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You are here: Home / Politics / America / Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg Are Having a Very Bad, No Good, Horrible Day: British Parliamentary and International Grand Committee on Disinformation Edition

Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg Are Having a Very Bad, No Good, Horrible Day: British Parliamentary and International Grand Committee on Disinformation Edition

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Carole Cadwalladr’s relentless pursuit of the bad acts committed by a host of bad actors around Brexit and the 2016 US presidential elections has some news for us from the British parliamentary inquiry, also attended by representatives from Canada, Germany, Belgium, and other countries, into Facebook. From the 4:30 PM GMT session:

This is in addition to this morning’s (Greenwich Mean Time) bombshells:

Is Zuckerberg about to have a very, very bad several weeks? Why yes, yes he is!

 

For those who want to see her entire live tweetstorm of this morning’s hearings, you can start here:

Jason Kint’s starts here:

While the current administration may not care to do anything about this, especially given how much it has benefited the President, and the GOP majorities in the House and the Senate aren’t really interested either, the British, the Canadians, the Germans, the Belgians, the French, and the European Union are. And they will conduct the inquiries, criminal investigations, prosecutions, and ultimately create the regulation that will bring Zuckerberg and Sandberg and a whole host of other bad actors that have leveraged what Zuckerberg and Sandberg created to heel.

Do you know who in the US is paying close attention to the inquiries today in Parliament? Special Counsel Mueller and Congressman Adam Schiff.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

281Comments

  3. 3.

    C Stars

    Just donated to the Guardian for the first time after reading Carole Cadwalladr’s reports on Nigel Farage/Manafort/Assange. The FB thread here reinforces my opinion of her as a badass bulldog journalist.

    She scares those rotten old white dudes. Scares them silly.

  4. 4.

    TenguPhule

    Is Zuckerberg about to have a very, very bad several weeks? Why yes, yes he is!

    Alexa, order all the designer popcorn.

  6. 6.

    Miss Bianca

    MP to Facebook’s lobbyist, Lord Allan:
    “Lord Allan you are a member of parliament. How do you think it looks that Mark Zuckerberg didn’t turn up to to answer questions to parliament today?”
    Lord Allan: “Not great.”

    “Not great”. Is that some more of that famed British understatement we’ve heard so much about?

  12. 12.

    The Dangerman

    Bitcoin takes a huge dump and Facebook is having a bad day. Interesting times for the MOTU.

  13. 13.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Raoul Paste: The British government may, overall, be all ate up over the Brexit BS, but the parliamentary investigative committees know how to function and do.

  14. 14.

    JustRuss

    Paul Farrelly: ‘you’ve used the word deceptive. From what we’ve seen you could also use the word amoral, rapacious, contemptuous’

    Very much liking the cut of this fellow’s jib.

  17. 17.

    piratedan

    @zhena gogolia: obviously not all standards are equal…. dog balls, a line that you simply do not cross…

    treason, its okay as long as we’re getting paid….. besides, we’re citizens of the world, what can they do to us?

  19. 19.

    TenguPhule

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔
    @realDonaldTrump
    The Phony Witch Hunt continues, but Mueller and his gang of Angry Dems are only looking at one side, not the other. Wait until it comes out how horribly & viciously they are treating people, ruining lives for them refusing to lie. Mueller is a conflicted prosecutor gone rogue….

    55.4K
    2:30 AM – Nov 27, 2018

    ….The Fake News Media builds Bob Mueller up as a Saint, when in actuality he is the exact opposite. He is doing TREMENDOUS damage to our Criminal Justice System, where he is only looking at one side and not the other. Heroes will come of this, and it won’t be Mueller and his…

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔
    @realDonaldTrump
    ….terrible Gang of Angry Democrats. Look at their past, and look where they come from. The now $30,000,000 Witch Hunt continues and they’ve got nothing but ruined lives. Where is the Server? Let these terrible people go back to the Clinton Foundation and “Justice” Department!

    58.8K
    3:07 AM – Nov 27, 2018

    PissyMcPissface is pissed off.

  20. 20.

    dmsilev

    @TenguPhule: I assume he got bad news of some sort, though it could just be that the White House kitchen ran low on ice cream and he only got one scoop with his pie this morning.

  23. 23.

    germy

    Where is the Server?

    “It’s been ten minutes and she hasn’t been back to refill my Diet Coke! And this steak is rare! I told her I wanted it burnt to a crisp!”

  24. 24.

    different-church-lady

    Remember when we thought none of this mattered because Facebook couldn’t throw you in jail? Good times, good times….

  28. 28.

    Another Scott

    @different-church-lady: +1

    Just because people “voluntarily” sign up doesn’t mean that Facebook gets to do whatever they want with whatever data they extract from them. The law needs to be clear about that, and there needs to be substantial punishments for violations. “Yeah, we let you grow into a multi-hundred billion dollar empire, but don’t do that bad stuff any more or we’ll be cross” doesn’t cut it.

    Cui bono?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  29. 29.

    Frankensteinbeck

    While the current administration may not care to do anything about this

    The United States was long overdue to find out we’re not the only actor in the world. Other countries have power and agency.

  31. 31.

    C Stars

    @dmsilev: He’s a showman and a con, but–having winced my way through too many Trump interviews–somehow I suspect that the drivel he tweets is probably not too far off from what he would actually say in his own defense in a court of law. For Dear Tweeter the court of public opinion is more important, and an unthinkable number of idiots will read these ridiculous tweets as absolving him completely, in advance, of any personal responsibility or criminal wrongdoing.

  40. 40.

    boatboy_srq

    @Another Scott: One reason I hardly ever posted on FB was, buried in the fine print, legal language that converted any images uploaded to Facebook into Facebook-copyrighted content. That to me is theft.

    The signs were there long before this catastrophe.

  42. 42.

    chris

    @Immanentize: Sounds like the Russians and also some shadowy US backers have abandoned the NRA. For now anyway.

    ETA: It’s still formidable operation with revenue of $300,000,000+

  43. 43.

    boatboy_srq

    @TenguPhule: I’m wondering whether OH bitcoin holders will try to dump their soon-to-be-worthless cryptocurrency on the state, and then declare a loss on their income taxes for the devaluation.

  44. 44.

    Miss Bianca

    @dmsilev:

    I regard bitcoin as a tool for teaching libertarians why currency regulations and anti-fraud laws are valuable. Most of them fail the lesson, of course.

    My pal D is a classic libertarian – he has all the right moves – anti-Federal Reserve! Bring back the gold standard! – etc – but I am relieved to report that he has yet to fall prey to the bitcoin scam. That I know of, anyway.

    He prefers to keep his money in stocks and a cache of silver and gold in his safe.

  47. 47.

    Yarrow

    Ah, Treasonbook. You don’t get to take all that Russian money with no strings attached, Mark and Sheryl.

    Remember when Zuckerberg was making noises about running for President? LOLOLOLOLOL.

  48. 48.

    MCA1

    @Frankensteinbeck: Yep. I guess that may be a silver lining to the U.S. just unilaterally abdicating all of the massive global power and goodwill we built up of 75 years (despite plenty of missteps and overreaching and whatever) in just a few months under the Orange Menace. Other nations can and are stepping into the vacuum we created.

    America looks pathetic and useless and spent in our emerging new global order. It’s amazing that we’ve literally become part of the problem and not the solution in such a short span of time. Probably one of the longest lasting “legacies” of the Drumpf era.

  49. 49.

    TenguPhule

    @boatboy_srq:

    I’m wondering whether OH bitcoin holders will try to dump their soon-to-be-worthless cryptocurrency on the state, and then declare a loss on their income taxes for the devaluation.

    Converting payments into US dollars at any scale over four digits should be real fun. They might finish the first round within five years.

  50. 50.

