Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Ah, the different things are different argument.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

The words do not have to be perfect.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

The Supreme Court is corrupt. Democrats must win in November and force court reform.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

You are here: Home / Politics / America / The President Has Thrown a (Semi-Choreographed) Temper Tantrum

The President Has Thrown a (Semi-Choreographed) Temper Tantrum

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To quickly follow up on TaMara’s update, the President went into a scheduled Oval Office meeting with Democratic congressional leaders, lost his shit, and walked out after three minutes and then convened an “impromptu” Rose Garden press statement. I put impromptu into quotes, because someone had printed handouts for the White House Press Corps ready.

From The New York Times (emphasis mine):

President Trump abruptly blew up a scheduled meeting with Democratic congressional leaders on Wednesday, lashing out at Speaker Nancy Pelosi for accusing him of a cover-up and declaring that he could not work with them until they stopped investigating him.

He then marched out into the Rose Garden, where reporters had been gathered, and delivered a statement bristling with anger as he demanded that Democrats “get these phony investigations over with.” He said they could not legislate and investigate at the same time. “We’re going to go down one track at a time,” he said.

The confrontation came on a day when pressure over a possible impeachment effort raised temperatures on both sides of the aisle. Ms. Pelosi arrived at the White House for a session with the president set to talk about infrastructure shortly after meeting with restive House Democrats to talk about impeachment. She emerged from that meeting with Democrats accusing Mr. Trump of a “cover-up.”

When she and Senator Chuck Schumer arrived at the White House, Mr. Trump was loaded for bear. He walked into the Cabinet Room, did not shake anyone’s hand or sit in his seat, according to a Democrat informed about the meeting. He said he wanted to advance legislation on infrastructure, trade and other matters, but that “Speaker Pelosi said something terrible today and accused me of a cover-up,” according to the Democrat.

After just three minutes, he left the room before anyone else could speak, the Democrat said.

From TPM (emphasis mine):

“Instead of walking in happily into a meeting, I walk in and look at people that have just said that I was doing a cover-up, I don’t do cover-ups,” he said. “You people know probably better than anybody.”

He later said that Democrats need to choose between “investigation” or “investment,” implying that he won’t work with Democrats until investigations into him and his administration are over.

Speaker Pelosi has clearly gotten under his skin, just as she did with the shutdown.

Gonna be a long, hot summer in DC.

Open thread.

 

Reader Interactions

165Comments

  1. 1.

    dmsilev

    “Pelosi seems to have his number. She seems to be able to get into his head in a way I don’t think we’ve seen.”

    Remember the 2016 debates? Hillary had him flustered and confused and stammering and everything. He doesn’t deal well with women who can call him on his crap.

  5. 5.

    Luthe

    Yet another reason why I trust Nancy SMASH! on impeachment: she’s got a degree in Trumpian headology unmatched by anyone else in Roundworld. When she drops the hammer, she’s going to make it HURT.

  6. 6.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think this recollection, that Josh Marshall published several years ago also is very indicative:
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/how-trump-learned-to-be-a-predator

    There is a personality type with a New York developer, one Donald learned from Fred when he carried his dad’s briefcase to acquisition meetings out in the boroughs and it goes like this: Donald contracts for a service or good, or the acquisition of a piece of land for $1 million. He then does not pay you. You ask Donald for your million dollars. Donald yells at you, basely, abusively, wholly out of character to the rich gentleman you broke bread with and made the deal with. He tells you that no, YOU owe him $200,000. Gives you no reason but screams how can you be such a son of a bitch to rip him off, how he’s going to sue you, expose you as a cheat, etc. You’re off your pins, defensive. How could this be the guy who was so nice when he picked up the check at Per Se? So, you compromise, because human nature avoids conflict, right? This is what he’s gaming you for because once you compromised, you’ve lost. You’ve inferred his premise that you have some complicity in the matter otherwise why would you compromise? You are on the defensive and will never get it back. You offer $750,000 as a settlement, angry but want it over and done with. He then sues you. Why, because you’ve already committed yourself to the loss. You volunteered to surrender your position and what will stop you from keeping going? I’ve seen many a New Yorker settle things like this with Trump people for 5-10 cents on the dollar and then happy, even eager to keep doing business with them. Why? Because he got in their heads with this aggressively counterintuitive behavior.

  9. 9.

    Brachiator

    To quickly follow up on TaMara’s update, the President went into a scheduled Oval Office meeting with Democratic congressional leaders, lost his shit, and walked out after three minutes and then convened an “impromptu” Rose Garden press statement. I put impromptu into quotes, because someone had printed handouts for the White House Press Corps ready.

    Weird re-election strategy.

  10. 10.

    jl

    I’d like to see investigations into immigrant detainee deaths while in custody of Trupmster immigration service. Let Trump stonewall that.

    I heard a news report this morning saying that prior to Trumpsters making a mess of a system that was working, in response to nothing historically unusual, there had been no deaths while in custody for over ten years. Nothing like this series of deaths happened under GW or Obama. And for substantial period of time, those administrations had to deal with higher flow of undocumented immigrants at the border.

    Trump’s immigration crisis is entirely fake, and the increasing cost and logistical burden is entirely due to Trumpster incompetence and malfeasance and their attempts to commit fraud on the public, and people are dying for no reason.

  11. 11.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Adam L Silverman: I think that’s what happened today. But, as folks were saying on an earlier thread, NANCY SMASH seems particularly to unnerve him. He can’t see women as anything but playtoys.

    It may be excellent acting, but he sounds like he is really losing it this time.

