In a recent thread, Anne Laurie expressed a wish that I share: that engaging in blatant hypocrisy was physically painful. In that ideal world, posting these tweets yesterday evening would have caused Mango Mussolini to writhe in agony and bellow like a ruptured wildebeest:
Politico managed to cover that pair of tweets without mentioning that racism is as central to Trump’s brand as the “golden arches” are to McDonald’s. It also neglected to mention that Trump called for the execution of the Central Park 5 and continued to advocate for their lynching even after the men were exonerated in a court of law.
It’s weird how impervious Beltway hacks are to the siren call of “both sides” when there’s a “Dems in Disarray” angle to exploit. The Politico piece notes that some Democrats have problems with Biden’s work on the crime bill, specifically 2020 rivals Harris and de Blasio, who called it “a huge mistake.”
As we now know, Russian trolls operating fake accounts pushed the “super predator” line relentlessly against Hillary Clinton in 2016 and blamed her for the crime bill, even though she wasn’t a senator back then and was thus not eligible to vote on it. Was that line of attack effective? I don’t know.
I’m not making excuses for Biden, but it’s a lot easier to criticize that bill in hindsight, and if Twitter had been a thing in 1994, Trump would have been one of the biggest loudmouths on the platform, blasting the crime bill as weak sauce. That said, Biden will have to account for his advocacy and vote to an electorate that includes many voters who either weren’t alive in 1994 or were too young to remember the prevailing sense at the time that crime was spiraling out of control. Will that matter? I don’t know.
Trump’s astoundingly cynical and hypocritical tweets signal his 2020 “strategy,” which is the same strategy he’s employed every minute of his worthless public life: divide and conquer through a boundless capacity for projection and shamelessness and a willingness to accept help from malignant actors (including foreign autocrats) who want to weaken and destroy the country.
And Politico’s hackery in this instance is yet another signal that the Beltway media will be as worthless and destructive in 2020 as it was four years back. So, we’re on our own, with the stakes even higher.
I’m not sure how we (as a party) address it. At the risk of igniting a salvo of anti-Buttigieg trollery, here’s a clip of a recent interview in which Buttigieg addresses Trump’s “strategy” vis-à-vis opponents and how to push back on it, which he called a “crazy uncle management” approach:
TL;DR summary: call out Trump’s lies and point out when he’s wrong, but don’t let him make everything about himself because attention of any kind feeds Trump’s gigantic ego and media dominance. Maybe that’s the answer, but I’m not so sure. Whether the person Trump is lying about in any given comment punches back or not, the media hacks will broadcast the lies.
Toward the end of the clip, Costa (WaPo interviewer and former NR wingnut) asks Buttigieg if Cadet Bonespurs should have gone to Vietnam, and Buttigieg gives a pretty good answer:
“If he were a conscientious objector? I’d admire that. But this is someone who — I think it’s fairly obvious to most of us — took advantage of the fact that he was the child of a multimillionaire in order to pretend to be disabled so that somebody could go to war in his place. And I know that that dredges up old wounds from a complicated time during a complicated war, but I’m also old enough to remember when conservatives talked about character as something that mattered in the presidency.”
That’s a response with a point that is larger than Trump. Maybe that’s an effective approach. I honestly don’t know. It seems like a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation, as Hillary Clinton found out the hard way. She focused on policy and took on Trump, but people (including Buttigieg!) interpret her loss as a failure to follow their own as-yet untested prescription for defeating the Tang Tyrant.
My guess is there’s no magic formula, and whoever wins the Democratic Party’s nomination will win the general election and be hailed in the media as a genius for their approach to dealing with Trump. But the truth will be that all but the hardcore cultists are just sick and tired of the Ochre Ogre and are ready to change the fucking channel already.
Flying Saucers Redux
James E Powell
Democrats need attack dogs who are not candidates for higher office. They have a few, they need more & better ones. I think it’s Kevin Drum who calls this the hack gap. They need to do nothing but extreme attacks. They need to do it every time anyone asks them any question about anything.
Call Trump and the Republicans traitors, liars, crooks, sex offenders. Every time on TV call him president tax cheat. Tell everyone he has to prove himself innocent. Remind the press/media that’s the rule they imposed on the Clintons and they have to do the same here or admit they are Republican propagandists.
Shalimar
Donald Trump wasn’t just the child of a multi-millionaire when he avoided the draft. Daddy had already gifted him so much money that he was a multi-millionaire himself before he even started his first job.
Gin & Tonic
@James E Powell:
A “Democratic strategist” who goes on TV to do that will get to do it precisely one time, then will never be invited back on air again.
Cacti
@James E Powell:
Agreed. Post-LBJ, the Dems have gotten soft at the bare knuckle political game that they used to dominate. Somewhere along the line, the party brass decided it was unseemly to fight dirty, and ceded that ground almost entirely to Republicans. Part of the reason they hated the Clintons so intensely is that the Clintons fought back, and they weren’t used to that anymore.
stinger
Has a sitting president ever before publicly insulted and childishly name-called a living former vice president? I think I know the answer.
And did Putin’s Puppet twat anything at all yesterday about recognizing America’s war dead?
