Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You would normally have to try pretty hard to self-incriminate this badly.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

This really is a full service blog.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

The revolution will be supervised.

“woke” is the new caravan.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

Come on, man.

If America since Jan 2025 hasn’t broken your heart, you haven’t loved her enough.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

They spent the last eight months firing professionals and replacing them with ideologues.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Monday Evening Open Thread: Burning the Coffee (Magnate)

Monday Evening Open Thread: Burning the Coffee (Magnate)

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Well, *that* made me laugh. For some reason, Howard Schultz isn’t getting a whole lot of encouragement for his vanity run, apart those with ulterior motives…

Mr. Pierce, at Esquire:

… Leave aside for the moment that the country is not exactly hungering for another inexperienced plutocrat and that, if we have any sense at all, the current president* has murdered all that Let’s-Run-Government-Like-A Business bilge forever, we are seeing the stirrings of a genuine progressive moment for the first time in over 50 years.

The idea that the times now cry out for deficit-hawkery married to MBA-worship is not a little horrifying. But it’s a quite predictable reaction to the current political moment. As you can see by the hysterical reaction to Senator Professor Warren’s proposed wealth-tax, and to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s proposal to bring back the Bolshevism of John F. Kennedy’s tax plans, the masters of the universe are running scared for the first time in a long while. This is a good thing. God knows they need the exercise.


Concurring:

Reader Interactions

292Comments

  2. 2.

    Major Major Major Major

    I feel like this is probably a sideshow? Gonna have to agree with those prognosticators above who agree with me.

    re: Harris, since I missed that thread, I’ll just note that the Intercept and Jacobin have already been pretty effective at poisoning the well among those types, so that’ll be fun; they’re very *loud* useful idiots.

  3. 3.

    rikyrah

    This muthaphucka uttered both sides. He is not serious , and should be shown the door ??
    Kay nailed his azz in the morning thread, when she wrote that he was afraid of the liberal reaction to Dolt45.

  8. 8.

    jacy

    This is the danger of all those fair-weather Republicans who make nice noises about being reasonable and not really monsters (David Jolly I AM LOOKING AT YOU). They will glom on to any shiny thing that is not a Democrat. Bothsiderism will literally be the death of us all.

    Don’t trust a Republican, ever. And think hard about trusting anybody who says they’re an “Independent.” Choose a fucking side, people. THERE ARE ONLY TWO.

  9. 9.

    waspuppet

    I think he’s doing the truly rich person’s version of the Walker Bragman (I think it was?): heads I win, tails I get a tax cut. He may not even realize it consciously.

  10. 10.

    dmsilev

    Speaking of overpriced burnt coffee, this article in Ars Technica this morning pretty much sets the bar on the subject:

    This company wants to use reentry heating to roast coffee beans
    A company called Space Roasters says it plans to use the considerable heat of reentry from space through Earth’s atmosphere to roast coffee beans. It will then sell them for the perfect cup of joe.

    In an interview with Room magazine, the founders of the company, Hatem Alkhafaji and Anders Cavallini, say space is the place to look for a next-level brew. “Coffee has been roasted the same way for centuries now, and as space science has improved many technologies, we believe it is time to revolutionize coffee roasting using space technology,” the pair told the magazine.

    How does it work? The company says it has patented a “space roasting capsule” in which heat from re-entry will be distributed around four cylinders each containing 75kg of coffee beans. Floating in microgravity, the beans will be evenly heated and roasted during the process. The capsule will then be recovered after landing with parachutes. “The entire process will last only 20 minutes but will end with a marvelous aroma as the hatch is opened,” the founders told the magazine.
    […]
    For the sake of argument, let’s assume the company can launch a 500kg capsule into a 180-km suborbital trajectory. Assuming all 300kg of beans are roasted optimally, this comes to $20,000 per kg of roasted beans. There are between 10 and 15 grams of coffee beans in a cup of coffee, so even on the lower end, just for the rocket cost, that is $200 per cup of coffee. Adding in design and development cost of the capsule (which may or may not be reusable), marketing, retrieval, processing, mark-up, and other expenses, space coffee is likely to cost $500 a cup.

    Beat that, coffee beans which pass through the digestive system of a civet cat.

  12. 12.

    trollhattan

    Campos caught Schultz ginning up his “hard-knocks” life story. Failing to land a college football scholarship has magically become escaping the horrors of New York due to a fluke sighting by a college recruiter and a scholarship to Northern Michigan.

    Why do these people feel they have to lie? Is building a bajillion-dollar corporation that people appear to like spending their money at not enough?

  13. 13.

    Immanentize

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: stop saying that shit. It is not funny, not at all snarky, and is exactly what her haters say pretending they are “joking” to move the narrative.

    Is that what you are doing? Fake joking to advance the narrative? If not, think twice before you cut.

  14. 14.

    trollhattan

    @dmsilev:
    Reminds me of the Silicon Valley juice company selling an expensive machine to squeeze juice from a bag, then somebody picks up one of the bags and says, “Hey, I can squeeze the juice out with my hands.”

    It literally can’t work because coffee roasting requires watching for the two cracks, fiddling with roasting temp and time, and adjusting for each batch of green beans. It’s never the same twice.

  19. 19.

    dmsilev

    @trollhattan: That was Juicero. And yes, reentry-heat coffee roasting is quite possibly the stupidest idea to come out of the tech industry since the invention of blockchain.

  23. 23.

    B.B.A.

    I’m glad that we are all already agreed that Harris is the nominee. When can we start bashing the other D candidates for not dropping out of the race and being Russian/Trumpist (but I repeat myself) moles?

    (Is this snark? I don’t know anymore.)

  28. 28.

    Immanentize

    @B.B.A.: Who said that about Harris? Really! Some like her. Some like Warren. Some are holding fire. So, what are you selling, exactly? T’aint truth.

