While everyone is correctly pointing out the terrible discrepancies in our criminal justice system, it is important to remember that Paul Manafort’s sentencing today is not the end of this story. Next week Manafort will appear before Judge Amy Berman Jackson in Federal district court in DC. It was Judge Jackson who ruled that Manafort had, in fact, lied, obstructed, and witness tampered in regard to the Special Counsel, his investigators, and his prosecutors post trial and conviction in her court. And it is Judge Jackson who will sentence Paul Manafort next week. Unlike Judge Ellis, who is a well known crank and who, in a properly functioning political system with two actually functional political parties concerned about the general welfare, the rule of law, and the common weal, would have been removed from the bench a long time ago, Judge Jackson is considered to be a jurist who takes her responsibilities seriously. Do not expect Judge Jackson to be lenient. And don’t expect her to ignore actual facts to state that Manafort had previously led a blameless life. Do expect her to hand down a sentence with teeth in it. It is entirely possible that Judge Ellis departed from the sentencing guidelines because he knew Judge Jackson wouldn’t. Doing something like that fits with his history of contrarianism masquerading as jurisprudence. Regardless, Paul Manafort will die in prison. And we should all be thankful for that.
Open thread!
debbie
You don’t think he’ll get a pardon?
Raven Onthill
We may hope.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: Even if he does, charges will be brought against him by the NY state Attorney General and the District Attorney in Manhattan.
plato
That’s some serious wishful thinking, dude.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
A Black guy caught with a bag of weed would have gotten more time. Shit.
MomSense
I hope you’re right because the Ellis sentence was a farce. I’m so angry. I work with people who have done much more time for far less.
Adam L Silverman
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Correct. Shamefully on all of us for allowing it to be done in our names so.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
I like it when federalism works for us for once.
Baud
One can hope that criminal justice reform will get a boost from this.
daryljfontaine
I mean, it looks like a ready-made plank for any Democratic candidate’s platform: tough on white-collar crime.
D
lamh36
no offense, but i’m not comforted about the hope/possibility of a 70 year old man possibly dying in prison after 14 years (the assumption is that he dies either by another inmates hand or old age?) as opposed to say a 34 year old being sentenced to 20-30 years or even life for less offense that 70 year old Paul Manafort.
Not comforting at all.
Adam L Silverman
Updated with the appropriate imagery up top.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Stayaets Raahtz!
Eolirin
@Adam L Silverman: Much improved, thank you.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: And getting rid of lifetime appointments for Federal judges.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: It isn’t meant to be comforting.
hilts
@soledadobrien
Black lady who voted accidentally got more time than Paul Manafort.
@AdamSerwer
They jailed 16 year Kalief Browder for three years over charges related to a stolen backpack.
@Rob_Flaherty
Two weeks ago a black Mississippi man was given 12 years in prison for possessing marijuana that he bought legally in Oregon
Miss Bianca
Boy, I hope you are right, Adam.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman: I’m definitely warm to the idea, but I don’t know if it really helps fix the problem of something like this happening. A new term limited judge can be just as awful as an old lifetime appointed judge.
lamh36
Adam L Silverman
Also, I don’t think the Special Counsel is going to be finishing any time soon:
Alan in Pa
That cat is super awesome!
All else is human based bullshit..
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: saying Manafort will STILL die in prison is mean to be what then?
seems to me it’s to say, yeah, this was a bum deal, but at least…
which is meant to be comforting…is it not?
Not trying to be a B-I-T-C-H about it, but IJS
Jim, Foolish Literalist
here’s some good, or at least amusing, news for anyone who missed it
I gotta think this is pure Lanny Davis (whose own lobbying career is pretty horrid, as I understand, but I’ll accept most co-belligerents these days)
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: True, but you don’t have to wait as long to replace them.
lamh36
Reason #99999999 why GOP are sticking with Chump
JGabriel
Adam L. Silverman @ Top:
Unfortunately, this is exactly the type of judge Mitch McConnell is filling the US judiciary with.
I am appalled and disgusted with this ruling. It’s sickening.
