BREAKING: Speaker Pelosi responds to President Trump; says the House will not consider a concurrent resolution that would authorize the president to deliver a State of the Union address in the House chamber until the government is reopened. pic.twitter.com/VHqIkQLW7D
— MSNBC (@MSNBC) January 23, 2019
(Screen shot of Speaker Pelosi’s letter to the President regarding the State of the Union)
To follow on BettyC’s post from earlier today, the only way the President, or anyone else for that matter, makes a joint address to Congress is if both chambers pass a joint concurrent resolution inviting that person to do so. Speaker Pelosi has now made it abundantly clear that until the partial shutdown is ended and the parts of the government that are now closed are reopened, there will not be a joint concurrent resolution brought up, let alone passed, in the House of Representatives inviting the President to deliver the State of the Union address. The President needs to come to terms with a simple reality: he is not in control over this matter. Speaker Pelosi is both smarter than he is and a strategic thinker, which he isn’t. He has no power over her. And he has no power over the House of Representatives, provided it is is not being led by a figurative invertebrate, like Paul Ryan, who is afraid of mean presidential tweets, Gym Jordan, Mark Meadows, and the base of the Republican Party. While Senator McConnell may be willing to finish his project of transforming the Senate into a parliament subservient to the President as head of government provided the president is a Republican, Speaker Pelosi is not willing to do that with the House of Representatives. She is also not going to play the President’s games. She said no, she means no, and she has the ability, unlike the President’s other female targets and victims over the years, to actually enforce that no.
Expect more and more presidential petulance punctuated by a temper tantrum or several as the shutdown drags on and that mean lady Speaker Pelosi continues to tell the President that he can’t have his ice cream (the State of the Union address) until he eats his vegetables (does his actual job and agrees to reopen the closed parts of the government) before this faux crisis created by Paul Ryan’s weakness and the President’s petulance actually leads to a real one.
Open thread!
bemused
I got an instant mental image of trump lying on the oval office floor flailing his arms and legs and screaming his lungs out.
Brachiator
Tell it.
babditqueen
The Dump bum expected to walk right in–had been told NO once already, wasn’t going to ask-just sent a second letter stating he was coming over like he was the King of Everything. He has now been told NO twice. He needs to try to get it, however much he’s ignored it before: NO means NO.
Brachiator
@bemused:
And of course he is unable to get up afterwards.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: @babditqueen: She already told the White House, via their Legislative Liaison Officer, that she wouldn’t authorize a walk through.
MisterForkbeard
Nancy Smash, etc.
I’m hoping that Trump comes to his damn senses or McConnell means up and they just pass a clean CR, at least temporarily. Instead I suspect Trump is going to show up and whine in person and the media will largely shrug and say “Who can possibly tell who’s at fault here?” Because that would be maximally stupid.
Kent
OK, Biden is toast: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/us/politics/biden-speech-fred-upton.html
Salty Sam
Carry on Madame Speaker, you are doing a fine job. Although I would have preferred you had not made the original notice about security concerns, and more about ending the shutdown (and yes, I know that was rolled into the security concerns). But that is a minor quibble- the way this thing is playing out is…very satisfying.
(not so much for the Fed workers, but you know what I mean)
Litlebritdifrnt
I just love it how Nancy Smash keeps kicking him in the nut, and there is not a damn thing he can do about it.
khead
Uh – minor quibble – but as you know it’s already pretty real for some folks.
Ian R
Surely you mean, “Expect more”.
Punchy
Typically, yes. But we’re not in typical times. What’s the punishment if Trump enters the building anyway, escorted by the entire R caucus? Normally, that’s impeachable. But Senators have already indicated that under no circumstances whatsoever will they vote to impeach. Basically, Don Donnie can face no punishment for any of his actions, legal, moral, or otherwise.
I still dont think he’ll try it, because at heart, he’s a gutless coward. But to think it’s not possible, especially if/when Coulter and Hannity order him to, is a foolish thing to believe.
Mike in NC
Slapped down by a woman who isn’t one of the undocumented, underpaid workers he’s used to groping at his sleazy casinos. Loving it. A wall of furloughed government employees ought to physically block his limo from transitting Pennsylvania Avenue.
Jerzy Russian
That is going to leave a mark, or at least it should.
That is not being fair to all of those spineless creatures like worms and jellyfish, who just want to make an honest living like the rest of us.
Kenneth Kohl
Bravo, Nancy, bravo!
raven
@Litlebritdifrnt: I wrote you a couple of message abut Atlanta yesterday, did you get them?
bemused
@Brachiator:
That was my second thought, lol. No way he’d manage to get himself off the floor without at least four staffers helping him up….or would they?
Adam L Silverman
Flatlining the economy to own the libs!
chris
Looking forward to the exploding head. Metaphorically of course.
MazeDancer
Trump loves a gutter brawl, so he will stage one with the Speaker. Complete with stunts by the House GOP.
Distract from the shutdown. Get the base fired up. Media will support him.
KellyAnne’s already callef the Speaker a liar about security risks.
Do they not realize every stupid move they make is another nail in the impeachment coffin?
banditqueen
@Adam L Silverman: If he wants to do his kitty-grab of the House floor on 29 Jan (if the government is still closed), I hope that a furloughed secret service person simply says, “Mr President, you cannot enter this building. You are going to have to come with me, sir”.