  14. 14.

    rikyrah

    @jl:

    I’d like to see investigations into immigrant detainee deaths while in custody of Trupmster immigration service. Let Trump stonewall that.

    Is there a Congressional Committee that can investigate that? ICAM with you…needs to be investigated. Haul those mofos in who allow for the deaths of these children.

  15. 15.

    trnc

    If DT can cheat on his pregnant wife and bankrupt casinos at the same time, why shouldn’t Congress be able to do more than one thing at a time?

  16. 16.

    Yutsano

    @jl: I’d love to see various Republicans defend the administration on that. Dead kids vs Party Uber Alles? There wouldn’t be enough popcorn for that.

  17. 17.

    FlipYrWhig

    Earlier that day, presumably: “I need new footage of me Being Tough, start making some signs”

  19. 19.

    Betty Cracker

    Seems significant to me that Trump has said he won’t do his job unless the House stops doing its job. No infrastructure for you!

  20. 20.

    Gravenstone

    Cue the Kabuki political theater. Pelosi goes on record saying something she knows will inflame shithead, just prior to a scheduled meeting with same. No doubt his eruption (to anyone unfortunate enough to be within earshot) about her being mean to him was epic. Then one of his sycophants came up with the brilliant idea to choreograph the tantrum at the outset of this meeting as a response.

  21. 21.

    Adam L Silverman

    @rikyrah: House Homeland Security and House Oversight and Government Reform Committees have the authority to do so.

  22. 22.

    Kraux Pas

    I don’t see anything on Trump’s poster of Mueller investigation stats about the number of convicted criminals…huh.

  23. 23.

    TenguPhule

    So I guess we will have two government shutdowns in 2019.

    Really, how the fuck does anyone think the House can still make a deal with McConnnell and Trump that won’t make people lose their shit?

  25. 25.

    TenguPhule

    @Yutsano:

    I’d love to see various Republicans defend the administration on that. Dead kids vs Party Uber Alles?

    Their defense has been stonewall silence.

  26. 26.

    mere mortal

    “You people know probably better than anybody.”

    God, but his tells are obvious.

  27. 27.

    TenguPhule

    @Betty Cracker:

    Seems significant to me that Trump has said he won’t do his job unless the House stops doing its job.

    “Shame if something tragic were to happen to this very fine country of yours.”

  29. 29.

    jl

    @Brachiator: Maybe Pelosi made some comments that I didn’t hear on the news this morning, but from what I heard Pelosi didn’t say all that much. I don’t see how it was a ‘bombshell’ that Pelosi thinks Trump is engaged in a cover-up, that seems news media sensationalism. Other than that, Pelosi merely reported what everyone knew anyway, that more of the House Dem caucus want formal impeachment hearings to begin, that she would continue a deliberate and cautious approach to investigations and impeachment, and that Trump had a tantrum and walked out of their meeting after letting no one else talk.

    Trump wants everyone to believe that Pelosi is being very mean and unfair to him, and he won’t do his job until she stops. That will be a difficult political strategy to string out for the next 16 months. McConnell can get away with periodic whining like that, but I don’t think the president can.

    So, if this is staged, seems like a flailing, counterproductive, rile his shrinking base strategy, and trying to pull some sympathetic coverage from the media.

  31. 31.

    Kraux Pas

    He said they could not legislate and investigate at the same time. “We’re going to go down one track at a time,” he said.

    Clearly he has not been appraised of all the lovely legislation the D-led house is passing.

    He later said that Democrats need to choose between “investigation” or “investment,” implying that he won’t work with Democrats until investigations into him and his administration are over.

    Or after.

    Schumer: “We came prepared…we were interested, it’s clear the president isn’t” in doing infrastructure, accusing Trump of looking for excuses

    The first umpteenth clue should have been when the Presidency and both houses of the legislature were held by Republicans and nothing was passed.

  32. 32.

    germy

    A software glitch at Deutsche Bank has for almost a decade prevented some potentially suspicious transactions from being flagged to law enforcement authorities, Germany’s biggest bank has discovered.https://t.co/4B3C6DTGhT— Global Financial Integrity (@GFI_Tweets) May 22, 2019

    Riiiight…

  34. 34.

    Kraux Pas

    @germy:

    A software glitch at Deutsche Bank has for almost a decade prevented some potentially suspicious transactions from being flagged to law enforcement authorities, Germany’s biggest bank has discovered.

    A glitch implies it was unintended.

  38. 38.

    patrick II

    We should have Infrastructure Week numbers — like the Super Bowl. This one would be “Infrastructure Week XIII, Trump vs The Coverup” I think.

  39. 39.

    jl

    @germy: Funny that the hank execs transferred, demoed or fired the employees who reported the funny business that the supposed software glitch missed. I guess that was some other kind of innocent glitch in the system.

  40. 40.

    Steve in the ATL

    The President Has Thrown a (Semi-Choreographed) Temper Tantrum

    [emphasis added]

    Semi?! I think not.

  41. 41.

    TenguPhule

    @jl:

    and people are dying for no reason.

    They’re not dying for no reason. They’re dying because they’re being put in Internment camps run by private contractors.

  45. 45.

    Gravenstone

    @germy: Wonder if the programmer left a comment next to the lines of code, “glitch goes here”?

  46. 46.

    TenguPhule

    @Brachiator:

    Weird re-election strategy.

    But makes sense if he’s planning something less democratic then elections to retain power.

    He’s trying to sell a narrative to his supporters. “Its the Democrats fault things are so bad. I alone can fix it!”

  49. 49.

