Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

Second rate reporter says what?

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

“Squeaker” McCarthy

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

This really is a full service blog.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Open Thread: Pete Buttigieg Made the Right Choice for Pete Buttigieg

Open Thread: Pete Buttigieg Made the Right Choice for Pete Buttigieg

by | 192 Comments

This post is in: ,

This is, objectively, a great clip for Pete Buttigieg! And when he’s the Democratic candidate (probably not this year, IMO, but in 2024 or 2028) it’ll get replayed as much as Barack Obama’s 2004 keynote DNC speech got replayed during his campaign.

This year, Buttigieg is still a ‘niche’ candidate in the primaries — he needs to introduce himself to as many potential swing voters as possible, and if he can do it with ‘earned’ (i.e., free) media, so much the better. And since he’s got the right visual markers for a Fox-News-viewer-approved presidential candidate (male, white, attractive in a properly ‘Heartland’ way), social marketeers would say he could only improve his status in the current Democratic primary scrum by literally showing himself off to the crucial low-info all-American voter.

Elizabeth Warren, by choosing to refuse a Fox townhall, made the right decision for Elizabeth Warren… and for the good of the Democratic Party as a whole (not to mention, IMO, the American polity in general). Fox News has been establishing their (insanely bigoted & sexist) version of Elizabeth Warren in its viewers’ tiny minds since 2012; nothing she could say or do on a Fox platform would improve that for the better. If she’s not in the Oval Office or the new Cabinet come 2021, she’ll be (happily) continuing her good work as Ted Kennedy’s successor, the first Lioness of the Senate. She can ‘afford’ to give Fox the back of her hand, for the greater good.

(And Kamala Harris, wisely understanding that Fox viewers have been primed to attack *any* Democratic woman like mobbing grackles, did the smart thing in following Warren’s refusal. Harris also has both a larger natural Democrat constituency and a broader national media presence than Buttigieg — more to lose, less to gain.)

Pete Buttigieg, certified smart guy / polician, also must have calculated in advance that Fox News would find something in his hour-long town hall that they could hack into ongoing Attacking America!!! and Our Sacred Values!!! performance-tantrums between now and November 2020 (if not longer). Presumably he and his advisors decided that the potential negatives outweighed the positives… and, truthfully, if ‘trying to erase our country’s history’ is the best Fox can do, he might be right:

Greg Sargent, in the Washington Post, is harsher:

… The rationale behind Buttigieg’s candidacy is that he holds the magic key to unlocking the conundrum of blue-collar whites who bolted to Trump, because he never gave up on the industrial Midwest…

One can and should argue for speaking to all voters without adding the notion that other unnamed Democrats don’t actually try to do this. And if Buttigieg is indeed better at reaching these voters, he needs to show us that this is the case — even better, show us that his policies will do this — rather than constantly telling us it is the case.

Indeed, this narrative detracts from the genuinely good aspects of what Buttigieg is trying to accomplish here…

But Eric Wemple seems intrigued, though not necessarily by Buttigieg himself — “Fox News’s Chris Wallace declines to defend colleagues against attack by Pete Buttigieg”

The debate, of course, will not end after last night…

Reader Interactions

192Comments

  1. 1.

    Gelfling 545

    People seem to be making much out of Fox blatherers attacking him today. As if they weren’t going to anyway.

  4. 4.

    Mike in NC

    Every thread is improved by an image of the Blonde and Two Boobs from Faux News. I understand there’s some imbecile out there who watches them religiously.

  8. 8.

    Ella in New Mexico

    What if the answer to this dilemma is not to boycott all of Fox News but to only go on the shows that are headed by the most sane of their interviewers, e.g., Chris Wallace and Shep Smith?

    With the caveat that our folks will only do these events as long as the Wallaces and Shepards of Fox behave in a respectful and fair manner and refuse to “defend colleagues attacks” at the Democratic candidates who graciously accept an offer of an interview.

    After all, that’s what the best folks from our part of the media universe do to those who dare to come on their shows–I’d say Rachel Maddow does a fantastic job of interviewing people we all know that neither we nor she agree with.

    What if there are no right or wrong answers on this issue except that we should all be respecting individual candidates decisions on whether they want to take the risks involved with going on Fox— because it may serve as a back door, secret entrance into the cult that succeeds in saving at least a few of the victims who happen across a Democratic candidate saying things they didn’t realize Democrats are saying?

  11. 11.

    cokane

    @Gelfling 545: yep, i dont get the argument that he’s given them something to attack. I can understand “don’t legitimize FoxNews”, but they’re going to attack any liberal/lefty seeming statement from any of the candidates

  13. 13.

    zhena gogolia

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I missed the whole dust-up!

    I thought he got in a lot of good zingers. Good for him. They certainly had a friendly audience for him there during the thing. How did they arrange that?

