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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Witness tamper much?

Witness tamper much?

by Betty Cracker|  December 3, 20181:22 pm| 270 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Politics, Republican Stupidity, Assholes, General Stupidity

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Trump on Twitter* earlier today:

“Michael Cohen asks judge for no Prison Time.” You mean he can do all of the TERRIBLE, unrelated to Trump, things having to do with fraud, big loans, Taxis, etc., and not serve a long prison term? He makes up stories to get a GREAT & ALREADY reduced deal for himself, and get…..

….his wife and father-in-law (who has the money?) off Scott Free. He lied for this outcome and should, in my opinion, serve a full and complete sentence.

“I will never testify against Trump.” This statement was recently made by Roger Stone, essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about “President Trump.” Nice to know that some people still have “guts!”

Bob Mueller (who is a much different man than people think) and his out of control band of Angry Democrats, don’t want the truth, they only want lies. The truth is very bad for their mission!

Of course, Cohen once said he’d “take a bullet” for Trump, and Trump was singing a different tune about Cohen in April 2018:

The New York Times and a third rate reporter named Maggie Haberman, known as a Crooked H flunkie who I don’t speak to and have nothing to do with, are going out of their way to destroy Michael Cohen and his relationship with me in the hope that he will “flip.” They use….

….non-existent “sources” and a drunk/drugged up loser who hates Michael, a fine person with a wonderful family. Michael is a businessman for his own account/lawyer who I have always liked & respected. Most people will flip if the Government lets them out of trouble, even if….

….it means lying or making up stories. Sorry, I don’t see Michael doing that despite the horrible Witch Hunt and the dishonest media!

Maybe Trump’s luck will run out with Stone too, if Stone decides his super-villain shtick won’t fly in prison. But here’s my question: isn’t it at least legally…murky for an official with the power to commute sentences and pardon people to so openly telegraph his instructions in a case that directly affects himself? Or is this yet another of those scenarios in which we used to rely on common decency and/or political consequences to regulate behavior until — oops! — they no longer do?

*Continuing my practice of not embedding Trump’s tweets so you won’t have to look at his hideous mug on this page. You’re welcome.

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Reader Interactions

270Comments

  1. 1.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 1:25 pm

    So, who do we think got indicted?

  2. 2.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 1:27 pm

    Maybe Trump’s luck will run out with Stone too, if Stone decides his super-villain shtick won’t fly in prison.

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔
    @realDonaldTrump
    “I will never testify against Trump.” This statement was recently made by Roger Stone, essentially stating that he will not be forced by a rogue and out of control prosecutor to make up lies and stories about “President Trump.” Nice to know that some people still have “guts!”

    32K
    5:48 AM – Dec 3, 2018

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔
    @realDonaldTrump
    Bob Mueller (who is a much different man than people think) and his out of control band of Angry Democrats, don’t want the truth, they only want lies. The truth is very bad for their mission!

    33K
    5:56 AM – Dec 3, 2018

    Magic 8 ball says: Forecast Uncertain.

  3. 3.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 1:27 pm

    @LAO:

    UDAY, QUSAY AND JARED :)

  4. 4.

    dmsilev

    December 3, 2018 at 1:28 pm

    @LAO: All of them, Katie.

  5. 5.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    isn’t it at least legally…murky for an official with the power to commute sentences and pardon people to so openly telegraph his instructions in a case that directly affects himself? Or is this yet another of those scenarios in which we used to rely on common decency and/or political consequences to regulate behavior until — oops! — they no longer do?

    Yes to both. This is one of those “Has never been decided by the Supreme Court because nobody thought this was ever gonna happen” things.

  6. 6.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    @rikyrah: @dmsilev: If only.

  7. 7.

    Mike in NC

    December 3, 2018 at 1:33 pm

    Betty, we appreciate not seeing his bloated ugly mug, which closely resembles a rotten pumpkin I tossed in the trash last week.

  8. 8.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 1:33 pm

    This short piece Donald Trump is witness tampering again , pretty much sums up my feelings.

  9. 9.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    December 3, 2018 at 1:34 pm

    Somewhere in the D.C. area, a special counsel is furiously scribbling notes in response to the Twitter excretions of a Russian stooge president*.

  10. 10.

    MattF

    December 3, 2018 at 1:38 pm

    It’s all very murky at this point. The Russian media unanimously pulling back from Trump makes me think that Putin’s entourage is involved. But we shall see.

  11. 11.

    Jeffro

    December 3, 2018 at 1:40 pm

    Bob Mueller is “a much different man than people think” may be the first true thing that the Mango Menace has tweeted in, well, ever. I thought Mueller was just a tough prosecutor, but now it appears that he also has the patience and restraint of superhuman proportions. Much different!

    You know, when I first said about two years ago that Mueller would eventually drop “hundreds of charges against dozens of people”, I thought they would be a little more evenly distributed – a dozen or two dozen chargers for each of those individuals. Now I am beginning to think it will still be dozens of people, but one of them – let’s call him Individual 1 – is going to rack up a couple hundred charges of obstruction and witness tampering all by his widdle wonesome self.

  12. 12.

    feebog

    December 3, 2018 at 1:43 pm

    Definitely gunna be a hell of an infrastructure week.

  13. 13.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    @LAO:

    UH HUH
    UH HUH

  14. 14.

    HeleninEire

    December 3, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    So as a New Yorker I’ve spent the last year and a half saying “Nah, he’s always been like this” whenever one of you says “he’s getting worse, he’s losing it”

    I take it all back. He’s getting worse, he’s losing it.

  15. 15.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    @feebog:

    Definitely gunna be a hell of an infrastructure week.

    I had to LOL at just the phrase ‘infrastructure week’.
    I don’t even know how it started.

  16. 16.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    @LAO: The only person to escape indictment is going to be Scott Free.

  17. 17.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    @rikyrah:

    I don’t even know how it started.

    Back at the start of May 2017. Back when Trump was making big bold promises to work with Democrats on Infrastructure.

  18. 18.

    Raven

    December 3, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    @Jeffro: He’s been in the shit, this is nuthin.

  19. 19.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 1:47 pm

    @JPL:

    Mueller can't finalize his report if Trump never stops committing crimes.— Richard (@renuvian) December 3, 2018

  20. 20.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 3, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    his wife and father-in-law (who has the money?) off Scott Free

    There’s that weird capitalization again. Coincidentally, that’s pretty close to the name of an antagonist I’m writing. Weird.

  21. 21.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    December 3, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    @LAO: Perhaps that’s his strategy!

    I kid. Individual 1 doesn’t know the meaning of the word “strategy”.

  22. 22.

    sukabi

    December 3, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    While Stone is publicly trolling FOR drumpf, I’ll bet he’s privately putting out feelers to Mueller’s team for a squeal deal. Stone’s a person that is interested in self preservation above all else.

  23. 23.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    @LAO: haha
    When Nixon’s crimes were exposed, people were shocked. Trump assumes that he is normalizing crime, and his base won’t care.

  24. 24.

    dmsilev

    December 3, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    @rikyrah: Trump and Congressional Republicans proudly announced several times that ‘this is Infrastructure Week’, and each time they basically got up, postured a bit, and didn’t even try to actually propose any real infrastructure solutions. After the third or fourth repetition, a joke was born.

  25. 25.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    @JPL:

    Trump assumes that he is normalizing crime, and his base won’t care.

    Sadly, he’s not wrong here. They really don’t care.

  26. 26.

    Betty Cracker

    December 3, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    @LAO: Thank you! From your link:

    That’s the President of the United States making a sentencing recommendation about an ongoing investigation where he is one of the individuals being investigated, while praising the “guts” of a witness who refuses to cooperate with authorities. The clear INTENT is to intimidate Stone and any other person considering of testifying against Trump. He’s telling them that “guts” will be rewarded, while he will use the full powers of his bully pulpit to get the harshest possible penalties for those who testify against him.

    THAT’S ILLEGAL.

    Exactly.

  27. 27.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    @JPL: In all seriousness, I’m concerned about that. When I saw the tweets this am and how little a reaction they caused, I was disheartened.

  28. 28.

    sukabi

    December 3, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    @JPL: and by the end of this he will have been The Mastermind.

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 1:52 pm

    @sukabi:

    While Stone is publicly trolling FOR drumpf, I’ll bet he’s privately putting out feelers to Mueller’s team for a squeal deal.

    I’m hopeful Mueller has enough bury Stone too and doesn’t need his testimony.

  30. 30.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 1:54 pm

    @LAO:

    @JPL: In all seriousness, I’m concerned about that. When I saw the tweets this am and how little a reaction they caused, I was disheartened.

    The little reaction is that we already know he’s guilty. This only reinforces it.

    His base doesn’t care. Their lack of character shines through.

    but, there is a group that can be chipped away to get him down to the 27%.

  31. 31.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 1:54 pm

    Well this is concerning to me: Whitaker and Trump will be together Friday at an event.

    Trump and acting AG Matt Whitaker in Kansas City on Friday for a DOJ event for police officers, ⁦@BryanLowry3⁩ reports. https://t.co/SUajqrmtwD— Jennifer Jacobs (@JenniferJJacobs) December 3, 2018

  32. 32.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    Don’t forget what happened last week…..

    Dolt45 is still in shock that Bobby Three Sticks knew Manafort was a trickbaby…and used him as such…

    Say it with me, Boys and Girls….

    Bobby Three Sticks didn’t reveal that Manafort was a unfaithful trick…

    UNTIL HE HAD DOLT45’S WRITTEN ANSWERS TO HIS QUESTIONS….

    BWA HA HA HA HA H AH AH AH AH HA

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    December 3, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    @rikyrah:

    I don’t even know how it started.

    The first time Trump planned to have Infrastructure Week, he wound up firing Comey, and it got lost in the uproar. The next time was immediately after the riot in Charlottesville, and again it got lost in the noise. So people decided that any time there was an out of control uproar about what Trump had said or done, it must be Infrastructure Week again.

  34. 34.

    sukabi

    December 3, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    @JPL: it seems his “base” consists of a whole bunch of assholes masquerading as journalists….they shape the news. If the reportage is the equivalent of a shrug, then they’re responsible in large part for the normalization.

  35. 35.

    The Dangerman

    December 3, 2018 at 1:57 pm

    OK, my video skills full on suck regarding the Vandenburg launch (think it would need massive improvement just to reach Cole level, besides the show from Pismo distance wasn’t much of a show). Here is the livestream link. Launch is about 19:50. At around 21:35, Point Sal and the Guadalupe Dunes show up. Perfect weather for a launch.

