Guys, please feel free to weigh in too (like I could stop you!), but I’m primarily interested in hearing from the women in this community on the following question: How would you feel if the Democratic Party’s nominee in 2020 is a man?
We all want a qualified candidate. We all want someone who can beat Trump. We want a candidate whose ideas appeal to us, someone capable of taking on the herculean task of undoing the damage wrought by the clown in the White House. Blah blah blah.
But I admit I will be disappointed if the party nominates another dude. As an American woman who isn’t a stupid Republican, I feel like we’ve not only waited long enough, we’ve been screwed out of what we rightfully won.
I didn’t always feel this strongly about breaking the glass ceiling. In 2008, I backed Obama over Clinton – a bit too fiercely at times.
I remember arguing with my mom about it, saying stuff like, “I don’t vote based on genitalia,” which in hindsight strikes me as a snotty rejoinder that is almost as clueless and cringey as when people claim, “I don’t see color.” (The fuck you don’t!) Representation matters, damn it.
Mom patiently explained that after two centuries of men running things, it was important to her to see a qualified woman have a shot at the job. She and Hillary Clinton were about the same age, so generational affinity may have played a role too. But my mom said more than once she really wanted to see a woman elected president in her lifetime. Sadly, she didn’t.
Looking back, I don’t think either of us was wrong in 2008. Clinton would have made a fine president, and Obama was a fine president. After the primary, my mom became a fan and voted for Obama twice.
But a dozen years later, having raised a daughter to adulthood myself, having suffered through the nauseating spectacle of the 2016 campaign and borne the daily degradation of a smirking misogynist in the White House for two-plus years, I understand where my mom was coming from a lot better.
What got me thinking about this was a report I read earlier that said Biden is almost certainly going to run, which would make him and Sanders the instant frontrunners. Now, I like Biden, and I know polls this early don’t mean shit. But when I read the sentence, I thought, “Great. Two old white dudes. Fuck that!”
If Biden wins the nomination, I’ll vote for him, obviously. I’ll vote for Bernie in the general if he’s the nominee, and I can’t stand the cantankerous coot. But in the primary, I get to weigh other factors. Femaleness was a factor for me last time, but it’s an even more so in this primary, and no apologies for that.
It’s not the only factor. I’d gladly vote for a good man like Mayor Pete or Beto over a crackpot woman like Tulsi Gabbard. I want a competent person who generally shares my values in the White House, and I want us to win.
But it’s more important to me than ever to break that glass ceiling, especially after looking at that leering orange pustule in the White House for two years. And since we have several capable women in the race who would make a good president, I want one of them to win, damn it.
So yeah, I’ll be disappointed if the Democratic Party nominates a man. Maybe even bitterly so. Representation matters. I’m not saying it’s our turn. But it kinda is. What do you think?
schrodingers_cat
I want a D to win, it would be nice if it is a woman but it is not necessary.
T regime wants to shut down all the overseas USCIS offices. He wants to end all immigration. Asylum seekers are just the beginning. They play lip service to skilled immigration over family but that is a ploy. This administration has not done one single thing that has helped skilled immigrants but has taken several to inconvenience them so that they just give up and leave. Self-deport in the R parlance.
ETA: I don’t really care if our nominee is a woman. T should not win again is my only concern.
SealDeal
Lady Jackal and constant lurker raising her hand here:
I’m not concerned about gender this election cycle. Whichever candidate has the best chance of wresting the WH from the Republicans is the most important thing IMO.
Baud
I don’t see sex.
(Had to.)
Damien
Considering that the only reason that we aren’t talking about President Clinton (THREE MILLION MORE FUCKING VOTES!!!) is because of a total black swan event, I think it’s time for a woman to lead more than ever. I am firmly behind Kamala Harris, even this early on, and I think that the idea that we might nominate yet another old white man is truly stupid on an epic scale.
Not to mention the crime bill crap that Biden actually helped write and pass in his career managed to damage an amazingly qualified woman who was only First Lady during its passage.
And fuck Bernie Sanders.
Momentary
Ideally I want black women to choose the nominee. And if their choice is a woman then that’s great, but I trust them to know who to choose. Even if it isn’t a woman, I feel a bit soothed by having so many women in the race right now, so it still feels like we are making progress on that front, whatever happens.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I’m a straight, Protestant white guy. But I’m going to weigh in all the same ’cause it’s my party, too, and I’ll opine if I want to, opine if I want to! You would opine too, if it happened to you!
Sorry about that… Anyway. I’d be happy to see Pete Buttigieg nominated for vice president, but I think we need to nominate a woman. Women and minorities are the heart of the Democratic Party today, and I think our nominees need to reflect that. Harris would be my first choice. Minority, woman, from somewhere other than the northeast or midwest. I think Buttiegieg, as a gay man would be a good complement to all that.
JohnB
I really hope to be voting for a Democratic woman in 2020. I’ll vote Democratic no matter what the gender though. I just think it high time a woman got elected and I want our party to do it.
Baud
@Damien:
Fixed.
judyinsd
I would prefer an equally qualified woman over a man, but not a woman who is not as qualified as a man who might run in the primary against her. Since there are several very qualified woman currently running, I think there is a good chance that option 1 will be in play.
Waynski
Man here. I would like to see a woman, but more than anything, I want to beat Trump. I’d vote for a chimpanzee, if it would get this corrupt creep out of the White House.
Auntie Anne
Betty – I am more or less where you are. I was lukewarm on Hillary personally at first because of all the Clinton baggage until I watched all the misogynist crap thrown at her during the campaign. And it felt so darn right to pull the lever for a woman when it was time to vote. It’s time for the Democratic party to walk the walk and nominate a woman. If the party nominee is a man, I’ll do my best to see him elected, but I really want a woman to get the nomination. It is our turn.
trollhattan
Lemme ‘splain things…(JK!)
I can’t foresee any of the current male field making it through to the nomination and also can’t peg a “ringer” who could enter later to instant success. Too many solid, qualified women already in the running this go-round and yes, I do believe Hillary paved the path, broke the glass or whatever your prefered metaphor is. We’re owed this one and frankly, so is she.
It’s time, it will happen, she will win. Both popular and EC. Hopefully dragging the senate with her.
schrodingers_cat
Also, when I was I little, Mrs Gandhi was the Prime Minister of India. She was pretty horrible. Modi wishes he could be as horrible and effective as she was.
Betty
I was told by French folks in 1984 that the US would likely elect a woman President very soon. It’s been a long time coming. I certainly hope the country is ready now. Elizabeth Warren is on the older side, but she has impressed me with her energy and passion.
AdamK
I’m a man and I’m most excited about Harris.
Nicole
I want a woman. I fear if we don’t run a woman this time, that you and I won’t see a woman President in our lifetimes either, Betty (we’re close in age, you and I).
And I don’t feel a bit bad about saying I want a woman. How many thousands of years have women had to live through of men wanting a man in charge?
Obviously, I will vote for the nominee, whoever it is. But I want a woman.
Momentary
@schrodingers_cat: As a dual citizen I certainly take no joy in Theresa May being a woman.
Ohio Mom
Does not matter to me.
I still remember very clearly how thrilling it was the first time I saw a woman leading services as a Rabbi, the first time I saw a woman firefighter in action (the downtown street my friend and I were walking down just happened to have a building on fire, I didn’t seek it out), the first time I saw an African American woman Cincinnati police officer. They were electrifying moments. I could hardly believe what I was seeing (especially the AA woman cop in backwards Cincinnati).
My favorite 86 year old aunt is just like your mom was, she wanted to see a woman elected president and was heartbroken to see that probably won’t happen for her. That broke my heart a little in response.
I just want somebody who can win AND can clean up these domestic and foreign messes. If whoever it is can’t fix enough of what is wrong, we are on even worse trouble than we are now.
Do I think I know who that person might be? Not yet.
Zelma
I want the best candidate who can beat Trump. I would have liked to see a woman president before I leave this mortal coil and if a man wins in 2020, I probably won’t. (75 and facing a second go round with cancer.) But I will support whomever I think has the best chance of beating Trump. I have grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I’d like there to be a world for them.
Gex
I’d be fine with it, but honestly the only one that is remotely competitive for my nomination vote is Buttigieg.
Baud
@Zelma: Best wishes on your recovery.
Gelfling 545
I want a D president. I’d love it if it’s a woman but I’m for the Dem candidate, whosoever that may be. I’d probably be more rah-rah for a female but I won’t do or donate less if it’s a male.
Steeplejack
@Ohio Mom:
Happy birthday tomorrow!
Dorothy A. Winsor
If it’s a white guy, especially an old white guy, I will be pissed. I will feel cheated and less than a full citizen of my county, as usual. I can take a man of color if the VP nominee is a woman. But I am 71 years old and I am tired of waiting. You had your turn forever, white dudes.
I’m actually surprised by how strongly I feel.
RoonieRoo
As a woman, no, I don’t care one whit THIS election if it’s an old white dude. I just want Trump to lose so I just want someone that can beat him regardless of gender. That is my single motivating driver. Next one, yeah, I’ll care a lot more. Not this one though. I do have to say that I want Tulsi Gabbard to go down in flames as early as possible.
Josie
I just want us to figure out who can beat Trump and who has coattails to flip the senate. We desperately need to fix all that has been broken, and we can’t waste time and energy with arguments about gender.
Kristine
My initial reaction to the question was I don’t care, but the more I think about it, the more I realize I would be disappointed if the Dems failed to nominate a woman. Harris or Warren. At this point, Harris strikes me as better able to handle herself, but it’s early days.
I will all my spare strength to whoever is nominated because they are going to have to dodge shit from all directions. I’m afraid 2020 is going to make 2016 look like a walk in the park.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
a well spoken bar of soap would be better than Trump otherwise, see how it pans out. I think the idea candidate would be a Jerry Brown type. Someone who is not so flashy but gets to job done. That would really rub it in that voting Republican is stupid.
The other John Cole
@Baud: @Baud: UR doin’ it wrong.
Ohio Mom
@Steeplejack: I forgot that you remember but of course you do! You are the unofficial Balloon Juice census taker and archivist.
Many thanks. I’ll be 64. Old enough to start having to read the fine print on Medicare options.
Barbara
I don’t care. I will never get over 2016 but I will always keep my eyes on the prize.
tobie
News like this that the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals approved an Ohio bill blocking the allocation of public funds to Planned Parenthood is a stark reminder of just how much is at stake in this election. As much as I’d love to see a woman at the top of the ticket, I’m willing to sacrifice that if it looks like someone else has a chance of winning the White House and sweeping the Senate and the House. We won’t survive another four years of Trump and a Republican mal-administration.
Bill Arnold
Male. Don’t care. Current favorites are Harris and Warren, in that order. Still evaluating some of the others.
I like Harris’s deep gaze as deployed against Kavanaugh, and like Warren’s easy intellectualism. (And other things but these are highlights.)
Ohio Mom
@Zelma: Best wishes for successful treatment with minimal side effects. I did cancer once myself and two times seems extremely unfair. We’re pulling for you.
Mike in DC
There are 5 women running. Only one of them, Gabbard, is clearly unacceptable to me. The other 4 are all top notch in my view, though my preference is for Harris, with Warren a close second. I would be slightly disappointed to see a white guy at the top of the ticket this time. I’d even be a bit disappointed if a white guy was nominated for veep.
VeniceRiley
I’m a little mad even at the flood of men getting into this primary, tbh. I’ve had it. And that goes for the NY mayor and Obama too.
Pogonip
I would prefer that the Electoral College vote in the least objectionable candidate. That person’s race, sex, and hairdo are irrelevant to me—the job is U. S. President, not actor or model.
That rumbling sound you heard is poor old Martin Luther King turning in his grave at the very idea of selecting a preferred candidate by race or sex, rather than character.
tobie
@Zelma: So sorry to hear about your diagnosis. Good luck to you in your treatment. I hope the doctor’s are able to nip it in the bud. Sending you all good wishes.
joel hanes
answering a question you didn’t ask :
I think every single j Supreme Court nominee chosen by any Democratic president should be a woman, for approximately the next hundred years.
It wouldn’t come close to evening the score, but it’d be a start.
