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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Late Night 2020 Election Open Thread: Well, *This* Is Weirdly Interesting…

Late Night 2020 Election Open Thread: Well, *This* Is Weirdly Interesting…

by Anne Laurie|  April 3, 20191:58 am| 82 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, A Woman's Place Is In The House, I Can No Longer Rationally Discuss The Sanders Campaign, Open Threads

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Several people around Joe Biden think advisers to Bernie Sanders are at least partly behind the recent campaign against him. https://t.co/N4dLHppJ6L

— Axios (@axios) April 2, 2019

I’ve been honest about my opinion that Biden would do everyone a favor announcing he’s not gonna run this time. But if it becomes conventional wisdom that the Sandernistas tried to kneecap the other ‘Top Polling Democrat’ by escalating ‘Uncle Joe is a little too hands-on for our era’ into #BadTouchBiden!!!, well… For once, the Media Village Idiots’ two favorite old white male candidates might actually ding each other up badly enough that the more-than-qualified women in the race might actually get some space in the spotlight!

Hiring David Sirota after months of secretly ‘encouraging’ him to ‘impartially’ attack other Democratic candidates has already drawn some serious side-eye from formerly Bernie-romantic political journalists. If they’ve managed to convince the professional political operatives that they’re not to be trusted, the Sanders campaign is about to discover what bare-knuckles politics actually looks like.

The DSA has been a proudly ‘not for the ignorant hoi polloi’ party since at least the HUAC days, which means they’ve had much more experience at niche-market tactics like purity-testing, ratfvcking, and suppressing the enthusiasm of this week’s Emmanuel Goldstein voters than they have with boring unmanly gruntwork like coalition-building or wooing non-voters. The (incidental) GOP / Russian support they received during the 2016 campaign may have caused them to overestimate their broad skills in the general market… or so I hope!

Note how the Sanders campaign not-so-subtly raises the Biden story to the level of Trump's assaults and Christine Blasey Ford. That's a political escalation, folks – with purpose. https://t.co/vZ4HoYzY4A

— Tom Watson (@tomwatson) April 2, 2019

And BTW, I believe Flores. We've all seen Biden in public for years. It's not appropriate. But the campaigns are off and running now.

— Tom Watson (@tomwatson) April 2, 2019

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Previous Post: « Tuesday Evening Election Results
Next Post: Cold Grey Pre-Dawn Open Thread: He’s Decompensating, and None of His GOP Fellows Cares »

Reader Interactions

82Comments

  1. 1.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 2:16 am

    The Wilmerites willingness to play Zero sum politics and weaponize lies in 2016 left a taint on them that won’t wash off.

    Unlike Tom, I don’t believe her.

    I also don’t believe Joe.

    And people who are weaponizing #MeToo are below pond scum.

  2. 2.

    Mary G

    April 3, 2019 at 2:22 am

    Let them fight each other while Kamala and Elizabeth keep connecting with voters under the radar. You know the Biden gaffe machine will go off at some point and he will attack Bernie for not playing well with others.

    I like Liz’s proposal today to make corporate executives criminally liable for the actions of their minions instead of claiming to have had no idea that there is gambling going on in their establishments and retiring with millions in bonuses.

    It is odd how many white male fans Bernie has. They seem like a younger, better dressed bunch of MAGATs, not racist but worshipful uncritical fan bois in the same way. If Biden does finally pull the trigger, it’ll be interesting what his crowds look like. Older, blue collar? The firefighters loved him.

  3. 3.

    sukabi

    April 3, 2019 at 2:30 am

    @Jay: because I’ve seen Biden for years publicly come up behind women and grab shoulders and stick his face in women’s hair and kiss their heads I do believe her, it’s Joe’s go to overly friendly move.

    Joe’s actually lucky that Bernie’s bros are “denying” in the way they are, this is nothing compared to what drumpf and co will drag him through if he jumps in and makes it through the primary.

  4. 4.