  36. 36.

    sukabi

    December 3, 2018 at 1:59 pm

    @TenguPhule: That’s my hope as well…and that Stone finally gets the government accomodations at the graybar that he’s earned over the last 40 years.

  37. 37.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 3, 2018 at 2:01 pm

    My favorite thing in those tweets is the scare quotes around “President Trump.” Nice touch.

  38. 38.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 3, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    an official with the power to commute sentences and pardon people

    Trump left all their predecessors dangling in the wind. That’s got to be weighing heavily on anyone in Mueller’s crosshairs.

  39. 39.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I know. What a maroon as my grandmother used to say.

  40. 40.

    FlipYrWhig

    December 3, 2018 at 2:05 pm

    I’m old enough to remember when a presidential candidate’s husband’s idle conversation with the Attorney General was a prima facie damning case of obstruction of justice. This is beyond beyond beyond the pale.

  41. 41.

    tobie

    December 3, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    @LAO: That is worrisome. On the other hand, I’m sure the two have all sorts of conduits running between them. Whatever happened to the revelation that Whitaker lied to the FTC about his knowledge of the fraud allegations against that Miami patent company? There are so many scandals these days, it’s hard to keep up with any one of them. Mitch McConnell also isn’t interested in exercising oversight so Whitaker gets away scot free. When the history of this era is written, I think McConnell should get at least as much blame as Trump. He’s the enabler of the perversion of justice.

  42. 42.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    I’m hopeful Mueller has enough bury Stone too and doesn’t need his testimony.

    Me too.

  43. 43.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 3, 2018 at 2:11 pm

    @LAO:

    What a maroon.

  44. 44.

    HuCat

    December 3, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    Ooh, maybe they’ll make room for hiim at the Spiro T. Agnew suite at Ft. Hollabird.

  45. 45.

    FelonyGovt

    December 3, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    Apart from the witness tampering, his character (or lack of it) is on full display as he throws his previously loyal henchman and attorney under the bus and backs the bus over him repeatedly. As Mia Love would say, his relationships are transactional only.

  46. 46.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 2:14 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: lolololololo. Thanks.

  47. 47.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 2:18 pm

    @tobie: Without oversight, there are no consequences. I agree with you. McConnell, who I suspect will be richly rewarded by the 1% when he leaves office, should bear a significant portion of blame for Trump and the Trump era. Watching the destruction of the norms of governance under Republican rule has been enraging and heartbreaking.

  48. 48.

    jonas

    December 3, 2018 at 2:20 pm

    I would have thought firing the FBI director and then openly bragging it was because he refused to shut down the Russia investigation was grounds enough to bring a charge of obstruction of justice, but apparently nothing matters anymore, so here we are. I don’t see how his most recent tweeting is anything more serious than the hundreds of other times he’s used his stupid Twitter account to commit abuses of power.

  49. 49.

    bemused

    December 3, 2018 at 2:22 pm

    @HeleninEire:

    Seeing the video of trump just walking off stage leaving Argentine leader looking baffled, trump reportedly saying, “Get me out of here” made me think he’s losing it too. He’s not coping well, to put it mildly.

  50. 50.

    Bobby Thomson

    December 3, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    @LAO: all of them, Katie.

  51. 51.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 3, 2018 at 2:26 pm

    Soros-founded university says it has been kicked out of Hungary as an autocrat tightens his grip

    Orban needs to go.

  52. 52.

    NotMax

    December 3, 2018 at 2:28 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Scott Free is the civilian name of the DC super-hero Mister Miracle. The term Dolt 45 got woefully wrong is scot free (scot-free also acceptable), no caps and only a single T.)

  53. 53.

    JanieM

    December 3, 2018 at 2:29 pm

    *Continuing my practice of not embedding Trump’s tweets so you won’t have to look at his hideous mug on this page. You’re welcome.

    I can’t stand the sight of him or the sound of his voice either. But I do like Balloon-Juice. So thank you!

  54. 54.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 2:33 pm

    @LAO: That’s really a bad idea. If I were Whitaker I wouldn’t want to fly air force one with the deranged man.

  55. 55.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 3, 2018 at 2:34 pm

    And yet MSM is falling over itself praising Bush I.

  56. 56.

    LAO

    December 3, 2018 at 2:34 pm

    @JPL: Whitaker is a true believer fraudster. I’m sure he can’t wait to be in the presence of fraudster-greatness.

  57. 57.

    Roger Moore

    December 3, 2018 at 2:39 pm

    *Continuing my practice of not embedding Trump’s tweets so you won’t have to look at his hideous mug on this page.

    I also have problems with embedded tweets throwing off the position of the page when I reload. It appears to me that the page renders with the text-only tweets and moves to the position that would be correct based on that. Then, the tweet formatting gets loaded and the tweets take up more space, but the vertical position on the page doesn’t get updated. The net result is that on a page with lots of embedded tweets, I wind up being scrolled back a bunch of posts when I reload, or don’t go all the way to the bottom if I’ve just posted a comment. This is a regular headache for me on Firefox, especially on posts like Adam Silverman’s and Anne Laurie’s that tend to have a lot of embedded tweets.

  58. 58.

    danielx

    December 3, 2018 at 2:39 pm

    *Continuing my practice of not embedding Trump’s tweets so you won’t have to look at his hideous mug on this page. You’re welcome.

    And I for one am truly grateful.

  59. 59.

    Raoul

    December 3, 2018 at 2:41 pm

    @Betty “isn’t it at least legally…murky for an official with the power to commute sentences and pardon people to so openly telegraph his instructions in a case that directly affects himself?”

    Kellyanne’s husband thinks so.

    George Conway
    ‏@gtconway3d
    George Conway Retweeted Donald J. Trump
    File under “18 U.S.C. §§ 1503, 1512”

  60. 60.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 3, 2018 at 2:45 pm

    Did the sainted President Bush utter a word publicly against the current R president?

  61. 61.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 2:47 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: He voted for Hillary.

  62. 62.

    mad citizen

    December 3, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    Is Scott Free related to basketball player World B Free? Maybe Metta World Peace can also be part of this cast.

  63. 63.

    Brendan in NC

    December 3, 2018 at 2:50 pm

    @tobie: @LAO: I’m of the opinion that both the Russians, and (hopefully) Bobby Three Sticks have enough on Yertle that he won’t be heading out of this scot free.

  64. 64.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 2:50 pm

    ” isn’t it at least legally…murky for an official with the power to commute sentences and pardon people to so openly telegraph his instructions in a case that directly affects himself? Or is this yet another of those scenarios in which we used to rely on common decency and/or political consequences to regulate behavior until — oops! — they no longer do? ”

    George Mason and James Madison talked about it during the Constitutional Convention. But, what do those two eggheads Know? And they were critics, and Trump don’t like the critics.

    Mason: “ought not to have the power of pardoning, because he may frequently pardon crimes which were advised by himself. It may happen, at some future day, that he will establish a monarchy, and destroy the republic. If he has the power of granting pardons before indictment, or conviction, may he not stop inquiry and prevent detection? The case of treason ought, at least, to be excepted. This is a weighty objection with me.”

    Madison, in replay: “There is one security in this case to which gentlemen may not have adverted: if the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty.”

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/07/25/the-pardon-power-and-original-intent/

    They used to do great things, and people have been talking about them more and more. But it turns out, and few people know this, that they are liberal Democrats, and big Hillary supporters. Big Hillary supporters. They turned into weak egghead critic losers. Sad.

  65. 65.

    Gelfling 545

    December 3, 2018 at 2:51 pm

    I’m afraid he’ll get away with witness tampering because they’ll take into consideration that he’s just so gdamned stupid.

  66. 66.

    psycholinguist

    December 3, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    @rikyrah: That was so awesome. He asked for that 10 day extension, just enough time to get the responses from Trump submitted, and then dropped the hammer. What was so badass about that move was that I’m pretty confident that Muller knew Manafort’s lawyers and trumps were collaborating, and he found a way to turn that against them by letting them hatch out a consistent story that was also, provably, a lie.

  67. 67.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 3, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    @jl:
    I don’t think the founders could have ever imagined that such illiberal regimes as Hungary, Poland, Russia, etc with the facade of democracy were possible. Or that a political party that benefited from structural advantages would intentionally destroy democracy for partisan gain.

  68. 68.

    Steeplejack

    December 3, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    Witness tampering? It’s a “process crime,” right? So no biggie.

  69. 69.

    Gelfling 545

    December 3, 2018 at 2:56 pm

    @TenguPhule: And the NEXT week was always going to be infrastructure week. LOL.

  70. 70.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    I’ll just leave this here.

    DANIA BEACH, Fla. (AP) — A Florida woman faces an aggravated assault charge after authorities say she passed gas in line at a dollar store and pulled a knife on a man who complained about it.

    Citing a Broward Sheriff’s Office report, the Miami Herald reports 37-year-old Shanetta Yvette Wilson passed gas while waiting in line at a Dollar General Sunday night and upset a nearby customer. The report says the offended customer and Wilson then got into an argument “in reference to the defendant farting loudly.”

    It says Wilson then pulled a small folding knife out of her purse and told the victim she was going to “gut” him while moving as if to attack him. Wilson was arrested and charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon without intent to kill.

  71. 71.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 2:58 pm

    @popehat is wearing a Scott Free hat today. hehe

  72. 72.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 3:00 pm

    @Gelfling 545: He went to a top university, and he has the best brain

    also don’t forget about that big gut. The big gut is important.

  73. 73.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 3, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    @NotMax:
    Huh, you’re right. The intern writing these tweets a DC fan or something?

  74. 74.

    clay

    December 3, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: Scott Free is also the name of a DC Comics character, better known as Mr. Miracle.

    EDIT: Reply was too late, as always.

  75. 75.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 3:04 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I think if you read enough of their writings, they did think about it a lot. Franklin,, Hamilton, Madison, and John Adams thought about it a lot and wrote down their fears. Their suggestions for preventing it happening for the US were different, following their individual political and social ideologies.

    They thought that governments that started with democratic tendencies had a habit of transforming, through excessive accumulation of wealth that created a new aristocracy, or domestic or foreign crises, into aristocratic or populist authoritarian governments, that would lead to dictatorship by the very few or one.

  76. 76.

    Mandalay

    December 3, 2018 at 3:05 pm

    @HeleninEire:

    I take it all back. He’s getting worse, he’s losing it.