Patricia Kayden
As a Black Democratic immigrant woman, all I care about is for Trump to be defeated. I don’t care about the gender of the Democratic President. A woman would be nice as that would be historic but I don’t care about that right now. The Democratic candidates are all cool with me with the exception of Sanders and Gabbard. But I’d vote for either of them if they are the nominee.
Philbert
BC: this. As a white boomer cis male fully privileged fuckup, I’m for Harris. It’s past time.
MomSense
I think Margaret Thatcher is all the proof we need that being a woman isn’t the most important factor. I personally am supporting Kamala Harris but I will vote for Biden, Beto, Mayor Pete, Booker- whoever the Democratic nominee will be.
I pray to FSM we don’t have to vote for Gabbard or Sanders. I can’t stand either of them and think they would be completely unsuited for the presidency.
ulib
old white man here – totally agree
and Warren already has my vote
Dan B
At dinner on Sunday the women wanted Biden becsuse they were afraid a woman would lose to Trump. It didn’t seem to register that african american women would likely come out in droves for Harris and that people not being inspired to vote is a huge deal for Democrats. Glad to hear women here are nit afraid for Harris’ or Warren’s chances. The one idea was Biden / Abrams. It would position Abrams to run in 2024 as Biden would be getting very long in the tooth. Could a Biden / Harris ticket work? Seems like putting a nationally experienced and qualified woman second on the ticket seems wrong although Abrams has everything but the national experience. Thoughts?
Joy in FL
Ultimately, any Democrat.
But if I’m choosing a nominé, it will be no white man over the age of 60. Woman and/or person of color strongly preferred.
I am horrified daily by the cruelty of the current “administration.” Donald Trump and his enablers are responsible for generations of damage around the world.
And get rid of the electoral college.
Drunkenhausfrau
I would prefer a woman, but will vote blue no matter who. I want more women in House and Senate and governors and state legislators.
Baud
TBH, I’d prefer that to Bernie being the frontrunner by his lonesome. And I don’t think that status will last that long for either of them.
zhena gogolia
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Ooh, Harris-Buttigieg sounds good to me!
Icedfire
I would prefer a woman over a man to be the nominee, as long as both are well-qualified. Take a hike, Tulsi.
I would feel the same about a candidate of color, which is why I am rather supportive of Kamala Harris at this point.
Tangentially, as a cis gay white man I am aware that about 95% of the time I am afforded privilege that many Americans are denied, but I can’t deny that I feel a strong attachment towards Mayor Pete – I think it’s fair to call it analogous towards your feelings towards Hillary and the 2020 field, Betty.
Mike in NC
It is absolutely imperative that we nominate somebody who can evict Putin’s puppet.
If the idiot senator from Vermont isn’t slapped down quick and hard, he’ll almost certainly guarantee Fat Bastard gets four more years to crap on the Constitution.
debbie
Honestly, with all the crap going on in this country, gender isn’t near the top of my list. I apologize if that makes me a gender traitor.
Gretchen
I think the men in the running aren’t quite as good candidates as the women, but still worry that the misogynists will refuse to vote for her and make her less likely to win. I think both Sanders and Biden have too much baggage for them to win the general, and hope the attacks come out during the primary and knock them out. I’m glad Warren already released her taxes so she can say where are Bernie’s, here are mine. My hopes are Harris/Warren for pres with O’Rourke/Buttegieg for VP. I think O’Rourke could excite the youngs and at least some of the Bernie supporters.
satby
Considering how crushed I was by Hillary Clinton’s non-election, I’m not as determined for it to be a female nominee this time, though my preferences in order are Harris, Warren, and Buttigieg as VP or in the cabinet.
But I will burn shit down if it’s Wilmer.
Baud
@zhena gogolia: I have a hard time seeing Buttigieg as Veep because I think the nominee will try to select someone who has some experience dealing with Washington.
MJS
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m an old -ish white dude and I’ll be pissed too if we nominate someone like me. We need stark contrast, and neither Biden or Bernie provide that. They bring “he’s better than Trump”, but so does virtually everyone else on the planet.
Gretchen
@Dan B: I heard of a South Carolina poll among black women that favored Biden over Harris. They saw him as a third term for Obama
debbie
@Zelma:
Best of luck kicking the crap out of that cancer!
Ruckus
Old white male here.
I want a woman to win this race. I’d prefer a black woman. I’ve heard Stacey Abrams speak and I like what I hear. I like KH as well. It is well past time for a woman president. Very few of the 45 men that have been elected were worth a shit, most any of the women running would be better. But, and it’s a big, firm rounded but, I’ll vote for the right man as well, we really have one chance to get this done.
Martin
White guy here. I’m sick of white guys. Trump should usher in a 2 generation moratorium on white guys.
The Democratic Party belongs to black women at this moment. We’re marinating in excellent candidates. Time to get a new cultural perspective in the WH. Of course I want the most qualified candidate, but there’s no such thing. That’s the whole point of a representative democracy – nobody is qualified to represent someone who they have no experience with. And frequent elections were intended to put different voices in the leadership position.
stinger
I’m with Betty and Betty’s mom. Here’s what I wrote a week ago at the tail-end of a near-dead thread:
Having watched Mayor Pete’s CNN town hall, I’d be just fine with a Harris/Buttigieg ticket. But the memory of Sharon Gless and Tyne Dale and the shattered glass ceiling at the convention will stay with me to my dying day. It’s our turn. And with the bench of well-qualified female candidates (not so well-qualified as Hillary, but then no one ever has been) this time around, there’s no reason for one of them not to be our candidate.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ohio Mom:
“Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I’m 64”.
Raoul
I hope to be voting (again) for a woman for president. I hope fervently that she wins!
As a gay man it’d be nice to see any many forms of diversity on the ticket. But, yeah, winning is what matters. I’ll vote Dem no matter what, but I really, really, really don’t want two white men on the ticket. That would be an epic failure for our party.
satby
@Baud: I think dealing with the crazy Republicans in the Indiana legislature is good enough practice. Those folks are nutz.
Martin
@Gretchen: I’ll note that Obama didn’t poll well with black voters until very close to Iowa. It wasn’t that they didn’t like him, it’s that they don’t feel they have the luxury to vote for black candidate over defeating the GOP candidate. They are the most pragmatic voters in the country. Give ’em time.
Joe Falco
I’d want to see a trans POC become president with the most effective and humane administration in the history of this country just to rub it in all of the bigots and authoritarians’ faces. Also, to restore rule of law, faith in democracy, American prestige abroad, etc.
But anyhoo, yeah, let’s get a woman sitting in the Oval Office.
moonbat
I don’t feel like I have to choose between my gut and my head. I think the most qualified candidates in this primary race ARE women (Harris, Warren). Standard Disclaimer: I will vote for whomever is the nominee. But that said, I think it would be stupid of us as a party to stomp on the enthusiasm that got so many women energized, organized, and to the polls in 2018 by nominating an old white guy (Biden, Bernie — who by the way should not be running in our primary because he’s not even a bleeping Democrat!) or a young white guy with too little experience (Beto, Mayor Pete) no matter how appealing they are.
Ceci7
I’ll be very disappointed if the nominee is Biden or Sanders.
cckids
@satby:
This. He’s the one viable candidate (I don’t even count Gabbard, she’s going nowhere) that I really cannot say that I’d vote for in the general. I really don’t know that he’d be better than Trump. Maaayyybeee a bit less of an asshole, but more of a differently directed ass. Probably less of a criminal past. Certainly no less clueless about the reality of how the country works, apparently. I think he would be an unqualified disaster as a candidate and would most likely lose to Trump.
Ksmiami
@Baud: I think Biden /Harris with Biden acting as a bridge would be my ideal tbh. We have alliances and institutions that need massive attention and a placeholder who can shore these up with a highly active VP would be good for the present moment. I’m a woman and fought hard for Hillary
Nicole
@Zelma: I’m so sorry about the diagnosis. I was diagnosed with cancer a week before the 2016 election and I thought, “Well, at least I will live to see a woman President.” And a week later, “Well, fuck, I guess I don’t even get to have that.” Mine turned out to be early stage, and while it’s quite possible it’ll return, I’m hopeful I’ll maybe get to see 60, or, even better, 75. And I wish you successful treatment and getting to see 85 or 95. AND a woman President, too.
Betty Cracker
@Pogonip:
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
There’s always porn.
TaMara (HFG)
I really, really want a woman. And a woman of color. I want to know that we’ve come that far despite the stale cheeto’s reign.
That being said, I will vote for whatever D can stomp his ass back to the hole he crawled out of.
tobie
@Dan B: I could see the appeal of a Biden/Abrams ticket. I won’t vote for Warren in the primary unless it boils down to a choice between Warren and Sanders by the time the primaries come to my state, and even then it would be a tough choice. I might bag out of primary altogether.
grrljock
My ideal ticket is Youngish Non White Male / Youngish Non White Male 2020. e.g., Harris / Castro. Of the ones who are running, my current top three are Harris, Warren, and Gillibrand.
zhena gogolia
Haha, I just realized that the title says “Question for the Lady Jackals,” and a whole lot of dudes have weighed in.
Lyrebird
@Patricia Kayden:
I’m not quite there with the last part, maybe due to being a hothead, but otherwise, ditto.
I will give money to Andrew Yang because I want him talking about practical ways in addition to the Harris/Jayapal proposals to get us to more income security at the bottom of the heap. And because I think the mere idea of an entirely non-white ticket (Harris/Yang) could make wingnut heads explode, mwa ha ha.
I will campaign my tuches off even for a Booditch Judge – Chicken Cooper ticket if it comes down to that, though.
Love Warren, love Harris and think she’s more likely to win people over due to her greater ease with non-policy chit-chat. I will eagerly campaign for a future Pres. Booker! Yes I hate what some charter school groups are doing, but Forever President Obama’s education policy was not my fave either, and I would elect him again in half a heartbeat ten times over!
Okay enough spouting from me.
Ruckus
@Zelma:
Good luck in the good fight.
Kick cancer’s ass. Mom did, she out lived her daughter who couldn’t. Lasted over 40 years after she kicked it’s ass.
(So far I’m going on two years cancer free myself. I’m not letting it back in without a fight.)
BQuimby
Oh, it is SO time for a woman – but, of course, everything she does OR does not do will be harshly and swiftly and, probably, unfairly judged with large does of pure misogyny and judging comments about her gender/looks instead of her actions. She will have to be a million percent BETTER to even get some grudging acknowledgement from the flabby, old, white dudes we have be subjected to for all time. It is OUR turn to succeed, to screw up (but, quite honestly, I cannot imagine anyone doing worse than our current asshat). I definitely think there are some superior candidates so it is NOT as if we are voting on gender only.
Ohio Mom
@Dan B: For what it’s worth, I could see Biden and Abrams having better chemistry together than Biden/Harris.
If someone else gets the nomination, I’d like to see them promise to make Harris AG. She could right a lot of wrongs in that position.
zhena gogolia
@BQuimby:
So, Obama Redux.
Ruckus
@zhena gogolia:
She said she expected us to, did you think we wouldn’t?
Brachiator
I’m enjoying reading the comments. That’s all.
janesays
Definitely would prefer a woman to win the nomination, but in November 2020, I’ll be voting for whoever has the (D) beside their name. Even if it is Get Off My Lawn Sanders or (God help us all) Tulsi Gabbard.
Annie
I don’t care if the Democrats nominate a man or a woman. I want T**** out of the White House.
JPL
I haven’t read the rest of the comments yet, but I’d be okay if a female were the V.P. candidate. It’s just time. Truthfully, I am going to vote for whoever runs. If it’s the grifter from VT I’ll hold my nose.