    Yutsano

    @boatboy_srq: Oh please please PLEASE try to take two bites from that apple! if Nancy SMASH gets the IRS a decent budget the auditors will have a field day with that.

    (If anyone is curious: they deduct the Bitcoin as part of state and local taxes then attempt to pull a carryback loss on the same thing they deducted. Can’t do that.)

  51. 51.

    TenguPhule

    @Yarrow:

    Remember when Zuckerberg was making noises about running for President? LOLOLOLOLOL.

    precedent has been set that working for a foreign power is no longer an obstacle to running.

  54. 54.

    mapaghimagsik

    I thought I’d join a Python Programming group on Facebook. I got:
    1. A collection of assholes trying to get me to their blog
    2. A collection of assholes trying to sell me stuff
    3. A collection of assholes who needed help with languages other than Python.
    4. A collection of assholes looking to hire programmers! Just message them.

    It was assholes, all the way down.

  56. 56.

    Yutsano

    @TenguPhule:

    Converting payments into US dollars at any scale over four digits should be real fun.

    To be fair, it’s REALLY hard to owe more than four digits to a state tax agency. It’s not IMPOSSIBLE (especially in California, the FTB don’t play) but it’s not something I see very often, when I do see state balances.

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Immanentize: Combination of things. According to the reporting, 1/5th of the NRA’s funding in 2016 came from a single, undisclosed donor. So that’s a big chunk. My guess is this donor is either the Mercers or the US citizen nephew of one of Putin’s oligarchs who has been laundering Russian oligarch money through McConnell’s and Ryan’s superPACs. The other shortfall is from a drop off in memberships. The NRA has long claimed, as in for about the past 20 years, that it has 4 million members. Every year. Year in and year out. However, they refuse to let anyone outside the NRA actually review the memberships to fact check. So there is no way to know how many of these are life memberships purchased decades ago and the life member is now dead. Moreover, large numbers of businesses that cater to hunters, sports shooters, etc offer discounts on your first order if you also purchase a lifetime NRA membership or they offer a discounted lifetime NRA membership with that first purchase. So if you buy a discounted lifetime membership, that’s a one off bit of discounted revenue that isn’t being repeated year on year. And there are a lot of the hard core 2nd amendment absolutists that can’t stand the NRA. They think they aren’t proactive enough on 2nd amendment issues in the courts (this is, actually, true as the NRA’s legal strategies are notoriously conservative to the point of being risk averse), they think they haven’t leveraged their influence with the President and the GOP majorities in the House and Senate to push through the two major pieces of legislation that these folks want to see: national conceal carry reciprocity and removing suppressors/silencers from under the jurisdiction of the National Firearms Act (NFA). Here’s an example of this:
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/11/ttag-contributor/attention-all-law-abiding-gun-owners-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-is-in-jeopardy/

    And, as a result, a lot of these hardcore 2nd amendment absolutists instead support the 2nd Amendment Foundation (who actually is proactive in regard to litigation and is responsible for the Heller and McDonald rulings) and even more extreme firearms groups such as Gun Owners of America, which is led by an actual extremist; NAGR, which is led by a grifter (all they seem to do is solicit for money and they commingle their mailing lists with Rand Paul’s and Thomas Massie’s); and several others.

  58. 58.

    dmsilev

    @boatboy_srq: I’d expect short peaks now and then (it’s a very volatile market, to put it mildly), but overall the trend is heading downwards and will probably continue doing so. Looking quickly at a bitcoin price chart, it’s back down to where it was ~1.5 years ago, but there were plenty of jagged ups and downs superimposed on the overarching trend.

  62. 62.

    Obvious Russian Troll

    @boatboy_srq: Bitcoin is likely to remain volatile, so there will be peaks and valleys even if the general trend is downward.

    Edit: I was slow. At least the edit screen works.

  63. 63.

    mapaghimagsik

    @Adam L Silverman: No one has asked me for help with Python in terrible, horrible, not very good English that could be solved with a 2 second google. Still, it showed me the “LetMeGoogleThatForYou” link, which is fun, but not enough to save facebook for me.

  65. 65.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And, as a result, a lot of these hardcore 2nd amendment absolutists instead support the 2nd Amendment Foundation (who actually is proactive in regard to litigation and is responsible for the Heller and McDonald rulings) and even more extreme firearms groups such as Gun Owners of America, which is led by an actual extremist; NAGR, which is led by a grifter (all they seem to do is solicit for money and they commingle their mailing lists with Rand Paul’s and Thomas Massie’s); and several others.

    All of which should be tracked by the FBI as potential terrorist groups in a sane timeline.

  68. 68.

    Adam L Silverman

    This is not surprising.

  69. 69.

    Corner Stone

    @TenguPhule: The HuffPo summary I read (reporting on business taxes) said businesses will make a payment online to a clearinghouse. That vendor will immediately convert to USD and deposit. The nature of currency exchange makes that somewhat tricky but it’s not going through a clerk’s office to be processed. Ohio adds a fee on top of taxes, I’m guessing to cover some of the clearinghouse fees, and then the vendor will, IMO, arbitrage the bitcoin deposits. Ohio is basically getting an ePayment and the clearinghouse vendor is taking on more of the risk. For which I am sure they are getting paid.

  71. 71.

    gene108

    @MCA1:

    Bush, Jr started the slide of America’s global standing. Obama sort of managed to package it as a one-off thing.

    Then Donald gets elected and the world now realizes how volatile and polarized US politics is that there will be wild swings in policy from Democratic to Republican administrations.

    Basically, we can never recover until we bury Republicans in at least a decade of massive electoral defeat.

  72. 72.

    TenguPhule

    @Corner Stone:

    Ohio is basically getting an ePayment and the clearinghouse vendor is taking on more of the risk. For which I am sure they are getting paid.

    In that case it sounds like Ohio’s state government have decided to waste a whole lot of money to demonstrate the perils of believing in crypto-hype.

  73. 73.

    Mandalay

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Officials made it clear that the decision for Haspel not to appear in front of the committee came from the White House.

    Nothing to see here. Please move along…

  74. 74.

    different-church-lady

    @Yarrow:

    Remember when Zuckerberg was making noises about running for President? LOLOLOLOLOL

    I repeat my comment at #35.

  79. 79.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: 2AF really isn’t. GOA definitely promotes that stuff. NAGR is, from what I can tell, just a grift scam being run via email.

  84. 84.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Still scratching the ol’ noggin over this from the instruction booklet of an item received and unpacked yesterday:

    Demolition of [this product] with authorization is strictly prohibited.

  85. 85.

    TenguPhule

    @Immanentize:

    which is why Haley quit

    Funny thing, she was just at the UN to rail against Russia’s boat handling skills.

    Apparently she’s still there.

  86. 86.

    Spanky

    @TenguPhule:

    In that case it sounds like Ohio’s state government have decided to waste a whole lot of money to demonstrate the perils of believing in crypto-hype

    You may call it a waste of money (it is), but it’s going into someone’s pockets. It would be interesting to learn exactly whose, and what connection they have to the decision-makers in the state govt.

  89. 89.

    Roger Moore

    @Kraux Pas:

    They say fiat money isn’t backed by anything of value.

    They’re idiots. Do they think the price of gold- or any other commodity, for that matter- would be unaffected if we were to use it as a currency? There simply isn’t enough of any commodity in the world for its price to stay stable if it were used to back currency. That pretty much has to be the case. Otherwise, there would have to be some commodity out there that’s simultaneously so valuable that world supply is more valuable than the world money supply and so worthless that adding demand equal to the world money supply doesn’t change its price.

  91. 91.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @TenguPhule:

    Scientists hope that insects will have a chance to embody that resilience. While tigers tend to give birth to three or four cubs at a time, a ghost moth in Australia was once recorded laying 29,100 eggs, and she still had 15,000 in her ovaries. The fecund abundance that is insects’ singular trait should enable them to recover, but only if they are given the space and the opportunity to do so.

