Senator Harris made the announcement on Good Morning America a short while ago. Here’s a clip:
JUST IN: @KamalaHarris on announcing she will be running for president in 2020: "I feel a responsibility to stand up and fight for who we are." https://t.co/qUX1sERxxZ pic.twitter.com/NcSHFTRIny
— Good Morning America (@GMA) January 21, 2019
Smart move to talk security and remind people that we are less safe with an erratic fool who squanders our moral authority and undermines our global standing in the White House. Trump uses security as a cover for his racist border policies, and Harris calls bullshit. Good.
I also like that Harris brought up the fact that Trump prioritizes his own interests over the country’s. It’s indisputably true and scandalously under-covered in the media.
Looking forward to learning more about Senator Harris and what policies she favors in the coming months.
On the Road and In Your Backyard
Baud
I can’t believe she chose GMA over Today show. Deal breaker.
debbie
I look forward to contrasting her eloquence with Trump’s word-saladism.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I thought she did well on Colbert, but it’s the long distance that tests the runner.
Ohio Mom
Happy she waited for GMA. When that rumor she was going to announce on The View was floating around, I winced.
I still don’t have any strong favorites but Harris is edging up.
Damien
I’m on set today, but literally the minute her LA office opens I’m calling to try to work for her. I believe in her as a politician and as a candidate more than any other, and I’m so excited that I might have the opportunity to jump on her campaign at the outset the way I should have with Obama.
Wish me luck, jackals!
Baud
@Damien: Good luck.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Damien: Good luck! To you and to the good senator.
Patricia Kayden
I like all of our major candidates except Tulsi Gabbard. May the best person win and go on to soundly defeat Trump. I’d like to see Beto put his hat in the ring and Bernie decline to run.
Kay
@Damien:
Oh, good luck. Primaries are fun (except the 2016 one).
Baud
@Kay: It was ok prior to the bird of death.
mad citizen
I also like all the D candidates (except Gabbard, who doesn’t seem like a major candidate–have no knowledge of this Gabbard person other than what I’ve gathered here), but like Harris the best. Likeable and smart–in general.
Kay
@Patricia Kayden:
I don’t really “get” the appeal of Beto, other than the oddity of Texas being competitive, and I don’t think Biden should run- at all- but I’m great with the rest.
Kay
@mad citizen:
She’s not a major candidate but she’ll get outsize attention because she hates the Democratic Party.
I just don’t think there’s an identifiable part of our base for her. They have to put pieces together and her piece (if it exists at all) is tiny. There’s a good reason senators and governors run and not house members- they win whole states. Every one of these senators had to put together groups of Democrats- in the case of California they had to put together a HUGE group of people.
MomSense
I think she’s the only candidate who is going to inspire all the creativity and passion we will need to defeat the GOP, media, Russia, and dark money.
Baud
@Kay: Agreed.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: I totally get Beto’s appeal — he’s got tons of charisma and comes across as authentic. The viral video of his response to a town hall question about football players kneeling to protest police brutality and inequality showcased his best traits, IMO. But he should probably sit this election out, perhaps serve in a national post in the next Democratic administration to pick up more experience and then think about running. He’s 46 and looks younger. He’s got time.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
This is the time in the cycle to get some practice in.
Kay
@MomSense:
I don’t know that much about her but I do like her positive presentation. I like positive candidates. Also- they must be people persons :)
I realize what I most object to about Trump is how cynical he is. All of his various (horrible) character traits can be boiled down to “trick people and screw them before they screw you”. That this is admired makes me feel hopeless. It’s all so petty and mean-spirited and low.
JPL
@Damien: Good luck. I like her slogan. Kamala Harris for the people.
MomSense
@Damien:
I jumped in early with Obama- one of the best experiences of my life. This campaign is also going to be epic. Grab this opportunity with both hands.
Waldo
Smart former law enforcer and woman of color vs. lawless old white idiot?
Works for me.
Zinsky
I like many of her ideas, but she has a manner that is very off-putting, I think. She couldn’t beat Trump either. 2020 is not her year, IMHO.
MomSense
@Kay:
Her announcement message is about values- perfect. One of the things Iearned from the Obama campaign is that every message, every issue is tied to the value.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I did watch that and it was good. I was at a loss with the opposition to the football players. I don’t think I have seen a better example of respectful, serious political speech. If you object to that you object to political speech. I would teach that to 5th graders and be shocked if anyone objected. It’s textbook to me. But maybe it needed to be said.
Damien
@MomSense: I got to be an Executive Volunteer Coordinator for West LA for the election itself, which was truly magical in a way that I have never experienced since. I dove in headfirst to the media aspect of the 2018 election at the state level with a group trying to flip vulnerable state legislatures, and it wet my appetite for some political hand-to-hand.
I also like that unlike Gillibrand, Kamala isn’t starting her campaign talking about her potential ability for “working with the other side” like that’s something to be proud of. I get the sense that she understands that we’re facing an existential threat and she’s not going to be waffling, which just makes me all the more excited.
Harris for the People, Gillibrand for the Pundits, Gabbard for the Republicans!
ETA: Also, I already operate on one to four hours of sleep, so what else am I gonna spend my energy on?? ;P
rikyrah
Thread
Lisa Sharon Harper (@lisasharper) Tweeted:
I’ve been watching videos all day. I have one thing to say (in a bunch of tweets, so hold on): The videos BACK UP/STRENGTHEN Mr. Nathan Phillips’ account of what happened toward the conclusion of the #IndigenousPeoplesMarch on Saturday. They also reveal how it all happened. 1/
https://twitter.com/lisasharper/status/1087174914673655809?s=17
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Haha, I came here to see what the “deal breaker” was going to be! First out of the box!
rikyrah
@Kay:
The people who like Dolt45 are petty, mean-spirited and low.?
They showed their lack of character when they voted for Dolt45.?
debbie
@MomSense:
I really like Harris’s statement about Trump putting himself before the country. Lots of people think this; but no one at this level has actually stated it. (That I know of.)
rikyrah
@Damien:
Wishing you luck?
kindness
I’d be happy with any of the announced Democrats so far. ‘Democrats’ is doing a lot of work there. Tulsi isn’t an actual Democrat. Hawaii only elects Democrats so Tulsi is added it to her name. Also, Democrats doesn’t include Bernie because Bernie isn’t a Democrat. Bernie is a reverse Paul LePage. Bernie intentionally splits Democrats allowing Republicans to win.
I do like Kamala though. Proud she’s my Senator.
MomSense
@Damien:
Ha! You are going to have to check in here so I can campaign vicariously through you.
Kristine
I’m hoping Trump is out of the picture in 2020. Hope springs eternal.
Unless the resulting backwash of sewage takes out most of the GOP possibilities, the MSM cry that the order has returned will boost whoever runs on their side. We already know white people will happily vote against their own best interests if it means they can drag others down with them, which is the long way of saying that Dems will have a hard time. All means legal and illegal will be used against our nominee. I hope we’re ready.
I don’t want to sound like a downer, but I still can’t believe that Trump lasted 2 months, much less two years.
rikyrah
Kamala Harris in 2006, about criminal justice reform
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1073605742266122241
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Zinsky: I don’t find Harris’s manner off-putting at all. It’s a lot like that of successful academic women I know. They get down to business and tend to be impatient with silliness.
kindness
@Zinsky: Dude. An overcooked noodle will be able to beat Trump. Trump will carry his base and that’s it.
lamh36
@Zinsky: what exactly is “off putting” about her mannerism? Im gonna need specifics on that.
Betty Cracker
@kindness: I hope Gabbard’s foray into presidential politics gets enough attention to attract a top-tier Democratic primary opponent so she gets bounced from her House seat.
sdhays
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Dealing with Republican Senators must be torture. No wonder she wants out already!
rikyrah
Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) Tweeted:
This is why the right invests so much time attacking AOC: they fear that her near pop culture status will make people listen to her ideas who normally wouldn’t. The irony is, the more they attack her the more they elevate her.
https://t.co/ku3p2Gswjk https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1087345350103519232?s=17
lamh36
Kamala is my chosen candidate…so I’ll admit here and now I’m all in.
