We’ve got a dishwasher again, hallelujah Jeebus. It’s not installed yet. It isn’t even upstairs where it will eventually live. But it’s here, and after washing dishes by hand for five months — including after holiday dinners for 18 people — I’m thrilled that it will be installed this weekend, even if installation will be a knuckle-scraping bitch.
It’s not that I mind washing dishes by hand all that much. Over the holidays, I cut down on the volume by serving meals on extra-fancy disposable plates and had plenty of help with washing up. But what I love most about dishwashers is that they give you a place to stash dirty plates, cups, utensils, etc., out of sight until you’re ready to run the appliance instead of either constantly washing dishes or enduring the nagging guilt of dirty dishes in the sink. Maybe it’s just me.
Anyhoo, when we moved here last fall and discovered that the dishwasher that came with the place was a piece of junk, I thought it would be a simple thing to have it replaced. The mister and I have installed a dishwasher or two in our day, cursing and nicking up countertops and mashing fingers along the way. But when we had to replace a dishwasher at our old house a few years ago, I called Home Depot, and they brought a new one, installed it and hauled the old one away. I enjoyed that experience more than the DIY approach, so I had hoped to replicate that here.
But I soon discovered that there’s a hidden dishwasher industrial complex that is intent on funneling customers to expensive machines if they want the full service treatment. Basically, you have to buy a top-of-the-line machine to have it delivered and installed, but the home improvement people won’t just tell you that. They employ devious cons to steer you toward the high-dollar merchandise, and they flat-out lie and make you question your own sanity.
Our local Lowe’s, the closest big-box, had a unique strategy; the woman I spoke to there simply pretended that there is no such thing as a dishwasher in the size I require (a weird size, to be fair) under $700. I knew this to be untrue since I’d Googled machines earlier and seen them listed for less than $400, but she brazenly told me to my face that the products I’d seen online did not exist. While the conversation quickly established that Lowe’s doesn’t carry them, I knew I’d seen them somewhere. I tried to use my phone, which was connected to the Lowe’s courtesy WiFi, to search Home Depot’s product line. But the fuckers block competitor websites, and cell service is non-existent inside the store. So, I left.
Once back home, I found the under-$400 dishwashers listed at Home Depot. Okay, I thought. It’s a little further, but they have the dishwasher I want. I tried to order it online and use the Home Services thingy to order installation and removal as well, but the page kept crashing. So I called Home Depot, and the person I spoke to there said it was because I was trying to order a dishwasher that didn’t exist. I got a glimpse of the Matrix in that moment, and it shook me to my core.
Wait, I said, to the Home Depot dude — here’s the SKU — I’m looking right at it on your website! I swear I am not crazy — it’s real! What’s the brand, he asked. I told him. Never heard of it, he replied. But-but-but the SKU, I remonstrated. I’ll look into it and call you back, he said. He did call back, and while he claimed he believed me when I told him this dishwasher existed on the customer-facing Home Depot site, he told me it did not exist on the internal Home Depot site.
I was given to understand that the product I was trying to acquire is an un-dishwasher that cannot be ordered by store personnel and paired with a delivery and installation package. I asked if I could order it to be delivered to my house and have someone from Home Depot meet the appliance here, install it and haul the old one away. Nope, he said. You’ll have to arrange your own handyman. Or order a $700 dishwasher, which we’ll be glad to deliver and install.
Well, fuck that noise. I ordered the damned dishwasher, which arrived yesterday via UPS. The UPS dude was kind enough to cart it to the downstairs storage room. This weekend, my husband and I will schlep the damned thing up the stairs even though we’re too goddamned old for that sort of thing, and then we will install it, cursing and nicking countertops and mashing fingers and hopefully not electrocuting ourselves or flooding the house. Then we’ll haul the old one off ourselves. Because that’s how the dishwasher industrial complex works.
Open thread!
OzarkHillbilly
Blech!
debbie
Congratulations! I usually have to hand-wash a dish or two every day, but it sure beats having to hand-wash everything.
Rabble Arouser
I feel seen with this post. We just purchased our first home together (yay!), but we’ve had to replace washer, dryer, fridge and dishwasher in very short order. These stores indeed are playing some kind of diabolical game with their “value” products.
debit
When I was growing up and had to wash the dishes after every meal I bitterly complained about not having a dishwasher. Guess what my parents got the week after I moved out?
Weirdly, I don’t mind doing them by hand now. It’s actually kind of relaxing.
Jager
Apparently, there is a ‘Washer Industrial Complex” as well. We have a three year old Whirlpool washer, that Lowes told me is impossible to repair. I got a local repairman out, He fixed it in 10 minutes.
Sonoran
At our house, we call the dishwasher “the electric china cabinet.” I don’t mind washing dishes by hand, but I don’t have the counter space to dry them. Good luck with your installation.
PaulWartenberg
You need to call in every college-age relative you have to help you lug that thing up the stairs.
