The women of @TheView are practically begging @JoeBiden to make a more direct apology to Anita Hill. And it appears he continues to be unwilling to do so
— Mike Memoli (@mikememoli) April 26, 2019
Silver lining argument: It’s a good thing we’ve advanced enough that — for Democratic politicians, at least — it’s a problem when someone’s been ‘merely’ disrespectful / dismissive of women, without being actual rapists or pathological horndogs. Kinda like it was a problem for a certain long-term politician who praised then-candidate Barack Obama as “clean and articulate” back in 2007. Obama forgave Biden then; will voters (especially women voters, and voters of color) be as understanding today?
Jane Mayer, who was there for the hearings, at the New Yorker:
… Predictably, Biden was asked if he should have given Hill a fuller and more personal apology. Biden again stopped short of blaming himself, saying, “I did everything in my power to do what I thought was within the rules.” He then added, “I don’t think I treated her badly.”
Biden failed to acknowledge that, as the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1991, he set many of “the rules” that damaged Hill and determined the over-all fairness of the process. As Jill Abramson and I reported in our 1994 book about the Thomas confirmation fight, “Strange Justice,” several of Biden’s Democratic colleagues in the Senate later acknowledged that, in his eagerness to be impeccably fair to all sides, Biden got outmaneuvered by the Republicans. That left Hill and, ultimately, the truth undefended. As Howard Metzenbaum, a crusty Democrat from Ohio, later admitted, “Joe bent over too far backwards to accommodate the Republicans, who were going to get Thomas on the Court come hell or high water.” An adviser to Ted Kennedy, the Massachusetts liberal whose own womanizing eroded his credibility, was more critical still, saying, “Biden agreed to the terms of the people who were out to disembowel Hill.”
Even one of the top lawyers on Biden’s Senate staff at the time, Cynthia Hogan, now faults their handling of the hearings. As she admitted this week to the Washington Post, “What happened is we got really politically outplayed by the Republicans.” Hogan, now the vice-president for public policy for the Americas at Apple, explained that Biden had wanted to be seen as a neutral arbiter, while the Republicans instead wanted to win. “They came with a purpose, and that purpose was to destroy Anita Hill. Democrats did not coordinate and they did not prepare for battle. I think he would say that that’s what should be done differently.”…The staffers working for Metzenbaum and Kennedy, however, took Hill’s allegations more seriously and were the first to reach out to her. They urged Biden’s staff to talk to Hill as well. But the effort languished in Biden’s office, where his staff followed his personal rules, which went beyond those of the Senate. The aide who investigated the claim, for instance, declined to call Hill, requiring that Hill instead initiate contact. Once they spoke, the aide declined to act on Hill’s allegation unless Hill consented to Biden’s office confronting Thomas directly and disclosing Hill’s name to him. Hill, who hadn’t asked for any of this, demurred. Biden’s aide concluded that Hill had merely wanted to “get it off her chest.” The public, meanwhile, heard nothing about it…
Biden said in a later interview that he believed Hill from the start, but Thomas and his wife have said that Biden called them after reading the F.B.I. reports and assured them that there was “no merit” to Hill’s accusations. Further, Senator John Danforth, a Republican from Missouri who was Thomas’s primary sponsor, later said that Biden promised Thomas and his wife that, if Hill’s allegations leaked, he would be Thomas’s “most adamant and vigorous defender.”…
This is, it will be pointed out, very much in character for Collegial Joe, Champion of Working Across the Aisle. And sexual harassment was, at the time, a new-ish and still very much debated concept. But Biden absolutely does have to come up with a better response.
There is a sense among some within the Biden orbit that if he starts apologizing — for Anita Hill, for the women who felt uncomfortable with how he touched them, for anything else — that it will open up the floodgates and he'll never be able to stop apologizing
— Edward-Isaac Dovere (@IsaacDovere) April 26, 2019
Joe Biden knew Anita Hill was going to be an issue for him. So a few weeks ago, as he prepared for his presidential announcement, he reached out to her through an intermediary and arranged a telephone call, hoping to assuage her.
It did not go how he had hoped.