Kay
I just don’t see Donald Trump’s political advice influencing the Dem base. It’s a Democratic Party primary. They’ll ask Biden about the crime law, and also Bernie, because Bernie voted for it too, but I don’t see them turning to Donald Trump to tell them how to vote in a D primary.
Trump also claimed he knocked Warren out with his stupid nickname and media bought that too, and she’s been slowly rising in D polls. He may have actually increased her chances. Warren, and would-be Warren supporters fucking loathe him. He probably drove more Democrats to Warren than he put off.
Cacti
@stinger:
Has a sitting President ever wished the Japanese Navy a happy Memorial Day before?
Kay
Trump isn’t really directing these tweets to voters. He’s directing them to political media, because he knows that if he tweets about it, they’ll cover it.
THAT may influence the D primary, because when it’s laundered thru political media it becomes “news”.
stinger
@James E Powell: The white males running for the Dem nomination should all drop out and take on the attack dog role. Except for Biden. He should drop out, but he’s too concerned with praising Republicans that he should focus his energy and efforts on veterans and active duty families.
stinger
@Cacti: Good lord, really? LOLOLOL Hilariously wrong on so many levels. (It’s laugh or cry with me.)
Omnes Omnibus
IIRC that bill was supported by the CBC at the time. Twenty-five years ago was a very different time and anyone who wants to discuss 1990s crime legislation honestly needs to acknowledge that. I remember being told that I did not understand how things were in inner cities and that my opposition to this bill and the subsequent AEDPA was a consequence of my mushy-headed liberalism.
waspuppet
It’s weird how impervious Beltway hacks are to the siren call of “both sides” when there’s a “Dems in Disarray” angle to exploit.
“Both sides” has never meant “both sides.” “Both sides” means “When a Republican does something fascist, racist or otherwise un-American we have to find a Democratic example of the same thing, and if we can’t we have to invent one, because otherwise we get angry tweets and phone calls and suspicious packages.”
When a Democrat does something stupid and wrong, “Both sides” does not apply.
Kay
I also think we’re seeing more and more of Ivanka and Kushner’s influence – they believe they are in tune with the Democratic electorate based upon their phony public personas as NOT Republicans. They also believe they are wildly popular and I haven’t see a shred of evidence to indicate that.
tokyokie
@Kay: I seriously doubt that anybody who finds witty the Native American slur der Trumpenführer employs in regard to Warren would ever vote for her.
mrmoshpotato
@Gin & Tonic:
Exactly. As driftglass put it back in February 2018, “There are a very large number of Liberals who have been warning about what was going on inside the GOP with great precision and predictive accuracy for decades.
These Liberals are effectively embargoed from the media.”
Ocotillo
Let’s not overthink this. The same campaign that Hillary Clinton ran in 2016 could be ran again only changing the nominee and the Democrats should be fine in regards to taking back the executive branch.
Clinton was a unique candidate in that there had been a 30 year jihad against her ran by (correctly), in her words, a vast right wing conspiracy.
She had been smeared for so long that she had unique vulnerabilities that almost all Democratic candidates will not have this time around. Make no mistake, the machine, augmented with the Russians and other bad actors will begin an endless smear against whoever the nominee is.
Is our media learning? Likely no but there are positive signs out there too like the dispensing of the drunk Nancy video. There are also failures like BC cites with Politico above.
Every day, I shake my head and fail to understand how something like 40% of the voting public can support this idiot but have to acknowledge that by and large, they are brainwashed and being sucked into a cult.
Mandalay
@James E Powell:
I agree with that.
Although I found former Rep. Alan Grayson pretty obnoxious at times, he might be useful in that role if he was willing. The dude could respond to whatever was thrown at him without hiding behind talking points, and he had a lot of honey badger in him.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
I know, right? This is the magic wand theory of the media.
West of the Rockies
I heard Pete speak, heard his voice, for the first time in the above clip. He reminds me of Carl Sagan (in a good way). I don’t want him to be president, not yet anyway. I hope Beto runs for some other office, too. Anyone, however, who can beat Trump, besides Tulsi or St. Bernard, wil get my enthusiastic support. I hope it is Harris or Warren. I hope Castro and Inslee’s voices are heard on the subjects they most clearly represent.
brantl
Ochre ogre is a little obscure, but Tang tyrant? That’s a thing of beauty (the phrase, not the tyrant).
Jerzy Russian
Also, too, add stupidity. I have got an idea for a swarm of robots that will give a kick in the ass (or a knee to the groin, the plans are not finalized) to anyone who said something stupid or hypocritical. Given the widespread nature of these afflictions, a huge army will be needed. Thus a large Kickstarter campaign is needed. Possible ways to save money: (a) have the robots beam to where they are needed (saves travel time, but necessitates the development of transporter technology at an unknown cost), or (b) assign robots only to members of the press.
zhena gogolia
I think a lot of the people who dismiss him have never actually listened to him speak. He’s very effective.
Harris is my candidate, but I’m open to everyone but TG and BS. I’m actually quite fond of Michael Bennet.
zhena gogolia
@Jerzy Russian:
Sign me up for your newsletter.