Skepticat
You have my empathy. Try exactly the same thing living on a tiny desert (homes only) out island in the Bahamas, where there are no big-box–or even big–stores even on the “big island” but there is a 12 percent VAT. I’m going through dishwasher/stove hell now, and it ain’t fun. (Yes, there are compensations.)
HypersphericalCow
I bought a new dishwasher a few years ago (stainless! fancy!). I think I’ve used it three times since then. I bought it with a new oven and fridge, as part of a whole kitchen renovation project (the quartz countertops are pretty great). Home appliances are such a racket; I’m pretty sure the air filter in my refrigerator isn’t filtering a damn thing.
My thinking back then: seeing how much this all cost, I’m not going to add insult to injury by hiring a plumber to connect the water hookups – I can do that myself, I’ve got some tools, I watched a couple videos on YouTube, I’ve got this.
Things that I learned:
– When I turned on the dishwasher? You need to make sure that seal to the drain pipe is *really* tight.
– 1/4″ water line to the fridge icemaker? *tighten, tighten* That seems tight enough. *open valve, Old Faithful is drenching my kitchen* Okay, tighter than that.
In short, if you ever see a professional do something, and think, “Oh, I can do that, this will be easy”, take a moment to pause and reconsider.
Inspectrix
We need to pick out a new toilet this weekend. If there’s a toilet-industrial-complex to beware of, please chime in! Anyone with experience with the dual flush options?
eclare
When I was growing up, my mother refused to use a dishwasher, thus I was the dishwasher and “air dry” was not allowed. I detest washing dishes by hand to this day. I spent the money for a Bosch. It is six years old now, and I would do it again.
ETA> As a single female with no repair skills, I pretty much had to get Lowe’s to install and cart away the old one.
TaMara (HFG)
Well, that sucks. I would never attempt to install my own appliances.
Maybe because I just needed a standard size, but I had a $450 one delivered and installed (for $100), the old one removed and a year warranty on the installation from Lowes. My washer and dryer (decidedly on the low end of the HE sets – I don’t do electronic panels if I can help it – so getting dials on both meant they were cheaper than the ones that look like a plane cockpit) were installed free from Lowes.
But if you want to talk about a complete scam – replacing my hot water heater was ridiculously expensive for two hours of labor and a pretty run of the mill appliance.
Let’s face it, homeownership is a series of repairs and extra expenses wrapped in four walls and a (leaky) roof.
Betty
I hope the installation goes well. So many rackets out there primarily because they have such limited competition. We need Elizabeth Warren to the rescue.
Betty Cracker
@TaMara (HFG): We have to replace the hot water heater next, and I already know we’re going to get screwed on that. It’s a job we wouldn’t attempt ourselves. In this county, you have to have a permit for a new hot water heater! No wonder the one we’ll be replacing was installed in 1986 — yes, I am not making that up 19 and fucking 86. It’s going to blow any day now…
TaMara (HFG)
@Inspectrix: We have this one and the dual flush works very well and it was easy to install (yes, I was okay with installing that – no gas or electric to worry about)
I like the one piece design, so easy to keep clean.
JGabriel
Betty Cracker @ Top: Wait, I said, to the Home Depot dude — here’s the SKU — I’m looking right at it on your website! I swear I am not crazy — it’s real! What’s the brand, he asked. I told him. Never heard of it, he replied. But-but-but the SKU, I remonstrated.
It’s all Trump’s fault.
He’s set a shining new example in blatant gaslighting for corporations to aspire to, and aspire they do – and achieve.
TaMara (HFG)
@Betty Cracker: My condolences! Mine broke on Christmas day…my fault, I knew it was going to go any day, but thought I’d nurse it. So Santa rewarded me thusly. I DID NOT have it replaced that day. I can only imagine what that would have cost. LOL
JGabriel
Okay, wait, I swear I put a quote box around the quote from Betty in my comment above. What’s going on?
A Ghost To Most
@Inspectrix: We have them. No problems. They are Toto.
TaMara (HFG)
@JGabriel: Especially Home Depot – owned by a Trump loving thief.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: Our tenant/neighbor is done with the floor. The material I got at Lowes was the same dimension as what I had but not near the quality. Anyway his dad came over today and I got to shootin the shit with the dude and it turns out he lived in Champaign while working as an electrician at the nuke plant at Clinton. I had a lot of friends who were laborers on that job and it was really fun talking with him. His son had no idea he had lived in my hometown!