CatFacts
I’d be fine with a male candidate under 60. I don’t want an older male candidate like Biden or Bernie. They’ve served well, but to me their time has passed. Harris is probably the candidate I’m most interested in right now though.
janesays
@Lyrebird: Sanders and Gabbard are both completely awful, but I don’t think there is any excuse for not voting for the Democrat next November, no matter how much you might dislike them. Neither one of those shitheads “deserves” our votes, but it ain’t about them, it’s about the existential threat to the Republic that a second Trump term poses. It’s about the United States Supreme Court. If you are not voting for the Democrat, you are helping Donald Trump’s chances of being re-elected, whether you intend to or not. I’ll never forgive the Bernie Bros who refused to vote for Clinton in 2016, and I’ll never forgive any other Democrat who refuses to vote for our nominee in 2020. No matter who the (D) nominee is, the alternative is irrefutably worse.
zhena gogolia
@Ruckus:
Oh, I missed that or read it too fast. I’m happy to hear everyone’s opinions, and we don’t enforce a gender binary on here anyway!
JPL
@Gretchen: So I’d be okay with Biden/Harris.
Mary G
@stinger: This. So much.
2016 still makes me nauseous and I am daily incandescent with rage with Twitler being in the Oval instead of Hillary. It MUST be a woman. For Hillary.
I could put in all the stuff about supporting whoever’s nominated, and I will, but it’s the difference between a chore and a crusade. I think that Betty’s mom, Dorothy and I remember how bad it used to be on a visceral level that younger people don’t experience.
kindness
I want to thank everyone for their reasoned and measured responses. I saw this when Betty first put it up and I wondered if this was going to go the way many FB comments go nowdays. Thankfully Jackals have more manners and charm than FB heathens.
I’m voting for which ever Democrat wins the primary, even if that is Bernie. And fuck you Bernie. Take your Bros to the lake house and keep ’em there.
TS (the original)
As long as it isn’t Wilmer or Biden – anyone else is fine.
debbie
@Dan B:
Uncle Joe is a great guy, but I don’t want him as a president. Let him campaign, let him mentor and promote, but please, our candidate has to be a looking-forward person. Look what Trump-style nostalgia has brought us.
Jeffro
@Baud:
I think you’re right. And I think the candidate that makes the most explicit, well-supported case for being the true heir to Obama and the Obama coalition, will end up winning the nom.
No matter who it is, we’re going to make history with this nominee and the strength of her/his victory in 2020. No more going backwards.
JimV
My preferred candidate by far is Elizabeth Warren, so yes, I will be very disappointed if the Democrats don’t nominate a woman. (There are some other good female candidates, but most of them seem a bit young to me. The three most important prerequisites for a leader, in my opinion are experience, experience, and experience.)
BruceFromOhio
This old white guy is sick and fucking tired of old white guys fucking shit up for everyone. Gaia-damned enough already! Get the living fuck out of the way and off the road and out of the fucking car and let someone the fuck else drive.
JPL
@Zelma: The asshole is going to be a one term president and when he leaves office he will be indicted. At least that is my gift to you. Keep fighting the good fight.
Juice Box
I like Harris and Warren best. The first is a better speaker, the second is the professorial type that Democrats often pick and go on to lose with. I hope I don’t have to vote for either near-eighty year-old (or Gabbard) in the general. The only 80 year-old who would get my vote, Jerry Brown, isn’t running. I hope that Abrams and O’Rourke choose to run for the senate as they would both be the most likely to flip those seats and POTUS isn’t really an entry level job.
TMinSJ
Speaking as a woman who cried herself to sleep when Donny Dipwad was declared the winner in 2016, gender is not my #1 filter.
I WILL NOT vote for a white man over 65 in the primary, but other than that I’m open.
Abrams is my #1, just waiting for her to declare so I can find her local Bay Area office and volunteer for her. After that, for me (for now) it’s Mayor Pete and then Warren. Mostly I want someone smart and sincere about their issues (and not a geriatric white man).
Pogonip
@kindness: What exactly are Bernie Bros?
Bobby Thomson
I would have no problem with Biden and Sanders winding up like Dean and Gephart.
Old Dan and Little Ann.
I’m a middle age white dude who is sick of white dudes. I also argue with my wife about Biden about 3x a week because she loves him. She’s convinced he’s the one with the best chance of winning in 2020. I will of course vote for anybody over the current orange douche.
Pogonip
@Betty Cracker: Get back to me on that after Trump’s second inauguration, which at this rate may well happen.
I hold firmly to Reverend King’s principle and will continue to do so. We are more than our privates.
VeniceRiley
@Dan B:
yeah this pisses me off no end. I mean, if a woman cannot beat trump this cycle, ffs, that essentially means NEVER A WOMAN. Because if one can’t win 2020, what chance does any woman have against a Republican man who is actually qualified and temperamentally suited for the job? Jesus’ liver on crackers! Kamala said we should simply not entertain that kind of conversation. She’s always been told “No, wait. Not now. Not your turn.” whatever. She ignores it and wins in landslides now. I trust her.
Having a woman veep to Biden will energize no one. It would be perceived as what it is: making a minority woman cape for the gaffe-prone white guy.
RSA
@JohnB:
I was going to add my thoughts, but when I came across your comment I realized it was everything I wanted to say.
Except maybe a speculation that people who insist, “No, we should ignore sex and race and age and background–we should just choose the most qualified candidate,” are most likely to be white men.
KBS
It’s going to hurt A LOT of the nominee isn’t a woman, and even more so if it ends up being an old straight white man. Harris and Warren are my early favorites, but I’ll vote blue no matter who.
eclare
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Come sit by me. So far Harris is my number one, but there is almost an eternity til Super Tuesday here.
JustRuss
I’m Obama’s age, and I don’t want another Old White Dude. Don’t necessarily want a woman, but I’m happy we have so any quality female candidates to choose from. I do wish Warren were a bit younger, but it’s not a deal-breaker.
geg6
I will vote for Lovey should she decide to run and can beat that mother fucker squatting in the Oval Office.
That said, I really, really want a ticket with a woman and a POC. I haven’t yet determined who I like and our primary is so late that I won’t have to decide until some of the field has been whittled down. I’ll watch and see who impressed me over the long term. I’ve watched Booker for at least a decade and I have liked him. I have a former student who’s dad was the mayor of Trenton and he really liked him, too. I respect his opinion a lot. I am finding that Harris is growing on me. But I don’t have a favorite yet. I do know who I don’t want. Bernie, Biden, Gabbard, Gillibrand…all off my list. I don’t know enough about Mayor Pete to have an opinion. The rest will have to show me why I should choose them. If it turns out that a woman is nominee, that’s great. But she has to beat that bastard. That’s all that matters.
cmorenc
I’ll gladly vote for the Democratic candidate in 2020 if she’s a woman – provided she isn’t too shrill. ::=)
/ ducks the flying bricks. (Lighten up, just kidding about the shrill part but not about gladly voting for Harris, Warren et. al. if she’s the nominee)
MoCA Ace
My preference FWIW
First and foremost a competent Democrat (Fuck you Bernie and that Starbucks guy… forgot his name already).
Bonus points for young (No Boomers please, so what? under 53?).
Bonus points for female.
Bonus points for person of color.
Olivia
I want so badly for a woman to be the nominee and I will be horribly disappointed if it isn’t a woman, but I will vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is. My daughter is 40+ and she also wants a woman nominee but she is sure that a woman can’t win. She thinks a woman for Vice President has a better chance.
Pogonip
Lovey’s got my vote!
JPL
@TMinSJ: If you don’t vote for the democrat, that’s a half vote for trump. Hold your nose and vote for the dem. One of my sons was in Cynthia McKinney’s district and I gave him the same advice.
(((CassandraLeo)))
Male-presenting albeit non-binary, FWIW. I feel this means I have some privileges women don’t and vice versa, so it probably gives me an unusual perspective. (Also, I’m autistic, which probably also gives me a seldom heard perspective on issues of privilege.)
Other things being equal (they never are), I’d prefer a woman. Among declared candidates, in fact, my top three are women (Harris, Warren, and Gillibrand; I think Harris has a slight edge as she seems to have the strongest political instincts, but I also appreciate Warren’s policy chops and Gillibrand’s pragmatism and willingness to swear in public, among other attributes from all three of them).
However, that being said, my #1 concern is beating Individual-1, and my #2 concern, not very far below that, is having acceptable policies and character. For this reason, there’s about a dozen people on the list whom I’d vote for over Gabbard, for instance.
I’ll also add that electing a woman isn’t the only glass ceiling we’ve yet to break. We haven’t yet elected an out queer person yet either, for instance, and there’s a plausible argument that queer people still have it worse than women in at least some ways. (James Buchanan’s sexuality was reportedly an open secret at the time, though, for all the good that did – he was still one of our worst presidents.) We do have a queer man (Mayor Pete) running this time, too, and I’ve been rather impressed by what I’ve seen from him so far.
Regardless, the most important thing for me is beating Individual-1, and the second most important is that our nominee stands for good policies. Non-male, non-white, queer, non-Christian, etc. would all be nice for representation, but they’re not my primary consideration.
TOP123
Middle aged white male. So I will just put out my $0.02, since this is shaping up to be an informative early informal poll.
A(anyone) B(ut) T(rump), of course.
Ideally a woman at the top, in the abstract, and luckily there are a number of excellent choices in the field.
My top three, woman or man, so far are Kamala, Beto, and Pete. My ideal choice so far is Harris for POTUS, with one of the others as Veep. Pete has a good story, great potential and ability to talk issues from what I’ve seen, and Beto is so good on the stump in person, having seen him up close here in TX. Those both seem important for the supporting partner. Plus, if TX goes blue…
Biden: thank you for your service to. the country, sir, and now please get out there barnstorming the country to help with House and Senate seats for your team.
The rest of the field, no strong opinions yet, though my TX pol friends here see a lot to like about Castro; but NO to Sanders and Gabbard unless they are the only option other than picking someone out of the stands. Plus, they can join Trump lobbying for Russia after the election.
Sorry, long two cents ;)
(Edited for slightly less muddled clarity)
J R in WV
@Ohio Mom:
64 makes you a sweet young girl in my book, being an election cycle older than that. I’m a Kamala Harris supporter right now, would support Warren, also, or Stacy Abrams, or… anyone but Gabbard or Sanders.
I worked my tail off for Hillary, calling into Ohio every night for weeks. The last couple of days, though, I was worn out, and highly suspicious of the media / Comey bullshit. I think I knew we were screwed by the Sunday before the actual election.
Anyway, here’s an old white guy hoping a non-white woman from CA get the nomination. Go Kamala!!!
My biggest problem with Sanders is that he is at least as big a Russian pawn, a Russian tool, as Trump is. And before that he was a Soviet tool, witness his “honeymoon” in Moscow many decades ago. Also a mean prick.
I will have a really hard time voting for Sanders if he somehow steals the nomination. I might write in Gene McCarthy, or Stacy Abrams, rather than ever vote for a Russian stooge.
eemom
EXCELLENT question.
I also was a fervent supporter of Obama against Hillary in 2008, and I frankly thought at the time that a lot of the “misogyny” accusers were full of shit.
I was a fervent supporter of Hillary in 2016, for all kinds of reasons, but not really because of her gender.
This time around, I HAVE been feeling like I don’t give a shit about anything but who’s the most likely to beat that reeking sack of orange shit…..but these last few days have given me pause. Specifically, it seems that for all the excitement we were seeing a few weeks ago about the four woman candidates, the moron media has abruptly swiveled their itty bitty attention spans to Biden and Beto 24/7.
Of course, the moron media is nowhere in the same time zone as the mindset of responsible Democratic voters, but we know to our sorrow that the fuller of shit they are, the more sway they will have over the mindset of the vast majority of John Q. Moron voters. So, it is a matter of some concern that the appearance of a white boy or two in the field automatically initiates a seismic change in their moron focus. That is what causes me to question my original approach.
Shantanu Saha
Since I’ll be voting in New Jersey, it might be over by the time I get to weigh in. But I won’t vote for a white cishet man if there is a woman not named Gabbard still viable in the race. My current preference is Gillibrand —Harris—Warren. If Warren were younger and not from a state with a current Republican governor, she might be higher up the list. After the women, I’d probably prefer Buttigieg over Castro, and both before Biden. I will grit my teeth to vote against Trump if Sanders is the nominee, but he’s not going to get a dime of support from me before the general campaign begins.
hueyplong
@Patricia Kayden: I am a white male and you have to go back to my grandfather to find an immigrant, but other than those demographic differences, I am Patricia Kayden’s twin on the issue of candidates.