    Sab

    April 3, 2019 at 2:34 am

    I don’t have an opinion on who I believe in regards to Flores v Biden, but men really shouldn’t be coming up behind and touching women they don’t know very well. On the receiving end it ranges from irritating to quite frightening. The guy may mean well, but it is almost certainly unpleasant for the probably smaller woman on the receiving end. So just don’t do it.

  5. 5.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 2:47 am

    @sukabi:

    Joe is handsy, and he shouldn’t be. You wait until a hug or touch is offered, a technique called mirroring.

    But the claimed event happened in 2014, there are no witnesses in a place that should have had lots of witnesses, #MeToo has been around for a while, and Flores “sat on it” until after Biden polled #1.

    If it happened or not, it’s being cynically weaponized by a BernieGal.

    That adds to the taint pile.

    Biden’s not what the US needs right now, but the BernieBro’s pulled the trigger way too soon. In the Wilmer vs. Biden rounds I’m rooting for injuries and a clearing of the field for better cantidates.

  6. 6.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 2:55 am

    @Sab:

    Through out the years I have taught lots of girls and women the proper response to someone coming up behind them and touching them.

    When they would be hesitant because they might know the person, I would point out that they could always apologise afterwards, and the other person would have learned a lesson.

  7. 7.

    Chetan Murthy

    April 3, 2019 at 2:58 am

    @Jay:

    Joe is handsy, and he shouldn’t be.

    i keep waiting for the numerous photos of him all handsy with male pols and men in general. They seem to never emerge. Gosh I wonder why, if he offers handshakes, hugs, etc, to all sorts of folks.

  8. 8.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 2:58 am

    @Mary G:

    Double yup.

  9. 9.

    Mary G

    April 3, 2019 at 3:00 am

    One of the GOP PACS has already come out with a slick video of frightened children watching TV shots of Joe’s shoulder rubbing/kissing hair with the recipients, mostly teenaged girls, flinching or pulling away a bit.

    Joe might actually benefit by having this come out so early. It’s a long way to any voting and there will daily crap from Twitler doing much worse things.

  10. 10.

    Elizabelle

    April 3, 2019 at 3:00 am

    I have thought it was the Sandernistas. It is exactly their style.

    Agree that Joe should forego a run. Maybe there’s some serious ambassador posting or an admin post (Cabinet-Sane and legitimate President) awaiting him. For coming out of a brief retirement.

  11. 11.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:01 am

    @Chetan Murthy:

    There’s lots of photo’s with kids, teens, adults of both genders,

    But you will have to search for them your self because they don’t reinforce the MSM meme.

  12. 12.

    Sab

    April 3, 2019 at 3:02 am

    @Jay: What is the proper response for the wouman. When I was younger I cringed and put up with it. My current response is to sort of shriek, and apologize later if I have to.

  13. 13.

    sukabi

    April 3, 2019 at 3:02 am

    @Jay: better candidates needed and running, which is why I’m not upset about the grampa slapfest at all.

    Fyi, not very many women report actual sexual attacks, the fact that she didn’t say anything about Biden being weirdly over friendly isn’t surprising.

    Would you question her honesty if she was never associated with the 2016 Sanders campaign? If she was ‘just a random unknown woman” that recounted an identical experience with the same timing?

  14. 14.

    SRW1

    April 3, 2019 at 3:07 am

    Where are the god damn tax returns, Bernie?

  15. 15.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:10 am

    @Sab:

    Crush the instep, elbow strike to the midsection, turn and flat palm punch the nose,

    If you recognize them after turning, you stop preferably before the nose strike,

    If you don’t recognize them you follow up with a knee to the groin, a mule kick to the knee, screaming as a breathing technique the whole time, followed by running to a “safe spot”.

    The routine get’s practiced to the point that it’s pure instinct and reaction.

    If I’m coming up behind my wife in public, I greet her before touching her.

  16. 16.

    Mandalay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:11 am

    The allegations that Sanders was behind the woman coming forward have emerged from anonymous sources in the Biden camp, just as the lie that Abrams was considering being Biden’s VP emerged from anonymous sources in the Biden camp.

    Moreover, there is video evidence galore that Biden is a creepy groper, and a second woman has since come forward directly accusing him. And Sanders was the only Democratic candidate who defended Biden when the allegation surfaced. It’s very convenient for Biden to make the story all about Sanders instead of his own sick behavior.

