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You are here: Home / Immigration / Hardly Sporting Open Thread: Bob Kraft’s Notorious Balls

Hardly Sporting Open Thread: Bob Kraft’s Notorious Balls

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This was the lead story on all the local Boston news stations last night, of course. There is a category of Patriots fans for whom — or so the media informs me — Bob Kraft is A GAWD, and the fans hanging around the Patriots stadium mall were universal in their conviction that Kraft could specify his choice of age, race, gender, hotness, experience level, and probably blood type for a sexual partner, and have someone delivered to his residence within thirty minutes. (Also, he gives so much to the community. Why does nobody wanna talk about his massive charity efforts, just because of some misdemeanor that happened all the way down in Florida?)

Chris Thompson, reporting for sports website Deadspin:

It’s hard to imagine anyone driving to Orchids of Asia for a massage, let alone being driven there in a luxury automobile from a luxury home in a ritzy town 30 minutes away. It’s a drab, faded, unimpressive-looking place, with sun-bleached signage, in a shopping center that offers no obvious lure for the Rolls Royce set. You don’t happen upon it…

But a parking lot doesn’t need to be full of deep-tissue clients in order to be full; it just needs people who want what’s being sold inside. And on Friday afternoon, shortly after the Bob Kraft news broke, it’s full of people seeking, more than anything else, a memorable photograph…

The conversation on the shaded sidewalk in front of Orchids is all about Bob Kraft. A local reporter grabs anyone passing by for a quote or perspective. She tells me people have been trickling by for selfies and Instagram videos since the morning, before Kraft’s name was even in it, but that the crowd has grown noticeably since the morning press conference. An NBC Boston reporter grabs a grandmotherly woman with a heavy New England accent, who tells her she’s here on vacation and is inclined to give Kraft the benefit of the doubt, because he’s “a good man” who has done so much for Boston and for “the National Football League.” A photographer coaxes a triumphant barefoot man in a Giants t-shirt into shouting “Go New York Post” for a brief cell phone video. A beaming elderly fellow is saying “Perverted Patriots!” over and over again, because, he explains, soon the phrase is going to be “a thing.”…

… A woman in large sunglasses who came along for the show nevertheless calls her teenage daughter away from the Orchids doorway, cautioning that she doesn’t want her “in all that.” A business owner, leaning on a nearby column, gossips with the mom, telling her that police canvassed Jupiter Square and advised all the owners and staff on how to avoid saying anything to assembled media. He tells her his wife is crying. Immediately I wonder if she’s a Patriots fan—it’s whole seconds before I remember that there’s something to care about here beyond the illicit sexual predilections of a billionaire. Everything here is Kraft…

Which, y’know, somehow leads me to the impression that ol’ Bob could have been more discriminating in his choices, but he just didn’t wanna. Just like his buddy Donald Trump could hire legal workers for his various businesses — but the undocumented workers he scams are somehow more convenient.

I’m open to the argument that the ‘massage girls’ at Orchids of Asia Day Spa are not necessarily worse off than the housekeepers ironing Trump’s undies at Mar-A-Largo… and yet, I do not find this an argument in favor of letting Kraft slide while the women in question are, I assume, deported. Or worse.

Like it or not, we’re gonna hear more…

Aaaand here come The Worst People in Media to reinforce everyone’s nastiest suspicions:


(My nasty suspicion being that not-very-bright-but-better-educated-than-he-pretends Tucker Carlson is baiting the morons for profit, and Roger Goodell is one of those morons).

Reader Interactions

85Comments

  1. 1.

    MomSense

    It’s just so random that a strip mall would house a sex trafficking ring. It looks like a place where you would find a nail salon, pet supply place, and a Chinese buffet.

  4. 4.

    JMG

    Humiliation and being the subject of a zillion dirty jokes (my brother in Florida and I have been exchanging them all day via text and email) will be the only punishments Trump gets, but those are not insignificant punishments as far as he’s concerned. They will sting and they will go on longer than any formal sentence for a misdemeanor. Like forever.

  6. 6.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @la caterina:

    Where is Cole’s post?

    Wasn’t his dad’s bypass surgery scheduled for today? As a veteran of a quadruple bypass in 2001, have been keeping Dad Cole close to my heart [yes, that was deliberate] all day. Hope John will check in soon and bring the Jackaltariat up to date.

  7. 7.

