreement, or even a surrender, when the enemy military is defeated. I’m not sure it would count as the original example, but the US military seems to have adopted it more and more after the attack on Muammar Ghadaffi’s home after the Berlin disco bombing in 1986.

  168. 168.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 8:16 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thank you! I opened it in a tab to watch later this evening.

    I wonder if there’s something special about being with someone else who understands what it’s like to live in the White House under that spotlight?

  169. 169.

    Schlemazel

    November 16, 2018 at 8:21 pm

    @Jay:
    I had completely forgotten that we had an actual coup attempt in the US, thanks for reminding me. But I would have ruled that out I was think more actual ‘legitimate’ major party candidate selling us out to a foreign nation

  170. 170.

    Yarrow

    November 16, 2018 at 8:21 pm

    @WaterGirl: Did the Bush twins ever actually live in the White House? Weren’t they headed to college when W got elected? I know they were in and out of it their entire lives because their grandpa was VP then Pres and then Daddy was elected Pres so it’s like a second home for them. But outside of coming back for holiday breaks they never lived there did they?

  171. 171.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2018 at 8:24 pm

    @debbie:

    ruined by pendants

    You better thank your lucky stars Steeplejack is missing in action.

  172. 172.

    Dan B

    November 16, 2018 at 8:24 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: On the topic of polarization in the military, particularly between straight white enlisted men and everyone else I wonder how much Facebook is fueling the divisions.

    Here’s one big piece of my current interest: Independent Lens, The Cleaners. Eleven minutes, from 1:00.00 to 1:11.30 boggled my mind.

    I thought I understood the perils of social media. Nancy Smash (or Barbara Fudge – or whoever) we need an investigation of the extreme viewpoints Facebook ignores.

  173. 173.

    Mary G

    November 16, 2018 at 8:25 pm

    @Kay: This, this, this. If you had told me the week after Trump was elected that two unashamedly nationally unknown progressive African-American politicians, one a woman, would end up coming so close to beating the GOP candidates in Georgia and Florida that the Republicans would have to cheat to win, and still end up in a recount, I would have said you were crazy. This is a major sea change and so many possibilities have been opened up for the future. I get so exasperated at the people today bitching about Stacey conceding. Christ, she said in her speech she wasn’t conceding. She’s just pointing out that their suppression tactics were legally successful this time, and vowing to expose the rot and change the laws for the next election. You know Republicans everywhere are scared shitless of her.

  174. 174.

    debbie

    November 16, 2018 at 8:27 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Believe me, I checked for him before posting!

  175. 175.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    @Yarrow: You may well be right. I had no use for the twins when Bush was in office, so I didn’t pay much attention. Maybe she and Michelle connected for some other reason.

  176. 176.

    Dan B

    November 16, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    @Dan B: BTW the entire The Cleaners is good but the eleven minutes that documents a couple consequences is Pulitzer level journalism.

    It feels as though they buried the coverage of Facebook fueled violence because leading with it would be so explosive.

  177. 177.

    Steve in the ATL

    November 16, 2018 at 8:32 pm

    @feloniousferb:

    I’ve been reading this blog for years. Never commented.

    Thank god Florida finally restored your right to post!

  178. 178.

    Dan B

    November 16, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    @debbie: Speaking of conceding too quickly I wonder if John Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Schlapp are having flashbacks to the Brooks Brothers Riot in 2000?
    Stacey Abrams showed us the Dem version: Stay principled and don’t leave your integrity in the dirt even if you don’t win the battle.

  179. 179.

    Steve in the ATL

    November 16, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    @Yarrow:

    when W got elected

    Are we doing alternative history now?

  180. 180.

    Kay

    November 16, 2018 at 8:36 pm

    @Mary G:

    If you had told me the week after Trump was elected that two unashamedly nationally unknown progressive African-American politicians, one a woman, would end up coming so close to beating the GOP candidates in Georgia and Florida that the Republicans would have to cheat to win, and still end up in a recount, I would have said you were crazy.

    Absolutely. I’m confident it will get a lot of attention, though, because it’s a different route and political parties are always looking for a different route. I believe it’s part of why there’s that challenge to Pelosi. They know the ground is shifting. Pelosi, wisely, immediately allied herself with the up and comers, because she’s smart :)

    I;m excited about it. I get bored with the same old battles. Let’s back something different, because it’s happening anyway so we may as well go with it.

  181. 181.

    Dan B

    November 16, 2018 at 8:46 pm

    @StringOnAStick: Infrastructure Year, raking forests! And it’s a job creator!! /s

    My neice’s husband is a forest fire aftermath / soil scientist from So Cal, working in Oregon & Northern CA, S WA. We have fascinating conversations in between corralling the twins.

  182. 182.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    @Corner Stone: @debbie: I don’t get why you slag on Steeplejack as being a pedant — there are a ton of pedants here on BJ.

    Which reminds me of a funny incident that happened when I worked at the university. A bunch of people often went to lunch together, and one day there were too many people to fit into the van. One young guy popped up and said “that’s okay, I’ll walk, I’m a pedophile”.

    Oops – he was treated to lots of laughter on that one.

  183. 183.

    Steve in the ATL

    November 16, 2018 at 8:53 pm

    @WaterGirl: hi!

  184. 184.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 8:55 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Are you self-identifying as a pedant?

  185. 185.

    Steve in the ATL

    November 16, 2018 at 8:59 pm

    @WaterGirl: yes. I may also be a loose pendant, but that might make me shutter.

  186. 186.

    Dan B

    November 16, 2018 at 9:00 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: This is a terrible combination of OMG TMI? and we gotta hear this story! Now!!

    Sorta like Colbert did in his opening monologue last night.

  187. 187.

    debbie

    November 16, 2018 at 9:01 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    He’s one of the least annoying, but every typo made by a FPer doesn’t have to be pointed out and chided.The language is strong enough to endure.

  188. 188.

    WaterGirl

    November 16, 2018 at 9:06 pm

    @debbie: I agree with you.

    There used to be a dean at our college who liked to say “not everything needs to be a 4-color publication”. By the same token, I have different rules for various forms of communication. I know when and how to use a semicolon, but in a blog post I often use a comma instead because it’s less formal and more conversational.

    Some people just don’t seem to be able to turn it off. Once a copy editor, always a copy editor! :-)

  189. 189.

    Jay

    November 16, 2018 at 9:19 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    The first examples I am aware of the policy was the Israeli’s targetting of moderate Palistinians, starting in the 1948, in Israel and the Occupied Territories to ensure that Palistinian resistence remained centered on the PLO and other militant groups.

    The only example of “success” I know of is in the Algerian Dirty War. Eventually the Islamic Armed Groups were ground down to one last hold out, dying in a chicken shed, who had killed off the last of the groups leadership for not being “Islamic” enough.

    While it “won” the war, it didn’t solve any of Algeria’s problems, killed probably over a million, and just postponed next the Civil War by two decades.

  190. 190.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 16, 2018 at 9:41 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    there are a ton of pedants here on BJ.

    Oh, hai.

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