I wrote about the stereotype of Elizabeth Warren as nerdy professor/Poindexter/Lisa Simpson, and why it both underrates her exceptional charisma and betrays our inability to handle smart women: https://t.co/nACDJTCaYx
— Sady Doyle (@sadydoyle) March 22, 2019
Unless, of course, you’re the type of ‘edgy’ media village idiot who thinks Bart Simpson is the president America really needs:
… Warren is bursting with what we might call “charisma” in male candidates: She has the folksy demeanor of Joe Biden, the ferocious conviction of Bernie Sanders, the deep intelligence of fellow law professor Barack Obama. But Warren is not a man, and so those traits are framed as liabilities, rather than strengths. According to the media, Warren is an uptight schoolmarm, a “wonky professor,” a scold, a wimpy Dukakis, a wooden John Kerry, or (worse) a nerdier Al Gore.
The criticism has hit her from the left and right. The far-right Daily Caller accused her of looking weird when she drank beer; on social media, conservatives spread vicious (and viciously ableist) rumors that Warren took antipsychotic drugs that treated “irritability caused by autism.” On the other end of the spectrum, Amber A’Lee Frost, the lone female co-host of the socialist podcast Chapo Trap House, wrote for The Baffler (and, when The Baffler retracted her article, for Jacobin) that Warren was “weak” and “not charismatic.” Frost deplored the “Type-A Tracy Flicks” who dared support “this Lisa Simpson of a dark-horse candidate.”…
There’s an element of gaslighting here: It only takes a reporter a few sources — and an op-ed columnist a single, fleeting judgment — to declare a candidate “unlikable.” After that label has been applied, any effort the candidate makes to win people over can be cast as “inauthentic.” Likability is in this way a self-reinforcing accusation, one which is amplified every time the candidate tries to tackle it. (Recall Hillary Clinton, who was asked about her “likability” at seemingly every debate or town hall for eight straight years — then furiously accused of pandering every time she made an effort to seem more “approachable.”)…
Warren is cast as a bloodless intellectual when she focuses on policy, a scolding lecturer when she leans into her skills as a rabble-rouser; either way, her intelligence is always too much and out of place. Her eloquence is framed, not as inspiring, but as “angry” and “hectoring.” Being an effective orator makes her “strident.” It’s not solely confined to the media, but reporters seem anxious to signal-boost anyone who complains: Anonymous male colleagues call her “irritating,” telling Vanity Fair that “she projects a ‘holier than thou’ attitude” and that “she has a moralizing to her.” That same quality in male candidates is hailed as moral clarity.
Warren is accused, in plain language, of being uppity — a woman who has the bad grace to be smarter than the men around her, without downplaying it to assuage their egos. But running in a presidential race is all about proving that you are smarter than the other guy. By demanding that Warren disguise her exceptional talents, we are asking her to lose. Thankfully, she’s not listening. She is a smart woman, after all.
LOL, yes. Or speak into some kind of voice box that makes her sound like Darth Vader.
— Sady Doyle (@sadydoyle) March 22, 2019
I came to see if anyone had mentioned this. If Elizabeth Warren is Lisa Simpson then she is the chosen one from the prophecy to save us from Trump! But seriously who wouldn’t want Lisa Simpson as president- she’s an ideal candidate.
— Sarah Featonby (@sarah_featonby) March 22, 2019
Related: I find that Warren's audiences, more than other candidates', comment on the way out that they were surprised at how "down to earth" she was. https://t.co/XIQiYuHm8g
— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) March 22, 2019
rikyrah
Kayla Reed (@iKaylaReed) Tweeted:
Y’all keep talking about Bernie this and Beto that….
Meanwhile ELIZABETH WARREN is in the Mississippi Delta talking about housing repairs and offering a policy to address the issue head on.