Shana
@stinger: I think he wished the Japanese a happy Memorial Day. Really, I saw a clip.
And I see Cacti got there first.
Kylroy
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, I was a teenager at the time, but I don’t remember there being significant pushback from the AA community at the time. Inner cities were being largely ignored by police, people assumed that introducing them would establish some order – they just didn’t know how oppressive it would be.
SiubhanDuinne
@stinger:
Yes. He tweeted a photo of himself glowering at a wreath.
MattF
Two notes in passing:
1) So, maybe, pardoning war criminals on Memorial Day isn’t such a wonderful idea after all? Tsk, imagine that.
2) Dems are always in disarray, but Pelosi’s view always ends up prevailing. Why is that, ya think?
opiejeanne
@stinger: I read that today he wished the Japanese a happy Memorial Day.
I wish I were joking.
schrodingers_cat
Did Biden vote yes on IIRIRA?Whoever the D candidate is needs to give voters an ideological and moral alternative to the Rs. If they try to be R-lite, they will end up where Rahul Gandhi has. I want a candidate who will stand up for me, not one who wants to link hands and sing songs with those who want to kill me. I will make up my mind after the debates but Biden does not enthuse me with his talk of how one can work with Rs. A statement that cannot be supported by data for the last decade if not more.
James E Powell
@Gin & Tonic:
That’s why they all need to do it. And they need to ramp up the social media along the same lines. A Democratic Drudge or two would be nice.
James E Powell
@stinger:
You had me at drop out.
Mike in NC
The obsequious American news media has always been for sale to the highest bidder. These days that’s the Kochs, the Mercers, Adelson, Trump himself and a host of other far right wing players. Don’t see that changing one bit in the near term.
rikyrah
Maybe if they hadn’t spent all 2016 putting the crime bill on Hillary, who didn’t write it , nor voted on it, and none on Bernie, who actually did…
But,they didn’t, and Hillary still won the nomination ??
We have already litigated the Crime Bill….next issue, please
https://twitter.com/itgurl_29/status/1133216440184713216
opiejeanne
@MattF: Did the idiot pardon those war criminals as threatened? I have been out of the loop for a couple of days, on purpose.
rikyrah
Three words:
CENTRAL?PARK?FIVE?
rikyrah
The Black community already litigated the Crime Bill.
If you think that the Crime Bill will count more than 8 years of loyalty to #44….
You are delusional.
mrmoshpotato
@James E Powell:
Seconded, but Wilmer should fuck off back to Vermont.
Baud
Joe Falco
I hope that’s the case, Betty. I’m afraid the truth is closer to “Republicans will vote for Republicans no matter how awful the candidate.”
JGabriel
“Sleepy Joe Biden”?
When are we all going to start calling Trump “Demented Donald”? Or “Donny Dementia”?
It has consonance, alliteration, and associates Demented Donny with his obviously incipient, and rapidly moving from incipient to increasingly manifest, senile dementia.
MattF
@opiejeanne: I haven’t seen any further news about it. I’m guessing ‘pissing off the libtards’ was good enough for grins and giggles.
Brachiator
I’m a simple guy. A popular vote win and an electoral college vote loss, with a fair amount of interference. I’m not interested in anyone’s long blather on why Clinton “lost.” These dopes need to focus on what the Democrats need to do to win.
Empty wild ass speculation. Trump stands a moderate chance to win re-election based on a fairly good economy, the promise of more tax cuts, and people bamboozled into thinking that we are safe from Mooslims and UFOs.,
The Democrats have a lot to press Trump and the GOP on. Health care, immigration, climate change, foreign policy, general incompetence, reproductive rights, consumer protection, tax reform. I don’t know that “sick and tired” will be enough to move people.
tobie
Democrats have a few candidates running over 65, and in all cases they will have votes and positions from the 1980s and 1990s that they now regret. Biden has the 1994 crime bill, the bankruptcy bill, and the Anita Hill hearings; Warren has the fact that she was a Republican throughout the Reagan years until she was 47; Bernie has…well don’t get me started. It’s fair game to ask them about their past views but if they disavow them and show that they’ve disavowed them, that’s enough for me, at least as we battle the rising tide of fascism.
I liked this response to Trump from another candidate this weekend on his trade policy: “What we see right now is another example of Pres. Trump being both the arsonist who created this problem in the first place and the firefighter who wants the credit for addressing it through this bailout.” Normally I hate when politicians have to do media analysis but since Trump is a media phenomenon, it might be necessary.
StringOnAStick
@Joe Falco: Of the three R’s I am related to, they will vote R no matter what, probably even if it is plainly and irrefutably known that Putin wants the Tang Tyrant. One of them is my dad, a Bircher from way back and now completely plugged into FOX, the others are my Christianist sisters who are single issue voters (abortion), though one is about to lose her son to a brain cancer from serving in the military in Iraq, but that probably won’t sway her either because babeez.
Of the people that I know who bought all the Bernie was Robbed crap, all but one are completely over him and have moved on to other candidates. The remaining one moved to India to Find Herself amidst the “beautiful chaos” and I doubt she’ll be back in time to vote or will have her act together enough to vote absentee since her vote for the Saint of VT was her first ever at age 40. I wonder how many BS voters were first timers and if he doesn’t get anywhere quickly they may just check right back out again.
cckids
@James E Powell:
This would actually be the perfect role for Biden. I wish he’d see it too. He’d get access to the press many other D’s wouldn’t.