Barbara
I go to my local appliance dealer, and I admit that the one bought is not cheap but it is virtually silent and is the best one I have ever owned. At least untl mice chewed through the hose to the drain. When we asked for metal hose to replace the original plastic stuff we were told that it would nullify rhe warranty because it was not OME by the first guy, and then when the part came in the second guy said, yep, that’s true, but he had seen this enough times that he now wraps his plastic hose in metal tape, which he did for us as well. Another dishwasher repair guy clued me in to using vinegar to extend the life and effectiveness of the machine. So overall I have been happy with paying the higher price to get better service, but I must say that is a pretty disappointing turn of events for both of the big box stores.
raven
@Betty Cracker: The new, more eco friendly, units suck. We have to was everything on pots and pans or they don’t get clean.
dmsilev
When I bought my current place, the previous owners had just redone the kitchen so I’m good there. The laundry, however, is another story. Both units still work, but for how long is an open question. And of course it’s a gas dryer with no easy/cheap way of putting in a suitable circuit for an electric unit, which _really_ constrains the possible choices if/when I need to replace. Not looking forward to that inevitability.
At least with a gas unit, there’s no question about whether or not to pay for installation. Yes. Gas is a Don’t Fuck With thing.
A Ghost To Most
@Betty Cracker: Don’t get suckered with a tankless. Ours needs disassembling and cleaning periodically, at 2K a pop.
Barbara
@Betty Cracker: Now is the time, before it blows, to investigate tankless options. They sometimes require additional steps you aren’t willing to wait for once the appliance actually breaks.
zhena gogolia
We have an ancient dishwasher that we never use. I suppose if we replace it I’ll just get the top-of-the-line model and have them install it. No way could we do that, forget it.
Barbara
@raven: Have you tried using vinegar to clean the machine occasionally? This can make a big difference.
TaMara (HFG)
@raven: I have a Bosch and while I’m not happy with how the bottom rack hold my plates and bowls (too cramped), I can put anything in it and it comes out clean. I do rinse egg and cat food dishes because they are like cement. It was energy efficient enough that I got a rebate. So I think it depends on the brand.
FredW
You actually need two dishwashers, one clean and one dirty. When you need a plate or glass, take it from the clean and when done put it in the dirty. When the dirty one is full (or you run of of something clean) wash it and repeat. No wasting time putting stuff away!
PsiFighter37
When I was down south seeing clients, I went to a shooting range and shot a gun (well, 4 guns to be exact) for the first time ever. While it was a fun experience – once I realized that shooting various types of guns was absolutely nothing like it’s portrayed either on TV or in video games – is that being allowed to carry one of these without a permit or a license is absolutely bonkers. I saw that Ohio, I think it is, is about to pass a law allowing folks to carry guns without a permit, or something to that effect. Absolutely crazy.
Barbara
@TaMara (HFG): Asko here, same situation. It holds an amazing quantity of dishes and cleans incredibly well. But it was not cheap.
Avalune
We just paid $400 for a microwave replacement in the property we rent out because we haven’t been able to talk anyone into burning it down (or buy it). For a microwave!
X $ for the convenience of having a property manager and therefore having little recourse outside what she suggests.
X $ because it IS hardwired and part of the stove hood.
Still salty.
donnah
Well, I guess I’m the odd person out, because I’ve lived in two different houses over the past forty years and have never had a dishwasher. I entertain over the holidays with my “good dishes” and honestly don’t mind washing and drying them. Someone always helps and it’s a time to unwind and chat.
My husband and I showed our sons how to wash and dry dishes when they were young and they took over for a while, but occasionally I’d step up and do the dishes, and was pleased when they thanked me for it. My husband and I are empty nesters now and I usually wash them and leave them to dry on the rack, but he occasionally does them, which is nice.
Now, washing windows, that’s a chore I hate…
TaMara (HFG)
@A Ghost To Most: Definitely recommend doing lots of homework on a tankless. I don’t know if the newer ones need to be cleaned (they changed the internal material recently) BUT OMG, I wanted one and priced it over the summer – it was going to cost three times more than (what was already astronomical) my regular new water heater. There was not enough savings to make up for that extra cost.
If I had to pay to have it cleaned after that…ugh.
Jager
Our house was built in 1922. Know what the best and most reliable appliance in the house is? The 1936 kerosene 5 burner stove, the previous owner had it converted to gas. Works like a dream. We replaced our hot water heater 3 weeks ago. The first estimate was $1800. The lowest 1200. I bought a 625.00 heater online, a local handyman picked it up in his truck, I helped him install it (mostly me standing around handing him tools) total bill was $900.
Avalune
Also I’m in love with the photo for this post.
dww44
I love dishwashers and we had installed the 2nd one (a Sears/Kenmore one for under $500.00) a couple of years ago after almost 35 years in our home. That must be a Florida thing to get that sort of run around from your Big Box stores? Not my experience here one state up. Lowe’s has signs up that they will do the install and removal of the old for, say a $50.00 charge, which is always worth it to me. Admittedly this was a couple of years ago.
Having a place to stash dirty dishes until we are ready to run a load, which is generally every other day, is one of the very best things about them, but there’s also the fact that a dish washer actually cleans and sanitizes my dishes and is particularly effective on the plastic storage dishes, which are always slightly greasy and not really clean after a hand wash.
TaMara (HFG)
@PsiFighter37: Oklahoma. So, yeah, I’ll do what I can to drive around that state if needed.