    So the fact that you are picking on Harris instead of Warren or Beto or Gillibrand (hmmm, what do they have in comments?) Makes me concerned about your perspective.

    So, who do you favor?!

  31. 31.

    B.B.A.

    @Immanentize: I will walk 15 miles in the snow, uphill both ways, to vote for whoever the Democratic party nominates, for every office, in every election, until I shuffle off this mortal coil or white men are stripped of the vote (as we so rightly deserve). Happy?

  33. 33.

    Immanentize

    @B.B.A.:
    I am unhappy.

    So, I ask again, without criticizing others, who do you favor now?

    Or is your only thing, I am righteous, y’all suck?

    ETA Do you even live where it snows?

  34. 34.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Connie Schultz
    @ConnieSchultz

    Has Sherrod Brown actually announced yet? I lose track….

  35. 35.

    Gin & Tonic

    So while we are 6500 miles from home we get word that our cat, who was staying with a trusted relative, is apparently terminal. Trying to figure out options here at the ass end of nowhere, using what seems like a third-world net connection, is challenging at best. It looks like she’ll have to be put down, which is distressing but maybe not surprising, as she is almost 17. It certainly won’t help the mood of this trip.

    Such is life.

  37. 37.

    Ohio Mom

    @trollhattan: The dumbest part of Schlutz’s college story is that when he was 18, in 1971 (born 1953), New York’s City University system was still FREE.

    There was no tuition until 1976. You had to pass an entrance exam and pay some fees and buy books, but really, NO TUITION.

  38. 38.

    David Evans

    @dmsilev: Just in case anyone is in any doubt, by the time the temperature has reached coffee-roasting level the capsule and its contents will no longer be in microgravity.

  50. 50.

    RedDirtGirl

    @Major Major Major Major: Hello there. I’ve been bouncing in and out of threads and don’t know if you’ve seen my suggestion about a New York City Council of Jackals sometime this winter. Been wanting to welcome you to the area since you first mentioned the possibility ages ago.

  53. 53.

    Immanentize

    @B.B.A.: Good! Support her, love her! But why try to elevate her by tearing down others?

    Frankly, that is a very male thing to do. In my work experience, women tend to elevate by describing how beautiful the whole mountain range is. Especially the one they assembled. Pelosi does this even with dissenters.

    Men are most adept at describing how they are the highest mountain in the range, which usually requires them to try and tear down any and all nearby mountains. Bernie is a master at this. He doesn’t ever argue why you should vote for him — he argues why his opponents suck.

    So, I am trying to support my candidate (i have none yet) without trying to tear down any other candidate.

    Except Biden and Bernie. Fuck them.?

  61. 61.

    JPL

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: My son and DIL are on baby watch and since Atlanta is in shut down mode in case of snow, I’ve had Nona the Maltese since Saturday. Last time she was here a hawk swooped down and since she’s only six pounds, it could have been a good catch except I was next to her. It’s stressful for the caretakers also.

    It’s a horrible situation for everyone.

  62. 62.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    Schultz can’t win Washington, the remedy for these billionaires is to TAX THE %$#@’ OUT OF THEM. Where’s my Che Guevara beret.

  64. 64.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @JPL:

    Hasn’t it been almost precisely five years since Snowmageddon? I have rather vivid memories that you were stuck on I-85 for many, many hours during that weather catastrophe. Hope things go much better tomorrow for you, your son and DIL so the new baby can be welcomed safely and warmly.

  66. 66.

    trollhattan

    @Baud:
    We checked our old gal, Gracie, into a wonderful doggy daycare/boarding place for one trip and they took good care of and loved her. She was too old to be left at the house with 3x/day check-ins like we had before.

    A day into the next trip they called and said she wasn’t doing well so they had taken her to the vet hospital. Those folks were able to make her stable and we finished the trip without an emergency trip home while racking up god knows how much per day on 24/7 hospital care.

    Kids.

  69. 69.

    Mary G

    @Gin & Tonic: So sorry. That is a big blow. In hopes you won’t feel guilty if you can’t be there. You are loved by your beloved cat either way. That said, not having an opportunity to say goodbye would be crushing.

  70. 70.

    The Midnight Lurker

    Let me get this straight, the guy who turned coffee shops into the DMV for unemployed caffeine addicts, thinks he’s qualified to run the country? Seriously?

    Start adding up all the times Howard Schultz says, “…both sides!”, between now and when he drops out of the race.

    I got a pool goin’.

  71. 71.

    Brachiator

    Anybody understand more about what is happening in Australia and adjacent territories?

    From Gizmodo

    Tasmania Is Burning Up and Things Could Get Worse This Week

    Australia’s blistering heat wave began in December and has only intensified since then. So far the country has had record runs of hot days and its hottest night ever recorded. Now, catastrophic bush fires have turned the Tasmanian sky red and conditions are expected to become more calamitous later this week.

    The Tasmania Fire Service has been battling dozens of blazes across the state over the weekend and into the start of the week. The largest fire is burning near Lake Echo and nearing 100,000 acres in size. Numerous other fires and challenging conditions have stretched the fire agency thin.

    “The fire danger rating exceeded forecast conditions today, with some areas reaching ‘severe,’” the agency wrote in a press release on Monday.

    The southern half of the state has been particularly hard-hit where fires have burned parts of Southwest National Park that’s listed as a World Heritage Area by UNESCO. Fire have also crept into local towns, and there are unconfirmed reports that structures have been lost to the flames according to the Australian.

  72. 72.

    MomSense

    I have to figure out what to do about my friend’s cat. My friend died early yesterday morning and leaves behind a very small, extremely shy kitty. My friend’s sister wants to call the humane society but I don’t think Grace will do well finding a forever home at a shelter because she is so shy.

  75. 75.

