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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Russiagate Open Thread: Never Trust Turks Bearing Gifts

Russiagate Open Thread: Never Trust Turks Bearing Gifts

by Anne Laurie|  December 17, 20189:57 pm| 102 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Dolt 45, domestic terrorists, Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Republican Venality, Russiagate

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Michael Flynn's business partner is being charged with illegally lobbying for Turkey and conspiracy for attempting to get Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen extradited from the US https://t.co/lhBunIooXw

— Vera Bergengruen (@VeraMBergen) December 17, 2018

Just yesterday, the Turkish government was bragging that the Trump administration was about to extradite Gulen. (Trump’s agents have denied this, at least once news of the Kian indictment broke.)

Granted that Fethullah Gulen may be a cult leader and a very bad person (although foreign policy experts say not responsible for that coup), but it’s never a good idea for the titular head of the American government to give other countries the impression that extraditions are available if the right ‘fixers’ are employed.

TO BE CLEAR: Trump's first National Security Advisor, who absent the Russia investigation might still wield incredible power, is formally implicated in a scheme to forcibly remove a legal US resident on behalf of an autocratic foreign government. https://t.co/TIwudIGoT7

— Zeddy (@Zeddary) December 17, 2018

According to the indictment, Flynn didn't write the op-ed at all. Bijan Rafiekian did. And if I'm reading paragraph 47 correctly, Rafiekian sent a draft to The Hill to be edited before Flynn ever saw it. pic.twitter.com/CyXzHhTxbt

— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) December 17, 2018

Mike Flynn's Turkish business partner Ekim Alptekin was indicted today for breaking lobbying laws and lying to the FBI. Here's a piece I did on his defiant defense of his lobbying at a business conference he hosted at, where else, the Trump hotel https://t.co/CFO0m4sL2F

— Paul Blumenthal (@PaulBlu) December 17, 2018


Must read profile of the person at the center of this Turkish lobbying saga, the Turkish businessman who hired and paid Flynn and Kian (via @borzou) https://t.co/UU3N2rAfv1

— Vera Bergengruen (@VeraMBergen) December 17, 2018

And I can’t find my Mueller “Can these guys stop doing crimes for one minute so I could wrap this thing up” gif…

If Mueller was just desperate to find crimes he wouldn't be farming out all these other cases against Cohen, the NRA, Patten, Kian etc etc to other jurisdictions. All incredible corruption implicating Trumpworld and his plate's already too stacked to bother with it.

— Zeddy (@Zeddary) December 17, 2018

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Reader Interactions

102Comments

  1. 1.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:03 pm

    Bijan Kian worked on the White House transition team. Because of course he did!

  2. 2.

    Mary G

    December 17, 2018 at 10:05 pm

    If Twitler and Kid Jared can handwave away, and possibly even approve beforehand, Saudi Arabia’s murder of Jamal Khashoggi, they were probably quite willing to, for the right price, sell this guy out too.

  3. 3.

    Jay

    December 17, 2018 at 10:10 pm

    $5 Dollar Feminist at Wonkette has a good post up on the IRA ratfuckery reports,

    https://www.wonkette.com/memes-the-russians-hacked-us-with-f-cking-memes

    Wasn’t just memes, included merch sites and support sites that could have been used for not just data harvesting, but blackmail.

  4. 4.

    Villago Delenda Est

    December 17, 2018 at 10:10 pm

    It is ludicrous beyond the bounds of credibility that Michael Flynn did not know that lying to the FBI is a crime. He was explicitly briefed on Department of the Army policy concerning foreign payments to retirees, specifically that they must be approved prior. He is as guilty as sin, and then some…an utter disgrace to the uniform he once wore.

    Mueller was exceptionally kind in his sentencing recommendation, and Flynn’s attorneys dare to question it.

  5. 5.

    Keith P.

    December 17, 2018 at 10:12 pm

    it’s never a good idea for the titular head of the American government to give other countries the impression that extraditions are available if the right ‘fixers’ are employed.

