Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

The willow is too close to the house.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

“Alexa, change the president.”

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Shut up, hissy kitty!

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Second rate reporter says what?

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Saturday Morning Open Thread: “Women’s Issues”

Saturday Morning Open Thread: “Women’s Issues”

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Blessings to all the candidates who recognize those aren’t just ‘identity politics’…

And not just the 2020 candidates:

Also, Goddess bless Speaker Pelosi, may she rule the House for as long as she cares to:


(I hope — I believe — Khan’s parents will be pleased.)

Reader Interactions

171Comments

  1. 1.

    Betty Cracker

    I like Harris’s proposal for raising teacher salaries. The way we treat public school teachers in this country has been a scandal for decades.

    We had a neighbor who was an elementary school music teacher. He loved the job and was great at it. The kids adored him. But the school system kept cutting programs, which made his low-paying job harder every year. He decided to go back to school and get a PhD so he could teach at the university level. It was purely a financial decision. He would have been happy to remain a teacher at a public elementary school.

  2. 2.

    Mary G

    My goodness, that all gave me chills. The sight of Sharice Davis in that chair so long occupied by pasty white men.

    Those are the people I want running the country.

  3. 3.

    JPL

    @Betty Cracker: Yup. Unfortunately, if the Federal government gave teachers an additional many local governments would cut their salary by the same amount.

  4. 4.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Another spectator Women’s Final Four last nite

    Matt
    ‏ @nosoupforgeorge

    It’s hard to imagine the Men’s FinalFour being more exciting than the Women’s FinalFour games tonight.

    Oregon vs Baylor: 12 lead changes, 72-67 final score.

    UConn vs Notre Dame: 26 lead changes, 81-76 final score.

    Just spectacular basketball tonight! #NCAAW #WFinalFour

    Lizzy
    ‏ @pdxlizzy1

    My heart can’t handle this #WFinalFour

    USA TODAY
    ‏Verified account @USATODAY

    In a wild game featuring nine ties and 26 lead changes, defending national champs Notre Dame wiped out a late nine-point deficit to hand archrival Connecticut an 81-76 defeat in Friday’s Final Four semifinal.

  5. 5.

    MomSense

    @Betty Cracker:

    Same thing happened to me. Every year they cut your budget until you are pushing a cart and have a budget of 0 per child and have to try to teach class in the corner of the cafeteria, gym, or a hallway.

  6. 6.

    NotMax

    @JPL

    Too blatant, they’ll slash school budgets across the board since teachers will better be able to afford buying supplies for their classrooms.

  8. 8.

    Betty Cracker

    If you have a New Yorker subscription or free views left in your monthly allotment, the three-part series on what’s driving immigration to the US from Guatemala is well worth your time, IMO. It starts here. Poverty and climate change-induced crop failures are key drivers. Also Trump, who wasn’t dealing with an immigration crisis when he took office but is now, thanks to his big mouth and stupid, counterproductive policies, such as ending funding for a program that helped farmers adapt to climate change with advice on planting different crops and warnings/advice on how to deal with new weather patterns.

  12. 12.

    Nelle

    I’m not Aunt Bee. I live the two grandchildren but have no need (nor the stamina) to be an over-involved grandma. Yet I see the pressures on my son and DIL. Two full-time Hobart, two part-time jobs, two children under two? There’s no margin. Actually, my husband is leading the way. He retired last Friday (he’s a very healthy 75) and on Sunday, we’ll take up residence in Iowa to be their support system, taking the girls two days a week. I can’t describe the look of gratitude on their faces when we told them. They can deal on their own. But now they don’t have to. Human issues, not women’s issues. (Because of health issues, I’ve had some physical restrictions on what I can do..can’t carry or lift the babies. Grandpa does it all. He’s been dealing with Superfund sites. Now, a more micro kind if hazardous waste). Side benefit? I get to vote against Joni Ernst. Any Jackels in Des Moines?

  13. 13.

    OzarkHillbilly

    A court official accompanied by four police officers had to break into the home of Stephen Moore, Donald Trump’s pick for the Federal Reserve board, after he repeatedly failed to pay debts to his ex-wife.

    The group used a locksmith to force their way into Moore’s house in Virginia in May 2013, according to court filings. They were there to prepare the property for a court-ordered sale in order to raise $330,000 that Moore owed his ex-wife after their divorce.

    When the court official telephoned Moore on her way out to ask where she should leave the new key to his home, Moore “was very argumentative” and “denied that we were in his house”, the official, Kyle Skopic, said in a June 2013 motion.

    The court records were reopened to the public by a judge on Friday, in response to legal action by the Guardian and other media. They had been temporarily sealed this week following the publication of reports about Moore’s past financial and legal problems.
    ………………………………………………..
    The court file that was reopened on Friday detailed how Moore ignored contacts from Skopic after Fairfax County circuit court appointed her as a special commissioner to handle the forced sale of his house. Moore had by then been found in contempt of court for failing to pay the debt, which included alimony, child support and money owed from the couple’s divorce settlement.

    Skopic wrote to Moore and received no response, she said. Then, when she reached him by telephone, he “curtly advised that the house was not for sale and hung up”. Four days after the call, she arrived at the house in Falls Church with the police officers, who “cleared the property to make sure there were no dangers”.

    The court records state that Moore, then an economics writer for the Wall Street Journal, was earning at least $420,000 per year at the time of his divorce in May 2011.

    Just a peach of a guy.

  15. 15.

    waratah

    Hi from Sydney Australia .home for a visit and heading for Grenfell in the morning to see a small museum. My great, great grandfather Cornelius O’Brien was the first to discover gold there and they have his story and some personal items.
    I admire my great great grandmother who married Cornelius when his first wife died leaving him with six children. My great great grandmother Maude married Cornelius and raised those children plus six more they had. Everyone of those children loved her.
    Then we will drive back seeing Mudgee vineyards and winery’s.

  17. 17.

    NotMax

    Closed caption funnies.

    Dialogue: Don’t make me call a gendarme.

    Caption: Don’t make me call John Darm.

  18. 18.

    DC

    The line “This is a man who sincerely cares about people” when used as a contrast to another candidate really rubbed me the wrong way. Many of these candidates are good and clear this basic standard of “caring about people.”