    Another Scott

    The list of names seems surprisingly short to me, given the reported amount of “business” going on there. (I don’t recognize any of the names except Kraft’s.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  8. 8.

    Another Scott

    @SiubhanDuinne: There was a post before this one, from Cole, saying the surgery is going to be Monday. It’s curious that it was apparently pulled. :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  9. 9.

    Jeffro

    Ugh, gross. And sad. And I sure hope Kraft and all his fellow perps/pervs get the book thrown at them, both officially and socially

  10. 10.

    JanieM

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:

    So, why isn’t Bob Kraft getting punished for this by the NFL?

    Is that supposed to be a serious question? The news broke on Friday, you think they’re going to call a meeting on Saturday and be finished kicking him out on Sunday?

    Here’s some Boston speculation about what form the punishment will take. Based on past situations (and we can add Donald Sterling being forced to sell the Clippers), it’s not inconceivable that Kraft could be forced to sell the team. Not that I’d shed any tears over that. As far as that goes, I wouldn’t shed any tears to see the NFL dissolve itself entirely.

  12. 12.

    smintheus

    Sound like nice people, the kind who opine…

    “Oh but slavery wasn’t isn’t so bad, when you count up all the benefits they got that they wouldn’t of had back home.”

  13. 13.

    JMG

    There’s NFL precedent from when Colts owner Jim Irsay got caught with a Walgreen’s full of pills in the trunk of his car in a DUI. He was suspended six games (how does one suspend an owner exactly? He didn’t get to sit in his luxury box and was fined a half a million. Kraft will likely get the same. Sterling got kicked out of the NBA because its mostly African American players have real power to upset the apple cart. NFL players don’t.

  14. 14.

    hells littlest angel

    My guess is that he figured none of the staff would recognize who he was, that he’d be just another lemon party in Booth #3.

  17. 17.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I don’t care if this guy visited a prostitute. Who am I to judge? I don’t care if women practice prostitution. It’s a job. If you listen to the sex worker activists, and the testimony of the other sex workers who talk to them, quite a lot of them like the job, or like the job conditions. I see no moral reason to judge them or their customers.

    Women, many of them from China, lived in the spa and were not permitted to leave

    THIS is the story and the outrage and the horror, as far as I’m concerned. The slavery. Ugh. I hope someone goes to jail and something can be done for those poor women.

  20. 20.

    Jay

    @MomSense:

    Fading suburban strip malls are great locations for criming.

    The Landlord’s just happy to have a tenant.

    There’s no foot traffic.

    Most of the strip malls customers are existing customers, not new customers with open eyes.

    Few suburbs are neighbourhoods, most people keep to themselves and are “incourious”, and that includes buisness owners and employees.

    Little chance of encountering a mall customer who speaks the language, and pick up on the illegality.

  21. 21.

    Jay

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Once upon a Time in America, the women would be held by the Prosecutor as witnesses, ( saved from deportation), until the end of all the prosecutions, ( several years) and immediate asylum claims would be filed.

    That America no longer exists.

  22. 22.

    mad citizen

    @JMG: If I recall correctly, the Irsay suspension meant he couldn’t be at the stadium on game days, and I think he even had to stay away from the Colts offices, etc., during that time.

    I couldn’t help but think of wacky headlines about Kraft last night–were there any? I hit on one and couldn’t come off of it: Kraft’s shaft, film at eleven.

    Kraft Shaft no Laughing Matter

  23. 23.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Anne Laurie:
    I’m not sure I agree with that article. I don’t follow the NFL much, but I think the league should punish Kraft for this. He specifically sought out this type of parlor so that he could have sex with essentially a slave; someone he knew had no control over their lives or what he could do to her. That’s horrifyingly fucked up. He’s being given a slap on the wrist by law enforcement. Even if it isn’t putative enough, I think Kraft should have his franchise ownership taken from him at the very least. That would at least be something.

  24. 24.

    Ohio Mom

    @Another Scott: It’s been clear to me for a long time that one of Cole’s hobbies is big footing Anne Laurie.

    It’s comforting to me, a bit of all’s well in world, everything is unfolding the way it always does. I like traditions.

  25. 25.

    Raoul

    Sex trafficking is enough of an issue that flight attendants at several airlines get training on how to recognize situations that don’t seem right and how to report them so that officials can follow up. Some hotel chains are wising up to the ways they may be getting used in trafficking operations.