On Thursday, the first day of his presidential campaign, the Biden camp disclosed the call, saying the former vice president had shared with Ms. Hill “his regret for what she endured” 28 years ago, when, as the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, he presided over the confirmation hearings in which she accused Clarence Thomas, President George Bush’s nominee to the Supreme Court, of sexual harassment.
But Ms. Hill says the call from Mr. Biden left her feeling deeply unsatisfied.
In a lengthy telephone interview on Wednesday, she declined to characterize Mr. Biden’s words to her as an apology and said she was not convinced that he has taken full responsibility for his conduct at the hearings — or for the harm he caused other victims of sexual harassment and gender violence.
She said she views Mr. Biden as having “set the stage” for last year’s confirmation of Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh, who, like Justice Thomas, was elevated to the court despite accusations against him that he had acted inappropriately toward women. And, she added, she was troubled by the recent accounts of women who say Mr. Biden touched them in ways that made them feel uncomfortable…
Ms. Hill, a deeply private woman who does not often speak publicly about her experience, said she does not find Mr. Biden’s conduct disqualifying. “I’m really open to people changing,” she said.
But, she added, she cannot support Mr. Biden for president until he takes full responsibility for his conduct, including his failure to call as corroborating witnesses other women who were willing to testify before the Judiciary Committee. By leaving them out, she said, he created a “he said, she said” situation that did not have to exist.
“The focus on apology, to me, is one thing,” Ms. Hill said. “But he needs to give an apology to the other women and to the American public because we know now how deeply disappointed Americans around the country were about what they saw. And not just women. There are women and men now who have just really lost confidence in our government to respond to the problem of gender violence.”…
Mr. Biden’s disclosure, and Ms. Hill’s interview, underscore the former vice president’s potential vulnerability from an event that is nearly three decades old, but that has new resonance in the #MeToo era and the aftermath of last year’s Kavanaugh hearings. That it erupted so quickly, with his campaign only hours old, suggests that Mr. Biden’s treatment of Ms. Hill will echo throughout his campaign unless he can find a way to convincingly put it to rest….
With Mr. Biden almost an instant front-runner in a very crowded Democratic field, the subject of Anita Hill is a delicate one among Democrats — even those who believe Mr. Biden bungled the hearings. Many former Judiciary Committee aides and other people who participated did not want to talk on the record because they feared that scrutiny of Mr. Biden’s past conduct would undermine the campaign of the candidate some think could be best positioned to defeat President Trump, whose treatment of women is a huge issue for Democrats…
And Professor Hill is not the only woman to whom Joe Biden has been… less than respectful:
Daily Beast reports Biden campaign didn't tell Heather Heyer's mother that he'd be invoking his daughter's murder in his campaign launch video.
"Most people do that sort of thing. They capitalize on whatever situation is handy" https://t.co/KJhwUBDHk9
— Brandon Wall (@Walldo) April 25, 2019
This is exactly what Joe would NEED to do, *IF* Senator Harris isn't the nominee, herself.
That said, it's been like 7 hours since Biden released this video, and we are already creating tickets for him. Meanwhile, the women with policy are relegated to the undercard… https://t.co/aAsB0YUwOs
— Bärí A. Williams (@BariAWilliams) April 25, 2019
Brachiator
So Biden tried to be fair. What a loser.
And the asswipe in the White House only cares about one woman, and that’s his daughter.
I think that Biden is too old to be a good candidate. And he failed before when trying for the nomination, not a good track record. But I would like for him to at least be able to help rally the voters for the eventual nominee.
laura
Joe Biden’s going to have his whole ass out on the street by week’s end at this rate.
As for Andrea Mitchell and what she thinks makes perfect sense for the Dem ticket, is just a bucket of spit and cigarette butts value-wise.
TenguPhule
And our Congressional Democrats have a goddamn stupidity problem.
STOP TRYING TO FUCKING KICK LUCY”S FOOTBALL FOR FUCK’S SAKE.
Let me predict the future.
1. Democrats offer to pay for Italian.
2. Republicans insist on adding Tire Rims and Anthrax.
3. Trump insists on Ebola and AIDS for good measure.
4. Media blames Democrats for failing to compromise and not passing an infrastructure bill.
If we’re going to shout that Trump is not legitimate and unfit to be in office, it makes zero sense to turn around and treat him as a rational adult when it comes to legislation.