A Ghost To Most
@PsiFighter37: Your frame of reference, as you state, is limited. The reality is far more complicated.
VOR
Actually, this doesn’t surprise me much. If you look at the Home Depot website, you will see a distinction between the items available online only and the items available in-store. The guy could have been telling you the truth – his internal system may only show the in-store products. And their system probably isn’t smart enough to connect a service booked in store with a product ordered on line and shipped to the store for pick-up. You need a way to order the service online for a product purchased online. And of course anything unusual, like an uncommon size, won’t be an in-store product. My guess is less conspiracy, more lack of vision.
I bought my current dishwasher about 18 months ago from a local appliance specialist. They had the ability to order lots of special items which were not in the local store, from a bunch of vendors. I wound up with a Bosch which was admittedly pretty high end. Really, really quiet – I have to concentrate if I want to hear it running. One of Consumer Report’s top rated. They took the old one away and installed the new one while I drank coffee. I was worried because I have quartz composite counters which need special tools, but the guy had seen it before and knew what to do. I think I had about 1/8-1/16th inch clearance so am not certain I could have done the installation myself, even aside from the plumbing issues. The new one has a sealed bottom so even if something internal fails it won’t leak everywhere and ruin my kitchen floor again.
L85NJGT
They run in store and online as separate biz units with unique customer bases. Online shoppers are more price sensitive, so lower prices. They make up the difference by upcharging on models & features not available in stores, and charging for install and haul away.
A Ghost To Most
@TaMara (HFG): It was here when we bought the house. Given the previous owner’s penchant for scrounging, it may be a commercial unit, like the swamp cooler. The flooring used to be the basketball court at Arvada West (I was informed).
ixnay
@eclare: We love our Bosch. So quiet that it needs a light directed to the floor so you know it is running. The 30 minute short cycle handles just about everything, no pre-rinse. No, I have no financial connection to Bosch.
geg6
@Jager:
There’s a cook top industrial complex, too. Our gas cook top died, so we looked for a new one that cost less than the ridiculously expensive ones the big box stores have on display. Now we’re talking a cook top, not a whole stove, mind you. The least expensive one we found on display was $800.
So we went online and found what we needed on the Lowe’s site for a little over $300. Went back to the store and asked about it. We were told it didn’t exist. Showed the salesperson the one online and, after looking in their system, he still said it did not exist. So we went home and tried to order online. But the website said we had to order through the store and have it delivered there. Went back to store and met a new salesperson who said he’d never heard of such a thing and still couldn’t find it in their system. Made enough of a fuss that the manager was called to help. Finally, he contacted someone at HQ who told him these cook tops were special orders and were only manufactured when someone ordered one. So we got it ordered and they then asked if we wanted installation. As you can imagine, we said no thanks. My John and his brother are very handy (they installed a new water heater a couple of years ago). Two weeks later, we picked up our cook top at the store and it was installed within the hour. It’s a fine cook top and was a good deal as far as price. But what a pain the ass. Most people would have said fuck it and just spent the extra $400 or $500 dollars. But I’m cheap and no fucking way were they going to pull a bait and switch on me!
MomSense
Dishwasher Industrial Complex or DIC.
Aleta
Maybe I could accept the high prices, and the strangely complicated installation, and not getting the basics I wanted (even though that all puts me on the brink) … if I was sure the damn thing would last so I wouldn’t have to do it again in 3-7 years.
MelissaM
A few years ago we got a new dishwasher from Best Buy. They were having a sale on Bosch plus free delivery plus free installation. I didn’t get the lowest end model, but darn close, about $560 after taxes. I’m very happy with it, and really with the freebies, it was a no-brainer replacement (we replaced a cheap-o plastic tub thing.)
eclaree
@Jager: My house was built in 1926, most reliable appliance is the boiler in the basement that is taller than I am and dates back to the 40’s or 50’s. Love radiator heat, plus radiators make excellent drying racks!
eclare
@Jager: My house was built in 1926, and the most reliable appliance is the boiler in the basement that is taller than I am and dates back to the 40’s or 50’s. Love radiator heat, plus radiators make excellent drying racks!
PJ
@Betty Cracker: if you are getting a new heater, get one with a polysulfone dip tube (or get the plumber to remove the polypropylene one from the new model and install a polysulfone tube) – it will last years longer, and the part costs under $20.
Doug R
As a 22 year employee of a competitor to UPS (same union, same local) I know service is supposed to door to door and that drivers are under EXTREME time pressure.
I hope you gave him a hearty tip.
Betty Cracker
@geg6:
That’s exactly what they’re counting on, I think. There are a lot of retirees in this area, so it probably works more often than not.
@PJ: Good to know — thanks!