    JPL

    haha During an event someone shouted out that Schultz was an egotistical something who just wanted to help trump according to CNN. haha

    @SiubhanDuinne: They should be fine. He’s less than two miles from Northside and I doubt we will have much accumulation. They have four wheel drive so as long as the roads are open they are fine. The only problem is that I won’t be there, but they don’t need me. Baby boy won’t remember.

  77. 77.

    dexwood

    Most likely been said. Coming in late, leaving in minutes… fuck this guy. When I first read a one liner at some news site that HS was going to announce, I thought, who the fuck is that? Investigated, saw Starbucks, thought oh… moved on.

  82. 82.

    Salty Sam

    @David Evans:

    @dmsilev: Just in case anyone is in any doubt, by the time the temperature has reached coffee-roasting level the capsule and its contents will no longer be in zero gravity.

    Even if they stayed in micro-gravity the whole time, this is still pathetically stupid. As someone posted above, there are two “crack” stages in coffee roasting, that require constant monitoring of temperature and airflow over the roasting beans.

    I don’t smell coffee roasting, I smell somebody trying a pitch to a Silicon Valley venture capital firm…

    Salty Sam, Jack of All Trades, Master of None, Former Coffee Roaster

  89. 89.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @JPL:

    I won’t be there, but they don’t need me. Baby boy won’t remember.

    True, he won’t — and I guess, technically, you aren’t needed — but I expect you’d like to be there, if not for the actual birth then as soon as possible after. Will be thinking about all of you. Please keep the jackals up to date!

  90. 90.

    Fair Economist

    @Immanentize: Snarky mockery of what is coming out of the wingnut wulitzer and the troll farms is an old tradition here. Also, that’s not comparable because the accusation is of a felony. A comparable comment on immigrants might be “immigrants play too much ranchero music.”

  91. 91.

    Steve in the ATL

    @JPL: forecast is showing high 30’s when the snow is supposed to hit, so…accumulation highly unlikely.

    @SiubhanDuinne: sadly, I was out of town and missed the whole ice storm. Quel dommage!

  92. 92.

    oldster

    I wrote to Starbucks customer service today, and told them that I am boycotting all Starbucks until Schultz drops this campaign.

    I told them that every vote for Schultz is a vote for Trump, and every dollar he spends is a dollar for Trump.

    So if he wants to help Trump get elected, he will have to do it without my money.

    Customer service wrote back with the normal mealy-mouthed nonsense.

    But somewhere in Corporate they tallied another “boycott” vote, and with enough of them Schultz will get the message.

  93. 93.

    Immanentize

    @MomSense:
    Ooof. I am off to a friend’s funeral in Florida on Friday. I know, I know. Death is surreal in your teens, unimaginable in your twenties, tragedy in your thirties and forties …

    And now what? To be expected? I hate death with death.

  96. 96.

    mad citizen

    Sorry to hear about your friend and hopefully a home will be found for the shy feline. One of our two littermate sisters was the runt, always around 5 pounds, and loved being outside and otherwise shy inside as far as keeping her distance from my wife and favoring me. She looked like a kitten most of her 17.5 years. She left us two years ago right around now–late Jan.

  102. 102.

    Immanentize

    @Fair Economist:
    Well if tradition! Well, OK!.

    Mexicans have calves like cantalopes! /s/

    That’s ok then? No felony! It is just mocking right wing talking points.
    So, cool?

    ETA. Snarky mockery is different — vastly different — than repetiton with an /s/ tag. The first requires effort — brain connected to finger(s). The second does not.

  103. 103.

    mad citizen

    I’ve never drank coffee–more of a covfefe man–but my wife is pretty big into it and worked as a barista at a local coffee place that did their own roasting. Then she worked at a couple Starbucks for a year or so. She always talks about how Starbucks lost it when they went to the automatic machines rather than the true espresso machines. She noticed the original Starbucks on the 60 minutes piece was doing it the right way. That’s the thing, Schultz is hypocritical–if that’s the way it’s supposed to be done, it should be that way in all the Starbucks.

  104. 104.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Immanentize: Incidentally, there is a wonderful exhibit of Turner watercolors, curated by the Tate, that is in Buenos Aires until mid-February. But it travels to North America, and will be at the Mystic Seaport Museum starting in October. For the New Englanders, that’s closer than the Tate. Highly recommended.

  107. 107.

    Baud

    @JanieM:

    In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate, yet equally important, groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.

  110. 110.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I’m hoping that both your dogs are still with you; I have been worried since your comment weeks and weeks ago asking us to have a good thought for your girl.

  111. 111.

    zhena gogolia

    @Immanentize:

    But I thought you were a little harsh with Goku. He’s kind of fragile and always thinks people are mad at him even when they’re not — maybe go easy on him?

  114. 114.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic:
    I love Turner. And I love the Tate. I saw the most amazing exhibition of Gerhard Richter at the Tate Modern (including small Polaroids Richter had taken and smeared at 5K a pop) But London is so freaky expensive.

    Thank you — I will wait til it travels.

  116. 116.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: Are you thinking about maybe thinking that you might almost be ready to think about a new kitty for you and Immp?

    edit: You are Boston and MomSense is Maine, so that should be doable if…

  121. 121.

    Steve in the ATL

    @JanieM: eh, attorneys general aren’t really prosecutors or pseudo cops. They deal with lots of civil issues. I once tried a case with Mike Bowers (of Bowers v. Hardwick infamy), and it was about thinning a deer herd (we won!).

  127. 127.

    WaterGirl

    @zhena gogolia: Imm is making an excellent point, though. Just repeating their talking points is not helpful, even with a snark tag. Not helpful, and not even clever. 0 for 2.

  129. 129.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I was afraid of that, but i didn’t want to ask. Heartbreaking. Sending big hugs even though I am not sure you are a hugger

    edit: Time for your boy to have a new companion?