The voting public is dumb. But not this dumb.
Stop trying to behave as if everything is normal. Stop trying to find any fucking middle ground with goddamn Nazis.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
High Tumbrel Number Awardee and Villager Hack, Andrea Fucking Mitchell, said:
This is our Inside The Beltway, Conventional Wisdom of the day. Which means Dems should bend over backwards to avoid such an outcome. Never gonna happen tho. Of course when he doesn’t get the nomination, turds like Mitchell will start in on how Dems avoided nominating someone who could reach across the aisle, yada, yada, yada. We’ve seen how that turned out, well starting with Biden and the Hill hearings.
randy khan
Over time, I’ve found that I’ve come to a better understanding of what happened in those hearings, and Biden really has to bear a pretty heavy share of the blame. There was no urgency at all to confirming Thomas on any particular schedule, so there was no reason to rush the end of the hearings. The decision not to hear from the other women, which really was Biden’s decision, was unnecessary and wrong, and there was a lot he could have done before that to treat Hill more fairly. He blew it.
Gin & Tonic
@laura: I’m going to go (not too far) out on a limb and suggest that Andrea Mitchell has never voted for a Democrat in her life, so I don’t see why any Democrat should give half a shit about what she thinks “makes perfect sense.”
Major Major Major Major
Apparently Mayor Pete is stopping by our headquarters for a “special speaking event” next week. I, alas, will be out here in the NYC satellite office, but I imagine I’ll watch the livestream.
ruemara
I love being a black woman. No matter how accomplished, smart and clearly superior equanimity, relegated to being a handmaiden to Beloved Jocular White Guy. Fabulous.
randy khan
@TenguPhule:
The Dems have a substantive agenda, and they’re not going to hide it just because the guy in the White House is a crazy idiot. This is consistent with the broader strategy they’ve been following of passing bills in the House that show what Democrats want to do. None of that precludes going after Trump for all of the reasons they should be going after him.
And right now, the only infrastructure plan that’s actually out there is the one the Dems are pitching, a point that many news articles will mention one way or another.
trollhattan
How’s Howard Schultz doing lately? I’m not seeing much press and am concerned he may not be getting traction for his compelling message that billionaires are more innovative and should be president.
Immanentize
On a different candidate topic…. I gotta say I love how Warren ‘splains things. Her recent “If you own a house you already pay a wealth tax” is just brilliant.
Immanentize
@randy khan: Also, they won big in 2018 on plans, not pissing matches.
Ruckus
I for one have no desire for Biden to be on the ticket or elected. Is he more desirable than say Trump? By too many miles to walk in a lifetime. Is he more desirable than BS? By almost the same number of miles.
Is he a great candidate? No. He has too much unsuitable baggage. The two biggest are Hill and the credit card bill. That’s not the only baggage he has. He would be 78 when he takes office. That is way too old. Now on the other hand he seems like a rather nice person who is on the right side of the political aisle. That isn’t near enough.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
Seconded.
Martin
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Know what would appeal to more people would would actually vote for a Dem in 2020? A Harris-Warren ticket, or any Harris-not Biden one for that matter.
Ruckus
@ruemara:
I like you.
Keith P.
I am really tired of this “apologize. Now apologize more better” game. We already did this with Hillary’s email server but she was constantly asked to apologize while Trump gets to claim the voice on the pussy tape isn’t even him and that the voters don’t care any more because he won.
kindness
I love you Joe. Go home and enjoy your Grandkids. Just sayin’.
Cacti
@Harbison:
Nope.
NotMax
Gee, Joe, nothing in Neil Kinnock’s extensive public speaking record to cover this?
patrick II
That should be the Democrats in Congress slogan.
Leto
Reposting: John Oliver’s interview with Anita Hill regarding workplace sexual harassment and Biden. Begins at 17:38.
Ruckus
@Martin:
My fav is Harris/Warren.
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
See the first part of this comment.
Listening to any republican for any political or other advice is never a good idea.