    TenguPhule

    He later said that Democrats need to choose between “investigation” or “investment,” implying that he won’t work with Democrats until investigations into him and his administration are over.

    Investigation it is!

  50. 50.

    Chyron HR

    @rikyrah:

    This is a woman who has raised five children. She don’t have time for grown-azzed men throwing temper tantrums.

    Hey, Trump raised can be blamed for five children, too.

  51. 51.

    TenguPhule

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Being that he had 2 years with a Republican Congress, that approach might be problematic.

    He’s selling this to the same people who blame Clinton for Iraq, Obama for 9/11 and think the ACA is the worst thing that ever happened to their healthcare.

  52. 52.

    jl

    I’d be interested in a front post on media coverage of this.semi-choreographed tantrum. From what I have seen and heard, some of it puts fact that Trump can’t deal with measured criticism and snark from Pelosi. That’s not a good angle for Trump, except among the 35 or so percent who are Trumps rabid dead-ender base.

  53. 53.

    Kay

    But I was told he committed to 2 trillion dollars for infrastructure! What happened?

    He realized he doesn’t have 2 trillion dollars and needs congress to fund it? It dawned on him there’s a “hard part”?

  54. 54.

    MJS

    @TenguPhule: Their defense has actually been, “If you didn’t bring/send your kids on such a dangerous journey, they’d still be alive.” And the heartless Republicans eat that up with a spoon.

  55. 55.

    Kraux Pas

    @Kay: C’mon. He can totally just declare a national emergency and use that to spend 2 trillion dollars on infrastructure. Wouldn’t even be his least legitimate use of this practice.

  56. 56.

    dmsilev

    Tantrum 2 incoming shortly

    New York Passes Bill Giving Congress a Way to Get Trump’s State Tax Returns
    Tax officials would be authorized to hand over his state returns to any one of three congressional committees, opening a new front in a heated battle.

    Even before he was elected president, Donald J. Trump had steadfastly refused to release his federal tax returns, bucking years of tradition among presidential candidates. His intransigence deepened once he entered the White House, defying a congressional subpoena for the tax records.

    Now, however, a nine-page workaround by the New York State Legislature may serve as a way for Congress to get its hands on a trove of Mr. Trump’s tax information.

    On Wednesday, the Democratic-led Legislature passed a bill that would permit New York State tax officials to hand over Mr. Trump’s state returns to any one of three congressional committees. Such returns — filed in New York, the president’s home state and business headquarters — would likely contain much of the same information as the contested federal returns.

  57. 57.

    FelonyGovt

    How long are Republicans going to endorse and excuse this elementary school level behavior? I am getting desperate for the restoration of some dignity to the Presidency.

  58. 58.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    He realized he doesn’t have 2 trillion dollars and needs congress to fund it?

    Trump has been testing Congress’s power of the purse.

    So far the pushback against it hasn’t been encouraging.

    Probably only a matter of time before Mnuchin starts generating Federal credits without Congressional Approval.

  60. 60.

    The Moar You Know

    Pelosi and Schumer were set up.

    Hope they have learned something today.

  61. 61.

    jl

    @Kay: ” But I was told he committed to 2 trillion dollars for infrastructure! What happened?

    He realized he doesn’t have 2 trillion dollars and needs congress to fund it? It dawned on him there’s a “hard part”? ”

    I haven’t read the details of what the Dems proposed, but I have a hunch Trump still wants 2 trillion in funny money that will appear to come out of crony corporate capitalist scams, not real money. And probably, Dems put too much down on paper, which Trumpsters don’t like. From what I’ve read so far, nothing of Kushner’s immigration proposal is actually down on paper, as opposed to BS session beer talk.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    Why can’t he do anything while they’re investigating? Release the tax returns and take that part of the cover up off his plate, right?

    I’d like to see some personal responsibility here. What can Donald Trump do to make his life easier? :)

    He could hire better quality people, for one.

  63. 63.

    TenguPhule

    Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said Wednesday that a confidential IRS memo does not undermine the agency’s justification for denying lawmakers’ request for Trump’s tax returns.

    Appearing in front of a House panel, Mnuchin said the Treasury Department and Department of Justice relied on separate legal reasoning for rejecting the House Ways and Means Committee request for six years of the president’s personal and business financial records.

    A memo originating in the IRS chief counsel’s office, published by The Washington Post on Tuesday, said the “only basis” for denying tax returns to the committee would be invoking executive privilege. The administration has not invoked executive privilege to deny the request for Trump’s tax records.

    Asked by a House Democrat whether the memo contradicts Treasury’s denial of the request, Mnuchin said: “I actually don’t believe that’s the case. . . . That memo is addressing a different issue, and is not addressing the issue that we and the Department of Justice looked at.

    “The legal advice we have relied upon — and I understand there are three branches of government, and when it comes to constitutional issues, there could be different interpretations,” Mnuchin said in response to questions from Rep. Jennifer Wexton (D-Va.).

    /Lips pursed.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @jl:

    The Great Negotiator made an offer and then came back weeks later with a bunch of conditions. He’s a liar. They can’t negotiate with him. No one else can either- look at his foreign policy deals. They never pan out either.

  66. 66.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    Why can’t he do anything while they’re investigating?

    Everyone would be talking to Congress. Who would be left to bring him coffee?

  67. 67.

    Steve in the ATL

    @FelonyGovt:

    How long are Republicans going to endorse and excuse this elementary school level behavior?

    The rich ones: as long as they are getting their tax cuts

    The rest: as long as trump is pwning libtards

  68. 68.