And I am heart-broken for our country and our democracy. While Berman Jackson may rule more justly when she sentences Manafort, it is clear that her type of jurisprudence will become rare in this country going forward – and the MAGAt-hatted, Fox News watching, non-just rulings from ‘judges’ like Ellis will only become increasingly more common as McConnell fills the federal bench with his ilk.
randal m sexton
@daryljfontaine: a very good point
Just Chuck
@lamh36: Manafort sold out this country. I’d be happy if he died immediately.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@lamh36: thought experiment, if the evil genie who gave trump this election had told McConnell and Ryan they could have tax cuts or judges, but not both, what would they have chosen, I think it would’ve been a split vote, then McConnell would have slit Ryan’s throat and said, “Judges”
JaySinWA
@Adam L Silverman: I thought he was planning to leave the rest of the homework to DAs as an “exercise to the reader”. And boy is he dumping a lot of reading material on them. He might just bankrupt Stone with the legal fees to find the ponies in that document dump though.
Jeffro
@daryljfontaine:
…followed by the second plank: en masse pardoning of any/all non-violent drug crime offenders. Okay, any/all weed offenses. Seriously, just put ’em all in a database* and throw the switch on Day 2
*or use the one they’re already in…or whatever…
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: It was meant to be a response to everyone freaking out that he was getting off lightly. Not all the sentencing is done. He’ll get a lot more next week in DC. And then he’ll face prosecution in NY. That’s the point of the post.
cmorenc
@Adam L Silverman:
The proper solution would be to term-limit federal judges (including SCOTUS justices) to a substantial, but less than lifetime appointment, e.g. 20 years, and NOT make the position elective or in any way vulnerable to political intervention, short of impeachment for criminal activity. The founding fathers had the right general idea to insulate the federal judiciary from political meddling as best they could – the part they got wrong was doing so by lifetime appointments rather than merely by giving them lengthy, but term-limited (and non-renewable) appointments of e.g. 20 years. They understood in doing so that some hacks would slip in, but hoped that a substantial and strategic enough bulk of the appointments would be on nonpartisan, non-ideological merit that the system would work far better than elected judges/justices.
notoriousJRT
@Adam L Silverman: Not a double jeopardy issue for NY state prosecutions? I hope you are right, Adam. If anyone ever deserved to do the time, it is Paul J. Manafort. He and Cohen are such glaring examples of the “quality” of individuals attacted to Trump (and the sort of souless greed monsters with which Trump surrounds himself). I weep from anger and sorrow alike.
Adam L Silverman
@cmorenc: Yep.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m good with this. Let Ellis be a rallying cry for the Democr…oh, who am I kidding but it’s worth a try. We’ll never (quite) match the RWNJs’ fervor for judicial appointments, but if we can get even a fraction of our side more motivated, pull in a few blessed ‘swing’ voters with this, then yeah, let’s add it to the list.
Raven
@Adam L Silverman: Forget it Jake. . .
Adam L Silverman
@notoriousJRT: No, because there were a lot of things that the Special Counsel did not charge him with involving tax evasion and other frauds that can be prosecuted in NY state and Manhattan where he committed these crimes. Also, the Attorney General for DC may get in on the action.
NotMax
What a sadistic way to put it, in the headline. Brutality is not your usual style.
Adam L Silverman
@Raven: It is what it is.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: Blunt is sometimes necessary.
Raven
@NotMax: Yea, this dickhead thought to too:
“That’s some serious wishful thinking, dude.”
JGabriel
cmorenc:
I think the founding fathers were a bit more cynical than that. I think they hoped – planned, really – that the hacks on each side would be balanced by hacks on the other side.
Republicans have broken and ruined that assumption by gaming the system to appoint a majority of the judges, and by developing a monopoly on partisan, ideological, judicial hacks.
West of the Rockies
@Adam L Silverman:
Plus, he appears to be a rapidly and badly aging 70. Judge could have given him 100 years; Manafort would still be dead in fifteen.
