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The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

Bark louder, little dog.

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Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Come on, man.

DeSantis transforms Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

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You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

House Speaker candidate unfamiliar with how to win non-gerrymandered election.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / 2020 Hustings Open Thread: Has Anyone Seen Scott Walker Recently?*

2020 Hustings Open Thread: Has Anyone Seen Scott Walker Recently?*

by Anne Laurie|  January 6, 20192:27 pm| 85 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, Open Threads, #notintendedtobeafactualstatement

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A Trump-supporting protester was arrested outside an Elizabeth Warren event after allegedly hitting an attendee with a selfie stick. https://t.co/7Sm7IkuONG

— MSNBC (@MSNBC) January 6, 2019

… As Warren mingled with the overflow crowd outside a roundtable event, witnesses told NBC News the Trump supporter unfurled a Trump banner and began yelling, which led to an altercation with other attendees. When one man tried to pull down the banner, witnesses said the Trump supporter struck the man on the head with a selfie stick.

The protester, whom police identified as a 58-year-old Minnesota native, was quickly handcuffed. He yelled “Trump 2020!” before being placed in the back of a police car and taken to the county jail.

“Police observed a person, who was in the overflow crowd outside of the facility, allegedly become very vocal while Senator Warren was outside greeting the attendees,” the Storm Lake Police Department said in a statement, adding that he “became aggressive and attempted to assault others in the crowd.”

He was was charged with disorderly conduct, a simple misdemeanor, and held on a $300 bond, the statement added…

*Yes, I realize Gov. Walker is not actually from Minnesota. It’s a Midwestern joke, on the familiar theme that a Wisconsinite facing public embarrassment might pretend to be from a neighboring state, since all those flyover places look alike to the MSM.

Warren: “There are 7 million people in the United States with hearing loss.”

Man in crowd: “What?!”

— Kevin Robillard (@Robillard) January 5, 2019

But seriously… Per Dave Weigel, at the Washington Post:

SIOUX CITY, Iowa — The first question on the first full day of Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s Iowa presidential campaign swing was the one her political opponents craved. It came not from a reporter, or a heckler, but from an attendee among those packed into Sioux City’s Orpheum Theatre on Saturday who, like everyone else, had gotten a ticket that allowed her to ask the senator anything.

“Why did you undergo the DNA testing and give Donald more fodder to be a bully?” she asked.

There was a sound of muttering from the audience of 575 voters, and Warren let out a sigh. “Yeah, well,” she said. “I’m glad you asked that question. I genuinely am. I’m glad for us to have a chance to talk about it.”…

“I am not a person of color; I am not a citizen of a tribe,” she said. “Tribal citizenship is very different from ancestry. Tribes, and only tribes, determine tribal citizenship, and I respect that difference. I grew up in Oklahoma, and like a lot of folks in Oklahoma, we heard stories about our ancestry. When I first ran for public office, Republicans homed in on this part of my history, and thought they could make a lot of hay out of it. A lot of racial slurs, and a lot of ugly stuff. And so my decision was: I’m just gonna put it all out there. Took a while, but just put it all out there.”

Warren, who has not otherwise mentioned the president by name on this trip, added that she could “not stop Donald Trump from what he’s gonna do,” including “hurling racial insults.”

“Yes, you can!” shouted Glenda Verhoeven, a 63-year old farmer in the audience. Afterward, Verhoeven explained that she thought Trump had revealed just how nervous Warren made him: “She already knows the enemy, and he knows her.”

The ancestry question was absent from Warren’s Friday-night town hall at a packed venue in Council Bluffs, and from a policy-heavy roundtable in Storm Lake on Saturday…

It’s not surprising that people coming out to listen to a candidate would be sympathetic to that candidate’s explanations. But since the Media Village Idiots are never gonna let go of the DNA Test Clouds Warren’s Campaign trope, good on her for getting a sensible story out there sooner rather than later.

And we're out. Warren's walk-off music: Aretha Franklin, "R-E-S-P-E-C-T."

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) January 6, 2019

Why Steve King is getting his dress sheets in a bunch:

Not only is Sen. Warren keeping up talk of black white/wealth inequality during Iowa tour of very white audiences, but it's an applause line? At multiple stops, when she mentions unique challenges minorities face and black homeownership stats, crowd ooohs and ahhs and gasps

— Steadman (@AsteadWesley) January 6, 2019

It’s a bold statement, Cotton. Let’s see if it works out.
(Check ratio)
Nope. https://t.co/Q9qalLlZFn

— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) January 5, 2019

"I don’t have a problem saying that Warren is unlikeable," writes @mattklewis. "She seems preachy and angry to me" https://t.co/andAqFZtxP

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) January 5, 2019

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Previous Post: « Why You So Mad, Bros?
Next Post: There’s Still A Lot We Don’t Know About Paul Whelan »

Reader Interactions

85Comments

  1. 1.

    trollhattan

    January 6, 2019 at 2:32 pm

    Steve King lives in Storm Lake. Nice job taking this to his house, senator.