Brachiator
@JGabriel:
I think that Trump watches Disney’s “Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs” every night for inspiration.
The Moar You Know
It is a genuinely lonely and weird experience being the only person posting on this blog who is an out-and-out Biden fan.
Kay
@tokyokie:
Would the GOP base have listened to Obama if he had weighed in on their primary? Why would the Dem base listen to Trump? He’s a far Right Republican President.
James E Powell
@cckids:
Agree completely. He would also be a source for stories about McConnell, Ryan, and the Republicans’ bullshit during the Obama years. Democrats need to make the argument that it is not possible to work with these Republicans and if you want anything different you must elect Democrats. Biden has the stories and we know he can tell them in a way that is pleasing to the average person and the Beltway Courtiers.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
What do the other candidates say?
I guess that Biden is trying to sound optimistic. Voters often express frustration that Washington “stop fighting” and do some bipartisan dance. How far will any candidate get if they tell the hard truth that permanent GOP obstructionism will block anything that the Democrats propose unless they win a majority in both houses?
And Biden ain’t my candidate. But he is doing well, even if only because of past association with Obama and name recognition. I don’t know. Maybe people also perceive him to be more honest and decent than Trump.
Sab
@Brachiator: I think he’s thinking of the sandwich.
seaninclt
Having talked to a bunch of people this holiday weekend at various events, almost no one I talked to is paying attention to this stuff. This is people for both ideological sides. The overriding theme was 1) trump is a fuckin joke, 2) the GOP is awful and 3) most haven’t really tuned into this yet since they don’t want to jump back into the swamp that US politics.
Chief Oshkosh
@cckids: What would “Attacker Joe” look like? Joe Biden attacking a Republican just ain’t gonna happen. He’s from the “strongly-worded letter” camp — at best.
Joe Biden is a good-time Charlie. In some eras, that works. Not right now, though.
gene108
@James E Powell:
Our voters do not react to the same stimuli Republican voters do. If we did, we would be Republicans.
An example, the NJ state legislature proposed retaking control of drawing legislative districts, from the non-partisan committee that does this now, in order to stack districts in the Democrats favor.
Democratic voters pushed back on their legislators, because we like the idea of non-partisan legislative districts, and our idea of a free and fair election is that it should give either side a fair chance at winning.
Name calling will not work, because we don’t need to resort to name calling. The facts are on our side.
Just hammer the point home that Republicans Presidents have been corrupt, since Nixon. Make it so that, when people think of Republican Presidents their first thought will be corruption.
Brachiator
@StringOnAStick:
Interesting question. An indirect answer:
How does this look for 2020?
Even though I think that Sanders will fade in the end, he still appeals to some potential voters.
JPL
@opiejeanne: lol I did see that.
trollhattan
@opiejeanne:
Gee, you mean he didn’t do it from the Arizona Memorial? Missed opportunity.
Kent
@James E Powell:
This should be the role of some of the Congressional investigators and back benchers.
Get in front of the TVs and talk shows every day talking about Trumps criminality and lack of character and every damn thing they can think of that might stick. That is EXACTLY how the GOP would be playing it.
Baud
@Brachiator:
Doesn’t make me think the kids are alright.
Ruckus
@Ocotillo:
How many of them belong to what are the effectively religious cults? And those religious cults are aligned with the conservative political positions.
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator:
You must be new here.
@tobie: Good point about politicians being forced to do media analysis. It may be unavoidable in this environment.
stinger
@James E Powell:
That too. But on the D side, only a white male can play the attack dog role. Ann Coulter and Diamond and Silk can bring the nasty, but if it were Stacey Abrams or Julian Castro…? Absolutely slaughtered by media and social media alike.
Jeffro
@The Moar You Know: I’m a fan, so I can join you at least halfway. =)
Kay
As true now as it was in 2016. The one and only question is whether it works again.
I don’t know, but if I were Biden I would focus on his strength with older voters. That’s a perfectly legit way to win an election. There’s nothing “better” about one group of voters as against another if it’s a vote total we’re after. If he’s weak with liberals/younger voters well, go with his strength. It’s not really “done” in Democratic politics- no one says “older voters prefer me and they’re my base constituency” but there’s no reason they should be excluded as a legit group.
Mandalay
@schrodingers_cat:
But absolutely nobody is doing that. Or am I missing your point?…
Brachiator
@Baud:
I think their enthusiasm is noteworthy, especially something like this:
The Democrats need to tap into the enthusiasm of people who will become eligible to vote when the primaries and election roll around. And some of these folks are not just super duper hard core Wilmer supporters.
And there is this:
I may not agree with their choice of candidate, but I appreciate that they appear to be engaged by the political campaign and are not just sitting back, apathetic, not caring.
Hob
Hey Donnie. You know who you could have a nice fight with about the crime bill? As in, someone who was going around saying how awesome it was, and how Joe Biden sucks because even Biden doesn’t understand how awesome the crime bill was, two fucking weeks ago? Rudy fucking Giuliani.