Actually, maybe Paulie can hope to see freedom in his late 80s, only to see infirmity and misery diminish that hope.
hilts
@JGabriel: @Jeffro:
This makes it all the more imperative that Democrats flip the Senate in 2020 along with beating Trump’s fat totalitarian ass.
Yes to this and also getting rid of that goddamn Electoral College.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I smiled when I saw it too. I love when they sue one another. Although- anyone who doesn’t get the money up front when working for the Trump family is…not getting paid. But Cohen probably didn’t do any real work anyway, so it’s still enjoyable.
I was thinking today the Trump Family hires in the federal government are the first Trump Family hires who don’t have to sue to get paid.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@cmorenc: Good idea and good luck amending the Constitution to make it happen.
lamh36
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: agreed
Lapassionara
It was the “otherwise blameless life” comment that just seemed so clueless and wrong, given the testimony at the hearing. How do citizens keep putting up with the injustices doled out by the courts, when some judges are so unjudgelike?
Aleta
Scott Hechinger @ScottHech
Reposted from thread below:
Also from Scott Hechinger:
notoriousJRT
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks. I will hold on to the hope tha Manfort gets a much deserved keelhauling at the hands of the state of NY.
Ruckus
@cmorenc:
Do remember when the founders did that the average life span was much less. That was your term limits. But the average life span has gone up considerably and people with decent health care can last a lot longer than average.
trollhattan
@Adam L Silverman:
Holy cow, 2.2M. A case of printer paper is 20k sheets, so Rog is gonna need a bigger boat.
plato
Raven
@Ruckus: Here’s hopin!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: It’s 2k sheets per case*, he’s gonna need a much, much bigger boat.
*When you work in litigation support, you know these numbers(that’s for letter size).
plato
Searcher
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m fairly certain that if push came to shove you could get a 5-4 ruling out of the current Court that capital gains taxes are unconstitutional.
Adam L Silverman
@trollhattan: I’d just be happy if they made him wear pants.
https://twitter.com/ZackBornstein/status/1103727096361213952
The Dangerman
For these crimes, Manafort was probably never going to do more than 2 years anyway (he likely gets a pardon early on 1/20/21, along with a shitload of other people).
As for state crimes, we shall see. I expect Manafort dies in prison (or dies early out of it from some form of violence).
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman:
Wait, is that a thing now? Did anyone inform Cole or Baud?
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I found the tweet because Cole retweeted it. Just be glad I posted the link instead of embedding it.
Aleta
Dan B
Just looked at Joe My God blog post about Manafort’s sentence. 400 comments (of outrage) already. Pretty good for a top tier gay blog. The usual count is 90 comments in an hour. 400 is a good sign of the level of outrage.
Ohio Mom
@JGabriel: Maybe also the founding fathers were thinking in terms of shorter lifespans on average?
ETA: I see that Ruckus is a faster typist than I am.
Kay
@Lapassionara:
Most citizens don’t come before them, so no one really knows the extent of the horror. Sometimes jurors are horrified, though. That’s happened here, where they were really shaken because the judge was bonkers and blatantly biased or just crazy as a loon. NOT what they expected.
lamh36
Once again, we are living a in a Chappelle Show Skit.
“In an alternate universe, drug dealer Tron Carter and a white businessman experience the justice system in very different ways.”
https://youtu.be/HeOVbeh2yr0
trollhattan
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
My bad, it’s 10k sheets: 20 reams/case, 500 sheets/ream. 20k pages/case if double-sided.
The Dangerman
@Adam L Silverman:
Damn, shouldn’t that come with a warning or something (brain bleach coupon, etc.)? I didn’t know they made male thongs (maybe he borrowed from his wife).
donnah
I think, speaking for myself, that today’s verdict was just another slap in the face of justice. It’s another case of Trump’s “side” getting a win instead of a truly rotten character having to pay for his crimes. I am at the point now where I am losing hope that Mueller’s report will make any difference. I’m just burned out of hope.
So I do wish Manafort would die in prison and I don’t feel the least bit guilty for wishing it. I’m sick of the bad guys winning.