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    A 61-year-old woman who served as a surrogate mother for her son and his husband has described her role as a “gift for her son”. Cecile Eledge thought doctors in her home state of Nebraska would not allow her to carry a baby for the couple because of her age. But the family rejoiced when Uma Louise Dougherty was born in an old-fashioned delivery two weeks ago at a Nebraska medical centre in Omaha.

    “I wanted to do it as a gift from a mother to her son,” Cecile Eledge said.

    Uma’s birth led to the family being inundated with messages on social media – most of them positive but some extremely angry and negative, Matthew Eledge said.
    ………………………………….
    Dougherty’s sister, Lea Yribe, offered to donate her eggs for the IVF. The eggs were fertilised with sperm from Eledge, giving Uma genetic material from both sides of the family. The men told their IVF doctor that Eledge’s mother had offered to be the surrogate – even though she was at that point 59 and had gone through menopause.

    “Matt would comically say, ‘Well my mum keeps offering but we know that’s not an option’,” Cecile Eledge said.

    But after testing to make sure her body could tolerate the pregnancy, doctors went ahead with implanting the embryo. Carl Smith, a specialist in maternal and foetal medicine at the hospital, said Cecile was healthy and fit, and looked years younger than her age.
    …………………..
    The politics of helping a gay couple and the unusual choice of a grandmother for a surrogate did not deter the team, Smith said. “We never gave that a second thought,” Smith said. “She was pregnant and the circumstances of how she got pregnant are between her and her family.”

  21. 21.

    NotMax

    @NotMax

    One reason I keep closed captioning on for Netflix and for Prime is to giggle at AI screw-ups like that. And also to add another exclamation point to the internal memo to self to avoid self-driving cars.

  23. 23.

    p.a.

    Now if the Feds, or someone, anyone, would do something about the funding distribution issue, which is still very much a local/regional issue.
    Glacial movement, but even that is an improvement.

  24. 24.

    Leto

    Morning everyone. Just now learned that Capt Khan died in the town right next to my forward operating base. My world continually grows smaller.

    Slept like ass, back hurts, but it’s supposed to be warmer today so I’m hopeful. Still, blech.

  26. 26.

    plato

    Women are putting up sensible proposals while the men are still fluffing themselves as usual?

    I look forward to a capable woman driving out a inept sexist pos after a corruptest first term.

  27. 27.

    JPL

    @Leto: Sorry about your back. I read the article about the post office being named after him. Trump will once again have to sign the bill.. He’ll do so but under much duress.

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    The insurer AIG has agreed to settle lawsuits filed by seven women who say the disgraced actor and comedianBill Cosby defamed them when he accused them of lying about sexual misconduct allegations.

    Filings on Friday in federal court in Springfield, Massachusetts, show the two sides have negotiated a settlement since Cosby went to prison last fall in a separate Pennsylvania sexual assault case. The 81-year-old comedian is serving a three- to 10-year prison sentence there. The federal judge overseeing the defamation case in Massachusetts must still approve the settlement. The terms are confidential.

    Andrew Wyatt, a spokesperson for Cosby, said on Friday that AIG had chosen to settle the claims without the actor’s “knowledge, permission and/or consent”.

    “Mr. Cosby did not settle any cases with anyone. He is not paying anything to anyone, and he is still pursuing his counterclaims,” a statement tweeted from the actor’s account read.

  30. 30.

    Immanentize

    @Raven: You may be off to get a donut at the new opening time, but you were In 100% correct -. The whistle pigs are on the move. I saw a big fat one in my yard yesterday. I fear he is living under my shed….

  31. 31.

    Barbara

    @JPL: It’s called maintenance of effort. The money is only available if the state maintains current levels for certain benchmarks. It was a condition of Medicaid expansion funding, for instance.

  33. 33.

    Leto

    @JPL: Thanks. Yeah, I don’t believe the Republican member made a mistake. It was their trademark “lack of getting the details correct”. The article stated that Trumpov tried say good things about that Khan family later? I honestly don’t remember that. But it also doesn’t matter. The ugliness he vomited forth stated it all.

    Something way OT. Tom Levenson is usually our art critic but I came across this and thought I should share (via WaPo):

    Dan Robbins, paint-by-number inventor who made ‘every man a Rembrandt,’ dies at 93

    Dan Robbins, who tried to make “every man a Rembrandt” with his invention of paint-by-number kits in the 1950s, a phenomenon that delighted hobbyists and rankled critics by inviting amateurs to dip their toe — and a paintbrush — into the realm of art, died April 1 in Sylvania, Ohio. He was 93.

    The cause was complications from pneumonia, said a son, Larry Robbins.

    …

    Mr. Robbins credited da Vinci with inspiring his creation. “I had heard that da Vinci used to use diagrams and number them when he was instructing his students in painting, and a light bulb went off in my head,” Mr. Robbins told the Chicago Tribune in 1999. “I thought, why not do numbered patterns for paintings that people can finish?”

    …

    Mr. Robbins paid little mind to critics who disparaged his work, although he did concede that it is “really kind of weird that somebody like myself has had thousands and thousands of people painting these pictures I created.”

    “But their attitude is, ‘Look what I’ve created,’ and that’s fine,” he told the Tribune. “The individuals took pride in their own creation. It’s really their painting.”

    Mr Robbins and Bob Ross are two more military guys who just wanted to bring a little more color, and happiness, to the world.

  35. 35.

    Betty Cracker

    @DC: I find the gratuitous swipes at fellow Democrats irritating too, but it looks like we’ll have to get used to it.

  36. 36.

    Immanentize

    @Leto:
    Have you tried the board game: Bob Ross, the Art of Chill? We have it, it’s fun. The Immp also has a Bob Ross mug — when you pour hot liquid in it, a nice painting with happy little trees appears.

  37. 37.

    waratah

    @Betty Cracker: I was amazed when I read about her. Now I can see her strength in her daughters and their daughters. My mother inherited a lot of it and raised her brothers and sisters during the depression, while my grandmother went to cook on the sheep stations for income. My mother was not the eldest but stepped into the role.

  38. 38.