Kent
Pelosi can recognize anyone she wants to speak on the house floor. If Trump shows up she can hold a hearing on the shutdown and on national TV take 3 hours of testimony from people affected by the shut down, then recognize AOC and all the other young Dems to give their thoughts before finally recognizing trump at 1:15 am.
He can walk into the chambers but he doesn’t get the mic until she gives it to him.
Mnemosyne
As Ian R said, I think autocorrect bit you at the beginning of your last graf. Expect, not except.
Salty Sam
@Kent: As much as I like the “Uncle Joe” personae, I cannot for the life of me understand why any Democrat who cares about furthering our progressive agenda thinks Biden is a good pick for ’20.
Come to think of it, I don’t think there are (Democrats who care about furthering our progressive agenda) supporting him…
chopper
i mean, ignoring all of the political shit, the SOTU is by far the biggest highest security event in the entire country. literally the whole government is in a single room. the idea that we’d do that when the government has been shut down and unfunded for a month and a fucking half is completely absurd.
Mnemosyne
This is what we get for electing a president who doesn’t understand what “co-equal branch of government” means. He is not the boss of Nancy Pelosi. Neither is Mitch McConnell. They have no authority over her AND SHE KNOWS IT.
sukabi
@bemused: more likely in his private residence, on the pot “thinking up” something stupid to call her which will be incoherently tweeted out at 3am.
Litlebritdifrnt
@raven: No I don’t think I did.
Kent
@chopper: And of course the political appointees at Homeland Security are going to rubber stamp his assertion that all is well on the security front. That doesn’t make it true.
prostratedragon
@MisterForkbeard: I think this as much to McC as to 1-ply, i.e. he has to let the clean CR through before she lets the SOTU resolution through. He can’t keep my obstructing and assume there’s no cost to him.
TaMara (HFG)
I’m not one to give Turtle any credit for anything – but I’m beginning to wonder if he’s stayed in his upside-down stasis hoping MOFO-in-chief’s numbers tanks so badly, Turtle is no longer bound by whatever deal he made with the toddler.
Nancy slapping down the orange circus peanut, again only harder, makes my day.
Gravenstone
@chris: Nothing metaphorical about it. I want full blown Scanners action.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Adam L Silverman: I see Hassett on the TV in the gym and he’s always grinning like he’s delivering wonderful news, no matter what he’s actually saying.
Mnemosyne
@Salty Sam:
An easy “tell” as to why someone supports Joe Biden who didn’t support Hillary is asking them what they think of his Wall Street ties. If they downplay or pooh-pooh his far stronger ties to much more pernicious financial assholes (like with the bankruptcy bill), you know you’re dealing with a toxic misogynist and can ignore them going forward.
Adam L Silverman
@Kent: The US, both parties, and most people, despite what they might say about bipartisanship, has, at least for the time being, moved beyond these types of gestures and actions. Most of the news media that covers politics is, however, very disturbed that their great god Bipartisanship is not being properly worshipped.
Kent
@TaMara (HFG): I can’t tell if he is staying on the sidelines to teach Trump a lesson or just out of self-preservation. Probably a combination of the two. The man is pure evil. But he is not incompetent. He has nothing to gain wading into the negotiations and becoming the face of the shutdown. I think he is at least in part giving Trump a lesson after Trump rejected the CR approved by the Senate at the last minute.
catclub
@Adam L Silverman: strategically it is better for Trump to have a little recession now than a year from now.
An improving economy at the start of 2020 is ideal.
I seriously doubt he thought that issue through.
Adam L Silverman
@khead: I know because I had a full time equivalent contract position go poof because of it.
In this case by crisis I mean we have a major plane crash or a food borne illness outbreak or a non food borne illness outbreak or a major terrorist attack.
japa21
I wonder what the GOP senators thought process will be given Pelosi’s response. They, of course, want to hear from their hero, the Dumpster. If they pass the CR tomorrow put forward by the Dems, they can get it so the SOTU speech can go forward, possibly thinking they can bring it all to a halt again February 8. But I don’t think they would bring it to a halt again. The backlash has been beyond what they expected.
Adam L Silverman
@Ian R: I surely did.
Burnspbesq
@Kent:
The optics on that pretty much suck. Going to be hard to dissuade anyone who is thinking of it as a “betrayal.”
CarolDuhart2
I called both my senators (Ohio)-left an encouraging message for Sherrod Brown, and told Portman (actually got a human being to answer within 3 rings) to vote for the clean bill. Disappointed that it was so easy to get through 202-224-3121. Please call!
Gravenstone
@Dorothy A. Winsor: The face of a natural con man. Seems he’s finally found his true calling, lying (badly) about economics in service of an imbecile.
Adam L Silverman
@Punchy: The Sergeant of Arms reports to her. The President has access to Congress. He has no ability to demand to speak on the House floor unless invited to do so, let alone to actually do it without the Speaker’s permission.
Adam L Silverman
@Jerzy Russian: Hence the figurative before invertebrate.
catclub
@Salty Sam:
ummm, … not every Democrat does think about ‘furthering our progressive agenda’. Some think, hey, maybe he is more electable.
And he drives a Camaro!
Mandalay
Completely O/T, but open thread:
I see that he was on crutches in court. Must have fallen off the balcony or down the stairs in his cell.
Adam L Silverman
@banditqueen: The Sergeant of Arms will inform the Secret Service.
bemused
@sukabi:
Hopefully with very nasty bowel issues.