    A ray of hope. We have to act and soon.

  92. 92.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @boatboy_srq:
    That’s my benighted state. This place is quickly transforming into Indiana, it’s becoming so backwards. We’re going to be a Stand Your Ground and Fetal Hearbeat Abortion Ban state too!

  94. 94.

    TenguPhule

    TRUMP: It all began with the World Trade Organization, a disaster — a disaster. I would actually say that was perhaps – I say NAFTA was the worst trade deal ever made. I would say only – only – challenged by the WTO. That has been – if you look at China, China’s ascension was the day that the WTO was signed. It’s a one-sided deal. They were treated as a – you know, as a growing country, as a – what would you say? How would you say that?

    Donald Trump interview with the Wall Street Journal.

    TRUMP: So, but what I’m saying is that I am very happy with what’s going on right now. We’ve only used a small portion of what we have to use because I have another $267 billion [in imports] to go if I want, and then I’m also able to raise interest rates. And we have money that is pouring right now, pouring –

    WSJ: When you say interest rates, do you mean – do you mean tariffs, as opposed to interest rates?

    TRUMP: I’m sorry, the rate, the 25 percent rate –

    WSJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.

    It gets worse.

    TRUMP: We have money that is pouring into our treasury right now, and on January 1 it’ll become much more so. And here’s the story: If we don’t make a deal, then I’m going to put the $200 — and it’s really $67 — billion additional on at an interest rate between 10 and 25 depending.

    WSJ: Including even iPhones and laptops and things that people would know?

    TRUMP: Maybe. Maybe. Depends on what the rate is. I mean, I can make it 10 percent and people could stand that very easily. But if you read that recent poll that came out, we’re only being – most of this is being – the brunt of it is being paid by China. You saw that.

    And even worse.

    WSJ: Let me ask you also, I mean, so you gave advice to the – to U.S. business. What advice would you give to the Chinese who are trying to decide how to deal with you?

    TRUMP: Make a fair deal. The only deal that would really be acceptable to me – other than obviously we have to do something on the theft of intellectual property, right – but the only deal would be China has to open up their country to competition from the United States.

    WSJ: Huh. Do you think you will go ahead with the tariffs on the cars?

    TRUMP: If they don’t make a fair deal with us, I’d do it in about 12 minutes.

    WSJ: Huh.

    TRUMP: It depends whether or not they make a fair deal. So far they’re – you know, we talk about it. So far they’re talking about a deal, but it’s all talk. And I’m not going to make the kind of deal that the U.K. made, believe me.

    DAVIS: What do you want them to do?

    TRUMP: Huh?

    DAVIS: What would you like them to do? What would be a fair deal?

    TRUMP: A fair deal is that they have to take down their barriers and that they have to start – stop charging us massive taxes for our people – and also their standards. For instance, they’ll create a standard – we’ll make a product, and they’ll make a standard that’s different than the product, lower or higher. But it’s different. So then our product can’t come into the EU. They do that all the time, like with medical equipment, OK? But they have to take down their barriers and they have to take off the taxes. And, frankly, they have to start treating our companies better, because they sue all of our companies for billions and billions of dollars. They’re picking up all this money from our companies. We should be the ones to sue our companies.

    XI is going to pants him.

  98. 98.

    Brachiator

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The British government may, overall, be all ate up over the Brexit BS, but the parliamentary investigative committees know how to function and do.

    These investigations are very much “after the fact” and pretend that it’s all about Zuckerberg and some bad Russians. But I will bet good money that a number of people, including British MPs profited from some of the bad things that Zuck has done.

    And they will conduct the inquiries, criminal investigations, prosecutions, and ultimately create the regulation that will bring Zuckerberg and Sandberg and a whole host of other bad actors that have leveraged what Zuckerberg and Sandberg created to heel.

    You cannot effectively regulate the Internets without killing it.

  100. 100.

    TenguPhule

    In a further sign of Russia’s resistance to Western pressure, a court in Russian-controlled Crimea ordered at least two of the detained Ukrainian sailors to remain behind bars until at least Jan. 25 on charges of illegally crossing the border, Russian media reported.

    The U.S. State Department on Monday had called for the detained sailors to be freed and Ukraine’s ships returned.

    Meanwhile half the world away….

  102. 102.

    TenguPhule

    The first lady’s office described the red motif: “The choice of red is an extension of the pales, or stripes found in the presidential seal designed by our Founding Fathers. It is a symbol of valor and bravery.”

    However, the unconventional grove of red trees evoked an immediate reaction online. They were described as scary and ominous and referred to as the “hallway of Yuletide murders” and “the avenue of blood red trees.”

    These people can’t get anything right.

  103. 103.

    TenguPhule

    Watch a man shoot a box of explosives to announce his baby boy — and start an $8 million wildfire

    There are two things that outraged Arizonans can learn from a video that shows the start of the 47,000-acre Sawmill Fire, which caused more than $8 million in damage and took 800 firefighters a week to get under control:

    1) Explosives will immediately ignite tall grass and spread flames over a parched Arizona landscape, with devastating effects.

    2) Dennis Dickey’s baby is a boy.

    Authorities had already revealed the eye-rolling reason behind the massive 2017 wildfire: a Border Patrol agent’s gender reveal party — with a guest appearance by the explosive Tannerite — that went wrong in a flash.

    Florida Man ex-pat?

  104. 104.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @TenguPhule:

    But if you read that recent poll that came out, we’re only being – most of this is being – the brunt of it is being paid by China. You saw that.

    What the fuck does a poll have to do with actual economic reality? Who does Trump think he is, Mr. Mxyzptlk? That whatever he believes will become reality?

    Xi is going to pants him

    Oh don’t worry. Not that Trump believes this, but the PRC will probably collapse in a few decades due to climate change. Totally winning /s

  106. 106.

    Corner Stone

    @Brachiator:

    You cannot effectively regulate the Internets without killing it.

    The refrain of every Big Tech company in the last 30 years. Also the same thing every monopoly business in various industries testified to.

  108. 108.

    gene108

    @Adam L Silverman:

    and even more extreme firearms groups such as Gun Owners of America, which is led by an actual extremist

    Larry Pratt is a fucking white supremacist. I bet there is a lot of overlap with 2nd Amendment absolutists and white supremacists.

  110. 110.

    TenguPhule

    When Geraldo is lecturing you from the moral high ground, you’ve hit rock bottom.

    “I want to say I am ashamed,” he said Monday on “The Five.” “This tear gas choked me. We treat these people — these economic refugees — as if they’re zombies from ‘The Walking Dead.’ We arrested 42 people; eight of them were women with children.

    “We have to deal with this problem humanely and with compassion. These are not invaders. Stop using these military analogies. This is absolutely painful to watch.”

    Rivera continued: “We are a nation of immigrants. These are desperate people. They walked 2,000 miles. Why? Because they want to rape your daughter or steal your lunch? No. Because they want a job! . . . We suspend our humanity when it comes to this issue. And I fear that it is because they look different than the mainstream.”

  111. 111.

    Brachiator

    @Another Scott:

    Just because people “voluntarily” sign up doesn’t mean that Facebook gets to do whatever they want with whatever data they extract from them. The law needs to be clear about that, and there needs to be substantial punishments for violations. “Yeah, we let you grow into a multi-hundred billion dollar empire, but don’t do that bad stuff any more or we’ll be cross” doesn’t cut it.

    Being on the Internet, using it, completing transactions, creates data, and software and powerful computers create ways of analyzing the data and creating relationships. It is not just FaceBook and there are few realistic or effective ways to control or curb it. Especially when people want to have a presence on the Internet for fun, business, connecting with friends, etc.

  113. 113.