    After Sanders refused to show us his taxes in the last campaign he became dead to me, but a least he’s not a kiddy fiddler. Fuck Biden, and fuck his lying enablers.

  17. 17.

    Sab

    April 3, 2019 at 3:14 am

    I very much don’t want this to become a partisan ( within alleged Dems) issue. You don’t touch (paw) women without their permission. My male cats know this because the girls have claws, but we shouldn’t even have to be debating this amongst humans.

    I am not intending this as an anti Biden comment. We just need a better standard for male behavior. A disqualifying standard. I don’t care what they did when you were young, this isn’t okay now (and I’m 65 so my standards of aceptable male behavior are extremely low.)

  18. 18.

    sukabi

    April 3, 2019 at 3:16 am

    @Sab: yep to everything you said.

  19. 19.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:20 am

    @sukabi:

    I know the femal sexual assault stats,

    The time to “out” Biden, was after Franken and before Bidden started going public with his possible campaign, ( or immediately at the start of his musings),

    And yes, if she wern’t a BernieGal, I’d believe her. But the Burner’s have shown they are willing to try to win at all costs, even if that means burning down #MeToo.

  20. 20.

    Anne Laurie

    April 3, 2019 at 3:22 am

    @Sab:

    I am not intending this as an anti Biden comment. We just need a better standard for male behavior.

    Yeah, that’s been my issue with Biden. He means well, I like the guy as a person (insofar as one can like somebody I’ve never met), but he is not the best choice for us Democrats in 2020. An elder statesman, yes; somebody who can share his experience & contacts with younger candidates; maybe even a VP, if it comes to that… but if he gets back in the arena, it’ll be a sorry day for everybody concerned.

    Not least since, I still think, he’s not actually interested in running as much as he’s stuck in an Irish-Jansenist misconception that he “ought” to run!

  21. 21.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:24 am

    @Sab:

    60 years ago, my Mom and Dad taught me “mirroring”, they offer a handshake, you take it, they offer a hug, you take it, they offer the cheek kisses, you take it and reciprocate,

  22. 22.

    mrmoshpotato

    April 3, 2019 at 3:26 am

    @Mary G: @Jay: I’ll add a third yup to that.

    Hopefully they knock each other out of the race. Preferably before Memorial Day – of this year.

  23. 23.

    Mandalay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:26 am

    @sukabi:

    Fyi, not very many women report actual sexual attacks, the fact that she didn’t say anything about Biden being weirdly over friendly isn’t surprising.

    Right. And she was very clear that she was not alleging a sexual assault by Biden. The notion that it-happened-a-long-time-ago-and-she- didn’t-report-it-so-she’s-lying is really offensive. AFAIK nobody here was accusing Christine Blasey Ford of lying when she didn’t report Kavanaugh’s assault when she was a teenager.

    Would you question her honesty if she was never associated with the 2016 Sanders campaign?

    Exactly: “I always believe the woman….except when it conflicts with my agenda!”

  24. 24.

    cs

    April 3, 2019 at 3:28 am

    I don’t understand the attack on the DSA here. As far as I can tell, they’re doing things the right way. They’re not running pointless third party candidates who act only as spoilers, but rather running people as Democrats within primaries. This puts them in contact with regular voters and forces them to engage and craft a message appealing to such. They’re willing to challenge low level races in order to build their movement from the ground up.

    This has been rather successful for them. AOC being their biggest win, but they’ve managed to get some local seats here and there as well. They also do other forms of community outreach. And their challenges to ICE had some success.

    As far as I know, they have no GOP or Russian support. That sounds much more like the Greens, who did enjoy both.

  25. 25.

    Sab

    April 3, 2019 at 3:28 am

    @Jay: Doesn’t work if you are a small woman. I have plumped up a lot, but I spent most of my life at 5’5″ and 110 lbs. I was pretty fit, but I couldn’t challenge any adult male to anything. I know because I was married to a large unfit couch potato. He could clobber me in any confrontation, and did.