    A number of states have beefed up anti-trafficking laws in recent years. It’s a problem in the underbelly of our country (and globally, I’ve no doubt) that needs way more sunlight, understanding and action.

    I hope the exposure of this sh*theel Kraft helps bring more attention and action. It’s just so vile.

    @Frankensteinbeck: Yep. I have had a few gay male friends do some sex work in the past. I think the level of agency their gender and whiteness afforded them made it work that they chose, and found it useful and comfortable to do – for a time in their lives, anyway.

    The challenge is in changing the laws and the culture so that the many access points for pimps, mobsters, and traffickers are removed. The cultural mechanisms of shame and secrecy enable the disempowerment so much.

  26. 26.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    Speaking of wealthy assholes, here’s an article about Elon Musk going on YouTuber PewDiePie’s show.

    The article approvingly talks about how effective this outreach is for Tesla, and does not mention the multiple controversies that make PewDiePie a pretty problematic vehicle for Musk’s self-promotion. Even though many of those controversies have been documented by the same author in the same publication, such as PewDiePie’s repeated promotion of anti-semitic videos and channels to his millions of young fans.

    I guess Elon doesn’t see anything wrong with that, and the author is too much of a Musk-worshipper to connect the dots for her readers. Fuck PewDiePie and fuck Elon Musk.

  28. 28.

    Yarrow

    @MomSense: When they get busted and shown on the news they’re always in a kind of run down strip mall. I think the rent must be cheap and people aren’t watching them that closely.

  30. 30.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Raoul:
    You have to start with legalization. There’s a lot more to do after that, but none of it can be done if the people with any reason to report abuse have to worry about being arrested for doing so. Maybe that will turn around suddenly like so many other social issues have. I don’t know. Sex workers do have a voice now, dim and distant as it may be, where before the internet the only public activists they had were the people lumping sex work in with human trafficking – which is still a big problem for activism.

  31. 31.

    Yarrow

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:

    someone he knew had no control over their lives or what he could do to her.

    He may or may not actually have known that part. The prostitution part being illegal part he had to have known, but the trafficking and sex slavery part…how would one know that for sure?

  33. 33.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
    Yeah. People hated PewDiePie long before he revealed himself to be be a white supremacist. He’s an annoying asshole anyway. Markiplier and jacksepticeye are the real deals who are entertaining and don’t promote anti-Semitism/Nazi stuff.

  35. 35.

    Ladyraxterinok

    Read that another white Boston 70+yo male billionaire was also caught in the sting/raid/whatever on this joint. Anyone else read that??

  38. 38.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Yarrow:
    I admit, I just assumed he knew. Kraft is a man of means after all. I figure he could get that information.

  41. 41.

    Yarrow

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: I don’t see it working that way at all. Why would he ask? I mean, he could ask, but why would he? He isn’t in it to know all the details about the girls doing whatever he wants them to do. If he was then he wouldn’t be there in the first place.

  42. 42.

    Jay

    @Yarrow:

    In places where prostitution isn’t legal, it is not difficult to find a large variety of sexual services that are consentual. Escorts, independent operators, etc.

    On the other hand, there are a huge number of obvious “flags” for identifying “non-consensual” services.

    John’s know exactly what they are being provided.

  43. 43.

    Tenar Arha

    I just…Passover at the Krafts this year is gonna require extra wine all around.

    Honestly, I’m of the humble opinion that the late Myra Kraft was probably the one who was the philanthropic heart of that family. And likely the moral check on the team too.

  45. 45.

    Jay

    @Yarrow:

    It’s not hard to see. Ethical users of sex services look for it even when away. With the advent of the internet, one can easily find informed, concentual sex services globally.

    For the unethical users of sex services, the lack of informed consent is the whole point, and nothing but the point. It’s all about the power.

  46. 46.

    Anne Laurie

    @Yarrow:

    When they get busted and shown on the news they’re always in a kind of run down strip mall. I think the rent must be cheap and people aren’t watching them that closely.

    Also, prospective clients know to look for their out-of-town jollies in run-down strip malls. (So much less off-putting than the downtown red-light districts of old!)

    It’s become such a trope here in New England, at least — there’s a bust announced on the news every six weeks or so — that local towns have started viewing all licensing requests for day spas, massage parlors, and nail salons as potential sex-trafficking fronts. Bad news for people legitimately attempting to get a foothold with their own small business, of course.

  47. 47.