TenguPhule
@Ocotillo:
Uh no. All of the political advisors who worked on her campaign should have been run out of town on a rail, tarred and feathered.
Those are the same fucking hacks who never ever fucking learn a lesson from any election.
Dorothy A. Winsor
In an earlier thread, Mary G (I think) brought up comments she’d seen from four election experts predicting Trump would win reelection. Josh Marshall talks about what I think must be one of the things Mary saw. Marshall says those predictions are based on history. Incumbency is a strong predictor. So is a good economy. But Trump is very unpopular despite the economy. So Marshall says he doesn’t think that prediction model is accurate in this case.
TenguPhule
@trollhattan:
Why do you hate us here so much? //
stinger
@The Moar You Know: Can you give your reasons? I won’t bore you with why I don’t support him, as you’ve probably heard and dismissed them all already. But I hope you won’t say it’s because “he can beat Trump” — no one can possibly know that at this point, so it’s an insufficient reason to be all-in for Biden. I hope you also won’t say “he can work across the aisle”, because unless we can oust McConnell, NO ONE can work across the aisle.
TenguPhule
@gene108:
If this were true we’d have had Presidents Gore, Kerry and Hillary Clinton.
Jeffro
@Ocotillo:
This is true and yet she STILL won the third-most popular votes of any presidential candidate in history. It’s one of the reasons I’m actually glad that our field of candidates is so large…it looks like the GOP slime machine will be waiting for quite some time to get focused on a particular candidate or two. Hell, they seem to spend half their time trying to knock AOC down a peg, only to get kicked in the junk time and again.
I initially mis-read this that the brainwashed 40% support trumpov AND acknowledge that they’re in a cult. Come to think of it, most of them (most of the ones I talk to, anyway, which is no large data set) actually do acknowledge being ‘all in’ on their guy. It’s like they know they are brainwashed and just don’t care. Hate is a helluva drug, I guess
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
Sorry, I have no faith in a man who still thinks its possible to be bipartisan with Russian backed Nazis.
Roger Moore
@Chief Oshkosh:
I don’t think that’s quite true. Remember, for instance, that Biden came up with the “Noun, verb, 9/11” quip about Rudy Giuliani, which was devastatingly effective. I think that kind of humor has an important place in dealing with Trump. Being nasty the way he is will be problematic, but being actually funny can do a lot to cut through the media bullshit.
Sergio Lopez-Luna
@James E Powell: The “Hack Gap” exists, not because there are no liberals out there that provide well written commentary on GOP fuckery, but because the “Liberal Media” does not give them a forum…
FelonyGovt
I’m heading for the California Democratic Convention later this week as a proxy. I think 20 or more of the Presidential candidates will be there. Looking forward to it.
Baud
@Brachiator:
Engaged in a cult more than in the country. O prefer the silent majority.
Kay
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I think he is the favorite to win, though. It’s fine- it doesn’t mean everyone should quit and just hand it to him and a lot of Democratic politicians don’t agree with me or they wouldn’t have jumped in- they would have waited for an election without an incumbent, but Trump is the favorite based on incumbency and the economy.
I think we should all say it. It’ll drive him crazy because it sets high expectations. If we beat him it will be more fun :)
All our candidates are the scrappy underdogs. I’m fine with that perception.
Sergio Lopez-Luna
@Kay: Michelle Alexander, author of “The New Jim Crow” was the first one the tie the 1994 crime bill and the term “Super Predators” to Hillary Clinton…
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
I’m tired this morning. I meant to say that I was offering “empty wild ass speculation.” Totally botched the self-deprecation.
James E Powell
@Ocotillo:
They are not brainwashed. They are proudly ignorant hateful bigots.
Chyron HR
@Kay:
HOW DARE YOU
BERNIE WAS A CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER
AND JOHN LEWIS BETTER ENDORSE HIM THIS TIME OR ELSE
CarolDuhart2
@Kent: There’s that business of actually getting on tv long enough to make the point. What helps Republicans is that they aren’t completely reliant on the mainstream media to get their message out. We have a few liberal shows, but we need more, and that means some mega-millionaires have to buy a few more radio stations and a few tv stations and perhaps really invest in online radio.
Now, we do have some podcasts, but podcasts aren’t listened to by the general public that much or the less than politically involved.
A lot of the online left are baffled by Biden. What a lot of people don’t realize is that many people see Biden as sane and good. Yes, he’s old. Yes, he may be a throwback in some ways. But he’s sane, and a lot of voters want that. Plus, he’s already been vetted by the strictest vetters in the business, Obama’s. If there was something truly problematic, Obama would never have let him on the ticket.