Amen…especially if you don’t come correct
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
Me too. It’s Hawaii…we can do better than Tulsi?
geg6
I do find her appealing in many ways. But I guess I’m not sold yet. So far, to me, there is no obvious front runner who wows me the way Obama did. But then Obama had me in 2004. I knew immediately after his keynote speech at the DNC that I would do anything to make sure he became president. I haven’t gotten that feeling about any of these people. I do, however, like most of them (no, not Wilmer or Tulsi). We’ll see where it all goes. Even if it ends up someone I’m not thrilled with, I’ll be voting for him/her.
kindness
@Betty Cracker: I really don’t understand Hawaii politics. It is a Democratic paradise since so much of the population are from non-European countries. They are liberal but they have odd pockets of conservatism which I don’t get. Tulsi is a liberal Republican more than a Democrat. She sides with Republican notions far too often for me to trust her.
germy
sheezacop!daveNYC
@Betty Cracker: The argument that a candidate has time is a weird one for me. Sure he’s 46 and can probably get a gig that keeps a roof over his head and racks up some political points, but if he sits this one out his next shot at the big house will (hopefully) be in 2028. So I can see how someone might not be too excited about needing to stay on the sidelines for a chance at making a run ten years from now. Long term thinking is all good, but ten years is a hell of a wait.
My mom made the same argument about her state legislature race, which is a very blue district where the Democratic primary is the only thing that matters. For that race it was even a worse situation since whoever got the seat probably wouldn’t be leaving except feet first, so it could easily be 20 years before a chance at that seat opened up again, plus switching districts for that sort of run can be real hit-or-miss.
…So does Harris take CA out of play for the other candidates?
Ceci n est pas mom nym
I knew Harris was running days ago. I saw she had a book on the new book display at the B & N and commented to my wife that it looked like the kind of book people wrote when they were running for President.
lamh36
@Dorothy A. Winsor: here is the thing for folks to remember it’s looking like Kamala being a woman of color I expect her to get the same attitude they gave PBO, but especially expect folks to give her the same bullshit they out Michelle O through. So I’d like folks to be aware of and try not to deal in the same tropes the right will in regards to Kamala. Disagree, dissput sure, but come correct with it and not in racial or racialist terms ya know what I mean?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@daveNYC: I thought I read something about Michele Obama saying 2008 was Barack’s year because if he waited longer, he’d become more DC insider. (I’m hedging because I thought she didn’t want him to run at all, so maybe that’s a fantasy quote.)
debbie
@rikyrah:
Hawaii already has!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@lamh36: I agree and if I’m doing that, tell me! I’m educable. But, like I said, I hang out in academia and she reminds me of that. Actually, I suspect my own manner is a lot like hers. My colleagues at Iowa State told me I was occasionally unintentionally rude at meetings
germy
They’re frightened of her, so the attack pieces have begun:
lamh36
@Betty Cracker: Let’s get down to it.. Beto’s appeal is that he’s white and charismatic…yet Stacey Abrams and even Andrew Gilliam came closer in their elections than Beto did, didn’t they? In Abrams case, the election was outright stolen, IMHO (Gilliam was the Bradley Effect in Florida, where’s old racist white folk go to die).
Why ain’t Stacey Abrams, talked about in the same breath or moreso than Beto? You can probably guess my theory on why.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I knew Harris was running days ago. I saw she had a book on the new book display at the B & N and commented to my wife that it looked like the kind of book people wrote when they were running for President.
(Please delete duplicate comment in moderation)
JPL
@lamh36: I want her to run against Sen. Perdue. She’s popular in the state and would have a real shot of winning.
Baud
@germy: If she’s lost the Intercept, she’s won my heart.
mad citizen
@rikyrah: Watching this clip reminds me how great the chasm is between many Dems and Donny Dollhands. It’s so rereshing to be able to listen to someone who can talk about facts and policies, and doing things, than the soundbite tactics of the Republicans.
germy
@lamh36: Agreed. And she’s been an activist for a long time, longer than Beto.
I will support Abrams wherever she goes.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/stacey-abrams-looks-at-her-options-after-the-narrow-loss-in-a-georgia-election-marred-by-disputes-over-voting-irregularities/2019/01/20/fe56ace8-1b55-11e9-9ebf-c5fed1b7a081_story.html?utm_term=.c7866bdbbd0b
germy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/stacey-abrams-looks-at-her-options-after-the-narrow-loss-in-a-georgia-election-marred-by-disputes-over-voting-irregularities/2019/01/20/fe56ace8-1b55-11e9-9ebf-c5fed1b7a081_story.html?utm_term=.c7866bdbbd0b
schrodingers_cat
@lamh36: Kamala and Beto are my top two candidates. And I will tell you why I like Beto, he speaks eloquently about immigration and immigrants. After the non-stop demonizing from the WH and during the presidential election by the R candidate, I wish our eventual nominee is able to speak eloquently about these issues.
The other person who does that it is Pramila Jaypal, who was born in India so is not eligible to run for President.
ETA: I think Stacy Abrams is pretty impressive and would make a great candidate if she were to run and I would certainly listen to what she has to say with the greatest interest.
bemused
I just wish we didn’t have presidential candidates start running for the office two years before. I don’t know if less time campaigning would make a big difference or not but I’m exhausted by the continual campaigning. I’m also trying to tamp down my nostalgia for Obama and also Michelle. That kind of charisma and excitement is probably a once in a lifetime occurrence.
Kay
Not every state uses “the people v..” Ohio uses the state v, while Michigan goes with California on “the people versus..”
Princess
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Your memory is excellent. That’s pretty much exactly what she said. It might have been in her speech at the Iowa State fair. Once he decided to run, she was all in for him.
Betty Cracker
@lamh36: True, but AFAIK, Abrams and Gillum haven’t made any moves that suggest they’re considering a 2020 run, whereas O’Rourke has.
chris
From Kamala’s press secretary:
lamh36
@Betty Cracker: right…they haven’t. I think it’s smart of them to assess and see what’s out there. But still…the stories are NOT even putting them in the conversation, and if Beto is, the also should be.
There’s a strong chance that Abrams runs for Senate…makes me want to move to GA just so I can vote for her…lol
lamh36
@JPL: I actually think that is where Abrams heart is…I really did get the sense that she’s in it for her home state…and with the travesty of the election I think she really wants to change the way things are done in GA
Kay
@germy:
The story the writer linked to says kids have to miss more than 10% of school with unexcused absences- so that would exempt illness.
If the school year is 180 days they are missing 18 days of school. That’s a lot. If it’s a 4 week month they’re missing almost a month of school. The standard in Ohio is 15 days and we use juvenile courts, “delinquency” (which is not criminal) but arguably it’s better to reach parents with a law than kids, right?
I mean it’s something we could discuss but it’s not insanely draconian, especially since other states (like mine) haul the KIDS in for truancy.
lamh36
If not for sometimes needing cheaper flights, Delta is my airline of choice!.
Damnit Delta…I’m not crying…you’re crying!!!
Kay
Also, they get between fifteen and twenty “warnings” to get their kids to school. That’s a lot of warnings. The school personnel who are doing all this warning can’t put their efforts towards the kids who show up.
rikyrah
Palmer Report (@PalmerReport) Tweeted:
Right-wing “Democrat” Tulsi Gabbard is now placing blame on her own Democratic Party for the shutdown. Just a reminder that Tulsi Gabbard is a piece of fucking shit, and if you haven’t yet denounced her 2020 campaign, you’re part of the problem.
https://twitter.com/PalmerReport/status/1087230648669085697?s=17
NotMax
@chris
Sounds more orchestrated than spontaneous, doesn’t it? Considering the program hadn’t aired yet in some places where it was 3 or 4 in the morning at the time?
rikyrah
@lamh36:
Just dust ???
Betty Cracker
@lamh36: Agreed. Maybe Gillum, who was also robbed (in part) with phony corruption insinuations that evaporated right after the election, will run against that piece of shit Rubio. That’s a long wait though — Rubio’s seat isn’t up until 2022.
daveNYC
@Dorothy A. Winsor: DC Insider might be some of it, I suspect that Senator being such sweet job also makes it easy to decide to stay put.
@germy: She was a District Attorney and CA’s Attorney General, as such she has some legitimately not very good looking decisions on her record from those jobs. She also took actions in those roles that will benefit her in the primary, but she was a prosecutor and that’s going to come with some baggage.
chris
@NotMax: Huh, maybe. That hadn’t occurred to me.
lamh36
maybe this is why Tulsi decides to run for Prez?