    BTW, Storm Lake has several slaughter houses that employ Steve’s much-hated immigrant labor. Hard to square that circle.

    p.s. For this “mattklewis” fellow: fuckem. Warren is utterly “likeable.” mattklewis must have not enjoyed his school experience.

  2. 2.

    rikyrah

    January 6, 2019 at 2:33 pm

    Who is Matt Lewis, and why should I care about his opinion of Senator Warren???

  3. 3.

    debbie

    January 6, 2019 at 2:33 pm

    Speaking of walk-on and -off music, how is it that Trump is still using, “You Can’t Always Get What You Want”?

  4. 4.

    rikyrah

    January 6, 2019 at 2:34 pm

    This is what you call Getting Played ????

    Uh huh
    Uh huh ? ?

    Jon Cooper (@joncoopertweets) Tweeted:
    Putin says Russia will supply soy beans and poultry meat to China, replacing US farmers who lost their export business due to the #TrumpTariffs.

    https://t.co/0iCkW9Sus1 https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1081951448123011072?s=17

  5. 5.

    germy

    January 6, 2019 at 2:36 pm

    judging by history, one quick way to be likeable as a woman is to die

    — Aparna Nancherla (@aparnapkin) January 6, 2019

  6. 6.

    JGabriel

    January 6, 2019 at 2:36 pm

    NBCNews via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    As Warren mingled with the overflow crowd outside a roundtable event, witnesses told NBC News the Trump supporter unfurled a Trump banner and began yelling, which led to an altercation with other attendees. When one man tried to pull down the banner, witnesses said the Trump supporter struck the man on the head with a selfie stick.

    Hit me with your … selfie stick?

  7. 7.

    trollhattan

    January 6, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    @rikyrah:
    I have a hard time believing the Soviets have all that much excess production capacity but that Putin is willing to say that publicly shows his relationship with Donny has shifted.

  8. 8.

    Amir Khalid

    January 6, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    @debbie:
    When the Stones get on his case about it, he blames the venue. He pulls this same shit with everyone who objects to him using their music.

  9. 9.

    trollhattan

    January 6, 2019 at 2:39 pm

    @Amir Khalid:
    Either way, ASCAP should be collecting music royalties with each public use.

  10. 10.

    Barbara

    January 6, 2019 at 2:40 pm

    @trollhattan: Not shifted, just a much more forthright declaration of ownership.

  11. 11.

    JGabriel

    January 6, 2019 at 2:43 pm

    @trollhattan:

    I have a hard time believing the Soviets have all that much excess production capacity but that Putin is willing to say that publicly shows his relationship with Donny has shifted.

    Is it really though? Hasn’t Putin’s relationship with Donny always been “I dominate Trump” – with greater or lesser emphasis depending on Vlad’s mood.

  12. 12.

    Amir Khalid

    January 6, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    @rikyrah:
    He is either a righry pundit who went from from The Daily Caller to The Daily Beast, or the guy who played Neville Longbottom in the Harry Potter movies.

  13. 13.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 6, 2019 at 2:46 pm

    @rikyrah: T wants to break America, bankrupt it and make out like a bandit from the proceeds of the fire sale of its assets.

  14. 14.

    Cliosfanboy

    January 6, 2019 at 2:50 pm

    @JGabriel: Yep. i’m surprised Putin didn’t pee on Trump’s leg to mark his territory at the G20.

  15. 15.

    Jeffro

    January 6, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    Anyone see Snoop Dogg’s video message to furloughed federal employees yet? It’s. Awesome. LOTTA f-bombs so enjoy before you have to go back to work tomorrow ?

  16. 16.

    Roger Moore

    January 6, 2019 at 2:59 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    When the Stones get on his case about it, he blames the venue.

    IIRC, he doesn’t exactly blame the venue. He claims the venue has a license from the appropriate licensing consortium, so the musicians can’t legally claim copyright infringement for playing it. It’s typical of his approach to this kind of thing. What matters to him is figuring out a way to take advantage of the law, not a way of doing what’s right.