  15. 15.

    schrodingers_cat (HectoringBully)

    @Baud: On the 23rd. Exit polls have been wrong before, they predicted Vajpayee’s return. Garbage Times had a spectacularly stupid take from some Wall Streeter called Sharma.

    ETA: They are debating whether Mohandas Gandhi’s assassin (who had links to RSS, BJP’s parent organization) was a patriot or terrorist.
    *headdesk*

  18. 18.

    dww44

    Anne Laurie, I like your take on this Dem Candidates vs Fox News, yes or no to go have a townhall on the network. I also like Steve M’s take at his NMMNG blog. The only winner from these visits is Fox News as they get a platform and a viewership and more profit than they would otherwise get, and then they can turn around and directly attack the Democratic candidates with impunity. Yes they can do that even without the candidates being on the show, but Fox News deserves to be taken down a couple of more notches by no more visits from Democratic candidates.Probably not gonna happen, but I wish it would.

  20. 20.

    jonas

    @TenguPhule: Same in NY: “Why should we send all our tax dollars down to the city and get nothin’ in return?” Of course, the total opposite is true: NYC and the surrounding wealthy counties subsidize the rest of the state about 75/25.

  21. 21.

    TenguPhule

    During the Monday night leadership meeting, Pelosi was speaking about how Democrats’ messaging isn’t breaking through because everyone is talking about corruption, special counsel Robert S. Mueller’s report and impeachment. That’s when Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.), a subcommittee chairman on Judiciary, jumped in to say something along the lines of “Madam Speaker, you’ve just made a great case for an impeachment inquiry,” according to people in the room who summarized his words.

    I really really hope this was Pelosi’s bad public speaking at fault.

  22. 22.

    Betty Cracker

    I agree. Appearing on Fox News can help an individual Democrat’s campaign, but it harms the ongoing project to delegitimize that white grievance purveyor masquerading as a news network. Buttigieg surely knows that. Fundamentally, it’s selfish. That’s not a good look.

  23. 23.

    schrodingers_cat (HectoringBully)

    @Baud: Most of Indian MSM makes NYT seem like a paragon of virtue, they are totally in Modi’s pocket. On the other hand the by-elections and assembly (state level) elections have been consistently anti-BJP in the last few years.

    ETA: The poison Modi is injecting in India’s body politic will lead to the fracture along India’s fault lines which are many. It will be caste and region rather than religious. That is my prediction.

  27. 27.

    mad citizen

    As others here have mentioned, Mayor Pete is just that, Mayor Pete. If he wants to “go to where those people are”, then run for the Senate in Indiana in 2022 and win it. Otherwise he’s probably slated for a HHS or Transportation cabinet position.

  28. 28.

    JAFD

    Television

    I’ve heard it’s a truly marvelous invention.

    Oneovdesedaze maybe I should get one ?

  29. 29.

    Cacti

    @mad citizen:

    Otherwise he’s probably slated for a HHS or Transportation cabinet position.

    Or junior rust belt good will ambassador.

  30. 30.

    Jay

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    The NoMoreMisterNice Blog link says, no.

    Faux is going to take clips and selectively edit them, crank up the fauxrage machine to 11, and crank it out 24/7.

    Yes, they can do that with any media clip, but it makes it less effective than their own copyrighted material.

  31. 31.

    Mary G

    Can”t link, but hope someone will put up Kris Kobach’s list of conditions to take over DHS. He calls himself the “Czar”.

  33. 33.

    NotMax

    “It is the nature of grotesque things that you can’t look away.”

    Not a mini micro moment’s hesitation looking away from McConnell or from Dolt 45.

  34. 34.

    Jay

    So, I’m thinking of starting a Go Fund Me, to genetically re-engineer mosquitoes. Instead of sourcing protein from blood, they will target fat, and we’ll get rid of the itch.

    Anybody interested?

  36. 36.

    Skepticat

    @JAFD:

    Oneovdesedaze maybe I should get one ?

    I haven’t owned a television in three decades, and I don’t miss it at all. I get the same basic information online, but because I seldom stream anything, it’s silent. And I have these fascinating little things called books.

  37. 37.

    Mnemosyne

    So it looks like tonight is going to be the night we have to euthanize our kitty Annie. A vet will be coming to our apartment to do the deed.

    She’s still walking around a bit and wants to be near us, but she can’t keep any food or liquids down and waiting much longer means letting her continue to starve to death. We know it’s the right decision but DAMN is it hard when she’s still mostly herself.

    So please keep a kind thought in your heart that our small semi-feral kitty will make it to the Rainbow Bridge without too much stress or fear for any of us.

  38. 38.

    Keith P.