She’s a top contender in my book. Other candidates need to play catch up. https://t.co/ll1qxUlzZa https://twitter.com/iKaylaReed/status/1109215607726194690?s=17
Tom Levenson
I was talking recently with a (sane, smart — i.e., atypical) member of the national media who told me that one of Warren’s biggest liabilities was that too much of the political media elite simply doesn’t like her. My speculation, assuming my friend is correct, is that beyond the misogyny (which is a big “beyond,” I’ll admit) it’s the fact that Warren is clearly smarter than most of those scrutinizing her for the nets and the broadsheets — and they know it, and hate it, and hate her for it.
rikyrah
Jacob Soboroff (@jacobsoboroff) Tweeted:
I’m in GA, where a computer scientist cyber security expert just told me @BrianKempGA is on the verge of signing a bill that could buy the *worst possible* voting machines for protecting election integrity.
That on top of accusations of suppression, purges and long lines here. https://twitter.com/jacobsoboroff/status/1109481374367604736?s=17
NobodySpecial
All the people political journalists love to hang out with hate her, simple as that. You’ll never get to nerd prom without talking smack about people the in crowd hates.
debbie
@Tom Levenson:
I agree. It’s almost like Obama all over again. “Stop lecturing us!”
guachi
The thing is, Lisa Simpson *is* charismatic. All the Simpsons are. It’s how the show has lasted 30 years.
KJSBrooklyn
@Tom Levenson: I don’t know what we do with the “Media Doesn’t Like Her Problem” It’s real)Al Gore anyone?) and has doomed good candidates in the past
ThresherK
You know who had to “work a room, one person at a time” to get over the Heathers’ hive mind about his likeability early in the campaign?
Bill Clinton.
Jager
The guy that Warren booted out of the Senate, Scott Brown, isn’t he the US Ambassador to New Zealand? Not a peep out of that lightweight since the massacre. BTW, all of the pundits, talkers and the press in Massachusetts loved Scott Brown, the day before the election he was on WRKO and the WEEI for about 12 hours.
Doug R
Baud/Wiggum 2020!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Tom Levenson: When Sen. Warren was in town I passed by the venue that she was speaking at, she was out in the courtyard of the theater talking to the crowd that didn’t get into the venue prior to going inside to give her speech. She came across really well, folksy yet smart.
Ruckus
@Tom Levenson:
So many men are so insecure that the slightest hint that someone, especially a woman may be smarter, better than them causes them to have a conniption. When I raced motorcycles I had a race with a woman that was one of my best races. The amount of crap that my “friends” gave me after the race was disgusting. I asked them which one of them was in front of either of us. No one could answer so I told them not only did you get beaten by a woman but you got beaten by the man she was faster than. Never heard another word. BTW it was a great race, one of my best. Always good to get beaten by a competitor who is better than you rather than beaten by your own mistakes. You learn more. Isn’t that the goal in life, to learn, to be fairer, to be a better human? I sure hope it is otherwise it seems we are just here to take up space.
ThresherK
@Doug R: Wiggum?
I’d rather this Simpsons reference from the assorted jackals.
dexwood
@Tom Levenson:
A few days ago, my wife said about Warren, sadly, how she was too smart, it would be held against her by people who should know better.
Have a good evening, Balloon Juice. .
Ohio Mom
Am I too pessimistic — I can see Warren and Harris splitting the smart people vote and then what will we end up with?
They are both very capable — they have track records and pertinent experience and crowds eat both of them up. I hope they don’t cancel each other out.
rikyrah
About Mayor Pete:
Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) Tweeted:
If I wanted a white guy who briefly acknowledges the racism of Trump voters before pivoting to the debunked claim Trump voters chose him due to economic anxiety I’d vote for Bernie Sanders. https://twitter.com/eclecticbrotha/status/1109497323695030272?s=17
James E Powell
@Tom Levenson:
Many of the press/media – going all the way back to 1992 – hated Hillary Clinton for the same reason. I think that she needs surrogates and supporters to loudly and persistently call them out for it. The phrase “They hate her because she’s smarter than they are” has to become widespread.