  17. 17.

    A Ghost To Most

    January 6, 2019 at 3:00 pm

    @trollhattan: ASCAP will get stiffed like everyone else.

    I’d like to commandeer the PA at one of his Volksturm rallies, and break their eardrums with “Lunatic Fringe”.

  18. 18.

    A Ghost To Most

    January 6, 2019 at 3:05 pm

    @Jeffro: I hope he said “Impeach the motherfucker!”. That can’t be said enough.

  19. 19.

    Amir Khalid

    January 6, 2019 at 3:05 pm

    Off-topic: in an unprecedented move, the Yang di Pertuan Agong (the occupant of Malaysia’s national throne, which is rotated among the nation’s nine Malay rulers) has abdicated. I don’t expect this to have much if any effect on national politics, since he is only Sultan of Kelantan and not a player in national politics. But it is noteworthy that he very recently married a Russian bride, a former Miss Moscow. (She is not the Permaisuri Agong, the Queen; that title always goes to the first and ranking wife.)

  20. 20.

    sukabi

    January 6, 2019 at 3:06 pm

    @Jeffro: Snoop via Atrios’ place

  21. 21.

    Amir Khalid

    January 6, 2019 at 3:14 pm

    @sukabi:
    Hard to disagree with Snoop.

  22. 22.

    gwangung

    January 6, 2019 at 3:15 pm

    @germy: Cause, as we all know, getting shot and surviving just won’t do. (Rep. GIffords).

    As far as @mattklewis is concerned, as a POC….”Bite me, Matt.”

  23. 23.

    Jeffro

    January 6, 2019 at 3:17 pm

    @sukabi: thanks for the link!

    F-bombs aside, it’s so incredibly to the point: “y’all are blue collar people working hard and that motherfucker don’t give a shit about you…fuck him”

    More like this please

  24. 24.

    Brachiator

    January 6, 2019 at 3:20 pm

    @sukabi:

    Snoop via Atrios’ place

    Dear me. Snoop used harsh language when describing Trump. Conservative pundits will now chastise him and instruct us about the need for civility in discourse.

    Fuck ’em

  25. 25.

    sukabi

    January 6, 2019 at 3:21 pm

    @Jeffro: an avalanche is coming…sjw snowflakes are PISSED!

    lol

  26. 26.

    Ruckus

    January 6, 2019 at 3:24 pm

    @Amir Khalid:
    @Jeffro:
    Snoop knows the proper use of the word fuck.

  27. 27.

    Mike in NC

    January 6, 2019 at 3:25 pm

    Get used to this stuff. Any Democratic candidate for 2020 will be targeted by Fat Bastard’s crew of ratfuckers and nihilists, as directed by Stephen Miller and Jared Kushner. People will be verbally and physically assaulted on a regular basis, and Trump will just laugh and deny everything.

  28. 28.

    dm

    January 6, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    I’ve been thinking that the Democrats ought to use “Make America great again” as their 2020 campaign theme. That is, rebuild America from the mess crafted by the vandal-in-chief.

  29. 29.

    debbie

    January 6, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    @Brachiator:

    When they complain to you, link them to the youtube that was shared yesterday with clips of Trump’s cusses at his rallies.

  30. 30.

    Jay

    January 6, 2019 at 3:33 pm

    “My friend Maureen Barnato said, “Spocko, my brain will explode if we go through another campaign season like 2016!”

    As someone who has had his brain removed I am strongly against brains exploding, especially ones on our side. So, how can you stop friends fighting and brains exploding?

    Here is what I’m going to do: Every time I see an online debate about Warren, Beto, Biden, Harris, Sanders or any possible Democratic presidential nominee I will stop and ask myself.
    “What can I do stop the criminality of Republicans? What can I do to expose the anti-democratic institutions and organization they run? How can I de-fund and defeat the people and groups that made Trump, McConnell and Ryan possible?”
    Then I will act, based on how I answer those questions.

    “But Spocko,” Mr. Lefty McLefterson says, “Some of the people on my side are WRONG! Isn’t it my duty to educate them? If they aren’t castigated NOW for who they supported in the past, how can they learn from their mistakes? If I don’t explain why their candidate isn’t the best, we will get Trump for another 4 years!”

    Good question Mr. McLefterson! Let’s just postpone the discussion of possible candidates on the left and go right into attacking the GOP, their people and institutions the that made Trump, McConnell
    Ryan possible.”

    https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2019/01/how-to-stop-friends-fighting-over-2020.html?m=1

  31. 31.

    gene108

    January 6, 2019 at 3:37 pm

    @rikyrah:

    I thought Brazil was already supplying the soybeans, at least.

