Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / NANCY SMASH! / H.R. 1: For The People Act

H.R. 1: For The People Act

by | 164 Comments

This post is in: ,

Any excuse to post a video of Rep John Lewis, American Hero.

Here’s the full video of the presser

I just called my congress-critter – red as he may be – and voiced my support for this. Believe it or not, he opposes the border wall, so my call may not have been wasted. Oh but for a few blocks and I would have Joe Neguse.

Open thread

ETA: I’m watching Nancy Smash on MSNBC and forgot to mention it. Discuss!

Reader Interactions

164Comments

  6. 6.

    Elizabelle

    @Quinerly: Me too. And love how NDP slipped and said it was “early morning” and then corrected to “late night”. Cuz this was taped earlier today.

    Great to see all those Trinity women (and some men) there.

  10. 10.

    Elizabelle

    May we also commend the fabulous John Lewis for his one vote for Speaker yesterday.

    Although he did not seem thrilled by the gesture.

  11. 11.

    Ohio Mom

    I think I’ll call my Rep Monday, just for fun. The guy’s a raving Tea-partier.

    He sent out four emails over the Christmas weekend explaining how important building the wall is (criminals! diseases! etc.!).

    But it’s been a while since I last annoyed his interns.

  12. 12.

    WaterGirl

    I truly LOVE John Lewis. And not just for his rebellious dancing in public! (to the Happy song)

  14. 14.

    Kay

    Damian Paletta
    ‏
    Verified account

    @damianpaletta
    Follow Follow @damianpaletta
    More
    NEW: White House officials are scrambling to deal with major fallout from the shutdown that begins next month, when $140 billion+ in tax refunds could freeze and 38 million Americans face see major food stamp cuts.

    This county went 70% for Trump. They will riot if they don’t get their tax refunds on time. He just has no earthly idea how people wait for those refunds.

  15. 15.

    Ohio Mom

    @Elizabelle: Lewis told people not to vote for him (they would be protest votes against Pelosi).

    I suspect he does not suffer the fools among his fellow Representatives lightly or gladly.

  16. 16.

    Elizabelle

    I like how NDP is so precise in her language. Not a lot of excess verbiage. She is easy to follow, and disciplined and judicious in her approach.

  18. 18.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Love John Lewis so much!

    I probably told this story before, but worth repeating: In 1989 or so, I was a newish, very junior staffer at the Canadian Consulate General in Atlanta, and one of my tasks was to call the local district office of every Member of the House of Representatives from the Southeastern U.S. to determine, if possible, where the Member stood on acid rain — at the time, one of the biggest bilateral issues. Mostly, I got anodyne non-answers from staffers, but when I called John Lewis’ Atlanta office, to my great surprise he answered the phone himself! More, he knew all about the acid rain arguments, didn’t hesitate for a moment, understood all the nuances and environmental/economic implications, and was very clear that he was an ally on that issue. I was wildly impressed. Have met him a few times since then, and he is a mensch. A true hero, and also a decent, kind man.

  21. 21.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kay: It gets better:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/millions-face-delayed-tax-refunds-cuts-to-food-aid-as-white-house-scrambles-to-deal-with-shutdown/2019/01/04/b5b58616-0fa3-11e9-8938-5898adc28fa2_story.html?utm_term=.037bf15ffcae

    Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), a top House conservative who had cheered Trump’s approach in the political confrontation, said he was unaware that there would be any impact on SNAP benefits.

    He said he was convinced this money was automatically appropriated by Congress: “Food stamps go on regardless,” he said.

    This is not the case, however, according to several senior administration officials.

    Moron!

    And then there’s this bit:

    And a much broader part of the federal bureaucracy is expected to begin grinding to a halt in February, absent a resolution.

  22. 22.

    WaterGirl

    @Adam L Silverman: The stupidity is beyond belief. They wonder if there is anything they can do to intervene????? (sorry for shouting)

    Un-fucking believable. Here’s an idea, stop holding the country hostage because you want your stupid wall of hate.

  26. 26.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Adam L Silverman: Yrs ago when after some time a new Godzilla movie was released , NPR had an interview with him. (I think the interviewer was Susan Stamburg sp?)

    At the end he was asked to give his best advice to the listeners. He paused, then said ‘When in Rome…..eat Rome!’

  27. 27.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: I still want to know which former US Presidents were telling Trump they support the wall and wish they had built it themselves. HIs lies just get stupider and stupider. To say “more and more stupid” just doesn’t seem to convey the stupidity.

  28. 28.

    dmsilev

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The officials said they were focused now on understanding the scope of the consequences and determining whether there is anything they can do to intervene.

    Because focusing on the potential consequences _before_ jumping off the cliff is for weak-willed losers. Gravity’s just a theory, right?

  29. 29.

    Brachiator

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Breathtaking story in the @washingtonpost about how one reason that Team Trump was so ready to shut down govt was: they had no idea what the govt does

    Not too surprising. Trump believes that the government is an extension of his ego.

    Right now Trump seems stuck. He’s his own worse stumbling block, and he’s pulled the rest of the Republicans down with him. It’s hard to predict what he does next.

