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Their freedom requires your slavery.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Republicans in disarray!

This chaos was totally avoidable.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

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We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Follow the Money

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Follow the Money

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Reader Interactions

181Comments

  1. 1.

    Mary G

    They probably think not having the employees will get them off having to answer the subpoenas. I hope the courts will dIsagree.

  4. 4.

    rikyrah

    Once again….see the forest in a defeat….
    Down ballot races matter!
    Hinds is the largest county in Mississippi.

    Tiffany M. Graves (@tiffmgraves) Tweeted:
    Women will dominate the Hinds County Chancery and Circuit Court benches by 3 to 1. All of the Hinds County Circuit Court judges will be African-American with the elections of Adrienne Hooper-Wooten and Faye Peterson tonight. They will join Judges Tommie Green and Winston Kidd.

    https://twitter.com/tiffmgraves/status/1067640250686734336?s=17

  8. 8.

    rikyrah

    Dad (@fivefifths) Tweeted:
    There won’t be a whole lot of pieces about them, but the 2018 election was definitely a story about young black organizers. From the 2017 Alabama special election until now they’ve been in neighborhoods where the parties don’t go, talking to potential voters parties don’t talk to

    https://twitter.com/fivefifths/status/1067641780907229184?s=17

    Dad (@fivefifths) Tweeted:
    I can’t quantify yet the magnitude of effect those efforts had this year on the polls exactly, but the effort alone is really dramatic departure from how politics is usually done, and is already changing the relationship between the parties and the black community https://twitter.com/fivefifths/status/1067642990322245633?s=17

  12. 12.

    Betty Cracker

    I hope whoever wins the Democratic Party nomination in 2020 will make Warren’s Accountable Capitalism Act a core part of their pitch, whether it’s Warren or someone else. Unlike a certain waggy-fingered curmudgeon who’s fond of flapping his gums about wealth inequality but offers little more than slogans to address it, Warren came up with a fully baked plan that gets to the root of the issue.

  15. 15.

    raven

    I went back to the neurologist yesterday after my GP informed me that the full report indicated that the MRI showed that I did have a stroke and that was probably why I had the peripheral double vision. I said to her “I assume you didn’t call me IMMEDIATELY was because this is not a huge deal”. She said yes. I see my ophthalmologist tomorrow but, for now, it’s low dose aspirin and statins.

  18. 18.

    Joey Maloney

    @rikyrah: From downstairs I posted – It’s not just that Cindy Hyde-Smith is a stone racist. She’s also a blithering idiot. So it does not surprise me that the same people who looked at Donald Trump and thought he would make a good President thought she would make a good Senator.

    BTW, it’s worth noting that until relatively recently, Mississippi elected a variety of not-racist-not-batshit-insane Democrats to statewide office. What made the difference was white flight from Memphis. It turned Desoto, the border county, from sparsely-populated rural to suburban and much whiter than the state as a whole. I used to live there and my town’s population increased tenfold between the 1990 and 2000 censuses. And they were all assholes.

  19. 19.

    Kay

    Aaron Blake
    ‏Verified account
    @AaronBlake
    Follow Follow @AaronBlake
    More
    Trump blames Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) for GM plant in Ohio closing.

    It still shocks me how he just lies blatantly and they let him get away with it. Trump said “well, it’s just one plant in Ohio”

    That isn’t true and they all know it isn’t true- it’s Ohio, Michigan and Maryland. Interviewing him or giving him any kind of platform is just spreading lies.

  20. 20.

    Chyron HR

    @rikyrah:

    Okay, guys. If your lives were destroyed by “corporate greed”, who are you going to vote for in 2020?

    “THE CORPORATIONS!”

    Of course.

  21. 21.

    Big Mango

    the charts in the Liz Warren article all point to the 1980s as the beginning of the screw the worker era….the GOP made Reagan a saint for reasons. Almost all the ills that plague our economy have roots in Reaganism

  22. 22.

    Immanentize

    Hello All.

    Sadly the Republicans are right — Contempt of Congress has no meaning unless the DOJ is willing to prosecute the contempt. Will Trump’s DOJ do so? Unlikely.

    The only alternative is to have the House Sergeant at Arms take the contemptuous person into custody in the House. That would be fun

  23. 23.

    Immanentize

    @raven: I’m glad it’s not serious, but I cannot believe they just thought, “Oh well, we’ll just maybe perhaps follow up sometime in the next few months….”. Grrrr.

  24. 24.

    Betty Cracker

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: NY Mag had an article on Sanders and his 2020 plans earlier this week. Gird your ears for more shouting; he is definitely running. He’s still playing coy (as are all of them), but it was pretty clear from the piece that he believes only he can save America from Trump.

    On the one hand, if he runs and gets obliterated in the primaries (he won’t be treated like a china doll this time around!), maybe that’ll be like lancing a persistent boil on the party’s butt. On the other hand, if we have a humongous field, his cult could form a plurality and win the nomination (much as Trump did), which would be disastrous, IMO.