I don’t think AFM has ever given good advice on any topic. Maybe she’s told someone not to cross against the red light but there’s that red concept so I doubt even that.
Nicole
Biden seems to believe the problem with the other side is Trump alone, when in fact, the other side IS the problem. I cut Obama some slack for trying to work with the GOP, but by now, I have no interest in any candidate who does not recognize Trump is the rot just finally showing up where everyone can see it, and not the source, which is much deeper and much wider.
Cacti
@Martin:
And your evidence for Warren having broader appeal than Biden is?
Raoul
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Look, if we’re gonna have a Black lady / white dude ticket (eta: Warren as veep works too), I’m much more inclined towards a Harris/Buttigieg offering. Its early days, and Pete may well fade as the flavor-of-the-month, but why is Biden proffered as the top of the ticket?
Oh, maybe because Andrea Mitchell is within spitting distance of Joe in age and so she doesn’t feel so threatened by the destabilizing change that a Black + gay ticket would signal.
*Obligatory disclaimer that I’ll support whatever g.d. combo platter of people eventually gets the Dem nod. Winning isn’t optional, but man do I feel ready for something a bit more fresh on the hot take parade than what Alan Greenspan’s spouse is warming over.
Kirk Spencer
So for giggles, I would love watching heads explode if the nominee chose Hillary as their vp candidate.
JPL
@Immanentize: I agree with your comment about the wealth tax and she’s spot on. I’m streaming MSNBC and they covered a little bit of Joe’s speech. He also is spot on because we are really in a fight for the soul of America. Nicole Wallace said the last election, trump won and soul lost.
Major Major Major Major
@Raoul: I think Harris/Buttigieg is one of the more likely outcomes.
Betty Cracker
@Harbison: IIRC, Biden’s shitty handling of the Hill hearings, Iraq War vote, etc., caused a lot of folks to gravitate toward not-Biden candidates in 2008 when he was still competing for the top job. I’m pretty sure Hill commented at the time, but I don’t know for sure and am too lazy to look it up.
JPL
@kindness: He can go home as long as wounds Sanders first and he can.
ruemara
@Ruckus: I am a little blunt, good sir.
billcinsd
@Ruckus: don’t forget the bill making student loan debt non-dischargeable in bankruptcy
Major Major Major Major
Cacti
@Raoul:
I’ll give the benefit of the doubt that this is a serious question. The answer is:
He was the Vice President on a national ticket that won the two highest vote totals in US history. Everyone else has the next year and a half to make their case for why they’re the better choice, despite the former.
rikyrah
@TenguPhule:
The only good Nazi is a dead one.??
Miss Bianca
@JPL: I’m with you on this one. If Joe only stays in the race long enough to bring the wood to Bernie Sanders – and Trump, while he’s at it, since he is uniquely positioned to do so – he will have played his part.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Harbison:
“Triggered”? This isn’t 4chan or 8chan or 9gag. Don’t use that word that way.
Major Major Major Major
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: feeden Sie nicht die Trolls, bitte!
TenguPhule
@randy khan:
Death Panel Truck
He did it as a senator; he’d do it as president. We all saw how successful Obama was in trying to work with an implacable enemy. Biden would do no better. It’s time to open the car door and leave old pols like him (and Bernie) on the side of the road.
Fuck no, Joe.
Ruckus
@Nicole:
This.
Trump got elected not because he was the savior of the republican party, it was because he is the republican party, just out loud. For the last 70 yrs the republicans have been saying all the quiet parts of their political ideals in those back rooms and what and who they oppose out loud. Trump is really the first to say the quiet parts out loud. That’s why he got elected.
SiubhanDuinne
@laura: @comrade scotts agenda of rage:
@Gin & Tonic:
I share all y’all’s scorn of Andrea Mitchell, but it looks to me as though she is quoting Chris Matthews in that tweet.
Of course, my scorn for Tweety rivals my scorn of Andrea Mitchell, so I guess it’s a distinction without a difference.
rikyrah
@Major Major Major Major:
I can’t say that this is a bad stance. I have been convinced by Kay of the merits of Medicaid for All
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Major Major Major Major:
Sometimes I just can’t help myself
Raoul
@Cacti: I understand how this country’s conventional wisdom machine confers front runner status to former VPs. I’m just not convinced that the CW has produced the most effective results for our country.
