Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

The revolution will be supervised.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

He really is that stupid.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

I was promised a recession.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Let there be snark.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Terrifying Read: “‘Nothing on this page is real’”

Terrifying Read: “‘Nothing on this page is real’”

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It is, in truth, one heckuva story. Neither of the main characters have anything but the best of intentions, and yet… Kudos to the Washington Post for demonstrating “How lies become truth in online America“:

NORTH WATERBORO, Maine — The only light in the house came from the glow of three computer monitors, and Christopher Blair, 46, sat down at a keyboard and started to type. His wife had left for work and his children were on their way to school, but waiting online was his other community, an unreality where nothing was exactly as it seemed. He logged onto his website and began to invent his first news story of the day…

He had launched his new website on Facebook during the 2016 presidential campaign as a practical joke among friends — a political satire site started by Blair and a few other liberal bloggers who wanted to make fun of what they considered to be extremist ideas spreading throughout the far right. In the last two years on his page, America’s Last Line of Defense, Blair had made up stories about California instituting sharia, former president Bill Clinton becoming a serial killer, undocumented immigrants defacing Mount Rushmore, and former president Barack Obama dodging the Vietnam draft when he was 9. “Share if you’re outraged!” his posts often read, and thousands of people on Facebook had clicked “like” and then “share,” most of whom did not recognize his posts as satire. Instead, Blair’s page had become one of the most popular on Facebook among Trump-supporting conservatives over 55.

“Nothing on this page is real,” read one of the 14 disclaimers on Blair’s site, and yet in the America of 2018 his stories had become real, reinforcing people’s biases, spreading onto Macedonian and Russian fake news sites, amassing an audience of as many 6 million visitors each month who thought his posts were factual. What Blair had first conceived of as an elaborate joke was beginning to reveal something darker. “No matter how racist, how bigoted, how offensive, how obviously fake we get, people keep coming back,” Blair once wrote, on his own personal Facebook page. “Where is the edge? Is there ever a point where people realize they’re being fed garbage and decide to return to reality?”…

***********
It was barely dawn in Pahrump, Nev., when Shirley Chapian, 76, logged onto Facebook for her morning computer game of Criminal Case. She believed in starting each day with a problem-solving challenge, a quick mental exercise to keep her brain sharp more than a decade into retirement. For a while it had been the daily crossword puzzle, but then the local newspaper stopped delivering and a friend introduced her to the viral Facebook game with 65 million players. She spent an hour as a 1930s detective, interrogating witnesses and trying to parse their lies from the truth until finally she solved case No. 48 and clicked over to her Facebook news feed…

The house was empty and quiet except for the clicking of her computer mouse. She lived alone, and on many days her only personal interaction occurred here, on Facebook. Mixed into her morning news feed were photos and updates from some of her 300 friends, but most items came directly from political groups Chapian had chosen to follow: “Free Speech Patriots,” “Taking Back America,” “Ban Islam,” “Trump 2020” and “Rebel Life.” Each political page published several posts each day directly into Chapian’s feed, many of which claimed to be “BREAKING NEWS.”…

She had lived much of her life in cities throughout Europe and across the United States — places such as San Francisco, New York and Miami. She’d gone to college for a few years and become an insurance adjuster, working as one of the few women in the field in the 1980s and ’90s and joining the National Organization for Women to advocate for an equal wage before eventually moving to Rhode Island to work for a hospice and care for her aging parents. After her mother died, Chapian decided to retire and move to Las Vegas to live with a friend, and when Las Vegas become too expensive a real estate agent told her about Pahrump. She bought a three-bedroom trailer for less than $100,000 and painted it purple. She met a few friends at the local senior center and started eating at the Thai restaurant in town. A few years after arriving, she bought a new computer monitor and signed up for Facebook in 2009, choosing as her profile image a photo of her cat…

Chapian didn’t believe everything she read online, but she was also distrustful of mainstream fact-checkers and reported news. It sometimes felt to her like real facts had become indiscernible — that the truth was often somewhere in between. What she trusted most was her own ability to think critically and discern the truth, and increasingly her instincts aligned with the online community where she spent most of her time. It had been months since she’d gone to a movie. It had been almost a year since she’d made the hour-long trip to Las Vegas. Her number of likes and shares on Facebook increased each year until she was sometimes awakening to check her news feed in the middle of the night, liking and commenting on dozens of posts each day. She felt as if she was being let in on a series of dark revelations about the United States, and it was her responsibility to see and to share them.

“I’m not a conspiracy-theory-type person, but . . .” she wrote, before sharing a link to an unsourced story suggesting that Democratic donor George Soros had been a committed Nazi, or that a Parkland shooting survivor was actually a paid actor…

If only Zuckerberg had been content to stick with objectifying the women in his Harvard class… yeah, I know, *someone* was gonna introduce a Facebook-style tech weapon into our badly prepared society. We’re a herd animal, and the Faceborg is an invisible village accessible to even those least prepared to live responsibly. WASF.

Reader Interactions

143Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    I wish this wasn’t real.

    The Trump administration is preparing to add Venezuela to the U.S. list of state sponsors of terrorism in what would be a dramatic escalation against the socialist government of Nicolás Maduro, according to U.S. officials and internal government emails.

