Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

So many bastards, so little time.

Elections aren’t won by handwringing, cowering, and/or bashing your own candidates.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

I was promised a recession.

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

We’re not going back!

We still have time to mess this up!

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

People are weird.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

American History and Black History can not be separated.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Donald Trump is a Shite Businessman

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162Comments

  2. 2.

    Jeffro

    Let’s have those tax returns. And we will, eventually. And while we’re waiting/fighting/etc for them, a slow but steady trickle of American citizens starts to realize that this is not the behavior of a “FULLY EXONERATED!!!” person.

    Anyway…

    In all honesty, I thought the next post up would be something along the lines of, “We Need To Talk About Mitch, America”. And we do. We need to make him the most reviled public figure in American life (and with trumpov still around, that’s a tall order). But it must happen – the Dems, the DNC, all of us, we need to just go scorched-earth on this most un-American of American politicians.

  3. 3.

    Ithink

    Yeah, they just announced this as breaking news on Hardball; it’s pretty much more or less as damning an indictment of Trump’s character and financial criminality/aloofness as one can imagine but it’s not gonna change any minds that either hated or loved the administration as it has been this far. Does give Dems all the more reason to continue demanding the release of the more recent and likely explosively revealing returns of the last decade or more.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    LOL

    From 1986 through 1988, while his core businesses languished under increasingly unsupportable debt, Mr. Trump made millions of dollars in the stock market by suggesting that he was about to take over companies. But the figures show that he lost most, if not all, of those gains after investors stopped taking his takeover talk seriously.

    I still don’t trust the NYT, but I’m glad their access to sources paid off for once.

  5. 5.

    eemom

    I believe the proper WV spelling is thig’n. As in “Lemme tell ya a couple thig’ns, young ‘un.”

  9. 9.

    PsiFighter37

    @Baud: Too shitty to be a greenmailer. And Carl Icahn takes this manbaby seriously. Ahahahaha

  10. 10.

    West of the Rockies

    @Jeffro:

    Well said, sir. McConnell is–what hasn’t been said before?–a greedy, frightened creature. His interests are consolidating power and wealth, not in improving life for anyone, anywhere except for his fellow piglets.

  13. 13.

    TenguPhule

    @West of the Rockies:

    McConnell is–what hasn’t been said before?–a greedy, frightened creature.

    He’s not frightened. But if anyone deserves to live in fear of their life, he is.

  14. 14.

    Duane

    @Jeffro: McTurtle doesn’t enjoy all the special protection the crook Trump apparently does. Turn McConnell into another corrupt political poster child. Fuckem.

  15. 15.

    chopper

    drumpf is gonna lose his shit on twitter over this. i mean, even more than before.

  16. 16.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    That was a prime time for M&As. He just had to be in the same league as the big guys. //

  17. 17.

    Felanius Kootea

    Now they tell us.

    I wish someone would hack into the Breitbart and Daily Caller sites and post this article there because that’s the only way right wingers get to read this.

  21. 21.

    TenguPhule

    File under Leopards eating faces.

    “My warning has been: We don’t want the 2020 election year to become greatly intensified friction with China over trade issues. We want a deal that works,” said Michael Pillsbury, a China expert at the Hudson Institute who has advised the Trump administration on trade. “One way to unite all 21 Democratic primary candidates is if the president gets a quick but flawed deal that inevitably leads to friction when China is caught cheating next year.”

    However, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow are among a group of Trump aides who have encouraged the president to reach a deal with China quickly and avoid political blowback from a full-scale trade war in 2020, according to people familiar with the internal debate.

    White House officials said Trump is prepared to take a hard line with China going into 2020 in part because he intends to keep his 2016 campaign promise to fix what he views as bad trade deals. Trump believes strongly in the power of tariffs to force China and other countries to negotiate and won’t sign a deal for political expediency, said two officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal strategy.

  23. 23.

    Redshift

    I’m with The Rude Pundit on this:

    Every fucking day, every opportunity they have, every interview, every speech, Democrats should be demanding that Donald Trump release his taxes. They should be saying that he must have something to hide. It should be the only fucking thing that anyone can think of. They should get people to show up at Republican town halls to ask why the GOP doesn’t care about Trump’s taxes.

    The narrative to hammer on is “What are they trying so hard to hide? They’re not acting like people who believe they’re innocent!”

  24. 24.

    debbie

    I don’t know how they got his returns, but this is fun:

    In fact, year after year, Mr. Trump appears to have lost more money than nearly any other individual American taxpayer, The Times found when it compared his results with detailed information the I.R.S. compiles on an annual sampling of high-income earners. His core business losses in 1990 and 1991 — more than $250 million each year — were more than double those of the nearest taxpayers in the I.R.S. information for those years.