  32. 32.

    Ruckus

    January 6, 2019 at 3:39 pm

    @dm:
    No. Just No.
    Don’t give the mouth breathers any fodder for their idiocy. If you attempt to use their bullshit, they will just bullshit even more. Do not even give them the ability to do that. If you have to have a slogan, find a better one than that lie. And it would be far better to not attempt to bumper sticker what we need to do to clean up the mess that republicans have been making for decades and which they took to far lower depths by having that jackass as president.
    IOW
    NEVER STOOP TO THEIR LEVEL.

  33. 33.

    Lurker123

    January 6, 2019 at 3:43 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:
    As happened in Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union (fite sale of state assets to well-connected oligarchs).

  34. 34.

    sukabi

    January 6, 2019 at 3:52 pm

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    @AOC

    If the GOP wants a wall so badly, they can try to propose and pass a bill like anybody else.

    Instead, they are seizing gov operations + innocent people’s pay until they get what they want.

    This is called hostage-taking. And no one can compromise or negotiate with that.

  35. 35.

    Brachiator

    January 6, 2019 at 3:54 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Off-topic: in an unprecedented move, the Yang di Pertuan Agong (the occupant of Malaysia’s national throne, which is rotated among the nation’s nine Malay rulers) has abdicated.

    Interesting story. It does make you wonder what might be behind it all. Does someone replace this ruler?

    The rotational monarchy, very interesting.

    I can imagine Prince Charles in the UK showing this to the queen, and saying, “See, mummy? You could abdicate, too. And then I could finally get to be king!”

  36. 36.

    JPL

    January 6, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    @Jeffro: I guess trump is doing ads also. I wish that the DNC would.

  37. 37.

    Mart

    January 6, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    “She seems preachy and angry to me”

    Dudebro reporters gonna dudebro hate on older woman. At least Clinton was never talked about that way…

    I would like some commentary from press boys saying Trump seems moronic and hateful to me.

  38. 38.

    jc

    January 6, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    @Mike in NC: What Mike said:

    “Any Democratic candidate for 2020 will be targeted by Fat Bastard’s crew of ratfuckers and nihilists…”

    It’s what they *have* to do, they’re desperate to avoid having rational, fact-based discussions of issues.

  39. 39.

    Brachiator

    January 6, 2019 at 4:08 pm

    @sukabi:

    If the GOP wants a wall so badly, they can try to propose and pass a bill like anybody else.

    Instead, they are seizing gov operations + innocent people’s pay until they get what they want.

    This is called hostage-taking. And no one can compromise or negotiate with that.

    Tell it!!

  40. 40.

    Sister Golden Bear

    January 6, 2019 at 4:10 pm

    @Roger Moore: Not sure this would work for the Stones specifically, since I assume they’re British citizens, but bands should announce any royalties they make from the rally usage will be donated to Trump’s 2020 opponent.

    Obviously the amount of money is probably small, but it might be a good way to get into his head, i.e. “who’s the sucker now.”

  41. 41.

    The Lodger

    January 6, 2019 at 4:14 pm

    @rikyrah: Russia doesn’t export food, period, other than specialty items such as Stoli or caviar. It never has. If Putin is talking about shipping poultry or soybeans out of his country, he is talking ab out nominal amounts and playing with people’s heads.

  42. 42.

    WaterGirl

    January 6, 2019 at 4:17 pm

    @sukabi: I nominate motherfucker as the word of the year for 2019.

  43. 43.

    PenandKey

    January 6, 2019 at 4:18 pm

    @trollhattan: I have a hard time believing the Soviets have all that much excess production capacity but that Putin is willing to say that publicly shows his relationship with Donny has shifted.

    At this point, my tinfoil is on tight enough that it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Putin had advanced warning the tarriffs were going to be a thing and made plans accordingly. But then, it’s only a warning if he didn’t give the order in the first place.

  44. 44.

    sukabi

    January 6, 2019 at 4:20 pm

    @WaterGirl: ha! It’s been one of my favorite words for several decades

  45. 45.

    Jay

    January 6, 2019 at 4:22 pm

    ““We are going to make this country one that lives up to its ideals of inclusion, of religious liberty,” Omar said to a crowd of supporters Thursday at a celebration after her swearing in. “One that recognizes this is a land that is stolen from indigenous people, built on the backs of black slaves, and one, one that welcomed immigrants so many years ago.

