For a couple of months I have basically been doing a tv news embargo- I basically will watch a little bit of the local news (especially since the WV Legislature is in session) to catch the weather, although around here the river and valleys make things pretty difficult to predict- basically if they say snow you can expect between a dusting and twelve inches because there really is never an accurate prediction. At any rate, this means I have not really seen Trump speak for a couple months, other than your random clip here or there. I didn’t watch the SOTU so I didn’t see him them.
There are a few reasons for this, one is to keep my blood pressure down- cable news if consumed in quantity can make you manic. The other is because I liked to read, I’m a very fast reader, and the information density in articles is just so much higher. It’s just easier to read for three minutes and get what I would from 20 minutes of tv and not have to listen to fucking Trump. I mean, I love Rachel Maddow, but sweet mother of God you ask her what time it is and she will tell you how to build a clock. It takes 32 minutes of teases to get to the fucking nut graf and then it’s some shit you already new because you saw the breaking news from Buzzfeed on twitter 2 hours ago. It’s like sitting on the edge of the bed being told how good the sex is going to be for so long you just fall asleep before anything happens.
At any rate, the reason I tell you this is I just watched Trump’s press conference in which he declared a national emergency for an existential crisis and then noted that he “didn’t have to do this.” At any rate, what stood out to me was “SWEET FANCY MOSES THIS GUY IS INSANE AND UNHINGED.”
This is not a new revelation- I mean I have known he was nucking futz for quite some time. But going a few months with our hearing half words dribble out his rancid piehole and then watching that spectacle today was just jarring. It’s alarming how we’ve all just been normalized to him being a madman. I mean, he’s fucking certifiable.
If you watched Trump today and it was the first time you had ever seen him, you’d think either “holy shit this episode of VEEP is some inspired writing” or “when did they reboot the Office?” I mean, you woldn’t let someone like that run your boy scout troop. Or a fucking McDonalds.
Jesus tapdancing christ.
Appreciate the trigger warning. I’m not (intentionally) watching it because I kanna take it, captain.
Maybe Nancy can save us. Maybe.
LOL about Rachel telling you how to build a clock. I love her too, but so true!
I’ve seen clips of the orange fart cloud speaking from time to time, but he did sound even more deranged today than usual. TPM has a clip of a weird sing-songy thing he did here. If someone did that on a subway, I’d avert my eyes and mentally inventory the items on my person that could be used as weapons.
Beyond the aesthetics, today’s performance was disastrous to his future court case alleging that this is a true national emergency. He literally said, “I didn’t need to do this. But I’d rather do it much faster.”
He also said he didn’t get the WALL done sooner, i.e., when his party controlled Congress, because he was “new to the job.” As someone noted on Twitter, is it any wonder his lawyers won’t allow him anywhere near Mueller?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I see more of him than I want to, because I watch more cable news than I like to admit even to myself. I only saw a few clips of this televised…. whatever it was… the spike in nuttiness of whatever his diagnosis should be, but from saying Obama told him he (Obama) was ready to go to war with NORK to the highly dubious claim that the prime minister of an important ally, Abe, told trump that Abe had nominated trump for the Nobel, this one was something different. Not that it will change anything. Willard Romney and Lamar Alexander and Marco Rubio and others who had the audacity to present themselves as candidates for the presidency will grimace and tut and maybe, maybe make speeches on the floor, but none of them will say “Beautiful robes my ass, I am tired of watching him jump and down with his flabby ass and mushroom dick out for all the world to see.”
And being trump, he couldn’t just say Abe told him about the Nobel, Abe showed him a “beautiful letter… a copy of a beautiful letter…” Gotta love the self-editing as the fantasy unfurls in his bat-crowded belfry. I’m assuming Abe still thinks managing President Billy Mummy of the Cornfields matters more than national dignity. He can meet Lindsey and Susan in the bar at Mal-A-Loco and do shots and start telling each other that they’ve had enough, next time they’re gonna look him shtraight in the eyes and /hiccup/ and tell him to his fashe…
Can someone confirm he spoke about Xi Jinping in a fake “me likey flied lice” Chinese accent? Jesus fucking Christ.