    Over all, Mr. Trump lost so much money that he was able to avoid paying income taxes for eight of the 10 years. It is not known whether the I.R.S. later required changes after audits.

  25. 25.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Sebastian: But he’s still the President and is doing all he can to destroy this country. It’s going to take awhile to right the ship after he debarks. The next Democratic President and Senate is going to have to stack the courts to counter Trump’s packing them up with rightwing extremists.

  26. 26.

    Jeffro

    @Duane:

    Turn McConnell into another corrupt political poster child. Fuckem.

    How about a poster with his (two)face and a list…

    “WHEN A DEMOCRAT IS PRESIDENT…I’m fine with a hostile foreign power attacking our democracy…I’m actually more than fine, I’m a-ok with keeping quiet about it and telling that Dem not to go public”

    “WHEN A REPUBLICAN IS PRESIDENT…I’m fine with pretending that the attack should have been stopped by the Dem…that I told not to go public about it”

    You get the idea. Mobilize our base, point out the hypocrisy, make him pay for it. He is literally the one person standing between trumpov and accountability.

    And on that note…

  27. 27.

    Sebastian

    The more I think about it the more hilarious this is. We all know Donnie was losing money and he was also exaggerating his losses to steal tax money but this puts him in a bind because he can’t possibly use the excuse “I was committing tax fraud! I was way more successful than it says in my taxes!” Well, maybe he can but it’s a very stupid defense. Anyhoo, he is according to the Times:

    In fact, year after year, Mr. Trump appears to have lost more money than nearly any other individual American taxpayer, The Times found when it compared his results with detailed information the I.R.S. compiles on an annual sampling of high-income earners. His core business losses in 1990 and 1991 — more than $250 million each year — were more than double those of the nearest taxpayers in the I.R.S. information for those years.

    Hahaha THE BIGGEST LOSER IN AMERICA!

    We should start photoshopping his mug into pictures of The Biggest Loser weight loss show.

  29. 29.

    Jeffro

    @Jeffro: …we really need to help our poor, pitiful, both-sides media…as well as most Dems, our MOCs at least…reframe how they view a trumpov impeachment.

    Ever since people first floated it, the refrain has been, “They’ll never vote to convict him in the Senate, they don’t have the votes.”

    The obvious response should have been sheer, 225% outrage: “THEY. DON’T. HAVE. THE. VOTES?!?!?!? For all of THIS??? Paying off porn star mistresses out of shell corporations just before the election…using his foundation as a piggy bank…EPIC tax fraud and likely money laundering as well? How about pretending that an attack on our country by a hostile foreign power didn’t occur, ’cause it benefitted him? Think THAT’s ok?”

    And always, always, always reframe it as, “if the Dems had done 1/10 of what don the con did, you’d be ballistic and rightly so. Do the right thing.”

    They’ll never change their minds if we don’t pound them with the truth of this whole cluster. They’ll never step up to do the right thing if we just punt and say “oh well, you know those crazy Republicans, always stepping in to defend their leader, right or wrong. I mean, what can you do, right?”

    F-that. Make them own it. It goes hand in glove with making McConnell the poster boy for un-American trumpov/Russia enabling. Make them all own it. Don’t ever let up letting them know what they ‘bought’ by their weak-ass tacit support for this corrupt scumbag.

  31. 31.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro:

    Mobilize our base, point out the hypocrisy, make him pay for it.

    In Kentucky? What, all three of them?

  37. 37.

    chopper

    @Sebastian:

    all i know is, drumpf’s biggest weakness seems
    to be his appearance as a wealthy smart businessdouche. this story really cuts him to the quick. to me it’s old news but either way i’m smiling ear to ear.

  38. 38.

    Princess

    I don’t see hordes of Trump supporters abandoning him in droves to vote Dem because of this (obviously). But there are a lot of people who voted for him because they genuinely thought a sharp businessman was what he was, and not just a character he played on TV. If those people are also feeling the pinch because of the tariffs, or have seen their taxes go up, some small percentage of them may just stay at home in 2020. And that’s all we need.

  44. 44.

    NotMax

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Thigh on goodness, thigh.

    Also too (pace A Little Romance), “The legend says that when two lovers kiss at sunset beneath the Bridge of Thighs….”

    :)

  46. 46.

    Jeffro

    @Jeffro: Here’s an example of that kind of crazy-thinking, from Josh Marshall over at TPM:

    I was just reading this Jonathan Bernstein column (he’s a no on impeachment). I didn’t find all of it convincing, but he makes the key point that if the House votes to impeach, the process moves to the Senate. And that means McConnell will be in control. And then the question becomes which route will McConnell go: refuse to hold a trial at all or simply hold a show trial? The idea that he’d conscientiously preside over a trial of his party’s president is a joke. It would just be an opportunity for him to wrest back the narrative.