    “We believe in the politics of joy, and this isn’t the time for tip-toe politics. We are going to reject divisiveness. And we are going to reject hate. And we are going to reject people who want to destroy one of the greatest governments, one of the greatest democracies to exist on this earth.”

    https://www.juancole.com/2019/01/ilhan-religious-freedom.html

  46. 46.

    Kent

    January 6, 2019 at 4:24 pm

    In my career I have worked with various tribal organzations over the years (consulting on Federal fisheries management issues) and I really fail to see how this whole DNA thing has become such a lightning rod for the tribes.

    I know from both DNA tests and family genealogy that my ancestry is mainly from Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands, and France. Yet I don’t claim citizenship from any of those countries. And, for that matter, many of my ancestors immigrated to the US before Germany was even a country so they came from various German-speaking states before German unification. Do I find that interesting? Yes. Do I plan on leveraging my 40% or so German ancestry from 200 years ago into German citizenship? Of course not. I fail to see how using DNA to discover that one has African or Asian or Native American roots is any different. We all have ancestry that pre-dates the founding of the United States and runs unbroken back to the dawn of time. Why the fuss?

  47. 47.

    WaterGirl

    January 6, 2019 at 4:28 pm

    @Kent:

    Why the fuss?

    Because they didn’t like her in the first place and see her as a threat.

  48. 48.

    Kent

    January 6, 2019 at 4:29 pm

    @rikyrah: Russia is not even in the top 10 in terms of soybean production. Uruguay, Paraguay, and Bolivia all produce more soybeans than Russia. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/world-leaders-in-soya-soybean-production-by-country.html So yes, some pretty obvious trolling by Putin. The Russian GDP is smaller than that of Texas. Most of it comes from oil production and gets spent on military infrastructure. And it is declining compared to other rising powers like China, Korea, and India. Other than the fact that they have nukes, there is little reason to pay much attention to Russia, especially when it comes to world trade.

    Russia produces about 3 million tons of soybeans compared to 108 million tons produced in the US and 88 million tons produced by Brazil.

  49. 49.

    Jay

    January 6, 2019 at 4:30 pm

    @The Lodger:

    Russia’s long exported grains, pork, chicken, fish. In 2017 it became the worlds largest grain exporter.

    “In the last marketing year, which ran from July 2016 through June 2017, Russia exported 27.8 million metric tons of wheat, more than the entire European Union, to claim first place in the world for the first time since the EU has been counted as a unit. In the current marketing year, the U.S. Department of Agriculture predicts, Russia will export 31.5 million metric tons, increasing its global lead; it’s already facing infrastructure constraints because of the fast growth. It’s also a leading exporter of corn, barley and oats. Along with Ukraine and Kazakhstan, it’s part of the force increasingly shaping global grain markets — RUK, as it is known to market experts.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-09-04/russia-is-an-emerging-superpower-in-global-food-supply

  50. 50.

    sukabi

    January 6, 2019 at 4:32 pm

    @Kent: not sure but I think it comes down to something like this….have you used your ancestry (German, Swede or other ) to leverage those governments out of money, land or anything else? I’m guessing not. The same can’t be said of some people claiming NA ancestry.

  51. 51.

    Redshift

    January 6, 2019 at 4:35 pm

    @Brachiator: And that is the essence of it. We have a shutdown because there was a deal that Trump had agreed to sign, and he changed his mind after one house of Congress has voted on it.

    That’s why anyone saying there should be a “compromise” can suck it. They was s compromise, and he blew it up, demanded more, and made threats. It’s the very definition of hostage-taking, and it can’t be rewarded or he’ll just keep doing it.

  52. 52.

    Kent

    January 6, 2019 at 4:36 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Because they didn’t like her in the first place and see her as a threat.

    I was talking about all the fuss from the tribes, not from the MAGA “Volk”

    Or are you saying that there are tribes that see Warren as some sort of threat compared to other candidates?

  53. 53.

    sukabi

    January 6, 2019 at 4:36 pm

    @Jay: hot damn! I’m liking this new bunch of women!

  54. 54.

    WaterGirl

    January 6, 2019 at 4:39 pm

    @Kent: Oh, I misunderstood. I have no idea why the tribes would see her as a threat. I don’t even know for sure whether the tribes really are upset about this or if that has been misrepresented.

    There’s so much going on that it’s impossible to look into everything to see what’s real and what’s not.

    All of which was Trump/Putin’s point in the constant disinformation campaign. Trump is a traitor and needs to be gone.

