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You are here: Home / Politics / Goddamned Traitors / John Kelly’s Excellent Adventure at the Hague

John Kelly’s Excellent Adventure at the Hague

by John Cole|  November 21, 201812:35 pm| 91 Comments

This post is in: Goddamned Traitors, Go Fuck Yourself

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These STASI motherfuckers need to go to jail:

The White House late Tuesday signed a memo allowing troops stationed at the border to engage in some law enforcement roles and use lethal force, if necessary — a move that legal experts have cautioned may run afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act.

The new “Cabinet order” was signed by White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, not President Donald Trump. It allows “Department of Defense military personnel” to “perform those military protective activities that the Secretary of Defense determines are reasonably necessary” to protect border agents, including “a show or use of force (including lethal force, where necessary), crowd control, temporary detention. and cursory search.”

There are approximately 5,900 active-duty troops and 2,100 National Guard forces deployed to the U.S.-Mexico border.

Some of those activities, including crowd control and detention, may run into potential conflict with the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act. If crossed, the erosion of the act’s limitations could represent a fundamental shift in the way the U.S. military is used, legal experts said.

WTF is a cabinet order for military force?

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Reader Interactions

91Comments

  1. 1.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 21, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    I hate to mention it again, but the first line of defense, the body tasked with oversight of such things, is Congress. But I haven’t seen anything from the majority party about the disasters of the last week or so, not even to assure us that everything is fine.

  2. 2.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 12:39 pm

    The new “Cabinet order” was signed by White House Chief of Staff John Kelly,

    Starscream.

    It allows “Department of Defense military personnel” to “perform those military protective activities that the Secretary of Defense determines are reasonably necessary” to protect border agents, including “a show or use of force (including lethal force, where necessary), crowd control, temporary detention. and cursory search.”

    Adam, what say you?

  3. 3.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 12:40 pm

    If crossed, the erosion of the act’s limitations could represent a fundamental shift in the way the U.S. military is used, legal experts said.

    Donald Trump shits on norms, laws and regulations and dares anyone to hold him accountable.

  4. 4.

    The Dangerman

    November 21, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    The new “Cabinet order” was signed by White House Chief of Staff John Kelly…

    Not worth the toilet paper it is printed on, but it probably got a rise out of Trump (as soon as he heard posse).

  5. 5.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 21, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    Unless its a fancy name for a directly ordered by the President memorandum of understanding between two or more Federal agencies delineating how they will work together, I have no idea. Whatever it is that Kelly signed, it is both illegal and well outside of his authority.

  6. 6.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    November 21, 2018 at 12:42 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Fascist fucks like Mark Meadows see nothing wrong with this and others that may have are retiring/have been booted from office. The rest are a crazy right-wing rump.

    This is clearly a violation of American law, which is why I think Kelly signed the order and not Trump

  7. 7.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 12:43 pm

    Defense officials said the language in the directive was carefully crafted to avoid running up against the bedrock legal limitations set in Posse Comitatus. The law was originally intended to protect the states from being controlled by federal troops. It has evolved into a singly defining, almost church versus state-type wall forbidding active-duty forces under the control of the president from conducting any types of crowd control or law enforcement domestically, essentially ensuring that the U.S. military is not used to control or defeat American citizens on U.S. soil.

    Kelly said in the signed directive that the additional authorities were necessary because “credible evidence and intelligence” have indicated that the thousands of migrants who have now made their way to the U.S. checkpoint near Tijuana, Mexico, “may prompt incidents of violence and disorder” that could threaten border officials.

    We all know exactly what Trump thinks about the church state divide. Now we know that Kelly thinks the same about Posse Comitatus.

  8. 8.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2018 at 12:43 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: Bob Corker and Rand Paul furrowed their brows, I am sure. Isn’t this unconstitutional six ways from Sunday? I need to up my contribution to the ACLU again.

    It is the ultimate gall for Kelly to sign the thing. That’s just a big fat fuck you to the nation and rule of law.