    Really?!? The Turtle is going to make the case…to a country that already knows, 65-35%, that this clown is an all-day every-day liar? MAKE MITCH REFUSE TO HOLD A TRIAL AT ALL. Make him sabotage the proceedings. Pile it on! Barr’s already obviously in the tank, and Mnuchin just went in, too. McGahn can’t testify (maybe)…the WH is withholding all docs from all House committees about EVERYTHING. Make. Them. Own. It.

    I don’t care if Mitch “conscientiously presides” – I already know he won’t. I want him to do it in public every day from now until November 2020.

  47. 47.

    PaulWartenberg

    This is where the Republicans failed to run a simple goddamn credit check on their candidates back in 2015. The city/county guys working your neighborhood trash pickups are better vetted than trump’s been.

    JESUS. This is why seeing a candidate’s tax returns matters.

  50. 50.

    Jeffro

    @TenguPhule: No, TP – I’m not trying to rally the troops and oust McConnell in KY in a landslide, that ain’t going to happen.

    But pound the crap out of him nationally for the evil, hypocritical, treasonous, lying slug that he is. Rally our side and make sure that everyone knows what he is enabling, that it’s HIM that’s enabling it.

    “We could hold trumpov accountable for the most basic of things…but for some reason, the Majority Leader is siding with the Russians against our country and a full accounting of what happened in 2016. He’s just as much a threat to our national security as trumpov is, perhaps even more so – he has the power to stop it.” – every Dem.

  51. 51.

    Another Scott

    @debbie: The qualification of “individual taxpayers” is a tell that it’s not really what they want us to think. Donnie has (as I understand it) his businesses set up so that the corporate structure uses individual-like rules. There were many, many more corporations that lost much more money in those days than Donnie did.

    The scandal isn’t that he lost money and didn’t pay taxes for subsequent years. The scandal is that (supposedly) he had his accountants keep several sets of books so that it appeared he lost money when talking to the IRS (so he didn’t have to pay taxes) but when he talked to the banksters and the public was so successful and had so much wealth and income that they were willing to throw good money after bad to keep him afloat.

    tl;dr – it’s the cheating and the lying and mail fraud and the corruption.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  55. 55.

    Jeffro

    @NotMax: Even better. Roberts is at least somewhat concerned with law and the Court’s role as a 3rd branch and etc etc etc. I’d rather put it to him than the Turtle. Make him step up and make a decision too – why not? For far too long, no one and no power has been making the GOP officials who could stop this disaster actually, publicly, make their choice: your country or your party. Better yet: your country…or this guy, the one who’s crashing stock markets and inciting violence all over the place.

    Decide, GOP Senators. Go on the record in a big, big way. Decide, Chief Justice Roberts. But they never will unless we make them. Until then, it’s all just blather like “well, yes, the president* is prone to speaking before he thinks, yuk yuk yuk…”

  58. 58.

    Sebastian

    Holy shit, that article is brutal.

    “The real estate business — we’re in an absolute depression,” Mr. Trump told the lawmakers, adding: “I see no sign of any kind of upturn at all. There is no incentive to invest. Everyone is doing badly, everyone.”

    Everyone, perhaps, except his father, Fred Trump.

    While Donald Trump reported hundreds of millions of dollars in losses for 1990 and 1991, Fred Trump’s returns showed a positive income of $53.9 million, with only one major loss: $15 million invested in his son’s latest apartment project.

    But then I have to read THIS:

    Maggie Haberman contributed reporting.

    WTF

  60. 60.

    debbie

    @Another Scott:

    As I recall, the one year’s return he did release showed a $900 million loss, even as he paid himself a salary of $50 million. I don’t care if it’s individual or corporate, he is fucking cheating.

  61. 61.

    J R in WV

    Watching Rachael Maddow covering all this breaking news. She’s so happy to hear about the NYTimes scoop, she can’t not smile and grin. Pretty nice to see…

  63. 63.

    Raven

    @Immanentize: It actually drew quite a little crowd. I had to ask some swimmers to get the fuck out of the way because I didn’t know that it wasn’t an angry ray. If fought like and and kept making runs to deep water. There is little more exhilarating than a fish taking line through the drag. You are in fear that it will snap of the fish will throw the hook and, when you get it landed, there’s nothing better. I got a bunch of pics and got her back the water quickly. It took some doing to get her revived but after a minute of pushing her back and forth she headed back out to sea.

  65. 65.