Cheap Jim
@Adam L Silverman: Hassett, as one of the authors of Dow 36,000, has a history of being very wrong, so there’s no way to tell from what he says what’s likely to happen.
JPL
@Kent: According to the NYTimes he also has emails. I read that Upton supported additional funding for cancer research and there is absolutely no proof that he helped elect him. There are reasons to attack Biden but this might not be one of them.
catclub
@japa21: I think opening up the government for two weeks, so Trump can get his SOTU, and then shutting it down again would be fine with them.
Gravenstone
@catclub: If (when) a recession starts on Trump’s watch, I don’t know that we climb out of it in any reasonable length of time. The markets certainly aren’t going to view him as a stabilizing force when it’s his policies (and/or lack of same) that lead to the recession in the first place. So I wouldn’t factor any potential recovery into his electoral strength.
Kent
@Burnspbesq: In 2016 Sanders made hay about Clinton’s paid speeches to the financial industry. But even she was not foolish enough to endorse GOP candidates during the midterm while pulling down $200,000 paid speeches. No way Biden gets a pass for this by 2020 primary voters. It will become his signature.
Adam L Silverman
@chopper: Except for the designated lone survivor. Say hello to the 46th President of the United States Linda McMahon. Suddenly, over the PA system, Jim Ross hollers: “OH MY GOD! Is that Stone Cold Steve Austin’s music???//
Adam L Silverman
Leonard Leo, come on down!
bemused
@Adam L Silverman:
Never thought I’d be nervous grocery shopping but I am now….all fresh food.
catclub
@Gravenstone:
I don’t know either. But if a recession hits jan 2020 that will be certainly worse for trump than a recession that starts today, and MIGHT be ending around Feb 2020
Adam L Silverman
Here’s her actual letter. Just put it into the post up top:
chris
@Gravenstone: Nah, I wish him an untreatable itch down there and the rest of his life spent with his family in a nice condo in Vorkuta.
Adam L Silverman
@Litlebritdifrnt: I also emailed you Steve’s email address.
SFAW
@Litlebritdifrnt:
What’s amazing about that is that, even as an “old,” she still has pinpoint accuracy. It can’t be easy to get the toe of her shoe past all those rolls of blubber.
Ohio Mom
@CarolDuhart2: I did the same. I never have the slightest trouble getting through to Brown’s office but Portman!
Someone at the Cincinnati office picked up the phone but the other Ohio offices and the DC office had answering machines. That has long been my experience, it’s hard to get through to a Portman intern. One person out of five calls is about average.
@prostratedragon: Agree, I am starting to think Pelosi is really directing this at the Senate Republicans.
There is no face-saving way for Trump to get out of the corner he’s in except if he can blame Congress, and that means the Republicans in the Senate have to stand up.
With any luck they are drawing straws right now to see which of them have to play maverick this time around.
That’s the only solution I can see to this standoff.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@bemused:
http://www.roadkeel.com/~grog/floor%20shaking.gif
Something like that I guess.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
I supported HRC. I didn’t give a shit about her speeches I don’t give a shit about Biden’s ties to Wall Street.
I’m also not interested in seeing Biden run for president.
Gravenstone
Oh goody. We’re apparently going to formally request extradition of Huawei’s CFO from Canada. This should do wonders for soothing frayed nerves between the US and China, right?
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: How the hell did we get to the place where a person is nominated for federal judge that believes tossing around dwarfs is dignity. What’s next baby tossing? wtf..
Mnemosyne
@Kent:
If I were writing the political thriller screenplay of this event, DHS Secretary Nielsen would be this year’s “designated survivor” in the Cabinet. Just sayin’ …
Brachiator
@Gravenstone:
Pointless to speculate.
Neither Trump nor his team are particularly competent when it comes to the economy. However, the market has largely adjusted for this.
Steeplejack
Haven’t read the thread, just saw the headline, but . . .
Right on, Nancy Smash!
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
This is even better than that “I will dog walk you” one.
trollhattan
@chopper:
I forget what it’s called when they do it, but they stash a cabinet member somewhere safe and far away during the SOTU, ready to lead the government in case of…whatevs. It’s an interesting task for the hour or two it takes.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Do you think her bf would be jealous if she got the top spot? Or will it be a turn on?
schrodingers_cat
@Steeplejack: In my family, everyone knew, don’t mess with grandma!
ETA: BTW I was wondering from last night’s thread, what you have in your file on me?
jl
Letters were good enough until Woodrow Wilson.
Not sure IIRC, but I think Washington suggested that the constitutionally mandated message be combined with a kind of 18th century Q&A with Congress, but Congress turned it down in fear it might turn into something that made it too subservient to executive branch. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
If not, might be time to dig up Washington’s suggestion and see if Trump goes for it.
Steeplejack
I hope this gives Trump a well deserved taste of “government shutdown means government shut down—including you!”
Mnemosyne
@Mandalay:
It’s kind of amazing how these creepy white supremacists keep coming up with schemes to trigger a “race war” that never, ever succeed. That was the stated aim of both Manson and McVeigh, and the result for both of the actions was bupkis on the race war front.
You’d think that 40+ years of utter failure would lead them to try something else but, nope, they just can’t let go of the past.
trollhattan
@Cheap Jim:
So…the takeaway is “Buy-buy-buy!!!”?