    TenguPhule

    @Steve in the ATL:

    The rich ones: as long as they are getting their tax cuts

    The rest: as long as trump is pwning libtards

    You could have just said forever. Its not like you’re billing us by the word. //

  69. 69.

    Kay

    I think Trump sees what I see, which is that Pelosi hasn’t taken impeachment off the table and if it were off the table she would say so, if only to smooth negotiations. If she were a different person I would think maybe she’s leaving it out there as leverage but I don’t think she operates that way. I think she’s successful because she’s trustworthy.

  71. 71.

    Immannetize

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    I’ve been working on a piece that argues that today, the first strike use of nuclear weapons is a war crime.

    Any ideas if this has already been covered in your community? Thanks, Imm

  72. 72.

    Kay

    @Kraux Pas:

    Do you know how much fencing they have put up with his huge slush fund for his stupid wall? 1.7 miles. One point seven.

    The Builder. He should return that money wherever he stole it from. He’s not competent enough to spend it anyway.

  74. 74.

    Steve in the ATL

    @burnspbesq: reminds me of that law firm that got busted 15? 20? whatever years ago for billing fraud. Their time keeping software had a function called “the goose” which automatically added 15% to each time entry. It did not end well for the firm.

  75. 75.

    H.E.Wolf

    @rikyrah:
    Chairmen Thompson and Cummings are two of the African-American Reps. who are chairing House Committees in this session of Congress.

    Chairwomen Waters (Finance) and Johnson (Science, Space, Technology), and Chairman Scott (Education, Labor) are the other three I know of.

    There are other Chairs of color, but alas I’m on a deadline — can someone else please add the other names?

  76. 76.

    TenguPhule

    Pelosi called the caucus-wide huddle amid increased pressure from some of her members to begin an impeachment inquiry. Monday night, a band of frustrated House Judiciary Committee members — including powerful chairman Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) — confronted Pelosi on her no-impeachment position and encouraged her to green-light an inquiry.

    Pelosi refused, arguing that the caucus is not behind the move and that it would impede other committees in pursuing their investigations.

    I’d probably have more confidence in Pelosi’s refusal if she hadn’t included such a bullshit excuse. If the caucus doesn’t support, then at least let us know the headcount. But claiming that an impeachment inquiry would impede other investigations? That’s flat out wrong.

  78. 78.

    TenguPhule

    @burnspbesq:

    There is most likely a copy of the Federal return attached to the NYS/NYC return.

    NY State can’t release the federal return, that’s still protected by Federal IRS regulations.

  80. 80.

    Gravenstone

    @The Moar You Know: How exactly were they set up? The comments he was using as the focus of his tantrum just came out this morning, a couple of hours ahead of this already scheduled meeting.

  81. 81.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    a) What did Trump’s mother look like? I am betting pretty close to Pelosi.

    b) Did Pelosi tell the entire nation Trump is incapable of an (infrastructure) erection?

  83. 83.

    Kay

    @Kraux Pas:

    U.S. Customs and Border Protection has put up just 1.7 miles of fencing with the $1.57 billion that Congress appropriated last year for President Donald Trump’s wall along the Mexican border, a federal judge was told.
    A lawyer for the U.S. House of Representatives provided the information Tuesday to the judge in Oakland, California, who is weighing requests from 20 state attorneys general and the the Sierra Club to block Trump from using funds not authorized by Congress to build the wall.

  84. 84.

    chopper

    @Kay:

    what happened is he was advised that that a bill that big wouldn’t get past the nuts in his own party. he made a promise he couldn’t possibly keep, so he needs an out.

  86. 86.

    joel hanes

    Isn’t he splendid in his perfect jackassness ?

    The most predictable man in the universe. Utterly reactive, like an oppositional five-year-old boy on whom “reverse psychology” still works, and with no complicated depths, no evidence of a soul.

    Pelosi and the House are going to step on his toes every day, harder and harder. The behavior of the courts suprises and enrages him. He’s going to freak out more and more, grow more defiant, make more and bigger mistakes, cross more lines, break more things, including the Republican Party.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    Chris Cillizza
    ‏Verified account
    @CillizzaCNN
    Follow Follow @CillizzaCNN
    More
    What appears to be happening:
    1. Trump saw Pelosi say that he is engaged in a “cover-up.”
    2. He got mad
    3. He decided to go to the Rose Garden and repeat his “witch hunt” tweets, basically
    4. The infrastructure meeting with Pelosi (and Schumer) is canceled(?)

    They can’t even do a simple timeline. Pelosi said he made rubberstamping NAFTA II a condition and he did that before the other events.

  89. 89.

    The Moar You Know

    How exactly were they set up? The comments he was using as the focus of his tantrum just came out this morning, a couple of hours ahead of this already scheduled meeting.

    @Gravenstone: He would have used any pretext. He wanted to haul them up there so the media would be on hand and then throw his tantrum “no collusion” press conference. He planned this days ago.

    I see the media is already lapping this up like a starving dog going after vomit. Christ, it’s bad enough we gotta fight the GOP, we gotta fight the media every fucking step of the way too.

  92. 92.

    Mary G

    He was involved in “professional wrestling” and put in the WWE Hall of fame in 2013. Today is straight out of the playbook.

  94. 94.

    SRW1

    The President Has Thrown a (Semi-Choreographed) Temper Tantrum

    Save some ink. Make that henceforth a Trumptrum.

  95. 95.

