Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

When we show up, we win.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

This fight is for everything.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

He really is that stupid.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2018 / Open Thread: “But the Racists Are So Polite!“

Open Thread: “But the Racists Are So Polite!“

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If only the Democrats could learn not to be so rude and divisive, laments the NYTimes…

Reader Interactions

169Comments

  3. 3.

    Damien

    I feel like Democrats should just go ahead and lean into this and just go for taxing rich people until they’re forced to drive for Uber, implementing steel-clad voting laws while also suppressing the middle-class white women vote, seizing all golf courses and NASCAR tracks for use as solar energy fields, and banning raisins in potato salad.

    Let’s just go all in on alienating white people

  5. 5.

    patrick II

    Yesterday I went to a party for a seven year old boy. There is nothing more joyous than a seven year old ripping open gift packages and yelling “Just what I wanted!”
    The party was held it a house in Whiting, Indiana, an area where immigrants from all over the world came to work in the industries lining the South shore of Lake Michigan. There were about ten adults attending the party and before the ceremonial candle blowing we all sang Happy Birthday. First in English, started off by the boy’s mother, an immigrant who’s father was killed by a bombing in Belfast, but then another lady sang in Czech, then someone said what about Polish? So they sang again in Polish. One lady, a teacher and an immigrant from Mexico, then sang a Spanish version of Happy Birthday, and finally my wife chipped in singing the song in Mandarin.
    We all laughed. It is a type of joy Ms. Hyde-Smith will never know.

  7. 7.

    Kraux Pas

    By definition, only the perverse, swarthy hordes of Demonrat voters can be impolite or uncivil. Good God-fearing Republicans are simply defending themselves against the establishment.

  10. 10.

    cain

    @patrick II:

    We all laughed. It is a type of joy Ms. Hyde-Smith will never know.

    Well you know, she has own joys.. being an asshole, and enjoying the joy of white supremacy.

  11. 11.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Kraux Pas:
    Your comment reminded me of that Pochahontas song “Savages”. I bet this plays through RWNJ heads all day long:

    “Demonrats, Demonrats; barely even human!”

  12. 12.

    Kraux Pas

    @cain:

    Well you know, she has own joys.. being an asshole, and enjoying the joy of white supremacy.

    What greater joy can there be than simply knowing you are inherently superior because of your heritage?

  13. 13.

    Kraux Pas

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    Your comment reminded me of that Pochahontas song “Savages”. I bet this plays through RWNJ heads all day long:

    “Demonrats, Demonrats; barely even human!”

    On “Judge” Jeanne Pirro’s show she performs this song every night.

  14. 14.

    cmorenc

    ANY white person who grew up in the South and went to school in the 1960s, the era when the post-Brown transformation to integrated schools was an ongoing contemporary thing – can be forgiven for the period in their youth when their perspective was too much (then) like Cynthia Hyde-Smith’s. Harboring racist attitudes toward blacks seemed back then as natural as swimming in water did to fish.

    WHAT CANNOT BE FORGIVEN are Southerners who didn’t at some point grow out of those early attitudes – and undergo a profound metamorphosis that accepted blacks as equal human beings, etc. The problem with Cynthia Hyde-Smith isn’t that she went to (actually, her parents sent her to) an all-white academy. The problem is that at her core, she never grew past that racial/world view.

  16. 16.

    Omnes Omnibus

    PSA: My name is Omnes Omnibus and I have an alcohol problem. I discover over the past few weeks that I developed true physical need for alcohol, so as of yesterday I have stopped drinking. Last night was kind of ugly. Today is better so far

  17. 17.

    Mike in NC

    That picture of smirking Fat Bastard makes it look like he wants to grab Cindy by the you-know-what.

  19. 19.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    I am glad that somebody slapped Rob Manfred, the commissioner of Major League Baseball up the head about giving Ms.Imperial Wizard money for her campaign was just bad optics, for a league that celebrates Jackie Robinson and Roberto Clemente. Jesus if Roger Goodell or Adam Silver of the NBA pulled that stunt they would be ran out.