It’s only worked four times, and there was a loooooong gap between Martin Van Buren and GHW Bush (and gee, wasn’t poppy Bush swell!? His offspring was a disaster, though the Trump relative-comparison-rehabilitation-program has retroactively sanitized Dubya to some bizarro extent).
Ruckus
@ruemara:
No. You are not.
I ask, has the quietness worked? Sure there are times that one has to be quiet and soft. I was in the military and understand that not making waves is the safe bet, but does it get shit done?
Cacti
@Ruckus:
Trump got elected because Bernie Sanders, the other Kremlin candidate, helped him keep it close enough to steal.
Mike in DC
@SiubhanDuinne: Most MSNBC shows have a “live handoff”, where the host of the previous show hands off to the host of the next one. Nobody hands off to Matthews on Hardball, and he doesn’t hand off to Chris Hayes. I think he’s not that beloved by the other hosts, and the feeling’s mutual. Tweety’s nostalgia for a bipartisan era which was not as bipartisan as he remembers and which at any rate permanently died 25 years ago…is annoying to the point of being obnoxious.
Cacti
@Raoul:
I don’t doubt that it’s likely another candidate will outlast him. But the reason he’s the frontrunner at this early stage is the same reason for anyone that’s usually an early front runner. Name recognition and established brand. Obama overcame that in 2008. We’ll see if someone from this year’s Dem field has the chops to do so in 2020.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike in DC:
Had never noticed that, but I think you’re right. He is such a spluttering blowhard, I don’t know why anyone willingly goes on his show. Who the hell is his audience? I guess he must have one (I hear snippets of him on XM radio maybe once a week or so when I’m in the car).
Kent
My problem with Biden is that he has been in politics since when? 1969? And I have a hard time putting a finger on a single actual thing he has either accomplished or taken the lead on. He has a couple of flame-out presidential campaigns. He botched the Clarence Thomas hearing. He’s been in the tank for the credit card and banking industries since forever and shepherded the bankruptcy bill. He’s been on the wrong side on civil rights, women’s rights and abortion for a LONG time until those positions became untenable.
But what has he actually ACCOMPLISHED? Nothing more than Bernie from my point of view.
As for potential VP picks? If he somehow wins the nomination he will pick whoever is most likely to get him across the finish line. That might be Harris, it might not. He would be criminally stupid to pick someone just to make Andrea Mitchell wet. Its all about the electoral college and beating Trump. It might likely/possibly be someone not actually running today. Most VP picks aren’t actually from the also-rans.
JPL
@Major Major Major Major: Dave had another tweet also
Fox has pretty much left him alone up to now. We will clearly see what happens after today.
btw Dave always seemed enamored with Sanders to me. Do you find that also?
Major Major Major Major
@Kent: I believe VAWA is considered Biden’s signature accomplishment.
Kattails
@ruemara: True that. Being female but white, I can’t accurately assess how much is due to just having lady parts vs. pigmentation. The Williams tweet uses the phrase “the women with policy are relegated to the undercard…” which suggests she’s including Warren in her take.
Sigh. And I just had a rather testy phone conversation with a friend who’s been in Arizona for the winter, she’s gushing over Wilmer, how experienced, how he can corral the kids, how he’s consistent on his ideas, blah blah. I’d mentioned being able to see Harris recently and got the Wilmer spiel. This friend is over 70 and believes herself to be a good lefty but would be fine if BS split and destroyed the Democratic party. While we have two very solid “women with policy” running…
At least blood pressure medication is cheap.
Kent
@Mike in DC:
The best handoffs were actually on CNN between Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon when Cuomo used to lead Lemon’s show. They would really cut loose sometimes and go WAY off script. I found it fun to watch anyway. The actual shows themselves, not so much.
randy khan
@TenguPhule:
I heard you the first time. I just think you’re wrong; see 2018 as an example.
