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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Come on, man.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

You can’t love your country only when you win.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Let there be snark.

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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Friday Morning Open Thread: Value for Money

Friday Morning Open Thread: Value for Money

by Anne Laurie|  November 23, 20185:52 am| 75 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat, World's Best Healthcare (If You Can Afford It), All we want is life beyond the thunderdome

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BLACK FRIDAY: Best sale. Get ACA coverage for 2019 now through December 15. Pre-existing conditions don’t matter.

8 in 10 will be covered for < $75/month. Many can get great plans at no premium.

Trump cut assisters & advertising so spread the word.https://t.co/qMJsC3POpl https://t.co/Hi8ZFLkHlS

— Andy Slavitt (@ASlavitt) November 23, 2018


I know, I’m stepping on Dave’s turf, but I enjoyed the seasonal concept!

Speaking of seasonal themes, maybe we call this one “Mr. Potter bolts awake, screaming”:

Maxine Waters targets global banks with Financial Services shakeup https://t.co/yhHNCbnqRY

— Jonathan Swan (@jonathanvswan) November 18, 2018

Democratic Rep. Maxine Waters is proposing a new direction for the House Financial Services Committee, which she will almost certainly lead in the next Congress, Axios has learned.

Between the lines: The most notable proposed change: is lumping oversight of “International Financial Institutions” — which could mean anything from the World Bank to foreign banks — with the existing Terrorism and Illicit Finance subcommittee, while scrapping the Monetary Policy and Trade subcommittee.

As word leaks out about the proposal, it’s catching the attention of foreign banks. It’s a strong signal that Waters is not just talking about going after the likes of Deutsche Bank, sources familiar with the proposal tell Axios.

“[Waters has] not been shy about the direction and focus she would take if she got the gavel; she’s just now literally putting it in writing which got folks’ attention. Sort of like, “oh…she wasn’t kidding!”, the source who shared the proposal with Axios told us via text…

Other proposed changes to the House Financial Services Committee include dropping insurance from the “Housing and Insurance” subcommittee, and renaming it “Housing and Community Development.”

Waters also proposed to swap “Consumer Credit” with “Consumer Protection” for the current Financial Institutions and Consumer Credit subcommittee.

There’s also a new proposed subcommittee, solely focused on diversity and inclusion within the financial sector, as first reported by Politico Pro and Reuters…

Politico reports that some of Waters’ fellow Democrats (wittingly or not) are doing their job to terrify the banking miscreants by telling them that the Scary Black Lady is not only capable of, but eager to, perform a financial colonoscopy upon those who’ve grown fat and lazy under the ‘rule’ of the current Thief-in-Chief. And the mere touch of Rep. Waters’ hand can shatter a healthy young man’s public esteem — just ask Michael Tracey!

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Reader Interactions

75Comments

  1. 1.

    NotMax

    November 23, 2018 at 5:58 am

    FYI for Netflixers and alternate history buffs.

    Call it a pre-review; piqued the ol’ curiosity. Coming at the very end of this month.

    Knowing Netflix, though, stick with subtitles as their track record with dubbing into English is far from stellar.

  2. 2.

    Joey Maloney

    November 23, 2018 at 5:59 am

    I thought she shattered his skull, not his self-esteem. I mean, it was awful. It was like watching Ronda Rousey go a round with an asthmatic Cub Scout.

  3. 3.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 23, 2018 at 6:18 am

    I watched that, she practically amputated his hand on the spot.

  4. 4.

    sukabi

    November 23, 2018 at 6:35 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: ripped off his arm and beat him with the bloody stump.

  5. 5.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2018 at 6:38 am

    Good Morning, Everyone ???

  6. 6.

    sukabi

    November 23, 2018 at 6:47 am

    @rikyrah: good morning.?

  7. 7.

    Chris Johnson

    November 23, 2018 at 6:56 am

    This sounds awesome. Yay Democrats :D

  8. 8.

    SRW1

    November 23, 2018 at 7:07 am

    You go, Maxine!