  25. 25.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker: I’m not sure what I think of Warren running — she is my Senator and really ought to stay here…. But she is one person who could take Sanders out fast if she ran, whether she won or not. The Sanders diehards are Larouchers. Sane economic justice and equality folks would go to Warren. I will now predict the Sander’s people start bashing Warren on the Indian issue.

  26. 26.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @rikyrah: To be honest, I read about these moves months ago (not these specific plants but that GM and Ford (iirc) were no longer going to be making cars, just trucks and SUVs. One did not have to be Nostradamus to figure out that plants were going to close because of that.

    I do not recall if that was pre-tarriff or not but I doubt they played much of a part in the decision.

  29. 29.

    Kay

    @Chyron HR:

    They’ll turn on him though. The economy hits a bump and Trump’s (remaining) support is gone. He’ll be down to 27% in no time. And the economy will hit a bump, no matter what GM does or doesn’t do. Trump’s on borrowed time and it’s got nothing to do with Mueller. He hasn’t made any new supporters and his base has eroded. He didn’t bank any good will and he’ll need it- they all do. That’s what’s wrong with the “all base, all the time” approach. It’s narrow. It only leaves him one route.

  30. 30.

    raven

    @Immanentize: She was pretty sheepish but said that what she saw first WAS a preliminary report and the damage was really hard to see and away from the area that she would have expected.

  32. 32.

    Elizabelle

    @raven: FiDO, indeed. Low dose aspirin, and lots of fishing and Lil Bit and Bohdi (and the princess). One good thing about an episode like that; now they’re watching and preventing.

    Good morning, jackals.

  35. 35.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: Studies have shown that the brain is very adaptable and is capable of “rewiring” itself in some situations. Fingers crossed.

  36. 36.

    Betty Cracker

    @Immanentize: From a political standpoint, I’m not sure what I think of Warren running. I’m not convinced the Native American heritage thing would be a big obstacle, and I think Trump & Co. would pick a similar nothingburger about whoever is nominated to jeer about, so to my way of thinking, it shouldn’t be a factor. But folks who are smarter about politics than I am seem to think it would be a butter-emails-level liability, and maybe they’re right.

    I think Warren has a unique combination of folksiness and intelligence that would compare favorably to Trump’s idiotic bluster. Warren has a knack for explaining really complex issues in terms people can understand. And she fires up the base. But again, I don’t trust my own political instincts enough to extrapolate how her style might be received nationwide.

    However, politics aside, Warren has proposed bold ideas with substance behind them. That impresses me. I have no idea if it will impress other voters if she runs.

  37. 37.

    MazeDancer

    One runoff to go PostCard-wise. Gwen Collins-Greenup for Secretary of State in Louisiana. Fair elections are the foundation of change.

    Mike Espy fought valiantly. And he might have helped Hood get elected Gov next year.

    Get addresses for Gwen: PostCardPatriots.com

  38. 38.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Mary G:

    They probably think not having the employees will get them off having to answer the subpoenas. I hope the courts will dIsagree.

    No, they just don’t care because they never were going to respond to any “Democrat Subopenas,” court orders be damned.

  39. 39.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    That’s true as far as it goes but it’s also not the whole story. The second part is this:

    General Motors’ hot new SUV will be made in Mexico.
    The rebooted Chevrolet Blazer is part of GM’s attempt to make SUVs in all shapes and sizes to quench Americans’ insatiable thirst for big cars. The Blazer is bigger than an Equinox but smaller than a Traverse.

    They never mention that they’re also moving production of SUV’s to Mexico. The GM workers, of course, know that. They’re using the switch, the new focus, to move production out of the country – and that was incentivized by Trump’s tax law.

    Trump’s betrayal of these people is complete- NOTHING he did benefited them in any way- not the tariffs, not the tax law.

    But Ohio voted GOP again in ’18 so I don’t plan to spend a whole lot of time and energy worrying about them. These aren’t Federalist Society members. Trump’s far Right justices aren’t a consolation prize. They got NOTHING, but unlike some voters in other states, they voted for him again in 2018. Hopeless. A waste of time.

  40. 40.

    NotMax

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    Leaked memo from the White House maintenance office:

    “Completed tracking down the source of that whooshing sound in the Oval Office we’ve received complaints about. It’s the buck not stopping.”

  42. 42.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

    That’s what’s wrong with the “all base, all the time” approach. It’s narrow. It only leaves him one route.

    And the whole GOP has followed him in that.

  43. 43.

    satby

    @raven: Considering how bad it could have been, glad it wasn’t. They used to not even catch “ministrokes” as they called them until a larger one put other episodes in perspective. So, progress ? sort of, because now you can get the care and follow up to prevent a worse one. But that information was handled poorly.