    Kay

    Opponents of abortion rights have a long history of supporting abortion bans with three major exceptions: rape, incest, or when a woman’s life is at risk.
    But, fueled by momentum from the passage of a restrictive abortion law in Alabama, a coalition of anti-abortion rights groups released a letter Wednesday asking Republican officials to “reconsider decades-old talking points” on exceptions to such laws.
    “We understand that issues like rape and incest are difficult topics to tackle; nevertheless, it is our view that the value of human life is not determined by the circumstances of one’s conception or birth,” said a draft of the letter provided to NPR by Students for Life of America, which led the effort.

    Told ya. Today the Federalist Society announced that in order to be consistent, pregnant women really must be prosecuted for pregnancy crimes. This is the fastest slippery slope in history. They’ll be at hangings by Friday.

  96. 96.

    TenguPhule

    Paul Brand
    ✔
    @PaulBrandITV
    Iain Duncan Smith says he thinks Trump now likely to pull his visit, as that week could well be the week of a leadership challenge to May.

    90
    7:07 AM – May 22, 2019

    Lucky Britain. They might get rid of May & Trump at the same time.

  99. 99.

    artem1s

    Well, he finally got to play the role the GOP hired him for. Walk on stage, recite the script prepared for him, throw a hissy fit, fire someone and walk off. Must have been just like the old days on the Apprentice. What complete loser this toad is. Even Raygun and W were better at being puppets than this jackass.

  102. 102.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Good point: trustworthiness is a seriously underrated requirement for successful negotiations. Trump confuses negotiations with dominance displays, as befits a shitgibbon, which is why he’s so often confused to find himself pantsless.

    @chopper: I literally had nightmares about that when I first saw the photos, which I hoped were fake but aren’t. Terrifying.

  103. 103.

    Cacti

    I think I know why he’s having today’s meltdown other than general theatrics.

    The NY assembly just passed that bill to allow Congress to access his state income tax returns for oversight purposes. And no, it’s not specific to him, so it isn’t a bill of attainder.

  104. 104.

    joel hanes

    @laura:

    The House is stepping on his toes, and will proceed to stepping on his feet.

    Trump continually steps on his own dick — no one else needs to do it for him.
    Apparently his supporters love him for it, or something.

    Self-indulgent anecdote :
    I once dated a cocktail waitress for a while, back in the early Pliocene.
    Guys who groped her in the close, semi-dark confines of the club caused her to ‘lose her balance’ and ‘accidentally’ step on the arch of their foot with her high heel.
    Only a few tried it twice, and got to meet the bouncer.

  105. 105.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @joel hanes:
    Charlie Pierce said it best:

    “When the Smithsonian opens its American Museum of Feckless Journalism, the Cillizza exhibit is going to be right there in the lobby, across from the statues of Maureen Dowd and David Brooks.”

    Cilizza also has a high tumbrel number. Maybe not as high as Mrs Greenspan’s, Chuck Phucking Todd and many others, but up there nonetheless.

  107. 107.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Donald Trump needs to be spanked, and sent to bed without his hamberder.

  108. 108.

    joel hanes

    @Betty Cracker:

    Trump confuses negotiations with dominance displays

    Pithy, accurate. I like it. If I steal it, I’ll try to remember to credit you.

  109. 109.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @joel hanes: Someone on Walters’ committee today advised Mnuchin to consult his personal attorney about what charges he might be exposing himself to. I imagined him in jail and felt this spurt of joy.

  110. 110.

    The Moar You Know

    Are you suggesting that Pelosi and Schumer come out of this looking bad? That Trump somehow won the exchange?

    @Omnes Omnibus: No. I’m saying they got used. There was no exchange to win.

  111. 111.

    TenguPhule

    According to the New York Times, Trump’s planned infrastructure meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer lasted just three minutes – CNN said it was five minutes, but either way it clearly wasn’t very long

    Perhaps the Democrats should have brought a copy of the Times with Trump’s picture on the cover to the meeting.

  113. 113.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @chopper: To be fare that’s her in her old age. She looks awfully typically Scots to be honest lol

  114. 114.

    HeleninEire

    @Steve in the ATL: No. You do not attach your Federal return to your state return in NY. There are many “what did you report to the feds?” questions on the NY form, but it is not attached.

    That being said, they talk to each other. I once got am inquiry from the feds about a number I reported. A few weeks later NY asked “Oh hey hi, how’d you answer that fed question?”

  115. 115.

    Kraux Pas

    @Betty Cracker:

    Trump confuses negotiations with dominance displays

    These are best performed by men a third Trump’s age, with no real influence, and…in private.

    Consensually with a safe word, obviously.

  116. 116.

    Ocotillo

    @Yutsano:

    Makes no difference. Their base does not care about “other” human life. Recall Ron Paul being cheered at a Rethug debate saying let the uninsured die.

  117. 117.

    Cacti

    @Kay:

    Well, at least the mask has finally dropped, and they’ve confirmed that they’re objectively pro-rape.

  118. 118.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @germy: Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank have called off their merger talks. (Several links at google)

    Could there be a front page discussion of possible Deutsche Bank shenanigans and the German right’s rise, the rising anti-immigrant sentiment in Germany?? And Merkle’s retirement (rumored?)??

  119. 119.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Cacti: It also means they know they can’t count on even conservative women now. All old stupid white guys all the way down.

  120. 120.

    Cacti

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Arkansas just passed a pro-spousal rape bill, that allows husbands who impregnated their wives through rape the right to sue to stop an abortion.

    Just another day in Taliban controlled America.

  121. 121.

    Annie

    @rikyrah:

    “I’m a mother of five and grandmother of nine. I know a temper tantrum when I see one.” — Nancy Pelosi, last time T**** threw a fit.

    that’s my congresswoman!!