  9. 9.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 23, 2018 at 7:10 am

    Two words on Maxine Waters’s plans: Money. Laundering.

  10. 10.

    wasabi gasp

    November 23, 2018 at 7:18 am

    Cuff the Invisible Hand to a cement block and drown it in the salty Maxine Waters.

  11. 11.

    Lapassionara

    November 23, 2018 at 7:21 am

    Good morning all. Is it time for the annual airing of the grievances yet?

  12. 12.

    geg6

    November 23, 2018 at 7:26 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I. Can’t. Wait.

  13. 13.

    Aziz, light!

    November 23, 2018 at 7:28 am

    Forget the ACA.

    Baud!Care! for all!

  14. 14.

    wasabi gasp

    November 23, 2018 at 7:31 am

    @geg6: Your punctuation begs to differ.

  15. 15.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    November 23, 2018 at 7:35 am

    @Aziz, light!: Baud!Care! covers your pets.

  16. 16.

    debit

    November 23, 2018 at 7:37 am

    @Lapassionara: I hope so. Because I got a lot of problems with you people.

  17. 17.

    bystander

    November 23, 2018 at 7:39 am

    But is Maxine Waters smart enough to ferret out financial misdeeds? For some reason, some people are saying she’s not.

  18. 18.

    cain

    November 23, 2018 at 7:51 am

    Someone came at the queen and missed!

  19. 19.

    satby

    November 23, 2018 at 7:54 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning ?!

    Had a cozy quiet day yesterday. Ended up making a small steak for dinner, I think the turkey will get cooked today or Sunday, depending on how thawed it is. Heard from my kids of course, and also chatted with my older exchange son from Mexico about planning a visit with him and his brother in January.
    Binged on two old Cary Grant movies in the evening on Filmstruck, which is going away on the 26th. At least I can look forward to a replacement in a few months.

  20. 20.

    tobie

    November 23, 2018 at 7:55 am

    Morning, Jackals. Started my day by reading the Washington Post which had one of its most brilliant editorials to date on how “America First” really means “America Last.” Here’s a snippet:

    [Previous Presidents] all accepted that, with less than 5 percent of global population but more than 20 percent of the global economy, the United States, more than any other nation, depends on and benefits from predictable rules. It needs a world where business executives can go forth and come home without fear of kidnapping, where ships can ply the oceans without armed escorts, where contracts are honored and disputes fairly adjudicated. It needs a world where journalists can report and inform Americans on the true conditions on the ground.

    The entire global system from trade to the exchange of ideas will run amok if Trump’s how-to-make-a-quick-buck approach settles in. I’m going to try to find a way to allude to some of this argument when talking with my Trump-lovin’ neighbors.

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 23, 2018 at 7:59 am

    @bystander: Probably the same people saying “The American people will understand thoughtful, well-grounded investigations,” said Rep. Jim Himes, a Connecticut Democrat. “But they will bridle at investigations that seem overtly political.”

    Translation: “It’s OK to investigate so long as nothing is uncovered. As soon as it appears she might upset our financial betters, we will have to put a muzzle on her,”

  22. 22.

    tobie

    November 23, 2018 at 8:12 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Really sorry to hear that from Himes. Sounds like he’s bargaining with himself, so as not to upset the GOP. Every Dem should know by now that’s a recipe for failure.

  23. 23.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 23, 2018 at 8:18 am

    I’m reading account of the call Trump made to the troops yesterday. Holy cow. I want to be shocked and outraged, but I think I’m mostly frightened. This guy is in charge and he’s accelerating the pace of the damage he’s doing. The new congress is over a month away and Mueller is holding fire. Jeebus.

  24. 24.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 23, 2018 at 8:31 am

    @tobie:

    so as not to upset the GOP.

    I see it more as him being afraid of upsetting the WHITE people who vote for the GOP, but that may be a distinction without a difference.

    ETA: a qualifier

  25. 25.