Major Major Major Major
@JPL: Weigel is a cryptolibertarian who is good at covering base politics. Can’t say I remember having an opinion on his opinion on Sanders.
joel hanes
I’d rather the nominee was someone else, and will not vote for Biden in the primary.
However, if the cross-tabs from Super Tuesday show that the black women who are the core of the Democratic electorate want Biden above other candidates, I’ll contribute to his campaign and vote for him.
That is to say: “electability” arguments don’t sway me, but electability as expressed in primary votes does.
Kent
@Major Major Major Major:
OK, I’ll give him that. But it isn’t exactly front and center in terms of his bio or campaign. Maybe it goes against the persona they are now wanting to promote. The Dem “Joe the Plumber” union guy thing.
JPL
@Kent: Domestic violence against women act is something he fought for. Because he’s such a touchy feelly guy people forget that.
I know someone similar to Joe as far as hugs go. This person left the repub party after trump was elected. Anyway he’s fairly fortunate and he let’s make a wish or similar organizations use his plane. The person I know is as authentic a person as they come. It was after meeting this person that I realized that sometimes a hug or a touch is just a hug or touch. Joe’s inability to handle the Anita Hill hearing still irks me.
Martin
@Ruckus:
Someone recently offered up an interesting theory, that I’m having trouble rejecting. Obama was by all accounts a model president. No, he didn’t get everything right, but he honored the office. He was without scandal. He was obviously smart and sensitive, even if he couldn’t bowl well. He along with the rest of his family proved quite definitively that black people are not inferior to white people (something that was at least an open question from the vantage point of evidence offered). The response to that was to elect the most inferior white person possible just to demonstrate that the worst white person is still preferred to the best black person. I don’t think most of Trumps supporters openly realize that, but subconsciously they seem to. It certainly makes a lot of sense.
JPL
@Major Major Major Major: thanks The reason that I asked is because I have such a low opinion of Bernie that can cloud my view when someone is covering him.
Cacti
@Kent:
As a Senator: The Brady Bill, the 1994 assault weapons ban, and the Violence Against Women Act.
As Vice President: The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, and the Affordable Care Act
Bernie, by comparison, has been the primary sponsor of a couple of bills to rename post offices.
JaneE
My preferred tickets do not include Biden. I would love to see Warren-Harris, Warren-Booker, or Warren-Castro. If I could clone her I would go with Warren-Warren.
rikyrah
@ruemara:
Uh huh
Uh huh ??
zhena gogolia
@Keith P.:
I’m with you. I’m not joining in eliminating any Democrat. (Note I said Democrat.)
Ksmiami
@Raoul: what I want is someone to unequivocally say that the current GOP is comprised of Nazis and there will be no compromise with evil.
Major Major Major Major
@zhena gogolia: other than Tulsi, of course.
JPL
@zhena gogolia: Since I plan on supporting the candidate, I’m with you. Early on Harris excited me, but at this point all of them are more qualified than the asshole in house
debbie
It’s bad enough he can’t just apologize to Anita Hill for the greater good of the party. All I’m hearing from him is about the working men and women, a lot of whom have shown no respect for POC and other minorities. I am not comforted.
NotMax
@SiubhanDuinne
Time was he was the Big Honcho at MSNBC, powerful enough to demand and get the expulsion of Phil Donahue for daring to question Bush/Iraq.
An ineradicable black mark on Matthews’ resume, IMHO.
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major:
Yeah, I’m tired of typing that!
trnc
@Brachiator:
I could be missing some ninja-level snark here. Actually being fair is not a problem. Handicapping the hearings in a way that kneecapped Hill and other victims and played into republican politics in the appearance of being fair is.
zhena gogolia
OT, but I’m catching Samantha Bee’s alternative WHCD in bits and pieces on YouTube, and it’s pretty damn funny.
Martin
@JPL: I give Joe a lot of leeway here. I don’t know of any sexual accusations against him. But this is guy who suddenly lost his wife and daughter and nearly lost his son. I think he’s just a person that really deeply cares about others and tends to invade the personal space of others a bit. I’ll take genuinely caring about the well being of any person over that minor social slight.