  21. 21.

    raven

    @Omnes Omnibus: Drive on brother. It will be strange when you lived a “drink if you win, drink if you lose and drink if you get rained out” life it takes some time to adjust! Take a look at “A Drinking Life: A Memoir, by Pete Hamill “. No whiny stuff, just a hard look at where he came from and where he went.

    Rugged prose and a rare attention to telling detail have long distinguished Pete Hamill’s unique brand of journalism and his universally well received fiction. Twenty years after his last drink, he examines the years he spent as a full-time member of the drinking culture. The result is A Drinking Life, a stirring and exhilarating memoir float is his most personal writing to date.

  22. 22.

    Platonailedit

    US Border Patrol has just launched tear gas into Mexico. Breeze carrying it hundreds of yards. Parents running away with choking toddlers.

    #migrantcaravan— Chris Sherman (@chrisshermanAP) November 25, 2018

    The land of the free and the home of the brave indeed.

  26. 26.

    raven

    It was later that he discovered that drink had the power to destroy those very bonds and corrode any writer’s most valuable tools: clarity, consciousness, memory. It was almost too late when he left drinking behind forever. Neither sentimental nor self-righteous, this is a seasoned writer’s vivid portrait of the first four decades of his life and the slow, steady way that alcohol became an essential part of that life. Along the way, he summons the mood of a time and a place gone forever, with the bittersweet fondness of a lifetime New Yorker. It is his best work yet.

  28. 28.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Thanks folks,. My family knows what is going on and is going to be wonderfully helpful. I will come to the people here if I need advice from people who have lived it.

  30. 30.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Today is better so far

    May every day be a step in the right direction…and if there’s a misstep…just redirect again. You’re one of those vaunted “valued BJ commentators” in my book and I wish you all the best.

  33. 33.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Congrats.
    It will get better and easier. But it can take some time.
    I never had that physical thing so I can only speak to the mental desire to escape into that good time feeling. Once I got away from that I found out that it really wasn’t all that good a feeling and quitting was best for me. I hope you find that.
    If you need a virtual shoulder, it’s here.

  34. 34.

    PhoenixRising

    @Omnes Omnibus: Congrats and don’t try to white knuckle through symptoms of detox; they can make you dead. If you don’t know what those are, find out now!

    Detox is a biological process that may require medical management, sobriety is a state of being there are many roads to achieving, don’t mix them up please. Looking forward to your comments for many years in the future!

  40. 40.

    raven

    @Ruckus: Same here, quit in one day after 30 years. I think the ending of my marriage was so intense that stopping was a distant second and, once I got away from it, I kept thinking “what the fuck was that all about”?

  41. 41.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    @Damien: Amen. Let’s go back to the good old days when Uncle Sam took 90% or so of the upper crust’s upper income. The government needs money, they need to go where the money is, and that is not in the paychecks of the bottom 98%. Speaking as a white shod woman, it wouldn’t alienate all white people either. Many of us would applaud.

  55. 55.

    JPL

    I’m watching an old movie “Ordinary People” , When it first was screened there were many discussions about the mother’s reaction, and now as I’m watching it again, why were there no discussions about the dad.

  57. 57.

    Ruckus

    @raven:

    I kept thinking “what the fuck was that all about”?

    It was about escape. It’s always about escape.
    It never works. Oh you escape, but it’s like going over the wall into a max security prison. A lot harder to get out than it was to get in. And, as we are adjustable beings, we adjust to the prison we make for ourselves. But one day you look around and see that you really are a prisoner, but one who can get out. That getting out takes effort and sacrifice, like most good things. It’s easy to hide, it’s harder to stand and not give in. So we hide for years. Till we are hiding in plain sight, invisible to only ourselves.

  59. 59.

    debbie

    @JPL:

    Because the mother’s behavior was so shocking. I remember seeing it with my mother. We had a very difficult time talking about the movie afterwards.