    Kristine

    November 23, 2018 at 8:33 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I can’t see how investigating bankers hurts Dems. Jailing a few would, imo, go a long way toward nailing wins in 2020.

  26. 26.

    tobie

    November 23, 2018 at 8:35 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: No, you’re right. I was using shorthand. I guess I meant that the GOP will scream about political witch hunts no matter what the Dems in committee do, so there’s no point limiting the scope of an investigation. Republicans will cry foul regardless.

  27. 27.

    zhena gogolia

    November 23, 2018 at 8:37 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    He represents Fairfield, Westport, and Stamford. Nuff said.

    Bridgeport too, but that doesn’t count.

  28. 28.

    Ben Cisco

    November 23, 2018 at 8:43 am

    I love the fact that the usual suspects are whining. May as well grab some cheese fellas, ’cause AIN’T NOBODY PLAYING WITH YOU!

  29. 29.

    debbie

    November 23, 2018 at 8:45 am

    I only read the excerpt above, but I hope Maxine will include a plan to put the teeth back into the CFPB.

  30. 30.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 23, 2018 at 8:46 am

    @Kristine: I figure it’s the Chuck Schumer wing of the party that objects to any actual digging.

  31. 31.

    Immanentize

    November 23, 2018 at 8:47 am

    Happy FAT! (Friday After Thanksgiving). Today’s the day folks go to MIT with there contraptions to link then together to create a huge Rube Goldberg machine.

  32. 32.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 23, 2018 at 8:48 am

    @zhena gogolia: @OzarkHillbilly: You and I think alike.

  33. 33.

    debbie

    November 23, 2018 at 8:50 am

    @tobie:

    Futures are down 135 at the moment. I think today’s going to be a bumpy ride.

  34. 34.

    debbie

    November 23, 2018 at 8:51 am

    @tobie:

    I’m going to try to find a way to allude to some of this argument when talking with my Trump-lovin’ neighbors.

    Let me know if you do find a way. I’d like to come up with something to counter my Trumpster brothers.

  35. 35.

    satby

    November 23, 2018 at 9:00 am

    @debbie: it’s been volatile for weeks. I have started to think about taking what’s left of the IRA from my mom and just sticking it under my mattress. And it’s in “conservative” income shares. It’s my savings for a catastrophe, but the catastrophe is sitting in the White House.

  36. 36.

    tobie

    November 23, 2018 at 9:04 am

    @debbie: Will do. Did you see your brothers for Thanksgiving yesterday? I was at a Thanksgiving party where no one talked politics but it was still a relief to know there wasn’t a Trumper amongst us. I think the tension’s the worst when you know you’re muzzling yourself.

  37. 37.

    Gelfling 545

    November 23, 2018 at 9:12 am

    @Lapassionara: A young man ( well, young compared to me) who won a NY State Assembly post this election is hosting a Festivus Celebration and Fundraiser complete with airing of grievances on December 6. Should be a hoot. He’s an interesting guy but I remember him best as running about in the street playing football with my nephews, now many years ago.
    https://allevents.in/events/pat-burke-festivus-fundraiser/20002411058023

  38. 38.

    debbie

    November 23, 2018 at 9:15 am

    @tobie:

    I separated myself from them right after the election, but two of them showed up at my door at about 11pm Wednesday, I guess thinking they could charm their way back into my good graces (such as they are). I stopped that cold (no yelling), saying that their support of Trump was unforgivable. I think they get it this time.

  39. 39.

    Bruce K

    November 23, 2018 at 9:15 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Mueller can’t afford to miss any shot he takes, and I suspect he knows it. If his target is the governing “political party” of the United States of America (scare quotes intentional), then his case has got to be goddamned perfect.

  40. 40.

    Gelfling 545

    November 23, 2018 at 9:15 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Like they did over the Clinton investigations, all gazillion of them? Ha! It is to laugh.

  41. 41.

    Gelfling 545

    November 23, 2018 at 9:17 am

    @Kristine: Exactly. Nobody likes bankers.