Adam L Silverman
@Aleta: Oh good, EmptyWheel has now invented math. I don’t know how much longer I could have gone on without it.
Adam L Silverman
@The Dangerman: the “make him wear pants” wasn’t warning enough?
Ohio Mom
@Adam L Silverman: Sorry to be a party pooper but I’ve read it is a photoshop. Wrong shaped head for one thing.
But it is easy to imagine that Stone would sport a thong, isn’t it?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: It’s 2,000 pages per a bankers box(letter size), I believe it is 1,800 legal size.
Adam L Silverman
@Ohio Mom: Or less.
daryljfontaine
@trollhattan:
Mueller to Stone: “Dear Roger, I. :clap: HAVE. :clap: THE. :clap: RECEIPTS. :clap:”
D
Kay
“Packing the courts” is starting to look better and better, huh? :)
MJS
I know this is ridiculously optimistic, but Paul Manafort is in jail. He will be there for at least 4 more years. He will probably get more time next week. His time in prison, and his money, will be spent fighting charges from the SDNY. His life will suck, especially in comparison to what it used to be. I agree it’s outrageous, and unfair, but if someone told me 2 years ago that this would be the outcome for Manafort, I’d have taken it. The tide on this shit is turning, however slowly.
trollhattan
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I’m talkin’ raw materials, not stuff wut done been printed, reviewed, marked up, stuffed in banker boxes (2.25 cu ft ea) and shipped off to Iron Mountain. What the folks in repro deal with.
A Ghost To Most
I see even Adam couldn’t calm the mob..
The Moar You Know had it right.
Hyphen-Americans are only interested in the grievances of their fellow hyphen-Americans. Tribes will destroy America.
I’d rather hang with Americans. FIDO.
You can go back to your pointless snarling now.
trollhattan
@daryljfontaine:
Heh. Rog knows he’s toast and at this point is pondering doing a Ken Lay after he’s convicted. I doubt the closets at Club Fed are sufficiently large.
Lapassionara
@Kay: that’s good to know. But I am just bereft at what I am seeing daily in the courts.
Kay
It’s catching on!
Now we just need 50 more. 59, technically, I guess.
MJS
@donnah: Not being convicted would have been “winning”. Hearing “You are hereby sentenced to time served” would have been “winning”. 4 years in prison may not be nearly enough, but it’s not “winning”.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
That’s what I was just thinking. These tweets are very powerful.
Aleta
@Adam L Silverman: Why the sarcasm toward that point? Popehat and Wheeler add to tonight’s discussion on the internet that, even if we could assume the maximum possible sentence next week, the total sentence for the two will still be less than the minimum recommended for this one.
Outrage today is justified. It’s not the same as freaking out. We all hope for the best later, but nothing is certain til it happens. This blog is a good place to react to a bad ruling.
* Laurence Tribe @tribelaw
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: The largest box of paper from Office Depot is 5k pages, standard box is 2k.
schrodingers_cat
What other blogs do people find insightful. I think I need to diversify my online diet.
Pete Downunder
Here in the land downunder judges at all levels including the High Court (our Supreme Court) must retire at 70. They get full pension if they have served 10 years so most are appointed when under 60. They are appointed by the government of the day (either state or federal) and govt is usually guided by bar association recommendations so we get few real nut jobs or extremists.
Adam L Silverman
@Aleta: Popehat is actually an attorney, a former Federal prosecutor now doing defense work in fact. EmptyWheel has a PhD in English literature.
lamh36
@A Ghost To Most:
https://media1.tenor.com/images/5ec4d6f738796b0d3f631861e4516bc9/tenor.gif?itemid=9980425
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
I think tweets have taken over from blogs. The problem is that I have no intention of tweeting myself, so I don’t get to participate in the conversation. But I regularly read the tweets of Asha Rangappa, Jon Zal, Kyle Griffin, Adam Parkhomenko, and Mrs. Betty Bowers (most of whom I was led to by comments here).
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
For example, I just read this on Asha Rangappa:
Brickley Paiste
@Ohio Mom:
That’s just not true, though. Those who reached adulthood lived about as long as we do now.