    @NotMax: Here’s the full list from the Times:
    1. Office in the West Wing.
    2. Walk-in privileges with the president.
    3. Assistant to the President rank—at highest pay level for WH senior staff.
    4. Staff of 7 people (2 attorneys, 2 research analysts, 1 scheduler, 1 media person, 1 assistant).
    5. POTUS sits down individually with Czar and the secretaries of Homeland Security, Defense, Justice, Ag, Interior, and Commerce, and tells each of the Secretaries to follow the directives of the Czar without delay, subject to appeal to the President in cases of disagreement.
    6. 24/7 access to either a DHS or DOD jet. Czar must be on the border every week.
    7. Ability to spend weekends in KS with family on way from border back to DC, unless POTUS needs Czar elsewhere.
    8. Security detail if deemed necessary after security review.
    9. Serve as the face of Trump immigration policy – the principal spokesman on television and in the media.
    10. Promise that by November 1, 2019, the president will nominate Kris Kobach to be DHS Secretary, unless Kobach wishes to continue in Czar position.

  39. 39.

    Major Major Major Major

    Because open thread: I found this cool twitter account that tweets autogenerated “ink blots.” (Might look bad if it doesn’t embed for you)

  40. 40.

    Mary G

    @Mary G:My mistake. – Kobach doesn’t want DHS he wants to be over them, plus Secretaries of Defense, Agriculture and more, like DOJ.

    I’ve said it before, but give me a tenth of the confidence that these mediocre white men have.

  42. 42.

    Immanentize

    @Mnemosyne: I am so sorry Mnem. I can’t imagine that sorrow even though I’ve done it three times in my life. Peace to the kitcat and to you.

  44. 44.

    Anne Laurie

    @TenguPhule:

    Republicans in Illinois want to kick Chicago out of the State.

    Newbies! They should talk to the New York State legislators who’ve been trying to kick NYC out of the state since… well, forever. As soon as they look beyond the warm-wet-diaper satisfaction of yelling at Those People, the tangled economic reality becomes obvious: Even if it were possible to sever the ties (say, by making Chicago ITS OWN STATE, hahahahaha), the Big Sinful City can do a lot better without the rubes embedded in its coffers than the rubes can do without those vital dollars.

    But it’ll profit any smart journalist who starts looking into the business dealings of the pols ginning up this latest brainfart — at least in NY, as I remember it, a call for separation invariably means the caller has some kind of less-than-honest land/business development queued up that would be profitable in the event. Or even in the general confusion around the ‘debate.’ Sometimes it *also* means the pols calling for secession are about to get busted for financial chicanery, but I do not claim to know enough about IL politics to guess whether their pols are as inclined as their Albany counterparts to… loose concepts of financial ethics.

  46. 46.

    geg6

    @Betty Cracker:

    Completely agree. Especially since we’re talking about a primary race here, not a general election, where you could plausibly argue that you are trying to reach persuadables on the other side.

  52. 52.

    Dan B

    Thanks for focusing on what matters. Is this a valid way to reach swing voters? Does it fit the candidate’s goals? Does it fit the goals of Dem’s and progressives? It would be great to have some research on these points.

    I loked the parts of the Townhall I’ve seen so far. The framing seems expert to me. The right to abortion being best left to capable women and not intrusive government. That Elizabeth Warren has valid reasons not to appear on Fox, because of specific things Sean Hannity says about immigrants being diseased and Laura Ingraham…

    One stat jumped out at me last week. 7 million people voted for Obama in 2012 and for Trump in 2016. They may all be racist but it seems odd they would vote for Obama. Maybe what I call clueless racist. But it may be that many were POC and immigrants who wanted a strong father figure. Do many of them watch FOX? Would persuading 1/3 or 1/2 of them to vote Democrat make a difference? Rhetorical question..

    Another report which I should have bookmarked found that a very sizable chunk of voters care about character and thought that “wealthy Trump” couldn’t be corrupted and spoke his truth, unlike slimy politicians. So us policy wonks need to persuade “character voters” that our candidates have good character. Sigh…

    Pete really needs to work on social justice and learning from POC if he wants to go anywhere. And if he wants to walk the talk convincingly. But I’m still impressed with the reaction of the Townhall crowd. Wallace seemed shocked. Good!

  53. 53.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Anne Laurie:

    I do not claim to know enough about IL politics to guess whether their pols are as inclined as their Albany counterparts to… loose concepts of financial ethics.

    The “Corruption in Illinois” wikipedia article is helpfully subdivided by type of public office.

    “Electoral fraud in Illinois pre-dates the territory’s admission to the Union in 1818, Illinois was the third most corrupt state in the country, after New York and California, judging by federal public corruption convictions between 1976-2012.”

  58. 58.

    Anne Laurie

    @Betty Cracker:

    Fundamentally, it’s selfish. That’s not a good look.

