The Post did a piece today on Chasten Buttigieg, husband of Pete, in the Style section. He’s a fun follow on Twitter, and I’ve seen a couple of clips of him on TV, where he comes across as witty and sweet. I wouldn’t have guessed Chasten had such a hardscrabble life growing up as the youngest of three brothers in a low-income family in Traverse City, Michigan:
The older boys, Rhyan and Dustin, were athletes and hunters. While they were out chopping wood with their dad, Chasten says, “I would be inside reading Harry Potter or singing Celine Dion at the top of my lungs while my mom and I were dusting the cabinets.”
I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that parents who would spell “Ryan” with an “h” weren’t consciously making a statement by naming their youngest “Chasten.” Is that mean? Maybe. I don’t intend it that way, FWIW.
Anyhoo, the article describes family turmoil when Chasten came out. His parents weren’t accepting at first, but they eventually came around, so much so that they gave him away at his wedding. The brothers never reconciled. One is now a preacher and says he doesn’t agree with his youngest brother’s “lifestyle.” (Fuck that guy!)
The article recounts how Chasten eventually fled his hometown and went to college to study theater, sometimes sleeping in his car as a homeless student. After getting a degree, he worked as a teacher at a drama academy, but since the job didn’t offer benefits, he moonlighted as a Starbucks barista. How very millennial! The Post again:
When he was growing up, Chasten knew politics mainly as “the thing that made life harder.” In 2006, when he was in high school, only 43 percent of respondents to an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll said they were either comfortable with or enthusiastic about the idea of a gay presidential candidate. When pollsters asked a similar question this year, the number was 68 percent. That doesn’t mean America will elect a gay president in 2020, but it’s no longer outlandish to picture Chasten in the East Wing.
You spelled Beyoncé wrong https://t.co/IdCusEfANc
— Chasten Buttigieg (@Chas10Buttigieg) April 18, 2019
Although I like him just fine, Pete Buttigieg isn’t my top choice for the nomination. That said, it’s a huge deal that a gay man is a serious contender for the office and that his husband gets the Post Style section treatment.
Sometimes when I’m feeling particularly depressed about the state of things in this country, I remind myself how much progress we’ve made, just in my lifetime, including on gay rights. Makes me proud to be a Democrat!
Open thread!
trollhattan
I haz a sad that there’s no chance of him ever dating Jessica Chastain.
trollhattan
How fucking great is Eric Idle? This fucking great.
schrodingers_cat
Besides the media darling PB, has anyone other candidate’s spouse merited a puff piece in our major publications yet.
Shorter WP:
OMG He is so cute. I am dead. xxx
Barbara
So an elementary question is, how is his name pronounced? Is it “chasten” like the normal English word, with long “a” and leaving the “t” silent? (Cha-sen), or is it pronounced the way it looks like it should be, with a short “a” and a vocalized “t” (e.g., first syllable sounds like first syllable in “chastity”)? Or is it a combination — long a, with t, or short a and no t? I mean, what were Gen X parents thinking? Isn’t English already hard enough?
But seriously, does anyone know?
Barbara
Oh COME ON! Using a simple English word that isn’t a bad word at all shouldn’t get me into moderation!!!
TenguPhule
Speaking of unchastened….
germy
Lis Smith is working on Mayor Pete’s campaign.
Juju
@schrodingers_cat: I was just going to point out the same thing. I’d like to know more about Kamala Harris’s husband Doug.
germy
@TenguPhule:
From what I’ve read, his first marriage made things untenable for his family
The Lodger
Any tips on how to pronounce Chasten?
TenguPhule
Okay, now what?
The Moar You Know
@TenguPhule: Gotta be tough spending that much time on his knees at his age.
trollhattan
@Barbara:
You know what you did. :-P
trollhattan
@The Lodger:
Hasten with a Q?
trollhattan
@TenguPhule:
Which of his families is he referencing there?
The Moar You Know
@germy: I wasn’t going to vote for the bothsiderist asshole anyway, but there’s a REALLY good reason not to now. Either he’s not vetting his hires at all or he approves of the company she keeps.
VeniceRiley
@Juju: All I know is he’s an entertainment industry lawyer, and he seems nice on twitter.
trollhattan
Confess I’ve completely fallen under AOC’s spell. Kickin’ butt and takin’ names. And to further mix the metaphor, she’s all out of gum.
TenguPhule
@Barbara: Chase-en
The t is silent.
TenguPhule
@trollhattan: I assume all of them, Katie.
Barbara
@The Moar You Know: Why do we hate Lis Smith? I did try to find out who she is, and I am still not enlightened.
TenguPhule
@Barbara:
You must be new to WordPress.
Barbara
@TenguPhule: From an English word choice perspective, it’s a strange thing to name your kid, but maybe there is a family connection.
Betty Cracker
@The Lodger: His Twitter bio offers “Chaz-ten.” Poor guy has to issue guidance on first and last names!
Betty Cracker
@TenguPhule: Not according to the man himself. See #24.
Brachiator
Buttigieg and spouse is definitely the flavor of the month.
Cacti
@The Moar You Know:
Everything he does seems pretty carefully calculated (recent anti-vax friendly stance notwithstanding). I think the odds he doesn’t know what circles she runs in are statistically and actually zero.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker: Ye gods, Its the Hogfather all over again.
trollhattan
Ha-ha-ha-ha!
Political Wire 11:45 a.m.
Political Wire 12:40 p.m.
Tide comes in, tide goes out. You can’t explain that.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat:
I’ll choose to ignore how a media organization might find something novel and newsworthy about this spouse, and focus on how it’s not actually a special piece. Considering this is the style section, I think the following have the same level of gravitas:
– Here’s The Hill with a profile on each of them.