If a man who never tells the truth tells you he’s lying….
Adam L Silverman
@Dorothy A. Winsor: That boy ain’t right!
Adam L Silverman
@Kent:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/magazine/mcconnell-senate-trump.html
jl
@Mnemosyne: Yes, one would hope that these racists would realize that sparking a race war is not do-able in today’s US. But, some of them probably have serious mental issues, besides the racism. Seems to me that like acting on that fantasy requires some serious mental issues.
Adam L Silverman
@Gravenstone: None of his advisors believe in fiscal policy, let alone countercyclical fiscal policy to combat a recession. There is no way that if a recession happens while the President is in office that it will be appropriately responded to.
Mary G
Get him, Madam Speaker. It’s interesting that he hasn’t invented a stupid nickname for her. Best he can do is call her by her first name. Also, this guy has told like 8,000 lies in two years and he says she doesn’t the truth? GFY, Twitler.
Raven
@Litlebritdifrnt: That’s in the Georgia Pacific Building right by the Peachtree Center Transit Station. That means he can look in any direction from downtown. I hope it’s not within the next two weeks because Atlanta is going to be a mess with the Superbowl. Rents are pretty high anywhere decent but it also depends on what he finds for work and where that is.
Kent
@Brachiator: Employment is generally a trailing indicator in economic recoveries. Even if we see a Trump recession in 2019 and some economic indicators start to turn around by 2020, employment won’t be one of them. And that’s what really counts when it comes to votes.
Mandalay
@JPL: You’re right that the story is not entirely straightforward Biden called Upton “one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with”, yet that NYT story also claimed that Upton was “a powerful lawmaker who in 2017 helped craft a bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act”.
That is factually true and looks awful for Biden, but the article the NYT linked to showed that Upton repeatedly opposed many of the measures in that Republican bill. It looks like Upton and Biden are birds of a feather: Upton is a RINO just as Biden is (to me) a DINO.
So while that article makes Biden look awful, and I’d never support him in the primary, there may be more to the story than that hit piece.
Adam L Silverman
@bemused: Bon apetit!
sukabi
@JPL: you’re a bit late as baby caging and drugging is “official US policy”
HeleninEire
@Salty Sam: Me too. I like Joe. He was a great VP. But his time in politics is over.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
If I were writing the screenplay of this, he would be a co-conspirator thinking he could be the power behind the throne, but he would end up getting stabbed in the back by her, possibly quite literally.
And to be clear, this is all fiction that I’m making up in my head to amuse myself, not a prediction of future events. I want to make sure that’s noted in my FBI file. ?
Robert Sneddon
Question: if the US Senate invited the President to give his State Of The Union speech in the Senate would that be a problem, constitutionally speaking or otherwise? From my recollection as an interested and horrified outsider the Slaveholders Wishlist aka the Holy and incorruptable Constitution only requires the President to let Congress know about the nation’s affairs on occasion — he could do it by letter or even, in this modern age, by a tweet. The three-ring circus of a joint speech to both houses in the chamber of the HoR is not mandated, I believe.
The Senate would probably vote by a majority to permit the speech to take place, the TV cameras would be there, invited guests as well. If the members of the House were also invited to attend and some of them declined, well that would be up to them I suppose as the cameras panned around the empty seats…
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
And also, if I were writing the screenplay of this, all of these things would happen in Act 1, and the rest of the story would be about how the heroic blog commenters bring her to justice. ?
Adam L Silverman
@JPL:
I like mine tossed with extra virgin olive oil, a good balsamic vinegar, kosher salt, freshly cracked black pepper, and some finely chopped fresh basil. The other, other white meat!//
Kent
@Robert Sneddon: The Senate can’t vote by majority vote to invite the president to their chamber. It will require 60 votes to overcome a Dem filibuster. Unless McConnell decides he wants to trash the filibuster for this sort of reality show nonsense.
Frankensteinbeck
I’m trying to figure out which of two purposes Trump’s letter served. One is to try and shift blame to Democrats. Republicans are trying this desperately, and it’s not working. Everyone blames them for the shutdown, and the heat keeps rising. Stunts like the jackass fake compromise are attempts at that, and like I said, they’re not working.
The other is bullying. This is an abuser’s tactic to shut down an uppity woman. Trump is having a great deal of difficulty with the fact that he can’t bully Nancy into submission. It makes no sense to him.
Given the weird writing on the letter, it’s probably the second. He’s not capable of the strategy level of the first, and if someone else were behind it, it would have been written better.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Adam L Silverman: Yes I got it. I have already been corresponding with Steve.
FlipYrWhig
@chris: This is what he thinks should be happening, and he’s getting pissed that it isn’t.
Trump on the right way for a president to resolve a government shutdown, 2011:
Source:
NBC Today Show
Creator:
Meredith Vieira
Event Date:
04/07/2011
Air/Publish Date:
04/07/2011
Face
@Robert Sneddon: I was wondering this, too. If Big Bad Nancy says no, can McCuck McConnell say yes? Or must both groups agree to a speech in either chamber (at which point, the HoR says “GDIAF”)?
Gravenstone
@Mary G: Oh there’s a great blotch, alright. A Great Orange Blotch, currently squatting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
ruemara
@Mnemosyne: They need to understand that if they didn’t get a race war when they were holding us as slaves, murdering us via lynching and using rape against black women as a form of stochastic terror; they’re not getting it now.