BruceFromOhio
THERE IS NO WAY I WILL VOTE FOR candidate name BECAUSE SHE/HE/THEY/IT DID/DID NOT reasons.
Copy, file, send.
Ohio Mom
@rikyrah: I agree with the woman who wrote that twitter thread, the proper response is Walk Away. Make it clear that you are ignoring whoever it is — in this case, at the start, the Black Hebrews.
Instead, the Catholic school boys, with the encouragement of their chaperones, stayed put and started shouting school cheers. This to me is the combination of complete lack of city smarts and privilege.
When you grow up in a city — as I did — you are taught from an early age not to engage with rabble-rousers, panhandlers, anyone who wants to get in your space uninvited. It is presented as a safety thing, up there with looking both ways before you cross the street.
None of these suburbanites knew better, all of them thought the thing to do was assert their presence — because privilege: “I’m not slinking away, I’m declaring myself. Especially since I’m white and they are not, and they need to be reminded of that.”
Um no, the blessing of the urban crowd is that you can slink away from anyone who makes the hair on your neck stand on end. Whoever they are, and whatever higher status you think you have is immaterial.
Hyped up, they continued this behavior with the drummer. And they still don’t get it, you move out of the way and keep moving.
Of course the entire weekend’s theme was celebrating male privilege, so we shouldn’t be surprised they were on a roll.
Baud
@NotMax: She tweeted out the announcement also. Wouldn’t surprise me if she got at least one donation from Alaska and Hawaii.
Baud
@BruceFromOhio: That’s fine for the primary. Unacceptable for the general.
BruceFromOhio
@Kay: This. Love what I’m seeing so far, still pains me to think we might lose a decent Senator in the end.
BruceFromOhio
@Baud: Of course, I’m just being a dick about it, as these threads seem to follow that pattern.
Baud!2020!
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker:
One announced yesterday and he sounds great.
Link.
zhena gogolia
@rikyrah:
Really good. She’s an orator, which I really like.
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
It’s her two X chromosomes.
Kay
@BruceFromOhio:
I have to support Sherrod because I told the “insurgent” county Democrats I would and the insurgent faction already don’t like me :)
Primaries are really low risk for regular people. Nothing at all happens if you pick the loser. You just switch over to the winner. No one cares, but these particular people will care if I don’t support their fave and “make trouble”, is how I think of them :)
Mai Naem mobile
@Betty Cracker: she’s got a primary opponent. I was looking up Hawaiis cong.seats. Ed Case has Honolulu so essentially the ‘urban’ area and Tulsi’s seat is the rest of the islands – the more rural areas. I think Tulsi also won because she sold herself as a military vet but was also a surfer. I remember the media tongue bath pieces when she initially won her seat.
zhena gogolia
@BruceFromOhio:
Yeah, I’m pretty much the opposite of that right now. (except no Bernie, no Tulsi whoever she is)
Right now I’m going with Harris. I like her brains.
Mai Naem mobile
@BruceFromOhio: oh, Gavin Newsom can appoint Adam Schiff,Ted Lieu or Ro Khanna to Kamala Harris’ seat. California can totally afford to give up a Dem Senator for the good of the country.
lamh36
Kamala official a nnouncement video:
https://twitter.com/kamalaharris/status/1087327713277460481?s=21
Also too, she’s heading to SC first.
chris
@Baud: Of course! Time zones are so 20th century.
Yarrow
@lamh36: That is smart for her to go to SC first.
BruceFromOhio
@Kay: Do what you think works! Senator Brown is the real deal, and if he takes the nom, I am all in. Makes taking down Portman that much more compelling.
Ian R
I’d really rather someone who isn’t a Senator run, given how small our potential 2020 Senate margins are. At least her seat isn’t likely to flip if she wins, unlike Sherrod Brown’s.
That said, I think she’d do a great job, and will happily support her if she wins the nomination.
BruceFromOhio
@Mai Naem mobile: Ted Lieu in the Senate would be a wonder to behold. Thank you for making this cold, grey morning a little brighter with that thought!
Just One More Canuck
@Dorothy A. Winsor: would they have said the same thing about a man? They probably would have said that he’s ‘confident’ or ‘assertive’
Rufus Firefly
@chris: The “fifty states in thirty minutes” announcement strikes me as the politics-as-usual approach that I fear Harris represents. Prior to her announcement I heard and interview of her on NPR with fairly softball questions and she appeared to reply with formulaic nonreplies. This election winning is necessary but not sufficient: the leader of the ticket needs to deliver an across the board wave of crushing proportions. Otherwise the gop will fight a rear guard action and the resulting stagnation will give us something far worse than trump a few years down the road.
Johnnybuck
@JPL: me too
Mai Naem mobile
I like Kamala Harris and Sherrod Brown. Not excited about Warren . I don’t know how Harris and Brown will wear in a long primary. I like Beto and wonder if his experience running in Texas would help him in a long primary. I also think Beto has that ‘q’ charisma factor.
chopper
i’d vote for her in a second. despite how she shivved franken.
wot, too soon?
Betty Cracker
Californians, do you think Gavin Newsom is going to run in 2020, even though he was just sworn in as governor? I’ve heard he’s got FB ads running in swing states, but that could be BS. I don’t know anything about him, really. Heard him interviewed on one of the Obama bro podcasts a while back, and he seemed to have good ideas and an ability to explain them. But on the other hand, he used to be married to former Fox News personality and current Don Jr. girlfriend Kim Guilfoyle, so maybe he lacks judgment? :-)
Miss Bianca
@chopper: ha ha.
I am excited about all the major (women) players who have announced so far. (Not Tulsi – I mean, I am excited about her, but not in a good way.)
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker:
I did not know that! Gross.
debbie
@NotMax:
When was the last spontaneous announcement for candidacy? They’re all orchestrated!
justawriter
I will support any and all Democratic candidates willing to fumigate the White House in January 2021, but can I leave a wakeup call for a quarter past Iowa or maybe five to New Hampshire when the field has been whittled down to a manageable half dozen or so candidates?
mad citizen
@Ohio Mom: Ohio Mom, you nailed the situation. I watched a few longer stories/videos of this incident last night, and I was struck and saying to my wife, these people are from Kentucky south of Cincinnati and simply don’t know how to behave in this situation. I grew up in the suburbs of Fort Wayne and live in the suburbs of Indy, so haven’t spent a whole lot of time in big cities. But have spent enough time in Chicago and San Francisco and Oakland to have learned what you are talking about. Great points throughout!
Betty Cracker
@Yarrow: Maybe she wasn’t a RWNJ back then; I don’t know. I know a couple of people who are married to RWNJs, and I don’t know how they do it. It’s hard enough having relatives who voted for Trump. I wouldn’t voluntarily enter in to such an arrangement.
dmsilev
@Betty Cracker:
No. It’d be a very bad look for him. If, God help us, Trump (or Pence, or whoever) wins in 2020, I definitely could see him running in 2024, but not this cycle.
JPL
@lamh36: Thank you and I passed it on.
Salty Sam
@Betty Cracker:
Agree 100%.
I canvassed for Beto last year, even though I pretty much knew he would not make it (“Forget it Jake, it’s South Texas…”). My first thought when it was called for Cruz (SPIT) was “OK, Beto, time to hunker down and start building cred…”
As much as I wanted him to win last year, I hope he sits out ’20. I totally get those here who don’t get Beto’s appeal, and spending a cycle doing good works and building his game would go a long way to allaying those fears
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker: She makes my skin crawl. RWNJ or opportunist or whatever she is, I don’t trust her. Newsom seems very slick, so maybe their political opportunist sides just worked well together for awhile.
A Ghost To Most
@chopper: dick.
Turgidson
@Zinsky:
The way things are going, an ambulatory tub of hemorrhoid cream will be able to beat Hair Furor. People are so scarred by his win* that a belief has taken hold that he has some sort of mystical power over more than the MAGAtard base. He doesn’t. He lost the popular vote, and has only gotten more despised since. He lost what was supposed to be an impenetrably gerrymandered House in a near landslide. He’s losing the arguments over his wall and the Russia probe. And the economy he inherited from Obama is finally looking like it’s running out of steam right as election season starts, which would truly torpedo his already slim chances to win* again.