– Here’s Oprah magazine: 6 Things to Know About Senator Kamala Harris’ Husband, Douglas Emhoff
– Marie Claire on Mr. Warren
And many others, I’m sure.
ETA Newsweek on Jill Biden https://www.newsweek.com/jill-biden-joe-2020-announcement-democratic-primary-1405768
chopper
@schrodingers_cat:
not a spouse, but booker’s relationship with rosario dawson has gotten some ‘lifestyle’ coverage.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Some call him “Tim.”
TenguPhule
@trollhattan:
Moore goes in, refuses to pull out.
schrodingers_cat
It is no accident that no female candidate is getting this type of gushing coverage.
TenguPhule
First time I’ve felt sorry for god.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Has NYT or Washington Post done this type of a puff piece on another candidate spouse yet?
Cacti
Millennials and their ridiculous names.
schrodingers_cat
@trollhattan:
Gravity.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t know, I’m at work and don’t feel like doing more than a cursory search. I also don’t think the style section of the NYT or WaPo merits any more consideration than the publications I listed above.
Are any of the other candidates’ spouses gay?
rikyrah
Dan Diamond (@ddiamond) Tweeted:
JUST NOW: Trump says his admin finalized new conscience protections for “physicians, pharmacists, nurses, teachers, students and faith-based charities.”
“They’ve been wanting to do that for a long time — right, Mike?” Trump adds in aside to Pence. https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1123979987248398341?s=17
tybee
@schrodingers_cat:
magnets
trollhattan
@schrodingers_cat:
Nope, comedy.
schrodingers_cat
@tybee: Quantum mechanics
germy
@schrodingers_cat:
Bill O’Reilly a few years ago, debating an atheist who claims religion is a scam. Bill’s point is that nature is too mysterious for there NOT to be a God:
Barbara
@rikyrah: Waiting for their chance to torture and shame women with impunity, you bet they have. Trump shames women in a very specific way and then he makes sure to enable Pence for yet a different kind of shaming. But it’s shame and control all the way down when it comes to women. On that they are all agreed.
trollhattan
@rikyrah:
What in the absolute name of fvck is that about? If Pence is behind it the devil is involved.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah: And then this happened.
Kent
@schrodingers_cat:
I have a 16 year old LGBT daughter who is highly political. She is unimpressed with Mayor Pete and following Kamala Harris. Apparently another middle-aged white gay guy isn’t all that interesting to today’s youth. And yes, if you are 16 then late 30s is “middle aged”
We are rapidly approaching the point where being gay is a curiosity, like being Jewish in a non-Jewish area. But not much more than that. I remember almost a generation ago, all the fawning coverage about Lieberman and his Judaism. This feels the same as the curiosity about Lieberman’s conservative Judaism when he was on the ticket in 2000. I find it interesting that my daughter is unimpressed by Mayor Pete’s sexuality and takes more notice that he’s yet another white male running for office in a sea of white males.
TenguPhule
There is no way this is gonna end well.
Cacti
@schrodingers_cat:
I remember how the media had their knives out for Hillary Clinton from the start, for being the first FLOTUS who had her own career.
And then they never stopped attacking for the next quarter century.
The Lodger
@Betty Cracker: Thanks, Betty.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: I remember that clip. I was playing it straight. I just can’t with the scientific illiteracy.
rikyrah
Trump approval rating on race relations via new @CNN poll:
White:
49% approve
45% disapprove
Non-white:
19% approve
75% disapprove
— Ryan Struyk (@ryanstruyk) May 2, 2019
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: So the most generous reading of the poll says that 49% of white people are comfortable with racists and will make excuses for them. What about the remaining 5%?
sukabi
@germy: so Smith and Greenwald in a tag team Hillary bashing enterprise.
Perhaps Pete should hire better people, or is this a glimpse into who and where he sees himself?
Definitely doesn’t improve his standings as far as I’m concerned.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
Margin of error. Or undecided.
rikyrah
@trollhattan:
I found that tweet inside of this tweet???
Charles Gaba ✡️ (@charles_gaba) Tweeted:
Congratulations, everyone who didn’t vote for Hillary in the general: Doctors will now be able to refuse to save your life based on their religious beliefs. Not quite as important as a wedding cake, I know. https://t.co/pTmhYEjoit https://twitter.com/charles_gaba/status/1123981272102182912?s=17
schrodingers_cat
@TenguPhule: That’s a pretty large margin of error.
schrodingers_cat
@sukabi: Baby BS wants be another WWC whisperer.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
Its political polling. Which is more of an art then a science.
khead
@rikyrah:
Only a matter of time before gay folks end up dead in the street from refusal of care. Again. Like refusing to bake a cake.
Edit – Missed the cake reference at comment #57 before posting.
schrodingers_cat
What @rikyrah: What does Mr. Religious Exemption for vaccines have to say?
Barbara
@TenguPhule: I am convinced that in 25 years there won’t be any churches. The hall of shame they are building around themselves is obvious to everyone except them, because they have no shame.
TenguPhule
Senate fails to override Trump’s veto of resolution demanding end to U.S. involvement in Yemen
Another debacle. Or as we now call it, Thursday.
schrodingers_cat
@Kent: Good for your daughter. The hype surrounding him is ridiculous. He is not all that.
TenguPhule
@Barbara: The Catholic Church is still here.
evodevo
@schrodingers_cat: See: O’Lielly, Bill
khead
@Barbara:
Don’t kid yourself. Churches are the last line of wingnut defense. See, also, TenguPhule.
TenguPhule
So like the ACA, Trump is trying to overturn Roe vs Wade by fiat.
Walker
@Barbara:
Mainlines are (slowly) growing again. But yes, Evangelicalism will take a serious hit now that it has been exposed as a cover for white supremacy.