    The list is reserved for governments accused of repeatedly providing “support for acts of international terrorism” and includes only Iran, North Korea, Sudan and Syria.

    Republican lawmakers led by Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) have pushed for the designation, citing Venezuela’s alleged ties to Lebanese Hezbollah, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, and other groups.

    Republicans have long accused Venezuela of having ties to terrorist organizations. But experts have played down the threat and strength of those connections. They warn that a designation that does not offer concrete evidence could weaken the legitimacy of the U.S. list, which critics say already is applied inconsistently.

    “I suspect this will be based on hearsay and sources of questionable integrity,” said David Smilde, a senior fellow at the Washington Office on Latin America.

    They are going to attack Venezuela at this rate.

    Operation Fuck it Let’s Stop Pretending Anymore.

  3. 3.

    TenguPhule

    What she trusted most was her own ability to think critically and discern the truth, and increasingly her instincts aligned with the online community where she spent most of her time.

    And so her inner fascist slowly came out into the open.

  11. 11.

    Kifaru1

    So someone I know posted an article on FaceBook today. The title was something like: “Scientists who reported on cancer enzymes in vaccines found dead”. I think I need to unfriend her. That is the most ridiculous headline, in a ridiculous time… I can’t deal with the stupid anymore!

  13. 13.

    gwanung

    Yeah. Kinda sad, seeing old progressives and socialists get into the game of defending Russia and making wild claims about the Clinton foundations (the latter of which left me shaking my head; I’ve spent 30 YEARS analyzing foundation documents and they think I’m a neoliberal sellout…).

  16. 16.

    lamh36

    Welp…

    @yashar
    4m4 minutes ago
    More
    NEW: The woman who accused Michael Avenatti of domestic violence has now filed for a restraining order against the attorney. According to court records, actress Mareli Miniutti filed for a domestic violence restraining order against Avenatti Monday in LA.

  17. 17.

    hells littlest angel

    Terrifying and sad. People who retire and find themselves with nothing to do are ripe for the plucking. If I were the Parallax Corporation they’d be who I’d recruit.

  18. 18.

    jl

    One of the dolts behind the anti-Pelosi movement is trying to explain himself. It doesn’t make much sense. He, as far as i can figure, claims there are others who won’t come forward to oppose Pelosi even though she is unpopular, because she is so popular that if they go public, their constituents will show up at town halls and make them unpleasant for the very not-brave undercover Pelosi opponents in the House.

    @PerryNBCBoston
    NEW: Moulton says the idea behind the letter to oust Pelosi has been talked about for the last few months. He says he did not write the letter. He said there are representatives in the dark who back the letter, but didn’t want to face contentious town halls. #NBC10Boston.
    https://twitter.com/PerryNBCBoston/status/1064680820668010496

    I also notice that after Tim Ryan bravely offered to sacrifice himself as an alternative candidate, no one has even mentioned it, not even these center-right bozos and confused people who are the last hold outs. This is the same stunt they tried last time House Dems had to elect a speaker, and I hope/predict that it will have the same result: not one damn thing, and Pelosi as the new Speaker.

    I don’t think the Speaker of the House even has to be a member of the House or even hold elective political office. So, to make it fun, these loser mooks could at least find someone exciting and new. Like, I dunno, The Rock? Beyonce? Taylor Swift? John Madden? (though kind of old, but he could fold in talks on the new edition of his game with press conferences. Would get a lot of news coverage. Edit: and Madden still has some good pep talks in him. Boom! Bam! Kapowee!).

    Edit: tweet found via Josh Marshall’s twitter feed, which has a sad and sorry series of entries on these goofballs.

  22. 22.

    jl

    @Gin & Tonic: ” I have been to Pahrump, NV. It explains a lot about this story. ”
    Oh yeah? I’ll have you know that Pahrump is one of the two or three areas vying for the best wine region of Nevada.

    Such unsophisticated yokels comment on this blog. I can’t believe it sometimes.

    Edit: was in Pahrump once and a local said that it was the best wine applation in Nevada, not like the other new comers. I wondered why they were trying to make Appalachian wine in Nevada, and then the conversation got a little confused.

  24. 24.

    cain

    @TenguPhule:
    There is no need to interfere. I expect Brasil and Venezuela to go at it eventually. The shit going down in that continent.. jeezus. I don’t know who is to blame.. I suspect we’re part of this.

  27. 27.

    jl

    @cain: At this point I am just waiting to find out how far down California is on the list. And when will we get hit with sanctions for not raking our gigantic huge state-run forests, which are a mess, a total mess, not classy or top at all, like good little boys and girls.

  28. 28.

    Gin & Tonic

    @jl:

    vying for the best wine region of Nevada

    Is that like trying to be the best surfing spot in Labrador?

  31. 31.

    Aleta

    Sam Wang Retweeted
    amy walter @amyewalter
    Incumbent Dems who signed “anti-Pelosi” letter sit in safe seats. They seem to be willing to make vulnerable frosh D’s in tough CDs take a vote that could doom their chances of re-election. Also, if those vulnerable D’s lose in 2020, D’s likely lose the House.

    Sam Wang @SamWangPhD
    Constituents of Rep. Seth Moulton (MA-6th) can reach him at (202) 225-8020 or (978) 531-1669.