  122. 122.

    Chris Johnson

    For what it’s worth the reaction by Trump and the stuff being shoveled into the #Pelosi hashtag on twitter is how I know that whatever Pelosi is doing, it’s working.

    So, continue. If she wasn’t doing this right they wouldn’t be fighting back as hard. Same with the slow-walking of impeachment inquiries: it looks like that’s working, and again I think it’s because Pence is just as dirty and directly pursuing straight-up impeachment would immediately compromise Pence, removing him as well, which would mean President Pelosi… the one ‘pursuing impeachment’ in the first place, and that’s a set-up for political disastrousness. We would be at war way before she was even sworn in. There’s a bunch of people who would be about as happy with that as we would be with President Bannon, and they’re being armed by Russia.

    Pelosi is right that we have to use the President’s criminality as pressure and not as the intended workings of government. I think they set it up this way on purpose knowing that it was possible to double down on the treason and make any impeachment seem like a lawless coup, even when it was conducted according to law.

    Messy. History from this era will be wild to read about, assuming anyone is left to read it.

  123. 123.

    Kay

    @Cacti:

    20 or more years ago anti-abortion people used to run this tv ad that was probably pretty effective. It was an empty swing on a playground and “choose life” or something equally non-coercive. Have to love that now they have no qualms about bringing the hammer down. Because of course now, under our scheme, rape or incest victims can choose to carry the pregnancy. There are no mandated abortions. They’re not happy until they remove that option. If they don’t trust a woman in that horrible position to make that decision why would they trust her with the baby?

  125. 125.

    Mike in NC

    No doubt all the foreign despots that Fat Bastard dreams of emulating will get a good laugh over his latest display of feces flinging. The Trump Crime Syndicate thought they could play on the world stage the same way they did in Manhattan, but they were mistaken.

  127. 127.

    Yutsano

    @The Moar You Know: @Omnes Omnibus: Jaysus Moar. She’s a fucking nonna. You don’t think she saw right through this little stunt already? She went through with it knowing the media would run with whatever spin but no matter what she comes out looking reasonable and assured. It’s another piece in the puzzle dude. She’s planning.

  128. 128.

    Kay

    @Cacti:

    It’s just shocking, isn’t it? To turn over her body to someone else – like real estate. He has a claim on that plot for a year.

    The woman is the only one who isn’t permitted to choose. He can choose not to bring a lawsuit. They can choose to draft these laws and pass them and enforce them however they want. She has no choice. She’s the inanimate, silent object of these laws. The condition of being pregnant opens her up to all these people’s claims.

  129. 129.

    Amir Khalid

    @Kay:
    You’re never going to understand Trump, if you keep assuming that he thinks like a grownup.

  130. 130.

    Kay

    @Cacti:

    She could divorce the rapist and he would still hold a prior claim on her physical person. He could file from prison- put a lien on the property for the duration. Just appalling and so revealing. We were wrong about them. They’re worse than we imagined in our hysterical female outbursts.

  131. 131.

    Yutsano

    @Kay: Women must be relegated to the status of chattel property. ANYTHING else is unacceptable. And that pesky 19th Amendment? That’s gotta go too. Being able to sign contracts without a husband? Against the natural order of things! Hell some of them won’t be happy until they all get treated like Ferengi women: naked, uneducated, and not allowed in public at all.

  132. 132.

    Kay

    @Amir Khalid:

    I think he has a certain mean-spirited cunning which isn’t IMO related to maturity or even intelligence. I have encountered this in some pretty dumb people. It’s a weird thing, like perfect pitch or something.

  133. 133.

    rikyrah

    @Cacti:

    Lips so pursed:

    Arkansas just passed a pro-spousal rape bill, that allows husbands who impregnated their wives through rape the right to sue to stop an abortion.

  134. 134.

    trollhattan

    @Kay:
    Agreed. He can read a crowd and select the most apt cuts of meat to toss their way, and even the most effective sequence. A convergence of sociopathy and empathy, if you will. He also groks television and how to manipulate and leverage it. One-on-one I think he’s able to read at least some people and use that to his advantage, whether through threatening or cajoling (or both–thrajoling?).

    Clearly the man we needed in these dark times.

  135. 135.

    Kay

    Jake Sherman
    ‏Verified account
    @JakeSherman
    3h3 hours ago
    More
    It really didn’t matter what pelosi said this morning. The White House was saying before today that they weren’t going to present a detailed infrastructure plan, they wanted to cut $1 trillion in spending. Pelosis comment was almost coincidental.

    Entitlements! The low quality Trump hires want your 1300 a month in Social Security to pay for the tax cuts they got and they won’t rest until they get their grubby paws on it. Their constituents don’t have 400 dollars saved to replace their tires but they don’t give a shit. They have once again run up a huge bill they can’t pay so you must sacrifice.

  136. 136.

    john fremont

    @Steve in the ATL: Reminds me of Trump’s father Fred padding expenses onto VA loans after WW2. Congress hauled him in but realized that there were no specific regulations that prohibited him from doing what he and some other developers did. Fred Trump found the loopholes and raked it in.

  137. 137.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Kay: what happens if, while pregnant, the woman moves from shithole red state to paradise blue state, and gets an abortion that is safe and legal?

    Stuff like this is why I don’t do family law!

  139. 139.

    Brachiator

    @jl:

    Trump wants everyone to believe that Pelosi is being very mean and unfair to him, and he won’t do his job until she stops. That will be a difficult political strategy to string out for the next 16 months. McConnell can get away with periodic whining like that, but I don’t think the president can.