    Jay

    “Hapless pro-Trump operative Jacob Wohl appears to have staged a fake protest against himself, only to have it become immediately apparent that he was behind it.

    Wohl and his ally, Republican lobbyist Jack Burkman, have been planning to hold a press conference Wednesday at Burkman’s Northern Virginia house to push a baseless sexual assault smear against Democratic presidential hopeful Pete Buttigieg. But on Monday, Burkman tweeted a link to an Eventbrite event page called the “Protest Against Homophobic Bigots” which he claimed was being used to organize a protest against his press conference with Wohl.”

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/jacob-wohl-tried-to-create-a-fake-counter-protest-to-his-own-press-conference

  66. 66.

    Immanentize

    @Raven: you thought she was a ray? That is a fight.

    I’m a little surprised you didn’t make a feast of that beauty.

  67. 67.

    raven

    @debbie: The fish? Oh no, it was way over the slot limit. It’s what is called a “Bull Red” and they are for fightin not eatin. That said I kept one bigger about 9 years ago. When I took it to the bait shop to weight it they said “bub, that is $1000 fine and all of your gear if they catch you with it”. That was the one that I kept the head and skelatonized it with a colony of flesh eating beetles! It’s on the mantle so if there was any question that my wife is a saint!

  68. 68.

    khead

    Sorry, but I’m gonna be a Debbie Downer. No one to the right of the Balloon Juice jackals cares about this sort of thign (had to keep it going) at this point.

  69. 69.

    raven

    @Immanentize: I was shootin the shit with a guy down from me and we both saw the rod just “POP” and come out of the holder. A ray will fight like mad and there’s no way to tell until it gets close. I wade out about 50 yards and then throw another 50 so it’s quite a way out there.

  70. 70.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Everyone is taking the tax returns at face value, but what if Trump was lying about those losses? Seems possible to me.

    Although if those losses are real and he was bs-ing his way through, it’s the same kind of thing he’s doing now with North Korea.

  73. 73.

    japa21

    People keep saying that Derms have to hammer on Trump et al about what do they have to hide. Would like to see it phrased slightly differently. “What are they afraid of being found?” Hit their “manhood” and paint them as cowards, over and over and over.

  74. 74.

    Immanentize

    @raven: Rays don’t quit. And why should they? Sharks can be like that. Surprised you got so much argument from a Red fish

  75. 75.

    Kattails

    The photos accompanying the article are nicely chosen to underscore the unmitigated arrogance of this piece of human excrement. Definitely worth using up one of my freebies.

  79. 79.

    khead

    @raven:

    I thought about dropping some fresh cat pics. Still might because that would be better than watching the Sixers get stomped. Also, that’s one hell of a fish.

  80. 80.

    TS (the original)

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Everyone is taking the tax returns at face value, but what if Trump was lying about those losses?

    Presumably if he lied, he can be indicted for defrauding the IRS. Tax evasion, tax fraud – seems to be the way to catch the criminals.

  82. 82.

    Adam L Silverman

    I have three words for every serious Democratic candidate for president: civil asset forfeiture.

    As in: “When I’m elected president, we will recoup all of the money that the President and his family and his businesses and his utterly corrupt cabinet secretaries and appointees have stolen from the American people through civil asset forfeiture. We will seize all of it and everything and they can sue to get it back. The American people, look forward to document production in discovery.”

  83. 83.

    RAVEN

    @Immanentize: Oh these baby’s are strong as hell. It made at least four runs before I was able to use the surf to pull it in and net it. They are bruisers.

  85. 85.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud: Notice this is the same game he now plays when he trashes both individual companies or threatens new tariffs via his twitter account? The question that needs to be asked is what stocks are he and his family and other insiders trading ahead of him doing this?

  86. 86.

    Immanentize

    @khead:

    Sixers get stomped.

    Is the Pope Catholic?
    Do bears shit in the woods?
    (My Dad’s) Does Raquel Welch sleep on her back?

  87. 87.

    Sebastian

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    He seems to have a pattern where he discovers a tool, method, or loophole and then ramps up the abuse. It doesn’t seem far fetched that he was gaming his returns to minimize tax exposure. I remember reports a long while back where he used a ridiculous tax loophole which allowed him to not pay taxes for multiple years.

    But what is he going to do? Say he lied and thus admit he committed tax fraud? We know DOJ and IRS aren’t going to do anything but NY State would immediately freeze his accounts and start seizing property (or at least I hope they would). It also reinforces the need to see his current tax returns even more.

    He is in a terrible bind IMHO. He can’t accept being labeled a loser but the proof is his own filings. And if he reflexively defends himself, he is toast legally. I say we throw this motherfucker an anvil.