Hey Seattle peeps, had a great time, but next year, let’s do the thing, ok?
Adam L Silverman
@Robert Sneddon: 1) The Senate chamber isn’t as big as the House chamber. 2) It would never make it past the 60 vote threshold to proceed past cloture to the simple majority vote.
Barbara
@Kent: I agree that this shows Biden in a bad light and just highlights that Biden is not the best candidate no matter what he tells himself. Biden could have praised Upton at some other time, but doing so right before the congressional election when he had to know his words would be used as campaign fodder for Upton is as bad as Debbie Wasserman-Schultz refusing to go all in for the Democratic candidates in South Florida running against Ileana Ros-Lehtinen because they were best buds. It’s nice that Upton sponsored 21st Cures but it’s rotten to overlook that he did everything in his power to make sure that millions of people would lack access to any new cures that it happened to bring about.
Brachiator
In other news
I look for anti-AOC hysteria to increase on Fox News and among right wing nut jobs, and for Trump to bloviate more about ultra leftist Democrats.
catclub
@Robert Sneddon:
1. It would not be a Joint House-Senate resolution, so since the president is supposed to make the SOTU to the rest of the government, having half of Congress missing is not doing it.
2. majority yes, 60 votes to break cloture? I doubt it.
Mandalay
Oops – Nancy Pelosi failed to consider the embarrassment she will cause Melania:
I really don’t think Conway gives a shit any more. She’s just going through the motions and getting paid, but that’s about it.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Raven: We already planned for him to go after the Superbowl seeing as I looked at hotel rooms on Jan 30 and it was like WTF? Right now we are looking at Feb 3.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
I actually think they’re trying to trigger a new Rosewood, but IMO the Civil Rights Movement took us past that point and white supremacists are never going to be able to raise those kinds of mobs again.
Adam L Silverman
@Robert Sneddon: There’s one other point I want to make: the Speaker of the House has vast powers that cover not just the House, but all of Congress. There was never a formal majority leader in the Senate until changes to internal Senate rules created one in the early 20th century. As a result the Congressional chaplain, the sergeant at arms, etc all work for the Speaker. They don’t work for her and the Senate majority leader together, just her.
Barbara
@Mandalay: Well, it was Fox News, but if it had been me I would have responded, “I really don’t care, do you?”
catclub
@FlipYrWhig:
Funny how Trump thought Obama should be President of all the people, but he only has to be president for his tribe.
trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
Manson family was kind of “the good old days” because there was no Muslim roundup after either of the murders.
Mnemosyne
@Mandalay:
Most adults learn fairly early on that it’s rude to invite additional guests to someone else’s party without their express permission, but I guess Melania never did.
FlipYrWhig
@Mandalay: Oooh, what are we gonna do? I’m shaking! #costanza
HeleninEire
@Mandalay: That shit is making me laugh my ass off. Oh poor Melanie. Oh wait WTF is her name? Her own husband got it wrong in a tweet.
Fuck you Melanie. Oh wait, WTF is your name?
Adam L Silverman
@Mandalay: KellyAnne Conway will throw everyone, and I mean everyone – her husband, her kids, the President – under the bus to save her own tuchas.
Frankensteinbeck
@Mandalay:
This was coached. It is a straight up misogyny line, by a misogynist to play to misogynists. The subtext strips Pelosi of seriousness and status as a governmental authority, instead describing her as equal to a housewife and at a level where disappointing invited guests is a top priority.
ruemara
@Mnemosyne: They can try, but Rosewood wasn’t really a race war. It was a massacre of minorities much like the massacres in America’s history. They know that. They’re about the grooming of the vulnerable for some “lone wolf” activities. What they’re looking for is like the rebellions (Tacky’s War, The Baptist Rebellion, etc.) that happened on say Jamaica that established free black Maroon communities during a time of slavery.
Mnemosyne
@FlipYrWhig:
I’m betting that every one of the guests is from a so-called “Angel Family” that had a family member die because of an illegal immigrant. ?
FlipYrWhig
@catclub: Trump thinks everyone is scared of him because he is A Big Man, so he gets what he wants in the end. That’s his only ploy. He doesn’t know what else to do. He never has.
Mandalay
@Barbara:
That is not true:
I’m not saying Upton is a good guy, but he did more than just about any Republican in Congress to try to preserve ACA measures that most Republicans wanted to eliminate.
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
Good. He was an excellent Vice President. He should rest content with that.
Martin
@chris:
I don’t disagree with this, but at the same time, this works well for normal people, but Trump isn’t normal. Narcissists aren’t people that think highly of themselves – they have a busted identity. And putting those people in this kind of a trap can work, I think people may be shocked at the lengths they will be willing to go to work out of it.
The whole point of a system of checks and balances is that we aren’t reliant on the person with the busted identity to find their way out of the trap – we have other branches of government to do that for them. The problem is that the GOP would much rather exploit his disorder than help him manage it. McConnell will be the one to break here, not Trump.
jl
@ruemara: Yes. I guess horrifying atrocities like the Tulsa riots inspire them. Chills the blood. Country has, so far, moved past that, I hope forever. Trump’s declining popularity indicates that, thankfully, very few in mood to head backwards in time.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
It will be. And it will be right next to the line that says “The POI claimed that she has a large number of viscous jackals who will vouch for her, and will confirm her presence on the Innertubez, at whatever time she says, wherever. Or whatever.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yup. The whole “special guest” thing is one of the worst aspects of the whole bloated SOTU spectacle. I hated it under Bush, I hated it under Obama, and it would be ten times worse with trump. That’s definitely a silver lining of whatever plan B The Beast has come up with.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: This really is the dumbest timeline.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
I figured it out a few years ago: when white supremacists say “race war,” what they mean is that they’re going to get to kill minorities en masse again with no repercussions. They have no concept that minorities would actually fight back or be able to do so effectively.