  26. 26.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:29 am

    @Mandalay:

    She’s a Wilmerite, the timing is off, and the ReThugs have already weaponized it against Joe, and will use it to attack any Democratic Party Cantidate that does’nt support Frankening Uncle Joe.

    It’s right out of the Wilmerite 2016 Playbook, but with #MeToo rather than #Pledged Delegates.

  27. 27.

    Mnemosyne

    April 3, 2019 at 3:30 am

    @Sab:

    A sharp elbow to the solar plexus usually discourages “friendly” guys who are fooling themselves about their motives.

    I am not a fan of Biden running, so I have no hesitation in saying that he may feel that his motives are pure with this behavior, but it’s still unacceptable. He needs to keep his goddamned hands to himself unless invited.

    I don’t find her story particularly implausible since we already know that he’s handsy. Again, his motive doesn’t really matter. He needs to knock it off.

  28. 28.

    Joey Maloney

    April 3, 2019 at 3:31 am

    Because of my timezone I scan over the previous day’s threads after most everyone is asleep and the threads are dead, but I just wanted to extend my condolences to Aleta on the loss of her beloved kitty.

  29. 29.

    Mandalay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:38 am

    @Jay: You are obviously hellbent on believing the anonymous sources in the Biden camp, even after they blatantly lied about Abrams running as VP just last week. Even after another woman has come forward accusing Biden. Even after Sanders was the only candidate to defend Biden. Even after the slew of videos showing Biden groping.

    After all that, Sanders is the one at fault? JFC.

  30. 30.

    Mnemosyne

    April 3, 2019 at 3:38 am

    @Mary G:

    Many of Wilmer’s white male fans transferred their affections from Ron Paul, and they brought their “burn it all down if I can’t have my way” attitude with them.

    They’re not necessarily active white supremacists, but I think it’s fair to say that they have a LOT of unexamined attitudes about race, sex, and gender that they have no interest in ever examining.

  31. 31.

    Ealbert

    April 3, 2019 at 3:39 am

    I am tired of the comment that this was a long time ago and it never bothered anyone. I had a job i the early 80’s with an executive who was “handsy” (he would come up behind women and grab them by the neck – sound familar?). A woman did win a decision against him for sexual harassment but the story was that she wasn’t able to find a job after that. Biden has gotten away with this for so long because he does it with women (and girls) that he isn’t interacting with every day, and after all, it isn’t that bad, it’s not like he’s raping them so what’s the big deal. (And yes that last is sarcastic.)

  32. 32.

    sukabi

    April 3, 2019 at 3:41 am

    @Jay: Biden was retired from pretty much everything when Franken was pushed out, what would have been the point?

    Biden’s handsyness became an issue because he’s thinking about re-entering public service, he’s being “vetted” and yes past behavior is relevant.

  33. 33.

    Mnemosyne

    April 3, 2019 at 3:45 am

    @Mandalay:

    Both things can be true: Biden is a serial groper and Bernie’s flying monkeys are amplifying the story for maximum damage to a perceived rival.

    I can believe that the woman is telling the truth while also thinking that she’s coming forward at this specific moment to benefit her side politically.

  34. 34.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:46 am

    @Sab:

    My sister, 5’0 and 120lbs pulled it off sucessfully, several times.

    The smallest student we ever had attacked was a 4’1, 14 year old girl who’s assailant was a 240lb, 6’4 multiple sex offender.

    It’s not a tussle, it’s not a wrestling match, it’s a strike combo that takes 8 seconds to complete, leaves the assailant unable to run, and half blind for 15 minutes or longer, and in extreme pain.

    It was part of a 9 month course, 1 night a week, for two hours, with a requirement to practice for 1 hour a night until the next class, when they got to demonstrate their mastery on my friend Steve.

    The course was taught along side of the 1st Female RCMP hand to hand combat instructor and covered multiple situations from “Stranger Danger” to cuddling on the couch passing the no means no point.

    It’s not about beating a male opponent in the octagon, it’s about clearing enough space to get away.

  35. 35.