    Hairpiece McTinyPecker @rehemaneema
    This is so infuriating. We’re in a fight for the soul of our country and my congressman is choosing to divide our party.

  32. 32.

    Anne Laurie

    @jl: Tim Ryan is convinced that, sooner or later, the rest of the world will understand that Tim Ryan is the BEST and ONLY person to be Speaker. This is the sort of self-involvement that is not susceptible to argument.

    Seth Moulton is a natural Republican, but people with the (R) label in Massachusetts only get elected to the governor’s office (stupid Masshole tic), and Seth Moulton intends to be President. He’s not as clueless as Ryan, but his self-interest is every bit as naked. He’s also, AFAIKT, smarter than Tim Ryan — not a high bar — so the abuse he’s currently taking from his actual constituents & people threatening to donate to a challenger might persuade him to change his mind, she said optimistically.

  33. 33.

    trnc

    @jl:

    I don’t think the Speaker of the House even has to be a member of the House or even hold elective political office.

    I’m surprised Prez ToadGlanz hasn’t announced his run for it yet.

  34. 34.

    trollhattan

    @Raven:
    Yeesh. Is that from the Cal Fire interactive map widget? Great resource, but enervating to use.

    Our friend is holed up in a Chico hotel. Only know second-hand info but he was one of many who took off in his car, was stuck in traffic and had to hoof it down the road ahead of the fire. Imagine the hundreds who could not hoof it.

  35. 35.

    Raven

    @Immanentize: Well our conversation yesterday was pretty intense but he was pretty firm that they are going to be fine financially, only time will do the rest.

  36. 36.

    lamh36

    Hmmm…if this holds up… Bye Bye Mia.

    @Redistrict
    4m4 minutes ago
    More Dave Wasserman Retweeted Robert Tehrke ?
    Breaking: Ben McAdams (D) takes the lead over Rep. Mia Love (R) by 739 votes in #UT04 (and my apologies to @RobertGehrke!).

  39. 39.

    Immanentize

    @Anne Laurie: I really think that district needs an Ayanna Pressley. All the big name endorsements did bupkus for Capuano, who is a much better progressive than Moulton.

  40. 40.

    Raven

    @trollhattan: Yea, the were in two cars and at one point decided to get in one to die together. They are now somewhere near the ocean and planning to get an RV.

  42. 42.

    Raven

    @Immanentize: It just depended I guess, they said the wood posts on the guard rails were in flames. The fence is probably far enough from a fire source to survive. . . I guess.

  43. 43.

    jl

    @Raven: both of my connections in Pardise area are safe. One drove his van with family to relatives south of Chico. Another got himself a hotel room near Chico, and finally had time to reply to concerned emails three or four days after he went missing. He lost every damn thing except his car and clothing on his back. My office is taking up collections for them, since both used to work here.

  45. 45.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Raven:

    I spoke with a couple who lost their retirement home after 32 years. The coast is filled with evacuees and the strike team we sent, 17 firefighters from five local agencies headed home today.

    Humboldt has already raised more than $22,000 and the Rotary clubs have a goal of $20,000 by Dec. 7.

    There are countless deeds being done across the region and an extraordinary amount of relief effort is being done.

  46. 46.

    lamh36

    @MSNBC
    27m27 minutes ago
    More
    Fmr. Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams tells @chrislhayes that the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial race was “not a free and fair election.”

    Keep sounding that alarm Stacey. I posted in another thread about some study showing that the Blue Wave from the last midterms was due in large part to African American voters voting in larger midterms numbers than before.

    Imagine if the same voter suppression shit that went on in GA & FL had happened in more places…how many of these close results may the Dems have lost!

    I see more than a few of the MSM trying to make Abrams stop saying the GA election was stolen…but none of them are ready for a Black candidate like Abrams who knows how to make her point eloquently but forcefully…and NOT backing down!

    Dems need more like Stacey and Gillum, IMHO.

  47. 47.

    Raven

    @Immanentize: As of yesterday they were going to try something like that. We lived in the same house in Champaign in 1972 and were in the VVAW together. He moved out there 4 decades ago and we’ve just barely stayed in touch, every 5 years or so a quick email. The last time I saw him was a crazy thing where I ran into him in the Rose Bowl restroom during Olympic Soccer in 84.

  50. 50.

    jl

    @lamh36: Good. Kemp is dangerous. He is basically a Kobach, except with brains enough to do much more damage to civil rights. Kobach can’t really get much done outside Kansas other than grifting off of wingnut dupes.

    The corporate media may try a false equivalence between GOP/Trumspter BS and what Abrams is saying. But who cares what they say, as long as she is good enough TV for them to put her on. She has the facts and the history on her side and can communicate both very effectively. And I think public is on Abrams’ side, if she can squeeze in a good face for popular voting rights reform at the end of her pitch. Corporate media will think public on Abrams side is insane, but I think it is true, and Abrams is kind of person who can make it more true.

  53. 53.

    Aleta

    @jl:

    Are they afraid she won’t try to impeach? Or afraid that she might become President and take this rare opportunity away from their chosen Person? It does somewhat remind me of the opportunism of Sanders’ campaign when he thought Trump would surely lose.

  56. 56.