  90. 90.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Cheryl Rofer: I know they are false, you know they are false, and Trump knows they are false. And yet, he signed them – saying they were true and accurate to the best of his knowledge. I say take him at his word and mock him for being an incompetent businessman.

  91. 91.

    BretH

    “Mr. Trump made millions of dollars in the stock market by suggesting that he was about to take over companies.”

    Nice “Work” if you can inherit it. But tell me more about the moochers on the lower economic class.

  92. 92.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: Things will be done, money will be spent, whatever is done won’t be what was promised, Cole will hate it, pull the plug, and we’ll just continue to limp along with the site we have.

  93. 93.

    Raven

    @Immanentize: I was really pissed off when they shut amberjack season down early. I’d been planning a trip for months. We came anyway and this had been as good of a run as I’ve ever had. We ate two wonderful pomps for dinner and I have big one on ice for tomorrow. The redfish on the halfshell was great and, if I don’t catch another fish it will have been a great trip. This is what we call “gravy”! Did I mention I am in agony? My elbow is totally inflamed, I’ve been on my feet and fighting through the surf for 4 days and have 4 to go. It hurts so good. . .

  95. 95.

    Immanentize

    @Raven: By the way, I’m not sure that little girl is quite 28 lbs. So, a keeper. I hope you can get her a copy of the pic. We have one of my son watching my FiL pulling a five pound bass from a lake. His look is just like that girl’s….

    ETA please rerun the pic in the morning thread? Ozark and others would want to see it.

  96. 96.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: McGahn no longer works for the government and, as a result, cannot refuse to testify. If held in contempt, because he’s out of government and back in private practice, the contempt citation will be forwarded to whomever handles accreditation in the state’s that he’s admitted to the bar, and he’ll be disbarred. That’s the threat they need to wield and the process they need to follow.

  97. 97.

    AnotherBruce

    @Duane: It would be nice if the Democrats have someone run for McConnell’s senate seat. He’s abysmally unpopular even in Kentucky.

  99. 99.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Sebastian:

    He is in a terrible bind IMHO. He can’t accept being labeled a loser but the proof is his own filings. And if he reflexively defends himself, he is toast legally. I say we throw this motherfucker an anvil.

    Yes. LOL. The tweets should be amusing.

  100. 100.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: Chief Justice is a figure head in an impeachment, he has no formal role other than to sit there, gavel things in every morning and out every afternoon. Everything of substance is run by the senators themselves. And McConnell runs the Senate.

  101. 101.

    khead

    @Immanentize:

    I could handle it if Kawhi had gone off (yet) again. But the Raptors didn’t even need him tonight. I am surprised my wife’s cousin (huge Sixers fan) does not have an ulcer.

  106. 106.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Adam L Silverman:

    the contempt citation will be forwarded to whomever handles accreditation in the state’s that he’s admitted to the bar, and he’ll be disbarred.

    Being disbarred generally has a much higher threshold than people think. Some form of sanction, though, would be applied.

  108. 108.

    Renie

    This is a great article but didn’t the NYT also have a several months’ investigation before on trump’s finances and it was literally a one day story. Let’s see if this sticks around at all.

  109. 109.

    raven

    @debbie:

    A protected slot limit is a tool used by fisheries managers to regulate the size of fish that can legally be harvested from particular bodies of water. Usually set by state fish and game departments, the protected slot limit prohibits the harvest of fish where the lengths, measured from the snout to the end of the tail, fall within the protected interval.[1] For example, on a body of water where there is a protected slot limit on largemouth bass between 12 and 16 inches, largemouth between 12 inches and 16 inches may not be harvested.[2] In this example largemouth bass less than 12 inches and greater than 16 inches may be removed from the water and kept for personal use in accordance with local fishing regulations.

    Slot limits are based on the principle that bass populations exhibit different habitat requirements during different phases of their life histories. Slot limits focus on protecting one segment of the life history which can influence overall fishing success.[3]

  110. 110.

    Bill Arnold

    Reposted from a thread two weeks ago. DJT is emotionally vulnerable to this sort of story.

    D.J. Trump’s kryptonite is evidence that his net worth is significant less than he claims. (Perhaps this was posted here by someone; reposting if so. Bold mine):
    This Joke Was Off-limits at Donald Trump’s Comedy Central Roast (E. Alex Jung Aug. 3, 2016)

    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump’s hair
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump’s wife Melania (and his two previous marriages)
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump having sex with models
    ALLOWED: Jokes about the failure of Trump Steaks, Trump Water, Trump Cologne, and other Trump products
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump’s failed casinos
    ALLOWED: Jokes about how Trump only became successful thanks to his wealthy father
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump’s weight
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump being attracted to his daughter Ivanka
    NOT ALLOWED: Any joke that suggests Trump is not actually as wealthy as he claims to be

    FWIW at the very end of that piece is the note: “* Aaron Lee has clarified with Vulture that there was no “approved” list of topics — simply a mandate that jokes about Trump not being as wealthy as he claims were off-limits.”