    JMG

    @Tenar Arha: You are not incorrect. She was also a wheel in state Democratic politics. She was also a super nice person which I can testify to on personal experience. I also want to say the following. I am younger than Bob Kraft, but not by that much, and if something happened to my wife Alice I like to think I could take it, but the honest part of me says probably not.

  49. 49.

    Anne Laurie

    @Tenar Arha:

    Honestly, I’m of the humble opinion that the late Myra Kraft was probably the one who was the philanthropic heart of that family. And likely the moral check on the team too.

    You’re not alone in thinking that.

    I suspect Kraft’s kids may be trying to get Dad to throw himself on the mercy of the court of public opinion by admitting he’s an old man who’s let his grief lead him down some very questionable paths since Myra’s death. But the more true that is, the less likely Bob is gonna want to admit it, of course.

  50. 50.

    Brickley Paiste

    Didn’t the Sheriff or someone say that Kraft was not the biggest name?

    So, who else? Who’s next?

  51. 51.

    Brickley Paiste

    @Jay:

    It is impossible to be an “ethical user” of sex services given the power disparity between the person paying and the person being used. If the sex worker’s participation was truly voluntary, there would be no need for payment.

  52. 52.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Jay: I basically agree, and I’d put it this way. Johns can choose to look for the red flags if they care about being ethical patrons of sex work, and avoid (or, better still, report) places that display them.

    If they don’t, then at best they don’t care. Which means they don’t care about slavery and human trafficking. I’m not going to equate that to directly trafficking or enslaving people, but they are directly perpetuating the system that results in those things happening with their patronage.

    And yes, it’s sexual assault. Some of these assaults may be committed out of ignorance, but I suspect in most cases, it’s wilful ignorance, and in any case, ignorance is no defence against the law. (This may be a controversial statement, but sexual assaults can – and, indeed, sometimes do – occur out of ignorance when perpetrators misunderstand what constitutes consent. In fact, an ex-girlfriend, as she described it to me, was a survivor of exactly this type of assault before we dated, and it caused her trauma for at least a decade. This is one reason educating people about consent can reduce the rates of sexual assault.) If people are choosing not to observe the conditions the sex workers they patronise are operating in, that’s on them. It’s a deliberate choice. They may be trying to insulate themselves from guilt over their actions by making it, but it doesn’t make them any less complicit.

    There are plenty of sex workers who enjoy their work and/or its benefits, who want to keep doing it, and who are essentially victimised by our approach to criminalising it – they are, for instance, much more reluctant to report assaults by clients because of the at best murky legal status of their work. I fully support legalising and strictly regulating it to ensure they are able to do their work from a position of better legal security. (Ethical johns may also be less reluctant to report signs of trafficking to the appropriate authorities if they have no reason to believe they’ll be prosecuted for patronising sex workers.)

    At the same time, I also fully support throwing the book at organisations who traffic sex workers and those who patronise them. I don’t care how much of a pretence of ignorance their johns put up. Ignorance is no excuse.

  53. 53.

    Tenar Arha

    @Anne Laurie: I also think he was trying to avoid dating, another girlfriend and child, and their subsequent publicity. So instead he went for relative anonymity, and now appears both thoroughly horrible and stupid.

    And I’m betting his kids are thinking that if he simply dated a woman closer to his own age, none of this would be happening at all. And then the harm he caused these women. (Unless his kids decide to disown him, I know how inescapable & bad the next holidays will be).

  54. 54.

    Ohio Mom

    @(((CassandraLeo))): It says a lot that Johns are only very rarely named. Obviously they are harder to catch than the sex workers but still.

    What would it be like if they were listed in the paper or highlighted on the evening news? And people saw that they were their neighbor or co-worker or sister-in-law’s brother? We are regularly shown photos of bank robbers, hit-and-run drivers, drug dealers and the like.

    One can argue that the law should be changed but as of the moment, they are law-breakers that we shelter from consequences. And that is a contradiction in terms. Else, shelter the sex workers from consequences as well.

  55. 55.

    Ohio Mom

    @Tenar Arha: I don’t know anything about this guy, never heard of him, but how can you assume he was avoiding dating? He could have been patronizing sex workers throughout his marriage.

    I have to say, this thread has been an education. I never knew how johns knew how to find their next “fix” and now I know, look for the strip malls. This really is a full-service blog.

  56. 56.

    MagdaInBlack

    This isn’t about not wanting to date or any high minded thought process.