  65. 65.

    tobie

    @Omnes Omnibus: Good luck to you. I used to suffer from terrible anxiety and one counselor told me it’s best not to think too far ahead. Just choose a time window you can deal with–for example, 45 minutes or an hour and say to yourself, okay, for this span of time I’m just going to think about anything but the task at hand. I imagine a similar strategy would work in trying to get a handle on certain impulses. Hang in there.

  68. 68.

    Haroldo

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Well done – wise and courageous. I’ve found recovery to be a social thing – it’s great that you intuitively know that (I for so long viewed it as an individual cross to bear).

    P.S. And this is not as flip as it may seem: it might do to stay away from our Packers tonight.

  69. 69.

    debbie

    @JPL:

    I agree. I think he was afraid to do anything because he felt the tension in his wife and his son. He didn’t want to upset anyone, but that only made it all worse.

  70. 70.

    MomSense

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Good for you! I’m glad to hear today was a little better than yesterday. Hope your days keep getting better. Let us know how we can support and encourage you.

  71. 71.

    debbie

    @JPL:

    Actually, I think she was monstrous (which upset my mother for some reason). The other son was always her favorite, and TImothy Hutton knew that. Every time she looked at him, he thought she was thinking why he hadn’t died instead.

  72. 72.

    Starfish

    The stupid Mississippi voters who are more worried about his progressivism than his racism got on my every nerve today. Some state senator was saying that she had worked with Espy and that he was too liberal when his ads are about how he voted for the Republican governor and is eager to work across the aisle for the people of Mississippi. This is how I replied.

    A lot of people I know are going to vote for Espy, but I doubt that it will be enough.

  73. 73.

    WereBear

    @debbie: That was my take. I found the father to be far more compassionate. THatbsoeech he made where he told her whatnshies he wore didn’t matter made me cry.

    That was a turning point. Like he realized he couldn’t tiptoe around her anymore.

  76. 76.

    Amir Khalid

    @JPL:
    I think the script was structured with the dad, played by Donald Sutherland, as the good guy, while the mom, played by Mary Tyler Moore, was the one making the son suicidal. Upon reflection, I have to agree that placing all the blame on one parent on a siruation like that is not entirely realistic.

  79. 79.

    JMG

    Hyde-Smith will win by double-digits. Mississippi should still be under direct military rule of Federal troops.

  80. 80.

    Anne Laurie

    @Amir Khalid:

    Isn’t that an act of war? Tear gas may be non-lethal, most of the time, but it’s still a weapon.

    As I understand it, using tear gas on unarmed civilians of another country certainly opens the users up to prosecution. But as some mid-level apparatchiki are probably assuring each other, How many divisions does the Hague have?

  81. 81.

    JPL

    @debbie: It’s so odd watching it close to thirty years later with tears in my eyes at points in the movie that I didn’t notice before. Beth and Conrad both buried their feelings.
    I do miss the olden days where you went to a movie and then out for coffee to dissect the true meaning of what you saw. I’m old enough to remember when a group of us went to see Cries and Whispers and decided that going for coffee was not going to happen, cuz we had no idea what the red screen meant.

  82. 82.

    Ruckus

    @Haroldo:
    Well, there certainly is an individual side to recovery, each one of us has to do our own work, but there is a great deal of society that will help and support your recovery, guide you in one or more of the many different ways it takes to get there and help you when you need that help. So I think it is both, an individual effort, but you don’t have to do it alone, society will support you.

  85. 85.

    JPL

    @Amir Khalid: Today’s dads are more emotionally connected because many companies give family leave to both sexes.
    It’s a good movie to watch decades later especially as a female trying to hold everything together.

  86. 86.

    NotMax

    @JPL

    Vividly remember what happened while we were waiting outside on line for the next showing (no multi-screen places then), watching the audience come out from the just ended showing. Usually they’re talking about the movie, or bantering – you get the idea. This was the first and only time I ever saw the entire audience exit in total, absolute, stony faced silence.