    Excellent point. However, Trump is all about pouting and pointing out how mean people are to him. He then boasts about how he is trying to do the job for the people.

    So, if this is staged, seems like a flailing, counterproductive, rile his shrinking base strategy, and trying to pull some sympathetic coverage from the media.

    It is very much staged, like wrestling or a reality show. But his supporters eat it up, and Fox News and right wing dip shits will emphasize how brave Trump is to confront the mean Democrats. We will see the degree to which the media falls for this bullshit. It is obvious political circus (not even good political theater), but again, Trump loves this kind of thing.

    @TenguPhule:

    Weird re-election strategy.

    But makes sense if he’s planning something less democratic then elections to retain power.

    He’s trying to sell a narrative to his supporters. “Its the Democrats fault things are so bad. I alone can fix it!”

    I think you may be right. Trump seems to be trying to stumble clumsily to a more blatant authoritarianism. However, I think Trump tried a version of this game when he shut down the government. This shit backfired on him then. He is getting more unstable. President Goofball. This is not good, but hard to predict the impact that his antics might have on the country.

  140. 140.

    trollhattan

    @AxelFoley:
    Yeah, Nancy (“Who I call ‘Nancy'”) certainly and Chuck, likely suspected he’d do to them what he did to Kim. Maybe they can write him some really lovely, beautiful letters.

    Such a great negotiator and deal-maker.

  142. 142.

    Luthe

    @Kay:

    It’s just shocking, isn’t it? To turn over her body to someone else – like real estate. He has a claim on that plot for a year.

    Once again, a question for the B-J lawyers: is demanding a woman give up her body to a fetus for a year a violation of the Takings Clause? And if it is, does the state have eminent domain over the woman’s body? Because eminent domain = just compensation. Which could get very pricey for the state.

  143. 143.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Luthe:

    is demanding a woman give up her body to a fetus for a year a violation of the Takings Clause?

    If John Roberts thinks so, then yes. If John Roberts doesn’t think so, then no.

  144. 144.

    Kay

    @Luthe:

    I don’t know jack about the takings clause. I do think we’re in uncharted waters though because they are pushing these laws through without any idea how any of this plays out and it isn’t 1850. They’re dealing with a different set of women.

    What Roe really did was make it possible to leave 99% of this up to individuals. They’re turning the whole thing over to courts, which is such a profound and catastrophic mistake – courts don’t even want it. They already have a problem with one of the laws because it has insane sanctions for the “abortionist”. Well, 25% of pregnancy terminations are medicine. The woman administers the drugs to herself. The thing is they have “a person” INSIDE another “person” and there’s just no comparison for that. That’s a one off. Roe was like “this is impossible. Let’s just turn most of it over to women and doctors and stay out of it” – which was the best option. They will find out.

  145. 145.

    J R in WV

    Haven’t read the comments here yet, but in an earlier Thread someone linked to tweets from a guy named Malcolm P Johnson. Down in that twit thread was what they call Threadreader Unroll, which I copied for you guys:

    Profile picture
    Malcolm P. Johnson
    @admiralmpj
    2 days ago, 12 tweets, 2 min read Read on Twitter
    THREAD: I’m not a Lawyer, but I have a particular view when it comes to Impeachment.

    When I worked for Warner Bros. Legal and Business Affairs, we had a simple guideline for pursuing litigation. First, we’d send the offending party a 30 day cease and desist letter… 1/12
    When that didn’t work, we’d send them ANOTHER 30 day cease and desist letter…and if that didn’t work, we’d send a THIRD 30 day cease and desist letter… 2/12
    But on day 91 of that process, we’d initiate litigation.

    Inevitably we’d be in court, and the Judge would ask us, “Okay, but have you given the offending party every chance to comply with your wishes?” 3/12
    And we’d be able to say “Yes, we have your honor. Here is our first 30 day cease and desist, here’s our second and here’s our third. All documented, and transmitted, all ignored by the Offending Party.” 4/12
    Suddenly, we weren’t the ones having to prove anything, it was the guys we were suing. The Judge would look at them, and say “So what about this counselor? Why have you ignored their lawful request??” 5/12
    In terms of Impeachment, we are on the second 30 day cease and desist letter, metaphorically speaking.

    The Democrats are bound for court and are now collecting documentation to show how much the Administration is acting unlawfully. 6/12
    We are going after Tax Returns via Ways and Means.
    We are going after Bank Records via Intelligence and Finance.
    We are after Testimony via Judiciary and Oversight.
    All of which we have a right to.
    All of which have been subpoenaed. 7/12
    So when you see the Chairmen of these various committees “not going fast enough” remember, they are collecting documentation with each of these extended deadlines. 8/12
    When the Democrats face a judge, they’ll be able to say “Look, your Honor, we gave the Administration EVERY CHANCE to comply with the law.”

    What you call slow and ineffective, is what a Lawyer would call crossing every “t” and dotting every “i” before going into court. 9/12
    Because it’s a dead cinch lock that the Judge will rule in our favor once those “t”s & “i”s are taken care of…because what I expect to happen…and what I think every Democrat expects to happen is that Trump will then defy whatever ruling the Judge hands down… 10/12
    …and once that happens, once Trump defies a Federal Judge’s ruling (which I expect to happen 100%), well the pressure to impeach won’t be on the Democrats. It’ll be on the Republicans. 11/12
    So, if you’re patient, this is going to play out the way you want. Trump can’t help himself. 12/12 END

    I like this perspective, and thought Mr Johnson wouldn’t mind this being shared with attribution. Nancy “Smash” Pelosi seems to be requiring her leaders to dot the I’s and cross the T’s as part of moving forward. As Mr Johnson says, that’s a good thing!