    I… would not go that far. There’s no politician gets even this close to a presidential nomination without a very healthy dose of egotism, and quite possibly Buttigieg considers his own abilities rather more highly than you or I. As I remember it, that young Obama dude took quite a bit of flak in 2007 for playing both sides in his earlier campaigns, as well as his contest with HRC. His eventual election didn’t work out too badly for the rest of us, so it’s possible Buttigieg will surprise us all, too. (Although not in *this* cycle, I’m thinking.)

  59. 59.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Dan B:

    Pete really needs to work on social justice and learning from POC if he wants to go anywhere.

    I keep hearing people say this, but then every time I watch him talk about anything for more than ten seconds, he’s always fine on the topic. Just ten days ago I saw him randomly give a discursive-but-well-informed answer on the persistence of segregation in schools. (No link… He came to my company’s HQ for like a half hour and took some questions. I watched the livestream.)

    ETA: At the Human Rights Campaign speech he made a point of talking about how our concept of “blue-collar worker” shouldn’t exclude trans women of color

  60. 60.

    Anne Laurie

    @Mnemosyne: I’m so sorry to hear that. May the day soon come when her memory brings a smile to your lips before it brings a tear to your eye!

  61. 61.

    Gelfling 545

    @Jay: I don’t know if that’s necessarily so. At least a few of their viewers will have seen him in real time if only through hate watching. It might be riskier to take liberties with the video.

  62. 62.

    mrmoshpotato

    @TenguPhule:

    Republicans in Illinois want to kick Chicago out of the State.

    Where did you read this? True or not, I’d have no problem with our next governor being a gay, black woman too.

    Then the Republicans can secede from the state. Fuck ’em.

  63. 63.

    Ohio Mom

    @Skepticat: We stopped watching TV by attrition about 15 years ago. When little Ohio Son was up, he wanted to watch his videos; when he went to sleep, we exhausted parents usually went to bed too.

    We didn’t mean to stop, it just happened. Refusing to pay for cable was part of it too.

    Once in a great while, there is something I want to watch in full — the presidential debates come to mind — and then I use the laptop.

    I don’t miss it at all, and on the rare occasions when I do get to watch TV, it strikes me as downright wierd.

  66. 66.

    Ohio Mom

    @Mnemosyne: My condolences. It’s good that the vet will come to your home, that will be so much easier on Annie. You’ve done everything you could, up to and including sparing her more pain.

  67. 67.

    Gelfling 545

    @Anne Laurie: Given where he’s mayor there is at least some suggestion of evidence that he may have had at least some success in addressing the “economically anxious” crowd. At least they heard his own words and not the Fox approved regurgitation.
    And it pissed Trump off, so there’s that.

  68. 68.

    joel hanes

    @Dan B:

    7 million people voted for Obama in 2012 and for Trump in 2016

    misogyny stronger than racism ?

    effect of thirty-year propaganda campaign demonizing Sec. Clinton ?

    effect of last-minute social-media Russian sock-puppet ratfucking demonizing Sec. Clinton ?

  71. 71.

    Ruckus

    @JAFD:
    I just got a Samsung model they call a smart TV. Signed on to my wi-fi and I get Netflix, YouTube,Internet, prime, hulu, direct, tvPlus, google play, vudu, with no cable access. Now you have to have an account with any one of those to watch them but it works great.
    It’s amazing for watching movies or YouTubes and I can listen to music through my amp so it’s an entertainment center without those 400+ channels of crap.

  73. 73.

    NotMax

    @Dan B

    The thing which bothers me the most about him is his playing two cards which are inherently in opposition.

    The I’m a multi-lingual Rhodes scholar card.
    The aw shucks, I’m just a corn-fed provincial card.

  75. 75.

    Mnemosyne

    Thanks, all. We’re doing one of Annie’s favorite things right now while we wait for the doctor: watching a TV show about cats. This one is a Canadian documentary called “The Lion in Your Living Room.” She seems to be enjoying herself. She actually stood up for a few minutes when we first turned it on.

  76. 76.

    Jay

    @Gelfling 545:

    They already have, on half a dozen of their sockpuppet shows,

    Faux viewers are reprogrammable meat puppets and Faux is already running it 24/7.

    The Faux Town Hall audience within 24 hours will completely accept the 2 Boobs and a Couch framing.

  79. 79.

    tobie

    I thought this quote from the town hall was telling:

    Even though some of these [FOX] hosts are not always there in good faith, I think a lot of people tune into this network in good faith.

    I know a lot of people who watch FOX exclusively from the morning show, Fox and Friends, to Chris Wallace on Sunday and with Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson thrown in weeknights for good measure. I’m not sure what it means to watch a channel in “good faith.” The folks who tune into FOX do so in good faith that the network will given them a reliably conservative spin, and the programming feeds their grotesque sense that small town, white folks are the most maligned people on earth. There are many reasons I don’t like Mayor Pete, and his appearance on FOX is not top among these, but the above quote feels like a shameless pander to me. What draws people to FOX is malice and the network’s sole raison d’être is to feed these impulses.