  87. 87.

    SFAW

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    As with the rest of the jackals, here for you, will try to support you as much as I can.

    Glad to hear you’ve taken the first steps, keep up the good work!

  88. 88.

    hervevillechaislounge

    @JPL:

    I’ll never forget my abject shock when Mary Tyler More snatches Timothy Hutton’s breakfast and scrapes it into the trash. Who knew Laura Petrie could be such a frosty CU-next Tuesday?

    Congratulations, Mr. Omnes, and please see a doctor if your physical symptoms persist; detox can be deadly!

  89. 89.

    debbie

    @JPL:

    I really ought to watch it again, but just thinking of it is making my throat kind of lumpy.

    (You should have heard our discussion after 2001. Very heated!)

  94. 94.

    aretino

    It’s funny that Mississippi Republicans chose Hyde-Smith so that they wouldn’t be dragged down by a wild-eyed Neo-Confederate like Chris McDaniel.

  95. 95.

    Haroldo

    @Ruckus:

    “Well, there certainly is an individual side to recovery, each one of us has to do our own work, but there is a great deal of society that will help and support your recovery, guide you in one or more of the many different ways it takes to get there and help you when you need that help. So I think it is both, an individual effort, but you don’t have to do it alone, society will support you.”

    I am well, well aware of that now. A number of years ago, however….it’s no accident that alcoholism thrives in social and psychological isolation.

  101. 101.

    Ruckus

    @Haroldo:
    Very, very true.
    Like I said it’s a prison that you put yourself into. You can get out but it takes more effort than it took to get into in the first place and it feels like you are all alone. Except for your fellow travelers. That feeling is what keeps a lot of people in, they have a “support team.” Of course that support is a millimeter wide and a millimeter deep because none of that team wants to admit that they want to leave and almost none of them have any idea how to get out anyway. That first step feels like jumping off a cliff that is straight down and 5 miles high. Till you take it and find out it isn’t and that it’s very much worth it and that each step beyond is easier.
    BTW congrats on finding your way.

  102. 102.

    Platonailedit

    At least, the Swiss have not gone ‘native’ and ‘populist’.

    Swiss voters have rejected a proposal to give Swiss law precedence over international law and treaties, according to results coming in from a national referendum.

    Figures based on partial results give 67% against and 33% in favour, national broadcaster SRF said.

    Critics said the proposal would have damaged the country’s global standing.

    A proposal to subsidise farmers who do not remove their cows’ horns has also been rejected.

    The rejection of the sovereignty proposal is a major blow for the right-wing Swiss People’s Party (SVP), which put it forward, says the BBC’s Imogen Foulkes in Geneva.

    Some analysts are already asking whether the SVP’s brand of populism – it is the largest party in parliament – has peaked.

    The proposal upset almost the whole of the political spectrum and could have affected Swiss relations with the European Union and even the United Nations, our correspondent adds.

    All the other big political parties in Switzerland, business leaders, and human rights groups conducted a very organised campaign of opposition to the sovereignty proposal.

    The SVP argued the measure would have bolstered Switzerland’s autonomy and national identity.

  106. 106.

    poleaxedbyboatwork

    @Omnes Omnibus: Takes formidible courage and unsparing honesty to confront oneself. Props. My old man was a stone drunk for most of my life (scotch), then he quit. (Dumped the sticks, too, cuz why not?) Only way out is through, as the sayin goes. Ain’t gonna be easy, as I’m sure you’re well aware. But there’s immense strength in simple recognition, n support from others and want-to from yourself will fill your sails when you need it most. Best wishes.

  108. 108.

    Brachiator

    @cmorenc:

    Harboring racist attitudes toward blacks seemed back then as natural as swimming in water did to fish.

    What is this “back then” shit? The 60s gave white people an opportunity to give up their long held racist beliefs, but a chunk of them, in the South and elsewhere, looked desperately for a place where they could feel comfortable in their bigotry. Ironically, the party of Lincoln opened up its loving arms to them, even as the Democrats began its internal struggle to try to purge itself of its racist past.