    I had exactly the same position as you, even though some folks here weren’t simply hurling insults at Trump; they were making medical arguments that he has a serious problem. Well his walk off at the G20 was the final straw for me, and I happily concede that they were right all along.

    I have seen Trump defenders try to get him off the hook by claiming Trump knew exactly what he was doing, but for me that is even worse than him just getting confused and befuddled; it would represent a massive error of judgement on Trump’s part to think that he achieved anything by deliberately walking off. Either way he really needs to see a doctor about his mental state.

  77. 77.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 3:07 pm

    Continuing my practice of not embedding Trump’s tweets so you won’t have to look at his hideous mug on this page. You’re welcome.

    Thank you!

  78. 78.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 3:08 pm

    @Mandalay:
    They’re lazy, always falling back on “He’s just doing what he promised.”

  79. 79.

    Mart

    December 3, 2018 at 3:10 pm

    Trying to come up with a clever response to the Florida Woman fart slasher, but I have nothing.

  80. 80.

    laura

    December 3, 2018 at 3:13 pm

    @trollhattan: how’s her dart game?

  81. 81.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 3:14 pm

    @jl: The reference of Madison’s ‘they can remove him’ is unclear’ since was in the middle of the Constitutional Debates, and I’m not sure whether the trial power was given to the Senate at that point. But what Trump is doing is clearly an impeachable offense. The fraudulent corporate news dog and pony shows can get all the bogus experts they want to throw up dust, and throw ‘stuff’ against the wall, but the intent is clearly there in plain English.

    And speaking of corporate news shows, somebody booked frikken Cheney to come on this weekend and talk about the late George HW Bush. Beeyeebus protect me. Couldn’t they do better than that old war criminal? I forget which one it was. I was in another room and heard this hideously familiar voice.

    It’s ambiguous praise, I suppose. But I do owe George HW Bush for wakening me from my youthful glbertarian curious episode during the Reagan years. I never voted for Reagan or any of his flunkies in politics, then, but I was wondering if maybe what they were up to was worth a try. Good ol’ pappy convinced me it had not been worth a try, and good o’l pappy Bush was first time I started wondering what was the difference between the GOP and a white collar crime ring.

  82. 82.

    Ruckus

    December 3, 2018 at 3:15 pm

    @Gelfling 545:
    I don’t know how many times I’ve heard that ignorance of the law is no excuse. I’d imagine that covers just plain ignorance as well. And dementia.
    What is important to never forget, if shitgibbon is suffering from dementia, it is the entire republican party which is enabling that behavior to continue unabated.

  83. 83.

    laura

    December 3, 2018 at 3:16 pm

    @laura:
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/lookit/2018/11/18/18101109/darts-farting-controversy-video

  84. 84.

    KSinMA

    December 3, 2018 at 3:17 pm

    @Brendan in NC: From your mouth to God’s ear!

  85. 85.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 3:18 pm

    Inside one man’s failed plan to use a stolen forklift to assassinate Trump

    Last fall, Trump flew to Mandan, N.D., to give a speech at the largest oil refinery in the state. His brief visit made a few minor headlines: In a rare show of bipartisanship, Trump had joined Heidi Heitkamp, then the state’s Democratic junior senator, to tout his tax overhaul plan. (She would later oppose the bill.)

    And once at the Mandan Refinery, Trump had spontaneously invited his eldest daughter, White House adviser Ivanka Trump, onto the stage, telling the crowd that she had asked, “Daddy, can I go with you?”

    Last week, it was revealed that the trip was noteworthy for another reason: A North Dakota man had been arrested at the refinery on the day of Trump’s visit, reportedly over a plan to assassinate Trump— using a stolen forklift.

    Gregory Lee Leingang, 42, was charged last fall with attempting to enter or remain in the refinery on Sept. 6, 2017, the day of Trump’s visit, as well as one count of attempting to damage government property. He pleaded guilty on Friday to the first count.

    According to a copy of the plea agreement, Leingang knowingly entered and remained in a restricted area, “that is, the Mandan Refinery and its grounds and presidential motorcade route . . . and in relation to the offense, did use a deadly and dangerous weapon, that is, a forklift.”

    So tired of these amateurs.

  86. 86.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 3:19 pm

    @Mart:

    Trying to come up with a clever response to the Florida Woman fart slasher, but I have nothing.

    it stinks.

  87. 87.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    @laura:
    Err, mah, gurrd!

  88. 88.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 3:24 pm

    In news that surprises nobody here, black man shot and killed at the mall was shot by police from behind.

    Emantic Bradford Jr, the 21-year-old African American man who was killed by a police officer on Thanksgiving at a mall in Alabama, was shot three times from behind, according to an independent autopsy released by a civil rights attorney on Monday.

    His father told the Guardian the report showed his son was murdered.

    According to the report, Dr Roger A Mitchell observed gunshot wounds to the right side of Bradford Jr’s body, in his head, neck and lower back. The report states: “The cause of death is gunshot wound of the head. Manner of death is homicide.”

    After Thanksgiving dinner with his family, Bradford Jr went to the mall. Gunfire broke out. A witness said he heard multiple gunshots and later walked by Bradford’s body. A 12-year-old girl and an 18-year-old man were injured.

    Initially, Hoover police identified Bradford as the suspect. They later said he was not the suspect, but had “brandished” a gun. Police backed off that claim too. A week after the shooting, a suspect was arrested in Georgia.

    On Monday, through the lawyer Ben Crump, the Bradford family said: “[The autopsy] clearly demonstrates that EJ posed no threat to the off-duty Hoover police department officer who killed him while working a private security detail at Riverchase Galleria mall, since EJ was moving away from him.”

  89. 89.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    @TenguPhule: And what is the police response?

    The Hoover police department said in a statement: “We encourage Attorney Benjamin Crump and the Bradford family to submit the Preliminary Anatomical Review to the Alabama law Enforcement Agency (Alea) so this new information becomes a part of the official investigation.”

    Crump said his team passed the results to the Jefferson county medical examiner before informing the public, and the medical examiner should have shared the results with Alea.

    Almost immediately after Bradford died, Alea took over the investigation. The state agency has requested videos and other information not be released “at the risk of compromising the justice process for everyone involved”, police said. The officer involved has not been named. Responding to the results of the private autopsy, police also called for a thorough investigation.

    Crump said police offered the family their condolences last week. But the family has not heard from the police again, he said.

    This is not how an innocent party behaves.

  90. 90.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    @TenguPhule: I can see maybe some guy on a steamroller trying to chase Trump into wet concrete. Since, recently, dystopan scifi and comedy flicks seem to have the best predictive value for where we are headed.

  91. 91.

    Mnemosyne

    December 3, 2018 at 3:27 pm

    @LAO:

    I remember the good old days when Obama saying that a cop acted “stupidly” or that Trayvon Martin could have been his son was PROOF POSITIVE that Obama was interfering in the justice system.

    Now the president* openly tampers with potential witnesses against him on Twitter and the right wing is fine with it. ?

  92. 92.

    Ruckus

    December 3, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    @JPL:
    Are you implying that Whitaker isn’t deranged?

  93. 93.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    @jl:
    We’re all primed and ready for “Trump v. Dalek.”

  94. 94.

    Ohio Mom

    December 3, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    @rikyrah: I don’t think it is so much that Trump’s base doesn’t care that he broke the law, I think they understand perfectly well he colluded with Russia and they are glad for it.

    The “end” of having Trump making America great again is justified by any “means.” They are thankful for Putin’s assistance.

    And they are going to be very pissed to see anyone punished for this great deed.

  95. 95.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 3:33 pm

    @trollhattan:

    We’re all primed and ready for “Trump v. Dalek.”

    That should go over as well as Cyberman v. Dalek.

  96. 96.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 3, 2018 at 3:35 pm

    @Ohio Mom:
    I believe you are 100% correct. Of course, many of them will never admit it, because Cleek’s Law, but in their hearts the true crime is minorities of any kind having any power. They are seeing waaaaaaay too much of that lately, so extreme measures to stop it are a virtue, not a sin.

  97. 97.

    chris

    December 3, 2018 at 3:36 pm

    @Roger Moore: Huh, same thing happens on Chrome for me. Thank you for the explanation.

  98. 98.

    sukabi

    December 3, 2018 at 3:37 pm

    Via Ray story, Guiliani is a very terrible advocate for trump…his rage tweet friday provided an enterprising person an opportunity for a bit of fun and truth telling… Click the inadvertent link in his tweet.

  99. 99.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 3:39 pm

    @sukabi: haha I just saw that

  100. 100.

    sm*t cl*de

    December 3, 2018 at 3:40 pm

    @bemused:

    Seeing the video of trump just walking off stage leaving Argentine leader looking baffled, trump reportedly saying, “Get me out of here” made me think he’s losing it too.

    It’s always sun-down somewhere in the world.

  101. 101.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 3:42 pm

    @Ruckus: hmmm I was thinking of a scenario where an out of control Trump shoves Whitaker into the exit control door. Maybe we can get a two for one.

  102. 102.

    VOR

    December 3, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    Scott Free in DC Comics is an superhero andescape artist known as Mister Miracle.

  103. 103.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 3, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    @sukabi: Guiliani seems to me to calmly announce that Trump’s been engaged in criminal activity. Can that be deliberate? Can Trump be authorizing that?

  104. 104.

    HeleninEire

    December 3, 2018 at 3:46 pm

    Told my boss today I’m leaving. I was apprehensive. She was great. She even said “Have you booked all your vacation?” No, I said. “I’ll give 2 days back. No big deal.” She said “No book it.”

    I’ll miss Ireland.

  105. 105.

    Downpuppy

    December 3, 2018 at 3:53 pm

    @NotMax: Scott & Big Barda are close to getting a movie deal.

  106. 106.

    germy

    December 3, 2018 at 3:53 pm

    ?'Scot-free': completely free from obligation, harm, or penalty

    'Scott Free': some guy, probablyhttps://t.co/nQFL7I0ELH

    — Merriam-Webster (@MerriamWebster) December 3, 2018

  107. 107.

    debit

    December 3, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    @TenguPhule: Don’t try to kill me with a forklift. Ole!

  108. 108.

    sukabi

    December 3, 2018 at 3:55 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: it doesn’t seem to me that anything Giuliani’s done has been calm or thought out…he seems to be flailing and , much like trump throwing out a bunch of chaff to try and 1) confuse the issues and 2) distract and inflame trumps base…

    which results in
    3)incriminating himself and everybody involved in crimes that that have largely flown under the surface.