Juju
Didn’t Wesley Snipes get sentenced to three years for some misdemeanor tax evasion? I wonder why he got almost as much time as Manafort for lesser crimes? Hmmmm.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
Gin & Tonic
@?BillinGlendaleCA: This is what we consider a standard box.
oldgold
@Adam L Silverman:
I concede emptywheel is often too weedy and lacks a strong legal background, but in covering this matter, all things considered, she has substantially added to the discussion.
Gin & Tonic
@Pete Downunder: Yeah, but you have like 12 types of poisonous spiders.
Another Scott
@Ohio Mom: Infant mortality was a huge thing back then.
Franklin: 84
Adams: 90
Jefferson: 83
Jay: 83
Madison: 85
Etc.
I agree that lifetime appointments to the federal courts are another feature of our system that needs to be revised. (But elected judges are another abomination.)
Cheers,
Scott.
HeleninEire
I am seething MAD. That plus I’m +3 means I should get the hell off the internet. Yeah fuck it.
Tonight we have White Boy Josh Marshall trying to convince us that 4 years is a lot. He tells us we only think it’s not because all the other sentences in America before this were way too much. Thank you for playing Josh and where have you been the last 50 years?
When I was new in the workforce (30? years ago) someone started “Bring your daughter to work day” because women were not represented in the workforce. The SHIT HIT THE FAN. “Oh, my stars” said all the White Boys. “What about the boys??” You know; all those boys who have been neglected in the workforce. And now it’s “Bring your children to work day”
It’s the exact same as what happened with Black Lives Matter. All of a sudden all the White Boys are offended. “All lives matter” they said. And they were full of shit. Only when THEY were excluded did they bitch.
The Midnight Lurker
I’d prefer a fire.
Jay
@Gin & Tonic:
It wasn’t a boast, it was a suggestion for judicial reform.
And there’s way more than 12.
plato
Adam L Silverman
@Juju: Correct. And it is a puzzlement!
Adam L Silverman
@oldgold: I’m not going back down this rabbit hole with anyone. I’m just going to end with this discussion I had with my Mom last week:
The Mominator: I’ll be home early from synagogue this week.
Me: Why?
The Mominator: They’re having a talk on what’s going on in the Middle East.
Me: The GI doctor who is tied to AIPAC?
The Mominator: Yes, which is why I’m not staying after services.
Me: Since the GI doctor is going to give another talk about the Middle East, do you think the rabbis would be interested in having me give a talk about colorectal cancer?
The Mominator: Eyes roll loud enough to be heard in Australia.
End scene.
NotMax
As we’re peripherally discussing the setting aside of guideline, let us remember that the supposed inability to indict a sitting president is also a guideline.
Just now on O’Donnell’s show, one of the jurors in the Manafort case actually said she had voted for Dolt 45, would do so again, and that when she voted (word for word) “there were no Russians at the polls” so therefore no influence.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: Are you implying that John Adams killed 90 babies? I knew I shouldn’t have slept through early American history.
Mnemosyne
“Until he was arrested for murder, Ted Bundy had lived an otherwise blameless life!”
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Be careful what you ask for.
;)
Adam L Silverman
@The Midnight Lurker: Honestly, it is more likely to be a shiv as a result of a contract originating somewhere in a former Soviet state.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: Welcome to my TedTalk: The Duodenom: The Secret Weapon of the Gastrointestinal System…
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: So it’s A-OK to buy an election, just don’t show up at the polls.
Skepticat
@JGabriel:
This. And this and the hideously painful stories of totally irrational sentences for “normal” people are driving me to a very strong drink in a very short time.
JR
@JGabriel: I think we give the founders a little too much credit. They deserve plenty, but it’s worth mentioning that Thomas Jefferson, for example, was pretty ardent supporter of the French Revolution, which was happening contemporaneously with the ratification of the Constitution.
Pete Downunder
@Gin & Tonic: Yeah, and also of the 10 deadliest snakes in the world we have all 10. All so the deadliest jelly fish, crocs, sharks…..