  55. 55.

    Jay

    January 6, 2019 at 4:39 pm

    @Kent:

    Everything you ever wanted to know about the Indigenous/DNA issue.

    http://www.sfu.ca/ipinch/sites/default/files/resources/reports/dna_symposiumproceedings_2016.pdf

  56. 56.

    Fair Economist

    January 6, 2019 at 4:43 pm

    @Kent:

    I really fail to see how this whole DNA thing has become such a lightning rod for the tribes.

    It hasn’t. The tribes don’t care or are supportive. The same media that spent years confusing people into believing there was something significantly wrong with Hillary’s email practices took 2 Republican Native Americans inventing complaints about Warren and wrote articles to make it sound like there was significant tribal opposition even though *no* elected tribal or Native American government official has complained about her actions and those who have spoken out have been supportive. Some Native Americans have brought up the important distinctions between tribal membership and tribal ancestry, in which they agree with Warren, but the articles have been written so as to make the concerns about what *other* people might do into concerns about Warren, which they aren’t.

    And they literally brought out the old “lingering cloud” bullshit.

  57. 57.

    Kent

    January 6, 2019 at 4:47 pm

    @sukabi:

    @Kent: not sure but I think it comes down to something like this….have you used your ancestry (German, Swede or other ) to leverage those governments out of money, land or anything else? I’m guessing not. The same can’t be said of some people claiming NA ancestry.

    Tribes, like independent countries, control their own citizenship. Show me one example of a person who has successfully claimed membership in a particular tribe based solely on a 23andME DNA test or used DNA testing to leverage tribal benefits?

    Note. I’m not talking about using DNA testing to prove you are an ancestor of a particular individual such as paternity tests. That can and is used all the time for things like tribal membership. A certain person may use DNA paternity testing to prove they are indeed the child of a known tribal member, and therefore, entitled to membership themselves. I’m talking about random outsiders using DNA testing to claim membership in a particular tribe based only on DNA testing and no other evidence of ancestry. Especially because that sort of DNA testing is far to coarse to narrow ancestry down to a particular tribe, or even a particular region of North America.

  58. 58.

    Jay

    January 6, 2019 at 4:52 pm

    @Kent:

    As has been pointed out many times here:
    – Warren talked to the Cherokee Tribes before the DNA test,
    – The Cherokee Nation issued a bland anodyne statement that DNA wasn’t anything related to the Tribal Membership process,
    – the “MSM” immediately went to the ReThugs and ReThugs that claim some kind of ancestory for comment,
    – social media fluffers piled on.

    So, like AOC “protesting” Pelosi, Bengazhi!!!!!!!!, EMAILZ!!!! The MSM continues it’s long service as a ReThug bullhorn.

  59. 59.

    Jay

    January 6, 2019 at 4:54 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    ???????

  60. 60.

    jc

    January 6, 2019 at 4:55 pm

    @dm: I’ve been thinking that in 2020 the Dems ought to use the slogan “Make America Fact-Based Again.”

  61. 61.

    Jay Noble

    January 6, 2019 at 4:56 pm

    Just a note on the Russian exports: Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union both had histories of exporting grain – while the people who had grown it literally starved to death.

  62. 62.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    January 6, 2019 at 5:01 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I saw that earlier and hoped you give your local perspective. I learned just enough about Malaysian monarchy in the course of a recent work matter to see the news and go “hmmm.”

  63. 63.

    Kent

    January 6, 2019 at 5:02 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    It hasn’t. The tribes don’t care or are supportive. The same media that spent years confusing people into believing there was something significantly wrong with Hillary’s email practices took 2 Republican Native Americans inventing complaints about Warren and wrote articles to make it sound like there was significant tribal opposition even though *no* elected tribal or Native American government official has complained about her actions and those who have spoken out have been supportive. Some Native Americans have brought up the important distinctions between tribal membership and tribal ancestry, in which they agree with Warren, but the articles have been written so as to make the concerns about what *other* people might do into concerns about Warren, which they aren’t.

    And they literally brought out the old “lingering cloud” bullshit.

    That makes sense. But it isn’t how things were reported. I guess I haven’t followed this as close as I should have: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/16/why-cherokee-nations-rebuke-elizabeth-warren-matters/?noredirect=on

  64. 64.

    Brachiator

    January 6, 2019 at 5:02 pm

    @Kent:

    We all have ancestry that pre-dates the founding of the United States and runs unbroken back to the dawn of time. Why the fuss?