I think normal people think of “race war” the way you’re thinking of it (two sides fighting each other), but white supremacists really do just mean “massacring non-whites.”
retr2327
You have to wonder if Pelosi deliberately set him up with the first letter, which couched the issue in terms of security concerns. A smarter person might well have recognized that she was offering him a gentle way out, but he, of course, tried to force the issue by claiming that security would not be a problem. So that opened the door for Pelosi to slam it in his face: no, you’re not giving the SOTU address until I say so.
She is definitely experienced enough at this sort of maneuvering to have had it all planned out in advance . . .
chris
@FlipYrWhig: OLD FAKE NEWS1!!! Pre-president shitgibbon has words for all occasions and it’s hilarious.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I wonder if McConnell regrets not letting Burr (or whichever committee chair could have done it) subpoena the tax returns two years ago, and pretending it was out of his hands.
Martin
And I’ll say it again – the House Sergeant at Arms has a mace and he has it for a reason. If someone comes to my house uninvited, I think I’m in good shape hitting them with a mace if they refuse to leave.
Barbara
@Mandalay: Talk is cheap, but it’s voting that tells the real story:
https://www.wsjm.com/2018/10/08/upton-defends-vote-against-obamacare-says-health-reform-needed-but-not-likely/
chopper
@Adam L Silverman:
eh, still beats kiefer sutherland.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Frankensteinbeck: I suspect we agree that Madame Speaker shows no sign of caring what Melania Trump does or says.
Martin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He got his tax cuts, so I doubt it.
Mary G
@Barbara: I think Upton helped pass a rare bipartisan law giving cancer research more money in honor of Beau Biden after his death. Joe is a sentimental softie and it meant a lot to him. He doesn’t seem to get that Congress is very different from back in his day. He probably thinks he can charm and schmooze McConnell, but that isn’t happening.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent: Biden has been following memes in the new media and talking to people who think he should have been president thirty years ago. I hope someone close to him is smart enough and blunt enough to walk him through everything from Anita Hill to the crime bill to the war on drugs to the Iraq War to Hunter (don’t yell at me, it’s not gonna not come up because we don’t talk about it here). He’s an elder statesman and can do a hell of a lot of good in that role. I’m afraid he’ll blow it all up if he runs.
chopper
@catclub:
average recession is 13 months. course, given the fed has nowhere much to drop rates (they dropped em around 5 points during the last two ‘mild’ ones), and given that the teabaggers will blow up any attempt to spend on the fiscal side, i imagine it’s gonna be longer and worse than the average.
rikyrah
CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: Something like this:
Gelfling 545
@catclub: The Camaro cannot be discounted.
geg6
@Mandalay:
That’s hilarious. And we’re supposed to give a shit about a bit of social embarrassment for Shitler’s mail order bride? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! I really don’t care, do u?
dmsilev
President PissyPants is pissed:
It’s kind of telling that the best that a guy known for coming up with derogatory nicknames can do is …to use her first name. It’s also a weak response, just whining about how unfair things are.
danielx
If he does, it will be a first.
EriktheRed
So many attribute “weakness” to his actions (or lack thereof). Seems to me, though, that you could argue that, being a fanatic Randian, Zombie-eyed Granny Starver was gleefully cheering on all of this.
chris
@Martin: As long as one of them breaks it’s all good. Gooder anyway.
ruemara
@Mnemosyne: That is true. The inability to decimate das untermenschen as they will has really oppressed them.
MisterForkbeard
@Robert Sneddon: It’d be a physical problem – there’s not enough space in the Senate building to do that. They’d have to do it with *only* the Senators and some small amount of House members.
The constitution doesn’t (IIRC) say anything about how the SOTU has to happen, just that it does. Trump can fulfill his “duty” there by just sending a letter to Congress. If he spoke to only the Senate and sent a letter with the speech contents, he’s basically done.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@dmsilev: Maybe “blotch” is a misspelling of “bitch.”
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
Right. That’s his whole claim to fame. So who in their right mind in Trump’s orbit thought it was smart to put him in this position? Where he’s publicly revealed as not being able to make a deal?
Trump hires low quality people which hurts us, the people of the country, but it also hurts Trump! His lawyers are bad, his advisers are bad, they’re all bad hires. They don’t even serve HIM well.
Brachiator
Trump had reporters in the Oval Office as the SOTU showdown was happening. He’s scrambling to come up with a response to Pelosi.
dmsilev
@MisterForkbeard: For that matter, the Constitution doesn’t specify ‘annual’ for the SotU, just ‘whenever you feel like getting around to it, no rush really’. He could blow off the speech entirely and spend next Tuesday evening watching Fox News and it’d be the most legal and constitutional thing he’s done in the last three years.
trollhattan
@dmsilev:
“A great blotch.” Yup, good self-assessment there, Donny.