    Leto

    @Immanentize: We have not, but I am intrigued! Also I’m really jealous of the Immp as that sounds like an amazing mug! “And don’t forget to have a happy little tree… get some caffeine, start the day right, happy little tree…” :)

  39. 39.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker:
    I am really missing the gratuitous swipe. All I see is a very positive statement about Julian Castro:

    This is a man who sincerely cares about people.

    A well deserved positive statement. So, help me understand?

  41. 41.

    Gen

    My new rule is of your candidate needs you to crap on other candidates, he’s not strong enough to stand on his own.

    While everyone is slobbering over #MayorPete speaking 7 languages and being a Rhodes Scholar, I find this previous Mayor to be much more impressive.

    Makes me far less likely to support him in the next few months. I probably won’t settle on Buttigieg either but there’s no reason to denegrate him for being intelligent. Leave that to Republicans

  42. 42.

    Immanentize

    @Gen:
    That strikes me as a valid media crticism. No?

    I’m just worried that people have candidates they like, maybe Buttigieg, so they are defending even third degree of separation, through the hoop, off center not direct imagined slights. And it seems to be men. Maybe white men? who are feeling all butt hurt about these indirect comments.

    I can say “two beers please” in at least seven languages. Travel will do that!

  43. 43.

    debbie

    @Betty Cracker:

    Seconded. I was shocked to hear during the OK teachers’ strike that they hadn’t gotten raises in 10 years. I cannot imagine anyone I know putting up with that.

  44. 44.

    Leto

    @Immanentize: Neat! I’m saving those as gift ideas for friends. Def ‘80’s pinky nail. Idk, balance on the easel?

    I can say “two beers please” in at least seven languages. Travel will do that

    Exactly! What better way to connect with people than food and drink?

  45. 45.

    Kay

    @Gen:

    Agree, especially because it wasn’t Buttigieg who diverted attention from Castro as a rising star, it was Beto.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    Mississippi teachers may go on strike. Mississippi. It would be illegal but a lot of the red state teachers strikes are illegal and that hasn’t stopped any of them. The Mississippi law barring strikes by teachers is particularly harsh, however, so they’ll be actually risking arrest.

  48. 48.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    Nationwide publicity will hopefully lessen the risk. I’d like to see state legislators go for years without a raise. Bastards.

  49. 49.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Raven: Georgia teachers fucked themselves when they refused to vote for Roy Barnes for governor, and we have had a Republican ever since. And that hasn’t been good for teachers or education in general

  51. 51.

    Leto

    @debbie: That was funny!

    @debbie: Agreed about public opinion lessening the risk, though do the state legislature members rely on that salary? I think many of the red state members would do it for free as long as they were able to fuck with POC, women, poor people, etc…

  52. 52.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: There is still time, lots of time, for anyone to be a rising star, don’t you think? I loved Beto when he was running against Cruz. Sent some scratch his way. I didn’t think about that race hurting Castro but I guess it did by his absence. He didn’t take that chance.

  53. 53.

    MomSense

    @Betty Cracker:

    I honestly think that the candidate who has been the subject of so much controversy here has been divisive and condescending in his comments. Our BIPoC commenters here in this jackal community are telling us he is dog whistling. I hope we listen and believe them. If the candidate is smart, he will listen, apologize, and make changes.

  54. 54.

    Immanentize

    @Leto: The Texas legislature, thank FSM, only meets every other year (imagine the damage if they met every year!)

    The legislators are expected to have other jobs.

  55. 55.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    I don’t think they’ll arrest them, for one thing they pay so little they can’t replace them. That’s what happened in West Virginia. They can’t attract new teachers to West Virginia. They can’t poach from a neighboring state because those states pay more.

    They’ve been getting a lot of their demands because they have leverage. My local school can’t find teachers right now. We literally cannot find and hire a foreign language teacher. We had one but she left for a suburban district that pays more and is close to a city. She was also the girl’s tennis coach, so that’s blown too now.

  57. 57.

    debbie

    @Leto:

    I catch an episode of Bob now and then, and I can’t help but imagine how my painting instructors would have reacted to some of his tricks and gimmicks. ‘THERE ARE NO HAPPY TREES IN A BARREN WINTER LANDSCAPE!”

  61. 61.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:
    Schools and courts are similar. Once wealthy people decided they could get their kid’s education on their terms (race, religion, whatever) they started to starve public schools.

    Once rich people discovered they could get law on their terms (private divorces, arbitration, mediation) they started starving the courts.

  62. 62.

    zhena gogolia

    Thank you — more of these kinds of posts please! More Harris, less Biden!

  63. 63.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    I don’t have any problem with them rising and falling. I think it’s part of a competition. I was not interested in Beto until I noticed how hard he works. God almighty. I’ve never seen anything like it. He has a lot of energy and enthusiasm and I think it’s natural to him- he actually enjoys this.

    I think it benefits the Democrats that the candidates are geographically diverse. I’m pleased that they’re from all over, including Indiana. Taken as a group they represent most of the country. We just lack a southerner.

  64. 64.

    MomSense

    @debbie:

    Interesting. I was thinking of the one from Indiana. I don’t know who the other unnamed one is. We have a code named one but I think we have near blog consensus on that one.

  65. 65.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    He’s got to match that energy and charisma with some policy chops pretty quick if he’s going to have a chance at this. He also needs to stop driving and filming. That has bothered me from the beginning. It’s not safe. I know it’s a thing to film while driving on social media but I think it’s irresponsible and dangerous and needs to stop.

  66. 66.

    Betty Cracker

    @MomSense: I am sick of defending Buttigieg in every other comment thread, particularly since he isn’t even in my top three list of favorite candidates, but I sincerely believe we’re going to destroy our party and let the vile shit-stain in the White House hang onto office for another four years if we keep going down this path. So I’m not going to shut up about it. It won’t always be Buttigieg, and I won’t shut up about it when it’s some other Democrat either.

  67. 67.

    debbie

    @MomSense:

    Huh, I assumed you meant the candidate from The Diamond State, a.k.a. The Small Wonder, a.k.a. The Blue Hen State, a.k.a. The First State. I should probably just go back to sleep. : /

  68. 68.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:

    We just lack a southerner.