It would pain me to vote for Wilmer but nothing can cause me to do anything that helps Trump.
Pogonip
Here’s another question: your choices are old white guy vs. non- or anti-feminist female candidate (of any race). Do you still vote for the woman? Why or why not?
I guess that would be 2 possible answers since a non-feminist female candidate and an anti-feminist female candidate could possibly inspire different choices, although if your overriding goal is a female President then any of the three, standard Dem, non-feminist, or anti-feminist would logically require a Yes vote. Anyway, there are probably focus groups asking that question right now. Respondents?
Fair Economist
I would not rule out somebody for their gender. Old is a negative but not an absolute. Harris is my favorite not because she is younger and female but because she is good. Biden and Sanders are low on my list primarily because I don’t think they are great choices in this field.
Jharp
Man here.
My vote in the primary will go to the candidate that has the best chance of beating Trump.
And my hope is it turns out to be one of the ladies.
Eljai
As many others here have stated, I will vote for the Democratic candidate in the general. However, as a jackal of the female persuasion, I’d like to see a woman nominee. Now I know a lot of people will say that you can’t have a two-woman ticket and I’m not here to debate the merits of that. I just want to say that if there were, say, a Warren-Harris or Harris-Abrams ticket, I’d be so fired up I’d quit my job and personally canvass every home in America.
Pogonip
@(((CassandraLeo))): My son’s autistic, too. You must have worked very hard on your verbal skills and it must have been quite difficult. Good on ya!
VeniceRiley
@Pogonip: Here is the answer in the form of a question: How many times have I seen this bs posited by a man? I do not have enough fingers and toes for it. You can probably find old focus from any agency about a zillion times on it if you want.
the question is: hey girls, are you stoopid about your rights? I can assure you that, living forever in an attacked vulnerable population makes any woman jackal here hyper-attuned to what the right choices are.
FelonyGovt
I’m closer to your Mom’s age, Betty, and I felt the way your Mom did about Hillary. I would really like to see a woman nominee, preferably a woman of color. But the most important thing is to get this band of crooks out of government, so I would vote for any Dem (even Bernie, who I can’t stand and is not even a Dem, if Hell froze over and he was the nominee)
Jay
Shirley Chisholm famously noted that over her career, she received far more resistance in politics for being a woman, than being a person of colour.
As all threads are “open”,
In the wake of the British MP’s killing May’s “NotReallyaDeal”, the EU says “no more Brexit Negotiations, We’re Done”.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1QT2QH?__twitter_impression=true
geg6
@Pogonip:
Do you mean in the general? As in, the woman is the GOPer and the old white man is the Dem? Easy peasy, if so. No question, the old white man. I’d never vote for a Republican ever again. Only did a few times, for John Heinz in the senate in the 80s and a few local pols who I know well enough to know they weren’t loons back in the 90s. But never since. And never will. Ever.
hervevillechaizelounge
White woman here—of course I’d like a female candidate, but the most important thing is having a candidate that can beat Trump.
I know I’m in the minority here but I don’t think Harris or Warren can beat Trump—misogyny runs deep and misogynoir even deeper.
“Pocahontas” will follow Warren to the grave and Harris’s affair with Willie Brown will sink her. I knew Hillary couldn’t win either—and when I see folks on here demanding a female nominee I die, because we’re about to do 2016 all over again.
A Good Woman
I want someone who can kick Cheetolini to the curb. That’s the key. However, I would prefer it be a woman. I like Harris and Warren, and I hope one of them is topping the ticket with a strategic choice for VP.
Uncle Joe is a comforting presence, but his role is as mentor. Third time is not necessarily the charm here. Wilmer needs to back off, he talks a lot but not much else.
However, usual disclaimer — will vote D regardless, even if I have to hold my nose.
Pogonip
@VeniceRiley: Didn’t realize everyone here was poor with no college degree. Some of them sound quite wealthy. Interesting info, thanks!
VeniceRiley
@hervevillechaizelounge: The only way to build on 2018 is to build on 2018, not backslide. That’s not going to cut it.
I’d add that it would be more effective if undecided to donate to your favorite house candidates as they’re also up in 2020, than some random vanity candidate who has zero shot of winning the primary.
Pogonip
@geg6: I thought the original question was about selecting a Democratic candidate, but my question could cover either/or.
I’d vote Lovey over the whole bunch of them.
In my state, oddly enough, your vote in the primary election, picking a candidate, matters much more than your vote in the Presidential election, because the electors are not required to abide by the whims of plebeian voters. (They usually do, I guess they’re nice guys, but they don’t have to.). In fact I remember frantic efforts to turn electors faithless to keep Trump out of office.
I think the electoral college is silly, myself, and in Pogonippia we would pick the president the way we pick people to fill every other office— person w/most votes wins.
sdhays
Man here, but my feeling is that we have so many impressive, qualified women to choose from this time around that it would be deeply disturbing if one of them wasn’t the nominee. I’m at the point that I’m not really paying attention to the men this time around. They would have to be Obama-level impressive to get my attention, and so far they aren’t.
Baud
@hervevillechaizelounge: Nothing is risk free, but take solace in the extraordinary amount of international effort plus the serendipity of the Comey ratfuck it took to defeat Hillary. We will be more aware and more energized in 2020.
J.
@?BillinGlendaleCA: If only Stormy Daniels would run…
Pogonip
@Pogonip: Not that there’d be many elections since I’d be absolute dictator. Maybe dogcatcher.
Although I do like the idea of electors solemnly convening to elect the dogcatchers…
Pogonip
@J.: ?
Gelfling 545
@Baud: Neither do I. I think it’s mostly name recognition at this stage.
namekarB
Grumpy Old Railroad Man here. If all governments were led by women, there would be a whole lot less spent on the military industrial complex and darn few wars, if any. When I vote, I look for 1) a Democrat then 2) a woman candidate.
We have over 200 years of men running this country. Time for change.
Omnes Omnibus
I will echo what I said last night. I think we need someone really charismatic this time around and the only two people who really seem to have that right now are Harris and O’Rourke. While a lot of people see Harris’s background as a prosecutor as a plus, it is the thing about her that I find most off putting (No, I don’t think she is a cop. I am just uncomfortable with the mindset exhibited by many prosecutors that I have known. I am keeping my mind open). O’Rourke, otoh, has a resume that looks a little too thin right now.
I want someone who, first, will beat Trump and, second, will do a good job.
jl
As a guy who thinks Warren would be the best purely on policy (which is what we need), and supporting her for now on that basis I personally think running some jerk guy is a bad idea. Screw those a-holes. Most of the time, they have screwed up the job for over 200 years now.
But, if Warren doesn’t get the nomination, ask again, I might change my mind.
zhena gogolia
@TOP123:
Excellent two cents.
guachi
My wife is not a lady jackal in that she’s not a hardcore political junkie like we are but I did ask her.
An exasperated “I don’t care” followed with “Is the person Donald Trump? No? Good.”
Jay
@hervevillechaizelounge:
Well before the Primaries are over, the MSM, the ReThugs and the Bernie Bro’s will have tagged every Democratic Party Cantidate with a “catchy” fauxrage “Emailz!!!” non-scandal that they will make stick by repeating “questions remain” 24/7.
zhena gogolia
@Shantanu Saha:
If Sanders is the nominee, we’re screwed.
Renie
I just want someone who will beat trump. I was hoping Hillary would be the first woman. I haven’t really decided on who I want to be nominated. Whoever it is I will vote for them. As a women in her 60s I guess I can say without being too ageist, I don’t want an old white guy.
J R in WV
@Pogonip:
When you asked “What’s a Bernie Bro?” up-thread, I knew right then that you are a troll. No one posting here doesn’t know the answer to that incredibly naive question.
Into the Pie Safe for you, whoever you are!!!!
zhena gogolia
@J.:
I’d vote for her too, against Trump. No problem.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV: Pogonip isn’t a troll. She has a huge chip on her shoulder, but she has commented here for years and not as a troll.
WaterGirl
charismatic
coattails
ability to raise tons of money
connects with people of color
connects with young people
connects with women
connects with independents, not just dems
wicked smart
someone with vision
willing to upset the status quo
not an old white guy
good on their feet
Emma
Want? Absolutely a woman. Accept? Anyone who can crush Trump.
Pogonip
I really don’t have the faintest idea what a Bernie Bro might be, and I guess JR in WV doesn’t either.
I see the term here—and only here—a lot. What is it? I’m guessing it’s a likely Sanders voter, he being the only candidate named Bernie but why is that a Bad Thing? (I guess that’s the way I should have phrased my question.).
J R in WV
@Renie:
I’m an old white guy and so far there are no old white guys that I would support. I would have a really hard time voting for Russian stooge Sanders, actually, as he will be as beholden to Putin as Trump is. Former Soviet stooge, now Russian stooge Sanders…
Kamala Harris is my current favorite. I don’t give a shit about Willie Brown, or whoever Kamala went out with in the long ago.
guachi
@Pogonip: I don’t buy it.
I just Googled “Bernie Bro” and the term even has a Wikipedia entry. If you see the term “only here” it’s likely you never read any political commentary of any kind.
zhena gogolia
@Pogonip:
It’s a bad thing because Bernie’s refusal to accept the outcome of the Democratic primaries in 2016 led to his supporters booing people all through the Democratic National Convention and was one of the major factors leading to the disaster we are all living through right now.
Pogonip
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m a Disgruntled-American. We’re a growing “ethnicity.” ?
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
Betty, you reflect my feelings exactly on this matter. I will be disappointed and I will be bitter if the nominee is not a woman. But I would vote for a bag of rocks if I thought it could defeat Trump.
Mike in Pasadena
I’d like to see a young, smart, articulate, woman walk all over the Pussy Grabber. (I’d also like to see an older, smart, articulate, woman do the same.)
Pogonip
@zhena gogolia: Thank you! That is a nice clear answer. I hope JR in WV sees it.
zhena gogolia
@J R in WV:
After Trump, I think they’d have a hard time making a lot of hay out of anybody’s affairs. At least I hope so.
I too am not going to say I’d vote for Bernie. I’d like to see his tax returns, and I’d like some assurance that he is not a Russian asset.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
okay, but in the Republican primary. I would really like to see her on a debate stage with Spanky McToadstool
LarryB
@Momentary: OT, but it is interesting that both female British PMs have been the worst kind of Tory motherf**kers. I was totally expecting Colin Powell to be the first AA president for the same reason: If politics are conservative, the rest doesn’t matter as much.
Pogonip
@zhena gogolia: If I may defend myself, I had no idea what happened at either convention in 2016. I no longer vote in primaries so I ignore the conventions. After they select their candidate, THEN I start paying attention and researching those people.
Bobby Thomson
@Omnes Omnibus: she sure is sealioning the shit out of the thread.
Bobby Thomson
@Pogonip: bullshit. Have some pie.
Baud
@Bobby Thomson:
I thought that was something you do with someone you love behind closed doors.
MisterForkbeard
As a male straight dude in his 30s, I’m definitely not the target of this thread. However, I really want Harris to win the nomination – it seems like she has the right chops for the job, though I already see her getting “Hillary’d” in social media while the media tries to ignore her. I also like Gillibrand and Warren, though Buttigieg and Inslee have been welcome surprises.
Honestly, either the top billing or VP slot should go to a woman. I would vastly prefer that Bernie not get the nomination, but if he does then I hope he chooses someone like Harris or Stacey Abrams as his running mate. That would do a lot of good for party-healing and get a lot of people who don’t trust Bernie back on board.
Tulsi Gabbard is pretty scary and I don’t want her anywhere near the nomination. Should the unforeseeable happen and she gets it, I’ll vote for her. As bad as she is on some things, she’s still VASTLY better than Trump and would get some relatively decent Court nominees, amongst other things.
@Pogonip: I don’t even know what “anti-feminist” means, really. Especially not in this context. I vote on politics in general, not on gender – though I’d really like to see a woman win the presidency, it doesn’t mean one HAS to. If we’re looking at a contest of someone like Inslee or Biden vs. Sarah Palin, of course I’m voting for the old white guy.