  42. 42.

    Chief Oshkosh

    November 23, 2018 at 9:19 am

    @Kristine: @Kristine:

    I can’t see how investigating bankers hurts Dems. Jailing a few would, imo, go a long way toward nailing wins in 2020.

    Investigating/trying/jailing bankers won’t hurt Democratic Congressmembers in California. It might dim prospects for re-election of their cohorts in Connecticut, New York and New Jersey.

    I’m not saying it’s not the right thing to do, just saying that there can be a divergence in…motivations.

  43. 43.

    Luthe

    November 23, 2018 at 9:22 am

    @satby: My pittance of an IRA is principally invested in two “socially progressive” mutual funds. I also have a tiny amount of TJ Maxx stock I bought on a whim because I read they were paying their workforce in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria even though their stores wouldn’t open again for months.

    The TJ Maxx stock is the only one I haven’t taken losses on.

  44. 44.

    Chief Oshkosh

    November 23, 2018 at 9:27 am

    @debbie:

    …their support of Trump was unforgivable.

    I’ve been wondering about this. Has anyone here experienced a friend, family member, or acquaintance who was a Trump voter but openly regrets it? I have not. But if it ever happens, I’ve been wondering, what are useful penances to extract before they are “forgiven?” I’ve imagined saying “Great. You regret helping put into power the worst person to ever hold the presidency. What are you going to do about it?” As in, it’s not good enough to regret the dumbest thing you’ve ever done (politically), you must take action to mitigate the horrific outcomes.

    Thoughts?

  45. 45.

    WereBear

    November 23, 2018 at 9:31 am

    @tobie: The entire global system from trade to the exchange of ideas will run amok if Trump’s how-to-make-a-quick-buck approach settles in.

    Especially since Trump is the symptom, not the disease.

    The very concept of “business” is under severe attack, as companies are looted, employees are treated like cogs, and customers are blatantly ripped off. A common pattern is to set up a shell corporation, contract to create a run of junk products, sell them all, bail into bankruptcy, and run off with the money. Over and over again.

    For decades Republicans have been doing in secret what Trump does out loud. They don’t get to pin it all on him. And they won’t rein him in: he is their business model.

  46. 46.

    la caterina

    November 23, 2018 at 9:32 am

    @Chief Oshkosh: My FIL voted for Trump but came to regret it. For the first time in his life, he voted straight Dem this year. I suppose it’s a start.

  47. 47.

    tobie

    November 23, 2018 at 9:36 am

    @debbie: You’re brave. And principled.
    @Chief Oshkosh: I haven’t met a Trumper who regrets his or her vote yet, but I expect that will happen for some (alas, not all) when a recession sets in. But I do know someone who regretted his vote for George W. Bush. It’s my cousin. He’s kept his registration as Republican but he’s now an outspoken supporter of unions, healthcare for all, criminal justice reform, and multilateral agreements to ensure world order. Those are his four big issues. I’ve always liked my cousin and like him even more now that he’s abandoned the GOP in all but voter registration.

  48. 48.

    grubert

    November 23, 2018 at 9:39 am

    When I first heard “The Young Turks” some years ago, I felt some cheer at what seemed an energetic progressive message.

    But after listening to a few shows, I wonder if they’re a stalking horse. Their analysis is about at the “Democrats are the slavery party because Lincoln, checkmate!” level.

  49. 49.

    tobie

    November 23, 2018 at 9:40 am

    @WereBear:Yeah, it’s funny how we stopped talking about vulture capitalism after Romney’s defeat. But the idea of taking over a company, raising its stock price, looting its pension fund, and having it declare bankruptcy seems to be the model for the one percent with some exceptions, of course, but they just prove the rule.

  50. 50.

    grubert

    November 23, 2018 at 9:44 am

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    Has anyone here experienced a friend, family member, or acquaintance who was a Trump voter but openly regrets it? I have not.

    My extended-family strategy has been “sssh… don’t rub it in” in hopes of not activating their tribal defense mechanisms.