I guess we notice his anti-Asian racism less because it’s crowded out by his anti-Latino, anti-black, and anti-Native American racism.
i wouldn’t trust this guy to pump my gas.
…and don’t forget the anti-Semitism.
Steve in the ATL
@Timurid: wait—is trump doing anime and manga now?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
thirded, even making allowances for those non-news junkies who are said to appreciate the long roll outs, she needs to cut to the chase more often. I think it’s almost five years ago the Simpsons writers wrote her a part mocking it, but she’s gotten worse. I usually liked the historical dives and connections she used to do, but more and more it’s just “can you believe it!” repetition.
I betcha I haven’t heard Trump speak more than a couple lines in over a year. I lunge at the radio and shut it off as fast as I can. It keeps me somewhat sane.
@Steve in the ATL:
He’s gone full hentai…
I haven’t watched TV since 2005 at least. Got rid of cable and the reception of the basic channels was too poor. I haven’t ever heard a speech from a politician (not even Obama). What’s the point of listening to Trump. You know it’s all going to be incoherent nonsense with offensive insults and pig snorts (I’ve seen enough snippets to know that). I have no idea why people who are not paid to listen to him do so. The only time I’ll make an exception is if Trump drops dead in the middle of a speech of a coronary. That I’ll put on a loop.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ten minutes of material and an hour to fill. What to do, what to do…?
The day to day interaction with a mad man in power accumstom’s people to the madness.
Here is General Alfred Jodl, Hitler’s Chief of Operations, who turned himself into a fanatical Nazi and devoted follower of Hitler, commenting on Hitler’s “method” of making war:
“If there is anything that clearly demonstrates the revolutionary character of Hitler’s method of [military] leadership, it is that he did not concede to his military working staff, the OKW, and within it, the Operations Staff, the role of strategic adviser. All attempts I undertook in this direction failed. Hitler was willing to have a working staff that translated his decisions into orders which he would then issue as Supreme Commander of the Wehrmacht, but nothing more…He did not care to hear any other points of view; if they were even hinted at he would break into short-tempered fits of enraged agitation. Remarkable – and, for soldiers, incomprehensible – conflicts developed out of Hitler’s almost mystical conviction of his own infallibility as leader of the nation and of the war.” In other words, even Jodl realized that Hitler was nuttier than a fruitcake, but his orders had to be followed because he was “the Fuhrer,” Jodl and the rest being captives of a “social madness” that is being in a cult. http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/defeat/catastrophe-stalingrad.htm For the Republican Party, Fox News, the Base and sadly much of the MSM and Village who cover the Administration, all are now in that special bubble of madness that surrounds Trump. I doubt this will end well.
If God allowed Trump to become President, as so many of his supporters believe, he did this to punish America, as he has from time to time in history (see Lincoln’s Second Inaugural.)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Stephen Colbert also did a good imitation of Rachel; it’s probably on YouTube
West of the Rockies
So true about Rachel… I love her, but sooo many episodes begin, “In 1952, the Democratic-led congress of Connecticut was deliberating a bill to protect the sale of goldfish….”
I watch Colbert’s monologues while doing half-hour stretches every day, and that’s the only time I see Trump. Even that is bad enough.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That drives me crazy too. Just get to the point. And yet sometimes I learn something new in the buildup but I’m still irritated.
Trump is a disgrace yet the base thinks he’s Jesus’ second coming. How does that work? Is making libs cry the only metric they care about now?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Remember when it was reported that Barr and Mueller were longtime close friends, and trump was enraged that no one told him pre-nomination?
Here’s a big bowl of lukewarm shit to eat on your first day, Mr Attorney General. Mr Whitaker will be watching to make sure you eat it all up.
whatever TV is spooling out.
Rachel loses me; it’s a blizzard of words and someone with ADD will tune right out. She should not make her listeners work so hard. We get it. You’re clever and facile with words. OK. But too many goddamned words. It’s like a hostage situation.
It is odd that we (on this blog) like to read and gather more information that way, and the occupant of the Oval Office does not and listens to a fatally flawed TV channel for his inputs. Odd and tragic.