Not saying we can take anything for granted, but saying “he/she can’t beat Trump” about formidable, well-prepared candidates like Kamala or Warren is ridiculous. They both can and probably would beat him. And probably badly.
Gelfling 545
@Ohio Mom: My sister says she would like to see a Harris/O’Rourke ticket with Harris for pres. I think I could be ok with that, as things stand now.
Immanentize
@JPL: her slogan reminds me of my favorite political slogan ever by John Fitgerald (Rose Kennedy’s father and JFK’s grandpa):
“The People, not the Bosses, should Rule!”
Kay
@Ohio Mom:
I worry about the internet pile ons with kids. I’m not naive about them- some of them are horrible, my own were sometimes horrible, but I think we can draw a line between kids and adults. They’re just too squirrely and fragile to subject to that.
Sarah Sanders or any other hacks? Have at ’em. Random adult racists on the internet? Feel free. But there’s real risk with kids. Unless we know them well we don’t know how they’ll react. I was relieved the kid put out a statement. I was afraid he was having some kind of breakdown.
Turgidson
@lamh36:
…and they will come. They will.
The Leftier than thous will keep banging the “She’s a cop!” and “but OneWest!” drums all the way to the convention.
hilts
@Patricia Kayden: @daveNYC:
All this Beto for president talk is total bullshit, his resume is too thin. Instead of running for President, why doesn’t he run against that lying lowlife John Cornyn?
I like all the announced candidates so far except for Tulsi. Also too, Biden and Sanders are too fucking old, period, end of story.
Kattails
Bitterly cold here with a -25 wind chill, the bird feeder is incessantly busy. We got 8 inches of fine snow yesterday. I just looked out an upstairs window–it drops off behind the house, so you can look down on some spruce branches. Without my glasses, I thought there were 3 fat potatoes in the tree. With glasses they morphed into three very unhappy mourning doves.
Very glad to see Harris running. Although I’m in NH, so far I’d prefer her over Warren but with no real specifics to back that up. Look forward to seeing everyone’s policies and principles laid out. And Bernie can take a flying fork.
Nicole
@chopper: I laughed.
I think the Dems should do an all-women ticket. I really do. Eff trying to reassure snowflakes (much as I liked Tim Kaine).
Fair Economist
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, we don’t want a President who’s too young. He’d only be 48 at inauguration. Look at the awful Presidents inaugurated younger – Teddy Roosevelt, JFK, Clinton, Grant, and Obama. Wouldn’t want another like that! //
Fair Economist
@hilts:
Because he’d probably lose, and then he’d have “loser stink” from losing twice. It’s not in his political interest to run against Cornyn, and he’s not going to do it.
Gelfling 545
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Which should be a virtue in a president.
Yarrow
@hilts: I wonder if he will. He just ran against Ted Cruz for the same job so I kind of don’t think running for Senate again two years later would turn out any differently. Unfortunately, running for statewide office in TX as a Dem is tough. That limits the large office options of someone like Beto or Julian Castro.
Gelfling 545
@Zinsky: Are we going back to sure I’ll vote for a womsn but this woman isn’t perfect?
stinger
@Damien: Good luck to you! and to her, and to us all.
Tehanu
@Kay:
The NYTimes this morning:
trollhattan
@Patricia Kayden:
I like all of our major candidates except Tulsi Gabbard. May the best person win and go on to soundly defeat Trump. I’d like to see Beto put his hat in the ring and Bernie decline to run.
You just saved me some typing. :-)
Fair Economist
@Betty Cracker: Nah, I don’t think Newsom will run in 2020. It’s too opportunistic to jump so fast, and splitting the Cali vote with Harris would be a real disadvantage, especially to the one without support beyond Cali, which would be him. He has a rep as a lightweight as well although his policies as Governor are changing my mind, but he’s not going to erase his rep in a year.
Nicole
@Kay: Not to mention that the Internet got the wrong kid initially. That kid’s brother put out a series of tweets about the harassment the family has received since the incorrect ID. I see folk (including Dan Savage, who has a HUGE following) have deleted tweets they put up in an attempt to mitigate the damage they caused by leaping to ID, but when you google the kid’s name and Covington, the deleted things still show up in search results. The Internet is forever.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Gavin 2020 ain’t happening. Gavin 2024 is guaranteed if we lose in 2020. Of course president of what? would be the more relevant question under that scenario.
satby
¡Hola amigos! I like Harris and Warren the most so far, and together they would be close to a dream ticket for me.
I’m now in Aguascalientes Mexico, a bit off the beaten path for tourists. Had a wonderful dinner with my younger exchange son’s extended family (like 20 people!), delicious home cooked traditional meal and lots of conversation, most of which could be summed up as “Trump, WTF America?” Most people in the U.S. don’t realize (or care) that Mexico has granted asylum to hundreds of the caravan migrants and has to maintain refugee camps for the ones who are stopped at our southern border. So add the shame of being a much wealthier country with the resources to support the migrants dumping that onto a poorer country to handle.
We need to do so much better.
Kay
@Tehanu:
The NYTimes political team really excel at psychoanalysis of Donald Trump, I must say. Too bad they didn’t have any of this amazing insight during the campaign, although he’s been running his sleazy fake-empire in their backyard for 50 years.
Sometimes too late is just too late. Can’t be remedied. It’s too late for political media to tell us what they know about Donald Trump. Needed to be TIMELY. We all figured it out without their help.
trollhattan
Where have our formatting buttons gone?
Fair Economist
@Salty Sam:
But – the most reliable way to build cred is to run a decent race for a Presidential nomination. It’s a big boost to future prospects for statewide races, or for a future Presidential run. Just sitting around for 4 years is not good for cred, and running for Senate against a tougher opponent will likely lose him cred. So his best option is to run. He seems a team player so I’m not worried about him causing division and while he’s not my policy choice I think he’d be strong electorally, so I am cool with him running and I think you should be too.
Betty Cracker
@Fair Economist: I’m not saying he’s too young, just noting that he’s not up against some perceived age window like other candidates are, e.g., Warren and Biden.
kindness
@daveNYC: Please identify any ‘baggage’ Kamala came to own while being California’s Attorney General. I live here. She was then who she is now. It hasn’t changed.
Just being a prosecutor isn’t a negative thing to Democrats. Acting like it should be isn’t a good sign on the person doing the acting.
ThresherK
@Fair Economist: Grant was that young when inaugurated? I had no idea. Musta been the beard.
Kay
@Nicole:
I’;m not sure it is “forever” for them. I just have one example, one 16 year old, but they seem to shape-shift as much as they always did. I think they’re accommodating their new reality in new ways- learning to deal- and one of the ways they seem to be doing that is minimizing the impact.
But you don’t know and they’re squirrely and go every which way, so we have to be cautious. I just hate pile ons generally. I cringe at the random adult pile ons too. I draw this “celebrity” distinction that everyone may not draw, where some people are fair game because they’re powerful and/or famous. I don’t like punching down.
daveNYC
@hilts: Beto has only slightly less experience than Obama did. Six years in the house and six on the El Paso council vs. three years in the Senate and seven in the state Senate. Even Hillary only had eight years in the Senate, though that also depends on how much weight you want to give to her time as First Lady.
I’m not saying we should vote for someone whose only experience is six weeks as the back dog catcher someplace, but generally speaking I think a decade’s worth of experience in government is going to be enough for me to say someone is qualified, all other things being equal.
chopper
@Nicole:
totally for real i’m totes gonna deliberately vote for trump over any democrat who was involved in shivving franken. and when i push the button in the voting booth i’m a yell out FROM WISCONSIN’S HEART I STAB AT THEE!
actually it’s mail-in here in WA, so i’ll just have to yell it out as i fill in the bubble.
Kathleen
@Kay: Well as we know there is “political speech” and “political speech engaged in by ‘Those People'”.
Fair Economist
@ThresherK:
My thought too, plus he had been the top general for the US Army 4 years earlier! Dang he must have been good. The Vicksburg campaign *was* truly amazing – probably the most daring and impressive of the war, including all of Lee’s early defenses which get all the attention.
Nicole
@chopper: I would totally watch video of someone screaming as they fill out their mail-in ballot.
J R in WV
@Baud:
I’m a Democrat, and will vote for the Democratic candidate in the 2020 general election. That excludes Senator Bernard Sanders and Ms Gabbard — neither of whom is an actual Democratic candidate. I’m not sure either would be much improvement over Der Drumpf; both would be divisive and anti-immigrant, though perhaps not as openly fascist as the current administration.