  109. 109.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 3:58 pm

    @jl:

    But I do owe George HW Bush for wakening me from my youthful glbertarian curious episode during the Reagan years. I never voted for Reagan or any of his flunkies in politics, then, but I was wondering if maybe what they were up to was worth a try.

    Wasn’t St. Ronnie’s tenure here in CA enough to make that point? Silly jl.

  110. 110.

    germy

    December 3, 2018 at 4:02 pm

    Pleased that Michael and I have sorted shit out and we know the accounting is on the up and up. We are going to kick ass together on two coasts tomorrow. #teamstormy— Stormy Daniels (@StormyDaniels) December 2, 2018

  111. 111.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 4:02 pm

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez hands daddy Huck his ass on a platter and serves up Possum Queen as an amuse bouche (nominated for best use of off-handed compliment). Her jib, I like its cut.

  112. 112.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 4:05 pm

    @germy: I love that!

  113. 113.

    laura

    December 3, 2018 at 4:07 pm

    @trollhattan: needs Moar Haggis.

  114. 114.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 4:10 pm

    @Ohio Mom:

    @rikyrah: I don’t think it is so much that Trump’s base doesn’t care that he broke the law, I think they understand perfectly well he colluded with Russia and they are glad for it.

    The “end” of having Trump making America great again is justified by any “means.” They are thankful for Putin’s assistance

    Oh, I don’t doubt it.
    But, it’s called CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.

    They are TRAITORS, ALL.
    And, should be treated as such

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne

    December 3, 2018 at 4:15 pm

    @jl:

    They thought that governments that started with democratic tendencies had a habit of transforming, through excessive accumulation of wealth that created a new aristocracy, or domestic or foreign crises, into aristocratic or populist authoritarian governments, that would lead to dictatorship by the very few or one.

    The Founding Fathers —especially Madison and Hamilton — spent a LOT of time thinking this shit through and trying to prevent exactly the situation we’re in now. I guess we should be glad that it took over 200 years to really fuck with their framework.

  116. 116.

    Spanky

    December 3, 2018 at 4:15 pm

    @HeleninEire:

    I’ll miss Ireland.

    Did I miss an announcement somewhere?

  117. 117.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 4:16 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I was a damned kid those days, but I didn’t like him because Reagan was down on those damn kids these days. But, the history books tell me Reagan was a moderate conservative GOPer, who raised taxes, because taxes should hurt, if we want to pay enough for needed government services.

    BTW, Josh Marhall has a goo post on the legacy of late GHW Bush.

    President Bush and the Road to Trumpism
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/president-bush-and-the-road-to-trumpism

    It says GHW’s real accomplishments were in foreign policy: making sure end of Cold War, dissolution of USSR and reunification of Germany went peacefully, (and I would add clam and disciplined conduct of expulsion of Iraq from Kuwait, which I don’t think Marshall talks about). And GHW’s contribution of US domestic politics was bumbling and cowardly, herky jerky reaction and, by the end of his term, surrender to Movement Conservatism and the horrible no good national GOP that sprung from it. In other words: “a mess”.

    And BTW, I find the corporate news coverage of GHW’s legacy to be infantile, really childish historically ignorant, and beneath contempt. ‘Read my lips, oh my, ‘read my lips!”

  118. 118.

    JWL

    December 3, 2018 at 4:16 pm

    Trump is the Black Knight in Monty Python’s Search For The Holy Grail, and none shall pass his bridge. Remember when the Black Knight warned Mueller Inc. not to dare look into his business dealings? Sure you do. Now picture him as the limbless, bloody stump lying on the ground that he is today, shouting at Mueller while vowing to thrash him.

    Better yet, remember how you felt the moment you realized how badly the pooch had been screwed and Donald Trump was our next president? I do. It’s why I feel so damn cheerful- and there’s no other word to describe it- at the way things are going. This is a great country, and we are a great people.

  119. 119.

    gene108

    December 3, 2018 at 4:17 pm

    Scott [email protected]
    Follow Follow @IamScottFree
    More
    So somehow the president mentioned someone getting off “Scott Free” and I woke up to my mentions blowing up and trending on Twitter. ???

    https://twitter.com/IamScottFree?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

    Trump’s doing wonders for Scott Free’s Twitter account…growing it bigly…

    But this Scott Free, below, just wants to be left alone

    Scott [email protected]

    Leave me outta this Scott Free added,

    Donald J. Trump

    Verified account

    @realDonaldTrump
    ….his wife and father-in-law (who has the money?) off Scott Free. He lied for this outcome and should, in my opinion, serve a full and complete sentence.
    9:43 AM – 3 Dec 2018

    Or does he?

    Scott [email protected]

    Just got a phone call from Robert Mueller :/

  120. 120.

    The Moar You Know

    December 3, 2018 at 4:17 pm

    Pleased that Michael and I have sorted shit out and we know the accounting is on the up and up. We are going to kick ass together on two coasts tomorrow. #teamstormy— Stormy Daniels (@StormyDaniels) December 2, 2018

    @germy: It’s amazing what restoring cash flow can do.

  121. 121.

    Gelfling 545

    December 3, 2018 at 4:17 pm

    @trollhattan: If it’s against Trump I’ll be rooting for the squiddy things in the elaborate tin cans.

  122. 122.

    germy

    December 3, 2018 at 4:18 pm

    @JPL:

    I love that!

    It’s not the first time they’ve teased him.

  123. 123.

    gene108

    December 3, 2018 at 4:21 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    The Founding Fathers —especially Madison and Hamilton — spent a LOT of time thinking this shit through and trying to prevent exactly the situation we’re in now. I guess we should be glad that it took over 200 years to really fuck with their framework.

    We were here in the Gilded Age with the Robber Barons. Their influence was chipped away at after decades of civic engagement via the labor movement,anti-child labor / pro-public education movement, etc.

  124. 124.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 4:23 pm

    @jl: While listening to that corporate drivel, I did notice that the subliminal social engineering messaging of the coverage is that is very very bad and very very dangerous to ever raise taxes, for any reason. Coincidence? I don’t know.

    Anyway, the coverage is just that GHW managed to supervise the end of the Cold War without WWIII breaking out, and he raised taxes and that killed him politically dead dead dead. Been days of hearing that over and over again. And then some jackass booked frikken Cheney. Even GHW deserves better than that.

  125. 125.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 4:29 pm

    @gene108: After reading Marshall’s post on the legacy of GHW, I thought of the contrast of Theodore Roosevelt and GHW. When the GOP started going in a bad direction domestically, GHW herked and jerked this way and that, appearing weak while he tried to feign strength, but really was weak, and finally said to the nutjobs, ‘OK you win, I’ll say the stupid shit you want’. By contrast Theodore Roosevelt said “enough of this shit, I’m out of here’.

    OTOH, until WWI sobered Teddy up on how catastrophic modern war was, I don’t know if earlier Teddy would have gotten through end of Cold War without causing enough trouble to start something bad.

  126. 126.

    gene108

    December 3, 2018 at 4:30 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    And yet MSM is falling over itself praising Bush I.

    They do this with all dead Presidents. They did it with Nixon. They did it with Reagan. They did it with Ford.

  127. 127.

    Mnemosyne

    December 3, 2018 at 4:31 pm

    @gene108:

    And immediately after those gains that ended the Gilded Age, there was a huge uptick in racist violence and anti-immigrant feeling. The early 1900s were when most Jim Crow legislation was passed and majority black towns like Rosewood were burned to the ground by white mobs. It was when the US decided to stop immigration from Asia. Membership in the KKK soared to an all-time high and they held mass parades in US cities.

    So we’re getting both effects at the same time right now. Lucky us.

  128. 128.

    Mnemosyne

    December 3, 2018 at 4:32 pm

    @gene108:

    They won’t do it with Bill Clinton. I will lay a cash bet on it right now.

    And Jimmy Carter will get a lot less hagiography than HW is getting.

  129. 129.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 3, 2018 at 4:35 pm

    @gene108:
    We may not have decades, unfortunately

    @Mnemosyne:

    OT: You recommended an outlining book to me many months ago, but I can’t remember what it was. Could you refresh my memory?

  130. 130.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 3, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    I’ve managed to avoid most of the media gushing, but I turned on MSNBC and Nicole Wallace is in full wallow, not really surprising given her employment history. I haven’t heard many people mention Clarence Thomas, maybe the most cynical moment of Bush’s frequently cynical career

    Just occurred to me HRC is almost certainly going to be within a few feet of The Beast at the funeral.

  131. 131.

    Brachiator

    December 3, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    Or is this yet another of those scenarios in which we used to rely on common decency and/or political consequences to regulate behavior until — oops! — they no longer do?

    We have never relied on common decency. Deals were made quietly in the background. Trump just brings all the ugly shit out in the open. He dares anyone to defy him because he believes that he can get away with anything.

    Can he?

  132. 132.

    piratedan

    December 3, 2018 at 4:39 pm

    @debit: you get one Huzzah! and a half-dozen McClouds! for finding that!

  133. 133.

    oatler.

    December 3, 2018 at 4:41 pm

    @JWL: When it come to Python analogies, I think of Trump as Mr Creosote: surly, abusive and demanding to be fed until…

  134. 134.

    Jack the Second

    December 3, 2018 at 4:42 pm

    @Mnemosyne: For all they say “the only good Democrat…” they sure don’t have any nice things to say about them.

  135. 135.

    Dan B

    December 3, 2018 at 4:43 pm

    @Mandalay: A psychiatrist has a clear take on Trumps mental illness, what it probably means for the US, and how It’s unlikely that there will be any remedy until after he precipitated a catastrophe.

    Raw Story likes these apocalyptic stories so I hold out hope. It’s an informative read anyway. The clearer the knowledge the more solutions rise into our consciousness.

  136. 136.

    A Ghost To Most

    December 3, 2018 at 4:45 pm

    @oatler.: Agreed. Can’t wait for the inevitable messy explosive conclusion.

  137. 137.

    A Ghost To Most

    December 3, 2018 at 4:48 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    But top marks for initiative.

  138. 138.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 4:49 pm

    @A Ghost To Most: Trump won’t go for just one small wafer, though. Gotta be big and the best. So, the mess will be even bigger, so we need to hope it is not a public policy or foreign affairs wafer.

  139. 139.

    HeleninEire

    December 3, 2018 at 4:50 pm

    @Spanky: Yup. I’ve decided to return to NYC permanently. The decision to move back was actually harder than the decision to move here. I will miss my Dublin friends terribly. Everyone, to a person here has been kind, friendly and welcoming. I am comforted knowing that the trip across the pond is easy. I can visit anytime.