There is a lot of talk these days about the 25th Amendment, which makes me think that that the solution in The Madness of King George would be a good way to carry it out.
“If he swears and indulges in meaningless discourse – he will be restrained!”
“I am the President of the United States!”
“No Sir – you are the patient!”
No cable and no Rachel for years now. I have always found her long winded and BORING. Does she still mix cocktails at the end of the hour when she is making some lame attempts at humor?
West of the Rockies
Just watched it… Fabulous!
I imagine Trump’s explicit statement that he didn’t have to do this will no more undermine his case with SCOTUS than all his Muslim ban tweets undermined his argument that he wasn’t banning Muslims.
I’ve thought for a long time that rage and resentment against liberals is a very strong motivator for trumpettes and they aren’t ever going to give that up. Addicted to hate.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think the underlying problem is that it’s a lot of effort to make even a short news segment, so somebody like Maddow can’t really fill the space they’ve given her with well researched content. They’re paying her too much to have her on the air for only 15 minutes a day (or whatever her real productivity is) so she has to stretch her material to fill the space available.
Honestly, I think this is the problem with 24 hour news channels in general: there simply isn’t enough general interest news to fill 24 hours a day. They could get away with some repetition, but they still wind up with a lot of space to fill. They could do it by the BBC approach of covering the news in more depth, but it’s way cheaper to get a bunch of pundits and “news analysts” to bloviate than it is to do a good job, and strongly opinionated bloviators attract a loyal audience in a way bland news delivery doesn’t.
“Now”? Was there a time when they cared about anything else?
AND, the GOP knows this…which is why they will NEVER BE FORGIVEN..
@Roger Moore: She does 25 unbroken minutes to start the show _every day_. I really don’t think the format demands that.
Ditto to both.
She’s full of herself, too. Don’t get all this professed “love”.
@Betty Cracker: He literally said, “I didn’t need to do this. But I’d rather do it much faster.”
This is the thing about Trump, he is all positions at once. He says everything. He covers the waterfront. Of course he is certifiably crazy and extreme BS artist and all that too.
I always have said Mike Pence has always reminded me of manager Michael Scott, just with white hair and less brains. Trump is the crazy corporate dude brought in from NYC to fix things.
If he is impeached and convicted based on Mueller, I will never understand what took so long.
I watched just a snippet of Shitgibbon’s “speech” and yes, it’s an eye opener, he is truly batshit. How can anyone watch and listen to him and not understand that.
What is slowly driving me crazy is knowing that his supporters look at exactly the same behavior and conclude, “Greatest president ever!”
And the right wing media aids and abets this insanity. And yes, there is a difference between the right wing media and the rest of the media, which has its own problems.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@eemom: whatever, people like different stuff
DougJ once said the most ferocious pushback he ever got here was when said that he thought Jon Stewart was (IIRC) smarmy and overrated.
ETA: and that, IIRC, was before JS went all hipster-broder at that Rally About Nothing
There was no teleprompter.
The whole thing was unhinged, but this stands out. Rupar has a thread of clips attached to this if you want more.
After all, the new conservative judges are bought and paid for.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:Jon Stewart was way too both-sidery in the Obama era. He was better during the W era.
@Ian G.: Refuse to listen to him actually utter the words, but per Daniel Dale’s Twitter thread reporting on the speech; yes, yes he did go all stereotypical Chinaman speaking style. I believe Dale phrased it as “in the style of a non-native English speaker”.
I can’t keep /facepalming or I’ll end up hospitalizing myself due to brain trauma.
Rachel Maddow is the female “mansplainer” if ever there was one.
She is so smart that I think she has gotten used to talking down and over-explaining everything. I like her but wow, sometimes she really provides far more background than is demanded. And she repeats it two or three times because we are stupid. She HAS to have producers who see what is happening and who have tried to direct her. The fact that she still runs the show that way suggests how stubborn she is.
24 hour news.
It’s all fluff and bullshit. With just enough traffic accidents/hourly weather/earthquake/tornado/hurricane info to keep you coming back. With pictures of some moron standing in a monsoon telling you it’s raining. There was as much info when it was the 6:00pm news and that was it. In LA there were still 5 stations giving you the same info. The world day to day just isn’t that interesting for 24 hrs of news. Occasionally yes, but still not all that often.