  85. 85.

    geg6

    @Ohio Mom:

    I respect your choice but disagree with it. One, you miss a lot of fine entertainment. The most creative and smart and funny entertainment out there isn’t found on the movie screens today. If you want interesting, provocative, intelligent and risk taking past times that aren’t reading, you won’t find it in theaters, but on the “small” screen.

    Second, you miss a lot of cultural things and that affects your ability to understand the climate. One of the reasons I love working in higher ed is that I am plugged in to the culture.l through my students. And it helps me see how things break through. TV is one of those things. In different ways than with older people, but still massively influential.

    TV is not deserving of your disdain and I think you’re very wrong about not missing out by not having one. But you do you. I’m sure I can’t convince you to my point of view.

  86. 86.

    Ruckus

    @Mnemosyne:
    Damn. That’s always a difficult decision to have to make. But that’s the price we pay for their company, we have to make the difficult decisions they can’t so they don’t have to suffer needlessly.
    Still, sorry that you have to make it.
    My sister was able to put herself in hospice when her cancer had decided it was her time. The number of people standing outside her room saying she shouldn’t be allowed to make that decision astounded me. Seven years prior I had to make that decision for my dad because he could not and while I didn’t like it, I knew it was time and would be better for him, which is the only criteria that matters, what is best for the person/animal in question.

  88. 88.

    Aleta

    @Jay: or:
    “Nature’s acupuncturists. Are they stimulating your immune system after a long winter?”

  89. 89.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Jay: 5) Bull market
    6) Great Depression II – The Depressioner
    7) Giant people-eating mosquitos

    And it will all be your fault because of that IPO. If only you’d stayed private…

  91. 91.

    Aleta

    @Mnemosyne: Oh Mnem my heart going out to you and Annie and G.

    家毎に
    地球の人や
    天の川

    In every dwelling

    a denizen of Earth –
    
the Milky Way

    —Mitsuhashi Toshio

  92. 92.

    Jay

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Read an interesting study about a month ago:

    1) Western “innovation” is funded by Inheritance/VC’s
    2) when there is no growth and limited profit left, IPO’s are used to flog stock and make the Rich, richer,

    Cough, cough, Uber, Lyft,

    So I figure JPML Inc, will start with a value of Go Fund Me, then VC investment akin to that Juice Bag thingy, then a WSJ supposition of $100 billion, and when we go public at $69 billion,……..

  93. 93.

    dww44

    @Dan B

    Another report which I should have bookmarked found that a very sizable chunk of voters care about character and thought that “wealthy Trump” couldn’t be corrupted and spoke his truth, unlike slimy politicians. So us policy wonks need to persuade “character voters” that our candidates have good character. Sigh…

    I encountered voters before and after the election who realized that Trump was lacking in the truth telling department, but who also actually believed that HRC was as bad a liar and more so, was thoroughly corrupt. Two of them were women with whom I spoke ahead of the election, one an Assistant DA in the local Federal Judicial district, thought that HRC was lacking in character, moreso than Trump. Deepdown, I think they all knew what a low character person Trump was, but the inclination to vote the Republican ticket is very much ingrained here. Women voters seem to set a much higher standard for women candidates than they do for men.

    IMO, Hillary got a very bad rap and was the victim of decades of smearing, but she didn’t have the charisma to overcome those negatives. Then there was Comey and the Russians and Facebook. It would have taken a new Obama like candidate to have overcome all of that.

  99. 99.

    Ruckus

    @NotMax:
    Tom and I are in mind meld. Except I have even less going on than he sets up.
    It really is pretty easy to do, the hardest part was learning the remote.
    I did turn off the information sharing bit. Thanks!

  100. 100.

    Doug R

    @Betty Cracker:

    I agree. Appearing on Fox News can help an individual Democrat’s campaign, but it harms the ongoing project to delegitimize that white grievance purveyor masquerading as a news network. Buttigieg surely knows that. Fundamentally, it’s selfish. That’s not a good look.

    ….and that’s why Wilmer was so quick to accept.

  101. 101.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @NotMax: I remember a guy named Bill Clinton who managed to play Georgetown/Rhodes Scholar/Yale Law and at the same time as Big Mac loving good old boy.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    Buttigieg on Trump: “It is the nature of grotesque things that you can’t look away.”

    I do love that though. Especially the way he said it- like “we all know this” – and then the woman behind him nodding in agreement :)

  106. 106.

    Ruckus

    @mrmoshpotato:
    Where do you see 13 in that comment?
    I typed 400+ channels.
    Now most of those are a complete waste of time and human energy but still there are a lot of choices.
    BTW the last time I had TV of any kind other than Netflix, cable wasn’t available at my location and I got one fuzzy channel with an antenna. I can get cable here, I’m just not inclined to do so.