    Aleta

    @Raven: When I read your comment about him, I worried for the effects of renewed PTSD symptoms on the combat vets and others living there.

  57. 57.

    Immanentize

    @Raven: And he shouldn’t have had to be terrified again. It’s like the young man, a gun enthusiast, who survived Las Vegas but got shot at Thousand Oaks. You should get a pass after you go through one serious hell.

  62. 62.

    Raven

    @Aleta: Well he certainly is worried about his wife in that regard. After talking with him it was obvious he needed to talk about it but I also am confident they’ll be ok.

  63. 63.

    JGabriel

    cain:

    The shit going down in that continent.. jeezus. I don’t know who is to blame.. I suspect we’re part of this.

    Well … considering that the US has been screwing over people and governments in South America since the Monroe Doctrine, I’m guessing it’s safe to say that pretty much everything that goes wrong down there can be traced back to us – except for the things that can be traced back to Spain and Portugal.

  64. 64.

    lamh36

    there is no such thing as a reasonable Conservative. They all eventually stay true to form…especially the Never-Chumpers…best believe soon as Chump is gone…they’ll be back to their usual anti-Dem stuff. Until then they’ll try to claim to just be giving Dems advice…

    @RadioFreeTom
    This reinforces Trump’s message about not trusting elections. If the Democrats have evidence of tampering, they should present it, make the case, and even go to court. Otherwise, this is no better than Trump’s claims of rigging and contributes to public cynicism.
    https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1064707792546738176

  65. 65.

    Aleta

    @jl: I think the Kemp corruption story is not over. Abrams took it nationwide in real time, and now she’s keeping the story open for ongoing developments instead of letting the media reduce them to tiny postscripts.

  66. 66.

    JGabriel

    Gin & Tonic:

    jl:

    I’ll have you know that Pahrump is one of the two or three areas vying for the best wine region of Nevada.

    Is that like trying to be the best surfing spot in Labrador?

    I suspect it’s more like trying to be the best surfing spot in, well, Nevada.

  67. 67.

    Jay

    @Aleta:

    They think a mediocre white male conservative can do a better job than a San Francisco Values woman with a stellar track record.

    One aspect of the ReThug’s dictating the “narrative” and the MSM’s willing complicity, is there are Democrats who believe It.

  68. 68.

    Chetan Murthy

    @JGabriel: Didn’t we support attempted coups against Chavez *twice*? [not excusing Chavez/Maduro’s incompetence & authoritarianism, just noting that we don’t have clean hands.]

  70. 70.

    Middlelee

    @jl:
    I tasted wine from Pahrump several years ago when I was still drinking. It was dreary, as is Pahrump.

  71. 71.

    cthulhu

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I have been to Pahrump, NV. It explains a lot about this story.

    The question is whether she voted for the dead brothel owner for NV state assembly.

  73. 73.

    JGabriel

    @trnc:

    I’m surprised Prez ToadGlanz hasn’t announced his run for it yet.

    He was going to, until Kelly pointed out the part in the constitution where it says you can’t work for two different branches of the federal government.

    That’s why Trump has been in such a pissy mood since the elections. He figured he didn’t have anything to worry about, ‘cuz he could just make himself Speaker, and now that he knows he can’t (Damn you, Kelly!), he just cries himself to sleep at night whimpering, “Where’s my Hopey?“

  75. 75.

    lamh36

    @thehill
    12h12 hours ago
    More
    Stacey Abrams: “I’m going to spend the next year as a private citizen but I do indeed intend to run for office again. I’m not sure for what and I am not exactly certain when. I need to take a nap – but once I do I’m planning to get back into the ring.” http://hill.cm/A245irg

  76. 76.

    JGabriel

    @lamh36:

    To recap, @sethmoulton – after comparing Nancy Pelosi to … checks notes … Margaret Thatcher

    Even worse, I’m sure Moulton thought that was compliment.

  77. 77.

    jl

    I note the bitter and envious hatred of Nevada on this blog. But I will stand strong for the honor of the state next to my state.
    First they came for the Pahrump wine, then they came for the Pisco Punch…

  79. 79.

    lamh36

    @ChrisLu44
    2h2 hours ago
    More Chris Lu Retweeted Nate Silver
    If you’re keeping track, per @nytimes, Democrats are at 37 flips right now. Brindisi has claimed victory in #NY22 for 38th flip. Adams in #UT04 would be 39. And T.J. Cox in #CA21 is closing fast for a potential 40th flip.

    What were the pundits saying about no blue wave?

  82. 82.

    lamh36

    @NateSilver538
    2h2 hours ago
    More
    Democrats are about even-money right now to wind up with *40* or more House seats. Unless there’s something we don’t know about, it looks like they’ll win UT-4, bringing their floor to 39. CA-21 is a Tossup. Then they have outside chances in GA-7 and NY-27

  83. 83.

    Jay

    @JGabriel:

    http://www.staywildmagazine.com/news/2015/6/22/on-the-shores-of-the-skraelings

    I used to surf the Tofino area year round in the late ‘70’s to the early ‘90’s.

    Then they opened a surf shop, surf schools, and the place got way too crowded. You might have to share a break with another surfer, or in the winter, an entire beach with another surfer.