  44. 44.

    debbie

    @raven:

    Sorry to hear this, but I know you’ll follow doctor’s orders. Sadly, there are things that will happen as we age. :(

    I used to get small TIAs back in the 1980s which were misdiagnosed as anxiety attacks. It turned out to be a blood/autoimmune thing which I guess they couldn’t test for when I was first getting them. I’ve been on warfarin since 1997 and haven’t had an “episode” since.

  45. 45.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: The tax law incentivized all kinds of bad behavior in corporate America. But then corporate law has long been a blackhole of greed so I am not in the least surprised by that.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    What’s the feds fault? That the economy is inexorably and inevitably slowing? :)

    He knows he’s screwed if the economy tanks. He’s a mean-spirited asshole who has no supporters outside his insane base and he sure hasn’t made any new ones! Sherrod Brown is running for President. He’ll spend the next two years telling those people Trump’s tax law caused GM to move production to Mexico and he won’t be wrong.

  49. 49.

    JR

    @Amir Khalid: Technically “sedan” is french and refers to a type of litter.

    But the answer is yes; sedans have been completely overtaken by “crossovers” which sit higher off the ground and have a larger cargo capacity.

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    @satby

    Mind if I seek your opinion on something?

    Saw this pendant and thought it looked attractive enough (and neither flashy nor overly formal) to buy for Mom for the holidays – amethyst is her birthstone. I have zero experience when it comes to jewelry and how things like this might compare IRL as opposed to a picture on the net and would appreciate it if you have any opinion one way or the other.

    Any feedback from others also welcome.

    Not expecting it to be the Star of India or anything like that, and also that the size will be modest.

  55. 55.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Betty Cracker: the primaries have a way of sorting that out. If there are solutions to political vulnerabilities (e.g., Jeremiah Wright, Gennifer with a G), people find them. If there aren’t (the Monkey Business, the complete lack of charisma of O’Malley/Richardson/Dodd/Graham/Babbitt), obviously bad candidates get filtered out. And Democratic primaries are much more brutal than they were in the 80s and even the 90s, so long as you aren’t some doddering fool whose supporters are being courted vainly.

    There are talented enough candidates in the pool that even with a broad field, I don’t think we wind up with a bum.

  56. 56.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It’s kind of interesting he’s attacking Sherrod Brown. It’s good! If Brown’s running for President he should be as high-profile and attack-able as Elizabeth Warren so we can see how he does. She’s already been savaged for years. Brown will have an advantage in the GM fight with Trump because Brown just focuses on Ohio and he can spend all his time blaming Trump here.

  58. 58.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Kay: What? You expect Trump to take any responsibility for any problems? It’s always somebody else’s fault. The only thing he did say is that he made a mistake appointing that Fed Chairman. And he knows the economy is OK cause that’s what his gut* tells him.

    *I hear that Colbert’s lawyers are working on the lawsuit as we speak. //

  64. 64.

    JR

    @OzarkHillbilly: They don’t even use it for rats since the onset of death is too slow, giving the rats the time to crawl behind your walls and die somewhere they can rot for a prolonged period of time.

  65. 65.

    debbie

    @rikyrah:

    From their “perspective” (i.e., delusions), she used her heritage to get special treatment. You know how that goes over with conservatives.

  68. 68.

    Kay

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    It makes him look naive. He really thought those companies would take his huge tax break and use it to “invest in American jobs”? They used him as much as he used those GM workers. He’s a half-assed real estate developer who doesn’t have any idea how any of this works, and they took him to the cleaners. Every single newspaper article in Ohio includes that GM (still) assembles the Cruz in Mexico and they’re moving SUV production there. They understand the car business- Trump doesn’t.

  69. 69.

    rikyrah

    @debbie:
    I guess I look at it from my Black professional female perspective. Her employer says that she didn’t, and they would know.
    I think that non-Whites look at this differently.

  73. 73.

    debbie

    @rikyrah:

    It’s a smear is what it is. It’s what they’ve done to Democrats for decades. Non-Whites would look at it differently because they’ve been treated the same.

  74. 74.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:
    Naive?
    Kay, phuck Outta Here ? ?

    He is stupid. Period.
    And, he doesn’t care.
    Naive rubs me the wrong way. Don’t give him any benefit of the doubt. He hasn’t earned it.

  75. 75.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Well, yeah, devil spawn, etc., etc. I just can’t imagine what Trump’s syphillitic imagination has cooked up for this argument.

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Well, my daughter is a medical professional and she talks about “mini strokes” all the time. I think they got better at detecting them so they identify them now when they’re less profound, where before we just didn’t know that’s what they were.

    I think what raven is describing is a real thing and maybe a more detailed diagnosis rather than a cavalier or sloppy one.

  79. 79.

    rikyrah

    @Betty Cracker:
    We will weed him out. There are four big contests early… outside of New Hampshire, what will he win?

    Don’t forget… California is moved up in 2020.
    It’s time to lay waste to that muthaphucka.??