  31. 31.

    Adam L Silverman

    @WaterGirl: Until or unless the President will either sign a bill or McConnell will put one on the floor of the Senate regardless, the answer is no. Read the whole article. If this thing drags on because the President has mouthed himself off into a corner, SNAP is going to run out of money next month and tax returns are going to be delayed. That’s a huge chunk of cash suddenly yanked out of the economy on top of the huge chunk of cash from essential employees who are working, but not being paid and furloughed employees and contractors going unpaid. That all has a trickle up effect in local economies. Instead of a haircut every three weeks, it gets stretched. Instead of buying steaks, you’re buying tin cans of tuna. Instead of going to the occasional movie or out to eat or making the normally affordable purchase of something that isn’t a necessity, all of these purchases don’t happen. That’s money that isn’t circulating in the economy. And it doesn’t just effect essential employees not being paid or furloughed employees and contractors going unpaid or SNAP recipients or tax refund recipients, it effects everyone they do business with. You want to cause the economy to seize up, take cash liquidity out of the economy. It’s like trying to run an engine without oil in it.

  32. 32.

    WaterGirl

    @dmsilev: It’s mind boggling, isn’t it? I wouldn’t let any of these clowns be responsible for a bake sale.

    edit: Will your work at the university be impacted by the shutdown?

  33. 33.

    Mike in NC

    Trump is happily dismantling the federal government, which is long what he and his fellow sociopath billionaires have wanted to do. The Mercers and Kochs resent paying a dime in taxes and would burn it all down to get there.

  35. 35.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle:

    At the time, he was almost as new as I was. I think he might have just been in his second term by then. But I’ve always had a weakness for high-powered people who answer their own phones :-)

  39. 39.

    dmsilev

    @WaterGirl: We’re probably not directly impacted, at least for now. (Federal) tuition money comes from Education plus various private entities, so that’s still funded. Research grant money is NSF, NIH, NASA, DOD, DOE, and a few others. DHS does do some research grants (new sensors for port security, stuff like that), but I don’t know if anyone in my neck of the woods is impacted. Longer term, any economic downturn will of course be a problem, but that’s a more diffuse issue so to speak.

  41. 41.

    jl

    @WaterGirl: I just assumed Trump made it up or was delusional. At any rate, Big Dawg, Dub, and Obama, made it clear that not only did they not tell him that, they don’t talk with the miserable crook anymore, not since the inauguration.

    Trump claims support from past presidents for the wall: Clinton, Bush and Obama beg to differ
    By ANDREW RESTUCCIA 01/04/2019
    ” President Donald Trump claimed without evidence on Friday that past presidents have privately confided to him that they regret not building a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border.
    But at least three of the four living U.S. presidents — Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama — did no such thing.”
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/04/trump-former-presidents-border-wall-1082562

  43. 43.

    sukabi

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ve got an idea, they can agree to everything the dems want, apologize to the country, resign stating in their letters that the job is too hard and is waaaay beyond their limited capabilities and go talk to Robert Mueller.

  44. 44.

    Kay

    @plato:

    No, in this case it’s just their annual tax refund, so not a special Trump refund. They plan for it- put off large purchases, keep creditors at bay with promises of the coming tax refund. Local businesses actually run ads timed to it- used car dealers, etc.

    I just don’t think Trump has any idea this happens. He’s completely unaware of this whole thing. It’s the biggest single money event of their whole year.

  46. 46.

    Quinerly

    Not backing down?
    “It’s probably exactly how my grandmother, if she was alive, would say it,” Tlaib said. “Obviously, I am a member of Congress and things that I say are elevated on a national level, and I understand that very clearly. I am very passionate, and I grew up in an incredibly beautiful, urban community — the city of Detroit — born and raised. We say colorful things in interesting ways, but I tell you, the president of the United States is my focus. The residents back home are my focus.”
    https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/rep-rashida-tlaib-doubles-down-after-explicit-trump-comment-president-has-met-his-match

  49. 49.

    Kay

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It’s extra ridiculous because it doesn’t matter if gets the wall money or not. He’ll lie and say he got it whether he gets it or not. Just make up a number- 5 billion, 2.5 billion, 25 billion. He’ll say WHATEVER.

    What is the difference? I mean, just put it on the growing fantasy list with the “trade deals” that are never ratified and the foreign policy “successes” that never actually materialize. It’s all a fucking fantasy. What’s one more?

  50. 50.

    WaterGirl

    @jl:

    At any rate, Big Dawg, Dub, and Obama, made it clear that not only did they not tell him that, they don’t talk with the miserable crook anymore, not since the inauguration.

    Did they really? I missed that. Not that I believed Trump, but that would mean that three former presidents kind of called Trump a liar, on the same day!

  51. 51.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    OT: So, based on advice from an earlier thread, I’m looking into setting up a Roth IRA with TD Ameritrade or Fidelity to invest in either a mutual fund or ETFs. Mary G suggested the app Stash to start investing and I looked into it but found that the fees would be very high:

    STASH INVEST REVIEW – IS IT EVEN WORTH IT?:

    The biggest drawback of Stash is the cost. $1 per month (or 0.25%) may not seem like a lot, but on a small portfolio, the percentage is very high. $1 per month is $12 per year. On a $100 investment that is 12% in investing fees. That’s incredibly hard to earn back, and those fees keep coming. That can really kill your portfolio’s earning potential.