    Jeffro

    @TenguPhule: When the Mango Menace finally snaps for good, I’m wondering if his repetitive babble-phrase is going to be “angryDemsangryDemsangryDems” or “whereistheservertheservertheserverwhereistheserver?”

    Rubber room, here we come! Stroke out and save us all a lot of hassle, Donnie

  114. 114.

    TenguPhule

    Elon Musk says he will probably move to Mars

    Despite a high likelihood of dying even before arriving and daily conditions hostile to human life, Elon Musk said in an interview Sunday that he’ll probably move to Mars.

    The SpaceX and chief executive said there’s a “70 percent chance” he’ll get to Mars within his lifetime, with plans to permanently resettle on the Red Planet. Musk said his desire to colonize Mars is driven by the same passion that fuels people to climb mountains — for the challenge.

    I will not crack a joke about Musk returning home…I will not crack a joke about Musk returning home….I will not crack a joke about Musk returning home.

  116. 116.

    Mike in DC

    @TenguPhule: Corrupt or not, underfunded and underequipped or not, Ukraine will rise to the occasion. Russia appears to be attempting to eat up territory, one bite at a time. They want to secure a land corridor to Crimea, via Mariupol and Berdyansk(also further hurting the Ukrainian economy). Doing so makes the Minsk Agreement a dead letter, however, and I’d expect a push for more sanctions on Russia and further assistance(including lethal aid) for Ukraine. At some point, we might even see a Ukrainian counter-offensive.

  117. 117.

    sharl

    FTC has TEETH

    Hmm, they probably do have teeth, but according to some critics, they usually leave them soaking in a glass of water as they proceed through their “work days” in their PJs.

    Of course FB operates as a crime racket. That's what happens when the Federal Trade Commission doesn't enforce the law for decades. But if Zuckerberg were honest someone willing to operate as a crime racket would have bought or beaten FB. Gresham's Law. https://t.co/QgO5bitzPh— Matt Stoller (@matthewstoller) November 27, 2018

    Oversight hearing of the Federal Trade Commission is starting at 2:30pm. Live-streaming here. Expect FTC Commissioners to talk about how aggressively they enforce the law and/or take naps. https://t.co/Q8sgI8MeU5— Matt Stoller (@matthewstoller) November 27, 2018

  118. 118.

    Adam L Silverman

    I’m pretty sure this means Stephen Miller is going to write an executive order for the President to sign requiring that Jared be detained upon reentry:

  120. 120.

    Tom Levenson

    @TenguPhule: I saw that and on the one hand I went “It’s Geraldo; he lay down in that sty.” And on the other, I went, “hey, I’ll take Geraldo; I’ll take anyone who finally realizes what’s going on. One person at a time, baby….”

  122. 122.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Brachiator: Yeah, no. Look: other internet companies don’t literally sell your user data to all comers. FB did that — and there’s no reason why they can’t be punished, while the rest of the Internet keeps right on going. FB isn’t the Internet. Hell, it’s widely-acknowledged both in the journalism world, and the tech world, that FB’s “walled garden” is a threat to the Internet as an open community of ideas and knowledge.

  124. 124.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Jared Kushner will receive the Order of the Aztec

    Is that the one where’s he’s given three beautiful virgins for a year and then they cut his heart out of his chest with an obsidian knife?

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    @Corner Stone:

    You cannot effectively regulate the Internets without killing it.

    The refrain of every Big Tech company in the last 30 years.

    Doesn’t change the reality of things.

  127. 127.

    Adam L Silverman

    @germy: Because the relationship between Mexico and Israel has never been better?

    I honestly have no idea other than Pena Nieto is sucking up to the President for some post Mexican presidency reason.

  129. 129.

    Immanentize

    @Brachiator:

    You cannot effectively regulate the Internets without killing it.

    This is first order error. The plan is to regulate companies that are pirating information, stealing identities, and then selling it for personal profit. The regulation will be of corporations, NOT “the internet.” You can BOTH deregulate (democratize might be a better word) the control of the internet (access, speed, no interference) and at the same regulate greedy harmful corporate malfeasance.

  130. 130.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: I don’t know. I’ve sent an email to the people that do Lucha Underground’s storylines and asked if they can clarify this end of season reveal.

  132. 132.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @TenguPhule:
    HOW DARE YOU INSULT OUR LORD AND SAVIOR ELON! /Bess

    I’m totally basing the villain for my story on Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg.

  134. 134.

    Chyron HR

    @TenguPhule:

    “The choice of red is an extension of the pales, or stripes found in the presidential seal designed by our Founding Fathers. It is a symbol of valor and bravery.”

    We’re finally putting the Christ presidential seal back in Christmas!

  136. 136.

    TenguPhule

    This remake of the original Terminator script is terrible.

    In recent years, Elon Musk has become one of the most vocal critics of artificial intelligence, issuing numerous warnings about the threat that powerful machines pose to the future of mankind.

    Now the 47-year-old billionaire inventor and Tesla chief executive has unveiled a potential way for the meager human brain to compete with a superior force that Musk has compared to “an immortal dictator” and “the devil.”

    During an interview with Axios co-founders Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen that aired Sunday on HBO, Musk said humans must merge with artificial intelligence, creating a “symbiosis” that leads to “a democratization of intelligence.”

    “Essentially, how do we ensure that the future constitutes the sum of the will of humanity?” Musk said. “And so, if we have billions of people with the high-bandwidth link to the AI extension of themselves, it would actually make everyone hyper-smart.”

  137. 137.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    You cannot effectively regulate the Internets without killing it.

    Requiring Facebook to protect user data isn’t “regulating the internet”; it’s regulating the behavior of one internet company that has been abusing its position.

  138. 138.

    Brachiator

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Yeah, no. Look: other internet companies don’t literally sell your user data to all comers. FB did that — and there’s no reason why they can’t be punished, while the rest of the Internet keeps right on going. FB isn’t the Internet. Hell, it’s widely-acknowledged both in the journalism world, and the tech world, that FB’s “walled garden” is a threat to the Internet as an open community of ideas and knowledge.

    I have no problem with punishing FaceBook, whatever that means. It will make no difference to what other companies do, or can do.

    The tech world hates the “walled garden” and is always whining about open standards and an open community, but this tends to make the Internet an elitist, hobbyist entity, and makes innovation fitful and erratic. This vision also presupposes that enthusiasts will work for free forever to create applications. Or the fantasy is that a killer app will be bought by a company with big bucks, or by venture capitalists looking for the next best thing.

    And oddly enough, the EU and most governments hate the idea of the Internet as an open community of ideas and knowledge. They want to protect consumers, but they also want backdoors, access to data, and the ability to freely use the same tools that FaceBook and other companies have created.

  144. 144.

    Wapiti

    @boatboy_srq:

    Ohio has just screwed themselves out of revenues announced they will accept bitcoin for tax payments. We’ll see how well that works.

    Amusing. A few months back Steam (the game platform) stopped accepting bitcoin because the conversion rate was too volatile.

  145. 145.

    hueyplong

    @Adam L Silverman: Resigning/quitting over principal but not saying that’s why she did it is kind of like the scene in Dr Strangelove in which Sellers asks how a weapon can be a deterrent if you don’t tell anyone about it.

    These circumstances are more consistent with a strategy of simply vacating before the fecal matter hits the fan.

  148. 148.

    Spanky

    @germy: Hmmmm. The Order of the Aztec …

    “We really love the way you put your heart into your work. Here, lie down on this altar …”

  149. 149.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Brachiator: There’s so much wrong here.

    this tends to make the Internet an elitist, hobbyist entity, and makes innovation fitful and erratic.