Another Scott
ICYMI, BBC News:
Amnesty, SPLC, Oxfam, etc., etc. It’s horrible and inexcusable that organizations that are supposed to exemplify the best of humanity too often have horrible office politics and working conditions. Maybe requiring ~ 75% women directors is a way to start to fix the problem, maybe.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
@Sergio Lopez-Luna:
Right, and it creates a legit dilemma for those on the Left, right? Because it really does play right into Trump’s strategy. That’s not their fault but it is their problem, because it’s true. Their motives don’t matter to Trump. It helps him and that’s all he cares about. I get why they would object to being told that because how to criticize without helping Trump? But the fact is it does help Trump, because he immediately seizes on the criticism and uses it against his opponent. It’s all he does, really. He has no Plan B. He hopes to exploit divisions in the Democratic Party the same way he exploits divisions everywhere else. It’s how he succeeds. Labor unions call it “slice and dice” which always seemed like the best description to me- if Democrats fracture he’ll win again. He can’t win any other way. Democrats biggest vulnerability is they don’t hold together.
MattF
@Brachiator: Also known as ‘onageric estimates’.
PJ
@The Moar You Know: So you’re are the one responsible for him polling at 38% (22% ahead of his nearest challenger, Sanders)!
Kay
@Chyron HR:
I would suggest that we have skewed priorities for law enforcement and that is has harmed crime-fighting. We have an appalling low murder clearance rate in this country. We’re not solving crimes. Perhaps if we stopped arresting so many people we could focus on the really dangerous ones. Black people don’t want to be murdered any more than white people do. We built up this huge criminal justice system and still a lot of the really bad criminals are getting away. That suggests the problem isn’t “more law enforcement” – it’s dumb use of law enforcement resources. Why is our clearance rate 30 or 40%? That’s terrible. Take the big machine and put them to solving assault and rapes and robbery and murder. Take them off the “harassing black people” beat.
trollhattan
@FelonyGovt:
As much as I’d like to think of this as an embarrassment of riches, I can’t help but think we have 2x or perhaps even 3x too many candidates. Here’s hoping the list gets drastically winnowed, and soon.
Roger Moore
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
And he has a good case. Those same methods predicted the Republican would win the two party vote share something like 54-46, while Trump actually lost it 49-51. That’s kind of difference should make anyone question the utility of the model when dealing with Trump. Or, as Nate Silver would say, those kinds of models are great if you have no other information about the election, but they’re nowhere near as good as polling information if you have it.
PJ
@CarolDuhart2: The online left has, so far, never been a factor in getting a Democrat elected (though possibly they were a factor in depressing turnout for Hillary). That may change, but the fact is, most voters have only a minimal acquaintance with what the online left is saying. (According to this article, 24% of adult Americans “use” Twitter (not sure if that means they tweet or they just occasionally read what someone posts on Twitter): https://blog.hootsuite.com/twitter-statistics/, as opposed to 68% usage for Facebook.)
Kay
@Chyron HR:
For police to be seen as legitimate they have to solve cases. They have to find murderers. People are like “I got pulled over 4 times last year on the turnpike but you have a 40% clearance rate for violent crime?” They understandably see that as not a lot of benefit for them. Maybe make Job One violent crime again? Instead of fine-collecting?
The Moar You Know
@Another Scott: The three non-profits I deal with routinely are all headed by women.
Two of them are places I wouldn’t work for even if they were offering a million a year and six months vacation out of every twelve. One of them is headed by one of the worst human beings I’ve ever met.
The third is pretty OK.
That’s a shit rate even for anecdata.
There’s no magic gender or race wand you can wave at businesses to make them OK. They either are or not, and given that ALL of them are started to make money for someone, odds are that they’re just not going to be filled with decent people at the top. Given that non-profits are now the #1 money-maker that involves people making millions while paying no taxes, I expect that ratio to get far worse in the next decade rather than better.
StringOnAStick
@Jeffro:
I heard an interview with a 72 year old farmer who is getting creamed by Tang Tyrant’s trade war with China. The guy still supports him though and when pressed on why, he tossed out the “intellectual property” excuse. My thought was “gee, what a unique to spell ‘I hate non-whites'”, like some elderly farmer in Iowa gives a shit about intellectual property issues with China.
Gex
@MattF: I will at least take some satisfaction from the fact that the recipient got used as a pawn. I wonder if he really thought he was going to be pardoned?
Omnes Omnibus
@Chief Oshkosh: Actually, that is complete BS. Biden played the traditional VP role of attack dog during both of Obama’s campaigns. He smiled when he said stuff and used words like malarkey, but he is perfectly capable of attacking
Roger Moore
@Kay:
A huge part of the problem is that minorities have a well justified mistrust of law enforcement, which makes it difficult for law enforcement to get cooperation from witnesses. If we want our law enforcement to do a better job, they need to build that trust. Unfortunately, the war on some drugs works to undermine that trust, so we’re probably going to need to abandon, or at least radically change, the war on drugs if we actually want to achieve much.
Kay
Biden says Trump’s comments are “beneath the dignity of the office” which is true, IMO.
Shitty, petty low quality people has nothing to do with how much money you have, which Trump and his low quality hires have proved beyond any doubt. They’re bad people and inheriting real estate didn’t change that. They’d be bad people if they were poor and powerless, they’d just cause a lot less damage.
Miss Bianca
@The Moar You Know: You are not alone. I know there’s a lot wrong with Joe Biden, but I can’t help liking him anyway. Not sure that means I want him to be our candidate, but if he wins the primary, he wins my vote ungrudgingly. I can’t help but think that a lot of this “across the aisle” talk is just that – talk. He better than anyone, at this point would have to have no illusions about what pieces of shit the Republicans are.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Omnes Omnibus: He made Paul Ryan look stupid and inexperienced.