    Let’s look at an example to break it down. If you’re interested in Technology Stocks, you might consider investing in Stash’s Internet Titan’s ETF. This ETF is actually ticker symbol FDN, which is First Trust Dow Jones Internet Index Fund. This ETF has an expense ratio of 0.54% – which is pretty high for a domestic ETF.

    If you want to invest in a similar ETF at Fidelity, you’d probably go with FTEC, which is Fidelity MSCI Information Technology Index ETF. It invests in the same companies, and it has an expense ratio of just 0.08%. It’s also commission-free to invest in. The Stash ETF alone is 6.75x more expensive to own than the fund at Fidelity. Plus, you have that $1/mo fee on top of it!

    I’m trying to decide which would be better for someone in my current situation (college student, $650-800 monthly income), ETFs vs mutual funds. I’m leaning more towards ETFs because they can be commision-free, have lower minimum investments, as well as lower fees and expenses compared to mutual funds.

    I’m leaning more towards ETFs for the reasons above.

    What are your experiences with mutual funds and ETFs and what would you specifically recommend based on that?

  53. 53.

    khead

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Instead of a haircut every three weeks, it gets stretched. Instead of buying steaks, you’re buying tin cans of tuna. Instead of going to the occasional movie or out to eat or making the normally affordable purchase of something that isn’t a necessity, all of these purchases don’t happen.

    Instead of paying your mortgage you barter for services.

    I have to admit I’m a bit lucky. The USPTO has user fees from previous years to keep the joint open. For now. But if we get into February without a deal? Then I’m gonna get pissed.

  55. 55.

    poleaxedbyboatwork

    @Adam L Silverman:

    When you neither know nor care not how government works, the law of unintended consequences is an endless series of rakes just waiting to be oafishly steppt on.

  57. 57.

    jl

    @WaterGirl: Interesting the each of the three denials contained almost identical statements that they have not and do not speak with Trump.

    I, personally, think Trump was just lying. That is the most likely explanation, don’t you think? Why on earth would Trump randomly not lie about a thing like that?

    @Peale: I think Trump just made it up.

    Edit: Possible that Trump called up Carter or GHW and started some harangue, and they took a moment brfore hanging up. Trump might take that as agreement. I’ll give that a 1% chance.

  58. 58.

    Adam L Silverman

    @khead: I saw that letter from OPM when it came out. Absolutely amazing.

    Also, USPTO? There’s a Federal parent teacher organization?

  60. 60.

    Peale

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I think fees over 1.25% are high for an etf when you could get an index fund for lower than that if you agreed to monthly deposits. Look into Vanguard or TIAA Cref index funds rather than ETFs unless you have more to invest. Those fees in the long run are big sucks.

  61. 61.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I fucking hate McConnell most of all. He knows better, or should. He’s given up his constitutional powers as a co-equal branch and ceded them to the president. I hope the Dems don’t blink. But I also worry the longer this shutdown stretches, potentially the more likely we’ll be blamed for it as the effects you describe begin to occur.

  63. 63.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    You know what would be a really effective check on lunatic rich people who think this is a game? Federal workers who walk off the job when they aren’t paid. The TSA could shut down airports. Whoever does customs inspections? No more of those! They could stop air travel AND shipping. The teachers in West Virginia weren’t allowed to strike either, until they did, and shut down every school in the state. All of a sudden the wingnut legislators in West Virginia found some education funding in a hurry.

  68. 68.

    WaterGirl

    @Kay: There is talk of the “blue flu” at the TSA with an increasing number of employees calling in sick.

  71. 71.

    Adam L Silverman

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: When his rich donors start being inconvenienced, or those of enough of his caucus do so that the other Senate Republicans decide they have nothing left to lose by challenging him, then he’ll do something. Until then he’s going to keep his head down, his mouth shut, and no legislation to reopen the closed parts of the government off the Senate floor as he thinks it damages the Democrats more than it does the Republicans. This is now a test of will and strategy not between Trump and Congress or Trump and the Democrats but between McConnell and Pelosi.

  72. 72.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    To the greens, citizens! Storm the golf courses!

    (Trump won’t care about the TSA. It’s not his kind of border security. //)

  76. 76.

    debbie

    @khead:

    Harkens back to that Vegas Nut who said people didn’t need Obamacare; they could just barter for medical services with chickens.

  77. 77.

    Kelly

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: What are your experiences with mutual funds and ETFs and what would you specifically recommend based on that?

    I’ve been invested in Vanguard Total Stock Market Index and Total Bond Market Index for over 20 years. Vanguard investors own the company. If I decided to shift to ETFs I’d stay with Vanguard. I probably should see if I’d save money if I shifted to ETFs. Hard to get around to changing something that’s worked well for so long.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    @WaterGirl:

    I read that but I think they have to decide and act in concert. They keep pulling this shit because they know these people will keep showing up without pay. Air travelers are higher income than the population as a whole. They’d have the government open in 4 hours if they all stopped working. Can you imagine the screeching from CEO’s if they disrupted shipping? My God, I could hear it from my living room.