Omnes Omnibus
@HeleninEire:
Are you really arguing that the American justice system doesn’t overcharge defendants and then impose draconian sentences on those who are convicted? You just came back from living in an EU country; you should know better.
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
Oleg ain’t getting his $19 million back, may be he’ll settle for a pound of flesh.
JR
@Brickley Paiste: That’s not actually true, either. Infectious disease was a big deal in the pre-antibiotic era. Here’s a good way to visualize that data (England only, but it can probably be generalized to the west).
Yutsano
@Pete Downunder: There isn’t anything in the Constitution that would keep us from enacting something similar now. That’s all a matter of statute. Same as number of justices on the Court. It’s definitely the branch where Congress has the most wiggle room to mess with it.
Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
No, she’s pointing out that he’s a moron.
NotMax
@JR
Like the Articles of Confederation, it looked good on paper.
;)
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: The only way an attempt isn’t made on Manafort is because he’s going to a Federal minimum security prison and not a SuperMax or a place like Rikers in the NY state system. If he was going to a prison like that, they’d have to keep him in solitary for his own protection. They may still have to.
Jay
@Yutsano:
And, it can also start at the State level.
The Midnight Lurker
@schrodingers_cat:
I like Juanita Jean’s – The World’s Most Dangerous Beauty Salon for all things Texas. I love Shower Cap – the man can turn a phrase. Brad DeLong’s Grasping Reality for economics. Informed Comment – Juan (the other) Cole’s website is a must for all things Middle East and Asia. Brad’s Blog is excellent for voter fraud issues. Digby, Emptywheel, Driftglass, Daily Kos, Buzzflash, and Crooks and Liars are all excellent.
Oh… and there’s a really weird one I like called Balloon Jizz or something.
Lyrebird
@Baud:
This, THIS, one hundred times this!!!
Can we archive the video of Mr. Stone’s arrest, Judge Jackson agreeing that Mr. Manafort could come to court in a suit, etc., and just say okay from now on, anyone suspected of a crime, this is the new minimum standard for how they should be treated? PRETTY PLEASE?
Sigh.
Back to reality, but seriously, from your lips to the FSM’s ears, Baud!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JR: to say nothing of that whole problematic relationship with his wife’s sister and their children…
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
They will. Theres lots of Bratsva in Federal Minimum.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: I’m sure.
HeleninEire
@Omnes Omnibus: No. I am arguing that Josh is way too late with his argument. Did you read my other examples?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@The Midnight Lurker: To make things more confusing, Juan Cole’s given name is John R. Cole.
Adam L Silverman
I’m just now getting to the interview that O’Donnell did with the Manafort juror who is a big supporter of the President. That woman is dumb as a stump.
NotMax
@The Midnight Lurker
Jeeze, haven’t been to Crooks and Liars in years.
Back when I was actively blogging and also guest blogging at someone else’s place, several of my posts at the latter made it to the ‘daily highlight’ (or whatever it was called) section at C&L.
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: You never see him and Cole together. Coincidence? I think not…
Even more coincidence: I’ve written for Juan Cole’s site.
Aleta
@Adam L Silverman: Yet he believed that quoting her added something relevant.
Omnes Omnibus
@HeleninEire: Yes, I did.
Juju
@Adam L Silverman: I’m baffled.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Rikers is a City facility, not State. Manafort won’t end up there.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Fun fact: the first Black man to be elected to California’s state legislature was Jefferson’s great-grandson:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Madison_Roberts
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Reality is pretzel-shaped in her world, ain’t it?
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: That wasn’t my point and you know it. And if he’s prosecuted by the Manhattan DA, as has been reported, he might.
HeleninEire
@Omnes Omnibus: I think you and I agree. Maybe it’s in the semantics.
ETA: Please stop telling me what I should know better.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: She is what she is.
The Midnight Lurker
@Gin & Tonic: What about Plum Island? Can we send Manafort there?
Jay
@HeleninEire:
“Tonight we have White Boy Josh Marshall trying to convince us that 4 years is a lot. He tells us we only think it’s not because all the other sentences in America before this were way too much. Thank you for playing Josh and where have you been the last 50 years?”