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
I know Pogonip has been around a lot, for a long time, but today I feel rubbed the wrong way big time by her. I’ll get over it I guess. But darn!
FredW
I’ll answer for She Who Must Be Obeyed as She is not much online.
She was hoping for Sherrod Brown. I said I hope he stays in the Senate and was leaning towards Harris (but very much open at this point). Her thoughts were the opposite — that Harris was better staying in the Senate (BTW, we live in CA).
JDM
@Baud:
Chin up. Things’ll turn around for you. :)
banditqueen
In 2020 I would like to have a woman president with a stronger dem Senate and Nancy Smash leading the House. The dem debates will bring out and hone some great policies and plans, but repairing the broken shambles of a country that the Beast of 1600 St and his minions will have left will take a lot of experience, focus and energy. No matter what, only a dem can do it.
The Pale Scot
@Drunkenhausfrau:
Oh Shit, I love your tag,
I don’t get out much
West of the Rockies
Guy here.
I hope it is Harris. I’m not a fan of KG from N.Y. Harris and Pete, Castro, Beto, Abrahms…
Denali
Will vote for any sentient being over he who shall not be named. Democrats need to find the one who will win. I hope it will be a woman, and am intrigued by the idea of an Warren/Beto ticket. If what’s his name is still around, this will be an absolutely crucial election. We also need to take the Senate in a blue tsunami.
Pogonip
@guachi: You got it. This site used to be a lot more about Cole’s entertaining life, and I’m hoping it’ll get back to that, so I keep reading.
If you missed the mop and mustard stories, your life is not complete. I love Cole. He’s a great writer and a wonderful person. I want him to start writing again and I want him to find what he seeks and be happy. For that matter, she may not believe it, but I want Betty Cracker to be happy. She (and a lot of her fans) are eating themselves up with hatred, and I worry about her drinking. (No, I am not her mom.). She used to tell great stories, too. Now it’s all Trump, Trump, Trump and White guy, White guy, White guy and hate, hate, hate. It’s not good for anybody.
A while ago I did get annoyed with what I thought was privileged-American-woman whining, and snarled at them, rather like a mom. (“You think you are so oppressed here? Then move out and pay your own bills!”). However, I am reliably informed above that readers are not privileged—although it sounds like a whole lot of them work in nice dry clean offices—that they are, in fact, poor with no college degree—maybe they CLEAN the nice dry clean offices?—so that was wrong of me to snarl
Denali
I will vote for any sentient being against he who shall not be named. The Democrats need to find the person who will beat what’s his name. I am intrigued by the idea of a Warren/Beto ticket, but am slightly nervous about Warren’s leftist perception. We are living in truly perilous times and need to find the candidate who inspires the confidence of the voters.
Pogonip
@Baud: Me too. ?. Have a fish.
Mnemosyne
I would prefer a woman, personally, or at least a gay man. Straight white men have had their time in the sun for quite a while now.
I would ink my vote for Biden in the general election, but I wouldn’t be excited about it.
J R in WV
@Pogonip:
Well, you would be wrong again. Bernie Bros are misogynist and anti-Democratic supporters of Senator Bernard Sanders.
They won’t vote for any real Democratic candidate, are fixed upon Sanders, who is not a member of the Democratic party, and the Bros will not support any other person running against the Republican party.
For you to say you don’t know this is for you to admit you haven’t been here since before the last Democratic National Convention, when the Bernie Bros made fools of themselves and Senator Sanders in front of the whole nation.
Some of them are even female misogynists, many of them are tools of the Russian Federation, like Senator Sanders, others are just dumb-asses. I’m not sure where you fall on that spectrum. The Pie Safe is still open for business…
Ladyraxterinok
@RoonieRoo: I really don’t see Biden or Bernie as realistic choices this time.
Mostly they are too old. I don’t think either one understands today’s realities. Eg, I don’t believe either one understands where the new dem women in Congress are coming from. They formed their view of the world when I did–I’m 79.
But I as a woman I come from a different world than they do with social, psychological, financial constraints they did not have. I believe I understand the world of these young women represetatives in ways they cannot.
Pelosi, Warren, Hillary–altho they’re approximately the same generation as Biden and Bernie they are able to identify with and relate to these young women in ways the 2 men cannot. See for example how Pelosi is able to work with and guide them!!
Long way to say Biden and Bernie are unacceptable to me and not the right leader for the country in the 21st century–their day is past.
But, hey if either wins the primary, he’s got my vote and what energy I have.
Jay
@zhena gogolia:
IOKIARDI
There is one set of standards in the MSM/Punditocracy for a Democrat,
There is no set of standards in the MSM/punditocracy for ReThugs.
When Dianne Feinstein was a little brisque with the Sunshine Kids is was a “yoouge deal” for half a week until they ginned up a fauxsemitism attack on Omar.
When Yurtle the Turtle had the Sunshine Kids arrested, ( the very next day), it got 3 column inches in a couple of rags for an hour or so.
Pogonip
@MisterForkbeard: Well, in the 21st century, anti-feminist would certainly mean pro-life, and probably against “identity politics.”
Identity politics is scary. They had it in Rwanda and the Balkans. I hate to see even the earliest stirrings of it here, but that horse done left the barn.
wonkie
I don’t care. I just hope we can get past the people who are still fighting over the HRC/Bernie primary. I think it is a mistake to get emotionally involved in choices like this. Literally millions of people will participate in the choice/ The ones that piss me off are the ones who think they are somehow entitled to get their way.
Ohio Mom
@J R in WV: Pogonip has been here a long time, though she did take a sabbatical for a good long while. I missed her because I feel a kinship with every mom of an autistic and was glad to see her return.
I’m thinking her sabbatical was during the worst of the fuming about Sanders, before the short reprieve from him we had between November 2016 and now. Or maybe it wasn’t a reprieve from Bernie, we’ve just been overwhelmed with the Orange Menance.
Another Scott
Man here. ;-)
I want a strong team, led by someone who will inspire people. We need to do much more than defeat Donnie. We need to flip the Senate and state houses and all the rest. One election won’t do it, all, but it will help a great deal.
Based on the calendar:
February 3: Iowa caucusFebruary 11: New Hampshire primary
February 22: Nevada caucus
February 29: South Carolina primary
March 3: Super Tuesday (Alabama, California, Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, and Virginia primaries; Democrats Abroad preference vote through March 10)
March 7: Louisiana primary
March 10: Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, and Ohio primaries
March 17: Arizona, Florida, and Illinois primaries
To be determined: Colorado primary (March 3, 10 or 17)
April 7: Wisconsin primary
April 28: Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island primaries
May 5: Indiana primary
May 12: West Virginia primary
May 19: Arkansas, Kentucky, and Oregon primaries
June 2: Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico, and South Dakota primaries[206]
June 7: Puerto Rico primary
June 16: District of Columbia primary
Things may be all but over the morning of March 4, and the early big races would seem to favor Harris (California especially). The convention is mid July. That’s roughly 4 months, and time to build a strong team or weaken one via infighting, etc.
One thing I worried about when Hillary won (as I was sure she would) that she wouldn’t have a House and Senate that was willing to work with her. We know McConnell only wants to obstruct. We have to take that power out of his hands and work to flip every possible seat, no matter who is on top of the ticket.
With all that said, it’s long past time that we had a woman president.
Cheers,
Scott.
Pogonip
@J R in WV: I was reading but probably skipped the dreaded BB appellation at the time, or found something more interesting. Today it caught my eye so I asked. I am the Elephant’s Child and ask about many things as they catch my attention. (My mom said my first word was not “Mom” but “Why?”)
If it’s to be perennial politics, here’s a suggestion for all of you. Vote! Should I stay or go? If you vote me off the island, it’s easy enough to ban me (and I think Betty should get to swing the hammer). If you vote to keep me on the island, why, we’ll have more fun. Go for it! Vote!
Sab
You know how really badly run corporations eventually hire their first woman as CEO when things have gone so far off the rails that competent men won’t take the job?
I really don’t want the first woman president to be the person who has to try to pick up the pieces after Trump’s crew has smashed up the government. The job is going to be pretty much impossible.
MomSense
@wonkie:
I am interested in not basing our strategy for 2020 on incorrect assertions about what happened in 2016, however.
rk
I’ve been seriously annoyed with men since 2016. They chose a perverted twit over a qualified woman. Then the me too movement and how these jackasses bend over backwards to protect the patriarchy. I never cared that Hillary should be President because she was a woman. She was just obviously more qualified. But 2016 felt like a giant Fuck you from the men. I was just thinking today that I would only vote for a woman in the democratic primaries, either Warren or Harris. It helps that none of the men can hold a candle to Harris or Warren. Bernie can die somewhere. Having said that I’ve not completely lost my mind. I will not vote for the closeted right winger Tulsi. If the nominee is a man, so be it. I’ll vote for for the guy again as I’ve done all my life. And probably throw something at the wall. However much I want a woman, I never lose sight of the ultimate goal, which is to destroy republicans and fix the country.
mousebumples
@Mnemosyne:
I’m a 30-something professional woman, and I’ve said for awhile now, that I’m hoping to vote for someone that isn’t a straight white guy in November. Whether that means Kamala or Corey or Pete or whomever else, I’m on board. I’m with everyone else here – I will vote for whomever the Dems nominate against Trump, even if it’s a non-preferred candidate like Bernie. But I’m hoping for someone with a “minority” background of some fashion – though, arguably, women aren’t really a minority. (We’re just super under-represented in political representation.)
I haven’t really picked favorites, in large part because as I live in Wisconsin, the field will be winnowed down quite a bit before I get to vote in my primary. Early races (and how candidates and their campaigns respond) can change perceptions, and fast. Then again, I was on the Obama bandwagon early in 2008 (even got his autograph when I was at a primary debate!), so maybe someone will change my current “wait and see” perspective …
B.B.A.
Cis het white male here. My oft-repeated view is if the Democrats never nominate someone like me for office again, it’ll be a good start.
wonkie
.That was not a shot at Bernie supporters, BTW. Many HRC supporters were just as entitled and obsessive and rude. A pox on both.
Ohio Mom
@Another Scott: It’s an eye-opener to see the entire primary schedule — last time around, it felt to me as if Obama’s whole second term was eclipsed by preparations for 2016.
Now it feels like, Egads, we hardly have any time to get going on the most important election ever!
MomSense
@Sab:
This is the pattern for electing Democrats since Nixon. We only get elected after Republican Presidents turn it all to shit.
Pogonip
@Ohio Mom: Autism is one of the worst handicaps, isn’t it? Especially in a society that places such a high priority on verbal skills.
Redshift
My mansplaining opinion is that I hope we nominate a woman this time, and I’ll be a little disappointed if we don’t, especially now that it’s not just hypothetical and we have several strong candidates running. I think the one thing we got out of the 2016 shitshow is that the idea of a woman president is something a lot of people can imagine being a reality, instead of being a “maybe someday” thing.
The thing about “electability” is that everyone from pundits on down is really bad at judging who’s more electable. I understand and share the nervousness about having a candidate who might, by their identity, lose any support, and know full well that Americans still have really screwed up ideas about having women in charge. (For example, I’m convinced that Justin Fairfax would not have won his election as a black man in Virginia if the GOP hadn’t nominated a woman – his margin was much tighter than the other two.) But I think there’s now less of that among the potential Dem voters, and enthusiasm will balance it out.
And for the pettiest possible argument in favor, seeing Trump get beaten by a woman would be unbelievably delicious.
O. Felix Culpa
@Pogonip:
Your words in Cheryl Rofer’s thread were ugly, hateful, and ignorant. You know nothing about our backgrounds and where we came from. Apparently only your tribulations are real and worthy of consideration. You made dismissive, nasty assumptions and accusations. So yes, you were wrong and apparently still are.
Pogonip
@mousebumples: Now, THAT’S a good pseudonym! I wish I’d thought of it.