Ruckus
@dexwood:
People who should know better. But they don’t. Which means they dislike people smarter than themselves. What was the line in the movie, oh yeah, “A man has to know his limitations.” Most do not in some way know theirs.
Mart
Way back before she was considering politics I remember watching a YouTube with the Professor explaining how “The Man” has his thumb pushing down on us. She can make complex concepts easily understood to novices and experts. An amazing woman who will win folks over despite the fucking misogynist reporters.
Ladyraxterinok
@Tom Levenson: I always thought media neg reporting on Gore was because they resented that he was smarter than they were and didn’t hide that to protect their fragile egos. Thank God there was W who was just a likeable doofus who only wanted to drink a beer with you, not discuss foreign policy!
rikyrah
Of course Warren is smart.
When I called Hillary a “grown up Tracy Flick” in 2016, it was a high compliment.
She is bringing policy, and that is needed.
Ohio Mom
@rikyrah: Given the choice between Bernie and Pete, all else being equal (and your tweet link is an argument for that), I’d vote for Pete just because he’s much more personable. We owe it to the rest of the world’s leaders to send them someone they can have a nice state dinner with.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Gah! Whadda hot mess – Weekend at Bernie’s (photo)
Ruckus
@James E Powell:
Smarter than they are is code for better than they are. Most of my life I’ve heard that anyone can grow up to be president. But that is blatantly untrue. OK it was until 2 yrs ago. Not everyone could do the job, but morons hired a moron to do the job. Of course he’s a failure at it like everything else he’s attempted. But he still sits in the WH, on what I’m sure he thinks is a throne. And how much push back did he get? Certainly no one said he’s too smart. But an actual smart person runs and we can’t have that! Tell me the MSM isn’t in on the grift for top political office.
karen marie
@Tom Levenson: This right here. I’m not sure there is a wall big enough, “when the revolution comes,” to put all the journalists/media people who have been such tremendous shits up against.
patrick II
I intend to vote for Warren in the primaries, and hopefully in the general, and work for her when I get the chance. I have listened to her, read some (but not all) of her policy positions, and she is just brilliant. But if there is one thing I would ask her to do it is, and I’ll probably catch hell here for saying this, have some simple phrases that sum up the themes of her philosophy and goals. In song writing terms, “a hook”.
For instance, we have been talking about climate change for years, with all of its truths, implications, and policies we need to see as a successful outcome of a campaign to fight climate change and with little success. Now we have the “New Green Deal”, and an outline of why we need it and how to go about it — themes, but not details. And I can tell how well its working by how much the conservative media hates it, hates AOC, and talks about her and the New Green Deal constantly.
We can resent people who resent Warren because they really don’t take the time or perhaps can’t understand what she is telling them and it doesn’t seem fair — but they exist anyhow. That is the reality.
I think that in her heart, there are some basic themes that drive her thoughts, perhaps “Outcomes that support people not just profits”. (Yeah, I know, I am really bad at theme writing.) And I am not saying “instead of”, but “in addition to” policy. because it would help to have both. We may not like it, but “MAGA” works, and it would help to have something as catchy and summarizing as that — except more truthful.
Anyhow, for what its worth, my two cents.
Mnemosyne
@Ladyraxterinok:
The MSM liked W because they knew they were smarter than him, and it gave them a smug sense of superiority to know that they were smarter than the President of the United States.
Gore, Kerry, Obama, and Hillary made the MSM mad because they were all smarter than any of the reporters they encountered.
Two other things that Warren and Harris have in common is that they’re both whip-smart and not to be trifled with. I find it intriguing that neither they nor their surrogates is attacking the other. That would be one hell of a dream team regardless of who’s at the top of the ticket. ?
Kraux Pas
@James E Powell:
Problem is we don’t want to trigger the same response in some portion of the voting public. I’d go with something more like “they hate her because they want to run gossip columns, not report on policies that may help regular people.”
chris
@karen marie: Gak! Up against the wall, CNN!