    They do it because they get away with it.

  79. 79.

    Ohio Mom

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: The most important investment you are making is your nursing education. Keep working hard at that.

    You are smart to start thinking about putting some money aside. But you don’t have that much yet…stay away from anything with fees.

    If you have $1,500 you can pretend you don’t have, you can do what we did, start an interest-bearing checking account at PNC (I think there are PNCs in your corner of our great state).

    Whatever you end up doing, know that you will change approaches many times. You will close some accounts, open others, buy and sell, as you become a more sophisticated money manager.

    Just stay away from fees, they will eat your little nest egg for breakfast.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    @khead:

    Can they fire them all? I don’t think they can. They need training and security checks, I would imagine. They can’t just bring in anyone off the street and it’s not a great job. It’s an okay job but I don’t think there’s a huge crush of applicants, an endless supply.

    The key has always been “them all”. “All” is essential. I don’t know if any large group of workers is capable of that kind of collective action anymore, but if they are THIS group could force them to open the government.

  82. 82.

    Another Scott

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: You want something simple, broad-based and diversified, with low fees. Fees will eat your gains alive.

    We’ve had Vanguard S&P 500 Index fund for ages. 0.04% expense ratio, but $3000 starting minimum.

    They have an ETF version, with a minimum of 1 share (~ $232), but I don’t know anything in detail about that. You’d have to read up on it.

    In our 401K, we are in an employer-matched S&P500 fund and a government bond fund. Boring investments that we look at once a year or so.

    Boring investments are important, especially when you’re young and don’t have money to spare. Once you know more and have more money to spare, then you can take more risks if you want.

    My $0.02. HTH a little. Good luck.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  83. 83.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Quinerly: Everyone should watch the video of the interview with her. She is fantastic! As a state legislator she took on major bullis and won. Trump is just another bully who must be held accountable.

    She sure doesn’t follow the old advice of stay quiet for the 1st few months, ‘go along to get along,’

    I don’t think the media and the DC political culture is prepared to deal with this new generation of super articulate activists who don’t play by the old rules.

    This video was really an eye opener.

  85. 85.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I have been very, very happy with Vanguard. They have 10 million different funds and you can pretend you understand the tradeoffs, but you’d probably do just as well in the long term picking a “Retirement XXXX Fund” where XXXX is a year. The farther out the year, the bigger “risk” (meaning short-term fluctuation and long-term growth).

    I am not in any sense a financial person. Just a person with all my retirement money in Vanguard. It’s scary watching it shrink right now, but I’m trying to grit my teeth and not panic, and hold on for the wild ride. If we have a crash that goes much beyond this year, I have some serious thinking to do.

  86. 86.

    Mnemosyne

    @dmsilev:

    Because focusing on the potential consequences _before_ jumping off the cliff is for weak-willed losers. Gravity’s just a theory, right??

    They expected the Democrats to yank them back from the edge at the last second, because every other time they’ve done this, we had a Democratic president who was willing and able to come up with a compromise.

    But this time, Trump is the president, and these assholes ran themselves right off the edge of the cliff with no parachute. Now they can either take the parachute that Pelosi is offering them and vote for it with a veto-proof margin, or they can continue to free-fall. Their choice, their decision.

  87. 87.

    jl

    @Kay: They’ll have to figure out if they can make the internal employee discipline departments of the agencies ‘essential’ asap. But, then, if things get bad enough, those people might not show up either.

    Amazing that Wall started as a campaign stunt that even Trump did not think would work to get noise out his rally crowds. Now he’s getting ready to destroy even more of his non die-hard political support, maybe very seriously damage the economy, and because of that GOP chances in 2020, all because Coulter and Limbaugh and few other nitwits yammered that his base needs Wall.

    So, this is a dangerous and idiotic stunt for the sake of a stupid and dishonest stunt. This is Trump’s way of becoming ‘presidential’. He’ll get himself a real crisis soon, and self-made, like all the smaller kerfluffles.

  88. 88.

    Jackie

    Re the shut down: If you’re working without pay, how long can you keep buying the gas for your car to keep working w/o pay? Commuting to work and back isn’t free. I’m not sure if it’s better to be considered essential or non-essential – if you’re working paycheck to paycheck ?

  89. 89.

    poleaxedbyboatwork

    @Adam L Silverman:

    A sore subject, that. Specially now. Sposed to be free to roam about the country (or what’s left a the Lower 48) boutta month ago, but have (foolishly) entrusted myself (boat) to the tender mercies of two wayward welders (also known as fabricators!) who have absconded to Utah for the unforeseeable future. I, too, could be in Fla. showing off my fish-belly white right now!

    Ah, well. My loss, but what the world needs now prolly ain’t another Floriduh Man to add to the confusion.

  90. 90.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Barbara:
    I have a few grand between my checking and savings accounts.