Mnemosyne
@Pogonip:
We’ve had “identity politics” causing problems in the US for a couple of centuries now.
http://blog.ac-versailles.fr/englishac/public/Images_expo_segreg/White_teenagers_with_signs.jpg
Steve in the ATL
@Pogonip: not “pro-life”, just anti-abortion
Kayla Rudbek
On a cold-blooded level, whoever can win as the Democratic candidate. On a personal level, Harris, Warren, Abrams as my top three choices, Beto or Buttegieg as the second tier or VP.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia:
You will get neither.
That’s OK, I know I won’t either, and if by some horrible set of events he becomes the Democratic nominee, I will write in Mickey Mouse. There, I’ve said it. Same with Gabbard.
Mnemosyne
@Sab:
Yeah, okay, I can see that. One of the reasons Obama got elected was to clean up W’s mess, and white people resented that so much that they stuck us with Trump.
MisterForkbeard
@Pogonip:
This… is not what identity politics is.
Especially given the observation from people more educated than myself that “Identity politics” in the United States is basically just noting that minorities have concerns and that the default position was for White Males. The problem is that our default politics has been “White Male Identity Politics” for most of our history.
What you’re talking about is extent nationalism and racism, and that’s not what “identity politics” is about. What you’re talking about is the stuff happening on the right, where they’ve otherized immigrants to the point where baby jails are apparently acceptable.
alan in pa.
I don’t care if the POTUS is a Martian, or an algorithm, I just want to live out my life in a nice society.
TS (the original)
@Pogonip:
Unless you force quotas – minorities remain minorities. Never has this been more obvious than in the number of women in the Australian parliament – the party that made a rule of 50% of winnable seats must have women nominees – vs the party that said – chose the best person for the job. When white men are selecting, the best person is always a white man. And the right wing party has negligible women – as in the USA.
The little-known experiment that shows quotas can change more than politics
guachi
Whether the nominee is a man or a woman, black or white, straight or gay the Democratic party, both in its elected officials and voters, will be combinations of all of these and more.
So what matters most to me is if the candidate is capable of working with, appealing to, showing consideration for all of the differences. The candidate can’t possibly *be* all of these things so I don’t expect them to nor will I be upset if the candidate isn’t any one particular arrangement of characteristics.
Mnemosyne
@Gin & Tonic:
I honestly don’t see either Sanders or Gabbard making it through the primary. They’re spoilers and nothing more.
MisterForkbeard
@Mnemosyne: It also really impeded what Obama could do. With a good economy and nation that wasn’t falling apart due to Republican mismanagement, he could have done a lot more.
As it was, he had to spend a ton of time and capital on getting things back to normal, or at least not sucking so much. And that hurt him and Democrats badly in 2010, 2014 and 2016.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Gin & Tonic: not to get the cart too far ahead of the horse (and now I will do exactly that), but if it looks like Wilmer is leading the Dem nomination, I think Kasich or someone like him will run as an indy, bankrolled by Bloomberg and god knows who else
ETA: @Mnemosyne: I don’t worry about Gabbard, but with such a huge field, all other predictions are hard to make, especially about the future
jl
@Jay: Some of the corporate media needs Dems in their faces saying what Max Rose (D-NY) said to their faces during the Omar flap: they shouldn’t be acting like a PR branch of the Republican Party.
WaterGirl
@Baud: that may explain why you don’t
havesee sex.sorry, i couldn’t help myself.
KG
Lady Jackal here (decade-long daily lurker). Have been called a feminazi in the past.
ALL that matters in 2020 is winning – decisively. Otherwise our democracy is dead. I’ve stopped caring about demographics, except with respect to maximizing GOTV.
I was Team Harris until I talked to my (female, POC) friend who worked with her in the CA AG office and CANNOT STAND her for a variety of reasons. Since then, I’ve been meh about everyone until I heard Mayor Pete the other day. He’s impressed me the most, by far. Electable, though? Probably not.
CaseyL
I am for the best candidate, regardless of gender.
I like Kamala Harris. I am increasingly impressed with Mayor Pete.
The rest of the field doesn’t do much for me.
But I will absolutely work for whoever the nominee turns out to be.
Jay
“Her answer surprised me. “Because it will be a lot more fun to work there,” she said. It was as if she was making a startup pitch to the startup-pitch people: “It’s like Google meets an ax.” She wanted to distinguish the billionaire monopolist owners and investors from the rank and file of Big Tech, whom she said would benefit from more competitive markets. It offered a clue to Warren’s philosophy — she is a reformer, not a revolutionary. And it revealed something about the culture of our age of capital, which requires even its most strident critics to seek to persuade those whose clout is being challenged that it’s good for them.
We talked about a recurring theme of her own life and her work studying other people: the way in which people mistakenly, in her view, blame themselves for problems that are systemic, structural, engineered through policy. We feel bad that we can’t keep to our diets, not realizing what Big Food is doing behind our backs. We feel bad that we can’t shake our iPhone addiction, not realizing how Big Tech has thousands of people investigating our psyches to render our willpower defenseless against its creations. If there is a motif of Warren’s life — first as a young woman making her way in the world, let go from her job teaching special-needs children after her first year because she got pregnant; then as a scholar of bankruptcy; and now as a policy maker — it is a quest to help Americans grasp that what they might interpret to be their fault is often a more complex story about systems they cannot see and powerful interests they can’t easily fight alone.”
http://time.com/5549223/the-two-elizabeth-warrens-bankruptcy-law-liz-and-michelob-ultra-betsy/
Mnemosyne
@Pogonip:
Oh, honey. Your friends, family, and neighbors picked Donald J. Trump as their representative. You NEVER get to lecture anyone ever again about “character.” Stormy Daniels the porn star has more character in her little finger than Trump and everyone who voted for him.
Kayla Rudbek
@Mnemosyne: see here for an analysis from a religious point of view.
Whatzername
It would be awfully nice if the broken glass we crawl over had come from a shattered glass ceiling. Harris is my top pick, but there are other strong candidates in the field.
Whatever happens in the primary, the overriding imperative is to win the general.
mousebumples
@Pogonip: Haha, thanks! I’ve used this all over the internet, off-and-on, since I was in high school and came up with it after a friend talked about “goosebumples” … those don’t sound nearly as interesting, as mousebumples though. ;)
I more lurk than post – in large part because I tend to be super-late to 95% of the threads – but I’ve been reading what all of you awesomely crazy people have posted for years. I want to say I found this blog through Sullivan … so I suppose that’s something I should thank him for. ;)
Baud
@WaterGirl: Touché.
WaterGirl
@Baud: As long as you know I didn’t mean it.
I think most of us are so stressed out that it’s
starting to showplaying out here on BJ. My favorite pet store used to have a sign that said: Wag More, Bark Less. I think we might need to hang that sign up at BJ for awhile.Pogonip
@O. Felix Culpa: Um—I don’t have any real tribulations and haven’t had for a long time, maybe you mixed me up with another reader who became snarly that day?
Now, if you want to talk about when we were poor, then I can give you tribulations. Ask me about having to wait till the first of the month to mail a letter because I couldn’t afford a stamp. Ask me about when my husband beat me up and in my naivete (I didn’t grow up poor) I called the cops and, after duly noting my injuries, they threatened to arrest ME. Ask me about how the child psychologists treat you when you are receiving their services via Medicaid.
YOU don’t know anything about ME and have made it clear you don’t care, so why should I not respond in kind?
Oh, and “ugly,” “hateful,” and “ignorant” are not data proving my original snarl wrong. I have been informed they are poor and degree-less, but they really did sound like a bunch of privileged American women whining. Until I was informed otherwise, I had no way to know it wasn’t a typical UMC American female whine-and-Jeez! party.
(If there is a person just joining us who is UMC, I have nothing against that class per se. Heavens, I have relatives in Darien, Connecticut. But when the rich bitches start whining about how tough they have it, yeah, I get cranky. So do most average women.)
Pogonip
@mousebumples: “What you mean ‘you,’ Kemosabe?” ?
wonkie
@MomSense: Neither am I
Pogonip
@Mnemosyne: I’m responsible for 63,000,000 people’s votes?
I am definitely underpaid.
Lyrebird
@janesays:
Agreed.
Sigh.
Signed, former Kerry campaign worker.
FWIW now I have the song, “Jane Says” stuck in my head. Good song!
stinger
@VeniceRiley: Thank you.
Jay
@Mnemosyne: @MisterForkbeard:
It’s been part of the conservative M/O, not just in the US, for decades.
Break shit, blow up the bank, so that “progressives” have to spent most of their time fixing shit, rather than building, so that progressivism since the ‘70’s on a lot of issues has been a slow march backwards.
Eg. Minimum wage, welfare, employment insurance not even coming close to keeping up with inflation.
Skepticat
I’m old and of the vaginal persuasion, but it’s the person, the beliefs, and the skills rather than gender or race that matter to me, and neither gender nor race factors in on those. I don’t see either as an actual qualification, though neither do they disqualify anyone. I want a strong, preferably fairly young person who can win and start bringing this country back to where we need to be, and there seems to be some excellent potential in those who are stepping up so far. A good team with a man and a woman would be nice. Just anybody but _______ and more Rethuglicans.
brantl
@Pogonip: So much condescension, so little time…..
schrodingers_cat
@O. Felix Culpa: Word. In case anyone is wondering what OFC is talking about, this is the thread in question
Mnemosyne
@Pogonip:
Don’t worry, you do sanctimony just as well as your relatives in Darien. I look forward to your further lectures about how terrible the Democrats are for focusing on “identity politics” while Nazis march for Trump in your town.
Pogonip
@MisterForkbeard: That’s reassuring, thanks!
Maybe it was all the “I hate white men” remarks I saw on this particular site that confused me. My son’s a white man and not very good at defending himself, and hate causes bloodshed, and wise people never, ever ignore a potential threat. Staying left of bang also means keeping an eye on societal trends.
And THAT rumbling was my father, the old Army man, turning because I just used a Marine expression. Although it seems to be going purple, maybe because there was a book on the topic. . Adam, if you’re reading, don’t bother; it didn’t say anything I didn’t already know, so it certainly doesn’t say anything YOU don’t already know. I do think it was a good primer on paying attention.
Pogonip
Well, goodnight, folks! Betty, please let me know if I get voted off the island.
Cheryl from Maryland
I feel the women candidates are superior. I also feel that women and especially African-American women are the backbone of the Democratic party. We should be the ones wooed, and the last election showed that shrinking of the franchise, Russian fuckery, Clinton derangement syndrome, racism/misogyny and blow it all up Jokerism screwed up the election. I don’t think that perfect storm could happen again (optimistic, yes?). However, if a candidate of the gentlemen persuasion wins the nomination, especially Wilmer or Biden, I will be disappointed as I feel the electability issue has been ceded to the male part of the party. But if it means defeating Trump so be it.
Ruckus
@Ohio Mom:
64, that’s a veritable child. It’s just getting started.
Happy Birthday. May you have many, many more and may they be filled with joy and peace.
A little secret. If you are a day younger than me, a child. A day older, and since I’ve become an old fart, gets one an old, old fart. Your milage may vary.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
I’m a yellow dog democrat, so no…
Ohio Mom
@Pogonip: Oh I don’t know, there is such a range of ability in all disability, it’s apples and oranges and bananas. Ohio Son is pretty verbal, he can read and write, but the other parts of autism really get in his way.
I think one of the hardest parts of autism is that it’s so hard to succinctly describe it: Yes, poor verbal skills, but then there’s that whole sensory overload thing, and inflexibility, and melt downs, not understanding social conventions, and so on.
People ask me dumb stuff all the time, like does Ohio Son have friends. Uh, no, that’s his dx!!
People do not understand how differently the autistic mind works. You can’t see it, like you can see someone is in a wheelchair, or blind, or cognitively impaired. So a lot of people seem to doubt it exists.
For me the absolute hardest part is not being confident the supports he needs will be there for him when Ohio Dad and I shuffle off this mortal coil.
My son is 21 — we are just beginning to navigate the post-public school world. How old is yours?
Pogonip
@Mnemosyne: Fear not, there are no Nazis in Darien—many residents are Jewish—and no Nazis in Pogonipville—few residents are stupid.