The Moar You Know
@stinger: Not going to discuss the merits of polling with anyone here; my degree involved massive amounts of opinion and behavioral statistical sampling (polling, if you will). I’ll just say your assertion that “no one can possibly know that at this point” is dead wrong.
But hey, I’ll spare you from hearing what you don’t want to and just say this: Everyone else in the running right now cannot beat Trump. At all. They don’t have the numbers and never will. To beat the Electoral College handicap, the winning Dem will have to pull at least a 7% popular vote lead over Trump. No candidate save one is posting those kind of numbers.
I have my doubts about Biden but he’s the only one running right now who could possibly win it, so I’m going with that. As to what he’ll do with God Emperor Mitch, well, he’s at no disadvantage to anyone else running for the presidency; he’ll get nothing done too no matter how nicely he asks.
I’d rather have the Senate instead of the presidency right now, but the efforts of Dem voters and money are obviously headed somewhere else. Unless that changes very soon, 2020 will be a pointless exercise in futility.
JPL
@Kay: He waited until Trump’s plane touched down, since you don’t criticize a president when they are on foreign soil. Classy move by Biden spox to point that out.
TenguPhule
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Not exactly a high bar to clear.
Miss Bianca
@CarolDuhart2:
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I was driving at, but was too lazy to put into words. Thanks! ; )
Paul W.
I guess it is somewhat on topic, but is anyone else not jaw-droppingly appalled that the Supreme Court may have avoided ruling on abortion, but it let stand a MANDATORY law in Indiana to bury or cremate a fetus. That’s stunningly cruel, and to me almost as bad as outlawing and certainly the restrictions of abortion itself.
I’ve been burnt out, but I’m starting to have my pissed off meter rise higher and higher, and I don’t think the court will help itself with these kind of rulings because if we secure the Senate we’re wiping all of this bullshit out by changing the courts or we are doomed as a nation in my humble opinion.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yep. He isn’t my first choice, but if he is the first choice of the majority of party members, I would have no problem voting for him.
ruemara
@James E Powell: Lol. We have that. They spend their time attacking Dems, but some do. They are not on TV and fit a very small niche. We aren’t going to get a Democratic Drudge on the telly.
TenguPhule
Second time in two weeks.
JFC.
James E Powell
@Paul W.:
When the supreme court finally overrules Roe v Wade, Susan Sarandon and her ilk will still insist their opposition to Hillary was the right thing to do.
Mandalay
@Kay:
I don’t know if it will actually happen, but the City Commission in Grand Rapids has proposed changes to their existing Human Rights Ordinance which will make it a misdemeanor to phone the cops on black people who have the temerity to exist:
Omnes Omnibus
@James E Powell: You know who was good at the kind of stuff you are talking about – Rahm Emanuel and James Carville.
PJ
@The Moar You Know: And I was so looking forward to a meaningful exercise in futility.
Citizen Alan
@Kay:
The problem there is that too many municipalities rely on fine-collecting from the lower classes in order to keep taxes on the middle and upper classes abnormally low.
PJ
@Roger Moore: I think it might be time to abandon every “war on ____”, particularly the war on people.
rikyrah
New Poll?
https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1131227040840077312
Enhanced Voting Techniques
If Trump has to attack Biden from the left, Trump is in a world of hurt because the base wants hippie punching so they no likie that.
I can see why Biden is well liked, Biden is back to the good old days. Biden is safely, male, white and old he likely will keep the Stupid White Old Geezer Reactionaries Male vote happy for 4-8 years until they are dead/to old to matter. But that 4-8 years the minorities, woman environment, economy and gays don’t really have.
CarolDuhart2
@PJ: We’re well on the way with pot. A couple of cities are decriminalizing mushrooms. If we were to have the model that some places have of dedicated injection rooms and such, we just might be able to cut down usage to the point where it’s nearly invisible and the users are aging out of the system.
Most incarceration has been state and local, and blaming Hillary for that is very mistaken. Besides, there was a real neglect of crime in the black community back then, combined with millions of illicit dollars going to teenage gang bangers. The CBC demanded something be done about it.
And by the way, isn’t the left’s demonizing of Hillary because they really cant take a swing at Bill? Hillary wasn’t a Senator, Governor, or anything back then.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
We’d have to replace the majority of current law enforcement.
They would not go quietly.
Roger Moore
@CarolDuhart2:
I think it’s more because Hillary was the one who was running.
Omnes Omnibus
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Are you suggesting that a Biden presidency would do little or nothing for people who are not older white males?
Brachiator
@Baud:
They hesitated, but DID respond to the question. That ain’t a cult.
stinger
@The Moar You Know: Thanks for explaining your reason, even though, as you’ve guessed, I don’t find it persuasive. What I am looking for isn’t forecasting the future behavior of [persons who claim to be] likely voters but rather past behaviors and current positions of the candidates, as good reasons for supporting them.
chopper
@StringOnAStick:
these farmers are over a barrel with regards to IP, but it’s american companies that are giving them the royal screwjob. whadda maroon.
chopper
@Chief Oshkosh:
rewatch his debate with ZEGS. it’s not Asshole Joe or anything, but biden really took him down to the studs IMHO.