He did and the boys hanging around the gun shop in Dumbfuq Alabama thought it was a hoot.
So ….. a WIN!
He might almost be a Buddhist philosopher. He is nowhere yet everywhere.
@schrodingers_cat: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: What’s funny is that I enjoyed Stewart, I enjoyed Maddow, and then when Stewart went on Maddow’s show and Maddow said she thought they did similar things Stewart got all salty about it. IOW they are in some ways similar enough to bug each other in a “narcissism of small differences” way.
On the other hand, he did get some pushback from a couple of reporters. He didn’t like it.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Zampolit Whitaker, eh? Doesn’t quite have the ring one might expect.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@schrodingers_cat: Stewart and Krugman (at least in the first couple years) had a weird resentment of Obama that I could never quite figure out. I think in a way Krugman paved the way for Wilmer by persuading half the left blogosphere that the Stimulus could have been eleventy trillion dollars if Obama really waaaah-nted and if he hadn’t liked Lawrence Summers better than Christie Roemer– I suspected that had a lot to do with both Krugman’s personal relationships. When IIRC Jonathan Chait called him out and laid out the actual negotiations and votes in Congress, Krugman responded with “I don’t do politics! I’m just a bearded economist!” It was not his finest moment
I’m not watching. I’ve seen Alzheimer’s dementia up close and I don’t need to see it again. Especially from a demented moronic narcissist who should be wearing a wrap around jacket with arms that tie in the back and living in a room with padded walls.
@schrodingers_cat: IIRC, she only did cocktails on Fridays to end the show. And I haven’t seen her do so in quite some time.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
In the past couple days I have seen this “Wilmer” reference pop up. Maybe I’m really clueless, but who is Wilmer and what is the significance? I feel like I’m missing some meme. Google doesn’t pop up any links that make sense.
It’s simple. When she is focused and on point, she is one of the better journalists working today.
@Gravenstone: It was mercifully brief, but Trump did say, imitating Xi, “We have death penalty!” You could tell he wanted to extend that riff but maybe Bill Shine twitched his nose or something, so he moved on to wishing we executed drug dealers in America to solve the opioid crisis. If he meant the Sacklers, I could almost get behind that notion…
@Kent: During the last presidential election, this name was given to a certain senator from Vermont, whose real name would attract trolls.
@Kent: Our nickname for the sage of Vt. If you used his real name during the 2016 campaign, swarms of his true believers would descend in the blog comments to protect the honor of their patron saint.
@Kent: Wilmer is the aged Senator from Vermont. Apparently using his real name leads his followers to come here and argue.
ETA or what schrodingers_cat and Lapassionara just said.
@Kent: Maddow is a radio host doing a television program. Too many people seem not to understand that.
@Kent: Wilmer is our name for the senator in Vermont who ran as a Democratic presidential candidate in 2016, even though he is an Independent. If you type his name here, trolls often appear, so he is called Wilmer.
edit: or what the other three said. Those comments were not there when I started typing, I swear.
(Raises hand). I guess I’m one of those people who have no idea what you mean by this.
@Brachiator: That’s it. She’s also informed in a way that allows her to react to news in real time effectively. That might seem basic, but it eludes 100% of the CNN yapping heads. Chris Hayes had Maddow as a guest on a podcast once, and it was pretty fascinating, the way they talked about preparation. Neither is perfect, and I don’t always agree with them, but they take their roles seriously, and you don’t come away from watching a broadcast dumber than when you started watching.
Has anyone else gotten a message from Moveon? They are trying to mobilize protests, to be scheduled for Monday afternoon.
This. I also get a little tired of the 30 minute A block. She should cut it back to 15-20 minutes and add another block. She also refuses to do panels as most of the other MSNBC hosts do. So you get a half hour of one story, usually followed by a lengthy interview that is tied into the A block. I’m ok with the format, but would prefer more subject matter, less build up.
that said, she still beats anyone else on nighttime cable.