    Switched to Cape Scott, then when that got too crowded, ( seeing one other surfer on a long weekend), stopped surfing there, too.

    http://www.staywildmagazine.com/news/2015/6/22/on-the-shores-of-the-skraelings

  84. 84.

    Brachiator

    @JGabriel:

    Well … considering that the US has been screwing over people and governments in South America since the Monroe Doctrine, I’m guessing it’s safe to say that pretty much everything that goes wrong down there can be traced back to us – except for the things that can be traced back to Spain and Portugal

    Or France, Britain, Germany, Russia or various South American governments.

  87. 87.

    opiejeanne

    Forgive me if someone else has brought this up, but The Onion is a satire site. What this guy created is not satire. There have been a slew of similar sites, and all of their creators really need to look up the definition of satire, because they are doing it wrong.
    The Currant was the only one I can remember right now, but the problem was that their articles were too close to the truth for satire, and people were passing them around after reading just the headline because they were often believable.

  90. 90.

    JGabriel

    @Jay: Um, the joke I was making is that Nevada is landlocked … and that trying to pick the best place to grow wine in a state that’s mostly known for desert and radioactive fallout, is as counter-intuitive as trying to pick the best place to go surfing in a state that’s mostly known for desert, radioactive fallout, and being landlocked.

    [Sigh]

    Oh well, I guess it just wasn’t that funny of a joke. They can’t all be winners.

  91. 91.

    Another Scott

    Calling Adam… MiddleEastEye:

    Saudi Arabia’s king and crown prince are shielding themselves from the Jamal Khashoggi murder scandal by using a roadmap drawn up by the US Secretary of State, a senior Saudi source has told Middle East Eye.

    Mike Pompeo delivered the plan in person during a meeting with Saudi King Salman and his son, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, last month in Riyadh, said the source, who is familiar with Pompeo’s talks with the Saudi leaders.

    The plan includes an option to pin the Saudi journalist’s murder on an innocent member of the ruling al-Saud family in order to insulate those at the very top, the source told MEE.

    That person has not yet been chosen, the source said, and Saudi leaders are reserving the use of that plan in case the pressure on bin Salman, also known as MBS, becomes too much.

    […]

    It’s crazy enough to be true, given the “leaders” we have in the Executive Branch these days.

    :-(

    Grrr…

    (via LOLGOP)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  92. 92.

    Jay

    @opiejeanne:

    The Guy didn’t create a “satire site”, he created a “fake news” aggregator, with everything clearly marked as fake news and debunked.

    Instead of becoming a source for people to use to debunk their Reich Wing Uncle’s Book of Faces rants and screeds,

    It became instead a one stop shopping source for insane wingnuts, who used it to fill their daily Book of Faces rants.

    Unintended consequences based on underestimating the stupidity and venality of much of the American Public.

  93. 93.

    maeve

    @TenguPhule:Venezuala’s collapse is an example of relying on an oil economy. I’m in Alaska so I can relate. But its held up as the example of what socialism results in. (There are lots of other issues too)

  94. 94.

    JGabriel

    @jl:

    Lot of haters on this blog.

    It’s not that I hate Nevada wine, it’s just that I’m not sure it’s healthy for a glass of wine to glow in that particular shade of greenish red.

  97. 97.

    Jay

    @Another Scott:

    The Turks have distributed the tapes and other evidence globally.

    Juan Cole at Informed Comment suggest’s that the Insane Clown POSus’s Administrations attempted moves are not about saving Mohammed Bone Saw’s ass, but instead their own.

    For those speculating that Ergodan’s using this to “trade” for something,

    The Turk’s have already put it all out there.

    This is not about dealmaking, it’s about bringing Mohammed Bone Saw and the Sawdi’s down.

    It’s not gonna hurt Prince Kushner’s relationship or US arms sales, for now,

    But it is going to result in EU and others sanctions against Sawdi Arabia.

  100. 100.

    catclub

    @Jay:

    But it is going to result in EU and others sanctions against Sawdi Arabia.

    O really? Don’t the Europeans buy Saudi Oil, unlike the US ( mostly)?

    I also think there is huge failure when the murder of one person – who might know politicians – is enough to draw sanctions, but the war crimes in Yemen are not enough.

  102. 102.

    lamh36

    ABC7 I-Team identifies doctor shot at Mercy Hospital as Dr. Tamara O’Neal: abc7.ws/2zkwpd2

    DAMN! RIP.

  103. 103.

    Aleta

    @Baud: Or do they want to be like the Tea Party back when, as a minority of the Republican reps in the R-controlled House, they blocked any R legislation that would raise taxes?

  104. 104.

    Steeplejack

    @Amir Khalid:

    It is plodding and rhetorically tone-deaf. The plural subject “we” practically cries out for a plural object, and the presence of “herd,” denoting a group of more than one animals, makes the own-goal “a herd animal” even more glaring. Something can be narrowly grammatical and still sound like crap.

  106. 106.

    catclub

    @JGabriel:

    until Kelly pointed out the part in the constitution where it says you can’t work for two different branches of the federal government.

    Unless your name is Dick Cheney.

  107. 107.