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@chris: #FakeNews
trollhattan
@patrick II:
What you describe is marketing and nobody gets elected without that. “Walk softly and carry a big stick.” She’ll need something.
I’m far from ready to choose (the primary being almost exactly a year away) but she’s atop my list so far, and IMO is running the most effective early campaign.
Mary G
I think of Elizabeth Warren as Hermione Granger.
dmsilev
@James E Powell:
Unfortunately, that might not be a selling point. Being smarter (or even just better-educated, which is of course not the same thing) than average has historically not been something that we look for in a leader. As Adlai Stevenson famously said when someone told him he had the support of all thinking Americans, ‘That’s not enough; we need a majority’.
Ramalama
Elizabeth Warren deployed a charm offensive when the economy was collapsing way back when. Jon Stewart said he wanted to make out with her. Why does she have to start all over as an unknown?
debbie
@dmsilev:
It may turn out to be a selling point. It’s going to take someone exceptionality smart to clean up all of Trump’s messes.
John Revolta
I seem to recall a lot of people who met Hillary came away surprised about how “down to earth” and “likable” she was.
This says a lot more about them than it does about her in my opinion.
Duane
@Doug R: BAUD/SIDESHOW BOB2020!
(WE CAN DO THIS THE EASY WAY OR THE HARD WAY!)
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: I have listen to a lot of Pete videos, and I haven’t heard him talk about economic anxiety even once. that I recall. He talks about people voting “to burn it all down”, but that’s not the same thing.
Have you listened to Buttigieg? If you have, I would be very interested to know what he has said that would lead you to agree with the person who tweeted that.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Speaking at a big rally today in Houston Texas, Kamala Harris proposed a significant federal investment in raising teacher salaries to close the teacher pay gap relative to other college graduate level jobs, and pledged to close the gap by the end of her first term.
Raven Onthill
I’ve decided I’m going to work for Warren.
LongHairedWeirdo
Yeah, thank god we elected the puffed up braniac, rather than the guy people would rather have a beer with. That loser probably would have ignored terrorism, and lied us into a pointless, *STUPID* war. And I can’t tell you how many tears of relief I cried when the nation threw off the media talents of the lying grifter/proud ignoramus, and elected the competent, intelligent person our first woman president.
(That’s intended to be a bit biting, but not nasty. It’s true: if you want to win Democrats, hiding your brains won’t help. I’m just being a bit harsh on “…is all about…”. I’d have had no problem with “ought to be about…”. )
Major Major Major Major
She’s been my top candidate from the start, but she’s also one of those politicians who I like more and more based on her enemies.
sukabi
@Tom Levenson: besides being married to Bill, “being smarter than” was the Washington medias big beef with Hillary. They don’t like folks that are actually smarter than they are.
piratedan
candidates like Warren and Clinton threaten the Media to have be as well versed in the issues and policies as the candidates themselves and considering the quality of the coverage that we receive from them, I can only think that they would loathe that as much as we do the current administration. Plus it means that networks would have to start hiring reporters that are smarter than their anchors, and next thing you know, we’re talking about issues instead of horse races.
JR
Lisa Simpson is fucking awesome. Who has a problem with her?
SiubhanDuinne
O/T, but I am so fucked.
https://bookstr.com/article/man-threatened-with-eviction-for-having-too-many-books/
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
Feeling better?
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl:
I think we’re all so thin-skinned after the trauma of 2016 that people are parsing everything he says for Bernie-isms.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Mnemosyne:
Is this a recent phenomenon? Did FDR, Truman, JFK, etc have to put up with this sort of shit? I remember reading Adlai Stevenson had to. So did Al Gore and Obama.
suffragettecity
I have felt Warren was more suited in her role as Senator. But bully for her for running anyway.