Prometheus Shrugged
@Kent: Maybe for your daughter it’s the same thing that turns me off of Mayor Pete (relative to others, that is): his proclivity towards Whitesplaining. I will say that I found him to be much easier to take during his extended interview on “The Breakfast Club” where he probably knew he couldn’t get away with that tendency–he actually said all the right things (for me) in a more unassuming way.
So I wouldn’t mind him as VP with Harris (preferably) or Warren, if for no other reason than the debate with Pence would be epic.
evodevo
@schrodingers_cat: See: O’Reilly, Bill….
Amir Khalid
Oh for crap’s sake. Please to be putting down Style section. This serious matter. Obama said in 2008 that candidates’ families should be off limits. Unless a candidate’s spouse is actively involved in the campaign, or up to something politically/legally questionable, it’s best they be politely ignored. Chasten Buttigieg’s husband is the one doing the thing, and Chasten is getting collateral coverage. It’s flattering to Chasten, and that’s nice for him; but it says squat about the merits of Pete’s candidacy.
Betty Cracker
@Barbara: Did you hear about this poll?
I’ve gotta think the evangelicals’ hypocritical embrace of Trump will accelerate that sect’s decline. Good.
TenguPhule
Oh fuck.
Here comes the next shiny Democrats in disarray story for the media to play with.
Kent
@Prometheus Shrugged:
I honestly don’t think she has really listed to him much. I think it’s more that she find a middle-aged white gay guy to be unexceptional and uninteresting. For the same reason that she watches Japanese anime on YouTube and finds Modern Family and Will and Grace utterly boring.
Betty Cracker
@Amir Khalid: First, Chasten IS actively involved in the campaign, as the article makes clear. Second, this post wasn’t meant to express support or opposition to Pete Buttigieg’s candidacy. I thought it would be a lighthearted and fluffy open thread to serve as a counterpoint to the depressing thread downstairs, with a hopeful coda about what the reception of the Buttigiegs as a candidate and spouse says about the advance of gay rights in America. But I should have known better — the “B” word makes people lose their goddamned minds around here. I’d pull the thread down, but there’s already 70+ comments, so I’ll just leave y’all to it. Have fun!
Gin & Tonic
That Phish comment reminds me of a t-shirt I saw many years ago: “Jerry’s dead. Phish sucks. Get a job.”
Kent
@Betty Cracker:
Yes, it is actually happening. And very rapidly.
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/02/28/the-politicisation-of-white-evangelical-christianity-is-hurting-it
janesays
@Barbara: Per his own twitter profile, it’s pronounced chaz-ten.
germy
Major Major Major Major
@Kent: I’m glad that sixteen-year-olds are unimpressed by a person being openly gay! For many of us old enough to remember the Democrats’ milquetoast treatment of gay rights in 2004, not to mention world history up to that point, having an openly-gay person as a serious contender for the presidency is refreshing, even if he is (the horror) a white man.
@Betty Cracker: Right?
janesays
@TenguPhule: Now nothing, unfortunately. They could choose to hold him in contempt of Congress, but that doesn’t really mean anything unless DOJ decides to follow it up with a prosecution. Odds that Barr is going to sign off on his own department charging him with a crime? Less than zilch.
They could impeach him, but they’d face the same problem as they would with trying to impeach Trump – no chance of removal by the Senate. So he’d be impeached, but would still get to keep his job at the end of it, and a lot of people would think of it as a complete waste of time.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
As long as the Post is fair and gives equal time to all of my friends with benefits.
TenguPhule
Empty chair and a prop chicken: Barr skips Mueller hearing
rikyrah
@Prometheus Shrugged:
uh huh
uh huh
lips pursed.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: It is pretty depressing that a 37 year old mayor of a college town without many accomplishments in politics is feted by our media. While senators with extensive policy proposals continue to be ignored.
Brachiator
@Kent:
We may have to adjust this for the fact that she can’t vote in the presidential election. I hope she will still be as enthused when the midterms roll around.
Are they still teaching “new math” in schools? Also, isn’t Harris older than Mayor Pete?
NY Robbin
@TenguPhule:
Apparently the “white” is understood.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Since it’s an open thread, here’s a totally frivolous discussion.
So we have joined the ranks of Those Who Have Seen Endgame. Was it satisfying? Yes, it was satisfying. I was having a great time watching the lady next to me literally dance in her seat with delight at some scenes.
Non spoiler-y discussion. I saw an article that suggested one place to take a potty break would be during a “boring science-y scene” while they’re planning their next move. But I realized that was one of my favorite scenes in the movie. Why? Because although these are hugely expensive special-effect action films, the character stuff is some of the best part. I love seeing the relationships among the characters when they’re just hanging out. I love getting the feeling that they are people and co-workers, not just superhero comic book images.
(This is exactly the kind of stuff which made Marvel comics a grade above DC when I was a kid. And being an idiot kid, I hated that stuff and gravitated more for the straight up action of DC)
Along those lines, I absolutely love the relationship between young Charles and young Erik in those X-men prequels. And yes, I’m panting to see Dark Phoenix.
Have the Marvel movies been unusually good at this character stuff, and unusually trusting that their audience will put up with and enjoy it?
Icedfire
@Betty Cracker: Well Mizz Cracker, your point resonated with me for the same damn reason Pete’s candidacy does. I’m a white, gay, cishet male only a few years younger than the guy is himself and that he is legitimately a viable candidate for president is monumentally breathtaking to me. Those anecdotes he gives about wishing he could tell the 16-year-old version of himself that it gets better? Guess what, they’re really fucking impactful to the 33-year-old version of me as well. The visceral vitriol being launched at him from people here and elsewhere is jarring to me on a personal level, I must admit. Disagreeing with his statements and positions is one thing (and is something I find myself also experiencing as the campaign goes on, imagine that!), but the intensity of invective and seeming hatred that some people have for the man is entirely another and at times is challenging to separate from the kinds of homophobic hostility I’ve encountered and observed in my lifetime.
trollhattan
@Kent:
Tale of a second teen girl, mine is head over heels for the mayor because he’s made climate change personal, noting that unlike most of the candidates they’ll both be around to harvest the hell that is coming. She responds to that while also being aflutter about his gay card (but that’s not the reason for her support). Turns 18 in December.