    JGabriel

    Jay:

    Donner Party Ripple

    I guess it’s time for me to hit the hay, because my eyes are so tired that I just initially scanned that as Donner Party Nipple, which gave a whole new meaning to the word breast-feeding that I’d never previously considered, and that I now rather wish I hadn’t.

    G’night, all.

  108. 108.

    jl

    @JGabriel: @Jay: :” a glass of wine to glow in that particular shade of greenish red. ”

    You two yokels are confusing Pahrump wine with the special Washoe County Holiday Season recipes for Pisco Punch. That’s your problem right there.
    I have my Holiday orders in to the finest Pisco Punch vendor in Reno, do you?

    And that stuff does have an eerie fluorescent glow to it.

  109. 109.

    Corner Stone

    Cake or Death
    ‏ @Johngcole
    2m2 minutes ago

    I wonder what I would have been in the Lord of the Rings.

    Something the orcs BBQ’d, ate and shit out.

  113. 113.

    Bess

    @jl:

    At this point I am just waiting to find out how far down California is on the list. And when will we get hit with sanctions for not raking our gigantic huge state-run forests, which are a mess, a total mess, not classy or top at all

    I live in California surrounded on three sides by federal forests.

    Trump has yet to rake a single square meter this year.

  114. 114.

    dopey-o

    @JGabriel:

    Well … considering that the US has been screwing over people and governments in South America since the Monroe Doctrine, I’m guessing it’s safe to say that pretty much everything that goes wrong down there can be traced back to us – except for the things that can be traced back to Spain and Portugal.

    Don’t forget the Vatican, who divvied up South America between the Spanish and the Portugese.

    Same Vatican (different pope) who gave Ireland to the English. Same Vatican (different popes) who covered up the pedophiles. Need I go on?

  116. 116.

    Jay

    @catclub:

    There’s lot’s of sources of oil other than Sawdi,

    The Europeans mostly buy Russian and former Soviet Oil and have struck deals for Iranian and Iraqi Oil.

    The Sawdi’s dominance of the oil perception, was that with US Military backing and the largest “proven” cheap oil reserves, they could economically crush any other member of OPEC, by overproducing and driving down prices.

    Their control of the OPEC Syndicate gave them global control of oil pricing.

    Unfirtunately for them, bad practices, over pumping, salt intrusion, left them unable to produce the volumes needed to keep oil prices down during Dolt 45’s WW Me Too and probably crippled a lot of their reserves.

    Not that long ago, they tried to overproduce to kill off “nonconventional oil producers”, and failed, instead they were blowing through their Soverign Wealth Fund at up to $100 million a day, and had to introduce “austerity” measures, from slashing subsidies to not paying their bills.

    In the process, along with their attacks on Quatar, they “broke” OPEC.

    Mohammed Bone Saw’s kidnapping and torturing the Sawdi Wealthy to shake them down for money, has stuck a paltry amount back in the bank.

  118. 118.

    jl

    @Jay: Nevada Test Site is a popular cocktail in some parts. I’ve never tried it, though.
    After it hardens you can use it for an emergency road flare if you can break it in half.

  119. 119.

    sm*t cl*de

    @Mnemosyne:

    There is one (1) guy who appears to have been connected to the anti-vaccine movement who committed suicide. The others were unconnected.

    Bradstreet was a serial cancer / autism scammer who killed himself after the FBI knocked at his door… he started out as a preacher, trying to exorcise the Demons of Autism, but shifted to Alternative Medicine as potentially more profitable. His family decided that the most appropriate tribute to his career of fraud would be to set up a GoFundMe account to scam money from strangers (purportedly to re-investigate his suicide).

    The interesting thing about the whole “Suspicious Deaths of Doctors” is that we know the grifters who started it.

  120. 120.

    VOR

    @opiejeanne: Heck, I constantly see stories from The Onion being passed around by the few remaining wingnuts on my Facebook feed. They can’t seem to discern between satire and reality. Too subtle, I guess.

    Oh, and they seem to distrust Snopes, says it is biased.

  121. 121.

    Aleta

    @Another Scott: Also from your link:

    After his meetings (in mid-October) Pompeo said he advised the Saudis to conduct a transparent investigation.

    “We had direct and candid conversations. I emphasised the importance of conducting a thorough, transparent and timely investigation, and the Saudi leadership pledged to deliver precisely on that,” he said.

    “My assessment from these meetings is that there is serious commitment to determine all the facts and ensure accountability, including accountability for Saudi Arabia’s senior leaders or senior officials.”

    And last week a Saudi prosecutor said he wanted the death penalty for the people who committed the murder.

    They’re not at all concerned, not MsB, not Pompeo.

  123. 123.

    Jay

    @maeve:

    Venezuela’s biggest problems don’t come from being a PetroState,

    They come from a rich/poor divide that traces all the way back to the Spanish Conquest.

  124. 124.

    Jay

    @Aleta:

    Juan Cole says otherwise.

    Part of the problem with being both a lousy and stupid poker player, is you have to keep doubling down on your hand to stay in the game,….

  125. 125.

    Aleta

    @Jay:
    One aspect of the ReThug’s dictating the “narrative” and the MSM’s willing complicity, is there are Democrats who believe It.

    It’s an important point. Wonder if it’s related to the idea that our brains accept or disregard information depending on whether it confirms what we already believe.

  126. 126.