  9. 9.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    November 21, 2018 at 12:44 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Donald Trump shits on norms, laws and regulations and dares anyone to hold him accountable.

    House Dems: “Mission accepted”

  10. 10.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Whatever it is that Kelly signed, it is both illegal and well outside of his authority.

    Problem is, are the troops on the ground going to follow them anyway? I don’t see any of the officers at the border risking their careers to make a statement.

  11. 11.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    November 21, 2018 at 12:47 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    Did these same officials confirm that the fucking WH COS had the authority to order this?

  12. 12.

    Judge Crater

    November 21, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    Trump just should have had Ivanka sign the order.
    And Kelly is just a dumbass Jarhead. Sorry Marines.

  13. 13.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 21, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    @TenguPhule: Kourtney Kube just reported, based on a recent interview with Secretary Mattis, that these authorizations were already in place for several weeks. And that they are actually established Rules of Engagement for self defense.

    That makes little more sense than what was reported in Military Times.

  14. 14.

    David Hunt

    November 21, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    Like the prime movers of the Bush Admin, it looks like the important cogs of the Trump Era will need to be very careful about which countries they visit after the whole shebang is over.

  15. 15.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 12:50 pm

    @Judge Crater:

    And Kelly is just a dumbass Jarhead. Sorry Marines.

    They’re not sending their best people.

  16. 16.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 12:51 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That makes little more sense than what was reported in Military Times.

    So they’ve just been actively breaking the law for weeks instead of just now?

  17. 17.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 21, 2018 at 12:51 pm

    Kelly is freaked out about the brown hordes assaulting the border. Wasn’t it originally his idea to separate parents from children as a deterrent?

  18. 18.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 21, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Trump said they can shoot people throwing rocks. There’s your order.

    [I hope y’all know I am being sarcastic.]

  19. 19.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 21, 2018 at 12:53 pm

    @TenguPhule: Ask me no questions and I’ll tell you no lies.

    I cannot comment on this for reasons.

  20. 20.

    JGabriel

    November 21, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    Military Times:

    The new “Cabinet order” was signed by White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, not President Donald Trump.

    John Cole @ Top:

    WTF is a cabinet order for military force?

    Good question.

    A few other good questions for Kelly would be:

    When, as a General, you were commander of United States Southern Command, would you have accepted and/or obeyed a Cabinet Order from Jack Lew or Denis McDonough? If so, what would have been the constitutional authority for you to obey commands from them? If not, what gives you the authority to issue Cabinet Orders and expect them to be obeyed?

  21. 21.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Wasn’t it originally his idea to separate parents from children as a deterrent?

    Why yes, yes it was.

  22. 22.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 21, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    @TenguPhule: Until a Soldier actually shoots at someone/shoots someone, no one is actually breaking any laws. If/when a Soldier takes an action under these orders, then laws will be broken and we’ll see what does and does not happen.

  23. 23.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    November 21, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    Also, too, neither Kelly or any other American will go to the Hague thanks to the American Service-Members’ Protection Act. I think that when we get the trifecta this law should be repealed.

  24. 24.

    Peale

    November 21, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    I don’t think there’s any such thing as a cabinet order and I don’t think even if there was that the “Chief of Staff” in the White House would have the authority to issue one.

  25. 25.

    Gvg

    November 21, 2018 at 12:57 pm

    It seems to me to be so obviously not legal, that I almost take it to be Kelly making a soothing ego stroke to Trump that he knows won’t actually have any results. However, Kelly doesn’t have that good a reputation anymore.
    I thought I heard the troops were being brought back and undeployed?

  26. 26.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 21, 2018 at 12:57 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: Actually, that does count as an order, which is the real problem. What is even more interesting is that is the Israeli Rules of Engagement for dealing with Palestinian protestors. So he got that from talking to Bibi, Jared, or both.

  27. 27.

    Mike in NC

    November 21, 2018 at 12:58 pm

    This is simply creeping fascism.