    Based on your link, ETFs seem to be the way to go. However, based on what others are saying index funds would be better. I don’t have a lot to invest ($50/month). I’m also seeing Vanguard mentioned a lot. Also, I need to keep fees low.

  91. 91.

    khead

    @Kay:

    You know, I honestly don’t know nowadays. I was just rolling with the assumption that since Reagan fired the PATCO folks in 1981 that it would happen again. Plus, the MAGA set would love it. I mean, the ones that don’t fly a lot anyway.

  93. 93.

    PenandKey

    My personal experience when it comes to starting out with low level investment is to stick with a low fee index fund portfolio like the ones Betterment runs. They’re mostly Vanguard funds, but they don’t have a minimum starting balance and their “robo advisor” functionality is solid. Set up a long term general investment account with algorithmic risk balancing enabled and you can basically forget about it.

    Index funds aren’t glamorous and you won’t win some sort of stock market lottery, but you’ll rarely go wrong investing in the entire market at once.

  94. 94.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    In the words of Benjamin Franklin, “We must all hang together or else, most assuredly, we will all hang separately.”

    You can fire the one or two ringleaders of a strike, or decimate the staff by firing 10 or 20 percent of them. You can’t fire an entire workforce en masse.

  95. 95.

    jl

    @khead: Trump could try to fire the whole federal government that isn’t funded, I guess. Trump just has to wake up at 4 AM in fury and tweet it out. WH maintains that tweets are official documents. Who knows?

  96. 96.

    JanieM

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I feel like there should be an acronym like IANAL for “I am not an investment adviser.” Very far from it. But I have my IRA from the 25 years when I was self-employed, and most of my other savings, in a couple of Vanguard accounts, with a mix of their index funds, plus long-term treasury bonds that I educated myself enough to feel like I could choose individually, plus a money market fund for my near-term “what if I lose my job” money. I had an IRA with Charles Schwab before Vanguard, but when I switched I was much happier with the amount of useful advice Vanguard made available. Vanguard’s website is easy to use (probably they all are these days), and they do have fees but they’re very low.

    It’s great that you’re thinking about this process now. I wish I had started earlier. A little at a time, when you can, can make a big difference later.

    P.S. I see that Ceci n est pas mon nym beat me to it about Vanguard. I’ll post anyhow……

    PPS Now I see that a bunch of people beat me to it about Vanguard. That’s a comfort, actually.

  97. 97.

    Kelly

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: Investing is a good thing and the sooner you start the more compounding you benefit from. For starting out I’ve aways thought paying off or avoiding debt was the most conservative investment I could make. It’s something of an emotional thing for me. I’m the most debt fearful person I know.

  98. 98.

    Punchy

    @khead: this bunch of shitheads would fire the entire TSA staff, then realize that they had no more TSA agents to operate security at airports.

    Then ask Congress for 5.7 billion to hire new TSA agents. By tomorrow.

  99. 99.

    B.B.A.

    @Kay: Trump won’t care until CBP agents walk off. Because that would mean…open borders.

    I’m a little heartened that TSA walkoffs are starting already (even though I think TSA was a mistake).

  100. 100.

    PenandKey

    @JanieM: I’ll tell anyone that ever asks me that they’re a fool if they try to pick individual stocks and bet against the market. For every winner there’s a loser, and in the end almost everyone’s a loser. It’s far better to develop a stable portfolio split between index and money market funds, especially for long term investing. I’m not an investment advisor, by any means, so being able to buy into “the market” as a whole and see stable long term compounding returns is definitely appealing. But, to each their own.

  102. 102.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Mnemosyne: Dems DO care about people who are hurting. T, GOPers, Turtle are counting on this—that if they just refuse to do anything the dems will cave in order to help real people who are really hurting.

    It’s impossible to try to work with people who flat out don’t care about the well-being of other people.

  105. 105.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Another Scott:
    I could do a few hundred or so. I can spare that. That Vanguard 500 Index Fund sounds like something I’d want, I just don’t have the $3000 minimum to invest. Well, I do, but that would eat up nearly all of my savings.

    Is there something similar that has a lower minimum with low fees? On top of that the Vanguard website says they’re closed to new investors. What the fuck?

  108. 108.

    Duane

    @Jackie: In wingnut world government employees makes big money and should have plenty saved. If not, well stupid libtard too bad. Apply for food stamps. Or something.

  109. 109.

    JanieM

    @PenandKey: Did you read what I wrote? I didn’t say a word about choosing individual stocks, I said individual long-term treasury bonds. They’re laddered, and I hold them to maturity so there’s no price risk. I’m not betting. I’m ensuring that part of my investments are as utterly safe and utterly predictable as it’s possible to be, unless the US abandons “full faith and credit.” But I have always felt that if we got to that point, then my savings would be the least of my worries. I didn’t plan for President Clickbait.

  111. 111.

    stinger

    @Kelly: Come sit here by me. Never owned a credit card, have only had the occasional car loan (always paid off early) and mortgage (paid one off in half the allotted time and about to pay off the current one in just over half the time). I was lucky in finishing college before costs exploded — attended a state school and took out no student loans. I hate and fear debt. I’ve been poor but I’ve gotten out of it comparatively easily as it was just being low on funds. I know people who can only pay the interest every month — they’ll never see daylight again.