Can you point me to this?
Gin & Tonic
@The Midnight Lurker: That facility has been closed, IIRC.
HeleninEire
@Jay: On his Twitter. I don’t know how to link.
Omnes Omnibus
@HeleninEire:
Got it. Obviously I made a bad assumption.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: Juan Cole and overlapped for a year at UCLA my senior year.
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: This much coincidence takes a lot of planning!
Aleta
@The Midnight Lurker:
How about the Farallones ?
NotMax
@HeleninEire
Spoke today with Mom, living practically within spitting distance of you, who said it’s been really, really cold and there’s too much ice on the streets and sidewalks to venture out. How you holding up?
HeleninEire
@NotMax: I’m fine. Brought my former next neighbor (now across the street from me) groceries. She’s 78 amd fell down last week.
Where is your Mom? Can I bring her something?
NotMax
@HeleninEire
Thanks for asking. She’s cool (no pun intended).
NotoriousJRT
@Lapassionara: Seems like fertile ground for a Twitter meme: John Wilkes Booth: other than the incident at the Ford’s Theater, an otherwise blameless life.
The Midnight Lurker
Nah! Sharks won’t eat Manafort – professional courtesy.
I got it! We’ll get the French to reopen Bagne de Cayenne!
Just One More Canuck
@Adam L Silverman: now that’s one weird trick
different-church-lady
@Adam L Silverman: Stone promptly publishes all of it on his website…
Adam L Silverman
@different-church-lady: Instagram.
chopper
@Aleta:
exactly. i don’t see what’s wrong with what she wrote. so she isn’t a lawyer, neither are any of the FPers here but they’re still opining on this issue.
popehat thinks she made a really good point. what’s the problem again?
Brickley Paiste
@JR:
Huh. TIL.
Aleta
*
Kay
What a weirdly specific and narrow denial. By the end of this they’re going to be saying “there is no evidence we worked with Vladimir Putin, personally”.
The Trump Administration would love if they could do this:
They’d extend it to include Fox News anchors.
Jay
@HeleninEire:
We are quick to outrage.
Josh Marshall’s twitter feed is 99% ripping on the Judge, over the sentence and the sentenceing statement,
1% retweeting and agreeing with another Twitteratii that Federal Sentencing Guidelines are severe,
Aleta
Amir Khalid
@Adam L Silverman:
I don’t think I’ve ever seen Juan Cole discuss pets, misplaced condiments, or doing household chores au naturel.
dogwood
@Aleta:
He would have been convicted on all counts but for a single hold-out. I suspect the MAGA juror on LOD is the same woman I saw after the trial. She’s a real idiot. Loves Trump., but she wasn’t the hold-out juror.
NotoriousJRT
@NotMax:
That was SO bad. Lawrence had high praise for a nitwit who made like a broken clock when confronted by overwhelming evidence. Time I’ll never get back.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Think of that, there was a bigger idiot on that jury, and Manafort was still convicted on all but one count
@NotoriousJRT: I’m glad I skipped it. Did O’Donnell dig into her trump support at all? I guess one segment with a rando doesn’t leave much time to figure out how she says “It’s just gotten too hard to be white in this country!”
Jay
So ReThugs are creating fake “local” digital “newspapers” to further Fauxify fake news,
https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/03/04/activists-setup-local-news-sites/#_ga=2.131229580.260106883.1551797726-1088718101.1535999858
SFAW
@HeleninEire:
I must be reading the worng Josh Marshall, because I don’t see anything like that on his twitter thing, nor at TPM. Josh talked about Manafort hitting the jackpot, about how Ellis made it clear from the start that he wasn’t going to do much to Manafort, and that Ellis did a “vast downward revision from the sentencing guidelines.”
What/where am I missing?
Raven Onthill
Sarah Kendzior, probably through gritted teeth.
Jay
@SFAW:
One entry,
https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1103817434786680832
But we are quick to outrage these days.
Lyrebird
@lamh36: Yet another perfect gif, pronounced however you prefer.