  28. 28.

    Mnemosyne

    November 21, 2018 at 12:58 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Wasn’t it originally his idea to separate parents from children as a deterrent?

    Yep. Once Trump hired him, Kelly felt free to let his racist freak flag fly.

    I also wonder if they’re trying to get this established before the new Congress is sworn in and then claim it’s an ongoing operation so Congress can’t do any oversight of it. I have no clue at all if that’s how it works, though.

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Say no more. Say no more.

  30. 30.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:01 pm

    @Gvg:

    I thought I heard the troops were being brought back and undeployed?

    No. Politico reported the General on the ground there was hopeful that the troops there would be redeployed before the holidays.

    The actual deployment is still proceeding as planned and the Pentagon has not released any notification of them being pulled out.

  31. 31.

    A Ghost To Most

    November 21, 2018 at 1:01 pm

    I just jabbed a leather sewing needle deep into my index finger (ouch!), And it still doesn’t burn like the hate I feel for those fucking nazis.

  32. 32.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:03 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Actually, that does count as an order, which is the real problem.

    What’s one more crime against humanity, at this point?

  33. 33.

    Mandalay

    November 21, 2018 at 1:05 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    I don’t see any of the officers at the border risking their careers to make a statement.

    “Risking”? Not sure if serious.

  34. 34.

    gene108

    November 21, 2018 at 1:06 pm

    You know Trump just wants to gun down asylum seekers and anyone else crossing on the southern border.

    He’s building up to it. But he’s such a coward he won’t give the order to pull the trigger, he’ll depute that to Kelly and Mattis.

  35. 35.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:08 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If/when a Soldier takes an action under these orders, then laws will be broken and we’ll see what does and does not happen.

    Interesting times. sigh.

  36. 36.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:10 pm

    @Mandalay:

    “Risking”? Not sure if serious.

    Rebelling against Trump’s illegal order will kill the professional career of whichever military officer that does so. Its one of many problems that really need to be addressed in our armed forces.

  37. 37.

    Ruckus

    November 21, 2018 at 1:11 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    They have no idea how it works either.
    Their normal mode is to make up shit as they go along, this is just more shit. Laws are for the little people…..

  38. 38.

    Mnemosyne

    November 21, 2018 at 1:11 pm

    @gene108:

    I’m pretty sure that Mexico is not going to be thrilled at having US troops firing across their border to try and kill people who are on Mexican soil. That’s the kind of thing that starts a war.

  39. 39.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 21, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    @Mnemosyne: What they say and how it used to work do not necessarily line up.

  40. 40.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    November 21, 2018 at 1:12 pm

    @Ruckus:
    I imagine Kelly at least should, probably does, and just doesn’t care because he’s an authoritarian racist.

  41. 41.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 21, 2018 at 1:13 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Kent State

    Until a Soldier actually shoots at someone/shoots someone, no one is actually breaking any laws.

  42. 42.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 21, 2018 at 1:14 pm

    Kelly’s long audition to become the American Gen. Zia continues.

  43. 43.

    M31

    November 21, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    Grab ‘Em By the Posse
    Grab ‘Em By the Comey
    Grab ‘Em by the TA-TAAAAAAAAAS
    Uh-Huh, Uh-Huh

    —
    I never really wanted to live in a world where Pynchon-style song lyrics are real

  44. 44.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    November 21, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    Judging from what I’ve heard here and elsewhere, the US military is pretty tapped out. How our military in it’s current state would fare against the Mexican military in an unthinkable war, is something I don’t know and hope to never find out.

  45. 45.

    H.E.Wolf

    November 21, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    the first line of defense, the body tasked with oversight of such things, is Congress.

    Excellent point. I just called the 2 Democratic Congressmen from my state who are members of the Armed Services Committee, and was pleased to discover that they’re way ahead of me on this particular issue.

    Tick tock, Republicans. Tick tock.