  112. 112.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @Adam L Silverman: Trump and the rest of the Republicans are so stupid that they can’t figure out if the US Patent and Trademark Office shuts down, that they don’t get any trademarks granted.

  113. 113.

    PenandKey

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: Check out Betterment.com. It’s what I use and my fees are comparable to Vanguard. Most of the funds it uses in its portfolio options are Vanguard index funds. No minimum, and I actually set my account up well before I ever put my first deposit into it.

  114. 114.

    tobie

    @Kay: TSA employees may walk with their feet in any event. I would think that a lot of people chose to work for TSA because they thought it was a secure job. Now it’s become an insecure job because of GOP dysfunction.

    @Mnemosyne: I bet Republican donors would salivate at the prospect of firing striking TSA members en masse. A lawsuit would ensue and that would be the final nail in the coffin for public service unions. I checked: TSA employees are members of the AFGE (American Federation of Govt Employees).

  116. 116.

    opiejeanne

    @Adam L Silverman: What is the Federal equivalent of a municipal sewage treatment
    facility? Because shutting one of those down ends the impasse between management and labor in cities in a flash and the city managers find that they are motivated to come back to the bargaining table and find money for raises, and not just because of the fines incurred for each day it’s offline. Is there some agency in DC that would have a similar impact

  117. 117.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Barbara:
    The trouble is, this is all very overwhelming for me. l’ve tried doing research on it, but I often don’t understand what I’m reading. I’m afraid of making a costly mistake too. No wonder most people don’t invest. I’m the sort of person who likes to put money into something and just let it grow without having to watch it closely.

  119. 119.

    Another Scott

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: The Admiral S&P500 fund is still open but has the $3000 minimum. The normal S&P500 fund with a lower minimum is closed to new investors (it got to be too huge – it has over $440B in it).

    Vanguard has hundreds, or maybe thousands, of funds. You’ll have to look around.

    The previously mentioned idea of picking a retirement year and seeing what the corresponding fund recommends might be a good place to start. E.g. their Target 2065 fund ($1000 minimum, 0.15% expense ratio). Note the fees are higher for this fund than for the pure S&P500 fund. But you can see what they’re invested in and why and decide whether something similar makes sense for you.

    You’re going to have to do some homework on your own. :-)

    Good luck.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  123. 123.

    Barbara

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: There is a Vanguard ETF that seeks to mimic the US equities market. That is what an index fund is. Your investment is not guaranteed grow, certainly not over a given time period and you should never invest what you cannot afford to lose in the next year. Having said that, if you want to invest, an index fund or ETF is probably the safest way to go. I prefer Vanguard for various reasons but other companies market index investments, though probably not with a lower rate structure.

  126. 126.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Another Scott:
    I guess I got them confused. And of course the one with a lower minimum would be closed. Just my luck. And the thing is, I don’t know what makes sense for me. There’s just too many options and choices with too many variables to consider. There’s a reason most people don’t invest; it’s too complicated.

    Whenever I ask for advice from multiple people this always happens. I have a hard time deciding what’s best for me.

  127. 127.

    H.E.Wolf

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    Two things that are helpful to do before investing:

    1. Figure out a rough estimate of your monthly expenses – if that’s daunting, just do the 3 largest. Multiply by 6. Keep that amount in a checking or savings account and leave it there for (god-forbid-there-should-be) an emergency. AFTER that, start building up a nest egg (quail egg or ostrich egg, your choice) to invest.

    2. If you have any credit-card debt at all, use your spare cash to reduce that debt to zero, and to keep it at zero. THEN start saving up to invest.

    Interest charges on credit-card debt are higher than the interest earned on most non-risky investments, so carrying credit-card balances while investing small amounts monthly will result in a net loss.

  128. 128.

    Steve in the ATL

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: find some product you can buy that mimics the total stock market; that’s better than just the S&P 500. NB: I am not a licensed investment advisor and this is not investment advice, no matter how much it appears to be.

  129. 129.

    Jackie

    @Duane: Or something. Food stamps will no longer be available.??‍♀️ If I have to choose between “wasting money” buying gas to work and back w/o pay – and buying food for my kids/paying partial rent/utilities….

  131. 131.

    Another Scott

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: No, people don’t invest because they don’t have enough money (or don’t think they do). It’s very easy to invest these days.

    My first reply to you at #82 gave you a nickel summary of what I do. I don’t do complicated stuff.

    There’s a mountain of information at Vanguard’s web site, but it’s well organized. You can spend an hour reading there, or at similar sites, and get the basics.

    You need at least $1000 to open most retirement accounts with Vanguard, other types of accounts require $3000 or more. If you don’t want to invest that much now, then you need to look at other options.

    Are you a member of a credit union? If not, you should be as they usually have better rates and benefits than banks. Join a credit union, buy a $500 Certificate of Deposit that matures in 6 months, and read up on laddering while you read more and save more until you’ve got enough to buy into a fund a Vanguard or Fidelity or TD or wherever.