  131. 131.

    Immanentize

    @zhena gogolia:
    Fair enough. I will. I apologize for the harsh.

    But repetition of right wing talking points sets my teeth on edge. Every day, the news includes a full recitation of the right wing perspective. With quotes! Then a rational mealy response. Ugh.

    The repetition of the opponents perspective is never progressive.

  132. 132.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Immanentize:

    Snarky mockery is different — vastly different — than repetiton with an /s/ tag. The first requires effort — brain connected to finger(s). The second does not.

    Perhaps it would be a better use of everyone’s time to roll your eyes and ignore it, since the latter happens a lot, and not just around here.

    ETA re: your comment just above, i was just grumpy that you exploded; a “?? do we really have to repeat their talking points” would suffice

  134. 134.

    WaterGirl

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: He knows you were being sarcastic. He is telling you that it’s not helpful to repeat their talking points, even with a snark tag. It’s not useful and it’s not clever or humorous; that’s what he is telling you. He understood your intention but he is asking you to stop doing that.

  136. 136.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @WaterGirl:
    I wasn’t just repeating them. I was paraphrasing them in an intentionally abbreviated, shortened form to highlight how silly and ridiculous they are.

  140. 140.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Three weeks? Hell, I may just skip town to do that. I’m a little burnt out. I wish it were six weeks and the Immp and I would skeddadle there for his break.

  141. 141.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @WaterGirl: I have to disagree. Ridiculing their talking points is the surest way to shoot them down.

    Sarcasm. It beats killing people.

  142. 142.

    HeleninEire

    @RedDirtGirl: Sorry if this is a repost. My phone crashed as I answered. Yes RDG, I am back as of yesterday. Back in Forest Hills. Would love to see a meetup.

  144. 144.

    Chris T.

    @Gin & Tonic: That’s the worst part of being a pet parent: they just don’t live that long….

    Though, 17 is a ripe old age for a kitty. I lost some at 12 to 13, one at 17, some at indeterminate “old” age (because we had no idea how old they were when adopted), none probably much past 17.

  146. 146.

    Fair Economist

    @WaterGirl: Since when are BJ comments supposed to be helpful, anyway? /s
    But I note Goku repeated a weak accusation and a stupid accusation, not ones where it actually takes a little research to disprove, like “let the banks off” or “pro death penalty” never mind ones where she had no good choice like “why didn’t she accuse OC DA Rackauckas of being corrupt” (answer: because she couldn’t effectively invalidate every prosecution from a 3 million population county).

  149. 149.

    Dev Null

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people, all of the time.

    I got your sarcasm, nor did I find it irritating…

    … which should give you pause.

  155. 155.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Yeah I had to make that choice once, also. It’s hard.

    It was the worst when I lost my boy. Not only did I lose him, but i had not been without a dog since I was 21, and a house without a dog just felt wrong. It’s so hard to lose them, but the years of love and joy are worth it.

  156. 156.

    Fair Economist

    @Major Major Major Major: I have to disagree. Mocking somebody as “oh, you won’t vote for Harris because she’s a cop” is easier than trying to dissect some complex allegation about some action she did as DA or AG in the past. Particularly since the accuser can “Gish Gallop” and just throw up one accusation after another faster than you can disprove them.

  157. 157.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @Gin & Tonic: That’s awful – especially as you’re far away. They leave such big paw prints on our hearts.

  159. 159.

    WaterGirl

    @OzarkHillbilly: I would agree if he had been clever or had ridiculed them, but he didn’t. He pretty much repeated their talking point verbatim. That’s what I don’t like.

    I cannot, however, disagree that sarcasm beats killing people. Definitely a true statement.

  162. 162.

    WaterGirl

    @Fair Economist: I could swear that my BJ rulebook says BJ comments are supposed to be helpful, but i am not finding that at the moment as I flip through the book.

  163. 163.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud:

    It’s taken us a year now to be able to think and talk about our kitties with a smile (they went within a week of each other last Jan.). But the pain does ease after a while.

  164. 164.

    Immanentize

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
    I know you were trying to joke about it. And I apologize for reacting to what you did in my fashion. But please understand, just saying things that attack others, repeating or paraphrasing without more, is a tactic for emphasizing a position, not criticizing it.

    So, the Russians in 2016 would send out tweets/posts that repeated right wing talking points without critique. They sent those to right wing and left wing folks. The goal was to reinforce the talking point both through acceptance and opposition. If I post, “All lives matter, not just Black lives /s/” what did I do? It is a simple part of Overton window advocacy.

    I restarted the right wing talking point about Black Lives Matter. I again insinuated the opposite view. I did not critique it or offer an oposing view, I just suggested (weakly) that I disagreed. That is one of the most powerful tools of propoganda — the repetition with ineffective critique that reinforces the messages. You did that, albeit unwittingly, I’m sure. But an “/s/” tag does not alter the fact that you took some time to simply retype a harsh, maybe racist, critique of a rising female person of color without additional comment other than a signifier that you disapproved.

    And I am not going to let that stuff fly by like I let it fly by me against Hillary in 2016. Can’t afford the after effects.

  167. 167.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @MomSense: I’m so sorry for your loss. Is this your friend who was ready to go? It’s still such a blow when they die.
    I wish I could take the shy kitty, but I can’t.

    PS Pls check your email when things settle down.

  176. 176.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Major Major Major Major:
    True. I admit I wasn’t really thinking too hard about it. My thought process went like this: “Ha, wouldn’t it be funny to mock these really dumb talking points? They’re so self-evidently stupid, I don’t need to do anything.” Automatic reductio ad absurdum. Then I forgot all about it until a short while ago, once I checked in.