@WaterGirl: Dear dear dear. You of all people should know you have to type fast on this here blog or else your idea becomes unoriginal in no time flat. Hell I predict I’ll be the third person to mention this to you once it publishes.
EDIT: I was wrong but I think folks have moved on to other threads.
@Yutsano: Normally, I am a super fast at typing! It was trying to figure out how to describe who Wilmer is without using his actual name that really slowed me down!
That portion put me in mind of a whinging Jewish mother: “You never call, you never write, …” What an embarrassment this person is.
For the first eight years out of college, I worked in television (before videotape, I might add), and then I never wanted to see it again; I haven’t owned a TV for more than three decades. I still get all the news online, but it’s blessedly silent,. I seldom watch clips, and I flatly refuse to listen to His Royal Heinous. That voice and the snorting are intolerable–and that’s apart from even the subject matter.
The comments here only confirm my choice not to watch. Folks, he’s talking to himself. If you decide you must listen, that’s your choice.
There were stacks of Trump investment tip books I saw at a bargain store surrounding Claire McCaskill’s Plenty Ladylike. There might have been a message there.
Do they, really?
Sure, some do…
But, I think others pretend otherwise.
@Betty Cracker: Thank you for this. I guess I am in a minority here. I like Maddow, especially her long-winded set ups. The facts are all accurate, the delivery is good, and it’s like having a private tutoring session with a good professor. You learn things.
Rachel (and my Mom) would benefit from an intervention from someone who has been taught to teach “the Army way”
1. Tell them what you’re going to tell them
(state the point in the fewest possible short words)
2. Tell them
(with twenty-seven 8X10 glossy photographs and four-part harmony.)
3. Tell them what you’ve told them
(Restate step 1.)
Rachel omits step 1.
My mom omits both steps 1 and 3.
@joel hanes: I had a professor who did that. We religiously got sloshed after each class.
especially her long-winded set ups
Before I set out to drive all day, I decide on a destination and look at a map.
I’m good with all the details and byways; I just wish she’d tell us where she’s going before she sets out.
I suspect she thinks of it as dramatic tension, but I also suspect that much of her audience is shouting at the tube “That’s all very interesting but WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME THIS? WHAT IS THE POINT?”
Love her. She’s very clear. And, we needed another word for “lie”. Falsehood is serious and somber and a good one.
Compare to “Pinocchio”. Are we 6 years old? No.
Perhaps. She also, to a certain extent, always wants to show her notes. A typical journalist might collect 50 pages of notes to do a 1-page story. Maddow wants to show us all 50 pages of esoterica that lead her to her 1-page conclusion. Sometimes I find the deep dive into history really informative and interesting. Other times I just want her to get to the point.
I read somewhere — perhaps on this very blog — that Maddow’s approach and timing, the slow buildup with lots of repetition and backgrounding, are perfect for reaching viewers who maybe stepped out of the room to change a diaper or had their hair under the dryer for ten minutes or otherwise can only dip in and out of TV watching. That her style is aimed at pink-collar workers and the like.
ETA: It’s a lot like daytime soaps in that way.
Sadly, a lot of them do. And this is based not only on conversations with these misguided dopes, but also on overheard conversations at lunch and during my commute. A lot of this is, to my ears, often desperate and illogical, but still expresses the real hopes and desires of these folk.
I read a transcript, and my reaction was the same. The president is delusional, and making decisions about our entire country based on fictions that exist only in his mind. Duct-taped women, again.
More surprising was just how many of the comments on that transcript said variations on the same thing. Trump is crazy. And by crazy, they mean genuine certifiable Thorazine stat crazy, not just nutty uncle crazy.
@Kent: She used to do a bit on her radio show where she’d look into the origins of a word, phrase, or slang. It was really fascinating from a research perspective as she’d track it back as far as she could figure, and then would get into “I’m just guessing at the following bits, and let me explain my reasoning.”
That “show your notes” mentality is one thing I’ve always liked about her, but when you’re already all caught up it’s just kind of boring.
@stinger: Twice I’ve tried to edit to add “Her show is much like daytime soaps in that way.” I suppose that edit will show up, now that I’ve made a second comment!