  81. 81.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    On a “nonsense” basis? :)

    He blathered something about how Sherrod didn’t yell at GM enough. Its his usual bullshit. You know, off the cuff and desperate because he doesn’t know anything. Sherrod camps in Ohio. He goes to all 88 counties over and over. Trump can’t beat him in an argument here. Sherrod can blanket this state in the same way Trump blankets national media.

  83. 83.

    Betty Cracker

    @rikyrah: True — and Warren’s former employers debunked the “affirmative action” angle completely, with contemporaneous notes and everything. Now, that won’t mean jackshit to the MAGA choads, of course, but will the MSM media run with a completely debunked smear? After the butter-emails thing, it’s hard to have confidence that they won’t.

  84. 84.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    He goes to all 88 counties over and over.

    Unlike Rob Portman, who is never seen and only issues statements from on high. //

    Sherrod should use his constant contact with constituents as a plus to his candidacy. Bet most people in this country would be surprised to know this.

  88. 88.

    SFAW

    @raven:

    Glad to hear you’re more-or-less OK. On the plus side — if you still have your double vision — you get to see twice as many of your bride.

    Best wishes for no additional negative effects, and nothing but good going forward.

  92. 92.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: I like Sherrod Brown, and I also like his wife. Don’t know what I think of him as a presidential candidate yet, but if the country is in a recession by the time 2020 rolls around (and it very well could be), I could see a guy like Brown tearing Trump to pieces. Unlike fake populist Trump, Brown has advocated for working people his entire career.

  94. 94.

    MomSense

    @Big Mango:

    I know! I still hate that shoe polish haired devil! I remember losing most of my peers to his bullshit. Most of them are still under his thrall. We have suffered blowback of every kind because of Reagan policies. He fucked education, taxes, the MIDDLE CLASS, manufacturing, foreign policy, the environment, green energy, EVERYTHING.

  97. 97.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @JR: I can still find it. The poison/bait also makes them very thirsty, which drives them outside in search of water. If a rat is crawling into the walls and dying it is because the rat got too much of the poison and not enough of the other stuff. I don’t like using it because of the downstream effects in the food chain. Still if I get a rat (and I do from time to time) I go straight for it

    ETA it occurs to me that in more northern climes during winter, a rat may refuse to go outside in search of water because it is all frozen. We get bouts of deep freeze but flowing water is not too distant and rarely freezes over.

  98. 98.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    I actually called him once for help. My middle son had gone to France to escape a misdemeanor warrant, not knowing that he could have just gone outside this county because it’s a misdemeanor – he could have escaped 20 miles and no one would bother picking him up- but he was completely insane when he was 20 or so an this seemed like a good idea to him- an escape to FRANCE- and I couldn’t find him and was just panicking. Brown’s office was very nice but adults have civil rights and he’s allowed to leave the country so they wouldn’t track him down for me. I found him :)

    Imagine the calls they get. Mine might not have even been the weirdest that week.

  99. 99.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    Imagine the calls they get. Mine might not have even been the weirdest that week.

    Well, we are talking about Buckeyes
 . ;)

  100. 100.

    MomSense

    @raven:

    I’m sorry that happened to you. Please make sure you are getting good advice about medication and other stroke prevention options.

  101. 101.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @debbie: Argument? trump’s tiny brain can’t formulate arguments, cohesive or otherwise. His brain stops at accusation. As far as he’s concerned that’s all that’s needed.

  103. 103.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: A transient ischemic attack (TIA) is the preferred nomenclature

    A tia is like a stroke, producing similar symptoms, but usually lasting only a few minutes and causing no permanent damage.

    Often called a ministroke, a transient ischemic attack may be a warning. About 1 in 3 people who have a transient ischemic attack will eventually have a stroke, with about half occurring within a year after the transient ischemic attack.

    A transient ischemic attack can serve as both a warning and an opportunity — a warning of an impending stroke and an opportunity to take steps to prevent it.

    Until I read this just now I did not know the damage from a tia was not permanent.

  104. 104.

    danielx

    White House lacks lawyers to deal with empowered Democratshttps://t.co/puzqiJLYQr via @CurrentStatus

    — Matt Kiser (@Matt_Kiser) November 26, 2018

    Not likely to find many either, considering Hair Furor’s record in paying his attorneys.

  106. 106.

    Haroldo

    @Haroldo:

    I’m an idiot: Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation is the basis for the Warfarin name – not Association.

    (lack of coffee….maybe)

  107. 107.

    NotMax

    @OzarkHillbilly

    Once each year, in the dry season, am ‘entertained’ by the sound of a rat (and it is, thankfully, always just one) scrabbling about. Don’t know what the active ingredient is in it but have found the poison pellets which come in a paper pouch (which one places out unopened) works very well and quickly, usually taking only a day or two.

    Norway rats – big suckers. No idea how it gets in or out.

  108. 108.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    I like Brown and Schultz very much. I met them volunteering at a fundraiser for Tom Allen’s failed attempt to unseat Collins and we talked about Ohio since my mom and that side of my family are all buckeyes. Why oh why o did I ever leave Ohio was a song my grandma loved to sing to irritate my mom whenever anything went wrong. Anyway, I’m not sure how I feel about him as a presidential candidate. I do not agree with him at all when it comes to trade and manufacturing. I have the same issue with Warren.