    Sab

    April 3, 2019 at 3:47 am

    @Ealbert: Yep. I don’t care what the standatds were then. We need better standards now, and if they don’t meet them then sad farewells.

  36. 36.

    Mandalay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:48 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    he may feel that his motives are pure with this behavior, but it’s still unacceptable

    Biden has certainly made it clear that he considered his motives were pure, but AFAIK he has still not shown any recognition that his behavior was unacceptable.

    Until he finds the courage to do that he deserves pariah status, and the longer he delays that the more he will hurt his candidacy.

  37. 37.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:53 am

    @Mandalay:

    Like I said,

    I don’t believe her,

    I din’t believe Joe,

    And the ReThugs are already weaponizing against Joe and will use it to go after every Democratic Party Cantidate, sitting Representative and Senator who does not condem him and kick him out of the Party.

  38. 38.

    Sab

    April 3, 2019 at 3:55 am

    @Jay: Whoopee for her but that shouldnt be my life standard. I was traumatized by a former spouse and sexually harrassed by a partner in the firm I was working in while my marriage collapsed.

    I shouldn’t have been had kneeing partners in the crotch to intimidate them to keep me hired while I found a less unpleasant job?

    Are you nuts across the Northern border?

  39. 39.

    Mandalay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:56 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    she’s coming forward at this specific moment to benefit her side politically

    Well I’d read that she was no longer supporting Sanders. And maybe she is coming forward now because Biden is doing so well in the polls.

    Nobody here was calling Christine Blasey Ford a liar when she came forward after many years because she realized that Kavanaugh was likely to have an armchair ride to SCOTUS. Perhaps Flores feels the same way about the prospect of Biden becoming president.

  40. 40.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    April 3, 2019 at 3:57 am

    If Biden doesn’t run, where does his 29% of primary voters go?

  41. 41.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:57 am

    @sukabi:

    Biden’s been talking about a Presidential Campaign for months, the time was months ago but instead, just after multiple polls that had Biden in the “lead” and after the Anita Hill Non-Apology.

    The way some of the ratfucking techniques work, is when one packed of dirt get’s worn out and exhausted, you release another, new packet of dirt.

  42. 42.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 3:59 am

    @Mandalay:

    Yup. And every D who doesn’t disavow him.

  43. 43.

    Mnemosyne

    April 3, 2019 at 4:02 am

    @Mandalay:

    Like I said, I find her story perfectly plausible given the evidence. Anyone who is surprised that Sanders’ flying monkeys on Twitter would seize on this story and use it to beat Joe about the head and neck hasn’t been paying attention to current events.

  44. 44.

    sukabi

    April 3, 2019 at 4:07 am

    @Jay: still part of the “vetting” process… His handsyness is the least of his problems. His floor speeches aren’t going to do him any favors. https://twitter.com/PollyTickal/status/1112980999430791168?s=20

  45. 45.

    Chetan Murthy

    April 3, 2019 at 4:08 am

    @Jay:

    adults of both genders

    I look forward to the shots of him with both hands on some guy’s shoulders from behind, and whispering in the guy’s ear. Or a guy sitting in Old Handsy Joe’s lap.

  46. 46.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:08 am

    @Sab:

    Pretty much every YWCA, YMCA and dojo in the US teaches similar Womens Self Defence classes. In the US there are a bunch of Womens Self Defence classes that teach women how to pull from cover, put two bullets into center mass, and follow up, we don’t have those here.

    Women shouldn’t have to self defend from assholes, but that’s not the world we live in. There’s a lot of things, women shouldn’t have to do.

  47. 47.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:13 am

    @Mandalay:

    Nope, she’s still all in on Wilmer.

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Like I said, you are going to have to look for them, because they don’t fit the narrative. I havn’t seen any photo’s of full grown men sitting in Joe’s lap, but I have seen photo’s of Joe hugging men, and hands on shoulders, ear whispers.

  48. 48.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:15 am

    @Chetan Murthy:

    His floor speeches arn’t going to be turned into a ReThug/Wilmerite purity test for every sitting Democrat and Cantidate,

    #MeToo is already being weaponized.