I feel like a lot of Maddow’s segments are aimed at people who are less plugged in than people who comment on political blogs. If we know a lot of what she says already, it’s probably because we obsessively refresh these places for comments and new posts. Most people aren’t as obsessive as we are.
That said, I still frequently find her deep dives into history informative and often gain valuable new context from them – often enough she’s covering events that happened before my birth or during my childhood. And she does a lot of superb investigative reporting. She’s been leading her time slot among cable news programs in the key demographic for awhile, if I’m not mistaken, so obviously there’s a big audience for what she does.
The comment above that she’s doing a radio program on cable seems pretty accurate, though. The visuals are usually an afterthought. And I do sometimes find myself wanting her to get to the point – but I should note that I usually watch her on YouTube, so I can frequently guess where segments are going from the titles and descriptions.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Not gonna count any chickens but I would love to see her indicted
as one of the first replies put it: She followed up by saying this was unrelated to the trump white house
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Has she ever testified under oath?
Trumpov’s craziness is a feature not a bug in wingnut world. It’s a strategy, and libtards are too stupid to understand his genius. So shut up! You’re crazy! Winning! MAGAAAAAAAA!
@Brachiator: My dad is a hard core tRumper (at 87, so definitely the core FAUX news demo), or I should say he was. He admitted to my younger sister that he’s “very disappointed” in him, but once she tried to draw him out he started defending tRump again. You know, just the usual reflexive republicanism and I don’t think he’s capable of changing that.
I was telling him about a group of 6 asshole (religion specific to Utah) guys we had on a back country ski lodge trip, who made it very clear they were very unhappy that there were women on this trip (their wives are home with the 4+ kids, homeschooling; they aren’t allowed to go on ski trips because that’s “guy/head of household time”). He was sympathetic until I slipped up and used the word “conservative” but in terms of their religious views about the role of women, and from that point on her defended these assholes to me after they had been shits to me and the other woman on the trip. That’s reflexive Republicanism for you, he took the side of 6 guys he’s never met over that of his daughter; bros before hoes and all that I guess. If he wasn’t 87 and trying hard to keep me in his life by never bringing up politics again (I told him he’d never see me again if he wanted to keep yelling at me about his politics), I’d walk away completely but he is my dad and probably won’t be around that much longer given his health issues.
Anyone remember Olbermann?
Notice how many of us here refuse to watch news, we’d rather read it. Partly because it is more efficient, and partly because we can’t stand tRump. I don’t watch TV news because it is too in your face and it takes the serenity of a Zen master to not let that increase your blood pressure and anger level. Remember, when you are angry, your IQ drops something like 15 points. That pretty much explains FOX news and their audience.
I have one full tRumpy friend, fairly casual and we know not to talk about politics with each other. But he is constantly talking about the things he should do, and then never does, like starting to learn an instrument or walking to try to rehab from his nearly 3 year old double knee replacement, or start therapy because he is so often consumed by anger. The key to all these things is he just sits in his recliner, gets high, eats junk and watches FOX News all day and night. No wonder he is consumed by anger.
The radio reference refers to how some radio talk show hosts string you along for 10, 20, 30 minutes before they get to some central point. Many years ago a station brought Howard Stern to our city (when he was terrestial radio guy). I listened once and couldn’t believe how aimless and pointless it was when you’re just listening to him.
Hey everyone, remember that Howard Schultz guy? At least we’re not talking about him. One good thing to be said for the week.
@eemom: He does a sports sit-down gig with a co-anchor on ESPN…he stopped doing The Resistance on GQ teevee (YouTube?) because he felt he had said everything he needed to say and going further would have risked his mental health
It’s too bad that he would take sides with a bunch of sexist jerks, but I like that at least in some ways he is trying to be accommodating with you, and I hope this provides some consolation.
James E Powell
I know he has a lot of issues, but there was a time when Olberman was the only one not giving George W “Our Churchill” Bush a nightly tongue bath on cable and I will always remember him well for that.
I wish that she would cut the first block down to 15-18 minutes tops. The 20+ minute first block with no commercials…geesh…
But, the truth is, a lot of people here are political junkies…if you come to Maddow cold, or are a casual user of the news, then she’s very informative.