    This is a man who could easily “order” any type of woman he wished, through some high-end “escort service”, discreetly delivered to his door, and he chose to drive to a sleazy massage parlor instead.
    He was looking for something specific and he knew where to find it.
    As to whether he knew the situation of the women: he didn’t care.

  57. 57.

    James E Powell

    Who believes that Kraft went there all alone? Who has the kind of savvy insider special access info to speculate who might have gone with?

    Whenever big shots are caught in situations like this, it always turns out that a fairly large number of people were fully aware of it but chose not to say anything because why mess with your access to the good stuff?

  58. 58.

    SenyorDave

    Here’s my solution. This is one time when I say let the perp buy his way out of the crime (and I’m assuming he’s guilty because the cops would cut him every possible break since he is a rich, white connected dude). Force him to sell the Patriots and make him donate the entire $3.8 billion (estimated value from Forbes magazine as of Sep, 2018) to women’s causes. And force him to do 1,000 hours community service in a women’s shelter. For that he gets a pass. Otherwise let him go to jail as an example.

  59. 59.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Ohio Mom: Agreed; the double standard is obvious and horrifying. On the whole, though, I think a nuanced approach is necessary when dealing with johns. The ones who patronise places like this absolutely should be raked over the coals. The ones who actually make an effort to avoid these places should be left alone, as should sex workers. We don’t need even more of a reason for people to be afraid to report suspected human traffickers.

    @Brickley Paiste: By this logic, no one can consent to sex work. Get the fuck out of here with that shit. There are high-priced escorts who make more in a weekend than I make in two months. Granted, I’m working part-time right now as I attend school, but the idea that there’s always a power disparity between sex workers and their clients is as unfounded as the idea that no one wants to do sex work.

    Some people do sex work because, shockingly, they like having a lot of sex and don’t really care who they have it with. I know that to puritans like you, that’s difficult to imagine, but some sex workers consider it a privilege to be able to earn a living doing something they’d happily do anyway.

    And yes, there are also people doing sex work who are largely doing it because of economic circumstances, but the same thing is true for very nearly every job on the planet. Are you proposing to outlaw retail as well? Food service? Waiting tables while you’re looking for work as an actor in Los Angeles is so common that it’s a movie cliché. By your logic, I didn’t “consent” to stocking bookshelves and answering customers’ questions for seven years because I was only doing it for the paycheck, but I don’t see you proposing to outlaw bookstores. And by your logic George Clooney doesn’t “consent” to appearing in movies, because he accepts a paycheck for it! A big one! Your “logic” is self-refuting.

    The problem here isn’t intrinsic to sex work. The problem is rooted in how we structure our economy. There is almost always an imbalance between employers and employees. Attacking sex work doesn’t fix that. What fixes that is supporting workers’ rights across the board. And if you actually listen to sex workers, the majority of them are on board with making it legal, regulated, and above ground. If it were legal, they and their clients both would be far less afraid to report abuses or suspicions thereof, because they wouldn’t be opening themselves up to potential legal charges for doing so.

    Ordinarily I wouldn’t waste my time with you, but your post is representative of a fairly widespread attitude in society, and it’s incredibly condescending and detrimental to the cause of actual sex workers. But I must reiterate myself: Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

  60. 60.

    Immanentize

    @JMG:

    if something happened to my wife Alice I like to think I could take it, but the honest part of me says probably not.

    There is nothing but some type of insanity — however it manifests — after such a thing. Even when you can take it, you can’t.

  62. 62.

    Brickley Paiste

    By this logic, no one can consent to sex work. Get the fuck out of here with that shit. There are high-priced escorts who make more in a weekend than I make in two months.

    It’s telling that the very first point you make is not to address the issues of how disparate power invalidates the possibility of consent because consent is, by definition, freely given.

    The idea that an awesome amount of money does anything except prove the power differential disproves itself.

  63. 63.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Brickley Paiste: It’s telling that the only point you even deign to respond to is the very first point. The main point of my reply was that this power differential is not intrinsic to sex work. It is in fact imbued throughout our society. The fact that there are sex workers who make far more money than I do is in fact indicative of how widespread that power differential is. If you had any response to this, you would have provided it, but you are a puritan who would prefer to shame sex workers and their clients instead of actually addressing the power disparities that exist throughout our society.