    The struggle continues. It is a hopeful sign that you have a number of people of color running for statewide office in the South, But it is sad to see white people hide behind “conservative” values to vote for white candidates who will never have their best interests in heart.

  111. 111.

    Brachiator

    Cindy Hyde-Smith attended an all-white segregation academy set up so that white parents could avoid having to send their children to schools with black students

    Oh, by the way, Trump’s new tax law helps people save up for segregation academies.

    529 plans have traditionally been offered to help families save for their children’s college educations. …

    Parents can now use the 529 plan to pay for their children’s education at private elementary and high schools.

    Obviously, this was meant simply to give parents more choices when it comes to educating their children. But clearly it is a boon to bigots as well.

  112. 112.

    MattF

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well, my own drinking days are long over… but I’ve seen, close-up and personal, what an alcohol habit will do, over the years, to the formerly-smart and formerly-beautiful. You’ve made the right choice.

  114. 114.

    Jay

    @Platonailedit:

    The Great British Brexit Bake Off has scared the crap out of “The Nationalists” and the process has taught many people in the “Know Nothing” Parties and their supporters about the benifits of the EU.

    Even the Poles have stopped slamming the EU.

  115. 115.

    Anne Laurie

    @schrodingers_cat:

    So who fired the tear gas and under whose orders? Who is in charge here?

    Hoary old ‘joke’ about a carload of drunks weaving down the highway: Nobody waz driving, Offisher… we waz all inna back, singing!

    If there is sufficient pushback (which I’m not convinced will happen), the co-conspirators of the Thug-in-Chief will release a Reaganesque ‘mistakes were made’ non-apology. If that doesn’t satisfy the media — and, barring death or escalation, it almost certainly will — they’ll find some bottom-level grunt to hold up as a Terrible Example and prosecute (as they did with Lynndie England). But the odds, I’m afraid, are very much that this will be remembered only by future historians, discussing the minutia sparking the Great North American Border War…

  116. 116.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Nothing to apologize for. This is a very important item for discussion. Look how many of your fellow travelers have shown support, some of whom have been in your shoes. Not one person is being that dick in getting in the least upset. We understand. Every once in a while things do need to be about you. This is one of those times it’s for you, and anyone else who wants to make that decision.
    It’s a big step, we are all glad you decided to take it and we are here to support you as best as we can. Some of us even know what that step feels like, don’t be afraid to ask what the next ones are like, we’ve taken those as well.

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Congratulations for having the strength to realize it was a problem and to be willing to do something about it. Make sure you get some off-line support as well. You don’t necessarily need an AA group — the right therapist can get you on the right road. Good luck! ?

  120. 120.

    SFAW

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Sorry to have taken over the thread.

    Don’t be silly. Telling us took guts, and we’re glad you trusted us enough to do so.

    And, besides, it’s not as if you started ranting about what a terrible candidate Hillary was, or how “Bernie wuz ROBBED!” If you did that, we might have given you a hard time.

  124. 124.

    Schlemazel

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Thanks for your honesty, congratulations on your realization and best of luck on your recovery. I come from a long line of alcoholics and I know the damage they do and how hard it is to beat the demon. Your life will be better when you do not need it.

    I consider myself very fortunate. I like a beer or a glass of wine but I do not need either. I go for weeks without it and at ‘worst’ might have a 6-pack a week in the summer. Having seen family who cannot make it a day without intoxication (my dad) and I am forever grateful that of all the evil visited upon me that is one demon I do not have to fight.

  125. 125.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Every time I (over)share here, I’m reminded that there are at least a dozen lurkers or infrequent commenters who are dealing with the same thing but are too shy to comment. So IMO there’s a good chance you helped someone else come to the same life-saving realization even if they don’t post about it.

  126. 126.

    Schlemazel

    I was just looking. Today we gassed women & children, the Russians moved against Ukraine and the 10 top trending topics on twitter are about the fucking NFL

    Hell is real and we are condemned to it

  130. 130.