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I got an idea for a short story involving the sinking of the Titanic. I’ve always been really fascinated with the ship and the tragic way it sank; over 1500 people died . Everybody focuses on the people who froze to death in the water, but not the people still trapped in the belly of the ship as it plunged to the seafloor, AFIK. I was thinking it could begin during the last few minutes before the ship snapped in two. The character(s) would be trapped in the deep stern section, in an area where a Diving Bell effect could take place, where an air pocket would form. They would have at most a minute before they fell unconscious due to the rapid pressurization and beginning of the diesel effect (the air temperature would quickly rise hundreds of degrees within the air pocket), once the stern sank to a depth of a few hundred feet below the surface, but not before their ear drums burst. I’ve never seen this described in prose, so I think it would a good challenge.

  177. 177.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @Immanentize: @JanieM: We’re both well aware of attorney jobs. That does’t make the comment appropriate.

    @Steve in the ATL: Thanks for pointing that distinction out. I have some experience with it, though I never got to try a deer herd case.

  178. 178.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I’m crying for all of us who lose our beloved pets, our once-in-a-lifetime dogs, our kitty soulmates, our crazy little boys and our sweet girls.

  179. 179.

    Doug R

    @Immanentize:

    Y’know they got the Teflon Don, John Gotti, in part by planting mics in walls near funeral homes.

    How hard would it be to get a listening warrant on someone out on bail for a felony?

  180. 180.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: Imm, not sure if you missed my earlier comment or if you are studiously avoiding it. I was wondering if you might be halfway tempted to take the tiny kitty. She sounds adorable.

  181. 181.

    Immanentize

    @Baud:
    And I am sad for your kids and concern. Two cats — brother and sister — grew old and then the boy went and the girl stayed for a while. It was so hard. But I loved them both, and hard. As I am certain you do.

  182. 182.

    WereBear

    Immanentize: Momsense, I’m so sorry about your friend. I’ll be up for a while, if Immanentize has a question of his own. See if you can put up a pet bleg as suggested further down the thread, and a local shelter can put her on Petfinder even if she isn’t in the shelter.

    She is also mourning your friend. Which might make her even shyer. I find relatives who are rithless with the passed on oersoj’s good friend to be… annoying.

    I dropped by to let Jacy know my heart goes out to her since I missed her special thread. The challenges just don’t stop lately.

    Me, I’m in the throes of a bad autoimmune flare a my doctor retired a fewweeks ago and the securitupy won’t let me into the insurance website to find a new one. And my mother is very sick and I’m too sick to travel.

    Sorry about Gin and Tonic’s cat, too.

    Short version is I will be up for a while. So much suck lately.

  186. 186.

    Immanentize

    @WaterGirl: more than halfway.

    Here is the issue:. We have a six year old male. I am not exaggerating one bit when I say our cat kept us going through the tragedy. He was the most important stable thing in the house by far. The Immp and I have talked about cat 2. Immp is leaving for college in September, so it will just be Toast and me and he probably would be happier with a friend. But that’s why I need Wearbear. Can I make this work? Because nothing is worth upsetting Toast after he pretty much kept us from folding.

  187. 187.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    So sorry to read of your loss, Baud.

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Sorry you’re having to deal with this from such a distance.

    There’s an awful lot of sadness in this thread.

  188. 188.

    Immanentize

    @WereBear:
    Looking for your opinion… Could I integrate little kitty in a current all-boy household in which our cat is the Buddha we require for our sanity?

  189. 189.

    Mary G

    @Immanentize: Out least out here, some rescues will have foster parents bring prospective adoptees for visits to see how they get on. You could audition, so to speak, and if Toast is against it, no harm done beyond the temporarily ruffled fur. I know from experience that WereBear is in favor of three as the appropriate number of cats in a household.

    ETA: Sorry, hadn’t read the latest comments yet and did not realize WereBear is right here.

  192. 192.

    JP MacGuffin

    @Immanentize:

    Beto does not belong in the same conversation as Warren, Harris, and Gillibrand. He generated lots of buzz but he lost his fucking race to one of the most hated Republicans in the country. I don’t care how damn close he finished he’s still a fucking loser. Let him run against big John Cornyn or else STFU.

  193. 193.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @WereBear: I wish I could do something for you. I’m barely managing a flare and my docs didn’t retire. You’re in my thoughts.

  194. 194.

    JPL

    I’m probably not alone in saying that I love this site because of the expressions of joy and sadness that people and pets bring us. That’s a good thing.

  195. 195.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: I get it. He is your rock, and you don’t want to upset the applecart. Your applecart will be upset come September anyway.

    Take a chance, but be smart about it, which it sounds like you are doing. Awaiting wise words from WereBear.

  196. 196.

    Immanentize

    @WereBear:
    I know advice might not be the thing now, but can your retiring div make a referral? Of course here in Boston that’s easy. Elsewhere, not. Fingers and toes crossed….

  197. 197.

    Gravenstone

    @SiubhanDuinne: I believe he’s on a national “issues” tour and is doing the traditional exploratory committee, but has not formally announced. Only firm response has been that he and Connie have agreed that she would support him running if the circumstances warranted.

  199. 199.

    Elizabelle

    @MomSense: My condolences on your friend. You did right by her.

    Intriguing that maybe Immanentize will take Grace. If not, I am sure we/she can find a home. Poor little kitteh. Her world is upside too, right now.

  200. 200.

    jk

    @Immanentize:

    Beto does not belong in the same conversation as Warren, Harris, or Gillibrand. He generated huge buzz but he still lost his fucking Senate race. He does not deserve consideration for President or Vice President.

  203. 203.

    WereBear

    @Immanentize: A great idea. Does Toast have any history with other animals, new arrivals in house, etc?

    If shy cat of Momsense’s friend was onky comoanion to her, she probably would do best with soneone who wants to devote thrmselves to any Only Cat, as before. But this makes her perfect for people who want that. Shy ones often roll that way.

  205. 205.