  51. 51.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 23, 2018 at 9:48 am

    Bankster scum should be fearing for their very lives.

    Good.

  52. 52.

    gene108

    November 23, 2018 at 9:49 am

    @tobie:

    Stupid thing about Trump and his supporters is that we put those rules in place for our benefit. These aren’t rules shoved down our throat. These are rules we crafted.

  53. 53.

    tobie

    November 23, 2018 at 9:54 am

    @gene108: That’s the shocker. We’re trashing rules we created for our own benefit, and these folks are too stupid to know that.

  54. 54.

    gene108

    November 23, 2018 at 10:01 am

    @tobie:

    Parts of CT, and NJ, as well as NYC have banking/finance as a big chunk of their economies.

    It would be irresponsible for a Congressman from one of those districts to not try to go to bat for one of their largest employers in their district.

    It’s like Sen. Warren pushing to repeal the medical device tax from the ACA, because medical device makers are big business in MA.

    I think this sort of looking out for your district and/or state is healthy for out politics. It is the sort of horse trading that Congress was set up for, rather than trying to nationalize issues like abortion or gay marriage.

    That is all this is about, in my opinion.

  55. 55.

    gene108

    November 23, 2018 at 10:04 am

    @tobie:

    Yup.

    They have a very warped sense of how to get ahead in the world. They view cooperation as weakness.

  56. 56.

    zhena gogolia

    November 23, 2018 at 10:10 am

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    I don’t think I know anyone who voted for Trump, but the two who just “couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Hillary” have been utterly silent since the election. You would never know politics even existed, talking to them. I try to forgive them since in our state it didn’t make any difference, but it’s hard.

  57. 57.

    danielx

    November 23, 2018 at 10:16 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “The American people will understand thoughtful, well-grounded investigations,” said Rep. Jim Himes, a Connecticut Democrat. “But they will bridle at investigations that seem overtly political.”

    If he doesn’t think the American people would enjoy seeing a bunch of plutocrats sweating under the lights, he doesn’t know shit about the American people.

  58. 58.

    Eolirin

    November 23, 2018 at 10:22 am

    @gene108: Yeah, this exactly.

    But at the same time, I think it’s really important that we stop covering for blatant illegality too, even if it means there’s a hit to local economies. Schumer can remain pro financial services without turning a blind eye to fraud and money laundering, and we need to pressure him and the rest of the dems to do so. It’s not sustainable for us to continue to have two widely divergent sets of rules depending on how wealthy you are, or how central you are to a local economy.

  59. 59.

    Eolirin

    November 23, 2018 at 10:24 am

    @danielx: By “American people” he means his donors and a sizeable chunk of his constituents.

  60. 60.

    debbie

    November 23, 2018 at 10:45 am

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    Knowing my brothers as I do, they supported Trump for the tax cut. I know at some level they regret some part of what’s come out of the election (ie, being Jewish, they can’t be happy about the rise in anti-semitism), but they would never acknowledge that. Instead, I know they would bring up Hillary again, and I’d be forced to rip their faces off in anger.

  61. 61.

    debbie

    November 23, 2018 at 10:51 am

    @gene108:

    Voting for sensible regulations should not be seen as being anti-financial. Blocking reform in fact gives them the space they need to rape the country all over again. I think how the message is framed is what will determine the financial industry’s reaction.

  62. 62.

    Ben Cisco

    November 23, 2018 at 10:56 am

    @WereBear:

    Especially since Trump is the symptom, not the disease…

    For decades Republicans have been doing in secret what Trump does out loud. They don’t get to pin it all on him. And they won’t rein him in: he is their business model.

    ALL OF THIS.

    This is what they are scared of. Reverse Raccoon has exposed the con, and their failure to act has condemned them too, along with a number of our fellow citizens.

  63. 63.

    prostratedragon

    November 23, 2018 at 10:56 am

    AL, simply love the name of your new seasonal theme.