  111. 111.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Sebastian: NY State is using the NY Times reporting on his tax fraud with his father and family as a guide to build a potential state level case. My understanding is that this reporting is partially built out of what was discovered by the reporters in the reporting from late last year.

  115. 115.

    J R in WV

    I’m pretty happy about Trump’s tax returns revealed, even if they’re from 20 years ago. He looks so shiftless and stupid with this information coming out as he attempts to keep his more recent returns from Congress.

    I agree that any lawyer called to testify before congress that refuses without solid ground should have their state bar informed of their illegal acts. IANAL, but I do know that they are officers of the court and required to be truthful and to testify honestly when required to.

    ETA: Rachel Maddow was SO HAPPY reporting on this NY Times scoop… it was a little upprofessional, but so cute, her grin would not go away. What an asshole Trump is!

  118. 118.

    Immanentize

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Chief Justice is a figure head

    Not quite. He is like the trial judge. And remember, Rehnquist designed himself a nice new robe for the occasion.

  119. 119.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m not saying they’ll get it, but it is one lever of pressure that can be applied.

    The other, which Cummings threatened to use today on someone from Interior, is that because the majority Republican House in early 2017 brought back a law that allowed for salaries of individual Federal employees to be zeroed out as part of their deregulation rollback omnibus, individual Federal employees – from political appointees to Title 5 to Title 10 and other term appointed civil servants – can have their salaries zeroed out. Cummings threatened to do so based on that authority combined with another Federal law making it a crime for Federal employees to be non responsive to Congressional requests. While this will no longer work on McGhan as he’s back in private practice, Cummings, Nadler, Schiff, Waters, etc have the ability to inflict a lot of pain on both the folks working for the Executive Office of the President and other appointees across various agencies.

  120. 120.

    zhena gogolia

    @Kattails:

    The photos accompanying the article are nicely chosen to underscore the unmitigated arrogance of this piece of human excrement. Definitely worth using up one of my freebies.

    So true. But boy, would this article have been useful in Sept-Oct 2016. Instead of the millionth expose of Hillary’s e-mails.

  121. 121.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Renie: The NY State AG is using it as a guide to investigate the President, his family, and his businesses for tax fraud and evasion.

  122. 122.

    hilts

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Also too, this message needs to be driven home daily:

    If the US has someone whom historians will look back on as the gravedigger of American democracy, it is Mitch McConnell. He stoked the hyperpolarization of American politics to make the Obama presidency as dysfunctional and paralyzed as he possibly could.

    https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/10/25/suffocation-of-democracy

    I think BJ should consider adding “gravedigger of American democracy” as a new subject tag.

  123. 123.

    khead

    @zhena gogolia:

    The only way it matters is if Trump finally goes so batshit crazy over this story that he finally decides to actually go ahead and choke a kitten in the street on camera. That’s possible, of course, but I ain’t holding my breath. I am sure the GOP base doesn’t care at all. This story is 3 years too late. FTNYFT

    Edit – Missed your post #120. You already get the 3 years too late part.

  125. 125.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Immanentize: He’s not like the trial judge. The Chief Justice’s role in the trial of an impeached president is solely ceremonial. Everything is under control of the senators. All issues of procedure are under the control of the Majority Leader and the Senate Parliamentarian.

    But what do I know, I’m just some guy with a PhD in political science and criminology.

  126. 126.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    This is something I’ve been thinking about today with the release of this story. I’ve probably got my pattern recognition turned up too high and are seeing connections that aren’t there, but the NYT acts more like a ultra-rich political faction with a news company, than an actual newspaper these days. Remember their VERY heavy thumb on the scales in 2016 (more to weaken Hillary, but Whatevs), or the general Clinton hate, or the run-up to Iraq.

    So I do find it interesting that this article was released the very same day that the Dow crashed 500 points because he was rattling tariff sabers again with China. How long have they been working on the article?

  127. 127.

    zhena gogolia

    @khead:

    The GOP base doesn’t care but they can’t win the election all by themselves. There are a hell of a lot of people who are to the right of BJ but not part of the GOP base, and this may well penetrate their thick skulls. At least I think there’s some hope of it.

  131. 131.

    Raoul

    @Jeffro:

    the Dems, the DNC, all of us, we need to just go scorched-earth on this most un-American of American politicians

    Absolutely. And the fainting couch brigades need to be completely ignored. Because Mitch is the evil, sticky slime that is holding the whole GOP wretchedness together. Yes, of course other apparatchiks are working hard (Barr, for one). But Mitch is the enabler, and the ultimate careerist. He’s Francis Underwood but with fewer redeeming qualities.