  110. 110.

    raven

    @MomSense: That’s funny isn’t it? There is nothing you can’t get differing opinions about. Google statins and you’ll see able to fond negative information. I’m biased because standard western medicine has been really good to me and I tend to do what I’m told by my doctor(s). Next week I’ll be fishing with a buddy from Bezerkely and his son is and alternative medicine doctor in the Bay Area. I’,m sure I’m going to get an earful about what I should and should not do.

  111. 111.

    Skepticat

    @Betty Cracker:

    Warren came up with a fully baked plan that gets to the root of the issue.

    This is what this country needs from a lot more people on a lot more levels. However, I don’t see it happening anytime soon. Nevertheless, we can support those few who do and hope the sanity spreads.

  112. 112.

    Betty

    @Betty Cracker: I agree with your take, and I don’t see how the “Indian” thing can be a big deal. She believed her family story as did her Republican brothers, So what. I really like the way she can communicate on important issues that affect people directly. The criticism I have seen on media is that she is school marmish. I would take that over glitz and glamour, but that’s just me.

  113. 113.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

    Mine might not have even been the weirdest that week.

    I guarantee that. Alderman/city councilmen get the really weird calls.

  114. 114.

    Elizabelle

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yes. TIA is the name I am familiar with.

    And watch out for them. My mom finally had a fairly major stroke, and, in the aftermath, we realized she’d been having TIAs for some time, which went unnoticed by us (as mini-strokes; we thought it was just more odd behavior from her). And some seniors are not necessarily that motivated (or have the memory and records necessary) to report accurately to their doctors.

  116. 116.

    Betty Cracker

    @MomSense: Yep. That phony shit-stain was president when I graduated from high school, and he’s been a blight on the country for just as long. It’s painful to imagine how different life would have been for so many millions of people had he fallen off a cliff in the 1970s.

  117. 117.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @raven: That’s scary. Now that they know, though, they’ll do whatever they can and everyone is prepared. Baby aspirin and statins sound like a good start.

    @Amir Khalid: All I can tell you is I drive a small SUV (a Subaru crosstrek) because with it, I can get around in the deep snow we get in the upper Midwest.

  118. 118.

    Platonailedit

    Cutting off your nose to spite your face the other comes at cost.

    The UK will be poorer economically under any form of Brexit, compared with staying in the EU, Treasury analysis suggests.

    Official figures say the UK economy could be up to 3.9% smaller after 15 years under Theresa May’s Brexit plan, compared with staying in the EU.

    But a no-deal Brexit could deliver a 9.3% hit, the new estimates say.

    The Treasury estimates do not put a cash figure on the potential impact on the economy, but independent experts have said that 3.9% of GDP would equate to around ÂŁ100bn a year by the 2030s.

  119. 119.

    MomSense

    @raven:

    I hear you about statins. I’ve given up practically all the foods to try to avoid taking them. I have known people who have taken meds for clotting though and that seems to have helped.

  121. 121.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @NotMax: In our 8 years here I’ve had one show up in my shop 3 times. I am not real close to any agriculture so it kind of surprises me. They are pretty good at hiding and there are plenty of nooks and crannies for them to get into out there. I find their droppings before I see them. Turned the lights on once and spotted an 8-9 incher (foot plus with the tail) crawling up the wall about 5 feet from me. Got a serious case of the willies. I grew up on tales of the rats in the Northern Marianas during WWII, my old man waking up eye ball to eye ball with one and then getting bit on his somewhat prodigious nose.

  122. 122.

    MomSense

    @Betty:

    We suffered how many years of emails and Benghazi? It will be a big thing. It’s a “scandal” that is so easy to understand that it makes it perfect for the media and the GOP to weaponize.

  124. 124.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: I’ve been on statins for awhile. I don’t worry about it. Like you, I do what my RN/P says and just figure I gotta die of something.

  127. 127.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @MomSense:

    He fucked education, taxes, the MIDDLE CLASS, manufacturing, foreign policy, the environment, green energy, EVERYTHING.

    Agreed. That’s when state and local governments started slowly starving to death and cutting back on, for example, public library paid employees and opening hours.

    But while screwing over everybody, he won 49/50 states for reelection in 1984. And his election in 1980 was only 6 short years after we kicked Nixon out, while I was still feeling the glow of the success of the hippies. I’m still reeling from the backlash.

  128. 128.

    khead

    @Kay:

    They’ll turn on him though. The economy hits a bump and Trump’s (remaining) support is gone. He’ll be down to 27% in no time. And the economy will hit a bump, no matter what GM does or doesn’t do.

    I dunno. Not saying you are wrong that it will happen eventually – just that it might take quite a while. A quick survey of the wingnuts on my FB feed suggests they are mad at GM right now.

  129. 129.