    Or have said titular head have his son-in-law tell other countries that they can kill whomever they want as long as tit-head winds up looking good and gets his name on a desert hotel.

  6. 6.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    @Jay: They had the whole operation well in hand:

    Can we also step back to contemplate… Cambridge Analytica's Facebook data identified a large enough demographic of likely Republican voters made up of compulsive masturbators that the Russians created not just targeted memes but an actual hotline with live operators. https://t.co/artCfM2Upt

    — Ted Genoways (@TedGenoways) December 17, 2018

  7. 7.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2018 at 10:16 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    For him, I’m hoping he is recalled to active duty, court martialed , and either bounced out with nothing, or perhaps reduced to 2nd Lt and discharged with the smallest pension in military history. From Lt General to 2nd Lt, quite a drop!!

    Won’t ask for Leavenworth with Marine guards. But that would be sweet too.

  8. 8.

    Jeffro

    December 17, 2018 at 10:17 pm

    Just saw something on Twitter, Chris Matthews musing aloud whether or not Mueller will let Ivanka and Don Jr go free if Don Sr resigns.

    Yo, Chris, STFU! We don’t want him resigning before it’s all out there! DJT deserves a (digital? social media? actual/physical?) tarring-and-feathering before he ends up pleading and begging for a pittance to live on while we RICO the shit out of his “fortune” and melt down his solid gold toilets to pay for the mess he’s caused this country.

  9. 9.

    rikyrah

    December 17, 2018 at 10:18 pm

    Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) Tweeted:
    NEW: Nancy PELOSI is winning a fight to suppress impeachment fervor among Democrats. She’s convinced them to focus on protecting MUELLER and waiting for his findings.

    Even those who voted to debate impeachment now suggest patience. Story w/ @dsamuelsohn

    https://t.co/xU7jMi3PRV https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1074639397016997888?s=17

  10. 10.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:18 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Here’s the Flynn 302:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1heLPp5FDy687Zgh344g7BK6sliaivYYu/view

  11. 11.

    Platonailedit

    December 17, 2018 at 10:18 pm

    BREAKING: Roger Stone has just settled a $100M defamation suit in which he admits to spreading lies on Alex Jones' InfoWars
    You hear that you loony right wing nuts? Stone admitted to spreading FAKE NEWS on INFOWARS!!
    Not, CNN
    Not MSNBC
    Not the New York Times
    INFOWARS!
    — Brian Krassenstein (@krassenstein) December 18, 2018

  12. 12.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 17, 2018 at 10:19 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: “Reach out to me and we will beat it together.” Great slogan.

  13. 13.

    rikyrah

    December 17, 2018 at 10:19 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    And helped pick the National Security apparatus…including Pompeo??

  14. 14.

    Jeffro

    December 17, 2018 at 10:20 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Could I please just get a glimpse of some other reality? Please? I’d like to know that somewhere in the Multiverse, this does not exist.

  15. 15.

    Platonailedit

    December 17, 2018 at 10:21 pm

    Dear Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson): I'm an immigrant. Irish Spring soap cleans my skin the same way it cleans your skin. My parents were poor. They worked hard and started a successful business. Now their son is in Congress.

    So take your hatred of immigrants and shove it. https://t.co/I2cOv4nlLi

    — Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) December 18, 2018

  16. 16.

    Lapassionara

    December 17, 2018 at 10:21 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: I think he could be charged with other crimes. Because he cooperated, Mueller picked this lesser crime to charge him with and asked for leniency.

  17. 17.

    Viva BrisVegas

    December 17, 2018 at 10:25 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The FoxNews line that Flynn is not a liar, just an unfortunate who was trapped by underhanded FBI agents, is kind of undermined by the fact that Flynn was actually fired by Trump himself for lying to Pence. Or at least needed to be fired to provide plausible deniability for Pence.

  18. 18.

    Platonailedit

    December 17, 2018 at 10:25 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: I just hope Mueller has other indictments waiting for this traitorous ingrate for I am sure this thug has other serious crimes up in his sleeves.