    I hadn’t thought of it that way. Stacy Abrams would fit that bill? John Bell too, although I don’t think he is running….

  69. 69.

    debbie

    @Betty Cracker:

    I sincerely believe we’re going to destroy our party and let the vile shit-stain in the White House hang onto office for another four years if we keep going down this path.

    I so agree with you. And I’d bet the Rethugs are counting on it.

  70. 70.

    Barbara

    @Kay: A lot of teachers go to places like Mississippi and West Virginia to get experience that they need to get hired elsewhere. If, however, there is a thriving private school culture, as I suspect there is for white atuddnts, disproportionately at least, I would not bank on local or state officials caring a whole lot about public schools shutting down, unlike in WV or Arizona.

  71. 71.

    Barbara

    @debbie: What I wonder about O’Rourke or Buttigieg is whether they are actually doing the work of harnessing the energy they seem to generate at various places. A campaign is a long slog and organization is what usually separates the successful ones from a crowded field.

  72. 72.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    He’s got to match that energy and charisma with some policy chops pretty quick if he’s going to have a chance at this.

    I think I disagree with that. I think it’s a choice of strategy. I think it’s defensible politically, as a strategy, to work on generating interest and enthusiasm prior to getting into specifics. It’s a different approach than Warren or Harris, but I don’t think it’s a bad choice. Buttigieg says this overtly- he says Democrats don’t tell a story – he and Beto are starting broader and then narrowing, which IMO is a completely legit way to look at it. I have not seen a female candidate do this, but I’m not ready to say a female candidate CAN’T do this. One could try. It would be interesting to see if it’s possible.

  73. 73.

    MomSense

    @debbie:

    Did he announce and I missed it?

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think the onus is on the candidates not to do or say things that alienate democratic voters. I don’t think we should be afraid to call them out especially when they say things that hurt the actual base and soul of the Democratic Party. My hunch is this will sort itself out because candidates who dog whistle will not win the number of delegates they need but I don’t appreciate the harm he is doing while he figures it out.

    Why isn’t it the candidates responsibility not to destroy the party? He’s a smart guy. He can figure this out and fix it.

  76. 76.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:
    It depends where you start with Warren regarding a broad story. She has been telling, and raising money, off of her broad life story that really resonates everywhere. I think because we know her so we’ll, we don’t listen to that story as much as her policy positions now. Another issue of timing I suppose.

  77. 77.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: The teacher shortage is worse is most areas of the country than most people think. And since the numbers are so short, principals are having to take almost anyone who walks through the door, meaning there is a quality shortage that’s getting worse too.

    And on top of that, many of the school divisions in Virginia are seeing increased absentee rates too (which is how some teachers are understandably giving themselves a ‘raise’ and/or a mental health break). The number of subs called each day by the big divisions is just astounding.

  79. 79.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    I do think the female candidates are telling compelling stories but I also think that the way campaigning is in Iowa and New Hampshire – it’s retail and small group and issue oriented. One of my Iowa friends is a nurse and union rep. The candidates go to her house to talk to small groups of nurses. The candidates they like get larger audiences and a lot of help from them. It’s a little different in New Hampshire but still incredibly targeted. One of my volunteer gigs in 2007 in New Hampshire was driving policy experts to individual houses to persuade voters after a canvasser called me to say they had an undecided with a concern about foreign policy or health care or whatever the field of the expert was that day.

  80. 80.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    True, absolutely, for Warren. And maybe why the newbies spend less time on policy and more time on broad narrative- they haven’t established one.

    Buttigieg’s complaint that Democrats don’t tell a coherent story is common, too. I have heard it from Democrats my entire adult life. It is one of the Top Three Complaints of the base – I just took it as That Complaint Again, honestly :)

  81. 81.

    tobie

    @Barbara: O’Rourke’s campaign has been very good about keeping in touch with people who donated. I’ve given to three candidates and have gotten regular fundraising requests from all but only the O’Rourke campaign has emailed me, texted me, and even called me to ask if I would participate in or organize local events. I live in a late primary state so this is unexpected. I don’t know if they’re signing people up at campaign events in Iowa but I would imagine that every campaign is doing that. It would be political malpractice not to.

  82. 82.

    NotMax

    @debbie et al.

    Anyone else remember the original TV artist, Jon Gnagy?

    On May 13, 1946, Jon Gnagy was the first “act” on the first television program broadcast from the new channel 4 antenna atop the Empire State Building. Gnagy pioneered drawing on television in the United States from the early 1950s throughout the 1960s on his program, Learn to Draw, and his popular art kits are still available. Source

  83. 83.

    Immanentize

    @O. Felix Culpa: Ha. No, they aren’t more interesting, just way more comfortable. We have heard that before, check, nothing aberrational in the white guy’s tale.

    But women’s stories are just so messy, aren’t they? Way more interesting, but also more challenging.

  84. 84.

    snoey

    @Barbara: That’s the good part of our long disjointed nomination process. A lot of what it takes to win it – organization, ability to adapt to events, ability to control the narrative, are the same things that make for an effective president and this is the main chance we get to watch them do it.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    It would be fun to see a female candidate do a big rock star-y launch though. Confound that expectation that they have to work harder, be more serious- just see what happens.

    That’s why Klobachur interests me. We haven’t had a woman run on “look, I’m sort of an asshole” before. Maybe they DON’T, actually, have to be warm and caring and likable. We have so many we can try all kinds of things! :)

  90. 90.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: I love your perspective!
    But Senator K. started out ready to pitch herself as “Midwestern Nice.”. Then the stories came out and she is pivoting. Which, I find more honest than her planned persona.

    And she has a serious story to tell if she is willing to tell it.

  91. 91.

    Leto

    @debbie: I think about all the training he received and how he was able to distill those lessons into multiple thirty minute teaching sessions. Another gift from public television.

    @cliosfanboy: Stereotypically, a long pinky nail was a coke user thing. I’ve never seen a report about him and drugs, and given his military background, am highly disinclined to believe that. Sex? No clue…

    @Immanentize:

    they started to starve public schools.