    Meant for subaki

  49. 49.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:24 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    To Wilmer.

  50. 50.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:25 am

    Calling it for the night,

    Play nice.

  51. 51.

    Amir Khalid

    April 3, 2019 at 4:28 am

    Joe Biden was a weak candidate in 1988 and in 2008. I for one was not really expecting anything different if he ran in 2020. These plausible accusations of handsiness against him are one more weakness in a candidate with just one selling point: his years as Obama’s VP. He was good at that, but then he had Obama there to steer him. This time he doesn’t, and I am far from convinced he makes a good enough case for himself in a field with as many strong candidates as this one.

    I might be willing to overlook the handsiness if he had ‘fessed up to it, made an unreserved apology (i.e. no “if anyone was offended” nonsense) and vowed to behave in future. But he has not done that.

  52. 52.

    Sab

    April 3, 2019 at 4:33 am

    @Jay: They all have the classes. They don’t actually work. That’s bad enough. But they convince already traumatized women that they do work. They can’t. You can’t . You can’t train a normal size woman to take on a normal size man. They are just too big. It’s not politics. It’s physics.

    And you are doing a huge “dis-service” to women to convince them that these classes protect them.

  53. 53.

    OzarkHillbilly

    April 3, 2019 at 4:39 am

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: @Jay:

    To Wilmer.

    I suspect most Biden voters are life long democrats, in which case most of them go to anyone but wilmer.

  54. 54.

    sukabi

    April 3, 2019 at 4:41 am

    @Jay: if by chance he actually declares he’s running, (I don’t think he will, he needs to fish or cut bait) ALL his past remarks, gaffes, policy votes and the Anita Hill / Thomas hearing will be relitigated and it will be UGLY. Joe’s best option is to return to his retirement with his reputation relatively unscathed.

  55. 55.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:47 am

    @Sab:

    Yeah, nope.

    I’m an average sized man. I’ve won life or death fights against much much bigger men, some with weapons. I’ve also avoided life or death fights from situational awareness and evasion techniques. 10 years after I stopped going to the dogo, or teaching, I took a filleting knife away from a 230lb meth head and restrained him until the EMT’s arrived, with out hurting him, or me.

    Women’s self defence classes won’t provide 100% insurance, but they are better than pretending the world should be fair.

    And sadly, they arn’t much use to people who pick abusive partners, because that’s not just a self defense issue, that goes a lot deeper.

  56. 56.

    dogwood

    April 3, 2019 at 4:49 am

    It’s interesting that people who thought Al Frankin’s ouster was bullshit, and who now despise Gillibrand are so outraged by Biden. It was obvious from the get go that #MeToo was gonna be weaponized for political purposes.

  57. 57.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:49 am

    @sukabi:

    Yup, he should take up knitting,

    But if he stays, the Flores #MeToo is going to be hung around the necks of every Democratic Party Rep, Senator and Cantidate.

  58. 58.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:53 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Right now, Wilmer’s #2 in name recognition,

    Which we seem to mostly agree, is the current metric of poll rankings.

    It won’t last, but some of it might stick.

  59. 59.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:56 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Yup, admit, apologize, amends,

    It’s not rocket science.

  60. 60.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 4:58 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Oh, and blech to you too,

  61. 61.

    Argiope

    April 3, 2019 at 4:59 am

    @Jay: I can attest that versions of this technique are taught down here in the US, too: my daughter had it drilled regularly since her yellow belt. It is taught for stranger-acquaintance situations, and isn’t at all effective for situations where one’s livelihood or shelter depends on *not* using it. I’m a big fan of girls learning early how to put distance between themselves and would-be assailants, in no small part because I think it may help reinforce the idea that they have a right to their own personal space and bodily autonomy. A critical mass of that message may change the world. But I am still enraged that it’s needed because of the messages the patriarchy gives many boys.

  62. 62.

    sukabi

    April 3, 2019 at 5:07 am

    @Jay: by who? The gop who would have to hunt high and low to find one of their members that doesn’t have a direct #MeToo problem of their own?

    I don’t doubt they’ll go there, it’s what they do. And they’ll do it Biden or not.