  19. 19.

    different-church-lady

    December 17, 2018 at 10:29 pm

    @rikyrah: Impeach too soon and fail, you don’t get a second shot.

    Really, the only game here is wait for it to become insupportable, threaten impeachment, and force resignation.

    If he digs in, you have to have the votes in the Senate to convict. Otherwise he comes out stronger.

    Insert quote that everyone thinks comes from Shakespeare here.

  20. 20.

    Jay

    December 17, 2018 at 10:30 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Meuller had Flynn charged for lying to the FBI about Russian contacts and “collusion” between the Insane Clown POSus and the Russians.

    Flynn’s still on the hook completely for the Gullen Affair.

  21. 21.

    NotMax

    December 17, 2018 at 10:30 pm

    The Dung Turks.

  22. 22.

    Mnemosyne

    December 17, 2018 at 10:31 pm

    You know who will have subpoena power and doesn’t mind pissing off the Turkish government? Adam Schiff.

    A large number of Schiff’s constituents are Armenian-Americans, so they’ll cheer him on all the way if he takes on the Turkish government.

  23. 23.

    eemom

    December 17, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    Never trust Turks bearing gifts.

    Never trust Turks, period. /Greek

  24. 24.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    @rikyrah: This is a very smart strategy. It does two things: 1) It lets the pressure build in public, which increases the discomfort of Republicans in the House and Senate and 2) It deprives the President of a concrete, tangible, extant threat from the Democratic majority House that he can use as a foil in his reelection campaign to rally his supporters.

  25. 25.

    Mnemosyne

    December 17, 2018 at 10:33 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    “Exit hurriedly, pursued by a bear”?

    Technically it’s a stage direction, not a quote.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    December 17, 2018 at 10:33 pm

    @Jay

    Being named in today’s unsealed court documents as an unindicted co-conspirator is not completely off the hook.

    It may not be all which some wish to see but it still ain’t chopped liver.

  27. 27.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:37 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: They used whatever they could get their hands on.//

  28. 28.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:37 pm

    @Viva BrisVegas: And that’s why Mueller released the Flynn 302:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1heLPp5FDy687Zgh344g7BK6sliaivYYu/view

  29. 29.

    NotMax

    December 17, 2018 at 10:38 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    Walter Scott murmuring something about webs and tangling comes to mind. Right on the tip of my tongue…

    ;)

  30. 30.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:39 pm

    @Jay: And that will likely not be handled by the Special Counsel’s Office. Today’s indictments were in the Eastern District of Virginia.

  31. 31.

    NotMax

    December 17, 2018 at 10:40 pm

    Should Flynn live long enough, perhaps he can be fired a third time by a U.S. president. //

  32. 32.

    zhena gogolia

    December 17, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    God, I knew someone on here would notice that.

  33. 33.

    Jay

    December 17, 2018 at 10:42 pm

    @NotMax:

    Not Scott Free?

    Anybody seen him around lately?

    Is he another one of those guys who committed suicide by beating himself to death then zipping himself up in a big gym bag?

  34. 34.

    Gwangung

    December 17, 2018 at 10:42 pm

    These yo-yos are providing full employment for various US attorney offices….

  35. 35.

    rikyrah

    December 17, 2018 at 10:43 pm

    Moonves is NOT getting his severance package from CBS??

  36. 36.

    Geoboy

    December 17, 2018 at 10:43 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Of course, the judge doesn’t have to follow the prosecutor’s sentencing recommendation. Since they didn’t bother going for the obvious (to me) charge of treason, instead of the death penalty let’s throw him in military prison for, say, 25 years, as an example to any other retired general officers who might be tempted to do something similar. And while we’re at, for good measure let’s throw his idiot, unrepentant son in there with him.

  37. 37.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Just for the record, I do not have subpoena power, but I too am named Adam and have no qualms about pissing of the Erdogan government. One of my former students, who I was the front line supervisor for, has been missing since the attempted coup. He was actually on an assignment at NATO in Brussels. I can’t confirm it, but it appears he was scarfed up. Or he’s gone to ground. I’ve not been able to reach his family either. I’ve been very concerned for the past couple of years.