    Thank you, James F’ing Buchanan. Libertarian douchebag originator of “public choice” via public schools circa 1950, carried forward today by Koch funding. I think his grave needs watering…

  95. 95.

    Sab

    @Betty Cracker: I like him but he’s not my number one. I just bought a tee shirt from his campaign. The other candidates I like don’t have stuff. Sad. I still contributed, but sad.

  97. 97.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    Harris had bigger attendance at her rally launch than Barack Obama did at his. I think her fundraising numbers surprised people and the media because she hasn’t gotten coverage commensurate with her performance.

    She’s a rock star but she’s not a man.

  100. 100.

    tobie

    @Kay: @Immanentize: I guess she’s embraced the line, “I’m a tough boss, I want results from my staff.” I’m not sure the public is ready to hear that from a woman. Time will tell. I did think it was genuinely collegial (I’m avoiding the word nice!) that she tweeted out the Kamala Harris’ education proposal was a good one.

  101. 101.

    geg6

    @Barbara:

    I don’t know about Mayor Pete but I can tell you that O’Rourke is organizing quite well from what I can see. I sent some money his way (sent to two others also) and his people have been texting, emailing and calling ever since, not usually for donations but for volunteering. Since PA is so late in the primary cycle, I’m impressed. Haven’t heard a word from the others I donated to other than cash blegs. He also has hired a bunch of Obama people, so I think he has a good team. Which also impressed me, I have to say.

  102. 102.

    WaterGirl

    @Gen:

    My new rule is of your candidate needs you to crap on other candidates, he’s not strong enough to stand on his own.

    I mostly agree with that, with the caveat that it seems to be the supporters of certain candidates who may think their person is not strong enough to stand on their own without denigrating the other candidates — not the candidates themselves. I have concluded that this sniping generally comes from a place of fear that their candidate won’t get a fair shot — or perhaps misplaced anger that should be directed at the media and not the candidate.

    So I’m not gonna hold those comments against the candidates — unless it’s someone like Wilmer whose supporters routinely attack other candidates — where it’s clearly part of Wilmer’s strategy.

    It’s frustrating when your preferred candidate can’t get traction because the media ignores them. Welcome to Martin O’Malley’s world, and many other candidates that came before him.

    In this, we are kind of like the rats in studies that turn on each other when they are confined to too close quarters. But instead of space, it’s media attention and resources that are driving the behavior.

  103. 103.

    Immanentize

    @tobie: I think so too. That is what we need from our candidates. Let us fight out the preferences. The primary could — and does — become a place where good ideas are tested and the ultimate platform will be an amalgamation of the best (I hope). Hillary adopted many of Bernie’s ideas and Obama took on many of Hillary’s.

  104. 104.

    NotMax

    @Immanentize

    It’s a delicate balance. I disagree with papering over cracks in the wall without patching them, so to speak, but object even more strenuously to deliberately creating new cracks.

  105. 105.

    tobie

    @geg6: I don’t know where you are in PA, but I’m in northeast MD, and I’ve already decided that come the general I will devote all my volunteer time to efforts in Chester and Delaware County. Please, Pennsylvania, let 2016 be a fluke.

  106. 106.

    Betty Cracker

    @MomSense: I’ve seen accusations of dog-whistling, but no evidence of it yet. The stuff he says about Trump voters? Any Democrat will say the same thing — Hillary Clinton literally did say the same thing in the infamous “deporables” speech. Whoever wins the nomination will say something similar — guaranteed. They’re trying to win.

    In a thread earlier this week, there was some discussion about an incident in Buttigieg’s record that doesn’t sit well with the black community in South Bend — the demotion of a popular police chief who allegedly illegally wiretapped some allegedly racist cops. From what little I was able to find to read about it, it’s unclear to me if Buttigieg handled it badly or not. I think some interviewer should bring that up. I’d like to hear more about it. That’s vetting, IMO, which is necessary. Smears aren’t.

    @Immanentize: Yes, and I managed to do it without taking a swipe at Buttigieg!

  107. 107.

    Immanentize

    @WaterGirl:
    I have some concern that Buttigieg is our new Beatlejuice. He is oddly divisive in certain directions and whenever a post mentions him, new nym people drop in for one comment to stir shit and don’t stick around to reply. Or am I misreading this?

  108. 108.

    Immanentize

    @NotMax: Right there with you. But what is papering and what is cracking? It’s a confusing part of the circumstances these days. Is appealing to heartland WWC as your strategy (Moulton, Ryan) patching or cracking?

  109. 109.

    Juice Box

    California has an $11/hour minimum wage and no tipped wage for servers, yet we have a thriving service and restaurant industry. Teacher base pay in my county is $61K with many experienced public school teachers making around $100K. It’s kind of weird that a high tax, high regulation state has such a thriving economy. It almost seems as if paying people decently results in a better economy for everyone.

  111. 111.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    “MIdwestern nice” never really meant that, though. That was your fault :)

    It isn’t really valued as “nice”. It’s valued more as “disciplined”. Not being showy.

    I do a thing in the public school every year where I go in for a 40 minute class for a week and we do a topic- they give me “business”. So they do a group project and last year I had a student whose family owns a large local company. Okay, so she’s an expert on business and she talked a lot about how her family owns this company. They put up with it for a while and then one of the boys said “is she going to get in trouble for bragging?” Yes! Definitely! Oversight on my part, thank you sir. Stop bragging, Alicia. It’s not warm and cuddly and expansive. It’s a limit.

  112. 112.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker:
    I’m still missing the swipe at Buttigieg. It seemed like – to me –the tweet was complaining about unfair media fawning while supporting Castro? No? Or is complaining about unequal media treatment now a swipe at a candidate who receives it?

    You could read it as a swipe at Buttigieg, but you don’t have to.

  114. 114.

    Leto

    @Immanentize: I’ve had two cups of coffee. I’m full up on liberty.

    @tobie: I think about my female commanders and how people (majority men) would talk about them. Too bossy and they were “shrill harpies” or “ball buster”. A lot of those women were no nonse, result oriented bosses. They were tough because the mentors they had in that profession were the same way.