  46. 46.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:16 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m pretty sure that Mexico is not going to be thrilled at having US troops firing across their border to try and kill people who are on Mexican soil. That’s the kind of thing that starts a war.

    I welcome our new Taco overlords and their trucks on every corner.

  47. 47.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    How our military in it’s current state would fare against the Mexican military in an unthinkable war, is something I don’t know and hope to never find out.

    If the national reserves are called out, we’d have enough to defeat the Mexican military in a normal WW II style battle.

    Mexico of course is aware of this and would under no circumstances attempt to fight us that way.

  48. 48.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 21, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: I’m aware.

  49. 49.

    smintheus

    November 21, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    WTF is a cabinet order for military force?

    Native Rhode Islander here, I can answer that. It’s an order for an ice cream/milk/syrup drink served in a tall glass, a confection that people beyond Rehoboth mistakenly term a “frappe” (whatever that is supposed to mean).

    ‘Frappe’ happens to be a non-technical French military term for a strike against the enemy. That must be the source of the confusion.

  50. 50.

    Mandalay

    November 21, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Rebelling against Trump’s illegal order will kill the professional career of whichever military officer that does so.

    Of course, in more ways than one. Even if such a “rebel” was legally safe for challenging an illegal order, I’d guess that their career would probably be over as a practical matter (or maybe not?).

    By analogy, I wonder whether there are any examples of courageous cops who soared through the ranks after challenging illegal police practices, or snitching on corrupt colleagues?

  51. 51.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    November 21, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    Mexico would probably try to use the cyber to help defeat us. That and maybe rely on some form international intervention.

    Would American civilians be able to hinder this war at all?

  52. 52.

    JGabriel

    November 21, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    @Peale:

    I don’t think there’s any such thing as a cabinet order and I don’t think even if there was that the “Chief of Staff” in the White House would have the authority to issue one.

    Exactly.

  53. 53.

    Mnemosyne

    November 21, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    Twitter just told me that Sec. Nielsen is at the California/Mexico border blathering about how very, very dangerous that “caravan” full of refugees is, so now my guess is that Kelly is trying to save the jobs of himself and his side piece by doing what Trump wants at the border.

  54. 54.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    @Mandalay:

    I’d guess that their career would probably be over as a practical matter

    Yep. At best they’d be stuck at their current rank and forced to retire. At worst….

  55. 55.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:26 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    so now my guess is that Kelly is trying to save the jobs of himself and his side piece by doing what Trump wants at the border.

    No, he seems to really believe in this shit.

  56. 56.

    Downpuppy

    November 21, 2018 at 1:27 pm

    @smintheus: No Reheboth – nay, not even a Poularde* En vessie can protect you from the Force de Frappe.

    *No turkey for me tomorrow!

  57. 57.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    Mexico would probably try to use the cyber to help defeat us. That and maybe rely on some form international intervention.

    Mexico’s best bets would be to A) launch attacks to take out or severely damage US military bases near the border and B) guerilla/urban warfare.

    US land borders are very accessible precisely because both neighbors have been at peace for so long.

  58. 58.

    smintheus

    November 21, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    @Mandalay: Military personnel are not just permitted to refuse to obey an illegal order. They are required to refuse to obey an illegal order.

  59. 59.

    Jay

    November 21, 2018 at 1:32 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    As the long held American Military policy goes, if an Officer or Soldier commits a War Crime by following an order,

    They will be prosecuted to the minimal extent of the laws, and their lives and careers will be ruined.

    Basically it’s a Hobbsian choice.

    Obey and you are fucked.

    Disobey and you are fucked.

    The smart choice is to immediately kill the person who gave you the order and claim self defence and sexual assault.

  60. 60.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 21, 2018 at 1:34 pm

    @TenguPhule: Why not both. He believes it and wants to save his blonde gf .

  61. 61.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:35 pm

    @Jay:

    Basically it’s a Hobbsian choice.

    Sophie’s choice, actually.

    Or Morton’s fork.