I’m still waiting for a logical argument that rich bitches really have something to whine about. So far ir’s nothing but feeble attempts at insults, which I’ve been meaning to address. “Ignorant?” (Show me.). “Hateful?” Yup,I hate rich whiners, no question. But those are so unimaginative. I know you can do better. Jazz it up a little! Show some imagination! Why, I’ve been called a “goddamn fucking bitch who thinks she has a gold pussy.” Now, THAT’S an insult.
Now. Next time you’re out literally begging for money to buy baby food, honey, you let me know and I’ll send you some, because I’ve been there.
Goodnight! Let me know how the vote goes!
Richard Guhl
The most progressive Senators, according to Progressive Punch, are Elizabeth Warren, Edward Markey, Kamala Harris, and Kirsten Gillibrand.
Pogonip
@Ohio Mom: I just saw this & had to reply. Mine’s 39.
Autistic people don’t LOOK disabled. Girls used to try to chat up Son all the time—and end up nearly as disappointed as he was.
I must go to bed. If they vote me off the island, we’ll figure out some way to keep in touch.
Ruckus
@Ohio Mom:
I’d rather have Abrams/Biden. He knows how to be a VP – been there done that.
My only issue with Biden in the VP slot would be that people, including him might think that he’s really in charge, she’s just the person with her name on the door. And that would be worse than him in the big chair. And I think Biden in the big chair would be a serious mistake. Too many good reasons he’s gone nowhere both times he’s run.
Raven Onthill
I think the nominee is probably going to be a woman or person of color (or both) who will be chosen because they appear to support the policies of old white men. And I will stifle my objections, work for them, and vote for them because they will still be better than Trump.
MisterForkbeard
@Raven Onthill: Who is the woman or minority that espouses the policies of old white men? Especially one you believe will be nominated?
Brachiator
All the candidates seem competent, and I’m not yet sure who’s best.
I’d like to see a woman humiliate Trump, slap him around as she cruised to victory. I would like to see a woman candidate inspire all her voters and unite them around her vision.
Anyway, one guy’s opinion.
Omnes Omnibus
Wow, that’ll learn me about sticking up for someone.
Mnemosyne
@Pogonip:
Uh-huh. And yet someone in Pogonipville just set fire to a mosque. I guess the Muslims in Dayton shouldn’t have made everyone mad with their “identity politics.”
Yeah, I’m a rich bitch. Never really had to worry about money a day in my life. Turns out that cancer doesn’t give a shit about how much money you have. Or drunk drivers. When your uncle, his wife, and their three kids under the age of six get t-boned by a drunk driver, it turns out that all the money in the world can’t bring them back to life. True story.
But, hey, I’m sure someone will come along and pound that last nail in for you so you can be the martyr to White Victimhood that lets you vote for Trump again next year.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
several times this week I have been deeply confused about what the hell’s going on here….
Ruckus
@Mary G:
Once again I’m an old white male. And I remember. I remember my sister not being able/allowed to even attempt to do what she wanted to do, which was work in a machine shop, to learn, to be treated equally, to be thought of equally. She wasn’t the only female I knew in similar situations.
The Phantom Stranger
There’s a Vulcan proverb here that’s relevant…..
sukabi
waaaaay late to the thread, but as an old(ish) ww, I’m sick and damn tired of the old white men fucking shit up and ignoring the problems / concerns of 51% of the countries female population, and making it worse for the other men who are not wealthy and white.
Time for a gender change in the white house. Bonus points for a color change as well.
And yes there are a few well qualified women running, and they’re as qualified as the men running, if not more so.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m a little sad, actually, because Pogonip used to be a pleasant person to talk to. Unfortunately, the white supremacy prion disease has attacked her brain and made her decide that the only way to solve our problems is for everyone who’s not her to shut up and pretend that everything is fine while she lectures us about the good old days when Martin Luther King would have told Kamala Harris to shut up and make him a sandwich while he and Trump got the real work done.
2liberal
i personally will be 64 in about 3 weeks, and am of the male persuasion. i respected hillary as being someone who had built a good career as a public servant , in the senate and as SOS and think she would have been a fine steward of the office of the presidency. the idea of “it’s our turn” strikes me as not a good reason for me to vote for a woman. The women candidates are a good group and I’ll absolutely vote for one (not tulsi, please!) as the democratic candidate, and very possibly in the primary.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: FWIW I would like a sandwich. In the spirit of this thread though, I’ll go make it for myself.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That makes two of us, but after seeing how heated this thread is getting, I don’t think I actually want to be filled in on the details. (Grampa Simpson entering/exiting gif here.) I really shouldn’t be spending more time online right now anyway.
@Pogonip: Thanks. I should note I’m on the higher functioning end of the “spectrum” (ugh I hate that term) and verbal communication has been the aspect I’ve had by far the least trouble with. Not none – it took decades to learn to phrase myself without opening myself to misunderstandings – but the nonverbal aspects have been by far the biggest source of headaches and I don’t know if I’ll ever really master them.
O. Felix Culpa
@Pogonip: QED
Ohio Mom
@Ruckus: I am not a big Biden fan — but I can imagine lots of people going for him because he seems safe. Which is okay by me if it gets us the White House.
I think you are right about if he is VP, people would not take the President as seriously, especially if he/she was a POC and/or a woman. The upside is he might bow out after one term.
I can see roles for contenders that don’t make it: for starters, Harris as AG, Sherrod Brown as Secretary of Labor or Commerce (yeah, I know we need him in the Senate), Buttigieg in Housing and Urban Development.
sukabi
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: think everyone’s beyond stressed. I’ve had to check out several times too much bad juju.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ohio Mom: I don’t think I can support Buttigieg. I mean, I don’t even know how to say the dude’s name.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
If that’s what Dem primary voters want, I’m okay with it.
I like more than I dislike about Biden– but that Washington Post article about his comments on busing and other matters shook me a bit– I just worry he has no idea how the party has changed, and therefore no idea how to appeal to it
MShepNJ
I’m a mostly-lurker here (female, 56, white), but I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I think it’s well past time for someone other than a cis/white/ (old) man to be President. I think we have a good group of candidates and I’m leaning towards Harris, but I want to hear what they have to say before I make a choice about who I’m going to support with my time and money, not that I’ll get much of a choice of who to vote for by the time the NJ primary rolls around. I hope to see a highly-qualified woman displace the orange menace. However, I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is, even if it’s yet another old, white guy.
I do fear the prospect of a Sanders/Gabbard ticket however. We already have one Putin tool in the WH. We don’t need 2. If it comes to a choice between Biden and Sanders, and old Uncle Joe looks like the last barrier preventing such an outcome at the Convention, he’d get my vote in the primary.
Sab
@Mnemosyne: People never would have elected Obama if they weren’t terrified by the imploding economy, and if they didn’t believe he could save them. They did believe, and he did save them and the economy.
I was (and am) a long time Hillary fan, late to the Obama fanclub. But he was an amazingly effective candidate and president.
I like a lot of the candidates. Good, solid, competent people. Like Hillary. So far I don’t see an Obama on the horizon, but we only get one of those every other generation.
I didn’t like Hillary because she was a woman. I liked her because she was a Methodist grandmother who had spent pretty much every hour of her life trying to live her faith and be a good and useful person.
Kind of like Obama.
Dan B
@debbie: Yes. I am not a Biden fan. His connections to Delaware banking would drive the wilmer bots nuts, and prolly a lot of union members. That said I believe Abrams and Biden could be a team that would not be afraid to kick ass. Harris seems like she’s mire comfortable being in charge but who knows. I’m disturbed that some white suburban women I know are afraid of running a woman or P.O.C.
And as a gay man I’m afraid of running a gay man but Mayor Pete seems like he can elevate the debates and get some national exposure. He’s damn impressive. He doesn’t need to be president to steer the country back in the right direction.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: No good deed ….
Ohio Mom
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t worry, I think he starts every presentation with a tutorial.
I am less convinced about his name being disqualifying than him being gay — I don’t have a lot of confidence in the general public’s open-mindedness. But then I didn’t think a Black guy with s funny name had a chance so maybe second-guessing the rest of America isn’t my strong point.
He appears to be a wildly successful mayor, that is why my fantasy pick is Secretary of Housing and Urban Affairs.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Hey, as long as you’re up ….
Omnes Omnibus
@Sab:
Maybe I am missing something (it could happen), but doesn’t someone need to be a woman in order to be a grandmother?
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: Not if you want mayo on it, Fuck that.
Sab
@Omnes Omnibus: Lots of women aren’t.
ETA: Liz Cheney, Lynne Cheney, Kelly Anne Conway, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Betsy deVos, Kirsten Nielsen
Matt McIrvin
@Sab: I think Obama would have won even without the market implosion–the acute phase of it started in September, and the effect of it was to put an abrupt end to McCain’s convention bounce, but before the conventions Obama had had a solid polling lead all summer. It probably would have been closer.
(That said, of course the economy’s troubles didn’t begin then. But it was the moment when it all became top of mind for everyone.)
stinger
@Mnemosyne: I find particularly problematic the yearning for the good old days when our host could regale us with entertaining anecdotes of alcohol-induced accidents.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ohio Mom: at lunch with some relatives a couple of weeks ago, one of my liberal cousins brought up Buttigieg and my trump-voting, 87 year-old uncle said, “he’s too young, he needs to run for Senator or Governor first”. I couldn’t believe he knew who PB was, much less that he spoke more-or-less approvingly. He’s a vet, too, which matters to a lot of people.
Video at link. He’s good.
Gin & Tonic
But hey, folks, look at the bright side – there are a lot of good, qualified (or potentially qualified) candidates. The Presidential election in Ukraine is on March 31, and the three leading candidates are 1) the current President, a multi-millionaire (made his fortune in chocolate) who is enmeshed in several serious corruption scandals, 2) a former Prime Minister and failed Presidential candidate, also a multi-millionaire (her former business partner was convicted of money laundering in the US) who is essentially bought and paid for by the natural gas interests and 3) a comedian, with no experience in politics on any level, who doesn’t even speak Ukrainian.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Matt McIrvin: Obama’s opposition to Iraq was a huge factor in ’08, and trump’s lying about his opposition was significant in ’16. I don’t know if Biden gets that, because the sort of people he talks to, like the people who talk politics on television, think Iraq is as relevant to current politics as the Treaty of Westphalia.
Lymie
100% agree with Betty. Biden irritates me with all the bad things he has done (Anita hill for one) and all the bland old white guy mistakes he makes. Sanders has some decent ideas but would be a terrible president.
Harris, Warren, yes!
David Buchen
@Momentary: but none of the possibilities here are thatcher, May, Gandhi. They are women like Elizabeth Warren!
Ohio Mom
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Buttigieg *is* good, I was knocked over by the video Betty posted of his town hall.
I get what your uncle is saying, and I am similarly impressed that he’s heard of PB. But according to the Hoosiers here, it would be awfully hard for any Democrat to win an Indiana Senate seat or the Governorship. So where will Buttigieg get the experience he needs?
Spanish Moss
Female in her late fifties here. I will vote for the Democrat, but I want a woman nominee very badly. When I voted for Hillary in the last election, I surprised myself by crying in the car the whole way home, thinking “I just voted for the first female president”. I knew that it mattered to me, but I didn’t realize how much until then. Of course the actual results were devastating.
I would prefer that we nominate someone who will not be in their seventies during their term.
rikyrah
I want a woman. As long as the man ain’t Bernie, I will still vote for him.
J R in WV
@Pogonip:
If you have been here as long as I recall your ‘nym being around, you know that being a pain in the ass isn’t nearly enough to get banned. You would need to act out in a racist or threatening manner, which you aren’t doing at all. You’re just being a PITA, which doesn’t threaten any of us.
Hang in there pogo!!
Sab
@Sab: Sorry, you know what I mean, All grandmothers are women, but not all women are Methodist grandmothers trying to be good. Cheneys and deVoses aren’t even trying feebly to ge good.
Jude
I will be LIVID if I’m voting for a raisiny old man. And I will crawl over coals to make sure Bernie is nowhere near that general ballot.
Yeah, Betty. I’m in a very different space than I was 2 years ago. I honestly think a woman will win the primary because those pussy hat riots weren’t a one-off. We’re still persisting and polls from Iowa can KMA.