I have plenty of objections to actions he took in the past, but I’m also not going to judge someone too harshly for not adopting 2019 cultural viewpoints in 1998, provided that they were at least 1998 viewpoints. So, I won’t blast him for that, but I may politely note that we have different problems before us and so we need different people to solve them.
I think it’s impossible for a 70 year old, regardless of how well intentioned they may be, to understand and represent the needs of 30 year olds. I think it’s impossible for a man to fully represent the needs of women. Respect them, sure, but they will never be weighed against other issues in the same way. Representation matters. It matters so much that white people are willing to kill non-white people over it, men kill women over it. The only way to remove old white male cultural assumptions in this country is to stop electing old white men. Joe and Bernie can try all they want, they can’t do it. Beto is younger, but that’s not quite enough for me. Pete adds something. Corey adds something. Warren adds something. Kamala adds something. Every time we have a ‘choose your favorite white male’ contest, the nation loses ground.
Leto
@Nicole: This. If the “sane” Rethugs want to work towards better our society, fine. But I have a better chance of beating Usain Bolt in the 100 than finding “sane” Rethugs who are willing to help make society better, as a whole.
@Martin:
BURN IT ALL DOWN!!!
I’ve seen that same theory advanced. The subconscious racist mind is not a place I care to dwell for too long. That way lies madness.
VeniceRiley
@trnc: Yep. Biden’s main problem is his inability to see the enemy. He thinks they’re his friends.
His problem with women stems directly from that issue, and the Thomas hearing and subsequent problem is just a symptom of his original sin. He cannot be trusted.
Kent
If he can beat Trump I’ll support him. But I think we have better choices in the primary. At this early stage I’m most behind Harris but happy with any of the younger more substantive candidates.
My fear about a Biden presidency is that he would fall into old bipartisan habits and appoint a bunch of Republicans or old-guard Dem-lite types to important cabinet positions and we would fall back into permanent gridlock until the next election as all those silly gestures would be laughed at by McConnell.
What Hillary understood, and I think Obama came to understand, is that in the face of an obstructionist GOP Senate you have to fight every battle in the executive branch bureaucracy through executive orders and regulations and budgeting. I’m not sure that Biden really gets the sort of war we are currently in. And that means putting your absolutely best people into top cabinet positions. Not aged old centrist GOP or Dem colleagues.
Ruckus
@Martin:
I find that somewhat plausible but I doubt that would be enough motivation for many to even vote. Numbnuts got a large number of people to vote for him and that suggests to me more than just sub conscious decisions/desires.
I would certainly keep that idea in mind for large group political dynamics but most people seem more positive than “I’m going to screw myself just to make a point to all the people that voted for the black guy, that the worst white guy in the world can’t possibly be as bad.”
But then again, no one has ever gotten rich overestimating the racist mind.
Gex
@Brachiator: I don’t know that promising the Republicans in the Senate gym locker room to keep the hearings short and then refusing to call corroborating witnesses to the hearings constitutes trying to be fair. I’d say he was trying to look fair, but he had already taken the side of Republicans on the committee over the process.
Ruckus
@Martin:
New rotating tag nomination.
Brachiator
@trnc:
The quote in question from Strange Justice comes to the conclusion that Biden was trying to be fair.
@Gex:
This does not seem to be the conclusion of the authors of Strange Justice. Are they liars?
Clearly, Biden failed Anita Hill. I don’t know that he did so deliberately or out of malice. Nor does the reporting cited here make that assertion or come to that conclusion without reservation.
Wayne Marks
STOP! JUST STOP! The circular firing squad. Biden’s got every right to run as anyone else does. I want to see a different vision for this country than Donald Trump’s racist idiocracy and I’d like to see a woman candidate win. If you don’t like Biden, don’t vote for him in the primary, but if he becomes the nominee we must stand behind him. Lumping him up when he’s just out of the gate is decidedly unhelpful. If nothing else, he’ll make the other candidates stronger and help her win. If you crap on him, you’re helping Trump. Let the game play out.
PS. – He’s Obi Joe Kenobi… Feel the force.
gorram
He shouldn’t be running, full stop.
debbie
@Brachiator:
He’s now being given opportunities to correct that perception, but seemingly refuses to. That’s the point.