    This adventure has been GRAND. One of the best of my life. I will forever be thrilled and grateful that I did it.

    But the truth is as much as I love Dublin, I love NY more.

  140. 140.

    A Ghost To Most

    December 3, 2018 at 4:59 pm

    @jl: Yup. He will probably go out big. I am counting on the military chain of command to disobey unlawful orders.

  141. 141.

    japa21

    December 3, 2018 at 4:59 pm

    @HeleninEire: Just when I was planning on visiting Dublin and looking you up. Glad I hadn’t put down the deposit yet.

  142. 142.

    The Dangerman

    December 3, 2018 at 5:02 pm

    Can we make sure Trump doesn’t get this level of pomp and circumstance when he checks out? I’d go so far as a double flush. Maybe.

  143. 143.

    Ohio Mom

    December 3, 2018 at 5:02 pm

    @HeleninEire: What? I thought you were moving to a new job in Ireland, or maybe taking a sabbatical? What’s going on?

  144. 144.

    Yarrow

    December 3, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    The pageantry of HW Bush’s casket arrival to the Capitol is impressive. I’m sure they planned the timing but they got really lucky with the weather. The sky is just beautiful with the sun setting.

    However you feel about the Bushes, it’s such a human moment for W to watch his dad’s casket arrive at the Capitol. You could really see it on his face.

  145. 145.

    Ohio Mom

    December 3, 2018 at 5:07 pm

    @HeleninEire: Oh. Should have read more of the thread.

    I might understand. I grew up in the Bronx and then Queens. NYC will always have a hold on me. I don’t think I can leave Ohio (this has to do with the supports autistic Ohio Son has and needs), but I will always have some regret about my ex-pat lifestyle.

  146. 146.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 5:07 pm

    @Yarrow: It’s the same with Laura Bush. Most of us have warts and all, and he did have a lot of warts, but overall I think he was okay.

    also .. Because of Mediaite I say a clip of Meghan McCain losing it because Joy was speaking to Bush’s environmental policies. I had forgotten that he strengthened the Clean air act.

  147. 147.

    low-tech cyclist

    December 3, 2018 at 5:08 pm

    There’s a special election for a state Senate seat in Virginia that’s worth contributing to. The election will be on January 8, just 5 weeks away.

    Del. Jennifer Boysko is the Dem nominee in a special election to fill the state Senate seat that Jennifer Wexton has vacated because she’s going to be in Congress in January, having turned VA-10 blue last month. The VA Senate has had a 21-19 GOP majority; if we keep this seat Dem, it stays at 21-19 and improves our chances of turning the VA Senate blue in November 2019. (The Old Dominion has its state legislative elections on the odd years.)

  148. 148.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 5:10 pm

    Uh huh ? ?

    Before he hired Ted Devine (Putin’s man in the Ukraine w Manafort), Bernie Sanders had never been a Dem. He had never introduced legislation regarding legalization of marijuana, free college or raising min wage. 40 yrs & suddenly he’s a Democrat w an entirely new pandering agenda pic.twitter.com/B3Mizu98nf

    — ☇RiotWomenn☇ (@riotwomennn) December 3, 2018

  149. 149.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 3, 2018 at 5:12 pm

    @JPL:
    I told my mother, I think HW Bush is an evil man, but he was not a pure evil without good points. This is a ground level bar, but I can’t think of anyone in the modern GOP who can clear it.

  150. 150.

    Barbara

    December 3, 2018 at 5:14 pm

    @jl: It’s hard not to be nostalgic for just about any prior president in one’s lifetime who is not Trump. I still shudder every time I look at having written the words “president” and “Trump” in the same sentence. Bush gave us Willie Horton and elevated Lee Atwater to a principal position in the Republican Party. Quite a lot rolled downhill from just those two things alone. He was otherwise cynical and transactional when it came to African Americans and civil rights. He vetoed the FMLA, which passed Congress during his term but had to pass again so Clinton could sign it. I am tired of all this sanctimonious denial of responsibility for the veritable avalanche of individual tactics, strategy and decisions that paved the way for Trump.

  151. 151.

    HeleninEire

    December 3, 2018 at 5:15 pm

    @japa21: LOL go to Dublin anyway. The people are the best. I will hook you up.

  152. 152.

    Dan B

    December 3, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    @rikyrah: Yale psychiatrist Bandy X. Lee States that Trumps base is “overcome with feelings of powerlessness” and they respond to “winning” no matter the lies and the fact that there is no real winning. It sets up his base for violence that may produce more ” epidemics of violence”.

    It will likely produ

  153. 153.

    Ohio Mom

    December 3, 2018 at 5:18 pm

    @JPL: W as a son is a separate category than W as a president. He was a horrible president, and his father was no great shakes either.

    Erik Loomis at Lawyers, Guns and Money posted a review of the senior Bush’s Life the other day. It’s a good antidote to anyone feeling misty-eyed about #41.

  154. 154.

    HeleninEire

    December 3, 2018 at 5:19 pm

    @Ohio Mom: I’ve been here 2 years. Was my dream. Still is. But things are going on in NY. This is not a bad thing. It has been FABULOUS. I have no regrets.

  155. 155.

    hl

    December 3, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    @Barbara: We need to be at least a little cynical with all politicians, and way cynical when it comes to national level GOPers. I’ve seen the famous or infamous one-upping between Reagan and GHW Bush during debate on which would be more reasonable and constructive on Hispanic undocumented immigration with comments on how sad that issue has become. People forget that, back then, Hispanics were one of the model minorities that the GOP hoped to capture enough of for them to be an asset electorally. So, too little cynicism is given to that.

    At other times the GOP had similar plans for East Asians, and a bigger share of Jewish voters. But that has gone down the tube. Apparently only bigoted whites can swallow the GOP’s crummy horrible policies for anyone not stinking richer than God, and they walk away from a craptastic deal the GOP offers to the ‘lesser’ people.

  156. 156.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 5:27 pm

    @Barbara: put in a comment (edit, that WP eated up) that cynicism is warranted. Noted that the context is missing from the clip that is going around of Reagan and GHW debating how reasonable and constructive each would be towards Hispanic undocumented immigration. People seem to forget that the GOP was eyeing Hispanics as a cute model minority who they could dupe into voting for them back then. Seems like ages ago when that idea was not laughable.

  157. 157.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 5:30 pm

    @Ohio Mom: The comment at 149 is spot on.
    @Frankensteinbeck:

  158. 158.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 5:35 pm

    @Yarrow:
    Never developed deep animosity for HW (but: Clarence Thomas) but his kids are garbage who have caused significant, lasting damage to the country. And Bar’s not around to crack their skulls with her thimble so we need to be on our guard, and that goes for generation 3.

  159. 159.

    Dan B

    December 3, 2018 at 5:36 pm

    @Dan B: My edit / fix is in suspended animation… sigh.

  160. 160.

    ruemara

    December 3, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    @rikyrah: Amazing how easy it was to snow the supposedly smart party with a wafer thin PR campaign for a back bencher. I wonder why that happened?

  161. 161.

    Yarrow

    December 3, 2018 at 5:38 pm

    Interesting to watch the House of Representatives’ wreath with Ryan and Pelosi, the once and future Queen who’s taking his job in January.

  162. 162.

    ruemara

    December 3, 2018 at 5:39 pm

    @HeleninEire: Know anyone who could host a very nice polite woman of mature age with only moderately immature habits and a tendency to bake? Just in case the 18 MONTHS timeframe for my citizenship takes even longer.

  163. 163.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 5:41 pm

    @The Dangerman:

    I’d go so far as a double flush. Maybe.

    Being from California, you know we can’t do that; it’s important we conserve water.

  164. 164.

    Yarrow

    December 3, 2018 at 5:42 pm

    @trollhattan: George P Bush is the one to watch out for. He’s Land Commissioner in Texas.

  165. 165.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 3, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    @ruemara: Is it taking 18 months where you are. It took me 6 months in 2017 and my friend’s application took 8 months this year.

  166. 166.

    Ruckus

    December 3, 2018 at 5:48 pm

    @ruemara:
    I’d bet you know the answer better than I do but it’s because they are easily snowed. Because they want to believe everything that has been shown to be bullshit. Over and over and over…….
    It’s not just that they believe, it’s that they really, really want to believe that the golden ring is only held out for members of the republican party. Even when they know that there is no golden ring for anyone to grab, they want to believe it.

  167. 167.

    catclub

    December 3, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    @LAO:

    So, who do we think got indicted?

    remember the Capitol Steps singing group? One of their songs – maybe around 1989 was “You’re so indicted”

  168. 168.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    @Yarrow:
    Duly noted. I knew we couldn’t be so lucky as to catch a break with this generation. Now that we have fvcking Rep the-wrong Cheney (Ghoul, WY) we can’t rule out a Cheney-Bush run for the WH.

  169. 169.

    Gelfling 545

    December 3, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    @Ohio Mom: But if I was offered the chance to swap Bush’s soul into Trump’s otherwise empty carcass I’d take it in a heartbeat.

  170. 170.

    SFAW

    December 3, 2018 at 5:56 pm

    @NotMax:
    Re: “scot-free” spelling, I have another question:

    Does “pedant” have one T or two?
    [Only busting your chops because you beat me to the punch re: “scot-free.”]

  171. 171.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 5:58 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Being from California, you know we can’t do that; it’s important we conserve water.

    Also environmental regulations degree that toxic waste may not be disposed of where it may contaminate ground water used for drinking.

  172. 172.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:01 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I’ve managed to avoid most of the media gushing,

    I feel like it’s connected, the gushing over (just) decent Republicans and the acceptance of horrible Republicans.

    Like the scale is wrong. Bush gets an A so Trump has to get a C. So if we gave Bush a gentleman’s C then Trump would get an F, which is the right scale.

    They think gushing over decent Republicans somehow helps to make Trump unacceptable in comparison but it’s actually having the opposite effect. It’s just ALL fucked up – they have to start over and try again.

  173. 173.

    stinger

    December 3, 2018 at 6:01 pm

    I continue to feel both affronted and humiliated that the President* of the United States expresses himself this way in public. Both his sentiments and his grammar are abhorrent.

  174. 174.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:01 pm

    Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard made multiple stops this weekend in the state that holds the first primary in the race for the White House — sparking further speculation that she’s considering a run for the Democratic presidential nomination.