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
If your’re a loyal subordinate and you actually care about Trump you do not set it up so everyone sees that he can’t make a deal.
You set it up so that the myth of his dealmaking remains intact. They can’t even lie competently. They’re too bumbling and moronic to keep Oz behind the curtain.
Adam L Silverman
Barbara
@Mary G: I totally get it. I understand all about 21st Century Cures, though I think its impact is vastly overstated, but the fate of one politician, any politician, doesn’t matter to me as such and I shouldn’t have to worry about why Joe Biden gives the speeches he does. All I need to know is that he was willing to throw Democrats under the bus at election time for reasons that don’t really strike me as all that justified.
dmsilev
A perhaps-worrying sign: Chris Cilizza thinks Nancy Pelosi did the right thing in disinviting Trump. Has Bill Kristol weighed in yet? We need a consensus from the always-wrong caucus before declaring a verdict.
Adam L Silverman
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@TaMara (HFG): That’s my theory about Turtle; Trump was a disaster in the House, screwed Turtle out of five seats in the Senate so Turtle would be happy if Trump got replaced by someone less toxic by 2020 like Pence when the Republicans are facing a lot of serious senate races.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
I think his subordinates all buy into his myth. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t stick around. So they really are gleefully snickering like a bunch of 5th graders about how Trump is totally pwning the Democrats and is certain to win, because he always does.
dmsilev
FTNYT:
(the headline is from their homepage right now. Clicking through to the article, the head is a bit more subdued in its wording)
chris
Don’t even know what to say.
Gelfling 545
@Kent: Someone on twitter was saying that the Senate chamber is not large enough for this type of circus. Don’t know if that’s true or not but you know he’ll want a cast of thousands.
banditqueen
@dmsilev: “We’re supposed to be doing it and now Nancy Pelosi, or Nancy, as I call her, she doesn’t want to hear the truth and she doesn’t want, more importantly, for the American people to hear the truth.”
-First, her name is Nancy, so he’s figured that much out after being told NO at least twice–he hasn’t just given her nickname no matter what he thinks,
-Second, what does the King of Lies know about truth, and
-Third, his blathering on the ‘Russian Hoax’, the ‘caravans, M13 & build the wall crime will fall’, ‘greatest economy, the govt works like a fine watch believe me’ is believable only to the 27%s, Miller, and the freedom caucus–what a nasty piece of work he is
The Midnight Lurker
@Adam L Silverman: I always thought dwarf tossing was a myth! Is this a real thing? WTF?!!!
chris
Oops, in moderation for too many links/hashtags.
Jeffro
Loves me some Nancy Smash…next will be a ‘leak’ of her ‘accidentally’ ‘joking’ with her staff about how glad she is to tell him – on behalf of the American people – to go fuck himself.
Anyway, here’s hoping he tries walking up the Capitol steps and strokes out. And that’s actually the NICEST thing I’m thinking about him right now.
Very pleased at this turn of events, but it would be even more splendid to see Dems
– calling for America’s business leaders big and small to weigh in with their GOP reps as to how the trumpov shutdown and the tariffs are killing their precious profits
– calling for America’s unpaid workers to strike or sick out until they have received their full back pay
– calling for America’s taxpayers to besiege the Turtle’s offices/phone/email until they have received their full refunds
etc etc Get other parties involved and bring more pressure to bear on the folks who will eventually have to override baby trumpov’s veto. He is going to ride this plane all the way into the ground; does the GOP really want to be left with a destroyed economy? Do they really think they can keep this going through Nov 2020?
The Pale Scot
@Adam L Silverman: The first 1/2 of the first season of the show was interesting, but the mechanics of what the actual laws and rules are aren’t translatable to 40 min TV show.
Fair Economist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t think McConnell regrets anything he has done to help Trump because I think he is part of the conspiracy. He may not be in direct communication but he is part.
Gelfling 545
@Mandalay: You don’t invite guests to someone else’s house (or House). Somebody should tell Melania.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman: He can deliver it in exactly that manner, in the cold, on the steps of the Capitol. Where he will be completely wide open and vuln…er…never mind. Where he’ll be cold and look ridiculous.
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev: It’s going to be hilarious when she starts referring to him as Don and Donny.
Jeffro
Would also like to see some strong, consistent Dem messaging that re-opening the government is not some freaking “concession” on trumpov’s part. He took a hostage, he’d merely be giving the hostage back. Heck, re-opening the government isn’t even just, considering all the damage he and his party have caused by the GOP Shutdown.
catclub
@Kay:
And it is much worse than you imagine. I am reading Michael Lewis’s The Fifth Risk on the botched transition, and all the useful things the government does when not being sabotaged.
Kent
Unless I miss my guess, there will be no alternative location SOTU address. The optics would be horrible for Trump and he doesn’t do well on TelePrompTer without a live audience. All the media would be comparing his “rump” speech to the greats by Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton, etc. There is a certain standard that has been set for SOTU speeches and they are all out there on video. Dorris Kearns Goodwin and other talking heads would all be out there tut tutting about how Trump has diminished the presidency.
Adam L Silverman
@chris: He always has demonstrators in front of his office at the Capitol arrested. This is how he always handles these things.
germy
germy
@Adam L Silverman:
That’s funny, because here he is praising the Covington kids’ right to “peaceful assembly”
Adam L Silverman
@The Midnight Lurker: It was.
chopper
@dmsilev:
HAHAHA jesus that’s whiny as fuck. this is what happens when a guy like trump gets told to screw off by someone who can back that up. suddenly all this wannabe tough guy schtick just melts away.