I do appreciate when she follows up on stories that usually she and maybe one other person in the media is following.
Outside of Ari Berman and Rev Al, she was on voter suppression before anyone on tv.
The Dolt45 Inauguration slush fund – her and USA Today – that was it.
I do appreciate it when she reads the actual transcripts from court proceedings, though. I always enjoy that.
So I’m hearing he’s planning to take $6 billion from military construction projects for his stupid wall. First, this amounts to about $8 billion if you include the money Congress just gave him, far more money than he will need. Second, how many construction jobs will disappear because of this and when did he stop caring about construction workers?
I can’t wait until they start trying to take Texan land by eminant domain. That is going to be a hoot.
They don’t actually believe it, they are only doing it because it pisses off people like you. It’s all fun and games until their social security checks stop rolling in. His support is 100% held up because our economy allows them to not suffer the consequences (yet) of it. Same with Brexit.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
First, I doubt he paved much in the way at all toward those people because he changed his tune after the 2010 midterms which is six years before. The people he influenced were already going down that path with or without Krugman.
Second, I don’t think it necessarily has to do with “personal relationships” but just how battle lines have drawn up among economists. Basically, the Chicago School has been an infection on that field Krugman’s entire professional career, and people like Summers are on that side. If you made a career in economics based on real research and discovery, you care about those people using your field as a false rationale to bring us back to the conditions that gave us the Great Depression.
I remember talking to my brother, an economist, the day after Obama was first elected in 2008, and he expressed worries about the Chicago School contingent in Obama’s (probably future) cabinet so shortly after the crash. I pointed out, “Yes, that is true. Nobody is perfect, but rather him than McCain. I have a feeling that it won’t be enough and he’ll learn the same lesson about those people that [Bill] Clinton eventually did.” Granted, they’re both from Princeton, but my brother even then was no fan of Paul Krugman.
A lot of people had concerns. Those of us who are more practical could shrug it off. Paul Krugman, a MIT-trained Princeton economist and future Nobel Prizewinner living in academia could afford to be less practical, and Obama’s folly is a lot more obvious and dangerous to him and his field than it is to me, who only took economics to get out of my social sciences/humanities requirements in school.
I’m still uncertain that if Obama hadn’t been so enamored with them and had asked for far more in stimulus and changes he could not have gotten it so early. At the minimum, he might have made it so the stimulus wasn’t spent in such a politically foolish manner (as a tax credit). We forget just how popular he was in his first year.
On the other hand, if it were actually true deep down then Trump’s party wouldn’t have been destroyed in the midterms and his poll numbers wouldn’t take a dive every time his actions affect the economy. These people say they believe this way, but their actions speak to an entirely different set of motivations.
Most of them are ecstatic that he’s an asshole and gives them permission to be open assholes. Yay, he’s the president and he trashes the same people I want to trash.
The Bundys of Amarillo!
They believe it. I know them. It’s not monolithic, but a lot of the things we think are proof that he’s a horrible president they think are proof he is the only president ever to actually deliver. Things we think make him look stupid they think make him look honest. They don’t give a fuck about facts, and neither does he. He says what they know in their heart is true, that brown people are scary and violent and everything will be great if white Americans stomp on every other group hard enough. There are details, stuff like collusion, where they know he’s lying and they’re lying, but again fuck facts, it’s more important to spite their enemies. Overall in job performance, though? Yes, they actually do think he’s the best president ever. There’s a little confusion set in as to why the paradise for white people hasn’t happened yet, since he seems to be torturing brown people and the base assumption they will never assumption is that torturing brown people will make their lives better.
I just posted this to the 2 hour dead thread downstairs. ICYMI.
https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/emergency-powers is supposed to be a good writeup of the ins-and-outs of what can and cannot happen. IANAL.
(See the original for embedded links.)
Trump’s voters turned out in high numbers in the midterms. The GOP got trashed because everyone else was more angry and motivated than ever before, not because Trump’s voters were disappointed in him. And the lesson of Trump’s popularity has been that damn near nothing makes more than the most momentary dent in his base, including him completely fucking them over financially like with the soybean stuff.