  38. 38.

    Jay

    December 17, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Shouldn’t you be busy with getting Alexa to order mor yarn, mor pushpins, and mor walls?

  39. 39.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:47 pm

    @NotMax: My impression is that if they can make an attempted kidnapping case, he may still have some liability. If they don’t try to do that, then he’s probably going to only be punished to the extent possible under his plea agreement for cooperation with the Special Counsel’s Office.

  40. 40.

    different-church-lady

    December 17, 2018 at 10:47 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Just for the record, I do not have subpoena power…

    Well then what the hell good is it being a front-pager?

  41. 41.

    dmsilev

    December 17, 2018 at 10:49 pm

    @different-church-lady: He can embed graphical Tweets into comments. Compared to that, subpoena power is puny indeed.

  42. 42.

    NotMax

    December 17, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    @Geoboy

    Treason is deucedly difficult to prosecute, requiring either open confession or the testimony of two separate witnesses to an “overt act.” Also clearly defining what the Constitution means by “enemies” (see: Article III Section 3 of the Constitution).

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    @Jay: Scott Free is right here:

    By the Source!!!

  44. 44.

    Ken

    December 17, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    Insert quote that everyone thinks comes from Shakespeare here.

    “Betruth milord, know ye not? Three of four wise sayings and nine of ten learnéd studies shewn on the internet are but pleasing fantasies, dreams and memes woven of mist and moonbeams.” – Puck, A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III Scene 4.

  45. 45.

    different-church-lady

    December 17, 2018 at 10:51 pm

    @dmsilev: Ah. So he’s chosen to use his power for evil.

  46. 46.

    Bobby Thomson

    December 17, 2018 at 10:52 pm

    @rikyrah: Good. Americans are slow learners.

  47. 47.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:52 pm

    @rikyrah: Too bad CBS couldn’t sever his package.

    What?

  48. 48.

    different-church-lady

    December 17, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    Uh… people? The “quote everyone thinks comes from Shakespeare” does… not come from Shakespeare…

  49. 49.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    @Jay: All taken care of.

  50. 50.

    different-church-lady

    December 17, 2018 at 10:54 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    What?

    Nothing. Nothing at all.

  51. 51.

    dmsilev

    December 17, 2018 at 10:55 pm

    @different-church-lady: Wouldn’t we all?

  52. 52.

    NotMax

    December 17, 2018 at 10:56 pm

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Would have liked to have seen Betty White playing Granny Goodness. She’ll be 97 next month, so time is not on the side of that happening.

  53. 53.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:56 pm

    @different-church-lady: Apparently I get to fish all the comments out of moderation I care too.

    Other than that, there do not appear to be any other real benefits.

  54. 54.

    Jay

    December 17, 2018 at 10:57 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Sorry Adam.

  55. 55.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:58 pm

    @NotMax: I’m just excited that Ava DuVernay is going to be directing a New Gods movie.

  56. 56.

    Ken

    December 17, 2018 at 10:58 pm

    @different-church-lady: So neither Francis Bacon nor Edward De Vere wrote the quote…. hmmm…. Can you give us another clue?

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 10:59 pm

    @Jay: Thank you. It is what it is. I’m hopeful he and his family were able to go to ground and that’s why they’re unreachable.

  58. 58.

    NotMax

    December 17, 2018 at 11:01 pm

    @Ken

    Cue Yakko, Wakko and Dot.

    “I’m not touching that one.”

    :)

  59. 59.

    different-church-lady

    December 17, 2018 at 11:01 pm

    @Ken: OK: It wasn’t Harold Pinter.

  60. 60.

    Amir Khalid

    December 17, 2018 at 11:03 pm

    A few quibbles:
    POTUS is not merely a titular head of government but the chief executive thereof. (Although now I come to think of it, you could be right in saying that all Trump really does is hold the title.)
    As Gulen’s Wikipedia entry tells it, he leads a movement focused on education and interfaith dialogue. While he draws on Sufism a great deal, Sufism is not per se fundamentalist or exclusionary the way e.g. Wahabism is. And it would seem that neither is his movement. So I would be uncomfortable with calling it a cult.