    It’s obviously an attempt to create an ongoing “e-mail” type of controversy. For some idiots, it has already become detached from Trump’s insulting remarks about her and is now supposedly Warren’s problem (hence the bullshit about lingering clouds of suspicion about … something).

    Any attempt to attach this to tribal interests is unfair. It is good to see tribal officials refusing to take the bait.

  65. 65.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    January 6, 2019 at 5:06 pm

    @Kent: It’s mainly been a cherry picked lightning rod as I understand it. A few tribal officials are irritated, and spoke, but the ones who don’t care didn’t get quoted, if they were even interviewed (same as it ever was).

  66. 66.

    Jay

    January 6, 2019 at 5:08 pm

    @Jay Noble:

    All Empires share that history.

  67. 67.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    January 6, 2019 at 5:13 pm

    @Kent: There is justifiable irritation at people who want to point to minute degrees of indigenous ancestry and try to leverage that to claim government services/subsidies that actual native families earned dying as a result of US govt policies as well as from direct genocide. So the “ancestry” notion is prickly. But Warren did none of that, and she’s a staunch supporter of tribes, so most of the tribal folks I’ve read about like her – “we need all the friends we can get.”

  68. 68.

    Ladyraxterinok

    January 6, 2019 at 5:28 pm

    @Kent: Earlier thread had discussion of recent HuffPo article that claims v few tribal leaders were interviewed by M$M stories that Native Americans were angered by what Warren did. Article quotes Native Americans who discussed Warren’s long-term support for their needs and goals.

  69. 69.

    Brachiator

    January 6, 2019 at 5:30 pm

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:

    There is justifiable irritation at people who want to point to minute degrees of indigenous ancestry and try to leverage that to claim government services/subsidies

    Who does this? Who? How significant an issue is it?

    But even here, it is ridiculous to transfer any of this supposed “irritation” to Warren. There is simply no connection.

    Also, the idea of “minute degrees of indigenous ancestry” being either important or unimportant is stupid. Especially in America, where dumbass ideas about ancestry has always been tied to racism.

  70. 70.

    Mike in DC

    January 6, 2019 at 5:42 pm

    @Ladyraxterinok: The simplest thing is for Warren to support a bill that benefits NA tribes, and meet with various leaders.

  71. 71.

    Kay

    January 6, 2019 at 5:45 pm

    I’m going to lose my mind if they turn “what about the DNA” into “but her emails”

    Why can’t anything ever get resolved? We litigate and relitigate these “controversies” over and over and over.

    What is left to say about the DNA? She’s explained it 500 times, they’ve all had a chance to weigh in with every possible objection and “take”… and still t’s like groundhog day, every day we start fresh with the DNA controversy.

    Can political media just issue a ruling on the DNA already? Convict and sentence her on “misuse of DNA test”, call it “time served” and release her.

  72. 72.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 6, 2019 at 6:07 pm

    @Kay: Rashida T and AOC have got it right. Ignore those bastards. They are never fucking going to give Ds a fair shake. So don’t waste time explaining, tell them to fuck off.

  73. 73.

    Brachiator

    January 6, 2019 at 6:12 pm

    @Mike in DC:

    The simplest thing is for Warren to support a bill that benefits NA tribes, and meet with various leaders.

    Nothing is simple in political theater.

    Most tribal leaders don’t seem to care about this, so no “meetings” would seem to be necessary.

    If there is some needed legislation to be drafted, Warren would likely support it.

    Again, we have a non-issue kept alive by conservative gadflies.

    Folks should just let it rest.

  74. 74.

    Ruckus

    January 6, 2019 at 6:15 pm

    @Kay:
    Well we know it’s a bullshit story so why shouldn’t they produce more bullshit over it? It’s what they do.
    I think we have to remind ourselves who pays the journalists and that who pays them gets the output they want, the readers be damned. No one is trying to appease the readers, only their bosses. And they have deadlines to meet, and inches of copy to produce. They are there to create the truth that their bosses want to produce. And they are welcome to leave if they don’t like the job. Of course that might make them hungry and living under a bridge but that’s their choice.
    And having produced that bullshit for sometime the truth is often no longer a believable concept for many of the readers. So even if the occasional story comes out, the bullshit believers won’t trust it, until the evidence is overwhelming and massive. The nature of almost believable propaganda. It’s almost believed until it outweighs everything else and the tide flips. And it takes the same effort to get the truth to be believed after that.

  75. 75.