  108. 108.

    Kay

    I know it’s supposed to be about reaching The People but that’s not why it’s a tough choice for me. It’s a tough choice for me because it’s such a pleasure to attack Trump while on Fox.

  111. 111.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    That would certainly turn WI blue and IL red for the foreseeable future.

    Yeah. We’d keep our sports teams. No cheering for WI’s hockey team. Oh wait! They don’t have one!

    And just one baseball team? Pfft! 1 out until Cubs win! Cubs win!

  113. 113.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Ruckus:

    Where do you see 13 in that comment?
    I typed 400+ channels.

    It was a reference. How old were you in 1979?

    ETA: Most TV is garbage. I don’t have cable and watch 2 shows over the air.

  114. 114.

    Kay

    I don’t know what the candidates should do, but I do know other members of the political media scolding candidates for not going on a cable program are self-interested. They all work in the industry! Of course they want the candidates to have to do a mandatory stop on each program. If Fox gets boycotted they’re all at risk.
    The sanctimonious lectures are annoying. This is an industry. They need content to feed the giant maw. If they didn’t snag the top politicians they’d be sitting around talking to each other.

  116. 116.

    Ruckus

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I think that Bill back in the day was far more subtle.
    He also played upon his appeal to women and I know that a lot of women liked that, mom sure did. She got to shake his hand once. She talked about that whenever you talked politics at all.

    PB seems pretty sure of himself, but to me it isn’t as comfortable at it as Clinton or Obama. That may come with age and experience. He’s got an impressive CV, but I feel he needs a bit more seasoning to play well in the big leagues.

  117. 117.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Ruckus: we cut the cord last month. Now none of my money goes to fox or the kardashians and that makes me happy. Still get about 40 channels with an antenna but other than golf there’s nothing good on them. I wish I’d done this years ago and spent that extra $200 a month on hookers and blow like I do the rest of my money.

  119. 119.

    Aleta

    @Ruckus: Also, when there is a very big int’l news story, you can usually find someone live streaming a couple of US and int’l networks on their youtube channel.

    For me, to watch youtube doesn’t need an account. Primitively, I sometimes use the laptop to search for old movies or something on YT (bc more of use comes up that way for me) and then enter the title on the sam sung. No cable

  121. 121.

    NotMax

    @mrmoshpotato

    12 channels listed on the dial. Channel 1 went away early in TV history.

    So old can remember separate set top boxes with dials for 68 (originally 69) UHF TV frequencies in addition to the 12 on the inbuilt VHF dial.

  125. 125.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @opiejeanne: Cubs fans don’t care. They got what they wanted, and, if the good people of the world have to suffer, they just don’t care.

  126. 126.

    Butter emails!!!

    It may have been the right choice for Buttigieg, but it wasn’t necessarily the right choice for the country. Fox is already crowing about the 1.1 million viewers crushing the competition.

  127. 127.

    Ruckus

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Hookers and blow.
    At least you are supporting an honest industry.
    Cut the cable 15 yrs ago. Stopped drinking 16 yrs ago. I wonder if that is a coincidence?

  128. 128.

    mrmoshpotato

    @opiejeanne: Don’t you dare blame it on the Cubs. Hillary won IL. (I say that lightheartedly.)

    And the Phils tied it up, so we’re going to the 10th.

    On a serious note, I’d take a Cubs loss (and no WS in my lifetime) and still having one Republican senator in exchange for President Hillary Clinton.

  129. 129.

    NotMax

    @mrmoshpotato

    Most radio is garbage too (see Sturgeon’s Law), yet 99.44%* of people who don’t own a TV do own a radio.

    What gets my goat is those (not any here, so far) who extol not owning a TV as some sort of mark of superiority.

    *Statistic pulled out of thin air; bet it’s not far off the mark, though.

  130. 130.

    laura

    @Mnemosyne: Oh it’s hard to make the call — and assume her suffering yourself in doing so. I wish you and annie the most gentle and loving transition. So sorry for this Mnemosyne.

  131. 131.

    Dan B

    @Major Major Major Major: I know he’s good at the talk but his appearances at HBCU’s and black media have been limited. There are leaders who have reached out to the campaign and not received a response.

    There is a suspicious pattern that people critical of him speak in very broad strokes and don’t offer criticisms of other white male pols who do the same, Eric Swalwell & Wilmer on Fox. Crickets. It seems like there are a great paucity of questioning actual statements in any detail. Mich like the evidence that Hillary was up to terrible things in her emails. Did we get details of the conspiratorial plots? No.

    It would be wise of his campaign to get in front of the innuendo by focusing on people of color and immigrant communities. They’re available for now. He missed She the People and in a few months people won’t remember why.

  132. 132.