Maybe if she baked cookies and passed them around to the media they’d fuck off.
lumpkin
This endless bullshit just completely pisses me off. I absolutely DETEST the US political media. They can’t all disappear into a bottomless hole soon enough.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Light polluted skies…
TriassicSands
I think Warren is smarter than Barack Obama. And she has an array of good policies that make her opponents look virtually substance free.
But there is one exception. Jay Inslee — the only candidate (so far) who has chosen to focus on the most serious problem of all — climate change. Warren, as far as I am aware, hasn’t had much, if anything, to say about climate change.
I think Inslee/Warren would be a stellar ticket. He has to become better known, but he’s done a good job as the governor of Washington. Yes, I want to elect a woman as president. But I want to beat Trump and the Republicans more. I see a “mixed” ticket as virtually inevitable with so many good women running. With Inslee/Warren, he could work on climate change and foreign policy and she could use her obvious strengths in domestic programs. And, no, I don’t see that as sexist. Warren’s heart and expertise are clearly in domestic issues. No one is better. If, as Tom Levenson says above, Warren’s big liability is that the clearly less-intelligent members of the media don’t like her, then having her be VP would blunt most of their negativity, while retaining her expertise for the next administration.
The downside of Inslee being president is he wouldn’t be my governor anymore. Republicans don’t often win the governor’s race in Washington, but they can come frighteningly close. A poor Democratic candidate and a congenial Republican could put a Republican in office. I would consider that a disaster.
Gelfling 545
@sukabi: Damn! That’s a lot of people not to like.
Kelly
Lisa Simpson has to be in her late 30’s by now. She’s smart, honest, eligible. Lisa Simpson 2020!
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: relatively! I just found out that we can’t take any liquids into the flight so I hope they love me asking for water constantly.
sukabi
@Gelfling 545: which is why they’re all in for which ever moron the gop pukes up.
rikyrah
There is a cruise ship off the coast of Norway that sent a Mayday call.
The tweets from people on board have terrified me.
sukabi
@rikyrah: there are actually 2 that are in trouble.
https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/1109581106037379074?s=20
Mr. Kite
@TriassicSands: No way, Warren as VP is a total waste. Take her out of the Senate, for what – a bucket of warm spit?
Ohio Mom
@TriassicSands: I know next to nothing about Inslee but I’ll go with your idea for a Inslee/Warren ticket if you promise Kamala can be Attorney General. Now we just need fabulous Secretary of State…
Seriously, I agree with you that I want to hear contenders talk about climate change and also, foreign relations and I’m not hearing much about either.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
Can you get some Dramamine? I used to use it for hangovers. Good luck!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ohio Mom: Can we please not raid the Senate or Governors for the Cabinet?
Amir Khalid
Over the 2016 campaign, Donald Trump showed himself to be deeply despicable, many times and in a breathtaking variety of ways. Many Republicans accordingly despised him. But they chose to hold their noses and vote for him. You don’t have to be lovable to be President. The toxic bigot and crook now infesting the Oval Office has shown us that.
My American friends will not need reminding that any positive trait a Democratic candidate shows will be treated as a failing by some in the punditocracy. Know your onions on policy? You are a wonk, schoolmarmish, or lost in the weeds. Run a tight ship in your campaign? You’re a martinet. Likeable and relatable? You lack substance and/or gravitas, are running on your personal appeal, or are building a cult of personality. Do regular-person things? You’re a phony play-acting for the rubes.
Don’t let such critics or their criticisms live inside your heads, or they’ll win.
Mary G
Here is a thread about a very good boy.
Bill Arnold
@Ruckus:
This is so weird to me. I want to regularly deal with people smarter than me, especially women/females. It’s exciting/invigorating to have the opportunity to need to seriously game-up to be surprising and/or amusing.
And more importantly, they tend to contribute a lot to whatever they focus on.
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
It is not a recent phenomenon, though I don’t know about recent trends: Anti-Intellectualism in American Life (Richard Hofstadter, 1963)
Amir Khalid
@Mary G:
I couldn’t help thinking: US Cocksman is the finest porn-actor name ever invented.