    “I’m seriously thinking of how I can best be of service to our country,” Gabbard said in an interview with the Honolulu Star-Advertiser today, as she arrived for a meet and greet with party activists packed into the Rockingham County Democrats headquarters in Exeter.

    But the progressive lawmaker, who was just re-elected to a fourth term representing Hawaii’s 2nd Congressional District, said “no” when asked if she had any timetable for deciding on a White House bid.

    2020 primary is kicking off already. sigh.

    Beat her like an old rug, because you do not want her as the party standard bearer in 2020. Unlike Hillary Clinton, Tulsi is one of the few people on Earth that Donald Trump could conceivably beat without having to cheat too much.

  175. 175.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 6:02 pm

    @TenguPhule: Shit usually gets filtered out before it reaches the aquifer.

  176. 176.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:02 pm

    @Kay:

    they have to start over and try again.

    Trying is doing so much heavy lifting that it really needs to rent a forklift.

  177. 177.

    KSinMA

    December 3, 2018 at 6:03 pm

    @Brachiator: Wasn’t it James Madison who said something like “If men were angels, there would be no need for government”?

  178. 178.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 6:03 pm

    @Kay: It’s graded on a curve, so it depends on how awful the rest of the GOP is.

  179. 179.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 6:06 pm

    @Kay: Sure, whatever. But did you know that GHW was president when the Cold War ended and the USSR fell apart and he avoided WW THREE. And he said he wouldn’t raise taxes, but then he did. And that was very very bad for him. Bad things happen to anyone who raises taxes, even a little bit, even if abstractly, it is the goody two-shoes right thing to do for the country, supposedly, some people somewhere may have possibly argued. But GHW was destroyed when he raised taxes!

    If GHW hadn’t lost the election because he raised taxes, a monster would have come out of the woods and eaten him up. That kind of thing can happen in Maine.

    And, GHW was not a complete monster in his personal life and his kids actually liked him and came to visit, which is amazing and sweet.

    Not sure whether you heard that or not. Just want to make sure. /s

  180. 180.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 6:09 pm

    @jl: St. Ronnie raised taxes, but I guess he was forced to do so by the evil Dems.

  181. 181.

    Steeplejack

    December 3, 2018 at 6:09 pm

    @Barbara:

    Bush gave us Willie Horton and elevated Lee Atwater to a principal position in the Republican Party.

    Since Bush died I have been seeing his apologists whitewashing the Willie Horton ad as being from an “independent group” over which he, sadly, had no control. Tsk.

    Wikipedia weighs in:

    Republicans eagerly picked up the Horton issue after Dukakis won the Democratic nomination. In June 1988, Republican candidate George H.W. Bush seized on the Horton case, bringing it up repeatedly in campaign speeches. Bush’s campaign manager Lee Atwater said, “By the time we’re finished, they’re going to wonder whether Willie Horton is Dukakis’s running mate.”

    [. . .]

    Beginning on September 21, 1988, the Americans for Bush arm of the National Security Political Action Committee (NSPAC), under the auspices of Floyd Brown, began running a campaign ad entitled “Weekend Passes,” using the Horton case to attack Dukakis. The ad was produced by media consultant Larry McCarthy, who had previously worked for Roger Ailes. After clearing the ad with television stations, McCarthy added a menacing mug shot of Horton, who is African American. The ad was run as an independent expenditure, separate from the Bush campaign, which claimed not to have had any role in its production. The ad referred to Horton as “Willie,” although he later said he had always gone by William.

    [. . .]

    In 1990, the Ohio Democratic Party and a group called “Black Elected Democrats of Ohio” filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission alleging that NSPAC had coordinated or cooperated with the Bush campaign in airing the ad, which would make it an illegal in-kind campaign contribution. Investigation by the FEC, including deposition of officials from both organizations, revealed indirect connections between McCarthy and the Bush campaign (such as his having previously worked for Ailes) but found no direct evidence of wrongdoing, and the investigation reached an impasse and was eventually closed with no finding of any violation of campaign finance laws.

  182. 182.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 6:10 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Don’t you go raising taxes, little boy, or your mother will walk on a crack and break your commie back.

  183. 183.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:10 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    so it depends on how awful the rest of the GOP is.

    Exactly. Thank you. That’s what I meant in far fewer words.

    No more curves! They’re bad! This is not the way to get high standards!

    “Be Best”- Best? There’s only one best. She’s ruining this word. They ruin everything.

    What’s wrong with saying “he was always polite to me” and just leaving it at that? That’s really such a huge accomplishment, not being an asshole?

  184. 184.

    Mnemosyne

    December 3, 2018 at 6:13 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    I don’t remember specifically, but it was probably one of KM Weiland’s books. She has separate ones on structure, outlining, and character arcs that are pretty comprehensive and get you to think about the whole story.

  185. 185.

    Ruckus

    December 3, 2018 at 6:16 pm

    @Kay:

    That’s really such a huge accomplishment, not being an asshole?

    It really is for people whose only goal in life is to be a bigger asshole than anyone else.

  186. 186.

    Aleta

    December 3, 2018 at 6:18 pm

    @KSinMA: Did James ever imagine that a Congress might surrender its power over a President and his judicial nominees?

  187. 187.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:19 pm

    As House Republicans were crafting their Obamacare repeal bill in the spring of 2017, Nancy Jacobson, the founder and CEO of No Labels, a group that promotes bipartisan governance, wanted to spice up her organization’s Twitter feed.
    So she turned to someone known for provocative political takes: her husband, longtime political operative Mark Penn.

    No Labels are exactly as sleazy and deceptive and grifter-ish as everyone with any sense knew they were, the moment they appeared.

    One good thing came out of the Pelosi fight- these clowns were exposed.

  188. 188.

    debbie

    December 3, 2018 at 6:21 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    No, by the even eviler David Stockman.

  189. 189.

    Mart

    December 3, 2018 at 6:21 pm

    @Yarrow: You could see the sorrow in Jr’s face as the 5,000 caskets came back from the war he lied the world into. Fuck the Bush’s.

  190. 190.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 6:21 pm

    @Kay: Does this mean he’s a snowflake? hmm

  191. 191.

    Yarrow

    December 3, 2018 at 6:22 pm

    @Kay: Someone needs to look into No Labels’ funding. I’d expect some foreign money in there.

  192. 192.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    @Ruckus:

    It’s nice he wrote personal notes to people! I give him 100% credit for the notes.

    It just doesn’t make him a saint. Letters to Maureen Dowd hoping to get favorable coverage? I don’t know- is that “nice” ? Wouldn’t that be more in the category of “strategic”?

  193. 193.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:24 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    St. Ronnie raised taxes,

    Only after learning the hard way that tax cuts are bad for the economy.

  194. 194.

    Baud

    December 3, 2018 at 6:25 pm

    Don’t y’all worry. The media will be plenty critical when Bill Clinton kicks the bucket. Enough to go around for all the dead presidents.

  195. 195.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 6:25 pm

    @ruemara:
    He was the anti-Hillary candidate

  196. 196.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:26 pm

    @Kay:

    No more curves! They’re bad! This is not the way to get high standards!

    A million college students cried out and were silenced.

  197. 197.

    Baud

    December 3, 2018 at 6:26 pm

    @Kay: There’s a label for groups like No Labels. It’s not a good label.

  198. 198.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:26 pm

    @Baud:

    The media will be plenty critical when Bill Clinton kicks the bucket. Enough to go around for all the dead presidents.

    I think Bill Clinton should be forced to lie with Ronald Reagan in the same grave.

    One last service to our country.

  199. 199.

    rikyrah

    December 3, 2018 at 6:27 pm

    @Kay:
    That is true. Expose these frauds

  200. 200.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 6:27 pm

    @Baud:
    Heck yeah, reports will all lead, “Flawed, controversial, serially investigated and then impeached William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd [whoops] president of the United States…”

  201. 201.

    FlipYrWhig

    December 3, 2018 at 6:27 pm

    @jl: @Steeplejack: I don’t remember anyone ever liking George H.W. Bush. He was a gaffe-prone zero throughout his political career and did a further zero after it ended. This whole thing with mourning him as a bygone hero (or whatever) feels like a lot of people insincerely going through the motions because it’s been awhile since a president died. And, I suppose, because the current president sucks so very, very badly.

  202. 202.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:30 pm

    @Yarrow:

    “The more one looks under the rock, the more one turns over that rock, it is not an attractive picture. It is a big fundraising operation run with limited results,” said one former No Labels official. “You go in first, there are donors, they’re having discussions and you think it’s healthy. And then you’re in it for a few months and you wonder, what are we doing?”

    I sometimes think we don’t get campaign finance reform because a lot of people are making a lot of money off our lack of regulation. This is an industry. It’s fundraising and campaigns and media buys and multi-millioniare cable tv stars. No one wants to cut out the money- 100,000 highly paid professionals would be out of work.

    No Labels held a one day “problem solvers” event – they spent a million dollars. WTF were they buying? How could it possibly cost that much?

  203. 203.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 6:31 pm

    @TenguPhule: Tax cuts are like Chinese Food, they leave you hungry after a few hours.

  204. 204.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 6:31 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:
    It was basically four years of “At least he’s not Reagan.”

  205. 205.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 3, 2018 at 6:32 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    St. Ronnie raised taxes

    On the poor and middle class. Overall, he shifted the tax burden from the rich towards the poor. Thus he was doing God’s work sticking it to the n-s and their liberal enablers.

  206. 206.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 6:33 pm

    @Baud: Jimmy Carter’s passing will be much, much worse than Bill Clinton. He was the original Jimmy Carter.

    (The guy who organizes the local photoshoots has joined the Cult of Prius.)

  207. 207.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 6:34 pm

    @TenguPhule: Heh, he’d probably hit on Nancy.

  208. 208.

    Aleta

    December 3, 2018 at 6:34 pm

    H.W. Bush

    Patrice Lumumba … was the first democratically chosen leader of the vast country … now known as the Democratic Republic of Congo. [Until 1960] this treasure house of natural resources had been a colony of Belgium, which for decades had made no plans for independence.
    …
    The Belgians, and their European and American fellow investors, expected to continue collecting profits from Congo’s factories, plantations and lucrative mines, which produced diamonds, gold, uranium, copper and more. But they had not planned on Lumumba.
    …
    Lumumba spoke forcefully of the violence and humiliations of colonialism, from the ruthless theft of African land to the way that French-speaking colonists talked to Africans as adults do to children, using the familiar “tu” instead of the formal “vous.” Political independence was not enough, he said; Africans had to also benefit from the great wealth in their soil.
    …
    After failing to get aid from the United States, Lumumba declared he would turn to the Soviet Union. Thousands of Belgian officials who lingered on did their best to sabotage things: their code word for Lumumba in military radio transmissions was “Satan.”