    I could say more, but it’s obvious from your refusal to engage with of all but the first three sentences of my reply that you’re not actually interested in discussing this matter in good faith, and I’ve got more important things to do with my night. I have no time for people that refuse to engage honestly with interlocutors. Have a nice slice of pie.

  65. 65.

    Brickley Paiste

    .@(((CassandraLeo))):

    Why bother. The first point you made, which is presumably your strongest one unless your ignorance of rhetorical rules is as pronounced as it is of the realities of actual sex work, is so silly that it hardly merits a response?

    The inhumanity inherent is cheering the decisions of people who have no actual free will in our society does not enhance your credibility.

  66. 66.

    Tenar Arha

    @Shalimar: I didn’t realize that. Eww & wow the ex who had a kid isn’t the only girlfriend ?‍♀️

    @Ohio Mom: I’ll be honest, I never heard anything while Myra Kraft was alive about Bob Kraft being a philanderer. He could have hidden it, but the Jewish community of Boston is fairly tightly knit, and if he got around with anyone regularly it would have gotten out.

    So, yes, he could always have been a creep & a John, and kept it hidden relatively anonymously away from home. (It’s certain that as a widower he seems to feel free to act the fool).

  67. 67.

    J R in WV

    @Shalimar:

    Kraft has HAD a girlfriend, an actress in her 30s. There are numerous photos of them together at various events.

    Fixed that for you….

  68. 68.

    Jay

    @(((CassandraLeo))):

    Pasty Brick is a serial troll here, shit stirrer and incel.

    When he shows up it’s best to just name him and point him out, rather than trying to engage.

    Engaging is a waste of time and electrons because he just uses it for more trolling.

  70. 70.

    Brickley Paiste

    @Jay:

    I’m loving that the guy who travels from thread to thread trying to normalize the brutality the sex trade inflicts on the poor and the female (and it is almost all female) actually thinks that “incel” is an insult that a normal person would make.

  72. 72.

    Jay

    @Brickley Paiste:

    LMFAO at the stupid troll.

    You can’t even build a decent Strawman.

    You should stick to Sealioning until Cole bans your ass again.

    Your 2020 ratfucking isn’t starting off well.

    LMFAO

  73. 73.

    Brickley Paiste

    @Martin:

    When you do something you love and not for money it is called volunteering. And “to volunteer” means to do something of your own free will.

  74. 74.

    Ithink

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:

    He could be yet! They’re probably figuring just what the hell they can do and how severe it could possibly be given that the man has lead his team to an unprecedented six Super Bowl wins and rings for that overly-optimistic and cheatin Tom Brady. I’ve got nothing to add beyond that…this is just ridiculously wreckless for him and yet not entirely unexpected.

  75. 75.

    Brickley Paiste

    @Jay:

    I’ve never been banned from here, dumbass. I’ve switched computers a few times and always transfer over the data need onto a completely clean build without importing previous settings that may have gotten borked.

    And I went and looked up “sealioning”. The definition is, to me, less interesting than the fact that apparently it means that there is more than one person in the world who has time to worry about such things because if it were just one person, there wouldn’t be a word for it, right?

  77. 77.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @Jay: Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of his past shit-stirring (which was why I said “ordinarily I wouldn’t waste my time” etc.), but I did feel it was worth pointing out how stupid his logic was on this count, because he’s not the only one who holds it.

    @Martin: That was actually exactly what I was trying to drive at. I probably should’ve just said it in exactly those words.

  79. 79.

    akryan

    @MomSense: that’s where most of them are. it’s not like they would go without notice anywhere eventually, but strip malls are less public than areas with higher foot traffic. you have a customer base that doesn’t want to be recognized, and a strip mall is better for that. liquor store, dry cleaners, and low cost eateries. A lot of time an entire strip mall will have the same owners too, so the surrounding businesses aren’t going to raise issues. They are also less expensive, and attract less attention, to run a business out of than a big mall. There is a strip mall down the street from me that has exactly this same set-up. Booze, Asian Massage (literally it’s name), a dry cleaners, and some eateries and a bar (including a really good Pho place) all owned by the same people.

  80. 80.

    Ramalama

    @smintheus: Have you seen the article written by a tour guide at a plantation? She had to interact with Americans who were bloody clueless about slavery:

    One favorite: a 60-ish guy in a black tank top who, annoyed both at having to wait for a tour and at the fact that the next tour focused on slaves, came back at me with, “Yeah, well, Egyptians enslaved the Israelites, so I guess what goes around comes around!”

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