    WTF? Facebook and innovation? Surely you must be joking. These companies aren’t about innovatoin — they’re about -monetization-. And it is WIDELY accepted in the tech world [which is the ACTUAL technologists, not the fucking VCs who buy-and-sell tech companies, not the CEOs who are nothing more than glorified salesmen] that the big-ass tech companies have STIFLED innovation. STIFLED it, not encouraged it.

    And oddly enough, the EU and most governments hate the idea of the Internet as an open community of ideas and knowledge.

    Again, so much wrong. I think you’re confusing the -tools- of mass surveillance, with the -use- of mass surveillance by PRIVATE actors.

    Ugh. Let me give you one example. I worked for a Gynormous Internet Tech company for a while. There was -extensive- training on what sorts of PII (personally identifying info) we could access, and for what reasons. It was QUITE detailed. All because of a consent decree with the FTC some number of years back. And it WORKED. I worked on the most widely-deployed machine learning system at the company, used all over internally, very successful, and none of the people on my team had to break the rules about accessing PII.

    Oh, and this company was and is wildly successful.

    You’re buying into the bullshit from these companies, that they can’t move fast without breaking rules.

    Dude, I was there in 1986, when the Arpanet was 9600 baud cross-country. I downloaded X-windows form Berkeley to Cornell, for the CS department, got it working on our machines. I wrote the app-server for the 1996 Olympics, where every page was dynamic. Dave Bacon and I fixed Java SMP scalability, making Java usable on servers. The *idea* that somehow these tech companies need to be able to break all the rules in order to innovate is FICTION. They WANT to do this, b/c it’s more PROFITABLE. That’s all.

  151. 151.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    Requiring Facebook to protect user data isn’t “regulating the internet”; it’s regulating the behavior of one internet company that has been abusing its position.

    The EU is also going after some google divisions, etc.

    Consumer agencies in the Netherlands, Poland and five other European Union countries asked privacy regulators on Tuesday to take action against Google (GOOGL.O) for allegedly tracking the movements of millions of users in breach of the bloc’s new privacy law.

    Some of this is admirable, although I think it will be as pointless as when various government agencies went after Microsoft for Internet Explorer.

  152. 152.

    TenguPhule

    @TenguPhule:

    It was.

    Chad Pergram
    ✔
    @ChadPergram
    From colleague Lucas Tomlinson: Army Lt. Col. Audricia Harris, a Pentagon spokeswoman, tells Fox News there is no active-shooter at Walter Reed, it was only a drill.

    11
    10:16 AM – Nov 27, 2018

  153. 153.

    Jeffro

    @Spanky:

    We really love the way you put your heart into your work

    I’m pretty sure there is a ‘Demotivational’ poster to that effect. I love those! My favorite is the one of the sinking freighter or oil tanker (I forget which)…I think the theme is “Purpose” and the (de)motivational quote is, “It could be that the meaning of your life is to serve as a warning to others”

  154. 154.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: They’ve given the all clear:

  156. 156.

    Jeffro

    @TenguPhule: It’s almost like they take a very long and realistic view of how to get from where they are to where they want to be, then work at it, isn’t it? If it weren’t for the pesky human rights violations, I’d be all ears.

  157. 157.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro:

    I think the theme is “Purpose” and the (de)motivational quote is, “It could be that the meaning of your life is to serve as a warning to others”

    That would also be the fish jumping into the bear’s mouth.

  160. 160.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Brachiator: This “tracking users” that Google does, you do realize that it’s WILDLY LESS than what Facebook did with Cambridge Analytica, right? That Google doesn’t [as far as we know, and they are operating under an FTC consent decree b/c of their screwup with Google Wave (IIRC)] just divulge user profile information to third parties, yes?

  162. 162.

    Elizabelle

    @Jeffro:

    “It could be that the meaning of your life is to serve as a warning to others”

    That’s my favorite too. Sadly.

  167. 167.

    hueyplong

    @Adam L Silverman: I thought somewhere earlier on you said something about Haley quitting over the Saudi murder. If that’s wrong, my bad.

    If that’s right, I’d say she took all meaning from the move by not announcing the true reason why she was quitting.

  168. 168.

    Kent

    I haven’t read through this entire comment thread. Have you guys discussed the extent to which Facebook aided and abetted Russian meddling in the Brexit campaign? I understand that Russian online trolls were just as involved in that campaign as they were in supporting Trump. Has this been discussed?

  169. 169.

    ruemara

    “The internet is not Facebook.”

    Well, the minute you disentangle a sense of irreplaceability from the service, you open the path to regulation or replacement. Interesting.

  172. 172.

    Miss Bianca

    @TenguPhule: “We must defeat the enemy by becoming the enemy! We will be assimilated! And like it!”

    ….whut?

    …EM can board the Mothership any old time now…just sayin’…

  174. 174.

    sharl

    @sharl: More from Stoller’s in-progress live-tweeting of Senate oversight hearing of the Federal Trade Commission:

    It’s just weird how out of touch @SenBillNelson @JoeSimonsFTC and @FTCPhillips sound. Senators @JerryMoran and @DickBlumenthal are angry about Facebook. Phillips is stuck in the mid-2000s talking about the talented staff of the FTC.

    It seems as if @RKSlaughterFTC is going to ask for more authority and resources for the FTC. Unclear why the FTC should have more authority and resources. The FTC doesn’t want to use the authority it has.

    Oh this line of questioning by @DickBlumenthal asking whether the FTC knew what was disclosed today by Parliament about Facebook’s internal knowledge of Russian manipulation in 2014. @JoeSimonsFTC said he hadn’t known about this. Ouch.

    The FTC Chairman said ‘it’s safe to assume we’re investigating’ when there’s a media report and Senator Blumenthal said “It’s not safe to assume…” and demands to know when the FTC investigation will be done. @JoeSimonsFTC won’t give an answer.

    Ha, the FTC Chairman won’t even tell @DickBlumenthal how many employees are investigating Facebook. “I can’t comment on a non-public investigation.”

  175. 175.

    different-church-lady

    @Brachiator: Honestly, I think you’ve gone too far down the “Information wants to be free” rabbit hole. Government regulates all kinds of stuff we take voluntarily.

  177. 177.

    Corner Stone

    @hueyplong: Haley is fairly young and ambitious for a future in R politics. She can quit without stating why and then start a whisper PR effort that tells donors/etc that she is tough but still on board with the R agenda.

  179. 179.

    germy

    LOS ANGELES (AP) – “SpongeBob SquarePants” creator Stephen Hillenburg has died at age 57.

    Nickelodeon says Hillenburg died Monday of Lou Gehrig’s disease, also known as ALS.

    Hillenburg conceived, wrote, produced and directed the animated series that began in 1999 and went on to spawn hundreds of episodes, movies and a Broadway show.

  182. 182.

    different-church-lady

    @Chetan Murthy:

    other internet companies don’t literally sell your user data to all comers.

    It’s not just that: Facebook exists for no other reason than to sell your data to all comers. It’s not an abuse, it’s their raison d’etre.

  183. 183.

    Brachiator

    @TenguPhule:

    TRUMP: We have money that is pouring into our treasury right now, and on January 1 it’ll become much more so. And here’s the story: If we don’t make a deal, then I’m going to put the $200 — and it’s really $67 — billion additional on at an interest rate between 10 and 25 depending.

    WSJ: Including even iPhones and laptops and things that people would know?

    TRUMP: Maybe. Maybe. Depends on what the rate is. I mean, I can make it 10 percent and people could stand that very easily. But if you read that recent poll that came out, we’re only being – most of this is being – the brunt of it is being paid by China. You saw that.

    Trump sounds totally unhinged in this report. That is, he sounds just like he does all the time.

    What’s bad for the country is that Trump’s “chip on his shoulder” approach to economics is nonsense. And yet, no one in the Republican leadership, and none of the supposed hard-headed free market conservatives will call this bullshit what it is.

    This idiot will wreck the US economy just like he wrecked his own businesses.