Dad’s still working her on Liz, but we’ve got plenty of time to sort that out (“vote for a woman or I disown you!”). She wants no part of Wilmer, not even a little. Whew.
TenguPhule
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Provided you don’t think about the premise too hard, its a great action movie.
But plot wise, a mess. Deus ex Machina meets you can’t fight fate runs into new powers and inabilities as the plot demands.
– We know the Time stone can go back and revive people, JFC writers, we already saw this in Doctor Strange and Infinity War part 1! Stop making shit up for drama’s sake to contradict what’s already been established as possible! –
chopper
@Major Major Major Major:
i’m hoping that when this primary is over, people at least try to appreciate the historical nature of an openly gay person running for president.
rikyrah
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
I think so.
Having seen all of them, I am impressed with the character development for those that have had several movies.
I didn’t like Iron Man until about the third movie.
The difference in Thor is amazing..the darker the movies got.
Captain America too.
I’ve always liked the Ang Lee Hulk…I don’t care what anyone says…
I watched the early Avengers movie just last week…and, how they have grown as a team…
Brachiator
@Kent: This part of the Economist article is very good news:
Kent
@Brachiator:
At age 15 she was out going door-to-door with her friends last fall campaigning for Carolyn Long who was running against our local GOP hack Jaime Hererra Beutler, who was one of the GOP hacks who unfortunately wasn’t swept out of office in 2018. She drags me to political rallies in Portland and is an activist at her school. There is more to being engaged in politics than just voting.
Of course she knows Kamala Harris is older. That’s not the point. The point is that she’d rather see a progressive woman of color elected to the presidency than another white guy who happens to be gay.
jeffreyw
@schrodingers_cat:
I think they’re hoping that he will get the nom because they think he’ll be easy to beat so the trump gravy train continues – with the added bonus of heightened interest in the campaign leading to increased ad spending from every usual group with bonus spending from the bible thumpers..
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t hate Mayor Pete, and he and his husband seem like nice people, but he unfortunately seems to be willing to let himself be touted as the next Great White (Male) Hope of the Democratic Party, and it’s pissing quite a few Democrats off.
I think it’s much more likely that he’s going to parlay this political fame into a senate seat than the presidency, but we’ll have to wait and see. Indiana is very, very conservative and he hasn’t had a lot of success on the statewide level there.
Gelfling 545
@TenguPhule: Which we will put into a nice, safe cage.
Kent
@trollhattan:
My teen has no use for Wilmer either. No use at all. She doesn’t understand the point of him. As she put it to my brother recently: “The bars are full of grumpy old white men who are ‘saying what needs to be said’ You guys have had your chance. We need younger people who are actually going to do what needs to be done”
Pretty well sums up Wilmer in my book.
Humdog
@Icedfire: thanks for saying this. I am sorry that some of the attitudes here are hurtful to you. I see it and am chagrined.
Personally, I don’t trust anyone from Indiana! ; )
Doug R
Anyone who wants to jam to Beyoncé goes up on my list.
Sister Golden Bear
@khead: See also, the trans woman that paramedics let bleed out in the street.
I guarantee you that trans people will be among the first hurt by this. Denying trans people medical care is part of a literal five-point plan by the Talibaptists to eradicate us from public life.
schrodingers_cat
@jeffreyw: Agreed. How is your furry crew?
ETA: Homer kitteh for Purrsident!
tobie
@Amir Khalid: The article is on the front page of the Post’s website. It may be in the style section of the print edition but last I checked the article on Chasten was the most prominent one on the website.
I never heard of Lis Smith before Buttigieg’s candidacy. Does she have a history with the Democratic Party? A beef with Hillary? Who are the Hillary thugs going after Buttigieg? I don’t like this ‘woe is me, i’m being attacked by the establishment line’ one bit.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat:
It would appear that Warren was mentioned almost twice as much as Pete on teevee last week. Harris also came out above him but not by as much.
Brachiator
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Yep. One thing that I had not really considered was brought home while listening to the podcast of the BBC Kermode and Mayo film review show. Simon Mayo read a few letters from fans who first started watching the Marvel movies when they were age 10 or 13. They grew up with these films and with the characters in them. And so they were especially tuned to the character moments, and how the relationship between, for example Tony Stark and Captain America changed over the years. And it was impactful for them that these films became a saga with an ending, and not just a discrete series of films.
Some people who were long time comics fans felt similar, but they had a greater sense of how the movies replicated or expanded on what they had been reading for years.
Of course, these sentiments are similar to what you might hear from Harry Potter or Star Wars fans, but that Marvel has done this with 22 films over 10 plus years is amazing.
rikyrah
@Sister Golden Bear:
I know that you are absolutely on point. And, are telling the absolute truth.
rikyrah
@Brachiator:
It is amazing. The threads through the movies……it has been impressive to watch. Iron Man came out 11 years ago. Over different characters..with different directors…they were still able to weave this universe…
schrodingers_cat
@tobie: Baby BS has learned well from the original.
Gin & Tonic
@Icedfire: As an old straight white guy my antennae aren’t as attuned to homophobia as yours must be, but that’s a real stretch here. I don’t want to speak for anybody else, but I see people being somewhat resentful that Buttigieg is the media-darling flavor of the month when there are far more accomplished women, with far more substantive policy proposals being given short shrift. Perhaps your antennae, as attuned as they are to homophobia, aren’t picking up on the misogyny. Just a thought.