    This is only complicated if you make it complicated. Don’t buy anything you don’t understand, but don’t be afraid to get started.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  132. 132.

    Ruckus

    @plato:
    Got my first check of the year – I don’t work for the government – I got a pay raise! Taxes went down and I’m $1.60 richer per week. So for all the things that aren’t getting paid for and all the bullshit of this malmissadminstration. I’ll be $83 richer this year. At that rate I’ll be able to purchase the Rolls Royce like I saw some ass driving this evening in just over 3,600 years!

  134. 134.

    Another Scott

    @H.E.Wolf: +1

    It’s easy to forget the basics when talking about investing, but it’s good to be reminded of them. Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  135. 135.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    It’s hard to predict what he does next.

    Maybe hard to predict exactly what he’ll do next, but predicting that it will always be the wrong thing and that he won’t understand why, and that it will be the most idiotic thing, and he’ll think it’s brilliant, that’s not hard at all.

  136. 136.

    Origuy

    I saw a headline on RawStory–but I can’t find it now–that said that Trump claims he didn’t mean “American” presidents called him to support the wall. Maybe it was the Russian, Brazilian, and Hungarian presidents.

  137. 137.

    Ruckus

    @Mike in NC:
    I thought that Mercer Sr. owes about 7 billion, with a B, in back taxes.
    That would mean he’s not paying taxes now. And if he’s rung up a 7 billion bill and I’m paying mine, I want his ass in Supermax and the 7 billion.

  138. 138.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @Another Scott:

    I appreciate you trying to help. And everybody else too. I think I’m going to look at the Vanguard Total Stock Market EFT (VTI). It’s diversified and there’s no minimum price to buy in. The expense ratio is 0.04% too, so low fees.

  141. 141.

    smike

    @Origuy:
    That article is still up. From skimming, it looks like someone sarcastically tweeted that. But watch dotus run with it.

  142. 142.

    TomatoQueen

    @Steve in the ATL: I don’t know whether it was unique or I’m just lucky that way, but I found their attitude condescending and their response times incredibly slow, and when I bitched about it to people who were familiar with my situation, there was general agreement of the ‘yup, that’s Fidelity’ strain. Dealing with TIAA-Cref by contrast was lightning fast and efficient, got what I needed, no sales pitch.

  143. 143.

    TomatoQueen

    @opiejeanne: Federal prisons. During a Newtie and the Blowhards shutdown, it was rumored that the threat of furloughing prison guards was sufficient to bring everyone back to the table and get ‘er done. Nice story anyway.

  144. 144.

    danielx

    @PenandKey:

    Most excellent advice, in my most humble opinion. Although, if I had the wherewithal to buy some gold and stash it someplace safe…sounds like a ploy for one of those ads for companies that advertise with Glenn Beck, or whatever other toxic personality, and as recently as three years ago I’d have said the idea was ridiculous. But that was then, this is now, and never before has the world’s largest nuclear arsenal been at the command of a toddler. There are worse things than having some of the world’s most negotiable item on hand.

    On the other hand, I could be totally full of extremely exquisite horseshit, too.

  145. 145.

    danielx

    @opiejeanne:

    Whichever agency, bureau, etc that cleans and maintains the buildings in which Congress does business; that would be a start. Congressmen don;t deal well with things like stopped up toilets and overflowing wastebaskets, or so would be my guess.

  147. 147.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Another Scott:
    Thanks for the kind words! One of my longtime professions included teaching people – if they wanted to be taught – how to get out and stay out of debt.

    Glad to have a chance to say that I always appreciate your upbeat and sensible comment style.

  148. 148.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @H.E.Wolf:
    I’d also like to thank you for your advice. I think I at least know where to start now, thanks to you and other commenters.

  149. 149.

    TomatoQueen

    @danielx: Maintenance/janitorial was one of the first services devolved to contractors in the Clinton era, and it’s that way today. Around here (northern Virginia), the workers are employed by a company that makes them wear bright red uniforms, and are nearly all women in their 30s from Central America. These people are off work, with no pay.

  150. 150.

    Bess

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??:

    I don’t know much about ETFs. But there are mutual funds that are commission free and have very low management fees.

    Both Fidelity and Vanguard offer a number of non-managed funds based on different index. Both have a Standard and Poor 500 based fund. You’re buying into the 500 largest publicly traded companies in the US. Both have funds based on something like the Standard and Poor 2,000. Vanguard calls their’s the the Total Stock Market Fund. I don’t know about Fidelity.

    There might be an advantage to ETFs. Read what you can find from objective sources. But I highly recommend you start investing somewhere. Back in the 1980s I contributed $2k each year for 8 years. After 1989 I had no taxable earned income so my contributions ended. As of today my IRA is worth $160,000 and I’ve taken out several tens of thousands of dollars.

    Time can be your friend. Get some money working as rapidly as possible.

  152. 152.

    Bess

    Just for those who are wondering if they should get their money out today’s terrible stock market.