  184. 184.

    Another Scott

    @Chetan Murthy:

    … the big-ass tech companies have STIFLED innovation. STIFLED it, not encouraged it.

    Yup. This is not in doubt.

    And is nothing new.

    Look at the history of CPM-86 and DR-DOS vs. MS-DOS, DesqView vs Windows 2.x, OS/2 2.0 vs. Windows 95/NT, HP New Wave, WordPerfect vs MS Office, “DOS isn’t done ’til Lotus won’t run”, etc., etc.

    Big companies try – almost without exception – to find a patent or other choke-point to collect monopoly rents and stifle competition. They don’t like free and open competition – they fear it. Only laws and regulations that are enforced can preserve and enhance effective competition, invention, and innovation. Capitalism is pathological otherwise.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  186. 186.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Brachiator:

    The tech world hates the “walled garden” and is always whining about open standards and an open community, but this tends to make the Internet an elitist, hobbyist entity, and makes innovation fitful and erratic.

    OK, let’s try another tack. Please tell me about some of the innovation you think came out of Facebook, yes? Let’s see if they invented anything. B/c as I said up-thread, I was there at the creation of a lot of this stuff. I was sent by IBM to fix Twitter during their Summer of Fail-Whale, back in 2008. Let’s see ….

  187. 187.

    TenguPhule

    @Brachiator:

    This idiot will wreck the US economy just like he wrecked his own businesses.

    He already has.

    Iowa better get used to eating Natto. And lots of it.

  188. 188.

    Corner Stone

    @Another Scott:

    Big companies try – almost without exception – to find a patent or other choke-point to collect monopoly rents and stifle competition. They don’t like free and open competition – they fear it. Only laws and regulations that are enforced can preserve and enhance effective competition, invention, and innovation. Capitalism is pathological otherwise.

    Not quite as front facing for some, but look at the Big Tech agreement not long ago to not poach each other’s employees because they wanted no competition for talent and no wage increase.

  193. 193.

    gene108

    @Brachiator:

    although I think it will be as pointless as when various government agencies went after Microsoft for Internet Explorer.

    It is a pity that Bush, Jr dropped that case. Microsoft used its almost monopolistic position to purposefully destroy a competitor.

    What has evolved in its wake are a bunch of monopolies that dominate the internet, like Google, Amazon, and Facebook, who buy out potential competitors or create competing products to destroy the competition.

    The internet is not a free-wheeling place, where any scrappy guy with tech chops and a good idea can flourish. It is a place, where commerce is concentrated in the hands of a few powerful players.

  195. 195.

    Adam L Silverman

    @hueyplong: Okay. It would not surprise me that that’s why she left, but I don’t have anything specific knowledge over her real reasons.

  196. 196.

    TenguPhule

    U.S. nixed FBI checks on staff at migrant teen detention camp

    The Children’s Concentration Camp is being run by unverified people who like to work with imprisoned minors.

    The Trump administration announced in June it would open a temporary shelter for up to 360 migrant children in this isolated corner of the Texas desert. Less than six months later, the facility has expanded into a detention camp holding thousands of teenagers — and it shows every sign of becoming more permanent.

    As of today, 2,324 largely Central American boys and girls between the ages of 13 and 17 were sleeping inside the highly guarded facility in rows of bunk beds in canvas tents, some of which once housed first responders to Hurricane Harvey. More than 1,300 teens have arrived since the end of October alone.

    Rising from the cotton fields and dusty roads not far from the dark fence marking the border between the U.S. and Mexico, the camp has rows of beige tents and golf carts that ferry staffers carrying walkie-talkies. Teens with identical haircuts and government-issued shirts and pants can be seen walking single file from tent to tent, flanked by staff at the front and back.

    And this fucking thing is becoming more permanent by the day.

    An Associated Press investigation has found that the camp’s rapid growth has created serious problems, including:

    — None of the 2,100 staff are going through rigorous FBI fingerprint background checks, according to a government watchdog memo obtained exclusively by AP. “Instead, Tornillo is using checks conducted by a private contractor that has access to less comprehensive data, thereby heightening the risk that an individual with a criminal history could have direct access to children,” the memo says.

    — Costs appear to be soaring more than 50 percent higher than the government has disclosed. What began as an emergency, 30-day shelter has transformed into a vast tent city that could cost taxpayers more than $430 million.

    — The government is allowing the nonprofit running the facility to sidestep mental health care requirements. Under federal policy, migrant youth shelters generally must have one mental health clinician for every 12 kids, but shelter officials have indicated that Tornillo can staff just one clinician for every 100 children, according to two immigration rights advocates who spoke with AP.

    — Federal plans to close Tornillo by New Years’ Eve will be nearly impossible to meet. There aren’t 2,300 extra beds in other facilities. A contract obtained by AP shows the project could continue into 2020 and planned closures have already been extended three times since this summer.

  198. 198.

    different-church-lady

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Please tell me about some of the innovation you think came out of Facebook, yes? Let’s see if they invented anything.

    The most efficient distribution system for hate humankind has yet devised?

  201. 201.

    Brachiator

    @different-church-lady:

    Honestly, I think you’ve gone too far down the “Information wants to be free” rabbit hole.

    Not at all. I personally lean more toward the opposite direction. But the plain fact is that more of the world’s information is going on line. And the tools to retrieve it create new ways to look at and to analyze the data, to turn it into information. And you can neither stop nor control the ways that they data can be used, nor easily limit its use or access to it.

    Government regulates all kinds of stuff we take voluntarily.

    A number of problems here. Too many in the government have no clue about the internet. Their attempts at regulation miss the point. This is exacerbated by tech companies’ disdain for the government and refusal to deal with the government, either honestly or traditionally. For example, Hollywood has got much of what it wants out of IP laws because lobbyists pay money to and kiss the asses of legislators. The tech industry has not been as forthcoming.

    Also, governments want to use tech to spy on its citizens and resent tech companies for resisting them in any way. Ironically, the US would love to have access to all the tools that FaceBook uses.

    Lastly, you have this new tack where conservatives want to punish tech companies because they perceive them to be either too liberal, or at least too friendly towards liberals.

  203. 203.

    Elizabelle

    Prolly belongs on the previous thread, but Assange may even be catless. Found this while looking (briefly) at that Proud Boys story. Speaking of wankers:

    Daily Beast: Unkempt, Heavily Bearded Julian Assange No Longer Has Embassy Cat For Company
    WikiLeaks founder is living in isolation with limited human contact. Even his cat found it too lonely.

    …. Even the cat that once kept him company and “diffused tension” is gone, according to La Repubblica. “Assange preferred to spare the cat an isolation which has become unbearable and allow it a healthier life.”

    Is this like “the cat went to the farm?” Did he forget to feed it? Or the Ecuadorians removed it, since he wouldn’t clean its litterbox?

  204. 204.

    TenguPhule

    @TenguPhule:

    In June, as detention centers for migrant children overflowed, Scott Lloyd, director of HHS’s Office of Refugee Resettlement, signed a memo granting BCFS a waiver to staff up Tornillo without the required child abuse and neglect checks, which raise a red flag about any potential employee who has a record of hurting a child. There were two reasons for the waiver, according to the inspector general: first, the agency was under pressure to move quickly to open the detention camp, and second, Lloyd’s agency assumed Tornillo staff had already undergone FBI fingerprint checks. They had not.

    One gigantic shitshow from start to finish.

  205. 205.

    Dev Null

    @Adam L Silverman: Right, I know. Your comment struck me as hilariously wryly appropriate – especially in re Python, of all things – and I was playing with the theme you set in motion.

    Not all snark is sarcasm. As you know, of course.

  206. 206.

    different-church-lady

    @eemom: No, I honestly think the shit they pulled is too evil for schadenfreude. They’ve psychologically manipulated entire societies. My disgust is genuine.