    MomSense

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    I know. It’s inconceivable to me that anyone could vote for a Republican after Agnew and Nixon until people could vote for a Republican after W. I mean what the actual fuck?! Racism and fear/hatred of the other is a powerful drug.

  131. 131.

    rikyrah

    This is from the overnight thread.

    Funny how “the Democrats will overreach” goes from conventional media wisdom to a Republican strategy in two weeks. pic.twitter.com/8KhJ55F548

    — Schooley (@Rschooley) November 26, 2018

    Phuck outta here.

    Investigate every phucking thing.
    Period.

  132. 132.

    Betty Cracker

    @MomSense: Maybe. But perhaps it’s more akin to the birther nonsense, which the wingnuts glommed onto but sane people dismissed and the MSM treated as a dumb sideshow. I mean, MSM outlets ran stories about the birther lunacy, but the non-Fox outlets didn’t treat it as a serious question, whether President Obama was a legit U.S. citizen or not. Benghazi and (especially) emails were complicated enough that the Beltway media could use it to conduct “analysis” in the vain hope that they’d appear evenhanded to wingnuts. I don’t think Warren’s heritage is all that complicated, but maybe I’m wrong.

  133. 133.

    MomSense

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think the difference is that Obama was able to establish his narrative a good 4 years before the birther nonsense began. His 2004 speech got yuge ratings and then he followed it up with tons of press immediately. Warren has similar star power but it’s not as widespread. I also think that if social media had been more weaponized in 2007 we wouldn’t have had a President Obama. We were still largely dealing with those chain emails from that crazy uncle then. He didn’t face in 2008 what we dealt with in 2016. Even 2012 was tame by comparison. I have zero confidence that Facebook or twitter will be able to (not sure they want to!) put that genie back in the bottle.

  134. 134.

    Daniel'sBob

    @OzarkHillbilly: My Dad was in New Guinea during the war. One of his stories was about a rat infested lumber pile on the base that they doused with diesel fuel and torched. “Hundreds” of flaming rats fled the pile into the jungle, according to him.
    When I was in high school I helped shell corn a few times on classmates’ farms. That was back in the days when most corn was still stored on the ear in cribs. The primary task was to control the flow of ears out of the crib into a conveyor with a scoop shovel–fast enough to keep the conveyor full but not overflow. Secondary–but still important–task was to smack fleeing rats with the back of the shovel without losing control of the flow. Took a bit of practice.

  135. 135.

    Yarrow

    @Betty Cracker: I like Elizabeth Warren but hope she stays in the Senate. We need great Senators and I think her skills are best for that venue. I like her policy proposals but I’m not totally convinced about her political instincts and skills. She’s a good fit for MA but I don’t think she will be as good in the rest of the country.

    I thought her handling of her Native American ancestry issue wasn’t great. I can’t remember now what else was going on but she released the video at a bad time for Democrats and took attention away from something else that was happening. I didn’t get the impression that she consulted with tribal leaders about her family history and claims. It would have been a good opportunity to include them and help make their story part of the overall story. People claiming Native American heritage is part of the story of America but rarely do you hear it from the NA side. From what I read NAs avoid having DNA testing because they are wary of it being used against them, so even using that methodology to “prove” her ancestry has problems.

    All of that added up to missed opportunities and showed not great political instincts for things that aren’t her strengths. I think that will be a problem for her in a nationwide race.

  137. 137.

    Matt McIrvin

    @khead: GM was already a villain for them because they’d accepted a government bailout from Obama–they called it “Government Motors”. There was a big rush to switch to Ford loyalty. So GM is probably an easy scapegoat at this point.

  138. 138.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MomSense:

    I have zero confidence that Facebook or twitter will be able to (not sure they want to!) put that genie back in the bottle.

    Whether they want to or not, the Europeans are gonna hammer it back in.

  139. 139.

    Yarrow

    @MomSense: Completely agree. And even her video that was supposed to answer the issue once and for all didn’t do that. The tribal leaders weren’t happy and it sure didn’t make the “Pocahontas” slur or chant go away.

  142. 142.

    rikyrah

    @Yarrow:

    It was also in the middle of the North Dakota disenfranchisement of the Native American community. She should have taken that time to point out the Voter Suppression.

    There wasn’t a lot of ‘thought’ in her reveal. It could have been done better.
    But, I still could care less about her 23 and me journey.

  143. 143.

    Yarrow

    @rikyrah: I personally don’t care about it either. I do care about the people who are more affected by it, the Native Americans. If they’re unhappy about it then I think she handled it poorly. That’s what I’m going by. That and her poor timing that was all about her and didn’t recognize that her releasing that video at that time could affect Democrats in general. That’s why I’m not that excited about her political instincts. Those were two dumb moves.

    I really like her as a Senator and I think we don’t recognize enough that strong Senators are important. I would like her to continue being a great Senator from MA.

  144. 144.