Sister Golden Bear
@rikyrah: Thank you. I’d really love to talk about other things, but the avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Brachiator
@Sister Golden Bear:
Yes. And Trump is all about hurting people he doesn’t like.
This phony “protection of religious beliefs” stuff is designed to use anti-abortion policy as a cover for wider discrimination against trans people. From a Politico article:
VeniceRiley
@Icedfire:
I don’t think you mean the “het” as that part stands for heterosexual. *wink
As a white lesbian cis female, I find Mayo Pete to be far too “Log Cabin Republican” for my taste, though I am fine with him running.
I’m insisting on female leadership for this current cycle, and the best candidates for me are 1) Harris and 2) Warren
Served
Pete doesn’t crack my Top 3 (or 5 for that matter), but the level of and intensity of disdain for Mayor Pete here is very disconcerting this early in the campaign and in such a short timespan. Get a grip, people. You sound like the Bernistas you are railing against all the time
Kent
@Gin & Tonic:
I think we can be happy that multiple milestones are being crossed in this election. It’s not a zero-sum game. Well, actually it is in the end, but we have a wealth of good talent to take on the orange monster. The gay > women or women of color > white women, or whatever thing serves no purpose.
Bex
@Betty Cracker: Get ready for more discontent. Pete and Chasten are on the cover of Time with the caption, “First Family.”
Major Major Major Major
@Kent:
Not for people who are interested in democrats working together, at least.
Amir Khalid
@Betty Cracker:
I guess I’m far enough from the rough and tumble of it that I may be less patient than I should with the urge to seek light relief once in a while.
But if Chasten is actively involved in the campaign, then cover his involvement. I for one would not need to be reassured that the Buttigiegs are regular people, because I tend to assume that political candidates are such unless something indicates otherwise.
tobie
I never heard of Lis Smith until recently so just looked her up. This is the bio for her on balletopedia:
I gather the last big campaign she worked on was Bill de Blasio’s. That might explain her familiarity with the New York media-verse. She’s certainly been effective in getting press coverage for the campaign. I’m surprised she used the language of “hillary’s thugs.” I find that distasteful. Hillary’s not running and has not commented on the primary.
schrodingers_cat
@Bex: I am looking forward to an in-depth hard hitting article about their two rescue dogs. Sunday NYT, I am depending on you.
Millard Filmore
This is not quite the type of leak that Adam talks about … “BREAKING (CNN): Former DNI Clapper Says Trump Campaign “Aided and Abetted” Russians”. Now that Mueller’s activity is wrapped up things will get interesting. Clapper can put his inside interpretation on publicly known facts.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1124011241108910081
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212066168 (for some lightweight commentary)
Sister Golden Bear
@Brachiator: Speaking of which… It’s from almost two months ago, but yeah….
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2019/03/senate-confirms-dangerous-religious-extremist-allison-rushing-as-federal-judge/
Icedfire
@Gin & Tonic: Thank you for your thought, though I find it rather dismissive.
Your point about women being given short shrift in regards to their accomplishments and proposals is pretty much exactly the same thing I said the last time I commented on BJ (admittedly a couple of weeks ago, as I lurk far more than comment). I deliberately did not raise the point of misogyny alongside my comment; firstly because I only wanted to express my perception of similarity to homophobic behavior I’ve seen/experienced rather than actually accuse anyone of being homophobic, but just as importantly because I am aware of my inherent privilege as a cisgendered gay white man (as well as aware that I will always have more to learn from other marginalized groups) and that I do not have the right to attempt to equate or compare my experiences with homophobia towards others’ with transphobia, misogyny, racism, or other kinds of discrimination. Perhaps I should have tried to do so so as to avoid assumptions such as yours that I am oblivious to the rampant and inexcusable sexism already on display in the campaign, but I didn’t really see a way to do so that didn’t come across as white knighting or holier-than-thouing.
Tl;dr – Lurking is far easier than trying to figure out a way to express oneself in a way that avoids the omission = ignorance trap.
Icedfire
@VeniceRiley: Lol ah jeez. Autocorrect has apparently learned the wrong lessons from my posting history!
Brachiator
@rikyrah:
And of course in the old comics, Iron Man was a second or third tier hero. Marvel got lucky as hell when they got Robert Downey Jr to play the role. But then, they went from strength to strength. Chris Evans has turned out to be a very good actor and has infused Captain America with just the right degree of heroic majesty and simple humanity. And just as critically, Marvel brought in new characters, notably Black Panther and Captain Marvel, who have turned out to be as charismatic as the first Avengers.
And Marvel got super lucky again with Tom Holland’s Spider Man, when they were able to make a deal with Sony to include this character in the Marvel universe.
Chyron HR
@Sister Golden Bear:
Speaking for MTFs, I think we’re doing that pretty well on our own.
rikyrah
@Brachiator:
He might not like them, but, this is ALL PENCE.
ALL PENCE.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Has all the coverage been fluffy and softball, the kind the mayor gets?
trollhattan
@Chyron HR:
I larfed. :-)
rikyrah
@Brachiator:
I have to comment again about Thor. Chris Hemsworth was a pretty face in the first one,but, I didn’t see potential there for ‘depth’. I have been pleasantly surprised over the course of the films. Marvel lucked out that they found Downey and gave him this chance after he had bottomed out and was willing to get his shyt together. ICAM about Holland- cause, I totally thought Spider Man was played out. And, I thought that Captain America was a bit ‘ corny’, and he’s grown into one of my favorites.