Ruckus
Just moved a month ago and had to purchase a microwave. Last place it was built in so new it is. Tried to order one online at Lowes to be shipped to the store. Day it was to arrive I call store, “It’s on the truck being unloaded.” Go to store to pick it up later, it’s not on the truck, it will be another week to arrive. Cancel order. On line again to look at microwaves. Everything in my size range is listed, but either doesn’t exist or has to be ordered and will maybe show up sometime in the future, if I can stand on one foot and hold my breath for two weeks. Go to BestBuy and pick up an LG, not really what I want. Best microwave ever owned and I go back to the 80s with an Amana at work and have owned several since. One of the new LG inverter models, cooks better, much more even than I’ve ever seen. Recommended.
ThresherK
The only time we replaced a dishwasher, it was a very old one with a modern one that had extra vertical space inside. That space came at the expense of working / wiggle / hand access room underneath the front plate, and made it a pain to install, per my Dad–a very handy man whose opinion is to be trusted on such matters.
ThresherK
@Ruckus: “Your microwave is on the roof…”
Doug R
@Betty Cracker: Hot water heaters can be dangerous if the safeties are not working properly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68p4ngS-yME
opiejeanne
@eclare: We bought a Bosch when we moved into this house in 2010 and have been very happy with it. It’s really very quiet and gets the job done in about 40 minutes most of the time.
I shopped at Lowe’s and Home Depot, wrote down prices and stock numbers, then went to an appliance store who had similar appliances and beat the prices at the two Big Box stores, installed and hauled away the old one.
I hated washing dishes when I was a kid, but Mom did most of the washing, my sister and I took turns drying. They bought a dishwasher after we had both moved out of the house.
A Ghost To Most
@Ruckus: We bought an Amana microwave in 1983, and that sucker was indestructible. It worked for over 20 years.
opiejeanne
@A Ghost To Most: WTF? $2k to disassemble and clean?That’s the cost of a new one! We have a tankless water heater that’s been in the house for more than ten years and we’ve never had to do that to it.
PJ
@PJ: in accelerated testing, polysulfone will not break down in hot water (not for decades, anyway, longer than the tank for sure), whereas all polypropylene breaks down in hot water sooner or later ( probably just after your warranty has expired.) But polysulfone tubes cost about $1 more to make, so manufacturers put polypropylene in their cheaper models.
Kayla Rudbek
@Inspectrix: we replaced all of our toilets with dual-flush ones (the handle is what controls the amount of water with our model). We also made sure to get the model with anti-overflow features. I don’t remember which model we bought but I know that we went through Home Depot. So far they have all worked fine.
At some point we need to redo pretty much all our plumbing as we have that god awful polybutylene piping which fails from the inside out, particularly at the joints/valves. We already have had problems with the manifold and the main line into the home failing.
A Ghost To Most
@opiejeanne: Do you have soft water, or a water softener? Our water is pretty hard, so lots of scale even with filters.
Aleta
@PJ: “planned obsolescence” ?
brettvk
@Inspectrix: I retrofitted this to a existing single-flush toilet in 2010 and replaced it once, 2 years ago. Easy DIY and much cheaper than the dual-flush toilets I’ve seen.
joel hanes
Sears would have given you a choice of brands, and would have installed any of them, and even today is happy to maintain any appliance in your home.
We’ll miss them when they’re gone.
trollhattan
Seems like every homeowner either just bought a major appliance or is shopping for a major appliance–it’s another cycle of life.
We redid the kitchen after several years tolerating the cheap ones that came with the house, and no dishwasher because the cabinets were too shallow. I also fooking hate washing dishes.
We went with mid to high-end appliances because what the hell, we’re already spending all this home improvement money (think of the equity!) and besides, it’s not “real” money–it’s a home improvement line-o-credit. Other than the fridge door hinge breaking at year ten, dropping the door on my foot, everything else lasted nearly twenty. Dishwasher went next–it still “worked” but dishes did not come clean despite the repair dude not finding anything to fix. Suspect the pump was anemic. Replacement is great and utterly silent and the dishes look glorious. So quiet we only hear the drain. Now the range has suffered the indignity of invading liquid borking the control circuit board, a part that no longer exists on the shelf. Our appliance dealer found a deal for a same-brand replacement two grand less than everybody else lists it, and the spouse put it on her card before they said “Oops, phantom deal!” I’ll believe it when it arrives. Also, our sales tax goes up a percent come Monday.
Water heaters. We put a tankless in our addition and it has been flawless, albeit with intermittent use. We used it full time while remodeling the main bathroom (an unexpected “surprise”) and endless hot showers cannot be forgotten once you’ve experienced them. Am ignorant of routine maintenance, it just sits there on the wall, ten years on.
When the main water heater sprang a leak we found out the ARB has emissions limits requiring a replacement thatt uses entirely different technology. Ugh. Tried to switch in a tankless but one large enough for the entire house requires massive gas supply on startup and we didn’t have the capacity. Ended up with a traditional tank with a blower unit on top. The only benefit it a plastic vent pipe instead of the old metal chimney. Two grand, installed. I was expecting three hundred.
I know full well that the replacement range will tell the washer and dryer “Tag, you’re it.” And we’ll again be off to the races.