    Invest for the long run. While the stock market looks terrible at the end of 2018 my Vanguard 500 fund returned 7.8% from 1/1/18 to 12/31/18 and my Vanguard ”2000” fund returned 7.3% for the year

  153. 153.

    bemused

    @Duane:

    My husband was/is quite disgusted hearing some Republican legislator say on tv that he didn’t believe federal employees live from paycheck to paycheck. They don’t know, don’t care if they do know, as long as their own bank accounts are fat. Yet, stupid Republicans living from paycheck to paycheck or those with barely a pot to pee in keep voting for GOP.

  154. 154.

    Pogonip

    I can tell you exactly how this nonsense will end. In a week or two, Trump will use the broad emergency powers of the modern presidency to divert MILCON funds to the stupid wall. Contractors will feast at the trough. Then, when Trump leaves office, whatever overpriced work has been done will just sit there.

    And in between the funds diversion and Trump leaving office, we have the debt ceiling coming up! Whee!

  155. 155.

    Brachiator

    @Ruckus:

    Maybe hard to predict exactly what he’ll do next, but predicting that it will always be the wrong thing and that he won’t understand why, and that it will be the most idiotic thing, and he’ll think it’s brilliant, that’s not hard at all.

    The government shutdown is leading to the Trump meltdown. This tantrum is not funny or good for the country.

    One of these knowledgeable sources told The Daily Beast President Trump kicked off the meeting with a rant lasting roughly 15 minutes that included his $5.6 billion demand for a border wall, and threatened that he was willing to keep the government closed for “years” if that’s what it took to get his wall. He also, unprompted, brought up the Democrats who want him impeached, and even blamed Pelosi for new Democratic congresswoman Rashida Tlaib saying at a party earlier this week that Democrats would impeach the “motherfucker” Trump. (It is unclear why Trump would think Pelosi was responsible for this.)

    Trump proceeded to tell the room he was too popular to impeach.

    Along with saying the word “fuck” at least three times throughout the meeting, the president bizarrely stated that he did not want to call the partial government shutdown a “shutdown,” according to the source. Instead, he referred to it as a “strike.” (Many of the federal employees affected by the weeks-long shutdown have been working without pay. That is essentially the opposite of a strike.)

    And as usual, the Republican leadership is still covering for this lunatic.

    Links

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-referred-to-shutdown-as-strike-in-profanity-laced-meeting-with-democratic-leaders

  156. 156.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    Well, that insanity makes me think he really does think that he’s Reagan in 1981 and the solution will be to fire a bunch of government workers to show them who’s boss. What a shitshow.

  157. 157.

    bemused

    He’s in full blown tantrum mode 24/7 now. Normal or less mentally unstable humans would wear themselves out but he’s a raging narcissist with no conscience.

  160. 160.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:
    No, it’s not good for anything or anyone. Including the ass that’s responsible for all of it.
    @Mnemosyne:
    Reagan? Naw, he’s far better than that, just ask him. Well, this is what happens when you hire a doddering old narcissistic asshole to run a country. It should be amazing that it’s taken him almost 2 yrs to fuck up this badly but then how long did it take them to find the light switches? Rebuild after this? Yes it’s certainly possible, but with the fucking republicans still unable to get their heads out of their asses and see how fucking stupid this is and how fucking bad it is for the country, I’m beginning to think that if this goes on much longer a recession will be the least of our worries. 2/3 of the government is still being run by extremely selfish asshole republicans, who are stuffing the judicial with extreme partisan judges so even if we manage to recover reasonably, it will take probably a couple of decades to fix that. And in this country we’ve never had that long to do anything constructive, the conservatives always get back in power and make it worse than it was. Of course on a personal note, I was hoping that retiring might be nice. Silly me.

  161. 161.

    opiejeanne

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: First, join a Credit Union. The members own the CU, and so most don’t charge fees for accounts. Then put your money into a savings account; it will not yield much interest but they won’t eat what you have in fees. As you add to it you can move some to CDs that pay better interest, and there are CDs that are open-ended so you can take the money out without a penalty if you want; most Credit Unions offer these. The more money you have to invest the higher the interest, and if you can invest in a CD for a set term you will also get a higher interest rate.

    When that’s built up to a decent amount of money find a broker. You’ll need to ask around, ask friends and family, ask people you work with or your teachers. Ask the person who does your taxes for some recommendations, then go and interview them. Then look at the answers you’ve gotten and decide how you want to proceed.
    Whatever you do, do not just throw up your hands and start buying stocks or anything else.

  162. 162.

    Ken

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), … was convinced this money was automatically appropriated by Congress: “Food stamps go on regardless,” he said.

    Wasn’t it just last year the Republicans in Congress tried to strip the food stamp appropriation from the Agriculture bill, while leaving in the crop subsidies? And I’m sure there’s a record of how Rep. Meadows voted on that legislation. Maybe Trump’s Alzheimers is contagious?

  163. 163.

    laura

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??: I dont know if your job includes benefits. If it does, and includes EAP (employee assistance program), that may include free sessions with a certified financial planner. That might be well worth your time to look into, not just for the investment piece, but also savings, rent v buying a home etc.

  164. 164.

    WaterGirl

    @Ken: Maybe when they tried to strip out the food stamp appropriation last year is when they found out that their republican voters are people on food stamps?

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