I don’t know where to put this — but has anyone read Trump’s Evergency Proclamation?.
It is extra illegal. It is entirely about deploying the military to the border. Which is illegal for different reasons than just moving money around which is also probably illegal. This is NOT just moving money, it is militarizing the southern border.
Think suspension of habeas corpus….
Steve in the ATL
@terry chay: as a Chicago native, I’m tired of the Chicago School killing my brand!
@Another Scott: Thanks for posting this. I think! I now feel even sicker about this than I did before.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@terry chay: At Eschaton, DKos and a lot of other blogs Krugman was invoked as a shibboleth by people who couldn’t (wouldn’t) quite grasp the fact that legislation is passed by Congress, not the Cabinet or the President’s Council of Economic Advisors or the President’s earnest desires, or volume, or passion, and who were desperate for any straw they could grasp to argue that Obama was, among other things, a secret Republican. See also, the Public Option, Dan Choi and Sonia Sotomayor (did you know she was a pro-life sleeper agent? Atrios told me so)
I think what “we” forget is that Blanche Lincoln, Mark Pryor, Ben Nelson, Joe Lieberman, Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, Tim Johnson and several others didn’t have a firm grasp, or interest in, Keynsian economics or how popular Barack Obama was. And that’s just the Senate.
@Immanentize: I’ll just copy what I wrote in response to Scott two comments above yours:
Lincoln did that, so it Trumpworld that makes Trump Lincoln*.
*Did you know Lincoln was also a Republican?
This is not true at all, and in fact misses a key point.
This does not piss me off. Nor do I think they care whether you and I are pissed off.
I care that Trump’s stupid policies are hurting the country and hurting people. I care that a core group of Trump supporters don’t believe in democracy, but want an kind of democratic autocracy in which people who don’t think or look the right way are targeted for harassment or punishment.
This is not true either, and misses something dangerous. These people are also being hurt. The new tax law hurts them. The tariffs and Trump’s other misguided economic policies hurt them and takes money from them.
The sad thing is that Trump has convinced them to ignore the signs that they are being screwed over. For example, even though the GOP lied and claimed that they favored health insurance that protected people with pre-existing conditions, all the proposals they actually wrote eliminated these protections.
They also quietly changed the way that cost of living is calculated for various federal amounts, which absolutely will result in smaller social security checks.
But the foolish Trump supporters blame the Democrats and Obama (still) for anything they don’t like and look to Trump as their savior.
Also, when it comes to BREXIT, I’ve listened to audio clips of people calling in to talk to James O’Brien and other UK talk radio hosts and proudly declare that they either don’t believe that a no deal BREXIT will hurt them, or worse, declare that they don’t mind being kicked in the ass, just as long as foreigners are kept out of the country.
I wouldn’t mind if these fools could be put into a corner and engineer their own destruction. But I hate it that they want to pull the rest of the country down with them.
@Immanentize: Am I wrong or did he leave out little details like, “I WANT WALL!!!” There’s nothing in there about construction or anything of the sort. It’s just an illegal troop movement that the Democratic governours in the West have already shot down.
Hateful as that proclamation is, I wish he would have just read it, turned around, and walked back into the White House. That endless extemporizing was horrifying.
When did he START?
He said he cared. Do his words mean nothing? //
In the real word, these words would foil the whole thing. Howsomever …
@Yutsano: There is reference to construction powers. But what the hell is that part about the airforce?
@Skepticat: I know, I thought that too, but the theme for two years has been the words Trump uses, although they seem to be the same, are not the words we understand.
@debbie: We are better off that he thinks he is a great skat artist. He said shit that hurt his points.
@Yutsano: It seems, from reading it(and IANAL), that it calls up Ready Reserve(folks who thought they were done serving) and grabs land.
@Immanentize: Bomb the Texas ranchers that don’t want to give up their land.
@kindness: Updated daily.
@schrodingers_cat: Nope, not so much of late. I actually enjoyed those cocktail mixing segments.
@Brachiator: the constitution ain’t a suicide pact. If these cretins want to jump off their alt reality cliff, I don’t have to follow