Nicole
@Kay: I agree about kids, but I do find it really frustrating that our legal system will try in a court of law (mostly black) teens as adults, while white teens are very quickly given the “but they’re just kids” defense.
And I know the answer is not to treat white kids as adults; it’s to stop treating black kids as adults, but it still frustrates.
Betty Cracker
@chopper: Gillibrand is the official designated hate object for the BUT MUH FRANKEN crowd, so all the other ladies (and gents!) who participated in his ouster can rest easy on that score, including Franken.
J R in WV
@Yarrow:
Some guys have a lot of trouble thinking clearly when in the company of a woman they respond to in a certain way. There’s even an old country saying about the big head getting soft… which seems to apply to lots of younger guys, unlike an old-timer like me…. hahah. ;-)
Kay
@Kathleen:
It was such a mess to me, the objections. Something to do with…the troops? What? Are “the troops” really offended by a peaceful protest and since when do they make the rules anyway? I’ll give them expertise in military and war issues but they’re not experts in anything involving an anthem or a flag.
So I’m suspicious about how all these supposedly smart and savvy people looked at a fucking CLASSIC example of respectful political speech and came away red faced and spittle flecked. I don’t buy it. My God, do some measure of self examination! Something’s up with black men protesting! Clear as a bell.
Brickley Paiste
Kamala Harris is really the only viable nominee. Black votors who turned out in record number stayed home in 2016. We Democrats have to have an African American on the ballot.
It’s unfortunate that Harris is a product of the corrupt Willie Brown machine – who got her start in politics by fucking Willie Brown and since then was happy to stand with cops following police brutality and to eschew any leftist or progressive principles when they did not further her career. She isn’t terribly smart, either.
She’s a rank opportunist and she’s the candidate we need.
Kay
@Nicole:
Oh, I’m firmly in the kids as kids camp. They really do think different. Not that it matters but I thought his statement was baloney. I watched most of the tape. The smirk was hostile and the rest of the tape adds some context but not anything that changes that interaction. That was some kind of challenge he was issuing and it was done for the crowd, IMO.
J R in WV
@trollhattan:
They are still there for me on Firefox, maybe something is wrong with your device/software??
daveNYC
@kindness: This is from the Wiki. Just the bad stuff though, there’s other stuff in there that’s pretty good, though mostly on the financial and environmental side. There’s nothing wrong with being a prosecutor per se, but they’re on the enforcement side of our justice system, and our justice system has a fair amount of problems. As such, pretty much any prosecutor is probably going to have taken actions that a lot of liberal people aren’t going to be happy with. She’s also done a lot of good stuff too, but that doesn’t mean that the more questionable choices should be ignored nor be considered when deciding who to support in the primary.
The Wiki stuff:
In 2012, Superior Court Judge Anne-Christine Massullo ruled that San Francisco District Attorney Harris’s office violated defendants’ rights by hiding damaging information about a police crime lab technician, and was indifferent to demands that it account for its failings.[44]
Prison conditions and sentencing reform
After the United States Supreme Court in Brown v. Plata (2011) declared California’s prisons so overcrowded they inflicted cruel and unusual punishment, Harris fought federal court supervision, explaining “I have a client, and I don’t get to choose my client.”[8] After California failed to fully implement the court’s order to reduce crowding, and was ordered to implement new parole programs, lawyers for Harris appealed the decision on grounds that if forced to release these inmates early, prisons would lose an important labor pool. The prisoners were earning between 8 and 37 cents per hour.[69]
Harris refused to take any position on criminal sentencing-reform initiatives Proposition 36 (2012) and Proposition 47 (2014), arguing it would be improper because her office prepares the ballot booklets.[8] Former California Attorney General John Van de Kamp considered her explanation “baloney.”[8]
Daniel Larsen case
On August 24, 2012, the Los Angeles Times published an editorial calling on Harris to release Daniel Larsen from prison.[70] Larsen, who was sentenced to 28 years to life under California’s three strikes laws for possession of a concealed weapon in 1999, was declared “actually innocent” by a federal judge in 2009 and ordered released. Evidence in favor of Larsen included that of a former chief of police and the actual owner of the knife. Larsen’s original lawyer, who failed to call a single witness, has since been disbarred.[71] Larsen remained in prison because Harris’s office objected to his release on the grounds that he missed the deadline to file his writ of habeas corpus. The California Innocence Project, which had taken up Larsen’s case, said this amounted to a paperwork technicality. The Times editorial stated that if Harris was not willing to release Larsen, Governor Jerry Brown should pardon him. In March 2013, Larsen was released on bond with the case on appeal by order of Attorney General Harris “on technical grounds”.[71] In September 2013, the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals upheld the ruling, and on January 27, 2014, the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office dismissed the charge.[72]
County prosecutors’ misconduct
In 2015, Harris defended convictions obtained by county prosecutors who had inserted a false confession into an interrogation transcript, committed perjury, and withheld evidence.[8] Federal appeals court Judge Alex Kozinski threw out the convictions, telling Harris’s lawyers, “Talk to the attorney general and make sure she understands the gravity of the situation.”[8]
In March 2015, a California superior courts judge ordered Harris to take over a criminal case after Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas was revealed to have illegally employed jailhouse informants and concealed evidence.[8] Harris refused, appealing the order and defending Rackauckas.[8]
Harris appealed the dismissal of an indictment when it was discovered a Kern County prosecutor perjured in submitting a falsified confession as court evidence. Harris asserted that prosecutorial perjury was not sufficient to demonstrate prosecutorial misconduct. In the case,[89] Harris argued that only abject physical brutality would warrant a finding of prosecutorial misconduct and the dismissal of an indictment, and that perjury was not sufficient.[90]
Yarrow
@J R in WV: Dating or sleeping with her is one thing. Marrying her is another. Says something about his judgment.
trollhattan
@Brickley Paiste:
Just stop.
trollhattan
@J R in WV:
Neither Firefox nor Chrome show them in Win 10. Weird.
Kathleen
@Kay: Absolutely. I’m home sick from work today and watched an HBO movie called “Boycott”, a drama which covered Dr. King and the Montgomery bus boycott. It struck me how we’re still hearing the echos of Whites’ “objections” to King’s coalition’s demands (including bus drivers should be considerate to Black passengers). Towards the end, officials decide the boycott is somehow illegal and indict the organizers for supporting it. Don’t have to read subtext of today’s commentary/”news” reporting to see we’ve not come very far when it comes to how we white people interpret and report on African Americans.
Brickley Paiste
@trollhattan:
We can’t wait for the perfect candidate – we have to go with the candidate who will WIN.
Enjoy riding your purity pony.
MisterForkbeard
@Brickley Paiste: Oh look, it’s the “I technically supported Hillary argument and she was awful and terribly and I totally an unverifiable voted for her so you can’t blame me for Trump and Both Sides” behavior.
Knock it off. It’s not like we havent seen you do this already for an election cycle.
Brickley Paiste
@lamh36:
Exactly right. Black women are going to determine who is president in 2020. Democrats have to have a black woman on the ticket.
Another Scott
@MomSense: I just looked at her announcement video. It’s a great message, but I hope they tone down the super-fast cutting between images. It’s kinda jarring for this near-oldster.
[/kibitzing]
Good luck to her and all of our sensible candidates.
Cheers,
Scott.
trollhattan
@Brickley Paiste:
“Enjoy riding your purity pony.”
What in the everloving fuck are you babbling about? You’re the one claiming she fucked her way to success. Now that makes her your top candidate?
stinger
@lamh36: @debbie: No kidding. Most candidates announce that they’re going to make a big announcement, and then the announcement is that they are forming an exploratory committee. A direct “I’m in” is increasingly rare. And why in the world not coordinate ahead of time, so that the announcement can come with a fundraising splash? That’s just smart.
Miss Bianca
@Betty Cracker: Meantime, here’s what Gillibrand herself has to say on this issue:
Now, someone might be prepared to argue that “NOOOOOO, Franken *totally* deserved a pass because REASONS” – like I was – but the one thing you can’t fucking argue is that Gillibrand was somehow being “opportunistic” on the issue of sexual harassment and abuse. I mean, sure you *can* argue it, but not in good faith.