    The flip side of that is if they were too open with their feelings they were painted as “wishy washy”, or just too female. Essentially it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t. They can’t be too bossy, but also can’t lose their femininity. Can’t be a shrew, can’t be too sexy. Can’t be dumb, can’t be the smartest person in the room. Personally our first female president can’t come too soon, although the misogyny that will be launched at her will probably be as great as the racism Obama faced.

  115. 115.

    MomSense

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think the problem is that since 2013 Buttigieg has been refusing to release the tapes of white cops saying racist things. If I were the mom of three black sons and my son’s were out trying to live their lives I’d be terrified every day of police encounters but especially knowing there are racist cops on the beat.

    We all were furious about Rahm not releasing the tape of the Laquan murder so why are we giving Mayor Pete a pass on this? I do think he gave a good apology for his all lives matter statement. I’m not so sure I believe that he didn’t know what it meant when he said it in 2015, however.

  118. 118.

    Leto

    @tobie: I’m right door in Montgomery county (PA). I could be persuaded to gimp along door knocking, or stuffing envelopes. I’ll call it advanced rehab.

  120. 120.

    tobie

    @Betty Cracker: This is a little out there but it pertains to climate refugees and govt funded research, which Tom Levenson posted about last night. One of the the things that the Dept of Agriculture used to track was how climate change was affecting the cycle for various pests, molds, and other pathogens that destroy crops. Much of this information was made publicly available and was a great resource for farmers worldwide who need to know not only when and what to plant but when and what to spray. The research divisions exploring this have been hollowed out…just when we need it most.

  121. 121.

    Sab

    @Kay: I love you explaining us to the rest of the country/world. You are very good at it.You even explain stuff between me and spouse, and we are both Midwestern.

  122. 122.

    J R in WV

    @JPL:

    …Unfortunately, if the Federal government gave teachers an additional many local governments would cut their salary by the same amount.

    Actually, seriously, the fed grants are envisioned as forcing local and state salary funding to remain the same in order to receive the additional federal monies. The fed is very well used to forcing their monies to be spent exactly in the manner prescribed, under penalty of law, as they say.

    Scared me a little bit when I started getting my own grants from EPA in the long ago !!!

  123. 123.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ve seen accusations of dog-whistling

    Our esteemed POC commentators have been raising that concern for a while now. I recall being told in another controversial situation that we should listen to them. :) Why not in this case?

  124. 124.

    tobie

    @Leto: That’s about the most succinct summary of the double bind for most women I’ve heard yet!
    @geg6: Pity–too far for me for a canvassing meetup!

  125. 125.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Tennessee teachers banned from using crowdfunding to buy school supplies

    Nashville Teachers Barred From Crowdfunding Are Back To Buying Supplies On Their Own

    That’s so strange, to me. Not letting the communities help fund nice things for their kids? Also EVIL shit, too!!! No surprise, Russo-Republicans striking at their own country to make us weaker, more stupid, less able to progress.

  126. 126.

    tobie

    @Leto: Cool! I’m a fast walker and dirty talker, but mr. tobie likes to mosey and is quiet, so his pace might match yours.

  127. 127.

    Betty Cracker

    @MomSense: Maybe someone from South Bend could shed more light on that incident, but from what I’ve read, Buttigieg says releasing the tape would be illegal since it was produced from an illegal wiretap, so it’s not really analogous to the McDonald tape, which was from a cruiser dashboard cam, IIRC, and therefore intended to be part of the official record.

    The cops the police chief recorded got big settlements from the city because the taping was illegal. Maybe it shouldn’t have been illegal to tape them, but apparently it was. Maybe Buttigieg should have released the tape anyway, even though that would supposedly be another illegal act that would expose the city to further liability.

    These are all good questions. As for the “all lives matter” thing, it’s cringey as hell, but HRC said the same thing that same year, so I tend to believe the explanation that it wasn’t meant as a dog whistle, especially if you read the speech in which the phrase appears. But again, that’s a totally legit issue, and reasonable people can disagree on it. I’m glad someone asked Buttigieg about it. It’s part of the vetting process.

  128. 128.

    debbie

    @MomSense:

    At this point, I don’t think having announced is making that much of a difference. But, to be honest, nominating anyone other than a female candidate will feel like a compromise, at least to me.

  132. 132.

    J R in WV

    @MomSense:

    He also needs to stop driving and filming. That has bothered me from the beginning. It’s not safe.

    He does have a co-pilot with, so it isn’t like Beto is trying to drive and video too. I think, anyway.

    If he kills himself in a car wreck, would that that be disqualifying? Where would all the energy go? \\

  133. 133.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s part of the vetting process.

    Yes, and Buttigieg is rightly getting vetted. I liked the idea of him a lot, at first. I lived in the midwest for many years and am married to a midwesterner with hyper-conservative, fundy roots, so I have at least a little insight into the culture that Buttigieg has to operate in. And yet…his comment about HRC in the Year of Our Lord 2019 lost me. He’s a smart guy, not some naif. He doesn’t get a pass for slagging the woman who got 3 million more votes despite being the target of documented unprecedented ratf*cking. I found that remark…plus a growing corpus of questionable remarks…a significant turnoff. It doesn’t help that Andrew Sullivan’s a newfound fanboi. ;)

  134. 134.

    Betty Cracker

    @O. Felix Culpa: We definitely should listen to them, and take any accusations made seriously enough to investigate for ourselves, as far as we’re able to. But then we have to make up our own minds. That’s my standard, anyway. It’s similar to accusations of sexual misconduct. In those cases, I don’t “believe women” period, full stop. I take their accusations seriously because I know most women don’t voluntarily put themselves at the center of a sexist maelstrom by falsely accusing men, especially powerful men, of harassment or assault. But then I need to see further evidence to corroborate the accusation. For example, Christine Blasey Ford met that standard, IMO.

  135. 135.

    Leto

    @tobie: Lol! I’ll gimp fast in the beginning, match the dirty talk, then will “check up” on Mr Tobie later and compare notes :)

  137. 137.

    chopper

    @Betty Cracker:

    a lot of people are pissed cause mayor pete just tanzed himself in to the race and is now getting all this media attention. and there’s a lot of eye rolling over it, the dude getting all the media attention.

    thing is this attention isn’t his fault, and any other candidate would love to get it. what’s he supposed to do, tell the media to pay attention to someone else?

    it grates on people tho.