Ruckus
@sukabi:
Been at sea in that area and it can get rather crappy rather fast. That cruse ship is hard at anchor and with the seas being what the pics show I’d guess the wind is blowing pretty well, making any rescue rather difficult. Not a good situation.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Better a nerd than some washed up jock like Trump, eh? Trump was what, useful for all of five years in his twenties, maybe.
Amir Khalid
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
When was Donald Trump ever a jock? He had those terrible bone spurs in his feet, and it was a miracle he could walk at all.
Omnes Omnibus
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: When was Trump ever an athlete?
Brachiator
@debbie:
But here’s the thing. I think that the liberal media elite liked Obama. They might have bristled a bit when he was too professorial, but they didn’t hold it against him. Conservatives were another matter, but I don’t much care.
The media also had to stifle whatever judgment they might make as they covered Obama’s rising popularity among voters.
Obama also had to introduce himself to and win over black voters.
I still have not jumped into a lot of political coverage, but I get the impression that some of the media simply assume that Warren has the woman vote. This makes it easier for them to be jerks and ignore the evolution of her campaign or the actual reactions of real people to her.
Also, I presume that there are not enough women covering the election and I wonder whether some of the women reporters are as sniffy about Warren as their male colleagues.
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
Trump was such a washout that he didn’t even have athletes’ foot.
Ruckus
@Bill Arnold:
It is weird that people view themselves in relation to everyone else and can’t think to learn and be better so they have to cut everyone else down to their level. Trump does this on a daily basis. He’s such a fucking idiot and thinks he’s the smartest person in whatever room he’s in, which he never is, even when he’s alone. Seen this before but very rarely to his level. Once made a complimentary comment to a world champion and he took it like Trump does every thing, that I was cutting him down. It was strange and somewhat shocking that someone as accomplished as this would see everyone as a threat to him. Then there is Trump, and given his actual accomplishments…… he’s at the level of defensiveness that the world champion was, with not one redeeming quality or accomplishment.
Steve in the ATL
@Amir Khalid: @Omnes Omnibus: IIRC, he was actually a well regarded baseball player in high school. Like Fidel Castro.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
ROTFLMAO
And trying to come up with a line of something that he might have athletes anything of.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: I thought that was Chris Christie.
Brachiator
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Stevenson was the original egghead, mocked and dismissed because he was too brainy. FDR was actually considered by some to be a second rate intellect, but had his brain trust of advisors. Truman was seen as a lightweight. JFK deflected attention from his intellect with his charm, as did Obama.
Clinton was weird, a brainy good ol boy. Again he could use his charisma to disarm critics. Media assholes had their knives out for Gore.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
You call that walking? Looks more like a 95 yr old with a horrible case of arthritis. Or someone overweight and so far out of shape that any movement is pain. I once saw a man at the gym who I’d bet weighed 400 lbs and he didn’t walk nearly as poorly as Trump.
Kay
I will always love her for this:
She failed- the bankruptcy bill passed – but she fought like hell and this was before anyone knew who she was.
Pure public service. She volunteered.
ThresherK
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t like saying good things about Christie, but in a recent all-star charity (FDNY/NYPD/first responders) softball game (maybe at Yankee Stadium) he played third base and made a few plays which could only be called “fatcrobatic” for the combination of skill and chubbiness. Given his age, and the bulk he carried (obvious in the uniform), he didn’t suck.
Ruckus
@Kay:
Given his record, I’m amazed that any democrats actually like Joe for president. He really has been a good politician for his paying constituents in Delaware. Not so much for everyone else. Likable as a human being, just not likable for many of his accomplishments in office. I’ve often wondered why President Obama asked him to run. Was it to give him some political heft that likely wouldn’t hurt him?
Kay
I worry about her as a candidate because political media hate her and we all know how petty and shallow they are, but wouldn’t it be great if she just quietly gained ground based on merit and incredibly hard work?