Why is the dishwasher going upstairs? Your house built upside down?
PJ
@Aleta: because most people aren’t aware of the issue, when their heater fails, they buy a new a whole new heater, when in fact the problem may be that only the dip tube has failed, which can be replaced for under $20 plus elbow grease (or the cost of a plumber to flush the tank and install the new tube).
Ruckus
@geg6:
Like every big chain since Wally World started, the concept is to drive competitors out of business and then jack prices until you bleed. See any local lumber yards around anymore? Local appliance stores? Want something not in the store, maybe it’s price or style or function but they don’t carry it so getting it is at least 5 times more hassle and replacing it is the same all over again. And because it has to be built to a price because it has to be build on a fast, cheap assembly line so that anyone will purchase whatever it is at a good profit margin and many countries have different energy supply systems, each market area needs different components…. And there has to be choices, to confuse/sway the buyer into the more expensive models, which cost not that much more to build because the operating guts are often the very same but the cosmetic stuff is not, but have higher profit margins…..
I work on production tooling for building airplanes and medical things for better living. If you had to pay for the production of something that has the operating level that an airplane or medical device is supposed to have, it would cost even more than what you now pay. Probably far more. Add on that selling profit margin…..
Kent
Pro Tip.
Find your best local independent appliance repair guy and let him do this shit.
We have this local guy who is an immigrant from Romania or Bulgaria. I forgot. He has a set of tools that look more appropriate for disarming nuclear bombs. He can tear any appliance open, run some voltage, conductivity, and capacitance tests, and find that one burnt-out capaciter or switch somewhere in the circuitry and replace it from his bottomless supply of salvaged electronics parts.
When our integrated oven/microwave unit went out he was like: “no, no….I find you new one” and through his web of contacts he mysteriously found the exact right discontinued unit that matched the rest of our kitchen design and had it installed and working a couple days later.
Because that’s the other thing the appliance manufacturers and dealers do. They figure out exactly how long these things last and then re-design them at exactly the right intervals so that when yours finally goes out the new ones all have different handles and trim and don’t match the rest of the kitchen (even thought the guts are basically the same).
debbie
A line of seven helicopters just flew by at low speed and in single file. What apocalypse is nigh?
opiejeanne
@A Ghost To Most: I think our water is pretty hard, and there’s no water softener.
The only problem with the thing is that the owner, when she replaced the standard tank water heater, she bought the smaller of the two sizes available at the time and should have bought the larger, the one that cost $2k. So we have to be a little wary of running a shower while the dishwasher is running. We either run a load of dishes during the day or use the timer on the dishwasher and set it for the wee hours.
The house is 24 years old now, we bought it when it was only 15 years old but it needed a ton of work; we think it was built as mostly a shell and she finished the interior herself. Badly, in some cases. We’ve addressed almost all of it now, just one bathroom needs a do-over. The master bath has a huge Jacuzzi tub that needs to come out, not least of which is that the way it’s installed makes it hard to get into for almost elderly persons living here.
opiejeanne
@trollhattan: I’m guessing the house is built a story above ground level, maybe because she lives in a swamp.
Ruckus
@PJ:
The dip tube is a part that has to fail from it’s use. It “wears” out. So do other parts of the water heater except most dip tubes can be replaced once or twice before the rest of the heater needs replacing. Your advice to change it to a better quality (material) one for almost nothing is a great one. And of course the local water quality makes a difference in life expectancy of a water heater. And can in any water using appliance.
Ruckus
@A Ghost To Most:
Mine also. Was good/great for the technology level in the 80s but an energy hog and noisy. Worked though. Hot Food In Seconds!!!!
The Pale Scot
@Inspectrix:
Besides size, note how the thing is shaped, I hate all those decorative curlicues and crevices, that I then have to get down on my knees to clean. It’s a toilet god damn it, if I want to see art I’ll go to MOMA.
trollhattan
@opiejeanne:
It does make me wonder–is the first floor sacrificial? A decoy to termites?
cain
@Jager:
Be sure to check youtube videos, you can fix them yourslef. My (ex) wife fixed our washer, was motivated enough to purchase the electrical components and unsolder and solder what was needed and got it going. I was really proud of her. We put off the purchase for another 2-3 years or so.
Kelly
My first dishwasher install was in the first house I bought, in 1985. The #@%#! barely reachable, compression fitting for the hot water intake leaked a little every time I ran it. About a teaspoon of water so I slipped a cake pan under it as a temporary measure. The water evaporated between loads so after a few more futile attempts I left it. Turned out to be a good place for a mouse trap. Caught the wee beasties at the watering hole. Left it that way when I sold the house. Whoever installed the next one probably still tells the story.
Over the last 15~20 years I’ve used braided stainless steel connector lines with threaded ends or Sharkbite solderless copper pipe connectors. Swapping an electric water heater with those connectors is a very reasonable do it yourself job. Bosch dishwasher here. Works great.