    Jay

    @Aleta:

    BTW, keep in mind that these are “Bubble Boys”. They are trying to craft a “narrative” and show trials that get’s them off all “scot free”, relying soley on the information, perceptions and beliefs of those also in the same bubble.

  127. 127.

    trollhattan

    Checking in on Butte County and tonight’s Camp Fire status:
    Death toll 79
    Dwellings lost approaching 12,000
    Containment 70%

    At some point tomorrow night rain will hit the region, greatly helping firefighters and hindering those searching for further remains. Temperatures were so high little remains of many victims beyond ash and a few teeth, and coroners warn many will never be found and a significant fraction of those discovered won’t be identified. Have not read an update of the missing persons count; here’s hoping it’s plummeting.

  128. 128.

    Jay

    @Aleta:

    There’s some of that. The AOC/Pelosi/Sunshine narrative wound up “perfectly” crafted, by a combo of ReThug input and MSM shitstirring to bring back the 2016 Primary Vendetta’s.

    Part of it too, is it’s easier to read the narrative than cynically research the narrative.

    Eg. Google the actress mentioned in the Avenatti accusations.

    Bare IMBD profile, then nothing.

    No wiki, no Twitter, no Linked In,

    The #8 google site referencing her is a foot fetish site, obsessing about her feet, in one scene, in a movie I’ve never heard of.

  129. 129.

    M. Bouffant

    @Aleta: These people. G.W. Bush looking into Putin’s eyes & seeing his soul, Trump & Kim, Trump saying Putin was “very forceful” in his denial of election high jinks, so of course he believed him, now this schmuck from Kansas gets suckered by Murder, Inc.

  130. 130.

    Another Scott

    @Aleta: Maybe not, but maybe.

    Al Jazeera (from October 16):

    […]

    As the crown prince cut an increasingly forlorn and isolated figure, Donald Trump, after making vague but threatening noises of punishing those responsible, finally bestirred himself, putting in a call to the prince’s father, King Salman. After their conversation, Trump said that Salman knew nothing about the Khashoggi affair, which may be a rare moment of truth on the president’s part as the king is often unaware of what his brash and arrogant favourite son is up to.

    Trump then threw out a lifeline. “It sounds to me like these could have been rogue killers. Who knows?” the president mused to reporters on October 15. Ah yes, the old rogue killers ruse. To which Mike Pompeo, aka Winston Wolfe the Pulp Fiction problem solver, will seek to apply the finishing touches.

    It will go something like this: rogue elements, 15 of them, within the Saudi security service, acting on their own initiative conducted an unauthorised interview which became a little too aggressive and, most unfortunately, resulted in the accidental death of Jamal Khashoggi.

    Utterly unbelievable. MBS has accrued to himself more power than any Saudi leader since the days of his grandfather Ibn Saud, the founder of the modern-day kingdom. Nothing of any significance happens in Saudi Arabia without his direct knowledge and approval. The plot to remove Khashoggi had been brewing for months and included the journalist being wooed by the Saudi ambassador in Washington (and MBS’s younger brother) Khalid bin Salman with promises of a welcome home. Significantly, Khalid left Washington, DC, last week and is not expected to return.

    So, the Trump lifeline may, in fact, prove to be a boat anchor that sinks MBS. The key is whether Mike Pompeo is able to secure a buy in to the rogue element narrative from Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan when he meets with Erdogan’s Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu in Ankara. Erdogan has played a cat and mouse game with the Saudis, using a Turkish media he has already tamed to ratchet up the pressure by, for example, releasing names, photos and CCTV videos of the hitmen while at the same time avoiding a direct condemnation of the Saudis and MBS.

    Erdogan has good reason to do so. The Turkish economy is struggling and he is looking for Saudi money to help him through a looming crisis. Squeeze too hard and the Saudis – who are already heavily invested in areas such as Turkish real estate – will retaliate. Squeeze gently and they should come through with significant investments. A delicate and nuanced game to play, but Erdogan has already shown himself to be a master at such games with the Russians and the Israelis.

    If Pompeo can solve the mess that MBS made by having the Turks buy into the “rogue elements” narrative, then perhaps it will somehow go away. The trouble is, the crown prince is already responsible for so many messes: the awful war in Yemen, the kidnapping and forced but temporary resignation of the Lebanese prime minister, the blockade of Qatar, the sweeping arrests of women’s rights activists after giving women the right to drive, the diplomatic attack on Canada for having the temerity to protest the arrests of those women, the stalled IPO of Saudi Aramco which was supposed to pour $100bn into Vision 2030.

    At least until the November midterm election, Trump does need to keep MBS’s head above water, if only to ensure that petrol prices at the pump do not go through the roof. But increasingly, he will look at the crown prince and think “loser”. Trump wants to keep selling arms to the Saudis, to keep the price of oil down and to keep them onside in the campaign against Iran. At this stage, he is not particularly bothered by who delivers, he just wants them delivered.

    In gangster world, that’s not a good position for MBS to be in. But this is not a gangster movie. This is real life and a good man and a brave journalist has been foully killed. We must remember Jamal Khashoggi and never forget who ultimately is responsible for his death.