    Schlemazel

    @A Ghost To Most:
    Having been there a couple of times I can guess. And that was before the Packers arrived

    “Chicago” is a French translation of the Miami-Illinois word “shikaakwa” which means stinky onion

    meanwhile Saint Paul kept taking young men into the wilderness alone to train them up and Minneapolis is a made up word that includes the Lakota word for water and the Greek word for city in an attempt to sound sophisticated and inclusive

  137. 137.

    poleaxedbyboatwork

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Green Bay was originally called (in French) “The Bay of Stinks”. Any idea why?

    Baies des Puants, Bay of Stinkers. My unnerstanding, subject to correction, is the green algae that oft thrives in the shallows stinks up the place. Apparently it’sa preexisting condition: The name Winnebago meant “evil-smelling” in playing-the-dozens Algonquin, and the French voyageurs translated that diss to “Puants.”

    Course, it might just be a knock on Green Bay as the so-callt “toilet paper capital of the world”. (First splinterless TP!)

  139. 139.

    Steeplejack

    @Schlemazel:

    [. . .] Minneapolis is a made up word that includes the Lakota word for water and the Greek word for city in an attempt to sound sophisticated and inclusive.

    Mission accomplished!

    Compare and contrast with “Arkadelphia.”

  140. 140.

    Jackie

    I live in PST, so 60 Minutes hasn’t started yet. But, after reading that Trump is throwing tantrums in response to their coverage of children separated from parents at the border – immediately set DVR to record.

  143. 143.

    Haroldo

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    Course, it might just be a knock on Green Bay as the so-callt “toilet paper capital of the world”. (First splinterless TP!)

    I grew up there – we were told we had the highest per capita consumption of beer in the US (and the lowest per captia consumption of soap). I chose to believe at least half of that was true.

  144. 144.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Omnes Omnibus: My kitchen sink now smells like brandy and beer. Better safe than sorry. If I drink again, it needs to be a definite choice not a slip up after a long day.

  145. 145.

    poleaxedbyboatwork

    @Haroldo:

    I grew up there – we were told we had the highest per capita consumption of beer in the US (and the lowest per captia consumption of soap).

    Suds of bleary, nary a visage cleary?

  148. 148.

    Ruckus

    @rikyrah:
    I always take my receipt. But have never thought about it that way, because I never had to. And no one should have to think about life that way, that everything has to be done because of what you look like and in fear that not doing that small thing may cost you your life.
    And that takes me back to a girl I knew in school. She had polio, she wore braces, she used crutches and while I never saw or heard anyone give her shit, she was shunned by a large percentage of the kids, because she was different. And she has been one of my heroes because she kept her head up and carried on. But that isn’t in the same universe as worrying about being killed for what you look like, what you were born like. It also reminds me of a dear friend, who passed last year, who made a trip to Africa to see what’s what with her heritage. She had the same reaction to it as Richard Pryor, that eye opening discovery that everyone looked like him, that no one was looking for him to get out of line because of what he looked like.

  150. 150.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus: clearly god is testing you. Be strong!

    Last CLE I went to had an hour on addiction and substance abuse. It’s all too common in our profession. You can do it!

  153. 153.

    pluky

    @PhoenixRising: beat me to it, but to under score, with emphasis — acute withdrawl from alcohol (or benzos for that matter) can be LETHAL! If at all possible do so under medical supervision.

  160. 160.

    Shana

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have a nephew who was an addict, drugs and alcohol , who got clean several years ago. His bottom was realizing that the mother of his child wouldn’t let him see his daughter until he got clean. Everyone has their own bottom. Good for you for having realized your situation. We’re here for you. Use the resources that are there for you. My nephew goes to AA and other meetings almost every day and that works for him. Find your resources and use them as often as you need them.

  168. 168.

    workworkwork

    @debbie: The brilliant part of this film was casting Mary Tyler Moore so against type. I think this gave more impact to her performance.

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