Aardvark Cheeselog
I was able to get a dishwasher at Lowe’s last year, and get it delivered and installed with the dead one carted away, without the kind of hassle you’re describing. But I live in a newer house that presumably has the standard size slot for dishwashers and wasn’t trying to get the cheapest one that I could (though still < $700).
The thing that pisses me off about it is that I'm convinced the design work on the racks was done by some guy who himself has never loaded a dishwasher, working on specs provided by people who have even less understanding of how they're actually used.
The manual, when I finally found it on the GE web site, makes it clear that the manufacturer is proud that it accommodates an entire 12 place set of 5 piece-per-setting dinnerware. Which is something that actual people need to do approximately never. Fitting the pots and utensils used to actually prepare the food for 3 people is often not feasible.
Paul T
I guess Lowes and HD have killed all the plumbers near where you live.
TaMara (HFG)
@Kent: Jealous.
I'll be Frank
There is no free lunch and there is no free delivery no?
leeleeFL
@Jager: If an s3ppliance is out of warranty, just call the best local person you can find. They ONLY want to fix it. They have no other agenda, bless their hearts. Maybe not cheap, but usually competitive.
Grover Gardner
I had an awful experience trying to buy an appliance at Lowe’s. Our old Maytag convection oven died and I was trying to avoid paying $1800 for a new one. Found a GE at Lowe’s on sale for $1200. Granted, it was close to closing time, but the appliance lady seemed in an awful big hurry to close her register. We paid for a $50 installation call, and I *assumed* we had ordered the oven. After five days I called back and they said oh sorry, we’ll get someone out there. What oven did you order? Well, it turns out that no order was placed, and the sale was OVER! I complained loudly and the salesperson said they would honor the sale price, so I placed an order. A week later I called again. Oh, that product is discontinued! I went back to the store and got a refund for the $50. Ridiculous.
So I drove over to our little Sears and there was a nice Maytag with a few dings for $800. Stuck it in the SUV and had my neighbor help install it. It’s worked fine ever since. Now they’re closing our Sears, boo.
StringOnAStick
When we remodeled our kitchen 2years ago I reviewed piles of Consumer Reports to decide on the replacement appliances. We ended up with Frigidaire Gallery as the top rated in the moderate category. We mostly use a dishwasher as a drying rack so we didn’t test it in time and now I’m convinced the heating element for drying dishes has never worked. The ice maker in the refrigerator a always ices up so we never use that either. Top of the line!
Betty Cracker
@joel hanes: Sears didn’t have the size dishwasher I need.
@opiejeanne: Bingo! It’s a stilt house. The bottom floor is enclosed, and we use it as people up north use basements — game room, storage, that sort of thing.
Ramalama
I should make all of these comments a gigunda PDF file so I can refer to it when the time comes round for me to deal with failing house parts.
Betty Cracker
@Paul T: Au contraire — the local plumbers all drive 2019 BMWs, and if you give them thousands of dollars in advance, they may deign to show up to install your new shower unit and hot water heater at their convenience, but a dishwasher installation is beneath them. Seriously, I think my daughter should drop out of college and get a plumbing or electrical certification.
EFG Jr
I regret that I no longer have Consumerist available to cover stories like this on. Suffice it to say you are very much not alone and we used to get quite a lot of reader email in this vein.
Mostly however I wanted to pop by to tell you all that the cards have started coming in, and my mother and I very much appreciate every single one. I’ll email along memorial arrangements to have shared once we actually get everything booked; right now it’s very much a hurry up and wait.
TaMara (HFG)
@Paul T: My plumber gets $350 an hour, so yeah, he only gets the big jobs.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Betty Cracker: I told the story of my friend the pediatric psychiatrist/neurologist whose buddy from high school is a plumber. Ernie – who granted is board certified in 3 specialties – says that by the time he pays his student loans, he and the plumber have very comparable incomes. But as Ohio Mom notes, Ernie does have dozens, if not hundreds, of special needs mothers swooning at the mention of his name, and the plumber does not. I knew she’d know who it was from the name/specialty combination.
Betty Cracker
@EFG Jr: Thanks for keeping us informed. We’re all missing your dad and thinking of your family.
evodevo
LOLOLOL – Let me tell you about the washing machine we bought on sale at Lowe’s and that has been sitting in our plant room for TWO YEARS waiting for ME to install it …. it’s a LONG sad tale, believe me….I can readily sympathize with you….Oh, and there was our hunt for a new refrigerator three or four years ago lol
J R in WV
@Inspectrix:
If you are on city water as opposed to a well, I highly recommend a Toto brand. Get the controlled seat which won’t slam down. Do NOT get the cheapest model of whatever brand you do buy. Pay several hundred dollars or be prepared to put up with clogs and failure of components.
We have a well, and I have to clean bits in the tank of our Toto which get clogged with sediment from the well, like quarterly, depending upon activities regarding well maintenance. But the flush is totally successful, always!