Topclimber
@Kay: You are one of the shrewdest contributors here (shameless flattery yet so true) but I don’t think Biden should concede the youth vote.
Maybe the youts might respond to a McGovern Democrat who won based on an antiwar and pro Civil Right stance and who kept a lot of the faith despite the inevitable compromises in a 40 year establishment career. Still antiwar (see Iran nuclear deal), still pro Civil Rights (as in the guy who nudged Obama on gay marriage).
It is also not good to treat Democratic young as monolithic. I remember a Vietnam era argument that the A students liked McCarthy and the B ones Kennedy. Strip out the classism (maybe B is an A when you have to work while in college) and the racism (perhaps RFK had more street credit with minorities) or not…truth is not every young person thinks the same or has made up their mind.
Brachiator
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Biden is also riding on the enduring affection that many voters have for Obama. Strangely, even some Democrats seem to forget how beloved Obama still is among Democratic voters. Simply portraying Biden as an old, safe white guy is missing much that resonates with his supporters.
LuciaMia
Trumps insistence on the guilt of the Central Park Five, long after the DNA evidence had exonerated them and hios refusal to say he was wrong. That alone should have bounced him from the 2016 campaign. Not to mention showing exactly his character,
Archon
In the darkest days of Obama’s Presidency (2010), when people left, right, and center were shitting on Obama it felt like the only two people really defending the Obama Presidency were Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden.
You can say they had an obvious invested interest in doing so but hey, that matters to Obama stans like me.
The Moar You Know
@rikyrah: Don’t be posting that inconvenient shit, don’t you read the posts here? Biden’s too old and chummy with the GOP and should go die in a retirement home.
schrodingers_cat
@Mandalay: When BS, Mayor PB complain about “identity politics” what I hear is *wink* *wink* don’t worry guys we know whose concerns and feelings are more important and who is expendable.
So far Biden hasn’t said anything like this. His VP tenure is a plus in my book and his senate tenure a negative. Right now he sits at zero with me. I am going to watch the debates and decide who I like the best.
ETA: I also think that Biden is wrong about Rs. T is the symptom the disease is the R ideology. T could have never won the D nomination. I want our nominee to take up that fight and not run away from it.
mrmoshpotato
@Chyron HR: Looks who’s spilling sarcasm all over the blog! Cole’s going to have to take it outside to hose it off, and then the blog will definitely be too close to the willow tree!
majii
Since I grew up under Jim Crow in GA while being black, I know Trump’s type, and people like him continue to piss me off. One of my soapbox issues and major triggers is having someone I know who doesn’t give a d@mn about me and a whole lot of other Americans thinking s/he knows what is in my/our mind[s] and try/tries to tell me/us what/what not to do. Hell, I’m better educated than Trump and many of his supporters. I don’t need them to speak for me because I have a better command of the English language than most of them. All they can do for me is sit down and STFU and stay the hell away from me with their BS. How dare that dumb mthrfker even begin to tell me that I’ll vote for him over Biden because of one issue. In order for him to make that claim about me, he’d have to talk to me, and I haven’t heard anything from him. He and those like him need to learn that those of us they classify as “other,” which includes more than Black Americans, can walk, talk, and chew gum at the same time. If I were to really express the way I feel about their stereotyping and scapegoating, John would ban me from bj, and I’d miss my Lily & Co. updates, so I’ll refrain. If I could speak with Trump for five minutes, it would be a brutal conversation. I’d tell him things someone should have told his dumb @ss long ago.
PJ
@CarolDuhart2: There never should have been a “war on drugs”, which is mostly a war on poor people and people of color, and the sooner we treat drugs as a health issue rather than a criminal one, the better. That said, there was no political will in the early 90s in either party for legalization, crack was destroying inner city communities, and, where I lived, DC, the murder rate was sky high and gun violence was ubiquitous. The crime bill is not what I would have chosen but I understand why those who supported it did. Of course, it’s only now that opioids and meth are destroying white communities that there is the political will to treat drugs as a health issue.
Omnes Omnibus
@majii: Would you use homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic, and/or racist attacks on anyone? Would doxx or threaten to doxx anyone? If not, you probably don’t need to worry about being banned.
PJ
@rikyrah: Clearly Biden has no traction. I don’t know why he doesn’t listen to people on the internet and get out of the race before he embarrasses himself further.
Jeffro
@StringOnAStick: (late response here but hey)
That’s classic! Way to go farmer guy – Lee Atwater would be blown away at how the language has evolved on the Right.
“intellectual property”, that’s rich. But hey way to take one for the team, farmer guy!
J R in WV
@Another Scott:
Maybe — depending upon the women. I’ve witnessed terrible female management in my career, sometimes up close and sometimes in places I used to work that went with an insecure woman manager. They were afraid to hire people smarter than they were, a recipe for death in an organization.
J R in WV
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
And that was easy because Ryan IS stupid, and unable to learn from experience, so will always be inexperienced.