  62. 62.

    eric

    November 21, 2018 at 1:36 pm

    @Jay: or say he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, and maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t. We can never know. Argle bargle

  63. 63.

    tokyokie

    November 21, 2018 at 1:36 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: But at Kent State, it was National Guard troops under the auspices of the state of Ohio, not the standing military.

  64. 64.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:36 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Why not both.

    Pretty sure Kelly isn’t risking a potential death sentence at the Hague in order to keep getting laid. Of course, I could be wrong.

  65. 65.

    Mandalay

    November 21, 2018 at 1:38 pm

    @smintheus:

    Military personnel are not just permitted to refuse to obey an illegal order. They are required to refuse to obey an illegal order.

    Sure, but does every grunt in the military necessarily even know whether an order is illegal?

    As a related issue, there can also be orders which are legal but downright irresponsible and reckless. There was an example during the Iraq War when some soldiers refused to obey an order to make a very dangerous fuel run. The army tried to make the whole thing go away quietly, but:

    Upon returning to the United States, the company was largely lauded as “heroes” for facing potential courts-martial by refusing an order which they believed would lead their companions to be killed.

  66. 66.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 21, 2018 at 1:41 pm

    @TenguPhule: Love (lust) is blind, deaf and dumb. He wouldn’t be the first one either. It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  67. 67.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Touche.

  68. 68.

    Gelfling 545

    November 21, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    “WTF is a cabinet order for military force?”
    Unheard of is what it is.

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne

    November 21, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yep. Kelly wants to keep his job and his girlfriend’s job, so he does something he already wants to do that he knows will make Trump happy. Win/win, as far as Kelly is concerned.

  70. 70.

    Gelfling 545

    November 21, 2018 at 1:52 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m guessing the idea of Kelly signing it is that, when hell is raised over it, Trump can escape blame.

  71. 71.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 21, 2018 at 1:55 pm

    @Mandalay:

    Sure, but does every grunt in the military necessarily even know whether an order is illegal?

    Going by previous statements by the military folk here, their sergeants and every commander up the scale from there knows that these ‘shoot civilians’ orders are illegal, are specifically trained to refuse this kind of thing, and take it very seriously. That is only my understanding of what I have heard here, but they seemed emphatic at the time.

  72. 72.

    tobie

    November 21, 2018 at 2:04 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: As does Mattis’s frankly. I’m tired of him being given a pass. He’s knee deep in this crap.

  73. 73.

    Aardvark Cheeselog

    November 21, 2018 at 2:06 pm

    @smintheus:

    ‘Frappe’ happens to be a non-technical French military term for a strike against the enemy. That must be the source of the confusion.

    No, it’s a non-technical French military term for “strike that turns the enemy into milkshake.” Hence its misappropriation by a certain mass-market coffee drinks vendor.

  74. 74.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 21, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    @tobie: Not knee deep, neck deep. He was there when T signed the infamous Muslim ban within a week of taking office, providing legitimacy to the Russian plant.
    Did you know his mother was an immigrant. She came from the great white north as a six month old. *headdesk*

  75. 75.

    tobie

    November 21, 2018 at 2:31 pm

    Yeah, i heard him say his mother came from Canada, which he felt made him sensitive to the plight of immigrants even as he was sending troops to the border to tackle any poor mother and child trying to apply for asylum. If he had any principles, he would quit this unprincipled and lawless administration.

  76. 76.

    Uncle Cosmo

    November 21, 2018 at 2:46 pm

    @smintheus: There is also a thing called a “frappé” (i.e., “beaten”) that I ran across in Piraeus when first visiting Greece in ’97, which is arguably the only palatable concoction in the risible universe that prominently features instant “coffee”. (“Nescafe” in Yerp – a brand name rendered generic by frequent use, like “kleenex” or “formica”.) Recipe for one version may be found here.

  77. 77.

    sm*t cl*de

    November 21, 2018 at 2:48 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    No. Politico reported the General on the ground there was hopeful that the troops there would be redeployed before the holidays.
    The actual deployment is still proceeding as planned and the Pentagon has not released any notification of them being pulled out.