    Shortly after he took office as prime minister, the C.I.A., with White House approval, ordered his assassination and dispatched an undercover agent with poison. [He was unable to get close enough, so then] the United States and Belgium covertly funneled cash and aid to rival politicians who seized power and arrested the prime minister.
    …
    As a college student traveling through Africa on summer break, I was in Léopoldville (today’s Kinshasa), Congo’s capital, for a few days some six months after Lumumba’s murder. There was an air of tension and gloom in the city, jeeps full of soldiers were on patrol, and the streets quickly emptied at night. Above all, I remember the triumphant, macho satisfaction with which two young American Embassy officials — much later identified as C.I.A. men — talked with me over drinks about the death of someone they regarded not as an elected leader but as an upstart enemy of the United States.
    …
    A half-century later, we should surely look back on the death of Lumumba with shame, for we helped install the men who deposed and killed him. In the scholarly journal Intelligence and National Security,
    Stephen R. Weissman, a former staff director of the House Subcommittee on Africa, recently pointed out that Lumumba’s violent end foreshadowed today’s American practice of “extraordinary rendition.”

    The Congolese politicians who planned Lumumba’s murder checked all their major moves with their Belgian and American backers, and the local C.I.A. station chief made no objection when they told him they were going to turn Lumumba over — render him, in today’s parlance — to the breakaway government of Katanga, which, everyone knew, could be counted on to kill him.

    Still more fateful was what was to come. Four years later, one of Lumumba’s captors, an army officer named Joseph Mobutu, again with enthusiastic American support, staged a coup and began a disastrous, 32-year dictatorship. Just as geopolitics and a thirst for oil have today brought us unsavory allies like Saudi Arabia, so the cold war and a similar lust for natural resources did then.

    Mobutu was showered with more than $1 billion in American aid and enthusiastically welcomed to the White House by a succession of presidents; George H. W. Bush called him “one of our most valued friends.”

    This valued friend bled his country dry …. He let public services shrivel to nothing and roads and railways be swallowed by the rain forest. By 1997, when he was overthrown and died, his country was in a state of wreckage from which it has not yet recovered.

    Since that time the fatal combination of enormous natural riches and the dysfunctional government Mobutu left has ignited a long, multisided war that has killed huge numbers of Congolese or forced them from their homes. Many factors cause a war, of course, especially one as bewilderingly complex as this one. But when visiting eastern Congo some months ago, I could not help but think that one thread leading to the human suffering I saw begins with the assassination of Lumumba.

    We will never know the full death toll of the current conflict, but many believe it to be in the millions. Some of that blood is on our hands. Both ordering the murders of apparent enemies and then embracing their enemies as “valued friends” come with profound, long-term consequences — a lesson worth pondering on this anniversary.

    Adam Hochschild, NYT January 17, 2011

  209. 209.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:34 pm

    @Kay:

    No Labels held a one day “problem solvers” event – they spent a million dollars. WTF were they buying? How could it possibly cost that much?

    Ignorance. Which is expensive to manufacture in large quantities.

  210. 210.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 6:36 pm

    @Kay:

    No Labels held a one day “problem solvers” event – they spent a million dollars. WTF were they buying? How could it possibly cost that much?

    To be fair Kay, these were designer problems.

    ETA: I believe that some were Ivanka Trump signature items.

  211. 211.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:37 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Melania’s hotel bills were like 66k and that got attention. These people spent a million dollars for a bullshit one day event and no one bats an eye. mean, come on. Pad much?

  212. 212.

    ruemara

    December 3, 2018 at 6:39 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: My friend I was hanging with this Sat said that the citizenship timelines are now up to 18 months & counting. She’s at an immigration law firm (way, way over my budget), so I defer to her experience. I am hoping for 6-8 months.

    @Kay: Agreed.

  213. 213.

    Mnemosyne

    December 3, 2018 at 6:40 pm

    @ruemara:

    What the what? Is the West Coast office slammed with applications or something? That seems seriously crazy for someone who’s held a green card for as long as you have.

  214. 214.

    germy

    December 3, 2018 at 6:41 pm

    Rod Serling’s daughter tweeted this:

    pic.twitter.com/NkQa92Uusm— Anne Serling (@AnneSerling) December 1, 2018

  215. 215.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:42 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Jimmy Carter’s passing will be much, much worse than Bill Clinton. He was the original Jimmy Carter.

    I’m sure the Republicans will behave with grace and honor. //

  216. 216.

    debbie

    December 3, 2018 at 6:42 pm

    @germy:

    That photo would make the perfect caption contest!

  217. 217.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 6:43 pm

    @Kay: Hookers and blow for the press ain’t cheep.

  218. 218.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 6:43 pm

    @germy:
    Nice!

  219. 219.

    oatler.

    December 3, 2018 at 6:44 pm

    @germy: Coincidentally, “He’s Alive!” with Dennis Hopper aired last night.

  220. 220.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:44 pm

    @Kay:

    Melania’s hotel bills were like 66k and that got attention. These people spent a million dollars for a bullshit one day event and no one bats an eye. mean, come on. Pad much?

    You’ll notice that Melania’s overspending dropped off the grid literally the day after the story ran in favor of the next Trump squirrel shitting on the lawn and teasing the dogs.

  221. 221.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:45 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    That seems seriously crazy for someone who’s held a green card for as long as you have.

    Feature, not a bug after 2 years of State Dept being run into the rocks on a low tide.

  222. 222.

    debbie

    December 3, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    @oatler.:

    I just watched the intro to that episode. “Portrait of a man…”

  223. 223.

    germy

    December 3, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    @debbie: @trollhattan: @oatler.:
    “Submitted for your approval: A man with no soul, no conscience, no heart… finds himself in the Oval Office. But his real office… is in the Twilight Zone.”

  224. 224.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    To be fair Kay, these were designer problems.

    Designed to be problems.

  225. 225.

    jl

    December 3, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: I was snarking more on the inane corporate media coverage than GHW’s record of public service.
    As I noted previously, the guy was not able to stand up to the rising tide of Movement Conservatism that lead to Trumpism, as Josh Marshall noted earlier today.
    GHW may have played a constructive role in foreign policy, but as moral leader of the country’s politics, and how he did not seem to have either ability or desire to find a an effective way to battle the ever darker direction of the GOP, that is a big problem for his legacy. Even if the media doesn’t want to talk about it, in favor of yelling over and over again that he destroyed himself politically by raising taxes (YIKES and Jeepers Creepers, as pappy himself might have said!)

  226. 226.

    A Ghost To Most

    December 3, 2018 at 6:47 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Cult of Prius

    Hmm. Must not have gotten the invite. Or maybe they’ve seen how hard I can drive mine.

  227. 227.

    germy

    December 3, 2018 at 6:48 pm

    So… Jacob Wolh’s accomplice in the Mueller ratf*ck got shot in the ass?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/disgruntled-ex-employee-of-conspiracy-theorist-admits-shooting-him/2018/12/03/e5df4478-f719-11e8-8c9a-860ce2a8148f_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4b498d8707a7

  228. 228.

    debbie

    December 3, 2018 at 6:49 pm

    @germy:

    “Portrait of a man as he discovers he has no friends, not even the despots who seemed to like him so much. Instead, he sits alone … in the anteroom of the Twilight Zone.”

  229. 229.

    JPL

    December 3, 2018 at 6:49 pm

    OMG NBC nightly news just covered Michelle’s use of the shit word. In the words of the great EFG.. fuckem.

  230. 230.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:49 pm

    @SenMarkey
    4h4 hours ago
    More
    So excited to have a partner in the House in @Ocasio2018 who is ready to work on the bold, transformational action on #ClimateChange and #CleanEnergy we need. America needs a #GreenNewDeal, and we have the Congressional leadership to do it.

    Based on my unscientific samplings of the local high schoolers who wander thru my living room glowering sullenly at me, the Democrats may finally, finally have a group of people who are interested in the “green jobs” message we have been pushing for 20 years. They’re scared of global warming, the young ‘uns. It may be time.

  231. 231.

    sukabi

    December 3, 2018 at 6:49 pm

    @Kay: It may have cost a million (or so it says on the spreadsheet…cooked books never lie?) but I’ll bet they were able to squeeze their donors for at least twice that amount to pay for it…

  232. 232.

    debbie

    December 3, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    @JPL:

    If Trump uses it, why can’t she?

  233. 233.

    Ruckus

    December 3, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    @Kay:
    Yeah personal notes are time consuming. But at least you may have got the impression that he’s not just a robot politician. But really, personal notes are the best he’s got? Checks notes. Yep, that’s it.

    I’ve been on this blog for a few years and I have steadfastly been hammering that conservatism is the cure for a reasonable society. It has over the centuries been responsible for the deaths in at the least millions, but probably a higher order number than that. Conservatism is not just an American thing, it goes back to when humans had nothing and built upon that. And once they had something they fought hard to not lose whatever they had gained, be it a cave or a gilded mansion or a country. And if they got it by any means, they’ve never been afraid to keep it by the same. And that describes the current day republican party. They wanted a racist country controlled by the wealthy among them, they got it by not being true to the tenets of the country they live in and they are trying to keep it the same way.

  234. 234.

    Yarrow

    December 3, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    @Kay: I can’t imagine how such a thing could be a convenient way for foreign countries to influence our elections. How ever could that work?

    I sometimes think we don’t get campaign finance reform because a lot of people are making a lot of money off our lack of regulation. This is an industry. It’s fundraising and campaigns and media buys and multi-millioniare cable tv stars. No one wants to cut out the money- 100,000 highly paid professionals would be out of work.

    Only sometimes? To me it’s the main reason. People are making a ton of money off our current system. Businesses can manipulate it so they get what they want. The people who make things happen like it just the way it is. They get rich. It’s the rest of us what want it to change but we’re not rich and well-connected so it’s harder for us to get attention.

  235. 235.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:51 pm

    @JPL:

    Michelle’s free now though. It doesn’t matter what they say about her anymore.

  236. 236.

    A Ghost To Most

    December 3, 2018 at 6:52 pm

    @germy: There is a gremlin in the WH, and the MAGAts can’t/won’t see it.

  237. 237.