    Ruckus

    @Aleta:
    You are right YouTube doesn’t require an account to watch, everything else does. I can also get internet access on the TV because of course that’s how smart TVs do the smart stuff.
    All the international news outlets have internet sites and some of them you can actually see without a subscription. I get all the news I want, I get all the shows I want. What I don’t get is to see them the moment they come out. And I don’t care.

  135. 135.

    Aleta

    @mrmoshpotato: To change the channel I used to have to stand up, walk away from the couch and 1/4 mile down to the corner lamppost, uphill in the snow both ways.

  136. 136.

    Dan B

    @joel hanes: Exactly. So it’s disturbing because we don’t have detailed analysis just the Buttery Males (the gay version of but her emails!) accusation. It would be wierd but not totally surprising to learn that most of the 7 million+ switch voters are believers in strong-father leadership. Ugh.

    Time to start a generational project on strong feminism… OMG, please make it not so. Americans must be more evolved than this, right?

  137. 137.

    Ruckus

    @NotMax:
    You must hear the radio the kids play at work. Same channel I hated when I was their age. And I think it’s owned by Clear Channel. Who I hate with a passion hotter than hell. I had to work with some Clear Channel crap when I worked in professional sports. The guys that worked on the floor were fine, but the big wigs were fucking assholes. It must have been a prerequisite to being hired, they were all uniformly interchangeable assholes.

  138. 138.

    Aleta

    @Ruckus: our sam sung is rel. old and the original remote broke down early and we never figured out how to do the cool things

  139. 139.

    Don K

    @Mnemosyne:
    Not much more than a year ago we had to make the same decision WRT our kitty Pepper, who had an autoimmune disease attacking her skin that didn’t respond to any treatment. She wasn’t eating (I suppose because the disorder was attacking her mouth), and I was damned if I was going to see her starve to death on me. She was loving until the end, and I know euthanasia was the right decision.

  144. 144.

    TomatoQueen

    @Mnemosyne: Guessing by the time stamp that the vet has been there and Annie is on the Bridge, I hope her end was swift and gentle.

  145. 145.

    Dan B

    @Mnemosyne: Feeling your sadness. It’s hard to be the god that must decide on such certain / uncertain terms, especially for a critter that relies on you and trusts you. We’re on the verge of putting down another one of ours – 19 years and still a character. Love to your family.

  147. 147.

    Ruckus

    @Dan B:

    Americans must be more evolved than this, right?

    You just arrive here by space ship?
    Some are, in a year and a half we get to find if it’s enough. I’d bet it is, more of us voted for HRC than for shit for brains.

  148. 148.

    NotMax

    @NotMax

    Vintage pics of UHF set top box, for the youngsters: #1 – #2 #3

    69 (later 68)

    (Channel 37 was eventually assigned exclusively for use by radio telescopes.)

  149. 149.

    Gretchen

    Today one of Wilmer’s boys told me that Sharice Davids didn’t really win the primary against the guy Wilmer campaigned here for. Kobach, as Secretary of State, used his office to fix the primary for himself and against Wilmer’s guy. He lost in a 7 way primary but it must have been fixed.

  150. 150.

    Ruckus

    @Aleta:
    My grandad was a TVaholic and when color came out he jumped. I got his old B&W set. He’d added a switch to turn off the speaker when commercials came on. He’s the one that taught me to hate commercials and I honor him in this regard to this day.

  151. 151.

    smike

    He’d added a switch to turn off the speaker when commercials came on.

    Excellent!

  153. 153.

    Ruckus

    @Gretchen:
    When you’ve voluntarily swallowed the hook that hard there is no rational thought left. My advice would be to back away carefully as fast as you can, you never know how poisonous that crap is.

  156. 156.

    Emma

    @Mnemosyne: Mnem I am so sorry. And of course she’ll cross the Rainbow Bridge. She loves much and is much loved. That’s all it takes.

  159. 159.

    spudgun

    @Mnemosyne: So very sorry…you know you’re doing the right thing, but that doesn’t make it any less gut-wrenching.

    Thinking of you and sending virtual hugs.

  163. 163.

    Anne Laurie

    @Don K:

    New Jersey didn’t even get an honorable mention? As one born and raised in NJ, I’m shocked!

    Theory I used to hear, growing up in NYC, is that the really talented NJ-born political grifters all moved to the Big Apple, where the rewards were so much greater.

    I suspect (/snark) by Mx4’s metric, Illinois excels by drawing all the wannabe corruption-brokers from the neighboring Heartland states, while California brings in the West-of-the-Mountain version…

  164. 164.

    NotMax

    @Ruckus

    Once owned a TV which had an electronically operated channel dial.

    BUT – there was no remote so one could run through the channels from across the room. Instead it had a rocker switch just above the channel dial. So one had to get up and walk over to the TV to hold down that switch in either the forward or back position.