Immanentize
@Leto:
I love this mix of sports, Diogenese and snark about your own crazy moment. I give it a 9 out of 10! Great beat, you can dance to it.
Gin & Tonic
@Martin:
So he should sit the fuck down and take up knitting.
I do not need or want an octogenarian President, and I do not think the Democratic Party needs or wants an octogenarian President.
Tenar Arha
@Keith P.: I agree that asking him to personally “apologize” to Hill is worthless in my eyes. As an example of what he’s accomplished or failed at in his own right, it’s just one more in a long list of reasons that I believe he’s too out of touch with the current position & ideas of Democrats to be my preferred candidate in the primaries. OTOH He’s had 28 years to learn something new from that experience, and yet he’s always Jon Snow.
I really cannot pretend that it doesn’t matter to me though. Incredibly, for the guy who helped spearhead getting VAWA passed, Biden still doesn’t seem to understand why it’s a BFD that he cannot accept his responsibility in how Hill was treated. Or even accept that it was all on him, as the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, that those hearings were a prurient circus. (Since I blame Grassley for how he ran the Blasey-Ford hearing, I believe may justifiably blame Biden for how he ran the Hill hearing).
Brachiator
@debbie:
The facts are already out there. I don’t know how he can correct that perception. But if it would matter, he certainly should apologize or do whatever is required. I’m not sure it would make any difference.
ns
Biden’s refusing to apologize for this makes it seem like he is treating this as a “Sister Souljah” move that will help him win the general election.
(For the record, I will not be voting for Biden in the primary, and I won’t defend his action or inaction IRT Anita Hill. Just pointing out the depressing political reality of our time: Biden probably doesn’t mind this coming up now and again, unless it costs him the nomination. It suits his political purpose for this fight to be happening.)
johnnybuck
@Wayne Marks: Right there with ya pal. Biden is probably my 5th choice behind Harris, Warren, Beto, hell even Mayor Pete. This thing will take care of itself. Way too early to be personally invested in any of it frankly.
If they think he can beat Trump, who am I to argue?
debbie
@Brachiator:
Considering all he’s offered so far are Republican-style non-apology apologies, I think an honest and direct “I’m sorry” would go very far. Biden needs to recognize it will take more than the PA working class to win the election.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
I’m watching Biden’s speech on DVR and it was a pretty strong emotional appeal to working class voters and union voters. And he wasn’t afraid or uncomfortable to bring up race and antisemitism.
If he keeps this up, he’ll be formidable.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Wayne Marks: @johnnybuck: me three
I’ve got a lot of problems with Biden, but if I were a low-info, left-leaning voter, like most of them, I would say the guy I heard talking today was someone I could vote for. And unless we make Mitch McConnell minority leader and kill the filibuster (something else I’m ambivalent about but I think it’s gotta go), the White House will just be one thumb in a leaky dike, a big important thumb, but a thumb
CindyH
@Cacti: qft
Amir Khalid
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m late to the thread beause I do have to sleep sometimes. But it’s “Füttern Sie nicht die Trolls, bitte!”
eemom
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Death, heretic!!
Anouthouse
Biden is Hillary part 0.1. I don’t remember an established pol being elected President in my life time. He’s less qualified than she was.
JR
Biden’s the front runner because he was the VP for the best presidency in modern history. And people should recognize that less visible democrats, often older and less white than commonly assumed, support him. We have a long way to go, so if someone can prove that they are better, please do so. I will throw my unqualified support behind whoever wins, even Bernie.
Martin
@Cacti: Last election the female candidate got 3 million more views than the male candidate. Since that’s as deep as the ‘we need a white male to appeal to voters’ argument is, I stand by it.
Ruviana
Everyone’s gone to other threads but a really great overview of all the problems with Biden’s candidacy was at LGM today. I expect he’ll get shredded on a lot of the issues mentioned there.
Terry Chay
The silver lining here is Biden takes the misogynist man vote from the Bernanator
low-tech cyclist
@Keith P.:
No, it’s “apologize for what you freakin’ DID, not for the trivial infraction you’d like to pretend is all you did.”