  207. 207.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Is this like “the cat went to the farm?”

    The embassy was demanding he take care of it. This is the whining explanation of someone who would rather give up his pet than perform a basic household chore.

  208. 208.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @zhena gogolia:
    Yeah, but it was multiple comments, not just one. I take TenguPhule at his word that he had nothing to add. But from my perspective at the time it was pretty suspicious that he took the time to answer others and not me.

  209. 209.

    different-church-lady

    @Brachiator:

    And you can neither stop nor control the ways that they data can be used, nor easily limit its use or access to it.

    Why not?

    This is veering uncomfortably into “criminals will always get guns so gun laws are useless” territory.

  210. 210.

    trollhattan

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Back in the day CSPAN carried Parliament and I got hooked on question time. Maggie was in office then and regardless of her vile politics she could really hold her own on the floor, doubly impressive given there were very few women in the lower house (either house, actually). In my lifetime I think only Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton and Obama would be able to handle that.

  211. 211.

    TenguPhule

    Last week, Trump gave Defense Secretary Jim Mattis explicit authority to use military troops to protect Customs and Border Protection agents on the border, with lethal force if necessary. Mattis also was empowered to temporarily detain migrants in the event of violence against the border patrol. Mattis told reporters that this did not change the military’s mission in any way and that he would use the new authorities only in response to a request by Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen. He said there had been no such request yet.

    Yet.

  214. 214.

    trollhattan

    @germy:
    Noooo! And damn, ALS may be the worst ailment of all. Thank you, good sir, for giving myriad parents a show we could really, truly enjoy with our kids. r.i.p.

  215. 215.

    TenguPhule

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    But from my perspective at the time it was pretty suspicious that he took the time to answer others and not me.

    You try carrying on four on-going conversations at the same time while also uploading new articles of potential interest to others here first and then get back to me on that.

    A mile in one’s shoes and all that.

    ETA: I’m not passive aggressive, when I’m upset, believe me you’ll figure it out right away.

  216. 216.

    Brachiator

    @Chetan Murthy:

    OK, let’s try another tack. Please tell me about some of the innovation you think came out of Facebook, yes? Let’s see if they invented anything. B/c as I said up-thread, I was there at the creation of a lot of this stuff. I was sent by IBM to fix Twitter during their Summer of Fail-Whale, back in 2008. Let’s see ….

    One of the constants in the history of technology is the invention of tech by one person or group, and its wildly successful exploitation by another person or group. Phil Katz barely made as much as he should have out of creating (along with some others) PKZIP, but file compression has been one of the most useful tech tricks ever.

    FaceBook is not wildly innovative. But they have the money and the smarts to buy, steal, subvert and exploit the innovations of others.

  218. 218.

    Chetan Murthy

    @different-church-lady: @TenguPhule: There are more efficient ways of distributing the “news feed” or “twitter statuses” than what these companies use. Think IM systems — they distribute your “status” (which is where Twitter got “status” from) using much simpler infrastructure, to just as many people. But IM systems don’t have the right setup to allow capturing that stream of status messages, mining it for info, and using that to push advertising at users.

    It’s all about advertising. And sure, these systems could be run on far less resources, hence not needing as much revenue. But what aspiring tech titan wants to hear that?

    A similar thing happened to Skype. Remember them? They were peer-to-peer, hence using almost no centralized server resources: they basically borrowed a little bit of each user’s computer. This is called “P2P” (peer-to-peer). Well, they recently changed to a centralized model. I suspect this is one step in the Microsoft plan for monetization. B/c y’see, as long as it’s P2P, the owner of the service doesn’t see every call, every packet, every stream. MSFT purposely made Skype more expensive to run, and I’d bet it’s so they could mine that data to push ads.

    These companies don’t care about “innovation”. They don’t care about “progress”. They don’t even care about keeping costs down. What they care about, is engineering opportunities to extract revenue.

  219. 219.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @TenguPhule:
    I did say “at the time from my perspective” and that I take you at your word. I was only explaining why I felt the way I did at the time and why I said what I said.

    I believe you.

  220. 220.

    Fair Economist

    @Elizabelle: So Assange spends all day with little to do, yet couldn’t even bother to clean out his cat’s litterbox. Good that he’s learning the world doesn’t owe him a living.

  222. 222.

    TenguPhule

    @Fair Economist:

    So Assange spends all day with little to do, yet couldn’t even bother to clean out his cat’s litterbox.

    To be fair, cat litterboxes are little portals to Hell on Earth.

  224. 224.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Brachiator: Two quotes from you. Do you see the inconsistency?

    The tech world hates the “walled garden” and is always whining about open standards and an open community, but this tends to make the Internet an elitist, hobbyist entity, and makes innovation fitful and erratic.

    FaceBook is not wildly innovative. But they have the money and the smarts to buy, steal, subvert and exploit the innovations of others.

  225. 225.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Gin & Tonic:
    I obviously figured asking would be better than just coming out and accusing. It was just a polite question. I don’t want any bad feelings with anyone without cause.

    ETA: Anyway, enough of this shit. I don’t want to take over a thread with this.

  230. 230.

    Fair Economist

    @Brachiator:

    And you can neither stop nor control the ways that they data can be used, nor easily limit its use or access to it.

    If you think that, you should try searching the internet from China. Or maybe posting something about Winnie the Pooh there – you won’t be able to.

    I remember once years ago I was visiting Vietnam and not being able to look at a site that claimed the Vietnamese were originally from China. Countries are very much able to stop you from using the internet in ways they don’t like.

  231. 231.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Brachiator:

    And you can neither stop nor control the ways that they data can be used, nor easily limit its use or access to it.

    No, this is 100% FALSE. The FTC did exactly this to Google with the consent decree. And it worked for many years. Might even be working now, but I have no knowledge.

  232. 232.

    TenguPhule

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    It was just a polite question.

    No, no it was not. The rules are a little different here. On John’s board its considered rude under the unspoken rules to question or otherwise imply bad faith on the part of another poster here without supporting evidence and absence of evidence is not considered evidence here.

  233. 233.

    Brachiator

    @gene108:

    The internet is not a free-wheeling place, where any scrappy guy with tech chops and a good idea can flourish. It is a place, where commerce is concentrated in the hands of a few powerful players.

    The history of tech is that new innovators render old giants obsolete quickly and definitively. I had bosses who use to tell me that IBM would dominate the computer market for all time. I went to a presentation of the IBM JR personal computer and was stunned at what a piece of shit it was. Later, I worked at a company that had some IBM PCs, and some other “lesser” brands. After a power outage and surge, all the IBM machines blew out, but the Compaqs kept on humming.

    Xerox dominated the laser printer market with big ass machines that required expensive service contracts. Then, HP laser printers were released, smaller and cheaper and easier to use, and soon displaced every Xerox printer in the company.

    Myspace was the place to be until FaceBook ate its lunch. Alta vista, Yahoo, Yes Jeeves or whatever were the search engines of choice until google came along.

    No matter how big you are in the tech world, you will be taken down by something that is new and more useful (though not necessarily better)

  234. 234.

    different-church-lady

    @trollhattan:

    Back in the day CSPAN carried Parliament and I got hooked on question time.

    When Major was PM, I enjoyed watching the calisthenic qualities. Do they still bounce up off the bench and back down with every statement?

  236. 236.

    Fair Economist

    @trollhattan: My stepfather’s son, who I see occasionally for family events and is a nice guy apart from his politics, was recently diagnosed with ALS. In a few months he’s gone from house rehabber to dependent on a cane. Horrible disease and I wish there were more to do for it.