JPL
@The Midnight Lurker: trump only appoints the best judges. Especially the ones who think tossing dwarfs is a sign of dignity because the government can’t decide what dignity is.
Gelfling 545
@retr2327: All the more effective as Trump has a 4th grade cnception of how government functions.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: The Covington kids are being repped by his senior political advisor’s crisis PR firm.
humboldtblue
@khead:
Yes, ask our local 250 or so Coast Guardsmen who have been left without paychecks and who won’t be getting any anytime soon. Locals have raised more than $10,000 so far and the fundraising for our local Coasties is ongoing.
They are extraordinarily important for us and generally just outstanding at what they do.
humboldtblue
Unless Joe Biden is in a band like Beto O’Rourke he should go back to being Obama’s folksy, funny sidekick.
chopper
@banditqueen:
it’s funny. he points out that he calls her ‘nancy’. there’s no dumb nickname like he does with everyone else.
why? cause she has his balls in a safe in her office and he knows it.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: I think Trump used the word “blotch” to bring to mind the word “bitch”, which is what he wants to call Nancy Pelosi. Which (I believe) he kind if is calling her if I am correct about the reason for his use of the word blotch.
John Fremont
@Mnemosyne: Ahh yeah, all of those Delaware corporations right in his backyard.
The Midnight Lurker
@chopper: I thought Putin had those?
Hey… maybe it could be a new game show:
WHERE IN THE WORLD ARE TRUMP’S BALLS?
Mnemosyne
@germy:
I’m assuming that a bunch of union thugs have much deeper pockets than the usual run of Mitch’s protesters.
chopper
@The Midnight Lurker:
(smashes buzzer) THEY’RE IN A BAG!
(buzzer) oh, i’m sorry no, they’re not in a bag. (leading audience in a chant) where are donald trump’s balls?!
Doug R
@Kent: Four and a half points is not a squeaker, Biden didn’t make the difference.
chris
@Adam L Silverman: Ah, so that’s why it doesn’t make the news.
Frankensteinbeck
Guys, the ‘I call her Nancy’ is not an inability to come up with a stupid nickname. He’s making a different statement, that he doesn’t respect her.
The Pale Scot
@Adam L Silverman:
The Thin Black Duke
Pelosi would have been a great President.
Tenar Arha
@Mandalay: It’s either what Adam said, and she’d toss everyone overboard to protect herself. Or perhaps, as I’ve said to friends, that she and her spouse are splitting the GOP political difference so one of them will be employable after all this.
Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.
I’ve seen a preview of Trumps’ SOTU:
https://i.imgflip.com/2rvmjt.jpg
H.E.Wolf
@ruemara:
OK! Anne Laurie has my contact info. Please assume that I’m always 3+ hours late to every thread, and feel free to reach out via the contact info, if that’s comfortable.
Bill Arnold
@banditqueen:
Your point is valid, but don’t wrap S. Miller into it. Been reading some profile pieces on him to build a better mental model (also Julia Hahn) and the first Atlantic piece in particular (Chet linked it in June 2018) convincingly indicates that he’s smart, sly/slippery/amused, keeps a tight mask on nearly all the time, and is a quite competent provocateur/operator. (His mental model of the American “left” is still a bit cartoonish IMO. Excessively arrogant, too.) (Adam has been saying (some of) this for a long while, credit due.)
Trump’s Right-Hand Troll – Stephen Miller once tormented liberals at Duke. Now the president’s speechwriter and immigration enforcer is deploying the art of provocation from the White House.
How White House advisor Stephen Miller went from pestering Hispanic students to designing Trump’s immigration policy
The Believer – How Stephen Miller went from obscure Capitol Hill staffer to Donald Trump’s warm-up act—and resident ideologue.
Elizabelle
@The Thin Black Duke:
Stick around. The year is young. Even while all this fuckery ages us prematurely.
BC in Illinois
@The Thin Black Duke:
She still might be.
Pelosi 2019
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: He’s 33 years old and as he told Coppins in that interview he believes he’s both a world class intellect and is here to educate the rest of us
Elizabelle
@BC in Illinois:
On the same wavelength!
I am down with Pelosi 2019. I think it will add 2 years to our lifespans.
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
Not disagreeing. And the arrogance is a weakness.
(I was just wondering about an un-IDed [presence] in my mental model of the DJT administration and he fits it pretty well, particularly the sly/slippery part.)
Steeplejack
@schrodingers_cat:
Madhur Jaffrey, veggie burgers, Guru Dutt, Hugh Acheson’s The Chef and the Slow Cooker, various Indian music videos.
stinger
@SFAW:
Just aim for the bottom of his tie.
What I love best is that Nancy replied the same day. I said you were disinvited, and that means you are disinvited. Boom. Clearly she has raised children. I only wish she’d thrown a “Sir” in there somewhere. Then he’d be quoting it all over the place.
opiejeanne
@FlipYrWhig: I’m waiting for him to climb into a golf cart and go screeching down the mall with his Secret Service running behind him, up to Capital Hill, to try and physically attack Nancy Smash.
You know right now he wants to punch her right now, but he’d never manage the steps in front of the building.