    SO basically you have US troops given illegal orders to act like an occupying army, and no-one is quite sure where they’re deployed any more, but they’re under the control of people who reckon that the election they just lost was not legitimate.

  78. 78.

    rikyrah

    November 21, 2018 at 2:50 pm

    These STASI motherfuckers need to go to jail:

    Tell, it Cole.

    TELL IT!!!

    Kelly ain’t shyt.

  79. 79.

    wjs

    November 21, 2018 at 2:51 pm

    General Russel Honore, 2005:

    “Hundreds of National Guard and active duty troops are carrying weapons in the city. But the way they carried those guns was a concern to the general.

    He ordered all he encountered to point their weapons down, said CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr, who was with the general. Honore repeatedly went up to military vehicles, National Guardsmen standing sentry and even to New Orleans police officers, telling them to please point their weapons down and reminding them that they were not in Iraq.”

  80. 80.

    randy khan

    November 21, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Is anybody else hearing echoes of Alexander Haig here?

  81. 81.

    Skepticat

    November 21, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    This is simply creeping fascism.

    Well, no, it’s galloping, screaming, blithering, ludicrous, rampant, sickening, unapologetic fascism.
    W.T.F?

  82. 82.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    @sm*t cl*de:

    SO basically you have US troops given illegal orders to act like an occupying army, and no-one is quite sure where they’re deployed any more, but they’re under the control of people who reckon that the election they just lost was not legitimate.

    Yep. Sleep tight.

  83. 83.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 21, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    We have some clarifying follow on reporting:

    #BREAKING Scoop at @Newsweek – President @realDonaldTrump signed the directive for the use of force and law enforcement roles for U.S. troops on the southern border. Kelly signed the directive to the Pentagon. You can read the documents here: https://t.co/OZJhJSVC1Y

    — James LaPorta (@JimLaPorta) November 21, 2018

  84. 84.

    rikyrah

    November 21, 2018 at 3:48 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    so now my guess is that Kelly is trying to save the jobs of himself and his side piece

    Everytime I read that, I crack up.

  85. 85.

    burnspbesq

    November 21, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    Cole:

    WTF is a cabinet order for military force?

    Pretty clearly unlawful.

  86. 86.

    TenguPhule

    November 21, 2018 at 3:58 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: So they’re both guilty AF.

  87. 87.

    burnspbesq

    November 21, 2018 at 4:02 pm

    Where the fuck is Baltazar Garzon when he could actually do the world some fucking good?

  88. 88.

    Mnemosyne

    November 21, 2018 at 4:03 pm

    @rikyrah:

    I know I have no actual evidence, but I genuinely believe that it’s true. The pieces just fit together too perfectly, IMO.

    I may be proven wrong at some point, but after watching his actions of the past two years, nobody can convince me that Kelly would draw the moral line at cheating on his wife given all of the other morally horrible shit he’s doing or approving.

  89. 89.

    Aleta

    November 21, 2018 at 4:18 pm

    They took children away, they lied to parents that they’d be reunited in a few hours, they shipped them across the country and didn’t record where or who their parents are. They provided parents with *nothing* to locate their children, or just gave a phone number they weren’t allowed to use.

    They allowed unqualified employees to medicate the children, again no record. They let contractors charge taxpayers for this; contractors who use adult prisoners to clean the facilities. They send some children to foster families without providing medical records or required information.

    They don’t care if the children die or how much they suffer. They threw a father into a cell for resisting the removal of his child, where he died.

    They’re indifferent and tell us no one is responsible except the imprisoned. This is who are running our country.

  90. 90.

    Mike in DC

    November 21, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    If troops shoot any migrants, I don’t think that story plays out the way wingnuts fantasize it would.

  91. 91.

    Bonnie

    November 21, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    I am getting shivers with visions of a revisit to Kent State.

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