  138. 138.

    tobie

    @O. Felix Culpa: I was also hurt by the jabs at Clinton and the blithe acceptance of the media and Republican framing that HRC didn’t talk about the issues affecting people’s lives, which is just not true. The line about Obama as a centrist in the Wash Post profile also rubbed me the wrong way. None of this stuff is disqualifying but it makes me less inclined to put myself out for his candidacy at the moment. These are early days, though, and things can change.

  139. 139.

    J R in WV

    @Immanentize:

    @Kay:

    We just lack a southerner.

    I hadn’t thought of it that way. Stacy Abrams would fit that bill? John Bell too, although I don’t think he is running….

    El Paso, TX is pretty far south, and TX was a part of the confederacy. In fact TX seceeded twice for the right to keep slaves, once from Mexico when they banned slavery, and then from the US when it just looked like we might ban slavery some day. F’k Texas, as I say!

  141. 141.

    Leto

    @J R in WV: I ask this because I haven’t seen his videos, but is he using his phone to record? As in, hand on the phone and hand on the wheel? Or is it a dash mounted GoPro?

  142. 142.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Betty Cracker: Fair enough, which is to say, I agree. I will also note that, as a female in the LGBTQ community, some of Mayor Pete’s comments are raising the hair on the back of my neck as well. I’ve seen this WHITE MALE behavior in the community before. So maybe the evidence is not fully out there yet, but the signals are being received by some of us. He’s certainly not the worst candidate possible and has many positives to offer, but I think we can do better.

    (With the usual disclaimer that I would crawl over broken glass etc. etc.)

  144. 144.

    Betty Cracker

    @O. Felix Culpa: Agree with you on that last point. Warren, Harris and Klobuchar are definitely higher on my list than Buttigieg so far. Maybe Gillibrand, Beto and Booker too. I don’t really know enough about Castro to have a strong opinion on him, but I like what I’ve heard so far. We have a strong field, and that’s a good thing!

  145. 145.

    tobie

    @germy: The New Yorker has the yearbook photos of the candidates up and notes their high school achievements. It’s kind of cute.

  146. 146.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker:

    especially if you read the speech in which the phrase appears.

    I just read it. I find it shocking that the word, “black” appears no where in the speech, but “all lives matter” does. And he vaguely refers to the police tapes and t-shirt disputes. FYI the t-shirt disputes was this:

    An Indiana police officer who created T-shirts riffing on the “I can’t breathe” protest slogan isn’t backing down from selling the controversial garb. The shirts read, “Breathe easy, don’t break the law” — an apparent reference to the last words uttered by unarmed New York City man Eric Garner during a fatal police chokehold in July. The words have since become a popular rallying cry at protests across the country.

    Nice place, South Bend

  148. 148.

    Redshift

    @Betty Cracker: I’m also especially wary when the thing a candidate has said that’s supposed to be objectionable is short enough to fit in a tweet. Even if the person who originally posted it saw it in context and reacted genuinely, there’s no way to judge how much of the outrage is on that basis and how much is people who only saw the isolated quote with a call to outrage. (And no one is immune from that; we all sometimes respond reflexively unless we work to avoid it.)

    I think that’s bad for two reasons. One is that trolls both from wingnuttia and the Russians, and also from other candidates (and one in particular) are weaponizing this stuff. But more generally, I don’t want candidates who think they have to be careful about every sentence. That’s how we got (back in the day) mush-mouthed Democrats who fed the narrative that they didn’t stand for anything.

  149. 149.

    schrodingers_cat

    @O. Felix Culpa: Also I doubt that he is fluent in 7 languages.
    Being able to say good morning != fluent. By that standard I could claim to be fluent in more languages than PB.

    ETA: MSM men (and women) are easily impressed by other people who look like them, and not impressed at all by people who are not the default in their eyes.
    In that they are exactly like the T base.

  150. 150.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Betty Cracker: He has put out one of the most comprehensive plans out there on the issue of these times, immigration. He also has paid attention to the plight of many in the long term visas and those waiting in GC lines. But MSM yawns because immigrants are not really people, to them.

  152. 152.

    Citizen Alan

    @Kay:

    My nephew is an elementary school teacher here in North Mississippi, and I have all but begged him to get out of Mississippi. And actually, out of the South (he’s worked in Hawaii for several summers and loved it). Every time I mention it, my sister gets mad at me, so maybe its my revenge on her for guilt-tripping me out of leaving Mississippi in 1987.

  153. 153.

    Citizen Alan

    @Kay:

    I think it benefits the Democrats that the candidates are geographically diverse. I’m pleased that they’re from all over, including Indiana. Taken as a group they represent most of the country. We just lack a southerner.

    Speaking as a Southerner, no we don’t.

  154. 154.

    Immanentize

    One last thought: “All lives matter” used as a phrase to end a section discussing race relations — chosen specifically as the words that would be used in a carefully designed speech — is a serious concern for me. That phrase was designed to negate the phrase “Black lives Matter.”. It was designed to negate the value of Black lives. Everyone knew that the minute it started being used.
    “All lives matter” sounds pleasant enough, but it is a MAGA hat — the near cousin of Charlottesville’s Nazi chants. Buttigieg did not need to say those words. He chose to say those words as punctuation to his comments on race.

  155. 155.

    Ruckus

    @MomSense:
    We agree on this.
    I think it’s our job to discuss both the positives and negatives of the candidates. They, and we all have them in some proportion, we are after all human. This is a contest to see who we think will do the best job. It’s too long, it’s too impersonal but we are choosing a leader, and not every who thinks they are, is one we want to follow. None of them have done the job before, none of them have done anything on this scale. Closest to that might be Harris, CA attorney general, or Warren, a senator. And yet that doesn’t mean they can do the job or that can’t. They have to have ideas of what they want to do, have the chops to at least make a positive effort and appeal to our prejudices, because we all have them, whatever they may be.
    We don’t have to do this with malice but this is our job. We have the luxury of being able to discuss this openly and change minds but we have the responsibility to make the attempt to get it right and the real problem is that we rarely know if we got it right until it’s all over. President Obama was the first in my life that I was sure of going in. OK I was also sure that Trump would fuck it up completely, and he disappoints even worse than imagined every day. That doesn’t generate quite the same warm feeling.