  64. 64.

    prostratedragon

    November 23, 2018 at 10:59 am

    @bystander: These committees have this thing called “staff.”

  65. 65.

    Kraux Pas

    November 23, 2018 at 10:59 am

    @danielx:

    If he doesn’t think the American people would enjoy seeing a bunch of plutocrats sweating under the lights, he doesn’t know shit about the American people.

    Yeah? Wait until the Faux Noise machine is churned up to make these people martyrs for the vast right wing conspiracy.

    “They’re attacking these good, red-blooded, American job creators who were making money for our economy.”

    They can polarize this like they can anything else. Fortunately, I trust our elected Ds to not pursue unproductive lines of inquiry on these investigations, so they can demonstrate to the persuadables that they handle their oversight responsibilities more ethically and precisely than the Republicans.

  66. 66.

    Kraux Pas

    November 23, 2018 at 11:04 am

    @debbie:

    Voting for sensible regulations should not be seen as being anti-financial.

    That’s the thing. They just speak vaguely about regulations to paint a picture of annoying bureaucratic red tape that interferes with worthy projects. Undoubtedly, a lot of people have run up against regulations they don’t see the purpose of. Some may actually be outdated or not be the best way to handle the problem they seek to address.

    A lot of work has be done, pretty much at a cultural level, to help people understand that this regulation has to do with preventing people from stealing from you, from polluting your property, and endangering your life.

  67. 67.

    Ben Cisco

    November 23, 2018 at 11:05 am

    @debbie:

    Voting for sensible regulations should not be seen as being anti-financial. Blocking reform in fact gives them the space they need to rape the country all over again.

    Absolutely.

    I think how the message is framed is what will determine the financial industry’s reaction.

    Absolutely not. They will scream bloody murder no matter what.

  68. 68.

    debbie

    November 23, 2018 at 11:18 am

    @Ben Cisco:

    Well, it might turn many of their supporters.

  69. 69.

    Yutsano

    November 23, 2018 at 11:48 am

    @debbie:

    I know at some level they regret some part of what’s come out of the election (ie, being Jewish, they can’t be happy about the rise in anti-semitism)

    So is Stephen Miller. So are Jarvanka. Every one of them thinks if they go kapo they’ll be safe. The fact is they’ll just go last.

  70. 70.

    Ben Cisco

    November 23, 2018 at 11:56 am

    @debbie: True. Nothing inherently wrong with framing an argument properly. I’m just saying that trying to appease the FIRE sector is a fool’s errand.

  71. 71.

    James E Powell

    November 23, 2018 at 12:14 pm

    @Ben Cisco:

    Absolutely not. They will scream bloody murder no matter what.

    Every corporate sector does this. Recall how the auto industry fought seatbelts, airbags, and every safety measure ever proposed. They are all like the NRA in that they argue that any regulation is the first step on the slippery slope to total socialist government control of our precious bodily fluids.

  72. 72.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 23, 2018 at 12:21 pm

    @Chief Oshkosh: The family members I’m with now are all a bunch of Democrats and so pissed off at Trump, I haven’t even been bringing up politics, it just happens. Their Republican relatives, they mostly haven’t been talking to lately.

  73. 73.

    debbie

    November 23, 2018 at 12:25 pm

    @Ben Cisco:

    Ah, fool’s errand. I’ve run so many!

  74. 74.

    Racer X

    November 23, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    In a poll just last year from AFR/CRL:
    Should Wall Street financial companies be held accountable with tougher rules and enforcement for the practices that caused the financial crisis in 2008, or have their practices changed enough that they don’t need further regulation?
    Should be held accountable………………………………………… 67
    Don’t need further regulation……………………………………….. 19
    (Neither) …………………………………………………………………….. 4
    (Don’t know) ………………………………………………………………..11

    Oh, did I mention this is just Republicans, independents, and Democratic Party members agree even more…I think Rep. Waters will find broad public even among Trump’s base…

  75. 75.

    oldgold

    November 25, 2018 at 10:36 am

    new York post

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