    And is there a reason you spell candidate cantidate? Is there a joke associated with that?

  63. 63.

    Argiope

    April 3, 2019 at 5:09 am

    @Jay: I’ll bet you didn’t mean to sound like you were blaming victims here, but that last sentence was cringeworthy.

  64. 64.

    J R in WV

    April 3, 2019 at 5:10 am

    Joe Biden is toxic for Democratic voters because of the way he treated Dr Anita Hill in order to “give” us Clarance Thomas on the Supreme Court. A) the treatment of Dr Hill was despicable and B) the result was the worst SC Justice in our lifetimes.

    And then he said “I’m so sorry we weren’t able to give Anita Hill the hearing she deserved!” when he was Chairman in charge of running the hearing!!! Cheap non-apology!!! Toxic!

    Joe Biden is toxic for woman voters because of the handsiness kissy-poo misbehavior. I’m nearly 70 and know better than that. Hnadshakes at most, unless they then approach for a very space-given one-armed hug around the shoulders. And his apologies suck too!

    I’m a hugger with close friends, my family were all huggers, when my cousin flew out of Tucson while I remained last winter, we had a great long hug there where passengers are dropped. Two old guys, one fat (me) and one skinny, long haired hippys.

    We’re going to visit long time friends tomorrow, later today now. There will be puppies to play with, we’ve got first dibs on a puppy out of a friendly smart mutt mother and a Great Pirenees herd guard dog bigger than my wife is. Baby goats, too, which are a cute as the puppies. There will be hugs, both manly-man hugs and womanly hugs, because all of us are hippys and huggers.

    A woman I don’t know sometimes there will be a hug, depending on how the introduction goes.

    But at a political rally, or a meeting, or that? No FuQEN Way, Joe!!!

    If he’s the nominated candidate, I’ll vote for him and work for the whole campaign in the large picture, but I won’t be trying to sell Biden — I wouldn’t come across good for him, I can’t sell something I don’t believe in. I can believe in taking the Senate!

  65. 65.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 5:12 am

    @Argiope:

    Yup, double yup.

    Up here, we’ve gotten a lot better at the whole livelihood and shelter situation.

    As bad as my parents were, they raise real men and one kickass daughter, ( now also a man).

    My friend Steve, 7th Dan, ( now in his late 60’s), when he visits my nieces and nephews, still brings over his protection gear, so the kids can practice on him from time to time.

  66. 66.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 5:20 am

    @sukabi:

    GOP, 503’s, 501’s, Berners, MSM, Faux, Sinclair, Shitlords, 4chan, 8chan, Twitteratii, Edgelords, Nazis, Russians, Israelis, Sawdi’s, China, Brooks, etc, the list is endless,

  67. 67.

    Argiope

    April 3, 2019 at 5:24 am

    @Jay: That protective gear is important. We’ve had one or two memorable incidents when my girl was practicing with her unprotected, much larger dad. Poor guy knew exactly what had hit him, and she was not trying to hurt, only to work through a sequence of moves.

  68. 68.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 5:29 am

    @Argiope:

    It’s not a “blaming the victim of domestic abuse” comment.

    A self defence class won’t solve domestic abuse, the best it will do is create enough space to get out and away.

    There is a huge array of varying factors around domestic abuse, and they are not all centered in on the abuser.

    I grew up in a home filled with domestic abuse, my Mom, us kids, and yet, despite police calls, beatings, shelters, alcoholism, drugs,

  69. 69.

    sukabi

    April 3, 2019 at 5:31 am

    @Jay: doesn’t matter if Biden’s in or not, they’re going to do it anyway. They’ll have much more material and a larger, more vulnerable target if he runs.

  70. 70.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 5:33 am

    @Argiope:

    We always tease Steve that the only reason he got his belts, is because, on his own, he bought the gear, then spent 20 years in the dojo, letting women kick him in the,…….

    Steve’s karate,
    My brother’s juditsu,
    I’m Akiddo and Capoyara

  71. 71.