Also, get the long oval, not the rounder style, unless no male will ever use the facility.
brantl
@dmsilev: I’ve done 2 myself, not a problem. Use dish soap around the joints, and watch for several minutes. No problem
Tehanu
We are renters and thus have no control over the fact that the kitchen (built in 1930) has no room for a dishwasher. I don’t mind washing up much as Hubby Dearest is very good about drying and putting away. (I always hated going to somebody’s house and offering to help, and they always said they would wash and give me the “easy” job of drying — but when you don’t know where they keep their stuff, and it’s always totally different from how you keep your own stuff, it’s maddening). The other thing I hate about our kitchen is that the landlord, who’s not a bad guy really, insisted on replacing the beat-up linoleum tiles with … more linoleum, which he said was “authentic.” Linoleum is disgusting and practically impossible to clean. The new tiles are actually dirtier-looking and more scuffable than the remaining originals. (Yeah, yeah, I know, first world problems. YOU come over and scrub my floors.)
SteamPunk5250
@Inspectrix: After a washer drain overflow and messing up my entire house disaster, I decided to upgrade my bathroom with a one piece dual flush model toilet. Checked the prices from all the big box stores, watched YouTube, and bought mine from Costco. It’s got all the necessary features, and is ADA height. Less than $175 and no regrets. I went with a one-piece as they are easier to keep clean, and I just like the look. Since they are really heavy, bring along several of your workout buddies. The box fits in a MINI Countryman with no problems. Go buy another toilet plunger, because you need a pliable one. I thought the one with the red cup that I had been using since I bought the house would be serviceable. There is a small learning curve to a dual flush, low flow toilet. Sometimes flushing twice is necessary, along with a couple of plunges. Easy to handle and occurs rarely. My six year old toilet has yet to be visited by a plumber for any repairs. The installation is not a one person operation, unless you have a really nice sized bathroom. You might want to consider hiring a plumber to install it. The weight makes aligning it a challenge, and the wax rings are delicate, buy two, or go high dollar and get the silicone ring. Good luck! Once you get it installed you won’t regret it!
SteamPunk5250
@Betty Cracker: My favorite topic: Water heaters and how expensive they are to install. Reasonably priced water heater, and $1500 to $2000 installation along with all the extraneous material that must be installed to keep everything up to code. There are “industrial complexes” of many descriptions, but the plumbing/municipal one is horrendous. My last foray into water heaters involved an electric tankless. Since I had lived in the Middle East about 40 years ago, I was familiar with what we called “flash” heaters. Very simple design, ran on gas, and they seem to last forever, since the one I was using was left over from the British occupation. Much research, since the US is finally catching up with the rest of the world, there are lots to be found, both gas and electric, some better than others. There is a lot to know about whole house tankless water heaters: how many appliances and bathrooms will be using hot water at the same time, the ambient winter ground water temperature, and the longest run to the outermost user. There are convenient charts for this, fortunately. If you have teenagers, your mileage may vary. If you can centrally locate the heater, you will have less of a wait time. Its not instant, no matter what you’ve heard. You can have several, if needed, and they can be installed serially. For electric, you will probably need two 50 amp circuits, maybe three. If you have less than a 200 amp breaker box, you may need a bigger one, and a larger service. Keep in mind, once done, and if your heater does go out, its a plug and play replacement. I have a very small house, with a centrally located water heater (big impetus to replace a 40 gallon ticking time bomb). The electrical cost wasn’t hideous, especially since I had it combined with another big project: my car charger installation. As to plumbing, I am lucky enough to have a talented brother, and I’m not too bad at it either. Ask around. You may have a friend who can help, or may have a talented brother, too! Good luck!
SteamPunk5250
@TaMara (HFG): Install a set of Webstone bypass valves (Amazon), get a 5 gallon bucket, a sump pump, two braided washing machine hoses, and two containers of the gallon and a half Costco-sized white vinegar. Much cheaper than having a plumber come out, and you can do it at your convenience and probably more often than you would otherwise. There are YouTube videos to show you how, and it is really easy. If you are installing a new tankless, install it high enough where you can get to the Webstones without bending over. We’re all getting older.
SteamPunk5250
@MelissaM: @SteamPunk5250: I like Best Buy, too. A couple of years ago my OTR microwave died, so I decided to get a KitchenAid OTR micro-convection oven. Took a couple of weeks to get it installed, but well worth it. The tech got it to fit in the nasty little space over the range, that has a wall on the hinged side of the microwave. I had evaluated the microwave for a hinge that didn’t protrude into the tiny little space near the wall when it was opened at 90 degrees. He got the door to open fully, something the last installer wasn’t able to do. He also suggested that I keep the old turntable, as it is handy to have an extra, as I have discovered!
SteamPunk5250
@Ruckus: I got one of those, too. The LG Inverter was supposed to tied us over until the OTR was installed. Still have it. Two microwaves? We use them both and at the same time. And the Inverter feature is amazing!