    I heard someone on MSNBC (I think) say the Trump enjoys being angry, and enjoys scaring people. Not going to work with Madam Speaker Pelosi!

    Now I’m going to read everyone else’s comments about Trump.

  146. 146.

    Luthe

    @Steve in the ATL: I want to see someone try the argument. I mean, a woman can’t be compelled to donate organs (even post-mortem) or donate blood without her consent, so how is forced occupation of the uterus any different?

    Also said argument sidesteps any bullshit about whether the “right to privacy” exists in the Constitution, since conservatives like to pretend it doesn’t exist.

  147. 147.

    jl

    @Brachiator: I believe, and hope, that a historic level of turnout for 2020 would overwhelm any Trumpster attempts to fiddle with the election. And it is interesting that 41 percent seems to have become to new 27 percent. In poll after poll on possible 2020 general election match-ups, Trump can’t break 41 percent. That is quite a hole, and if Trump wants to dig himself deeper from where he is now, that is OK.

  149. 149.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kay:

    It’s their willingness to trample on any social mores necessary to get what they want. They think that those of us who follow the social rules are suckers who deserve to be taken advantage of, and they count on our unwillingness to make a scene to get away with it.

    See also, my late brother’s estranged wife showing up at his house with a U-Haul six hours after he died in it expecting to take whatever she wanted out of it.

  150. 150.

    James E Powell

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Are you suggesting that Pelosi and Schumer come out of this looking bad? That Trump somehow won the exchange?

    Probably only saw the FOX coverage.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    @Mnemosyne:

    I just think Trump underestimates Pelosi. Her entire job is negotiating. For decades. With a hugely varied group of huge ego people with all kinds of interests and their own constituencies, so they come in there with “MY district needs”. They’re all legitimate as far as “elected”. How many big, flouncing, dramatic exits has she seen?
    Experience matters.

  152. 152.

    burnspbesq

    @Steve in the ATL:

    what happens if, while pregnant, the woman moves from shithole red state to paradise blue state, and gets an abortion that is safe and legal?

    That won’t be allowed. The next step is that pregnant women will be made wards of the state, and housed in state facilities for the duration, for the protection of the precious thing within.

  155. 155.

    J R in WV

    @TenguPhule:

    They’re not dying for no reason. They’re dying because they’re being put in Internment camps run by private contractors.

    Let me fix this for you:

    “They’re dying because they’re being put in Internment Concentration Camps run by private contractors.”

    Maybe more accurate now.

    ETA: Maybe “Death Camps” would be most accurate?

  157. 157.

    Captain C

    @jl:

    Trump wants everyone to believe that Pelosi is being very mean and unfair to him, and he won’t do his job until she stops.

    Even in this day and age of both-siderist media and Murc’s Law (that only Democrats/liberals have agency), the toddler-level I’m-holding-my-breath-until-I-get-my-way approach might be a bridge too far. Of course, we’ll have Bobo and the like tut-tutting at the unreasonableness of both sides, but especially the Democrats, who are just meanies. If Bobo actually raises his kids according to these principles, they’re (the kids) guaranteed assholes. Or maybe Bobo’s just another IOKIYAR fraud who lives differently than the principles he promotes on the page. I’m going with the latter, or maybe both.

  159. 159.

    Captain C

    @MJS:

    “If you didn’t bring/send your kids on such a dangerous journey, they’d still be alive.”

    I’m pretty sure the reason most of them left in the first place was fear for the lives of their children in their hometowns.

  160. 160.

    J R in WV

    @Immannetize:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    I’ve been working on a piece that argues that today, the first strike use of nuclear weapons is a war crime.

    Any ideas if this has already been covered in your community? Thanks, Imm

    Check out my comment in the previous thread, ‘Article In Foreign Policy And Chernobyl Questions ” Comment # 48, which goes there. IANAL … Tried to link to the comment, don’t know how to do that yet.

  162. 162.

    Bill Arnold

    @Kraux Pas:

    A glitch implies it was unintended.

    Well, no. Glitches can be induced/injected/etc deliberately, though not generally by the affected entity. That one is probably more a flaw, perhaps deliberate, perhaps deniable.

  163. 163.

    J R in WV

    @trollhattan:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    You guys are welcome. Someone else posted a link into it, I just cut and pasted the unrolled thread…

    It also seems to explain a lot of Pelosi’s and her leadership’s slow but certain strategy of moving one step at a time, committee by committee, subpoena by subpoena, one chunk of evidence or witness at a time.

    That’s how you build a complex building, starting with digging for the footers and trenching for utilities, then building forms and tying rebar, finally pouring concrete. You’ve spent a ton of money, busted ass, and don’t have any building yet. But skip a step and you never get a good structure.

  164. 164.

    debbie

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I don’t think Trump would go that far. He would want you to believe he would, but he doesn’t have the balls to pull it off.

  165. 165.

    Dan B

    @Kay: Somrthing about “hysterical female outbursts” tickles my id. I’m not sure how to incorporate it in a phrase, or shade, but something along the lines of; “My hysterical female outburst is superior to your chest pounding tantrum, troglodyte!” Maybe switch tantrum with ‘faceplant’?

    And I do understand the derivation of hysterical. But I feel it doesn’t have quite the power it once did. Too many people are wise to the misogyny. Although more widespread wisdom would be a very good thing.

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