  237. 237.

    debit

    @TenguPhule: Meh. Use some baking soda and keep on top of them (clean every other day at least) and they aren’t that bad. It’s the area around them that can get horrific if you have someone with bad aim. I finally just invested in several heavy high sided trays that the litter boxes sit in to protect my walls and floors. Because Oliver just can’t pee unless his ass is hanging out there in the breeze, the little fucker.

  238. 238.

    Baud

    Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg Are Having a Very Bad, No Good, Horrible Day: British Parliamentary and International Grand Committee on Disinformation Edition

    Like.

  243. 243.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @TenguPhule:
    I was explaining to a commenter my reasoning. I don’t think you were acting under bad faith. I believe you. I was afraid I’d said something to offend you or something similar.

  245. 245.

    NotMax

    @Brachiator

    the IBM JR personal computer

    The Peanut! Yeah, it was a true IBM (Incredibly Bad Machine). Especially the early ones with the sinfully crappy keyboard.

  247. 247.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Brachiator: None of this potted history of the IT industry is remotely a justification for allowing individual companies to run roughshod over their users’ privacy, nor conspiring with enemies of our nation.

    But furthermore, your history leaves out the many, many times that entrenched players destroyed technically superior competitors. And the enormous role that regulation and consent decrees played, in allowing competitors to spring up. Sure, eventually many tech giants get taken down. But not before time, b/c they use their size, market power, lobbying ability, to last far longer than they ought.

    Back to the point: Nothing in this history justifies Facebook’s cavalier attitude with their users’ data. Nothing.

  248. 248.

    NotMax

    @debit

    It’s the area around them that can get horrific if you have someone with bad aim.

    And Assange doesn’t deem it within his wheelhouse to clean up leaks.

    ;)

  251. 251.

    A Ghost To Most

    The decision I made in 2005 to keep my family and I off Fascistbook was indeed a sound one.

  252. 252.

    different-church-lady

    @A Ghost To Most: Curious: what made you resist? I am fascinated by the polarized reaction (as I am by all things regarding human psychology). Some people went in whole-hog, and others could sense the creepiness right off the bat, and I’ve never been able to figure out why.

  256. 256.

    Brachiator

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Two quotes from you. Do you see the inconsistency?

    No.

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Thom Henderson would argue that Phil Katz made more than he should have in the first place.

    And note that I did not say that Katz was the sole creator of PKZIP. But I know a number of big companies that used PKZIP without modification or revision and never paid anyone for its use for a long, long time (at one company, a careful attorney wanted to avoid even the possibility of lawsuits).

    But this also brings me back to the hobbyists who believed that no single person invented ZIP so it should be free for everyone forever, and volunteers should freely devote time to improving it and fixing bugs. Which kinda sorta worked, but not always efficient or fair to those who probably deserve some compensation.

  258. 258.

    Chetan Murthy

    @TenguPhule: Some people think “invasion of privacy” has gone far enough already, without us helping the invaders out. Until this summer I never used social media except for a brief stint at Twitter (I got the account the day I showed up, literally 30min before Jack walked over and asked me what my Twitter ID was, and stopped using it the day I stopped working with them). Never commented on blogs until after I left my Gynormous IT Company employer. Still have never posted a pic of myself anywhere on the Internet. Still remind friends when they send around links to baby pics, that they need to password-protect those things.

    I underestimated the ability of greedy fucks to breach people’s privacy. But I have ALWAYS been paranod about the IDIOTS who build and run IT systems, to leave gaping security holes (found one once at one of the top 3 banks — big enough to drive a fleet of Brinks vans thru) for hackers to exploit. So I figure, don’t leave stuff around for others to steal.

    It’s harder and harder to do that. But certainly back in 2005, it was a no-brainer. “What? You think networked systems are SECURE? What are you smoking?”

  259. 259.

    sm*t cl*de

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Jared Kushner will receive the Order of the Aztec — Mexico’s highest honor for foreigners

    Does the award ceremony involve an obsidian knife? is it performed at the top of a pyramid?

  261. 261.

    Gin & Tonic

    @different-church-lady: I avoided signing up, even though I had an edu e-mail address that would have allowed me on from the beginning, for two reasons: 1) I’ve always had tinfoil-hat tendencies, but more importantly 2) I had two kids in college at the time, who were early adopters, and who were appalled at the prospect of their father being on a social network that they also were on.

  263. 263.

    Adam L Silverman

    @trollhattan: I had to. It was belt high right over the fat part of the plate.

    In all seriousness, it is a terrible disease and I have nothing but sympathy for those afflicted with it.

  265. 265.

    Brachiator

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Back to the point: Nothing in this history justifies Facebook’s cavalier attitude with their users’ data. Nothing.

    I repeat part of my comment 138.

    I have no problem with punishing FaceBook, whatever that means.

    I don’t justify FeceBook’s “cavalier attitude with their users’ data.” In fact I think other companies share their mindset. And I don’t see that mindset changing, or that governments can effectively rein it in.

  266. 266.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Brachiator: A single person *did* invent the ZIP format. He invented it to bypass the consent decree he signed after stealing Henderson’s software. Yes, it was better, but it was built on theft (and on encoding methods developed by Abraham Lempel and Jacob Ziv, among others, who didn’t make money from that.)

    Doesn’t matter, the format became a standard, Katz is long dead, other people (e.g Niko Mak) have made a good living from it.

  267. 267.

    different-church-lady

    @Gin & Tonic:

    1) I’ve always had tinfoil-hat tendencies

    i realize your tongue is in your cheek, but this is one of the frameworks that pisses me off the most about Facebook: a person with prudent sense of self-protective discretion is made to feel like a crank for not making a public display of their existence.

    Facebook deliberately engineered the peer-pressure so many people felt. Zuckerberg’s true genius lay in his instinctive understanding in how to socially manipulate people using technology. And that, in my view, makes him a sociopath on a grand scale.

  268. 268.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Brachiator:

    And I don’t see that mindset changing, or that governments can effectively rein it in.

    One of the things that’s most pernicious about the RaYgUn revolution is that it convince so many Americans that government regulation was toothless. This is false. Google was reined-in by their consent decree. All it would have taken, is for the FTC to proactively ensure that other tech companies were similarly hindered. At the time (2013) it was remarked that Facebook could do things in advertising that Google could not, b/c FB wasn’t bound by a similar consent decree. One might imagine that Congress could pass a law …..

  273. 273.

    different-church-lady

    @Brachiator: My point is IBM survived their missteps, and Compaq (as an independent company) did not. Sometimes it’s a fish-eat-fish world, and sometimes it’s just losing a set and winning the match.

  275. 275.

    Dev Null

    In the event that no one has posted this yet.

    Mueller has emails from Corsi to Stone about impending Wikileaks dumps…

    … two months before the dumps took place.

  277. 277.

    pluky

    @different-church-lady: 50% long time reader of dystopian science fiction, 50% I went to school with more than its fair share of vainglorious sociopaths like Zuckerberg to not immediately recognize the type.

  278. 278.

    different-church-lady

    @pluky:

    50% long time reader of dystopian science fiction…

    Honest to god I look at the tech headlines nowadays and think a bunch of Gen X’ers found a stash of dysptopian novels from the mid-cenutry and said, “Yeah, let’s TOTALLY make that happen!”

  280. 280.

    JR

    @Brachiator: What a load of shit. Imposing punishments on Facebook is no different than imposing punishments on Exxon. People still buy oil and people will still use the internet.

  281. 281.

    BrianM

    @Chetan Murthy: Dead thread, but Cassandra was pretty cool. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Cassandra The big companies did innovate around scale — they had to. One could argue whether React is more of an innovation or more of an inevitable development of UI, but it’s not insignificant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_(JavaScript_library)

    Facebook etc. may not be the Bell Labs or Xerox PARCs of today, but anything that big will inevitably spin off skunkworks or long-shot projects that turn out well.

    On net, we’d probably be better served with more and smaller companies with more than a single revenue model.

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