    John Revolta

    December 3, 2018 at 6:52 pm

    @Mart:

    You could see the sorrow in Jr’s face as the 5,000 caskets came back from the war he lied the world into

    Too bad we couldn’t see the caskets; they made it illegal to photograph them.

    @Steeplejack:

    Republicans eagerly picked up the Horton issue after Dukakis won they ratfucked Gary Hart out of the Democratic nomination.

    Lest we forget.

  238. 238.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:53 pm

    @Kay:

    It doesn’t matter what they say about her anymore.

    The media is determined to punish any Democrat for success as a warning to anyone tempted to follow in their footsteps.

  239. 239.

    TenguPhule

    December 3, 2018 at 6:54 pm

    @A Ghost To Most:

    There is a gremlin in the WH, and the MAGAts can’t/won’t see it.

    Correction, there are nothing but gremlins in this WH.

  240. 240.

    A Ghost To Most

    December 3, 2018 at 6:54 pm

    @Ruckus:
    Yup. Conservatism is the disease; Shit Hitler is a gangrenous symptom.

  241. 241.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    @Kay:
    Good. My 16YO thinks we’re too damn late and the entire family will croak, in unison, in 2025 when we fry/drown/starve/something else I haven’t considered.

    So much for the “Listen, about the whole fight climate change thing…” speech I’ve been crafting for her going off to college.

  242. 242.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:56 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Right, buying influence, but I mean just the nuts and bolts of the campaign industrial complex. The ads. The PACS. The pundits. It’s hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Everyone looks at what’s raised. I’m interested in how it’s spent. Who gets paid what.

    I think about it in Ohio. If Ohio isn’t a “swing state” anymore (real question) then they don’t pour hundreds of millions into media companies here anymore. Missouri used to be a swing state. I’d love to see a comparison, then and now, in millions.

  243. 243.

    Doug R

    December 3, 2018 at 6:58 pm

    @clay: Scott Free is the name of Ridley Scott’s production company-he should sue for trademark violation.

  244. 244.

    Kay

    December 3, 2018 at 6:59 pm

    @trollhattan:

    My 16 year says he has “existential dread” about it, which surprised me, because he’s fairly cheerful. He was serious, if maybe a tad overly dramatic.

    I used to make fun of “green jobs” Democrats said it so much :)

    Now it’s new again. Maybe it’ll take this time.

  245. 245.

    MisterForkbeard

    December 3, 2018 at 7:02 pm

    @Kay: Yep! Though I’ve also noticed that most of the politically uninvolved have just assumed that the “green jobs” thing is new and they’re forcing Democrats do it, rather than seeing that we’ve been pushing it for 20-30 years.

    Nobody likes to admit they haven’t been paying attention and were wrong.

  246. 246.

    Amir Khalid

    December 3, 2018 at 7:03 pm

    @NotMax:
    T’was originally “scotch-free”. Will Shakespeare had Lady Macbeth say, “We have scotched [wounded] the snake, not killed it.”

  247. 247.

    trollhattan

    December 3, 2018 at 7:03 pm

    @Kay:
    These kids are paying attention, to this as well as guns, gender rights and women’s rights. I’m hoping it sticks because we need them all.

    Merely ridding ourselves of Trump’s tariff on imported PV panels will give a big boost to domestic solar installations and surprisingly, you can convince a Republican they’re a good idea when he’s not shoveling as much into the electricity bill.

  248. 248.

    Platonaileit

    December 3, 2018 at 7:06 pm

    Criminal statutes for this news cycle:

    18 USC 1512 -witness tampering
    15 USC 78dd-1 -FCPA
    18 USC 1503 -obstruction of justice
    18 USC 1505 -obstruction of Congressional proceedings
    18 USC 371 -conspiracy to obstruct
    18 USC 1622 -suborning perjury
    18 USC 1001 -false statements
    26 USC 7201 – tax evasion
    52 USC 31201 – prohibition on campaign contributions by foreign nationals
    52 USC 30116 – limitations on campaign contributions
    22 USC 614 – Foreign Agent Registration Act
    18 USC 1956 – Money Laundering

    We are all Ukrainians lawyers now.

  249. 249.

    J R in WV

    December 3, 2018 at 7:08 pm

    My take is that G H W Bush was a war criminal who’s running mate committed treason with the Iranians in order to beat President Carter. Reagan was willing to keep American diplomats in captivity longer in order to win election, and did so. Treason!

    Then Reagan’s administration, in which G H W Bush was second in command, sold weapons to the Iranians illegally, and used the funds raised to seed death squads in Central America, which are still causing major problems both there and here at home.

    Both Bushes were and are War Criminals, and broke as many laws as Trump, just not for personal profit, as Bush was already from a wealthy family smart enough to keep their money across generations. No sympathy for any of them!

  250. 250.

    A Ghost To Most

    December 3, 2018 at 7:09 pm

    MSNBC just reported “Mueller is tying up loose ends”. Are you ready to rumble?

  251. 251.

    A Ghost To Most

    December 3, 2018 at 7:10 pm

    @J R in WV:

    All that, and his shit treatment of HIV victims.

  252. 252.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 3, 2018 at 7:12 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Thanks! That’s all I needed. That’s the author and I found her Outlining Your Novel book on Amazon. Pretty certain that’s the one you suggested.

  253. 253.

    Viva BrisVegas

    December 3, 2018 at 7:16 pm

    @Kay:

    If Ohio isn’t a “swing state” anymore (real question)

    The 2018 Ohio House of Representatives elections:

    Republicans: 52.27% of the total vote, 75% of the districts, average winning margin 9.2%.
    Democrats: 47% of the total vote, 25% of the districts, average winning margin 20.1%.

    It looks to me like Ohio could be a swing state, if the Republicans allowed it to be.

  254. 254.

    Ruckus

    December 3, 2018 at 7:24 pm

    @A Ghost To Most:
    You really think MSNBC knows anything?
    We’ve had how many months of not one word out of the DOJ, they just arrest and present indictments when they are ready. Do you think they are going to leak now?
    The only way MSNBC knows is if they saw a gaggle of FBI/DOJ jump in vehicles and head for several locations at speed. And they wouldn’t be the only ones to see that.

  255. 255.

    Yarrow

    December 3, 2018 at 7:26 pm

    @A Ghost To Most: I think it’ll be after GHW Bush’s burial on Thursday. Maybe we’ll get Indictment Friday again.

    @Kay: Oh, I agree. I just meant that those who are getting paid are often getting paid a lot and also have little incentive to change the system. They’re in the system and they like it just fine. We should look at how it’s being spent. What companies get the contracts? Like maybe Old Towne Media in the 2016 election.

  256. 256.

    ruemara

    December 3, 2018 at 7:29 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I’ve been hearing about them slow walking applications going back to last year. My friend just renewed her green card and the costs have also gone up to nearly as much as citizenship. so nearly $600 while citizenship is nearly $800. I think I’ll have less issues, but yeah, got to be aware of what could be while not obsessing over it.

  257. 257.

    MisterForkbeard

    December 3, 2018 at 7:32 pm

    @ruemara: This is only somewhat related, but one of the people that works for me has her H1-B application pushed back regularly, and her citizenship ‘queue’ is getting much longer for basically no reason.

    I have Philippine friends who tell me the same thing. They’re encountering a lot of resistance to what used to be a complicated but otherwise ordinary path forward.

  258. 258.

    Kayla Rudbek

    December 3, 2018 at 7:35 pm

    @trollhattan: if there was a single rational government or funding organization anywhere, there would be a hell of a lot more R&D on CO2 mitigation than there currently is, says this Generation X crabby bat in training.

  259. 259.

    sm*t cl*de

    December 3, 2018 at 7:38 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    T’was originally “scotch-free”. Will Shakespeare had Lady Macbeth say, “We have scotched [wounded] the snake, not killed it.”

    ‘In fact, a scot or secot was a municipal tax in 12 th-century England and someone who went scot-free was one who succeeded in dodging the tax.’

  260. 260.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 3, 2018 at 7:41 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: H1-Bs cannot apply for citizenship. You have to be a permanent resident for at least 5 years (3 years if married to a US citizen). The wait is probably for the green card. India, China, Mexico and Phillipines have the longest wait times, because the number of GCs (other than for spouses and children of US citizens) are capped per year according to the country of origin and these 4 countries have a lot of immigrants applying for GCs.

  261. 261.

    MisterForkbeard

    December 3, 2018 at 7:43 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Yeah. What I meant is that her total timeline for expected citizen has been expanding quite a bit and I… well, described the whole process very badly. Thanks for making the whole thing clearer.

  262. 262.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 3, 2018 at 7:43 pm

    @ruemara: There is a lot of regional variation, once you send in your application you can check the status of your application on the USCIS website.

  263. 263.

    Gex

    December 3, 2018 at 7:43 pm

    Haberman is the kind of ignoramus who is probably proud to be hated by both sides and thinks it means she’s doing something right.

  264. 264.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 3, 2018 at 8:05 pm

    @A Ghost To Most: Your Toyota dealer must have messed up the paperwork.

  265. 265.

    The Lodger

    December 3, 2018 at 8:10 pm

    @Doug R: DC (Time Warner) has heavier lawyers, but they’ll never sue.

  266. 266.

    afanasia

    December 3, 2018 at 8:21 pm

    @germy: If I ever buy another dictionary, it will be Merriam-Webster.

  267. 267.

    Platonaileit

    December 3, 2018 at 8:35 pm

    The totus asshole ought to be impeached and jailed just for his atrocious murdering of language alone. Ignorant twit on the twitter.

  268. 268.

    catclub

    December 3, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    @Viva BrisVegas: Ohio GOP are pikers, Try Alabama: 7 seats, 40% of vote is democrats, 1 seat of seven.

  269. 269.

    J R in WV

    December 3, 2018 at 9:22 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    I think Bill Clinton should be forced to lie with Ronald Reagan in the same grave.

    One last service to our country.

    Now why would you say something like that? Just an evil person? Ignorant? Maybe, if I cut you a break, just pig ignorant. If you don’t know any better. Otherwise just evil.

    Fuck you, asshole, for being that ignorant. Or perhaps that evil… in either case, fuck you, pie monster. I’ll never hear from you again. Thanks to cleek and Major^4! Praise me!

    With a rusty chain saw!!

  270. 270.

    artem1s

    December 4, 2018 at 10:54 am

    I’m thinking Mueller may leave the family members until after the new Congress is sworn in. that is when the real obstruction will begin. so he’s likely to want some real backup when the subpoena for Ivanka and Junior hits the fan.

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