  133. 133.

    Sebastian

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I am quite confident that NYS AG Letitia James is tightening the legal noose around Trump and his whole org. She probably has all of Allen Weisselberg’s docs.

  134. 134.

    Another Scott

    @Immanentize: I’m reluctant to jump in, giving who I’m responding to, but…

    Yeah but, the Chief Justice didn’t do too much during Clinton’s trial. One thing I remember is discussed in this CNN piece:

    January 15, 1999
    Web posted at: 7:53 p.m. EST (0053 GMT)

    WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, January 15) — In the only interruption of the House managers’ two-day presentation in the Senate impeachment trial, Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) objected Friday to their continued references to the senators as “jurors,” allowing for Chief Justice William Rehnquist to issue his first substantive ruling in the proceeding.

    “I object to the use and the continued use of the word jurors,” Harkin said in the first vocal objection of the trial. He spoke up during the final opening statement of the night by Rep. Bob Barr (R-Georgia).

    Rehnquist ruled in Harkin’s favor. “The senator from Iowa’s objection is well taken,” the chief justice said. “The Senate is not simply a jury, it is a court in this case. Therefore counsel should refrain from referring to senators as jurors.”

    Following the trial’s recess for the evening, Harkin exulted in his victory and explained that he believed the House prosecutors were attempting to “put us in a box” by limiting their roles to just that of jury.

    Agreeing with Harkin that the senators are also “judges,” Sen. Robert Torricelli (D-New Jersey) said the differentiation was important because the expanded duty allows the members to make decisions based on the “larger national interest.”

    “I believe the Rehnquist ruling on Sen. Harkin’s objection ensures that this trial now has a second phase. The House managers would have restricted the Senate to be triers of fact as jurors. The Rehnquist ruling redefined the U.S. Senate as a court, assures that senators are not simply triers of fact, but they are deciders of issues of law, and are allowed to decide issues of larger justice,” Torricelli said.

    […]

    I don’t recall that Rehnquist said much of anything else.

    It kinda looks like the Senate decides how to run the trial, and that would seemingly give McConnell a lot of power over how one would go…

    My $0.02. Corrections welcome.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  135. 135.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Another Scott:

    The Rehnquist ruling redefined the U.S. Senate as a court, assures that senators are not simply triers of fact, but they are deciders of issues of law, and are allowed to decide issues of larger justice,” Torricelli said.

    This, in and of itself, was a big thing.

  137. 137.

    Bill Arnold

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Everyone is taking the tax returns at face value, but what if Trump was lying about those losses? Seems possible to me.

    Certainly possible.

    Donald J. Trump State Park – This apocalyptic closed parkland is the result of one of Trump’s failed investments. (Last updated 6/11/17)

    Not taking kindly to his generosity being left to rot, Trump threatened to take the land back. But New York wouldn’t give it back, so the park remains, closed and overgrown.
    Signs on the nearby highway emblazoned with Donald J. Trump’s name still lead drivers to the closed park. Should you actually try and find out what is inside of Donald J. Trump State Park, you will only find an empty, unloved ruin with a famous name.

    [I have driven by said signs many times.]

    More:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_J._Trump_State_Park
    A Brief History of Donald J. Trump State Park

    1998
    Trump buys 436 acres of undeveloped land from another real estate holding company in Westchester and Putnam Counties for $2 million.
    …
    2006
    In a surprising reversal, Trump decides to donate the land to the State of New York. He claims at the April 19th press conference with then-Governor George Pataki that the land is worth $100 million, but that his children had convinced him to “do something really spectacular” in the name of conservation. Trump writes the donation off on his taxes.

    Bold mine. That’s some serious appreciation.

  138. 138.

    Raoul

    @MikeBloomberg
    Trump promised to run our nation like he ran his businesses. [with link to NYT]

    Delicious.

  139. 139.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Sebastian: While I’m sure the NY state AG will leave no stone unturned, I don’t know about having Weisselberg’s info. My understanding is that the reporting on Weisselberg’s cooperation, as well as his actual agreement to do so with SDNY, was largely overblown and inaccurate.

  141. 141.

    David Fud

    @Omnes Omnibus: I don’t think so. He gave a lot of stuff back to the banks. He isn’t merely cheating on his taxes, though I am sure there is plenty of that in there as well. This isn’t just cheating, it is incompetence with a massive amount of money. It is the story of the biggest Loser in real estate.

  144. 144.