    Kent

    January 6, 2019 at 6:18 pm

    @Kay:

    I’m going to lose my mind if they turn “what about the DNA” into “but her emails”

    Why can’t anything ever get resolved? We litigate and relitigate these “controversies” over and over and over.

    What is left to say about the DNA? She’s explained it 500 times, they’ve all had a chance to weigh in with every possible objection and “take”… and still t’s like groundhog day, every day we start fresh with the DNA controversy.

    Can political media just issue a ruling on the DNA already? Convict and sentence her on “misuse of DNA test”, call it “time served” and release her.

    God I hope so. Every single Dem candidate is going to have some sort of “but her emails” scandal arise because the right wing media and GOP will simply invent one out of thin air for any candidate who rises to the top.

    The ONLY way to combat this is to have a candidate who is individually charismatic enough and savvy enough to rise above, command the stage, and move the subject on to topics of their choosing. I think Obama had this talent. All the shrieking about his pastor Jeremiah Wright he just flicked off his shoulder like it was lint. He knew how to capture the narrative. For all Hillary Clinton’s expertise and experience in policy, she just didn’t seem to have the talent to command the narrative. And she was running against a candidate who is a singular master at that.

    For 2020 I’m going to be looking for candidates who can command the media narrative in their own way and just rise above all this silliness. Beto O’Rourke and Ocasio Cortez are two younger candidates who seem to have that sort of talent. I’m not saying that ACO is remotely ready to run, just using her as an example of someone who knows how to command the media narrative. I’m not sure that Sanders actually does have this talent as he basically got a massive pass by the media in 2016. I kind of think Warren does. This will be the test. If she gets past the DNA nonsense the rest of it won’t likely stick as they will have taken their best shot and failed. The rest of the field I’m not so sure about yet.

  76. 76.

    J R in WV

    January 6, 2019 at 6:39 pm

    @Kay:

    Have to say, no crime, no time, innocent all the way!

    Anyone still rooting around after DNA scandal is just plain old right wing crazy!!!

    No offense, Kay, just where I am on this.

  77. 77.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 6, 2019 at 7:07 pm

    @Lurker123: And companies like Romney’s Bain Capital, and hedgefunds have done it here to many of America’s venerable corporations. Sears is the latest, example.

  78. 78.

    Brachiator

    January 6, 2019 at 7:14 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    And companies like Romney’s Bain Capital, and hedgefunds have done it here to many of America’s venerable corporations. Sears is the latest, example.

    Sears would have died even without the problems hedgefunds brought them.

    And I guess the end may be near, according to a recent Bloomberg News story.

    Sears Holdings Corp. is preparing to potentially wind down the iconic retailer after Chairman Eddie Lampert’s bid to buy several hundred stores out of bankruptcy fell short of bankers’ qualifications, people with knowledge of the matter said.

    This is going to be horrible for the employees involved.

  79. 79.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    January 6, 2019 at 7:32 pm

    @Brachiator: It doesn’t, and I should have been clear about that.
    @Mike in DC: She already does, and supports lots of such legislation.

  80. 80.

    Ian R

    January 6, 2019 at 7:37 pm

    Warren is perfectly likeable. I happen to like her more in the Senate, which we need every bit as much as the presidency. That said, I’m sure she’d be a fine president.

  81. 81.

    JDM

    January 6, 2019 at 8:59 pm

    I like preachy and angry when we need some Warren-style anger and preaching. And we do. Time to fight.

  82. 82.

    ...now I try to be amused

    January 6, 2019 at 9:05 pm

    @dm:

    I’ve been thinking that the Democrats ought to use “Make America great again” as their 2020 campaign theme. That is, rebuild America from the mess crafted by the vandal-in-chief.

    Or, “Restore honor and dignity to the White House.”

  83. 83.

    kindness

    January 6, 2019 at 9:26 pm

    I think Senator Warren comes off as home spun. She is certainly likeable and the right is working overtime trying to manufacture the meme that Warren isn’t likeable. The MSM is more than nibbling at the idea sadly. Funny how the MSM treats Democrats so much different than Republicans. It’s exactly why we are where we are now. The media.

  84. 84.

    Mary Ellen Sandahl

    January 6, 2019 at 9:27 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Certainly not the Neville Longbottom actor– a nifty character very well portrayed. More like Draco Malfoy, a poor man’s version.

  85. 85.

    JR

    January 6, 2019 at 10:22 pm

    @Brachiator: Almost all the department stores are doomed. Sears, Federated, Penneys, etc.

    I can see a few survivors: Nordstrom, Target, Walmart; but they’re going to be using drastically different strategies in order to do so.

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