    @Gin & Tonic:
    I found that puzzling. If Jesus wants to join you in a circle jerk, how is he against masturbation?

  61. 61.

    The Dangerman

    December 17, 2018 at 11:03 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    “Reach out to me and we will beat it together.” Great slogan.

    Once saw a butcher shop with a sign saying “You can’t beat our meat”. I wasn’t sure whether to tell them.

  62. 62.

    Jay

    December 17, 2018 at 11:05 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Hopefully, they got out and are staying low, or are safe at home, and just staying out of contact so as to not ignite suspicion.

    During purges, even the innocent are guilty, for reasons from outside contacts to owning something of value, to filling a quota.

  63. 63.

    different-church-lady

    December 17, 2018 at 11:06 pm

    @The Dangerman: They probably knew.

  64. 64.

    Amir Khalid

    December 17, 2018 at 11:06 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    And display it in the main lobby: “Let this be a lesson to all.”

  65. 65.

    NotMax

    December 17, 2018 at 11:07 pm

    @The Dangerman

    Oh, they knew full well what they were doing.

    Was the place named Portnoy’s by any chance?

    :)

  66. 66.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 11:09 pm

    @Jay: Yep, yep, and unfortunately.

  67. 67.

    Burnspbesq

    December 17, 2018 at 11:10 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Flynn’s attorneys dare to question it.

    Flynn’s attorneys are ethically obligated to push as hard as possible, consistent with the applicable law and the rules of professional conduct, to minimize his sentence.

    You know that as well as I do.

    Just stop.

  68. 68.

    sukabi

    December 17, 2018 at 11:11 pm

    @J R in WV: he needs to be busted out as a private.

  69. 69.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 11:11 pm

    Ken White dba Popehat has thoughts on Flynn’s sentencing tomorrow. Some guy who needs more tinfoil has thoughts about Ken White’s thoughts:

    That said, naturally the judge could also vacate Flynn's conviction, send the Special Counsel lawyers to Gitmo, and fire the flare that makes a great glowing Q-shaped brand in the sky signifying that all never-Trumpers are subject to the great purge.

    — BigCrimeHat (@Popehat) December 18, 2018

    It's right there in the case number: 1:17-cr-00232-EGS. "1": the one to watch. "17": q. "CR": coming reckoning. "00": no one will escape. "232": the 232,000 coming indictments. "EGS": ever growing storm.

    I don't get why this is so hard for some people.

    — Christopher S. Case (@Macguyvok) December 18, 2018

  70. 70.

    NotMax

    December 17, 2018 at 11:23 pm

    @Adam L. Silverman

    I don’t get why this is so hard for some people.

    Plain as the schnozz on yer kisser in the original German.

    ;)

  71. 71.

    gorram

    December 17, 2018 at 11:37 pm

    *Gülen, gÜlen – I dunno what it is that people ~refuse~ to use diacritics they’ll manage for German-language figures when it comes to (for the exact same diacritics) Turkish names…

  72. 72.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 17, 2018 at 11:37 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Something about Free’s face in those videos gives me the creeps, but I can’t put my finger on why.

  73. 73.

    gorram

    December 17, 2018 at 11:39 pm

    Like, I’d forgive turning the ğ into a g in Erdoğan because ğ is comparatively uncommon, outside of Turkic languages, but for ü, ö, ä, and ç, generally speaking Western outlets play attention to them in German, French, Spanish, and Portuguese names but resolutely refuse to use them when it comes to Turkish ones, in spite of being literally the same diacritics.

  74. 74.

    dmsilev

    December 17, 2018 at 11:45 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Don’t rhinos have thicker skins than most judges? It is true however that you want to avoid being charged by either one.

  75. 75.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 17, 2018 at 11:51 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That said, naturally the judge could also vacate Flynn’s conviction, send the Special Counsel lawyers to Gitmo, and fire the flare that makes a great glowing Q-shaped brand in the sky signifying that all never-Trumpers are subject to the great purge.