    Ruckus

    Trump ran the entirety of the final stretch of the midterm campaign on his cruel and bigoted immigration agenda and it was rejected by voters. It is a political loser. He is on the wrong side of the issue.

    Chris, that is the entirety of his policy agenda is why he ran on that. And who knew that a massive racist ass would be on the wrong side of humanity?

  146. 146.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Yarrow: Yeah, if someone is a good senator, they suddenly make the they should run for president list. Different skill sets. And we need good people in both places.

  147. 147.

    rikyrah

    Why Trump’s threats of retaliation against GM ring hollow
    11/28/18 08:40 AM
    By Steve Benen

    Donald Trump’s assurances about growth in the auto industry looked quite foolish this week when General Motors announced plans to shutter three assembly plants and two other facilities, while eliminating an estimated 14,700 jobs. The president has decided to respond with a series of threats.

    In one interview this week, Trump said he told GM’s Mary Barra, “You’re playing around with the wrong person.” Referring to a plant in Ohio, the president claims to have added, “It’s not going to be closed for long, I hope, Mary, because if it is you’ve got a problem.”

    Yesterday, the oblique threats became more explicit.

    ……………..
    As Emily Stewart explained, the White House can’t unilaterally punish one company and it also can’t change federal tax law without congressional action. The president may be prepared to scrap the electric-car tax credit, but there’s no evidence of lawmakers having any comparable plans.

    Indeed, there was some talk during last year’s fight on taxes about scrapping this tax credit, but Republicans ultimately backed off and left the current policy in place.

    All of which suggests Trump is saber rattling, but may not be able to follow through, even if he wants to.

    Postscript: As we discussed yesterday, the fact that the president is threatening a private company over its business decisions used to be the sort of thing condemned by the right as “gangster government.” Apparently, those concerns have disappeared.

  148. 148.

    rikyrah

    Projection always with this muthaphucka.

    Trump just retweeted an image that said Rod Rosenstein, his own deputy Attorney General, and many others should be tried for treason.

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 28, 2018

  150. 150.

    tobie

    @Yarrow: Warren is at her best at Senate hearings. Her knowledge of the financial industry is deep and shines through. The tweet at the top of the post, by contrast, shows her at her worst. It’s amazing to me how similar the populism of the left and the right are when it comes to trade. Identify a bogeyman and make that bogeyman the enemy of the people. Yes, it sucks that GM is closing plants and that its stock prices soar at the same time. But the reason GM is closing its plants is because of (a) the removal of all CAFE standards and (b) Trump’s trade wars. Warren and Sherrod Brown can’t point that out because they are as strongly protectionist and tariff-friendly as Trump. I don’t want either as President.

  151. 151.

    Yarrow

    Has this made it over here yet?

    Eight People Are Facing Charges As A Result Of The FBI’s Biggest-Ever Ad Fraud Investigation

    The men are facing 13 charges for allegedly running a sophisticated global ad fraud scheme.

    It’s all related.

  152. 152.

    schrodingers_cat

    @tobie: Word. Sherrod Brown has been all in on the tariffs and has made statements on his official website and in the press supporting them. The problem is not trade or immigrants. The problem is that the playing field is not level and the benefits of trade have gone to the top .1%

  153. 153.

    cmorenc

    @Betty Cracker:

    However, politics aside, Warren has proposed bold ideas with substance behind them. That impresses me. I have no idea if it will impress other voters if she runs.

    Yes, but how to reach voters with those persuasive bold ideas when the MSM once again fixates on horse-race coverage? Consider how relentlessly the MSM coverage focused on the “blue wave – will it be real or fizzle?” coverage in the 2018 mid-terms, despite the fact that the most frequently cited concern by voters was health care. How much did we hear about bold ideas for health care during the MSM runup to Nov 2018? To the extent there was any, it was fleeting mentions folded into the larger dominant horse-race narrative.

  154. 154.

    rikyrah

    @Yarrow:

    I know. I was lingering all over the internet last night, reading opinions of lawyers and other folks following this, about the happenings of the past couple of days, and they were like, we can’t overstate the magnitude of the dots connected that have just superficially been revealed.

  155. 155.

    Ruckus

    @raven:
    Damn. I was hoping that it wasn’t true. At least they found it and are working on keeping it from happening again.
    @Betty Cracker:
    Prevention is what they can do after the fact. They put raven on the medication course that I’ve been on for 6 yrs. My neuro thought I had what is known as a TIA, a minor stroke a year and a half ago. I went through the entire gambit of cardio/MRI looking for evidence and was cleared so now the incident that caused the neuro’s concern no longer maters, according to him. He’s not good. I’m trying to figure what to do about that.

  156. 156.

    tobie

    @schrodingers_cat: Indeed. That’s why Warren’s and Brown’s tweets on the GM plant closures are no different than Trump’s. Tariffs on steel and aluminum have made it more profitable to manufacture light-weight vehicles abroad. And companies won’t invest in their employees if there’s no tax incentive for them to do so. That’s the perversity of corporate tax cuts in a nutshell. Why put the tax savings into healthcare plans, daycare, and pensions when you can give those savings to shareholders without penalty?