    Anne Laurie

    April 3, 2019 at 5:34 am

    @Sab:

    And you are doing a huge “dis-service” to women to convince them that these classes protect them.

    Not that I totally disagree with you, BUT: One way these classes are helpful? Abusers look for vulnerable women — the ones who look too nervous / scared / polite to speak up when they’re grabbed. A woman who believes she has an alternative, even a less-than-perfect one, to meekly getting groped deters the creeps looking for an easy target.

    It sure ain’t guaranteed, but there are women who can honestly say those self-defense classes saved them because it gave them the confidence not to look like a victim.

  72. 72.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 5:44 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    Good self defense classes start out with situational awareness. Where to park, where to walk, watch your drink, when to notice,

    Then, escape and evasion.

    After that, it get’s physical.

    If all that mattered was physics and mass, I would have died at 14, and over 50 times since.

    Instead, here I am, late 60’s with the love of my life and two snuggle cats on my lap.

  73. 73.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 5:48 am

    @sukabi:

    If Biden takes up knitting, then Nancy Smash’s comment about “pretend we both have colds”, is enough, and can be mirrored.

    If Biden runs, then there will be demands for every D to condemn and expell.

  74. 74.

    Gvg

    April 3, 2019 at 5:53 am

    @Chetan Murthy: Actually, the overly friendly pics of Joe with male politicians came out yesterday, or possibly earlier and I just saw it yesterday. I didn’t save a link. I was busy and only looked here and Little Green Footballs though.
    I wonder if it will get much play though. Not as interesting a story possibly. Honestly, I think being overly friendly to men can also be uncomfortable and shouldn’t be done too. Biden should have pulled back years ago.

  75. 75.

    Jay

    April 3, 2019 at 6:07 am

    @Gvg:

    Biden’s overt touchyness has already been weaponized,

    That’s why I always ask people if I can pet their dogs,

    Dog stalking can get you banned from dog parks.

  76. 76.

    Another Scott

    April 3, 2019 at 6:53 am

    I’m a 50-something male. I learned a long time ago that I need personal space. In middle school I was friends with a very tall girl and I would get almost panicky if she was ‘too close’.

    I can only imagine what it’s like for women in the USA.

    Biden should have learned about ‘personal space’ and the importance of respecting it. Why didn’t he? What else didn’t he learn?

    Yeah, if he runs, all of this stuff is going to hound him. Politics ain’t beanbag.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  77. 77.

    guachi

    April 3, 2019 at 8:13 am

    @Chetan Murthy: They exist. I saw some just yesterday. You just are willfully not looking for them.

  78. 78.

    Bobby Thomson

    April 3, 2019 at 8:21 am

    People who don’t want to be compared to Brett Kavanaugh’s defenders should stop acting like Brett Kavanaugh’s defenders.

    A candidate with good political instincts would have at least neutralized this by now. A great one would have used it as a learning experience and earned goodwill.

    And then there’s Biden.

  79. 79.

    evodevo

    April 3, 2019 at 8:23 am

    “Invading your space” is a cultural thing…in our culture it is taken as an aggressive move. In a lot of Latin America it’s normal to get closer in casual conversation than is tolerated up here. Just sayin’

  80. 80.

    gvg

    April 3, 2019 at 8:42 am

    @evodevo: Biden is one of us, so he has to follow our best cultural norms. Latin America’s culture is not relevant to this discussion. You are missing the point.

  81. 81.

    Mnemosyne

    April 3, 2019 at 10:31 am

    A certain former head honcho at a certain Giant Evil Corporation thought it was a defense to say that he grabbed and hugged men, too. It didn’t save his ass, either.

    Just sayin’.

  82. 82.

    Adam Geffen

    April 3, 2019 at 11:40 am

    @Jay:

    “I would have died at 14, and over 50 times since.”

    I gotta ask, because you seem to live in a very different world than I do, what region of the world do you live in that is so dangerous?

    I live in Detroit. (Not the suburbs.) One of the top 5 “most dangerous” cities in the US. I’ve never been threatened or felt unsafe. Now some of that is luck, no doubt. But you say you’ve been in over 50 violent encounters. Do you live in an active war zone?

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