Gin & Tonic
@Icedfire: I didn’t say you were oblivious. I said you were perhaps more attuned to one type of discriminatory behavior than to another, and – while I did say I wasn’t going to speak for others – I have read posts from some of the current Buttigieg critics for years now, and they appear fairly substantive *to me*. I like to think that a hetero white male who’s only 37 and whose only political experience is as the mayor of some dipshit little college town would come in for very similar criticism here if he were suddenly on the cover of Time..
But, you know, feel free to accuse me of whatever you like.
Monala
@tobie: The “Hilary’s thugs” comments was from a tweet in 2016. I assume it was said about Sanders.
germy
Barbara
@Icedfire: Some of us are angry that any white guy, the mayor of South Bend no less, gets taken more seriously as a presidential candidate than any woman for reasons that seem to have to do with whether the reporters would like to share a beer with him. Living in a county that had one of the first openly gay county board members in the nation clued me in to the fact that many, many gay people feel like you, and that alone would give the mayor a cushion of financial support most other candidates don’t have, and I am okay with that, but it gets so tiresome after a while to see a person get so much traction when many of his positions on issues make him sound more like a wavering Republican than a Democrat. It is breathtaking but I hope he doesn’t win for reasons having nothing to do with whether he is gay.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic:
Well, Beto is 46, but he’s not getting the same treatment Pete is from the commentariat here.
Icedfire
@Gin & Tonic: Your comment, especially the closing two lines, seemed to rather loudly imply that I was oblivious to the misogyny. I apologize for the tone of my reply if that was not your intent – I am admittedly a bit hypersensitive towards such implied judgments.
schrodingers_cat
@Gin & Tonic: The 8 language thing stuck in my craw, because that’s one thing immigrants are demonized for, speaking in a language other than English. But if someone who is like them does it, then it is something to be celebrated. If he spoke English with an accent would his multilingual capabilities be celebrated? I fucking doubt it.
The Moar You Know
@Major Major Major Major: Nor should they. Beto’s a 3-term congressman. Following 2 stints on the El Paso City Council including a year as mayor pro tem.
Their experience is not remotely equivalent.
different-church-lady
I’m going out on a very thin limb here… but am I the only one who gets a bad feeling that Mayor Pete is getting a lot of press attention because he’s their “pet gay candidate”?
I mean this in the sense that they’re being highly patronizing. If he were straight, the Mayor of South Bend would be getting press ridicule for having presidential aspirations. But his being gay makes for great “lifestyle” press, and they are using him for only that purpose. The moment things get serious it’s going to just turn on a dime and be all “Are REAL Americans ready for a gay president?” and “He’s not qualified” and etc, etc. It will go from fawning to disparaging in a heartbeat.
jl
In other hopeful candidate news, I was glad to see that BS went down quite a bit in the polls and Warren made a big jump up in the last 3 or 4. Sign that good policy with good understanding and good explanation score with a lot of progressives, not just personality. And if BS goes haywire if he loses, his influence will be reduced.
Not sure it’s a trend yet, but I hope it becomes one. Will provide encouragement in the right direction for other candidates I like who have been moving in progressive direction, particularly Harris.
rikyrah
@Gin & Tonic:
His claim to fame is Mayor of a college town.
Booker- ALSO a Rhodes Scholar was Mayor of a town twice his size AND is a Senator.
Castro -was Mayor of a town TEN TIMES the size of South Bend AND a former Cabinet Member
Do I need to get into the qualifications of the women that aren’t getting the press of him.
And, to be blunt…the whole ‘ we need to understand ‘ the Dolt45 voter thing doesn’t sit well with me. Period.
The whole Police Chief thing…uh uh. Uh uh. Nope.
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
Uh huh
Uh huh
Come sit by me.
Major Major Major Major
@The Moar You Know: you’re right; Pete has more directly relevant experience as an executive. //
ETA: (forgot sarcasm marks) More seriously, though, nothing I’ve seen about Beto’s history is particularly inspiring or qualifying.
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: You are not the only one. The press always fluffs up D candidates with the least chance to win the general election.
Icedfire
@Barbara: The phenomenon of Pete’s candidacy, if nothing else, is proving that as often as I have tried to assess and acknowledge my privilege in American society, I have almost always underestimated it. That a “straight-acting” gay white man can get treated so preferentially compared to eminently qualified and experienced women is something that until now I would not have expected to happen based on my own experiences. It shows that listening to and believing women who relate their experiences is absolutely critical for people like me, if we are to be part of the solution.
As much as I identify with Pete individually, I find myself growing more and more disenchanted with his positions. Warren and Harris are distancing themselves as my preferred candidates right now.
zhena gogolia
@Icedfire:
I think he’s a remarkably talented orator and is saying many things that resonate with me, and I don’t get the vitriol that’s directed at him either.
My first choice is Kamala, but I welcome anyone who is on our side. There are quibbles one could have with all of them, but you know, as Paul Henreid said, “welcome to the fight.” (except Sanders)
delk
The ‘puff pieces’ just might end up being the life line a suicidal teen may need. Not every kid has understanding parents.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: But in this case it’s worse than that: the press is being condescending towards a homosexual, but masking it in praise. The sole reason they are interested in him is the novelty.
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: There was a good piece in last week’s The Economist about that issue. And yeah, if his English were accented, that (exaggerated, IMO) multilingualism would certainly not be celebrated.
But who mentions that Harris is conversant in French, or Gillibrand in Mandarin?
zhena gogolia
@delk:
Right.
jl
@rikyrah: In addition to other factors you refer to, both Buttigieg and O’Rourke have been two most ‘fluid’ on what policies they support, and are tending centrist. And they are coy about why, rather than giving explanations. If I wanted a centrist, I’d prefer Kobuchar who is far firmer and steadier on policies that she does support.
The media wants to avoid mentioning policy, so I think that is part of reason O’Rourke and Buttigieg getting disproportionate attention.