I have grown to feel increasingly ashamed that I was one of the ones to dog-pile her on this blog.
Brickley Paiste
@MisterForkbeard:
The first rule of politics is to win. Harris can win.
Miss Bianca
@trollhattan: Forget it. That person is delusional to think that anyone here actually gives one-tenth of a shit about his pathetic trolling attempts. Just a sad little jerk-off
joel hanes
@Kay:
I don’t really “get” the appeal of Beto
Interesting. I thought his off-the-cuff response to the hostile audience question about athletes taking a knee was brilliant : eloquent and sincere, and might actually change some minds.
ETA: or what Betty Cracker said.
mad citizen
Reading the Harris wiki excerpts does not give me any pause about supporting Harris. Thanks for posting them here, always better to be informed than not. I’m hoping, and doubt, there are any skeletons in Harris’ closet waiting to come out. Seems like the other side would have already brought them out by now.
lamh36
@Brickley Paiste:
(Stares motherfuckerly)
You ain’t foolin’ nobody
But her emails!!!
@Miss Bianca:
The counter was never that Franken should have been given a pass, but rather the Senate should have fully investigated the charges. We now know of course given the dozens of additional and more egregious charges and incidents that came to light after Franken stepped down that this was certainly not a Republican ratfucking operation.
Miss Bianca
@But her emails!!!: We now know of course, given the demonstrable good faith that Republicans have always shown in investigating Democratic Affairs of the Pen!s, that there is NO WAY that a “full Senate investigation” would have turned into a shit-show that would have splattered all over the Democrats. NO WAY, dude.
ETA: Also, there is NO WAY that the Democratic Senate leadership could have gamed it out and come to the conclusion that such an investigation could have more negative effects than positive, because Democratic leadership is just always sooooo out of it.
Brickley Paiste
@trollhattan:
What are you talking about? There isn’t any question that she fucked Willie Brown and got government appointments. She herself says she regrets “dating” Brown. After she fucked Brown she got a couple of plum political appointments – the Unemployment Appeals Board and then the Medical Assistance Commission. This stuff is public record and was well known at the time in the Bay Area legal community.
It’s good that all of this negative crap is coming out now so she can get innoculated by it and get it behind her.
trollhattan
@mad citizen:
Her non-handling of Larry Wallace would seem to be the most significant known issue. She needs to address and put it to bed because in the #MeToo era it can be a boat anchor, otherwise.
She’s smart, she can handle it. Confess ignorance of her inner circle and campaign team, an area Obama truly excelled with. They have similar paths, at least for now.
But her emails!!!
@Miss Bianca: it almost certainly would have turned into a shit show.
Immanentize
@daveNYC: I’ve got to say, that is pretty thin for a “bad prosecutor” sauce. It looks pretty common and “establishment” decision making for a top prosecutor overseeing a huge system. Not all great decisions, but no real stinkers in there.
To be clear, I am a lifelong defense attorney in three (plus) states and I have battled bad prosecutors long and hard. But this stuff, although not perhaps good in the individual cases, is not that bad as a career whole. If that’s what the farther left criminal justice reform advocates have, it’s not much. And, her prosecutor experience will smooth a lot of centrist voter feathers.
trollhattan
Is it too early for pie? Friends, it is never too early for pie.
MisterForkbeard
@Brickley Paiste: Great. I agree. Now stop trolling.
Taking every opportunity to yell “We should vote her despite all these terrible things I’m going to go over exhaustively and in the worst possible light and then never mention positives or any other interpretation” is… counterproductive to say the least.
If you want her to win it push a Dem candidacy, learn how to not be an asshole.
Immanentize
@lamh36: {{Heart}}
justawriter
@Kathleen: In the spirit of the day …
Brickley Paiste
@MisterForkbeard:
Go fuck yourself.
Democrats have to be realists in 2020. Trump would get 40% of the electoral votes if he were were running against Jesus Christ. Having a D next to your name is not, repeat NOT, going to guarantee victory in 2020.
The single most important thing is to get black people to the polls. They did not show up for Clinton in anywhere near the numbers that they showed up for Obama.
Next priority is turning out the female vote. Harris checks that box, too.
She doesn’t really have any core political principles, but she will govern basically as a moderate democrat so she’ll be fine.
joel hanes
@lamh36:
Delta is my airline of choice
Immediately kicked the NRA affiliation after Parkland.
I wrote them a glowing letter, and Cc:’ed Wayne LaPierre
Mnemosyne
@Ohio Mom:
Judging by Facebook, now that the longest videos are available, opinion seems to be turning against the adult chaperones who let their charges argue with weird, abusive cult members for an HOUR until Mr. Phillips got worried and thought he should intervene since the adult chaperones were doing nothing helpful.
MisterForkbeard
@Miss Bianca: I was unhappy about Gillibrand at the time, but not because I thought she was wrong – I was just pissed that Franken (whom I liked) was getting smeared. But Gillibrand wasn’t really part of that and the “shes so ambitious shes knocking off a rival” never made any sense.
She’s handling it well now, but I do think it’ll unfairly hurt her in the primary.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Brickley Paiste: You do you.
Meanwhile, I’ll happily vote for a West Coast progressive liberal candidate for President for the first time in my life!*
California is our country’s future (for better & for worse). The future of the Democratic Party is female, and mixed-race. We need a “reform-prosecutor” to clean up Homeland Security, ICE, and the DoJ. We need clear-eyed leadership in our foriegn policy, following the Obama doctrine (don’t do stupid shit), to restore trust with our allies and undo the damage of the Trump administration. We need someone to stand up for “we the people” against corrupt and abusive systems of all kinds.
I’m pretty fucking excited about Kamala Harris. She is the right candidate for us in 2020.
* Wasn’t old enough to vote in 1992, the last time I would have had a chance to do so.
lamh36
@Brickley Paiste: one mo’gin for those people in the back…
you ain’t foolin’ nobody
RollSound
@kindness:
My generation calls that a Nader.
Elizabelle
@Ohio Mom: I love your comment.
And yes.
Mnemosyne
@But her emails!!!:
I have reluctantly accepted that sacrificing Franken was necessary to get Doug Jones into the Senate. If Franken had stayed in office, pedophile Roy Moore probably would have been able to eke out enough votes to win because Republicans would have continued to whinge about “Democrat hypocrisy” and “both sides do it, so why punish our candidate?”
Gillibrand is not my preferred primary candidate — I’m probably going to stick with my junior senator, Harris, in the primary — but if Gillibrand runs a great campaign and comes out on top, I will happily work and vote for her in November of 2020.
NotMax
@stinger
I have noting against (and said nothing against) the announcement.
Promoting coordinated, prearranged donations as (a) newsworthy and (b) indicative of some groundswell of support is, at the very least, disingenuous, that’s why.
Brickley Paiste
And her campaign slogan is brilliant: ” Kamala Harris – for the people.”
It picks up on her proprietorial background (prosecutors often identify themselves before juries as representing “The people of the State of _______”.
Her actions as prosecutor will not endear her to progressives and Bernie Bros but she knows that they are not the one’s who are going to be deciding the election. That is smart.
Mnemosyne
@Brickley Paiste:
Oh, look. The guy who’s been spitting vitriol at Harris for at least three years is now claiming he’s been behind her the whole time while continuing to bash her. Color me surprised.
MisterForkbeard
@Brickley Paiste: Oh look, you be returned to the “Shes awful so everyone vote for her and pretend I’m helping!” schtick.
Right back at you. Go fuck yourself onto another website. Maybe one where you can all grouse about how terrible all Democrats are and how you’re all so morally awesome for voting for those terrible, terrible people that normally no one would ever vote for.
Maybe focus on how Democrats (and Harris) have good points? Or how your central argument is that Harris is black so therefore AAs will vote for her? Christ, what a fuckwit.
Brickley Paiste
@NotMax:
Are you fucking serious?
So the most important characteristic for a candidate for you is that they be honest and spontaneous or something? Please.
Stagecraft is part of politics.
Elizabelle
@Kay:
The kid did not put out a true statement. Daddy and Mommy’s money bought a PR firm to put out a statement of lies. I would have more respect for the kid if he said he was wrong and regretted the whole thing.
Because that was the “I’m in your face and your space” face we have seen from lunch counter protests, school desegregation, the whole of it.
Mostly, I think these teachers and chaperones have to be punished too, because their own judgement was deplorable. In all its senses. They seem to have been absent, or in insufficient numbers.