    Sebastian

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Interesting, I missed that completely. He was given significant immunity, not sure if it was blanket immunity or not. Surely he must have given up a lot of info for that, no?

    The only alternative I can see is that the case against Trump was already tight and they needed his cooperation to go after the Russian mob. But I am not sure if that makes any sense either. This whole affair is insane.

  145. 145.

    oldgold

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall Preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

    ARTICLE I, SECTION 3, CLAUSE 6

    If push came to shove over between the Senate’s “sole power”and the Chief Justices’ “shall preside”, it would seem the Supreme Court would be the Constitutional body to resolve the matter.

    The Chief would have home court advantage.

  146. 146.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Immanentize:

    And remember, Rehnquist designed himself a nice new robe for the occasion.

    Based on the robes of either the Lord Chancellor in Iolanthe or the Learned Judge in Trial by Jury. Finding out that Rehnquist shared my love of Gilbert & Sullivan caused me to seriously reconsider some of my life choices.

  148. 148.

    Bill Arnold

    @NotMax:

    The unspoken question is what were the audits’ conclusions.

    Yes.
    FWIW this tax angle was widely known in the area at the time. And the signs are (still) on a major North-South commuter highway, and annoying to many. People just figured that he was untouchable because he was rich and aggressively litigious.

  149. 149.

    seaboogie

    While Donald Trump reported hundreds of millions of dollars in losses for 1990 and 1991, Fred Trump’s returns showed a positive income of $53.9 million, with only one major loss: $15 million invested in his son’s latest apartment project.

    The preceding bit is the last graph of the article. If you look at pics of him in the oval, the only pics on the credenza are of his parents on the right, with a rack of challenge coins on the left that look like a K-cup display. Still trying to prove to that malevolent daddy that he is a big success, and he is failing again on a far larger stage. What happens next won’t be pretty.

  150. 150.

    J R in WV

    @oldgold:

    And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

    So really, if several of the Republican Senators were in jail at the time, it wouldn’t take 67 Senators to convict… or even if some were reluctant to vote to acquit, and just stayed home that day..!!!…

    O well a guy can dream, huh?

  151. 151.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I am wondering if the NYT got the returns from Michael Cohen. Sounds like he was talking to a lot of people before he went to prison. I honestly am surprised somebody hasn’t leaked the more recent returns. For all the loans the extended family has gotten being that they’re almost all in real estate, those returns are in a bunch of places. Even the kids would have to turn in any trust returns for a loan. Maybe even Ivanka’s for Jared Kushner. I think a good forensic accoutant would be able to figure out stuff about Trump Inc from the kids’ returns. I’ve gotten a few real estate loans and done some refis over the years and you have to absolutely show your returns for a loan.

  155. 155.

    Doug R

    @Mike in NC:

    It’s a foregone conclusion that every single page of Fat Bastard’s tax returns are fraudulent.

    One year he had $57.9 million in “interest income” which no one can figure where out where it came from.

  159. 159.

    prostratedragon

    @PsiFighter37:

    And Carl Icahn takes this manbaby seriously.

    It’s shit like this that is going to start taking a toll soon. Imagine spending your fortune on lawyers and your very soul to help keep him afloat as it becomes more patently clear what he is.

  160. 160.

    trnc

    @TenguPhule:

    Trump is prepared to take a hard line with China going into 2020 in part because he intends to keep his 2016 campaign promise to fix what he views as bad trade deals. Trump believes strongly in the power of tariffs to force China and other countries to negotiate and won’t sign a deal for political expediency, said two officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal strategy.

    Well, as we now know, his business instincts have brought only success in the past, right?

  161. 161.

    trnc

    @Redshift:

    Every fucking day, every opportunity they have, every interview, every speech, Democrats should be demanding that Donald Trump release his taxes.

    And asking how much money he lost every year. Every time.

  162. 162.

    trnc

    @Another Scott: That’s @Jeffro:

    Really?!? The Turtle is going to make the case…to a country that already knows, 65-35%, that this clown is an all-day every-day liar? MAKE MITCH REFUSE TO HOLD A TRIAL AT ALL. Make him sabotage the proceedings. Pile it on! Barr’s already obviously in the tank, and Mnuchin just went in, too. McGahn can’t testify (maybe)…the WH is withholding all docs from all House committees about EVERYTHING. Make. Them. Own. It.

    I don’t care if Mitch “conscientiously presides” – I already know he won’t. I want him to do it in public every day from now until November 2020.

    The problem with that plan is the McConnell is extremely skilled. How many times have you heard about a new McConnell senate action (or inaction) and thought, “Well, he’ll never get away with THAT.” And then he does.

    I’m not saying we should lie down and take it. Just make sure you aren’t confusing evil for stupid.

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