And maybe why Kobuchar has dropped out of coverage. She isn’t fluid enough. Discussing policy is considered bad in big media circles, even if it is more centrist policy. A firm stand on any kind of policy is kind of a bummer for most of media.
Edit: And a candidate being overly solicitous of 2016 Trumpster vote is catnip to the media. Any of that vote that is gettable, should be gettable through good policy, not special and contentless driveling over them.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m sorry, but you really have some strange animus toward Buttigieg that I don’t get. When people here talk about candidates I’m not interested in, I just scroll on by. But you always have to jump in and say these really bitter things about him. Why??? Who cares what stories are done on him right now, since they’re not going to make a damn bit of difference to the outcome?
Brachiator
@jl:
I just want someone who will defeat Trump. Centrist or super-lefty doesn’t much matter.
jl
But I do agree it is good that looks like more people than expected don’t care much about Buttigieg’s personal business, which should remain personal as long as it is ethical and honest.
Suzanne
@Kent:
So the 2000 election was my first one. And I remember being really, REALLY disappointed with the Lieberman pick, and then hearing about how historic it was to have a Jewish candidate. And I was like, “Huh? Whut? It’s just another old white dude.” I felt completely uncalibrated, because, to me…..it was something so un-notable that it never dawned on me that it hadn’t happened before.
I am glad that Teh Kidz see being gay as a similar NBD. (Less thrilled that they consider Mayor Pete middle-aged, as I am only about a year and a half older than he is.)
Major Major Major Major
@delk:
I dunno, I heard he’s just another uninspiring white guy with no business being covered by the media in the first place.
jl
@Brachiator: I agree for the most part. I’m not firmly committed to Warren, but I have to prioritize and want to contribute to the candidate I think has both best chance of winning and would be best president, and I think does a whole lot of good in the primaries regardless of whether she wins or not.
We’ll see how things go, but for now, that is Warren IMHO, so I contribute to her campaign.
Immanentize
@Brachiator:
One might say, given some of his troubles, it was Robert Downey Jr. who got lucky as hell that Marvel picked him.
Sab
@rikyrah: I really like this whole vetting process, as long as we don’t chew each other up.
A couple of months ago I thought Kamala Harris was very bright but glib, and I didn’t like the prosecutor stuff.
Now I think the world of her. I still think she’s bright, but also savvy and experienced and as quick on her feet as anyone in the race. Plus she is funny and charming, with charisma on camera and obviously also in person. I also understand why she was a prosecutor. I think she has really good political instincts.
If we hadn’t hashed out the “problem areas” they would still be doubts gnawing at the back of my mind.
I still like Warren a bit better, but that’s partly loyalty since I have been rooting for her for at least 15 years.
Brachiator
@different-church-lady:
Could be. But I don’t much care. That is, I think it is early. Media stories don’t mean that much, except to annoy people if the stories are not about their favorite candidates.
Let’s see what happens when we get to the primaries.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I know the first D debate is next month. What’s the deadline for candidates to qualify? Is there a site that keeps track of how they’re doing? Bennett just declared. The field really needs some clearing out.
satby
@Gin & Tonic: homophobia is just another flavor of misogyny. Both revolve around humans not behaving in patriarchy sanctioned ways.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
Disagree. The reboot of Spiderman has been a epic fuckup to me. Just piss away the original serious characterization in favor of a goof. The great power, great responsibility was always Spiderman’s core appeal and it rubbed raw to see it pretty much completely absent *after* he’s already webslinging.
Kay
I like Mayor Pete too. I think we have a great mix of candidates – geography, background, ideological. I sort of like his whole 30,000 feet thing. I know he gets slammed for no specifics but I’m interested in his bigger view too so I have been reading what he says.
All we lack is a southerner :)
Kent
@Icedfire:
Well, there are a whole bunch of straight white guys with a LOT more experience who are getting absolutely no traction either.
John Delaney (3-term Congressman)
Jay Inslee (Governor with 24 years in politics)
John Hickenlooper (Denver Mayor and Governor)
Tim Ryan (15 years in Congress)
Eric Swalwell (3-term Congressman)
Mike Gravel (former Alaska Senator)
Seth Moulton (3-term Congressman)
Michael Bennett (2-term Senator)
Warren, Harris, and Klobochar are all getting more press than all of them combined.
It takes more than just a resume to run for President. At some point you actually have to get out and inspire people. I think both Warren and Harris are doing that well. I’m not sure about any of the above guys except maybe Inslee (my governor) based on his single-issue climate change campaign.
Brachiator
@Immanentize:
Worked out for everyone. And Marvel happily sends Downey trucks full of money.
Hildebrand
I am really having a very difficult time understanding the vitriol about Buttigieg. I could understand disregarding him – because it’s so early in the process, and there are so many candidates, just tune out the ones that don’t float your boat – but the weird level of antipathy is, well, weird.
I mean, ok, he is young and his list of accomplishments isn’t long, but beyond a bit of centrism, I just don’t get why he is the villain. I really don’t get why being a polyglot is something to be held against him. Don’t we want white guys to understand and participate in the broader world?
Finally, so what if he is the shiny object for the press? The quality candidates will rise over the long haul – they always do (well, unless you are a republican circa 2016), that is why the long campaign is a good thing. The pretenders will be revealed without us having to vilify them.
NotMax
“Shall hold off judgment until his cookie recipe shows up in Parade.”
– Typical low-info voter
//
Brachiator
@TenguPhule:
Well, you’re just wrong. :)
Actually, I see your point. However, Spiderman has also always been a wise-cracking superhero. And he is elastic enough to hit broader movie audiences in different ways.
And I greatly enjoyed the multiple Peter Parkers and multiple Spidey people in the animated Spidey film. In one of the Peter Parkers, you got an sense that the “great power” thing had become a crushing burden.