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’d say it might be at this point… but in the first election after the Iraq invasion, we were still fighting over the Vietnam War.
Matt McIrvin
I would much rather vote for a woman, but it’s partly because the leading men this time around just aren’t as good.
hitchhiker
Lady Jackal here, almost 67 yrs old.
The psychic wound of trump’s election is not going to be healed in the years I have left. That’s just a fact. One of the most despicable men in the country was given enormous power just for being a dick. One of the most hard-working, experienced women in the country was given the back of the hand.
Right in front of us.
So, do I think a woman should be the Dem nominee? Sure. Also I think we should elect a bunch of new senators and members of congress who are female. Plus governors, mayors, and state legislators. Judges, DAs, everything. We should elect women with good credentials (they’re everywhere!) as often as we can.
I’m not going to have a say in the nominee, because I’m in WA, (where the party is still deciding if it’s keeping the caucus or going with a primary) and we don’t get to vote until May. If it’s a guy on the ballot in the general, I know that’s going to sting. A lot. But it won’t sting anything like the idea of continuing with trump.
Like a lot of you, I think Harris would be a good choice. She seems fearless, warm, and (sorry, but it does matter) she has a great smile. I love to listen to Abrams speak, and I think she’s a force of nature. I don’t warm as much to Gillebrand or Klobuchar, but either would get me to the phones, no question.
Of the men … I haven’t paid much attention, to be honest. I saw the clip of BOOT-edge-edge (trying to remember how to pronounce it) wondering how Pence can cheerlead for the porn star president, and that’s fun. If he can keep his head together, I could see him being a huge favorite of young voters and the women who are so addled that they believe a man is needed. The rest of ’em, meh. Not being in TX, I didn’t have a lot of Beto exposure, but I understand that people think he’s special, too.
Up and down the ballot, Democrats, women, POC. We have to do it.
Thad Phetteplace
I’ll just weigh in to say if the Dem candidate is a dude I’ll be a bit disappointed because it means it’s not Warren or Harris, who are my current top picks just based on policy positions and experience. Nevertheless, I’ll be voting for whoever runs against the Orange Buffoon, as I suspect we all will.
Regine Touchon
Wow, experienced the same thing with my Mom in 2008 Betty. If not now, when?
Mnemosyne
@Ohio Mom:
I want Elizabeth Warren to be the Secretary of the Treasury. ?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: I’d rather she stay in the Senate
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I came to Corner Bakery expecting to get a sandwich, but the soup and a scoop of chicken salad ended up sounding better.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Oh, dear God, do NOT get me started on the moronic short-sightedness of the “anti-war” crowd. You know, the ones who decided that they would rather let the war continue for another FOUR YEARS than vote for the Democrat who admitted he shouldn’t have voted for it.
Fuck them. All of them. They fucked over the entire fucking planet and then have the nerve to claim they have some kind of fucking moral high ground.
hilts
For the first time ever, we have several accomplished, credible female candidates, so yes my preference would be for one of them to win the presidency. I just hope to God, if a male candidate wins the Democratic nomination, it isn’t Biden, Bernie, or Beto because Biden and Bernie are too fucking old and Beto is too inexperienced.
Unlike many commenters here, I can’t stand Biden. I think one of Obama’s biggest mistakes was picking him as his running mate. To me Biden is an empty suit and a windbag. Warren, Harris, Klobuchar, Gillibrand, and Abrams are just as qualified as Biden and they’re head and shoulders above him in terms of gravitas. Clueless Joe is a walking gaffe machine and would be an embarrassment as President. Given the impressive credentials of the aforementioned female candidates as well as plausible options like Booker, Inslee, and Castro I’m fairly disgusted that two over the hill dinosaurs, Biden and Sanders, are leading in the polls. Joe and Bernie are selfish pricks and I hope they both get their fucking asses kicked by one of these female candidates.
km
I’ll vote for the D candidate, regardless, but probably will only work like crazy on the campaign if they’re a woman. I wonder if others who put a lot into the midterms feel similarly.
tallred
I’m not only a man, but couldn’t possibly envision life as a woman (I’m not tough enough).
That said, my top two candidates are Senators Warren and Harris (or Harris and Warren, mostly depending on who I last saw, heard, or read), with Senator Gillibrand as either my third or fourth, depending on the day. Of the undeclared potential candidates, If Abrams declared, she likely would leap into my top three. Neither Biden nor Beto would.
I guess that means I want a woman.
Feathers
I will vote for a woman in the primary, Warren unless something convinces me otherwise in the next twelve months. Will vote for whoever the Dems nominate in November.
I’ll keep repeating this, but whoever is in charge of the primaries and debates needs to demand that everyone on the ballots and in the debates has released their tax returns. This can be tied to whatever shitshow is revealed when the House gets Drumpf’s tax records. If this had been the rule last time around, Hillary would be President. The Dems letting Wilmer slide meant that it turned into a both sides do it, with catastrophic consequences.
TomatoQueen
Oldish lady with disabled young man in the house, and a gov’t job: whoever persuades me that the rule of law still means something will inspire me, and tho’ due to arthritis in both hips I can’t crawl over broken glass, I can still wield a ballot when the time comes. Girl? Pony? Just beat the occupant.
Desargues
Straight white man here: I *want* a woman to get the nomination–we *need* a woman to do so–a woman has the *best chance* to defeat that talking shart. Win-win-win.
Raven Onthill
@MisterForkbeard: I’m not naming names because I won’t publicly criticize someone I expect to be working for.
janesays
@J R in WV: Russian stooge dilemma aside, there is one significant way in which we would indisputably be better off with Sanders than Trump in the White House.
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES. If Trump gets re-elected, he almost certainly gets to choose Ginsburg’s replacement, and very likely Breyer’s as well. That alone is enough reason to vote for the Democrat no matter who it is, even if you personally loathe them (ie Sanders or Gabbard).
That is all.
Suzanne
I’m with Omnes here: charisma and ability to communicate are the most important qualities that I am looking for right now, as I think they are critical to beating Trump. Harris and O’Rourke are my early faves on this front, but I am also increasingly into Mayor Pete.
A woman is definitely a preference for me. A person of color and/or a LGBT person is also a preference for me. (Some combination thereof in the Dem ticket.) An old person (Baby Boomer) is definitely not a preference for me. None of that is qualifying or disqualifying on its own, but is preferred, all things being (close to) equal.
Beating Trump is most important.
I will vote for whomever wins the Dem nom.
SectionH
I’m just skipping from OP to late comment.
Um… I like Kamala a lot – have been contributing to her for a few years now. So fine.
I really like her, but I love Beto too. We were in “somewhere in Texas” the night before the election last year, and most of our hotel was taken over by Beto workers. It was so great. Mr S was like “I so hope he can join Kamala and Di” (cause, yeah even Di). And the next morning, and we got up early, they were moving out…
Damn. Bad news that night in Las Cruces, but that was also when we got called by Rorimac “Bullroarer” Underfoot cat to deal with. We were still hoping.
I really like Beto. I really like Kamala. There’s my dynamic duo.
rikyrah
@Ohio Mom:
I would love to see Abrams as AG too.
westyny
Late to the party here. Like nearly everyone else, I will vote for the D, even, god forfend, if it’s Indy McShouty from from VT. Gabbard isn’t coming within a sniff of the nomination and is therefore only a role-play exercise. I like Harris and Warren, and feel Harris has the organization at this stage. If my party really wants to go for Biden I hope he picks Harris/Warren/Abrams. If Harris gets it I hope she picks Buttigieg. Biden won’t need Klobuchar if he goes to the Midwest on his own. For all the Biden reluctance I share with others I will always be grateful for his playful curb stomping of Ryan during his debate, which bucked up Obama to come on with a vengeance after a shaky first round with Romneyshambles. It was a turning point. And I think foreign leaders would trust him.
Momentary
@David Buchen: Oh agreed! And I’m a huge fan of Nicola Sturgeon and Leanne Wood (who was very unfortunately just unseated as Plaid Cymru leader by a guy whose unspoken campaign message was “you’ve done very well, but I have a penis”). I would give anything to see Nicola as PM.
Jean King
I’m not taking gender into account in making my selection. I’ll be fine with a male candidate if we end up with one. Of candidates who have already declared, I’d prefer it not to be Andy Yang, who has no experience governing whatsoever, but Buttigieg or Gardner or Castro or even Joe Biden or Beto O’Rourke would be fine.This is definitely not the election to die on the hill of gender. I think Harris, Warren, or Klobuchar would be awesome. I haven’t made up my mind yet who I’m going to vote for in the primaries, but gender will not factor in.
HeartlandLiberal
I am a guy, and although I really like Elizabeth Warren, I would prefer Joe Biden by the nominee for Pres, and Warren his VP candidate. I think Joe Biden would bring so much experience and knowledge to the table he could step right into the office and start trying to fix everything that Trump and his goons have broken and will break if they can in the next two years. Also, I wish Bernie Sanders would step back and not run. He is NOT the candidate the Democrats need right now. Hell, he is not even a Democrat.
maurinsky
I would prefer a woman for both President and Vice President. I would prefer someone who is not in their 70s.
I would never not vote or vote R or 3rd party if I don’t get my way, but that is my preference. So tired of men, even though I think many of them are adequate. (I quite like Buttiegieg).
Betty Cracker
@Pogonip:
You sure aren’t. She was an honest, empathetic person with above-average reading comprehension skills and a capacity for abstract thought. She wasn’t whiny or self-pitying. And had she ever formed irrational hostilities toward a complete stranger on a blog, I am confident she wouldn’t have been nasty and hypocritical enough to cloak those feelings in terms of pseudo-concern. Therefore, I’d prefer it if you’d keep her name out of your mouth in the future, even in pronoun form.
Betty Cracker
Even though this thread (predictably) turned into a shit-show in places, there’s a lot of wisdom, passion and perspective in it. I appreciate that — thank you!
Original Lee
Sorry this thread is dead. For posterity, then: I don’t care if the candidate is a man or a woman, so long as they’re competent and can win against Mango Smallgloves. I would really prefer someone who isn’t eligible for Social Security and a woman on the ticket would be lovely, but my highest priority is winning.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Thanks for this thread, Betty, even if it did turn into a shit-show for awhile. It really helped me to articulate the traits I am looking for in our democratic nominee, to the point where I modified my list of attributes:
inspirational
charismatic
ability to communicate
strong coattails
ability to raise tons of money
someone with vision
lots of energy
wicked smart
good on their feet
willing to upset the status quo
someone who could beat trump
good relationship with the black community
connects with young people
connects with women
strongly supports women’s issues
connects with independents, not just dems
not an old white guy
This thread has helped me see that it’s not their position on any particular issue that will determine who I think is best suited for the job. I was really upset when Barack Obama took (I thought) a terrible position on FISA during the campaign, but the bottom line was that I trusted him so we didn’t have to agree on everything.
Thanks for the thread. Not sure I have ever seen a BJ thread before that stayed on topic well into the 200 comment range.
Peter VE
I’m kind of mystified about the immediate dismissal of Tulsi Gabbard.
My first criteria for a presidential candidate is to get us out of all these stupid wars. Our host certainly isn’t a warmonger. About the only positive thing I was able to say about 45 was his fitful attempts to get us out of Syria, since overridden by the Bolton/Pompeo team of minders.
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: Those attributes are general enough that you’d expect a person who embodied them to be equipped to deal with just about any situation. I agree with your comment on PBO too. Didn’t like everything he said or did, but he is a decent, competent and thoughtful person, and that is important!
@Peter VE: Can’t speak for anyone else, but Gabbard’s past support for an anti-gay hate group that promoted “conversion therapy” is disqualifying to me. I realize she was young at the time and that the anti-gay organization she supported was run by her father, but she continued to be an anti-gay rights activist as an adult and elected representative in her state’s legislature.
She’s said she changed her mind, and good for her if so. But it’s baffling to me how someone could be so closed and/or weak-minded as an adult in the 21st century. In the unlikely event that we face the horrific choice of Gabbard or Trump in the general, I guess I’d hold my nose and vote for Gabbard, but that’s the only scenario in which she’d get my vote.