Here are some that show my own messy thoughts.
Seems like the closer we get to convictions of Trump Cartel members, the more the sh-t flingers fling their sh-t, and it seems to be affecting everyone else’s nerves.
Peace…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Raven Onthill: Kendzior is seeing much more positive reactions than I am.
In any case, what solution does she propose? We be mad louder?
SFAW
@Jay:
Thanks for the link. It does not appear to be on his Twitter page (or whatever they call it). On the other hand, I’m not aware of all Twitter traditions, i.e., I’m far from an “expert level” user.
That being said: balancing that one comment against the other 20 (more or less) where he makes it clear he thought the sentence was a joke, I’m thinking Josh is not where fire should be directed.
Aleta
@chopper: Now that you mention it, John himself might secretly be one of those Englishy computer-wise communicator types who read things.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve always had the impression that she thinks we are doomed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve never read her stuff, just seen her on Joy Reid’s show from time to time. She strikes me as smart and interesting, but the idea that people are putting a happy face on this verdict is nonsense.
Jay
@SFAW:
There is so much shit coming down the shitfunnel every day, that many are skim reading, reading out of context, or just getting triggered.
There’s also a lot of ratfucking and shit stirring going on, and old wounds and injuries.
eg Omar?
I just try to stay calm and read on.
Debbie(Aussie)
@Jay:
I see what you did there ?
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus: Kendzior was trained as an anthropologist, and went from studying the rise of authoritarianism in the former Soviet Union to studying the rise of Republican authoritarianism in the Midwest. This may have somewhat depressed her estimates on the chances of America surviving the current moment…
Jay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
There is no legal or contractual requirement for the people who report injustice to also propose solutions.
Jay
@Anne Laurie:
Yup.
Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
Lifetime Federalist Judges,……..
dogwood
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Nope. He was convicted on 8 counts, and 10 counts were disregarded. Eleven jurors including the nitwit voted guilty on 18 counts.
Onmes Omnibus
@Jay: And….?
It’s not like the US hasn’t had shitty judges before.
Jay
@Onmes Omnibus:
Well, you’ve got a huge crapload more. Something like 3/5 now. Closer to 3.5/5 by September. At all levels. Gonna be quite a bit harder to recover the Republic when most of the judges are against it.
Raven Onthill
We’re going to be a generation cleaning up the mess Trump and the Republicans leave behind, if not a century.
SRW1
Target as bigly hugh as a barn door if judge Jacksone feels like commenting on judge Ellis’ crankery without commenting on it in any way shape or form.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jay:
Citation?
Omnes Omnibus
@Raven Onthill:
I tend to be an optimist, but this is probably true.
Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/magazine/trump-remaking-courts-judiciary.amp.html
Omnes Omnibus
@Jay: That doesn’t support your claim.
tybee
@The Midnight Lurker: i laughed.
Central Planning
@trollhattan: a case is 5k sheets which makes your calculation even bigger (former printing geek here)
Matt McIrvin
@Omnes Omnibus: I think Kendzior wants us to understand that none of this will work and we’re going to lose, so we can better emotionally prepare for the long period of suffering under an authoritarian government that we’re going to endure.
Ohio Mom
@SFAW: Josh Marshall has an extremely dry sense of humor/sarcasm/irony. As a result, he can be easy to misinterpret.
I think the same can be said sometimes of Atrios, though he tries harder to make sure he’s not misunderstood.
Raven Onthill
@Matt McIrvin: she said early on that we need to act, the faster there better. I don’t think she’s changed her view, but she worries that the longer this goes on the more entreched Trump and the Republicans become.
A Ghost To Most
@lamh36:
There’s a difference between being woke, and being an asshole to your roommates.
I’m gonna do like the rest of you fools, and take care of my own. It’s obvious you don’t want to help.
Adam Geffen
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m glad I attend a progressive Synagogue and have not had to deal with medical doctors giving foreign policy / history / etc talks.
Also, thank you for your welcome message from a few days ago.
They are about to close the airplane door. Heading back home to Detroit. :)