Yeah, pipe dream I know :)
It’s so hard to choose among these candidates! Not all of them, there’s a few duds, but there’s also quite a few high quality choices!
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus:
I am guessing that it was so that he could do what he did for the eight years he was VP. And Biden was a true Washington insider and carried that seal of approval.
Kay
@Ruckus:
I don’t get it either. He was a middling Democrat, at best. Not the worst but not among the top ten either. Bottom 50%, definitely.
I feel like there’s two basic “lanes”- the “restore” lane and the “disruption” lane. They’re not necessarily ideological- I think Mayor Pete is in the disruption lane, for example, not a Lefty but diagnoses that we need a fundamental rethink and re-jiggering. The people who think we need a profound shake up and those who think we can go back to pre-Trump.
I am the former, which surprises me because I think of myself as quite conventional. I don’t think we can go back to pre-Trump. Trump to me signals the end of something. We’re at rock bottom. Time for a new start. I think the “disruption” people see Trump as an opportunity and that appeals to me.
Ruckus
@Kay:
I think we have the most high quality candidates that I’ve ever seen. We’ve had one at a time but Warren, Harris, I’m putting Abrams in the top as well, Mayor Pete, Beto, and some long shots like Castro and Booker really make up an amazing field. I’m hoping that it doesn’t split the field badly, that people play well together and we end up with a decent candidate.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
That pretty much sums up my feelings as well, a safe back room politician.
NotMax
@Ruckus
The reasons put forth at the time were that he had foreign policy experience which Obama lacked and that his long tenure would allow him to work well with the Senate and be a major help greasing the skids there.
How’d that work out? (rhetorical question)
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus:
Everyone is still playing nice. We do have a long haul in front of us, but I am getting the impression that actual Democrat who is running is trying to appeal to voters on their own merits rather than tearing into one another. Eyes on the prize.
Ruckus
@Kay:
I feel the same way.
The republican party has fallen farther than I thought possible and I haven’t given them much credit for decades. Which I think they have easily earned my giving them an F- as far as governing goes. They have proven how badly they want to end government by nominating one of the most useless humans on the planet and working with Vlad to get him in office. I can’t tell if it’s gross stupidity or gross maliciousness, and it’s quite possible it’s both in over abundance. Things need to be shaken up and shaken up hard. We can not continue with half the country figuratively and literally shooting themselves in various necessary body parts. A number of us live here and would like it to be an actual livable country.
Kay
@Ruckus:
They think Trump is weak or they wouldn’t be running. They’re the most competitive people in the world- they smell blood in the water. If they didn’t we wouldn’t have this many senators running. It’s hard to beat an incumbent with an okay economy. But they think they can, because they think this incumbent is fundamentally weak. The younger ones could wait for an open race, but they aren’t.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think so as well, I’m just thinking, this is a long fight and one we can’t afford to lose, but a number of someones are going to not be the next president or vice president. I want them to work with the nominee and get it done because it’s far more important it’s one of them than the opposition. And all but Warren are young enough to continue ahead, with Harris second to that.
Citizen Alan
@James E Powell:
I’m strangely reminded of my last year teaching in a public school before law school when a fellow teacher warned me that I’d probably ruined my working relationship with the principal by using the word “pedagogical” casually in front of him. Apparently, he’d gotten his job through nepotism, and he was known to become intensely hostile towards teachers who were clearly smarter than him.
Citizen Alan
@Ohio Mom:
I would vote for Pete just to cause Evangelicals to stroke out in rage.
Kay
@Ruckus:
I think the risk of hanging on or trying to “return” now outweighs the risk of big change. It’s really that simple.
But it’s not ideological. Booker is to me a centrist “return” candidate while Mayor Pete is a centrist “disrupt” candidate.
Ruckus
@Kay:
They might be thinking that not only is he weak, he’s worse than totally useless, he’s harming us badly and almost any one with two brain cells to rub together could be a better president. But yes this is an unprecedented time in US politics. Change is vital, restoration of a lot is necessary and this may be their best shot.