    Something like that will probably eventually happen if McConnell gets his way with remaking the federal judiciary.

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 17, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: They were trying to animate him close to how Kirby drew him in the comics. The first video, which is the episode’s opening scene is an homage to this:
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35508961-mister-miracle-1971-1978-5

    Here’s the original Kirby art:
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4-M4O4LivWk/WR8ZGLQvN0I/AAAAAAAApcg/-mzz_el-ETUgAZMzkiV1yhlN9P3D8eVUQCLcB/s1600/mm4_004.png

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgspWlQeGA-KrjyDtXw07CKq3jVpAnyIA8WGE-wdMFvgiW9j3Y

  77. 77.

    dm

    December 17, 2018 at 11:54 pm

    @different-church-lady: I assume you mean the one that’s actually from The Wire.

  78. 78.

    Jay

    December 17, 2018 at 11:59 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Gulinist critiques center around the claims that Gulinist’s promote Gulinists.

    There’s a long history in Turkey, and before that, the Ottoman Empire, of the powers behind the throne, and it never really got better.

  79. 79.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 17, 2018 at 11:59 pm

    Also too, I wanted to share this cute gif of a rabbit and cat

  80. 80.

    NotMax

    December 18, 2018 at 12:00 am

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Read them when they first came out but was never much of a fan of Kirby’s heavy-handed application of Apokolips shtick.

  81. 81.

    Mart

    December 18, 2018 at 12:02 am

    All these “dumb crooks” i.e. top Trump staff – must have the prion disease so bad that they thought with the Mighty Trump, Fox and related propaganda, and congress – all rules were moot; and they could could loot as it pleased them.

  82. 82.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 18, 2018 at 12:04 am

    @NotMax: I have found that the best 4th World/New Gods/Apokolips stories have often been written by others than Kirby.

  83. 83.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 18, 2018 at 12:15 am

    @Adam L Silverman:
    That didn’t work out so well, for me at least. He’s in uncanny valley territory for me.

  84. 84.

    Yarrow

    December 18, 2018 at 12:18 am

    I’m so tired that when I see Gulen my brain turns it into Giuliani and I think, “I’m sure it’s wrong that someone wants to extradite him to Turkey but I’m having a hard time feeling it.”

  85. 85.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    December 18, 2018 at 12:28 am

    @Yarrow:
    I’m sure Turkey wouldn’t want the Rudy Ghoul in their country anyway. His stupidity might be contagious.

    Also, to answer your question from downstairs, I sometimes tailgate Trumpists to “own the conservatards”.

    I only do it for a few brief seconds anyway. I haven’t done it in awhile, if that makes you feel any better and don’t plan on doing so again.

  86. 86.

    oldgold

    December 18, 2018 at 12:34 am

    @Burnspbesq:
    Yes, attorneys are obligated to zealously represent their clients within the bounds of the law. But, in legal representation, like every other professional endeavor, zealotry has its limits. In the instant case, Flynn’s attorneys went too far and in so doing put their client at greater risk.

  87. 87.

    different-church-lady

    December 18, 2018 at 12:44 am

    @dm: It so ought to be from Shakespeare.

  88. 88.

    danielx

    December 18, 2018 at 12:47 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    How in the hell…..how the fuck did this guy ever get to be a LtGen?

  89. 89.

    ljt

    December 18, 2018 at 12:54 am

    @different-church-lady: Quote please? I’m feeling especially overwhelmed and numb today.

  90. 90.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    December 18, 2018 at 12:56 am

    @different-church-lady: If there’s any TV show that’s genuinely Shakespearean other than actual Shakespeare adaptations, it’s The Wire.

    I was assuming you meant Nietzsche’s “That which doesn’t kill me makes me stronger” quote, but The Wire quote is of course even better.

    …@ljt: “You come at the king, you best not miss.” I assume that’s the one she’s referencing, anyway.

  91. 91.

    danielx

    December 18, 2018 at 12:57 am

    @ljt:

    I believe it goes like this:

    You come at the king, you best not miss.