    WaterGirl

    @Elizabelle: Did you see that jacy has Badger (Betty Crackjer’s pup) as one of her pet portraits on her site. She captured the Badger look perfectly! I will say once again, I heart Badger.

  206. 206.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud: I am so sorry your girl dog has left.

    Did you tell us what breed of dogs they are? Dogs are the best.

    @ Gin and Tonic: sorry to hear your cat is in poor health too. Pets.

  207. 207.

    sukabi

    @dmsilev: that sounds like ANOTHER reason the wealthy should be taxed at 70%+.

    Or these guys have figured out the very rich are suckers.

  208. 208.

    jl

    Not a Larry Sabato fan, but he had a tweet along the lines of ‘If Schultz had thought seriously about running for president, he would have given up by now. I”ve had undergrads who could make a better case for being president.”

    Not sure where I saw it. Maybe on this here very lefty almost top 10,000 blog?

  211. 211.

    Keith P.

    @jk:

    “Deserve’s got nothing to do with it”

    – Chair-talker….and probably Hillary at some point, too.

  212. 212.

    Ken

    @trollhattan:

    It literally can’t work because coffee roasting requires watching for the two cracks, fiddling with roasting temp and time, and adjusting for each batch of green beans.

    Didn’t we just have a long thread about how Starbucks just shovels everything into the roaster for two hours on gas mark 8?

  215. 215.

    Amir Khalid

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
    If you’re replying to a criticism with, “No, I was really doing such-and-such, not what you were suggesting”, you’re putting up a defence: setting up to argue that you did not in fact do the thing criticised. You’re on that river in Egypt. It would really serve you better just to take Watergirl’s advice to heart.

  218. 218.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Of course! That’s the hardest part and takes lots of trial and error. I’d also need to look and more fully understand the science of what would happen, both to the materials that were used at the time, and to people physiologically under such conditions. I know the broad strokes, but if you want to get something just right, you gotta do your homework.

  219. 219.

    Elizabelle

    @Immanentize: It strikes me that you could rehome Grace if she and Toast do not get along.

    But they have to give it the earnest college try.

    ETA: And does not sound like Grace is going to come in expecting to be Alpha Female.

  221. 221.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Amir Khalid:
    I later admitted I was wrong, especially after Imm’s comment at 163. I was thoughtless and I believed, at the time at least, that I wasn’t doing any harm.

  223. 223.

    Immanentize

    @WaterGirl:
    That, my friend, was an excellent edit.

    And now, I really must sleep! I will hit the morning thread to check in with MomSense. It’s a hard choice…. After what Wearbear said, maybe not perfect but worth trying? I just don’t want to make two cats miserable.

    ETA , it was bound to happen, autocorrect for MomSense is Nonsense

  224. 224.

    WereBear

    @Mary G: You are correct, Mary G, I love to hear from people passing on my advice!

    From the description of Grace, the shy kitty, I worry she might not handle a situation which is not One-to-One, Most such cats I outplaced to seniors, the health challenged, or others we spent a lot of time alone and had plenty of love to pour on a shy cat, and recieve devotion in return.

  225. 225.

    Fair Economist

    @RedDirtGirl: I will take a look at it. It is always a lot of work to debunk the crap though. Plus I am sure in 20 years she has made a mistake or two. How could anybody be expected to NEVER make a mistake?

  227. 227.

    Mary G

    @MomSense: I am so sorry about your loss of your friend and that she was angry with you for siccing the authorities on her, but you did the right thing. I shudder to think of tiny shy Grace alone in the house with her dead mistress. If there is any financial help you need to get her situated, please let us know.

  228. 228.

    ljdramone

    @dmsilev: Ars Technica said:

    Floating in microgravity, the beans will be evenly heated and roasted during the process.

    I call shenanigans!

    During reentry the coffee bean capsule will be decelerating (turning kinetic energy into heat, courtesy of the upper atmosphere). The beans will be in a clump at the forward end of the capsule and won’t heat evenly.

  229. 229.

    jk

    @WaterGirl: @Keith P.:

    Beto O’Rourke is a bright shiny nothingburger. It’s beyond laughable that anyone would consider him for President when Warren, Harris, and Gillibrand are head and shoulders more qualified.

  233. 233.

    WereBear

    @Immanentize: perhaps the two of you will bond even closer, then ?

    Talk to him about it. Let the Immp talk to him about leaving, and how he will return. Cats unsterstand a lot from our body language and voice tones, so feel free to express yourself.

    And if you want a goofy little kitten for you both to play with, tell him so. They are usually the least likely to trip territory defensiveness.

    You have time to prepare him for departure and possible arrival.

  234. 234.

    Gravenstone

    @ljdramone:

    The beans will be in a clump at the forward end of the capsule and won’t heat evenly.

    And once again, physics spoils everything. //

  235. 235.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: I have a good feeling about it, for what it’s worth. As Elizabelle said, if you give it the old college try and it just doesn’t work, then maybe your rock will be more open to the next one.

    I didn’t want to upset the applecart after I lost one of my pups — things were going great with the two kitties and the remaining pup, so I waited. And waited. It was a terrible thing then when my remaining pup died.

    I say go for it!

    edit: And what a blessing it would be for MomSense, and for Grace.

  236. 236.

    Mary G

    @Brachiator: Climate change? It cracks me up, because that area is where Peter Thiel and a lot of the .0001% were planning to hide from the coming apocalypse.

  239. 239.

    Amir Khalid

    @jk:
    From the coverage, it did not seem to me that Beto O’Rourke was lacking in substance or charisma as a candidate, and that he performed as well as he did in Texas against Ted Cruz suggests he is not a politician to be easily written off.

  240. 240.