  158. 158.

    catclub

    @rikyrah: turnout for the special election was exactly as high as the turnout for the general election on Nov 6.
    and as you noted, Espy did the best any Democrat has done for a senate seat in a long time.

  159. 159.

    Yarrow

    @raven: Sorry to hear that, Raven. As you said, at least you have a reason now and a treatment plan. It’s hard when you know something’s wrong but no one can tell you what the problem is. Silver lining, I guess.

  160. 160.

    Gelfling 545

    @Immanentize: Seriously. My doctor is on the phone if my cholesterol level rises a bit or my iron level drops a few points. A stroke? No big deal? Second opinion time.

  162. 162.

    catclub

    @khead: The economy kind of hit a bump in 2008 and McCain still got 45% of the vote.
    So I am not optimistic that there will be a huge repudiation.

  163. 163.

    Miss Bianca

    @rikyrah: Yep. That’s why I wasn’t cast down by Dem defeats in FL and GA and TX. Because coattails, baby! Judges and state legislatures! Abrams and O’Rourke and Gillum did us all a solid just ny running. so did Espy.

  165. 165.

    rikyrah

    @catclub:

    @khead: The economy kind of hit a bump in 2008 and McCain still got 45% of the vote.

    but, McCain was a War Hero. Generic White Male Republican.

    He wasn’t a ‘businessman’.
    That superstar businessman.
    Dolt45 has put himself out as that.
    You can’t run during an economic downturn that YOU CAUSED, as a brilliant businessman.

  166. 166.

    Gravenstone

    @debbie: He never cared what the job entailed. He simply saw it as an elevated means to get more Trump-centric grifting and adulation. Much to his surprise (and our woe), he won the damned thing and has been rampaging ever since.

  167. 167.

    Yarrow

    @rikyrah: Exactly. I’m totally energized by this year’s election results. Lots of downticket races won. Lots of up and coming Dems. Lots of organized Dems, particularly women and POC, who are not letting up and will keep writing, calling and volunteering in other ways. So much good news.

  168. 168.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Yarrow: T’s rhetoric against immigrants is also motivating many permanent residents to get off the sidelines and apply for citizenship to participate more fully in the government and politics of the country that is their home.

  169. 169.

    The Moar You Know

    I thought her handling of her Native American ancestry issue wasn’t great. I can’t remember now what else was going on but she released the video at a bad time for Democrats and took attention away from something else that was happening. I didn’t get the impression that she consulted with tribal leaders about her family history and claims. It would have been a good opportunity to include them and help make their story part of the overall story. People claiming Native American heritage is part of the story of America but rarely do you hear it from the NA side. From what I read NAs avoid having DNA testing because they are wary of it being used against them, so even using that methodology to “prove” her ancestry has problems.

    @Yarrow: That is an understatement. A former girlfriend of mine was half-Native, her dad full. Not raised on the rez. (what I just said means a ton to Natives and nothing to anyone else). Native politics are a fucking landmine that non-Natives will get eaten alive in. Warren handled this in just about the worst way possible, from their perspective.

    From my perspective, as a non-native, that she allowed Trump to bait her into a genetic test, and releasing results of said test, told me all I need to know about her fitness for any other office other than the one she currently holds; she isn’t. If Donald Fucking Trump can get under your skin and provoke you into any course of action you’re not fit to lead.

    I frankly would like very much for her to stay in the Senate. She’s good there.

    ETA: some suggested that a tribe “adopt” her to put all the “Pocahontas” bullshit to rest. You may not realize that this is a grossly insulting suggestion; tribal membership is the heart of Native identity and is not to be handed out like Halloween candy. Or as political favors. Especially political favors for white people who are not in any way members of the tribe.

  171. 171.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yay Rice! Go Owls! Still remember freshman year when Rice beat TX A&M 7 to 6 and knocked A&M out of top rank. (That was when Rice was a major football power in the Southwest conference–we were in 3 bowl games my 4 yrs there–graduated in 61. ETA I believe Bear Bryant was coaching A&M that year.)

  176. 176.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @cmorenc: IIRC it was on PBS Newhour post 88? election that the nonBrooks guy was moaning that ‘maybe there was too much focus on the horse race and not enough on substance’. I just sat there stunned and then started yelling at the nutjob — YOU were the ones who did that!! Change your methods!!

  177. 177.

    J R in WV

    @NotMax:

    The amethyst stone is 10mm x 8mm (aka one cm long) from the fine print – which is just less than a half inch, as an inch is about 2.5 cm. It looks like a nice stone, if they’re consistent. The picture is probably not the stone you will receive.

  181. 181.

    satby

    @NotMax: hey, sorry! Had to work at the Drs. Office today, but answered in the night thread here.
    Looks very lovely, and a nice price, especially since it comes with two chains for wearing with different necklines of clothing. Good choice!

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