    Then there was the 27″ TV which bought used for less than twenty bucks back when. Original owner has happy to get rid of it because the picture tilted nearly 45 degrees uphill. Took it home, removed the back and very carefully, using a thick towel, rotated the big magnet on the back stem of the cathode ray tube until the picture was correctly aligned. That one was a Muntz, known in electronics circles as “the gutless wonder.” Eventually gave it to the parents, who ended up getting and additional 20 years of service from it.

  165. 165.

    Pete Downunder

    I’m a bit late to the thread and admit I’m Buttigieg curious. Can I recommend you all look at his Iowa town hall from a few days ago on YouTube and listen just to his answer to a young (age 11) girl’s question about bullying. It starts at about 26:37 and is the best response I’ve ever heard.

  168. 168.

    Dan B

    @Ruckus: You pegged where I’m at with Pete. Women would look at Pete as a sweet guy who could be their son. Different than Bill.

  169. 169.

    Ruckus

    @NotMax:
    A lot of those old boxes lasted a long time. The picture was crap, but that was also because of the signal. That B&W box of grandads was probably about a 1955-57, size of a Buick, screen maybe 19, probably 17 inches. Getting it upstairs to my room, was a wonder no one died in the process. It worked as good as new till at least 1970 when we got rid of it. They lasted because they were simple. And because they were expensive for their time, they could be built well. And nothing that went inside was really all that sophisticated, even for the time. The new industries needed were there from building radar during the war and vacuum tubes had been being produced in quantities for years. Remember going to the store and checking the tubes in your radio or TV on the machine and buying new to replace the bad ones?

  170. 170.

    NotMax

    @Ruckus

    Yup, tube testing machine at the neighborhood drug store. With the attached flip book to get the settings right.

  171. 171.

    NotMax

    @NotMax

    “Hm, the meter is showing this tube is in the yellow. Guess I can hold out until the needle registers into the red.”

    ;)

  172. 172.

    Ian R

    @Steve in the ATL: I think my first mp3 player might have still had a radio tuner in it that I never used. I can’t honestly remember the last time I listened to broadcast radio outside of someone’s car. 1995ish?

  173. 173.

    NotMax

    @Ian R

    First Walkman-type device (a Toshiba, not a Sony) came with a ‘cassette’ one could insert in place of a tape to listen to FM radio. Tuning dial on the cassette itself.

  178. 178.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Mnemosyne: I’m so sorry! What I hate about this time we all have experienced is feeling shitty as hell about the best we can be for our pets.

  179. 179.

    CapnMubbers

    @Ruckus: I had a jerry-rigged off switch for my first TV! acquired relatively late in life; I resisted for a long time. The first season of SNL made for confusion at first with their “commercials”, a few got silenced inadvertently.

    Last TV, I wore the letters off the mute button. I don’t know whether I’ll choose to have another, the Paradise fire really simplified my life and I may keep it that way.

  181. 181.

    something fabulous

    @Mnemosyne: Oh no! We had to say goodbye to one of the kitties at the rescue this weekend, who’d been with us there going on for 10 years. It’s so very hard even when it is clearly time. You are doing the best thing, having a house call set up, but still, never ever easy. Sending all good thoughts to you and yours in this hard sad moment.

  182. 182.

    Kattails

    @Mnemosyne: Oh no. Dropping in very late on the way to bed, but I do feel for you, I had to do this just a few months ago. My vet also does house calls; it helped so much that Bert could pass in his own space. May your experience be gentle for her and supportive for you. Sending hugs.

  184. 184.

    Ruckus

    @CapnMubbers:

    I don’t know whether I’ll choose to have another, the Paradise fire really simplified my life and I may keep it that way.

    Didn’t have to go through that hell. It’s a rather shitty way to simplify your life but it is faster. Have a buddy who has had it happen by fire twice. He lost his house the first time to earthquake/fire the same day my first business was ruined. Second time 14 yrs later, a forrest fire like you. And like you everything was gone.
    I’m trying to do the simplifying now because I just don’t want to have to deal with a lot of crap any more.

  186. 186.

    chopper

    @geg6:

    exactly. there’s a time and a place for ‘gop outreach’ and this aint it. unless you’re running for vice president, which i’m willing to bet pete is doing.

  189. 189.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Mnemosyne:I’m so sorry to hear this, Mnemosyne. I left you a note in an earlier thread re: how CBD kept our lymphoma-stricken 19 year-old Jeter Kitty going for several more months than anyone ever imagined he had. Annie Kitty seems to be in a place where that won’t be an option and I’m so sorry. I wish you and her a peaceful transition.

  192. 192.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @NotMax: Pure horseshit. ” I’m a multi-lingual Rhodes scholar who continues to respect the kinds of people & places he grew up around & can connect with them in positive ways.” Any Democratic candidate who plays his/her education & intelligence as an I’m-better-than-you “trump” card ought to be instantly disqualified.

Comments are closed.