    Mary G

    @WereBear: I am sorry you are facing a flareup without your doctor. Explaining it all to even the best new doctor is exhausting and not being able to even start the process must be a nightmare. I almost hesitate to talk about it lest I jinx myself, but my RA has been quiescent for two years now and I’ve been able to go off several of the worst medications. Of course, I had horrible respiratory problems to replace it, but after so many decades a long remission is like a miracle.

  241. 241.

    Spanky

    It’ll be Kamala, folks. It’s over. Listen to what a certain WaPo Opinion writer ends his column with:

    Like Warren, Harris will be underestimated by Team Trump at its own peril. We are, of course, in the opening steps of a grueling, nonstop, two-year battle. Perhaps Harris will prove far more adept at beginning a presidential campaign than actually running one. And Warren may prove her critics correct by proving she lacks the personal touch to navigate the ugly give-and-take of modern presidential politics.

    But I doubt it.

    There are other interesting candidates in the race. But with Harris’s and Warren’s entrance into the pitched battle to crush Trumpism and its toxic legacy, Democratic primary voters may at last have reason to believe that their eventual nominee can take on Trump, win back the White House for Democrats, and bring a sense of stability and sanity back to Washington for all Americans.

    More tests and more candidates are coming soon enough. But a party that produced a weakened nominee in 2016 has begun the 2020 cycle on a path that looks certain to produce a tougher political challenger than Trump has ever faced before.

    That opinion writer? Joe Scarborough!

    I just don’t know what to think now. /s

  243. 243.

    WereBear

    @Mary G: I am so hapoy for you!

    Really, the new doc is the least of my worries right now. I have been getting good results from a new treatment regimen i started as an extra safety measure, and it was going well until overwork (in my condition) messed me up again. But I am longterm optimistic on that score, and wish the same for you.

  244. 244.

    Spanky

    Oh yeah, regarding Trump’s dinner at the hotel tonight …

    The odds may be very slim that the Feds made Roger see the wisdom of wearing a wire, but those odds are not zero.

    And it would be delicious.

  247. 247.

    satby

    @Gin & Tonic: I got the same news about my oldest cat while in Mexico. It’s what it is when you have old ones. If he’s not suffering right now maybe you’ll get some time together when you get home. If not, know that he knew you loved him. It’s courageous if you decide to spare him more pain in spite of how much you wanted to wait to see him again.

  249. 249.

    jacy

    @Elizabelle:

    Thanks for the boost. And thanks so much to everyone for everything. I did more art sales yesterday than I did all last year! But I am having a bad brain day and going to bed — today was a little too much of several things.

  251. 251.

    burnspbesq

    @JP MacGuffin:

    I don’t care how damn close he finished he’s still a fucking loser.

    Not a wise thing to think, but whatever.

    Stick around for 2020. We’re going to beat John Carter. The blue virus infesting Williamson County is going to spread into Bell, and he’ll be toast, yet another native driven mad by Austin suburban sprawl.

  252. 252.

    Jay

    @Amir Khalid:

    There’s a lot of Beto bashing for running as a Texan in Texas and for not having legislative experience.

    I’m getting the feeling that pre-emptive narrative setting is being done and people are reacting to it.

    Dissing and bagging on Democrats who havn’t declared seems to be a thing.

    So are rando’s speculating about Hillary 2020.

    But hey, clickbait sells, and is addictive as crack and oxy.

  253. 253.

    burnspbesq

    That was the polite version. The truth is that this is fucking Texas, and you are an enchilada short of a combo plate if you think that about Beto.

  254. 254.

    Quinerly

    @Adam L Silverman: There was an update on Feinberg’s tweet when you click on it:
    UPDATE: Three people who’d know have reached out to tell me Stone is at home in Florida. While the folks who initially told me he was in DC have generally been reliable, they wouldn’t know as much as the ones who say he’s not.

  255. 255.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @Mary G: That’s great news. After decades! The respiratory thing is of course not good, but remission I’l drink a toast to.

  258. 258.

    Jay

    @debbie:

    I don’t think he’s thinking.

    I think he’s reacting or pushing a narrative that’s not an “authentic” product.

    There seems to be a lot of FyreFest-ing going on about Democratic Party New Generation winners and potentials.

  259. 259.

    satby

    @Immanentize: I say take Grace, and things will usually work out. Toast will adapt and probably come to enjoy having a buddy cat, and the little shy Grace may also adapt and develop a bit of confidence when she’s in a new environment where people can help her feel safe.

  260. 260.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    @burnspbesq: I wouldn’t have been so polite in explaining the truth. But I’m not having a good month, which could be making me impatient with “jokes” and fools, and surly.

  263. 263.

    Plato

    Is this still true?

    Months ago, thinking that the GOP would pick up seats in the House, Trump approved $129M in funding to hire staff in the House of Rep. He thought the funds could be used to investigate Clinton.
    Democrats won and now Pelosi has this money to hire lawyers to investigate Trump!!

    — Brian Krassenstein (@krassenstein) January 29, 2019

  265. 265.

    Jay

    @Plato:

    Yup, before the shutdown Nancy Smash/Orange Crush’s started the process with lists of jobs they were looking to fill,

    The ReThugs are however, leaving their seats vacant on the House Intelligence Commitee vacant to stall any work.

  266. 266.

    jl

    Harris’ townhall is pretty impressive so far, at least showing her political skills.
    I liked the strong stand for Medicare for all, which is a sound economic approach, and very good politics. As I’ve typed in comments before, there are a dozen good systems the US could adopt or adapt, and Medicare for all is as good as any. But mainly, I think very strong clear stands on specific and sound policy proposals is necessary for electoral success in this political climate.

    On her supposed ‘nonprogressive’ record as CA AG, Tapper lobbed her a softball, but she answered it well.
    I like how she can tweak and sass back at Tapper’s corporate news actor hack act, and drop some border security science on his ignorant shallow ass. A little Jerry and Willie Brown sass for self-important pompous dweebs is a good thing.