Also, I find it fascinating that these characters have been around for so long that changing audience expectations are forcing a shift in how these characters are seen. A chunk of people who are Star Wars fans practically insist that Jedis must represent a democratic vision of the universe. Everyone can be a Jedi, not just a Skywalker. I recently listened to some SF fans insist on this for Marvel and other characters as well. They militantly reject anything that reeks of a “chosen one.” And they embrace the idea that anyone can be Spiderman. Being able to get the power becomes more important than dealing with the burden of having great power and using it well.
TenguPhule
@Hildebrand: Yeah, the real vitrol should be saved for Tulsi.
Hildebrand
@TenguPhule: I’m with you on that! She can piss right off.
Kent
@NotMax: OK, you win the thread today.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
Yeah, but the wisecracks were always his bravado and a quick quip, they weren’t literally every single line during a fight. I think they focused too much on the easy to see things and didn’t look deeper. For all their faults, the prior Spiderman movies at least were paying attention to what made him a hero.
Yeah and they’re just wrong. It was never the power that made them great, it was their moral characteristics that made them larger then life.
The Moar You Know
@Hildebrand: I can’t speak for anyone else here but for me, the problem I have with Mayor Pete is the problem I have with almost everyone running right now, with the exception of Inslee and Biden: no amount of experience at the state or federal level as an executive. It always matters, and since it looks like we’ll be dealing with a GOP-led Senate (thanks to the Dem party’s absolute and utter failure to put money or attention towards anything not the presidency) it’s going to matter a lot more.
I would prefer Inslee but that’s obviously not happening. Biden…I’m grinding my teeth about that but he has the experience and the polling.
JR
@schrodingers_cat: They generally have a say in this. Many spouses, I would imagine, do not care to be profiled.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Gin & Tonic: Yeah I’m totally cool with him being gay, but if he really is a fan of Phish…I don’t know, that takes him down a peg IMO.
Barbara
@Icedfire:
On this you and I agree. I signed up to give monthly donations to both Harris and Warren.
Leto
@Hildebrand: Certain people just want to shit on him every chance they can get. Doesn’t matter the thread topic, doesn’t matter the reason. Bring up his name for any reason, a certain contingent will rain down the shit. Basically a reverse Wilmer.
Marla Olsen
@Chyron HR: Well, true. Although I doubt she’s aware of that.
OTOH, it’s been pointed out that “moral objections to any service that results in sterilization” opens the door for denial of a number of trans-related services — including hormone therapy.
Sister Golden Bear
@Chyron HR: Well, true. Although I doubt she’s aware of that.
OTOH, it’s been pointed out that “moral objections to any service that results in sterilization” opens the door for denial of a number of trans-related services — including hormone therapy.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@TenguPhule: I’m mostly OK with the reboot. What bugs me most is Aunt May. I love Marisa Tomei, but she’s nobody’s sweet old Auntie.
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
Pet peeve: It’s Michael Bennet, one t, like Elizabeth in Pride and Prejudice.
I knew his dad and want to keep that straight.
Bex
@schrodingers_cat: When I post it just don’t read it. Easy.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: Isn’t Texas part of the South? That gives us both Castro and O’Rourke.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus:
That statement is *really* offensive to actual southerners, Southern Living be damned.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Hey, the UP is considered a part of the Upper Midwest no matter what the rest of us want.
PST
@Hildebrand:
Me too. It just makes me Pete-curious. If there is one thing Hillary hatred taught me, it is to be suspicious of repetition of points that seem trivial or misleading. (Benghazi!) In particular, I lose respect for anyone who treats Buttigieg as next Jenny McCarthy because of a clumsy response to a vaccination question, quickly clarified. And citing the 2016 Lis Smith “thug” quote in the context of the current campaign without pointing out the date is guaranteed to sow confusion. Most of us don’t check out tweet dates. I assumed it was contemporaneous and I’ll bet others did too. When I caught on I thought “fool me once …” and resolved to scrutinize other posts from the same source more carefully.
Omnes Omnibus
@PST: The people who don’t like him really don’t like him.
FWIW the Trump years have been tough on everyone with a sense of decency, but I do think that some people have had a tougher time with it than others. Senses of humor and faith in their fellow citizens seem frayed to near the breaking point.
jc
Sorry, I feel so petty, but is Pete’s husband’s name Chasten Buttigieg? As in the hetero tradition where the wife adopts the husband’s last name? I’m all in favor of gay marriage, buy why not just both parties keep their own last name?
J R in WV
@satby:
Well put, absolutely true.
Thanks!
Dan B
@Betty Cracker: Thanks Betty. Pete’s not my first choice but ot seemed great to have an openly gay candidate long before I thought it would happen. It seems to me that some Wilmer fans and bots worked with the idea that Pete is white and demoted a black police chief into a fill on racist persona. All the other white male democratic candidates get a pass, with the exception of Biden for Anita Hill. Why is that? Is Mayor Pete a big threat to Wilmer or Kamala? He seems more like a threat to the former than the latter.
Anyway it hurts to read the angry comments here but I believe they will calm down when he’s maxed out.
dww44
I know this is a dead thread, but wanted to let Betty know that there’s another reason today to be a Proud Democrat. Michael Bennett’s interview on the RMS tonight was a good one. He has good and different ideas about how to get the country back to a place where actual policies can be passed and implemented. He also has in interesting backstory and family. At the very end, I had the same thought as Betty does in this post, I’m proud to be a Democrat. Our candidates are far superior in breadth and depth to what the GOP has had on offer for many a year.
We have to prevail in 2020 and may God grant perseverance and skill and determination to our Congressional Dems as they chart a path to return our democracy to a fully functional one and free us from this authoritarian President.