  92. 92.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 18, 2018 at 12:58 am

    @danielx: He was a very good tactical and operational intel targeteer.

  93. 93.

    ljt

    December 18, 2018 at 1:05 am

    @(((CassandraLeo))): @danielx: Of course…thank you.

  94. 94.

    Another Scott

    December 18, 2018 at 1:10 am

    @Amir Khalid: Thanks. I haven’t looked closely, but this is the first non-Erdogan piece I’ve ever seen that “grants” that there might (or is?) something hinky about Gulen. It left a bad taste and seems unnecessary.

    Erdogan is a monster and a wannabe tyrant. Gulen isn’t in the same league by any means, AFAIK, and if someone wants to say or imply otherwise, then s/he should show their work.

    IMHO.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  95. 95.

    Fair Economist

    December 18, 2018 at 1:47 am

    @rikyrah:

    NEW: Nancy PELOSI is winning a fight to suppress impeachment fervor among Democrats. She’s convinced them to focus on protecting MUELLER and waiting for his findings.

    Remember the real problem is not Trump, but the political manipulation system the Russians used to get him elected. Impeaching Trump is at best the cherry on the top of the real dessert. I suspect Nancy has been told this in the intelligence briefings for top Congressional members, although they would have to phrase it differently because Ryan and McConnell get them too.

  96. 96.

    Doug R

    December 18, 2018 at 3:11 am

    @different-church-lady: Democrats got the biggest recorded margin ever in 2018. I think it’s MORE dangerous NOT to IMPEACH.

  97. 97.

    Sab

    December 18, 2018 at 3:38 am

    @gorram: Thank you. I don’t know anything about Turkish phonics, but I could never understand how his name could have it’s pronunciation what with the spelling. That thingy over the “g” makes sense. So it’s basically a whole different consonant, and western media pretends it’s just a usual “g” when it isn’t. What is that “thingy ” called?

  98. 98.

    Amir Khalid

    December 18, 2018 at 3:40 am

    @Jay:
    Gulen and his people using their influence to do each other favours is not the greatest thing in the world, agreed; but it seems rather less malign than Erdogan’s authoritarianism.

  99. 99.

    sm*t cl*de

    December 18, 2018 at 3:59 am

    @Sab:

    That thingy over the “g” makes sense. So it’s basically a whole different consonant, and western media pretends it’s just a usual “g” when it isn’t.

    It’s not even a consonant! The g-breve in Turkish is a way of separating two vowels so they don’t run together (and modifying them, depending on context) but it doesn’t have its own sound.

  100. 100.

    David Evans

    December 18, 2018 at 5:12 am

    @danielx: That crossed my mind. It’s a great line, but you would need a tin ear to think it came from Shakespeare.

  101. 101.

    Chris Johnson

    December 18, 2018 at 6:00 am

    @Doug R: No.

    Impeach, and everyone can act like it’s Trump doing all the bad stuff.

    It’s much of the Republican Party, plus the NRA, and who knows what else. Nancy is right and probably put it in those terms. You can’t JUST impeach Trump when you actually need to take out Trump, his entire staff, Pence, McConnell, Ryan, Fox News, Facebook, Google…

    It goes on and on. Doesn’t stop with Trump.

  102. 102.

    Another Scott

    December 18, 2018 at 8:33 am

    @Chris Johnson: Kinda-sorta.

    As we know, government moves slowly. There have to be hearings and evidence and witnesses and court battles if Watergate is any guide. Coming in on Day 1 and demanding Impeachment isn’t the way it works.

    Republicans were decimated in the 1974 election.

    AFAIK, Nancy isn’t saying that the House can’t have its own investigations and hearings while Mueller continues with his. But talking as if the Impeachment process is going to be a priority on the first day is falling into a trap that the press wants. She and the Democrats need to use their new power wisely and that means achieving real actual legislation and getting real actual evidence in front of voters (and the press) well before November 2020.

    There is time, and if the process plays out as it should, Trump won’t be the only one in touble…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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