I believe they would normally be referred to as sharks. I’m not saying that’s bad at all, there is enough difference to make it quite interesting, I just hope that when it shakes out, and of course it will, that the sharks actually work against their nature and work together.
Ruckus
@Kay:
Same page.
Ruckus
@Citizen Alan:
A nice side effect.
sukabi
@Ruckus: the other one isn’t anchored. There’s video taken by passengers…they’ll be lucky if they get them all out before it goes tits up.
https://twitter.com/alexus309/status/1109530668290183172?s=20
James E Powell
@dmsilev:
I wasn’t thinking of it as a selling point or even a message to voters. I meant it as something that everyone except Senator Warren would say to reporters, editors, cable host, right wing cable chimps, etc.
Ruckus
@sukabi:
1300 people, 8 helicopters. The math isn’t good.
The ocean is a very harsh mistress, to steal a line from somewhere. I’ve been in heavy, winter Atlantic storms. And even in normal winter in that part of the world it can get/be dicy in a heartbeat. We once towed a destroyer escort that lost power in that part of the world, for, if I remember 2 days before a sea going tug meet us and took her off our hands. It was horrible on that ship, the power does a lot of stabilizing and without it the ship was pitching and rolling about twice what we were. I can’t imagine what it was like on there and I could see it happening.
Procopius
Elizabeth Warren has had some very good clips on YouTube. I remember one, in particular, where she chopped the CEO of Wells Fargo to pieces, so I know she is as good an interrogator as AOC and she’s old enough to run for President. I confess I think she’d be more effective where she is now, in the Senate, but I’d vote for her in a heartbeat, joyful I didn’t have to choose the lesser evil. I’d prefer Bernie, but his age is a problem.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: I had a couple of people in the past ask me why I didn’t join the navy. Your comment pretty much sums it up.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
It was good experience. It trained me up for a life with republican leadership in that one learns that no matter how hard you work, no matter how diligent you are, shit can and will go wrong in a heartbeat and it’s almost always a human failure. Also how to live with 300 smelly assholes, who think the same of you and not have a desire to kill more than one or two of them. I got to meet some exceptional people and some absolute morons, how to work under trying conditions and survive, how to smile in the face of mountains of bullshit and probably most important, not to take one’s self too seriously.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: Yeah, but in the army, one is less likely to sink.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
But at the time, more likely to get shot. Six or half dozen.
nativeprof
@patrick II: I get what you’re saying, but it seems like Warren already has a hook that’s more effective than any other candidate so far. All her economic proposals boil down to the basic idea of saving capitalism from itself. Here’s a direct quote from an interview:
“I am a capitalist. Come on. I believe in markets. What I don’t believe in is theft, what I don’t believe in is cheating. That’s where the difference is. I love what markets can do, I love what functioning economies can do. They are what make us rich, they are what create opportunity. But only fair markets, markets with rules. Markets without rules is about the rich take it all, it’s about the powerful get all of it. And that’s what’s gone wrong in America.”
This seems like exactly the right message. Americans don’t want a socialist revolution. If we’re in a “return to normalcy” election, Warren is the only one (other than Mayor Pete) who is really looking past Trump to the systematic economic insanity that drove us into the recession. She is like the FDR of our time.
That said, if it turns out to be a knife fight between Biden and Sanders, I’m pulling the lever for Joe.
Just Chuck
@Brachiator:
Putting an inveterate shitbird like Lieberman on the ticket didn’t help either.
patrick II
@nativeprof:
I would like to see her boil that paragraph down to a sentence, or a phrase, and say it every time she speaks.
Something like “A Fair Economy For America”, or something hopefully better, and then expand that theme as she did in the rest of that paragraph. And then go from there to her more detailed Fair policies. But the point is a paragraph isn’t a hook, no matter how much we both like it.
Rugosa
People who say Warren lacks charisma must never have had a good teacher. (I pity them.)