    MBS apparently thinks that he can solve all his problems with money, or threats to withhold money. It will be interesting to see how this all turns out. Given our “leadership”, its hard to imagine it turning out well for truth and justice and all those ideals that we claim are so important…

    :-(

    I hope the new House investigates this incident and does so thoroughly.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  131. 131.

    Jay

    @Another Scott:

    Like I said already,

    Turkey’s put everything out world wide.

    There’s no putting the genie back in the bottle.

    This is not about a “Turkish deal”,

    It’s about taking Sawdi Arabia “down”.

  132. 132.

    Aleta

    @Jay: I hope he’s right. But does Cole think Saudi distribution of power will be affected by this?

    Our admin looks complcit, but they’re going for ‘US-Americans don’t need to care about Saudi affairs,’ which has already been our mindset for years.

    Even the report a while ago that MBS had disappeared his mother because she opposed him was softened by our media; and seemed to disappear into all the stories that explained MBS as a young reformer who might be OK with women driving. Seems like as long as he remains, the Trump admin won’t be blamed in the end for keeping the investment pipeline in place. Because money-making is keeping support for the administration in place, imo. I don’t know much about SA, just speculating, so I hope I’m wrong.

  133. 133.

    Jay

    @Aleta:

    More than half of the expatriates, investment funding, military and security support that keeps the Kingdom of Sawdi Arabia running, don’t come from the US.

    Canadian Doctors and medical staff are already repatriating themselves from the Kindom.

    I don’t think Hair Twitler can send 25,000 from the US to back fill them.

  135. 135.

    Aleta

    @Jay: I think Germany has halted arms sales to SA, but what about UK and France? It’s hard to imagine Trump will.

    Would Lockheed Martin do anything out of conscience? Even if they wanted to, could they cancel the production orders they’ve already taken from SA?

    What’s Canada doing about its arms sales contracts with the Saudis?

  136. 136.

    Jay

    @Aleta:

    France and the EU have embargoed arms sales and sanctioned 18 Sawdi’s.

    LockMart won’t do anything unless the the US does something.

  137. 137.

    Aleta

    @Aleta: I found this in the Globe and Mail from Oct. 22:

    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he’s willing to freeze exports of armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia, as the opposition presses the federal government to follow Germany’s lead in suspending military shipments to the kingdom over the alleged murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Saudi Arabia is the second-biggest arms market for both Canada and Germany, purchasing about half a billion dollars in military goods from each annually. Berlin froze all exports Sunday until the Khashoggi investigation is concluded, but Ottawa has not matched that action.

    On Monday, Mr. Trudeau noted his government has committed to strengthening arms export controls in Bill C-47. He then added, “We have frozen export permits before, when we had concerns about their potential misuse, and we will not hesitate to do so again.”

    He was referring to August, 2017, when his government stopped approving permits for arms exports to Saudi Arabia after it began an investigation into Riyadh’s deployment of Canadian-made armoured vehicles against Saudi citizens. Ottawa also temporarily suspended export permits issued for the armoured-vehicle maker whose machines were photographed and videotaped taking part in the crackdown.

    In an interview on CBC on Tuesday, Mr. Trudeau said it would be “very difficult” to outright scrap the $13-billion deal signed by Canada’s previous Conservative government and a Canadian unit of U.S. weapons maker General Dynamics Corp.

    Trudeau said the 2014 agreement for light armoured vehicles had been written in such a way that taxpayers would have to pay a large amount of money to end it. Trudeau added that he found it “incredibly frustrating” that the terms of the contract with the Saudis meant he could not discuss it in more detail.
    …
    Last year, Canada exported $497-million worth of military goods to Saudi Arabia, according to Global Affairs Canada, making the Saudi monarchy Canada’s largest defence customer after the United States.

    Mr. Trudeau rejected the suggestion the government is doing nothing. He said Ms. Freeland “has been having ongoing and active conversations with our allies about next steps and how to work collaboratively. We strongly demand, and expect, that Canadian exports are used in a way that fully respects human rights.”

  139. 139.

    sm*t cl*de

    @Another Scott:

    Salman knew nothing about the Khashoggi affair, which may be a rare moment of truth on the president’s part as the king is often unaware of what his brash and arrogant favourite son is up to.

    Salman has Alzheimers, so yes, he is often unaware of many things.

  141. 141.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): “Filing divorce” doesn’t begin to cover it culo – they’re asking for a restraining order on reality.

    Maybe what the common interest of humanity (once sanity is back in charge), is something like Heinlein’s “Coventry” (1940): a livable territory safely divorced ;^D from the rest of humanity where anyone who can’t (or won’t**) be reconciled to the notion that all sentient individuals are “created equal [&] endowed … with certain inalienable rights” is consigned. Doubt that could be anywhere on Earth (too easy to break out) or for that matter anywhere in cislunar space (you don’t give malcontents the high ground to lob rocks onto the home planet). Alternate timeline maybe? Gotta work on that…

    **NB Heinlein’s post-Second-Revolution USA offers individuals the choice of psychological “readjustment” which they may choose at any time before or for that matter after banishment (if they can make it back to the gate).

  143. 143.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Jay: Just FTR, “Radioactive Rose” is actually the original “Cracklin’ Rosie” – you understand the name when you turn on a working Geiger counter anywhere nearby – or for that matter, downwind…

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