    Not sure possible see what she ‘really’ thinks about policy in one townhall, but I like a lot of what I see so far.

    Now talking about student debt. I’m interested whether Tapper can ask a good question or not (so far, IMHO, not)

    Edit: Harris’ answer to student debt problem didn’t have enough clearly articulated policy. But she just flat said she supports a green new deal, so that makes up for other vague policy statements.

  267. 267.

    Jay

    BTdubs, NoMoreMisterNice blog has a post up on pundit stupidity.

    Apparently Hewitt and Zito think Mr. Starbucks can peel off 25% of the Democratic Party vote, and 25% of the ReThug vote

    Which equals 50% of all the votes so he wins.

  268. 268.

    Fair Economist

    @Jay: Leaving seats vacant in the intelligence committee just to prevent it from working shows how deep the rot in the Republican party is. Both the previous and current Republican House leaders are actively trying to cover up hostile foreign activity, and their caucuses don’t call them on it. They are all compromised.

    I hope the committee can agree to suspend the rules by unanimous agreement or some such.

  270. 270.

    sdhays

    @jk: I think Beto is an impressive politician and I think we can expect great things from him, especially if Texas gives him a chance to represent them on a state-wide level. But the desire to push him into the Presidential race has always seemed pretty weird to me. We need people like Beto focusing on Texas, just like we need amazing people like Stacy Abrams focusing on Georgia. We have a lot of good Presidential options this year; we don’t need to trick people who aren’t really ready to jump into the race too.

  274. 274.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @Ken: hell, roasting the coffee beans by microwave strikes me as a better procedure than that. And 1) I can’t even drink coffee 2) yes there are patents on roasting coffee beans by microwave.

  276. 276.

    jl

    CNN is throwing the townhall. Just google CNN Harris townhall, a couple of live connection options pop up.

  277. 277.

    JaySinWA

    @JaySinWA: Of course these guys are just gonna roast beans in some normal way and sell them as space roast for an extreme markup to the rich and gullible.

  278. 278.

    Jay

    @plato:

    25% of one, and 25% of the other, given a 50/50 split of all the votes, doesn’t equal 50% of the votes, instead 25%.

    They can’t even do basic math yet people pay them/tune in to watch them opine.

  280. 280.

    Mnemosyne

    @Immanentize:

    Possibly too late to catch you, but IMO it may be worth giving Grace a shot. A boy/girl pair of kitties usually turns out reasonably well if you take the introductions VERY slow. Worst case scenario, if you do have to re-home Grace, I suspect there will be a lot more options in your area than in MomSense’s.

  282. 282.

    Jay

    @JaySinWA:

    Yup.

    Probably just relable the cheapest already roasted bulk beans they can find.

    “Yes, Space Roasting gives it fine hints of Irish Cream, Hazelnut Roast and Folgers Crystals.”

    It’s the official coffee of the Space Farce.

  283. 283.

    Mnemosyne

    There’s a new open thread above, and I have a Kamala Harris-related query up there for our resident lawyers.

  284. 284.

    Salty Sam

    @sdhays:

    I think Beto is an impressive politician and I think we can expect great things from him, especially if Texas gives him a chance to represent them on a state-wide level. But the desire to push him into the Presidential race has always seemed pretty weird to me. We need people like Beto focusing on Texas, just like we need amazing people like Stacy Abrams focusing on Georgia. We have a lot of good Presidential options this year; we don’t need to trick people who aren’t really ready to jump into the race too.

    Agree with this 100%. I canvassed for Beto last year, and knew what a steep hill he had in front of him. I was ecstatic for the showing he made against Cruz.

    Whoever the poster is that claims Beto has “loser stink” on him does not have a fcking clue as to 1) what Beto was up against in his Senate run, 2) how well he did, and 3) how much he is still admired here (I love that there are still BETO yard signs and placards everywhere).

    AND, I agree that he would do well to continue to build on his experience before tackling a presidential run. 2024 is soon enough.

  285. 285.

    Aleta

    @Jay: And they’re having a “pre-sale” soon — asking people to buy it before the buyer knows how it tastes. In effect “We’re selling it before we know if it worked.” Kind of an admission that whatever beans they pass off aren’t the point. Forget the taste; it’s the thought of space.

  286. 286.

    NotMax

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Take it from someone who has had more of them than you can shake a telephone pole at, that was a swing and a miss. Learn from it.

    @satby

    In agreement when it comes to the recently all too frequent ahistorical tendency towards “What if Napoleon had nukes?” types of conjecture.

  290. 290.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @NotMax:
    I’m pretty sure I only do that in open threads anyway, mostly.
    @satby:
    And as for “derailing” threads, its not my fault people respond. When I made my first comment in this thread, it wasn’t my intention to derail anything, just to mock dumb talking points. Besides, this was an open thread. How do you derail an open thread? They flow organically and I can’t help it if a lot of people find my comments interesting and respond. Perhaps you could enlighten me about my so-called pattern, so I don’t repeat it again.

  291. 291.

    Fair Economist

    @Salty Sam: I think the “loser stink” claim is a misreading of something I said, which is that if he ran against Cornyn and lost, he’d get some “loser stink”. He certainly doesn’t have it now.

  292. 292.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: You bring to mind the old joke about the newly convicted felon’s first day in prison:

    At lunch one of the “guys” at his table says, “Seventeen,” & everyone erupts in laughter. Someone else says, “No, wait – Thirty-two!” & another round of laugter ensues. The newbie says, “What’s going on?” He is then informed that all the jokes they know are so old that for brevity’s sake they’ve given them numbers.

    “Cool,” the newbie replies. “Can I try?” “Sure, go ahead.” “Twenty-eight!” he shouts, & is greeted with – total silence. “Wait a minute, isn’t 28 a funny joke?” “It is – but you told it wrong.”

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