Omnes Omnibus
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: FTR I have no real problems with her overall record as a prosecutor (nor do I give a flying fuck about her relationships from two decades ago), but how is being a former prosecutor going to help function as a president? It will certainly help her with some moderate voters, but that is different thing.
MisterForkbeard
@Mnemosyne: I feel like we need a new filter in addition to the pie filter. Maybe we let the garden variety trolls get pied, but these recurring idiots get the “dumbass filter”, where they just repeatedly insult themselves in increasingly creative ways.
Fair Economist
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: I agree, Harris is great. Of a great field, considering all the elements – experience, policy, electability – I think she is the very best. I love ’em all, but her most.
Mnemosyne
@NotMax:
In this day and age, lots of people have news alerts set up on their phones and personal devices, and Harris has been rumored to be planning to run for at least a year. I actually don’t find it that odd that a few night owls or very early risers on a holiday weekend might have still been awake for her announcement.
If they’re saying that she got hundreds of individual donations from Alaska and Hawaii at that hour, I’ll agree with you, but, say, 20 or fewer individuals from each state would seem quite plausible.
Brickley Paiste
@MisterForkbeard:
Look dumbass – you’re painful lack of awareness and tactics is emblematic of why democrats couldn’t beat a candidate as patently awful as Trump.
Look, when Harris the the nominee and I am phone banking for her or knocking on doors, that’s the time to tout how she likes puppy dogs and really, really, cares about soccer moms/the unemployed/restaurant workers/whoever I am talking to.
But the pre-primary that is happening now is to get the political machinery behind Harris and you do that by talking about electability. The audience here and in the backrooms across the country could give a shit less about whether she likes kitties and puppy dogs at this point.
Grow up.
Fair Economist
@Mnemosyne: Don’t reply button you-know-who. He probably gets paid for each one.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
IMO a fair question for that office. As senator it’s clearly an asset, as with her committee assignments. Same observation extends to Adam Schiff.
Fair Economist
Fortunately Harris is great on policy as well as electability so the political junkies and backrooms are already for her. I saw an interesting poll of Democratic activists (can’t find a link, sorry) – they varied a lot in who their top preference was, but almost everybody had Harris in their top 3. She’s somebody all Democrats can get behind enthusiastically, and that counts for a lot.
Brickley Paiste
@Fair Economist:
Exactly. I would much prefer Warren, but she can’t get elected.
Mart
@Miss Bianca: Like you had a John Cole conversion moment.
Fair Economist
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, her real experience is managing a large bank of talented prosecutors to get convictions.
Just spitballing – what do you want to happen to Trump, his accomplices, and his handlers? Who, exactly, will be the person making the ultimate decisions on that? Do you want it to be somebody who has been doing this for decades, or somebody new to the job?
opiejeanne
@Fair Economist: That was the second attempt at Vicksburg that was brilliant. The first one didn’t go so well; support didn’t make it to Vicksburg in time. I’m trying to remember who was responsible, probably Grant. Sherman led the Union Army in a two-pronged attack on Vicksburg, Grant tried to draw out the Confederate army by stopping in Oxford. That didn’t work.
My great great grandfather died as a result of wounds he got in the Chickasaw bayou. That battle is sometimes called the Battle of Walnut Hills.
Brickley Paiste
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think you’re putting the questions in reverse order. The only thing that matters is getting a D elected. The policy stuffy is gravy.
Fair Economist
@Immanentize: Yeah, the claim that in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of prosecutorial decisions she made 4 mistakes, one of which she later reversed, is just incredibly weak sauce.
Emma
I am already on record as supporting AA women’s decision on the next candidate. But there’s only one thing I am personally looking for, and that is strict adherence to a Democratic version of Reagan’s eleventh commandment. Policy discussions, yes. Dirt throwing, no. Any candidate whose campaign is based on attacking other democrats personally goes into my sh_t list.
Scotian
Personally, and I suspect this would be true for a lot of people outside America (and possibly some within it) I’ve thought your best candidate is HRC. As in she won the pop vote widely in 2016 despite ALL of the ratfucking from TWO entities, the GOP and Russia. the intervention of James Comey at the last minute may have been the coup de grace but it was the constant attacks thanks to the ratfuckers and their enablers in the media that were the real problem, like soaking ground with water until that last rain shower which hits saturation and you get a mudslide. Not to mention the poisoning of the well on her own side thanks to Wilmer in the latter part of the primary after it was clear he was losing.
These are all nice reasons for why she should be run again, but I actually only have one which I think is a good reason…to show everyone that Russia does not pick American Presidents.
Yes, I know, pipe dream. Sadly.
In the actual field so far…I’ve got little sense of who would best fill the slot in the current reality, and I can at least hope that the constant political raping of HRC and the far too often willingness to not stand up for her by many supposed progressives/Dems in America has finally brought clear to Dems and progressives that they are not dealing with honourable opponents but those that view them as enemies to be destroyed at any and all costs, even your democratic institutions. Say what you will about HRC, SHE got that.
For those that think beating Trump is a no brainer this time around, I only remind you that was prevailing wisdom Nov 8 2016 too even after the Comey intervention was clearly making it closer. Assume he can win and think, plan, and act accordingly. The biggest danger for humans are blind spots, so why, Why, WHY then repeat creating one which you already know is dangerous because it got you President Agent Orange? I just cannot understand that mindset, I really can’t. Not to mention you forget the ratfucking machines from within and without aka GOP and Vlad. Really a dangerous mindset.
For me this is about my national security, because Trump (and his GOP enablers, not least Turtleman aka McConnell) has endangered it on multiple fronts, from trade to security to contract law being respected to the international infrastructure which underpins the entire notion of the rule of law which ALL western nations rely upon and which Trump is massively undermining right along with his attacks on NATO. Canada relies more on these institutions than most western nations so really this does cause a bit of concern in getting rid of the current insanity which is Trump Republicanism.
Harris so far strikes me as one of the best choices to declare so far, I just hope all have learned the lessons of HRC and 2016. I took a lot of crap because I predicted Trump could win from early on, how dare I dismniss Birdie Sanders, etc. For me, it is watching from the outside as Americans decide the fate of my world for me, not a comfortable sensation, and why many think they have a right to at least kibitz American politics despite not being Americans. The price of wanting to be the “leaders of the free world” and all that…
Sorry, I know meandering, and not much about Harris, I simply have not got enough information digested to do so with fairly, and I try to offer up informed opinions (they can still be wrong of course, but at least I try to go wrong in an informed way…).
MisterForkbeard
@Brickley Paiste: “I’m going to aggressively shit on Democrats, repeat Republican propaganda, and then whine when my friends dont like Democrats. This is all the Democrats fault for choosing bad candidates.”
Grow up yourself. Maybe realize that the best way to work for something isnt to scream about how terrible it is all the time. And that you depress Democratic enthusiasm, bolster false Republican propaganda AND turn off independents when you do so.
Stop punching yourself in the face.
Omnes Omnibus
@Fair Economist: I think it should be handled by the DOJ with the President being strictly hands-off.
Miss Bianca
@MisterForkbeard:
Unpossible.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Fair Economist: With a former prosecutor and Attorney General like Kamala Harris, you get someone who has worked within law enforcement “systems” and will be more knowledgeable regarding effective approaches to reforming those systems. And law enforcement reform needs to be a high priority for the next administration, following the proliferation of systematic human rights abuses by ICE and others under Tump.
germy
This is what is called a “hot take”
Brickley Paiste
@MisterForkbeard:
You’re not realistic about how elections work.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
I agree someone wrote it for him (I would have made it less self-aggrandizing, myself, but there’s no accounting for taste) – I was relieved to hear from him. I don’t want him overwhelmed and despairing. Some of them take things hard and they don’t have perspective. They’re impulsive. I literally cannot imagine that much negative attention at that age. It worries me, how they have such public lives. Maybe I’m just being stodgy and they’ll adjust, but, wow. That must be mind blowing.
Miss Bianca
@Mart: Not quite that extreme – I’ve always been a Democrat! ; )
Miss Bianca
@Scotian: I would, personally, vote again for HRC in a red-hot second. But that’s not how American politics works, unfortunately – we are not, as a country, prepared to accept responsibility for allowing Republicans, the media, the hard left BirdieBros, and the Russians to make our decisions for us.