  156. 156.

    Johnnybuck

    @chopper: True, and I don’t blame him either, but it hasn’t seemed to affect his polling very much. I don’t expect him to be a major contender at any rate, so a lot of this won’t matter a year from now.

  157. 157.

    tobie

    Andrew Yang is getting a lot of airtime these days, it seems, and I have to say I find it god damn refreshing that someone is talking about the real threat to labor, which is automation, and the corporate tax code that has allowed Google, Facebook, Netflix, Amazon, Exxon and others to get away with paying no federal taxes. I won’t vote for anyone who has never held public office or worked in public service, and I’m not sure a Presidential campaign is the only way for Yang to get his message out. Last but not least, I tend to dislike self-proclaimed entrepreneurs. All that said, his economic message and proposal for UBI are the most compelling I’ve heard this go-around. I like Yang’s effort to articulate the industrial/technological revolution we’re experiencing and what it means for the nature of work. I also like that he rejects nostalgia.

  159. 159.

    Citizen Alan

    @Immanentize:

    My usual response to someone saying “All Lives Matter” is to say “Yes, except for Black Lives. Because they obviously don’t matter to you.”

  160. 160.

    Kay

    @JPL:

    Public schools figured that out long ago. “Supplement not supplant” is the rule they rely on. You can’t cut your teachers salaries and then get federal money to fill the hole you made.

    What would really be helpful for public schools would be if the federal government would fund special education to the extent they are supposed to. They passed a federal law mandating certain levels of special education (good) and funding (good) but then they only fund it at 30%. It is by far the most expensive item in any public school district.

    That’s real money year after year after year so we won’t see anyone proposing that :)

  161. 161.

    Kathleen

    @Immanentize: I love how you remember that Raven’s favorite bakery now opens at 8! I am a doughnut fanatic and favorite bakery rituals are sacred and an integral part of who I am.

  162. 162.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:

    We have a strong field, and that’s a good thing!

    Yes it is!
    But it does make it harder to decide because now the nits are the things that matter.

  163. 163.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    The other problem is that it takes a lot of time and effort to comply with special ed requirements – which is fine and important but not getting paid for hours long meetings and filling out forms is just stolen labor. In many school districts they sort of fudge mainstreaming by loading art, library studies, music, and phys Ed classes into the students’ schedules which is not fair to the students or the teachers. At the same time school districts change the art, librarian, music, and phys ed positions from teaching positions to Ed Tech positions which means they don’t get paid for any time outside class time and in many places don’t receive benefits.

  164. 164.

    Ruckus

    @Immanentize:
    VP is not the same as P. In theory the VP has to be able to take over. Yet how many VPs have been all that qualified? Do you think Biden was or is in any way able to fill President Obama’s shoes? Yeah I didn’t think so. I’ve slagged on Biden here because I don’t think he would be a good or effective president. He’d be running on his name and smile and that’s not anywhere near enough, not in this day and age.
    I don’t have the answers, none of us do, we have opinions. We have information, not all of it is reasonable, not all of it is true, not all of it is negative nor positive, not all of it is even real. We still have to decide, based upon our prejudices, our experiences, our expectations.

  165. 165.

    Suzanne

    @Gen:

    Makes me far less likely to support him in the next few months. I probably won’t settle on Buttigieg either but there’s no reason to denegrate him for being intelligent. Leave that to Republicans

    Agree.
    As someone who likes, but does not love, Castro, this kind of comment makes me like him less. A candidate who is really good doesn’t need to rely on shitty, passive-aggressive swipes at others. Just tell me why you’re good.

  167. 167.

    stinger

    @Nelle: About an hour and a half east — I come in for the Planned Parenthood booksale in October. Would love a meetup!

  168. 168.

    J R in WV

    @Leto:

    “I haven’t seen his videos, but is he using his phone to record? As in, hand on the phone and hand on the wheel? Or is it a dash mounted GoPro?”

    I haven’t seen a presidential campaign video, but the ones I saw when he was running for Senate in TX were shot by a campaign volunteer/employee riding with.

    Just got back from errands, wine, booze, oh, yeh, foods too.

  169. 169.

    J R in WV

    @Citizen Alan:

    @Kay:

    I think it benefits the Democrats that the candidates are geographically diverse. I’m pleased that they’re from all over, including Indiana. Taken as a group they represent most of the country. We just lack a southerner.

    Speaking as a Southerner, no we don’t.

    I could be considered a southerner I guess, being from W VA and south of the Mason-Dixon Line. But lots of the country is from south of that old surveyor’s line, like St Louis MO. I disclaim Virginia, we left Virginia deliberately because they were treasonous slavers, despicable through and thru. So glad Arlington National Cemetary is on the former treasonous Bobby E Lee estate, so appropriate!!

    I agree, although I will kick in to Stacy Abrams, again, if she runs for anything. I also supported Andrew Gillum, who should be living in the Gov’s Mansion now.

  170. 170.

    ProfDamatu

    @J R in WV:

    El Paso, TX is pretty far south, and TX was a part of the confederacy. In fact TX seceeded twice for the right to keep slaves, once from Mexico when they banned slavery, and then from the US when it just looked like we might ban slavery some day. F’k Texas, as I say!

    I know that you’re mostly joking, but….El Paso is not in any way, shape, or form “the South.” It’s much, much more like New Mexico than like Fort Worth or Waco. It just kinda rubs me the wrong way to hear my hometown, which BTW is about 85% Latinx, lumped in with places that still revere the confederacy. Also, I’m extremely confident that actual Southerners would be rather offended to hear an El Pasoan described as a Southerner. Unless we’re now calling the culture of New Mexico “the South.” :-)

  171. 171.

    debbie

    @laura:

    Ha! That is sweet, in a Ross sort of way. “Making love to the canvas” reminded me of a recent mini-marathon of his shows on the local PBS station. He had a small flying squirrel in his shirt pocket the entire show. From time to time, there were tiny squeaks and kicks. It was very odd.

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