Hillary would just get to be That Bitch redux, and maybe, only maybe, grudgingly, get spun into That Bitch Who Was Right About Everything But Benghazi and Emails.
If I were her, I’d be taking a hard pass, too.
trollhattan
@Kay:
Serious family concern about his Princeton chances. How to fill out the “Special projects and community involvement” portion of his app. “Outreach to women’s and indigenous peoples” looking a little weak ATM.
Miss Bianca
@Kay:
Kay, if you honest to God think that that kid could actually feel enough angst to kill himself – rather than do exactly what he did do, which is to issue a “sorry-not-sorry” statement that doubles down on his basic asshole-ishness and sense of privilege – then you have way, way more faith in him than I do.
trollhattan
@Miss Bianca:
She’s somebody who has literally given her all for country and at this point owes us bupkis. I do wonder, however, whether laying low for the 2020 campaign is the best tactic, recalling that Bill sat out Gore’s campaign and could well have tipped the scales his way with some key campaign stops (he left office with sky-high ratings).
Mart
@Miss Bianca: Understood. Just kind of funny to me how all the Gillibrand sucks/Franken stuff came rolling in. Just today I read some shocking news about Beto – he helped a down-ticket R beat the Dem, and he is the son in law of a billionaire!!! I could never vote for him also too. Just read back in the day Harris was tough on crime (like Obama, the Clinton(s), and the rest of D’s as all the rage in the day). I remember telling my R friends early on I did not like Obama as he was too far right. (OK – I voted for Edwards in the primary – whoopsies.) Never slowed my support or votes for Obama in the general.
Suzanne
Love her. LOVE her.
I’m all in.
Now….who’s her VP?
Scotian
@Miss Bianca:
I did note it was a pipe dream…sadly I get that, but I do think it would be the best cleanser for the situation your nation is in if it were viable, but since it is not…agree with you I do…:(
Miss Bianca
@Mart: My True Progressive friends (yes, I still have them) are now all onto the Grauniad’s hot take on Booker, Gillibrand and Harris – to whit, that they are not True Progressives, and True Progressives Must Not Be Fooled into thinking that they are. Or something. By that measure, Beto is so last week as a concern. ; )
joel hanes
@Elizabelle:
teachers and chaperones … seem to have been absent, or in insufficient numbers.
This gives them entirely too much credit.
They helped outfit those kids in MAGA hats.
They were standing on the edge of the crowd through the entire episode, laughing and in some cases encouraging their charges as they confronted first the purposely-provocative “Black Hebrews” and then the Native drummer who tried to calm the waters. The superintendant was one of the “chaperones”.
This Catholic school is in a small diocese that had to pay tens of millions to settle clerical sexual abuse lawsuits.
This fish rotted from the head.
daveNYC
@Immanentize: Oh yeah, she’s not in the corrupt fuck barrel enabling prosecutor category. I absolutely agree. But these are things she’s going to have to defend in the primary. Same as Gillibrand is going to face her more conservative House record, Warren will have to deal with her… something, there’s always something.
I’m just generally trying to say that there legitimate points of criticism for all the candidates, Harris no less than the rest.
Nicole
@Elizabelle:
Did you read the one the mother (I think it was from the same child’s mother) emailed to the WaPo? They should have hired that PR firm before she sat down at the keyboard. A proofreader wouldn’t have hurt, either. ;)
hilts
@Fair Economist: @daveNYC: @Yarrow:
Beto would have long odds against Big John but the advantage of him running for this seat would be that it forces the Republicans to spend a lot more money than if Cornyn faces some Democrat who no one’s heard of and has no buzz.
Just One More Canuck
@Suzanne: Poco? Baud?
Julian Castro? Jay Inslee?
Nicole
@Kay:
I thought the same about the statement. As the Hoarse Whisperer tweeted, a person in a MAGA hat is not approaching from a place of respect for other cultures.
Can we start calling MAGA hats “Klan caps”? Or heck, Klan Kaps; I don’t care. I think time we lefties took control of that particular narrative.
Fair Economist
@hilts: Would Beto Senate 2020 be good for the Democratic party? Probably, although if he is actually on the Presidential ticket that will help in other races like KS.
Is it good for his future electoral prospects? No, not compared to a nomination run.
What will Beto do? Well, would you risk a very promising political career to improve the Democrats’ finances in 2020?
chopper
@Fair Economist:
god, i hope it’s not the president. it’s bad enough the current guy is trying to order the DOJ around. i like harris but i am in no way voting for her so she can direct from the WH prosecutions of people. that’s the DOJs job.
Matt McIrvin
@Scotian: In the modern United States, primary losers get to run for President again, but unsuccessful party nominees for President don’t. That’s how it works. There’s no legal restriction, but if you get nominated and you lose, you have loser stink and the party is not going to nominate you again.
It used to be different. The Democrats ran William Jennings Bryan repeatedly. Grover Cleveland got elected a second time after being defeated as an incumbent. But the parties seem to have decided otherwise.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Matt McIrvin: Richard Nixon would like a word with you.
wasabi gasp
I read this whole thread and am left with no idea of what you people want besides Trump out of office.
Burnspbesq
@daveNYC:
Anybody who is treating that stuff as disqualifying has some ‘splainin’ to do
Burnspbesq
@BruceFromOhio:
CA Dems have a deep bench. Lieu or Swalwell would be teriffic replacements for Pres-elect Harris.
MCA1
@Nicole: I kind of like “Red Hats,” myself. Maybe because it sort of invokes both “rednecks” and “Redcoats,” which carry heavily negative connotations to most.
My level of concern/sympathy for these boys is much lower than Kay’s here. I get that they’re young and impulsive and stupid, and potentially fragile in the fact of intense online opprobrium. And they literally have no idea of how destructive Trumpism is to America and how counter to our ideals this entire era is, given their youth and naivete.
Nonetheless, they were acting like insensitive entitled assholes. Perhaps that’s because they’ve been taught their entire lives to behave that way. But that’s sort of the point. They need to be properly shamed, because it would appear that the adults in their lives are not properly informing them that the rest of the world no longer takes well to dickish little douchecanoes acting like the shitheels who grinningly squirted ketchup at lunch counter protesters 55 years ago.
Zero concept of the lived experience of anyone from any other cultural context? Think it’s cute and clever to wear your MAGA hat because it pisses off people you’ve been told you should hate? Well, then sorry you have to learn the hard way that outside your little bubble there’s an angry world that’s offended by the revanchist bullshit you take for truth. Half of them will double down on some sort of “antifa is censoring me blah blah blah political correctness” garbage, I suppose, but maybe some of them will also see that there are consequences to mocking a traditionally oppressed people.
wasabi gasp
@MCA1: Re: red hats
They’re maga piñatas filled with sour patch kids begging to be hit with a stick.
Miss Bianca
@wasabi gasp: I’m sorry, but were we supposed to be providing you – as opposed to “you people” – with some sort of “Democratic Platform 2020” primer? Was that supposed to be the point of this thread? Must have missed the memo on that one.
Maybe the fact that you chose to use the term “you people” means you wouldn’t get it, anyway.
wasabi gasp
@Miss Bianca: That’s some weak sauce.
Felanius Kootea
@Gelfling 545: Ooh!!!! That is a combo I would love.
Betty Cracker
@Brickley Paiste: Insinuating that a woman with Harris’s qualifications slept her way into politics is sexist as fuck, and if you make a remark like that again in one of my threads, I’ll punt your goddamned comment into the fucking sun. Are we clear?
Ruckus
@daveNYC:
It’s rather difficult to have enough experience, and yet not be too old. And where does one actually get the experience to be president? Possibly as VP. From what I’ve seen over my lifetime learning as VP only works when one learns from a good president. But the reality is that we can’t expect someone to have shown all the traits necessary to be president, and not be up in the age bracket. IOW I think we need to widen our concepts of the office. It is way too much work to be done properly by one person and every good president had a number of key competent people beneath them, helping along the way. So if someone had that level of job, say a AG, that might just be a not unreasonable building ground for the office. And if some one was a great Senator and not too old and set in their ways, that might be enough. Someone that’s been in the house for 2 or 4 years? I don’t think so.
divF
@Betty Cracker: I have this asshole pied, but I did sneak a peek at your response – and it did not disappoint. Brava, Betty !