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You are here: Home / Apparently In Other Countries Political Leaders Blatantly Lying is a Crime

Apparently In Other Countries Political Leaders Blatantly Lying is a Crime

by John Cole|  May 29, 201912:00 pm| 67 Comments

This post is in: Blatant Liars and the Lies They Tell

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This is revolutionary:

Boris Johnson has been ordered to appear in court over claims he lied by saying the UK gave the EU £350m a week.

The Tory leadership candidate has been accused of misconduct in public office after making the claim during the 2016 EU referendum campaign.

It is a private prosecution launched by campaigner Marcus Ball, who crowdfunded £200,000 for the case.

Mr Johnson’s representatives have called the case a “stunt” that is being “brought for political purposes”.

The preliminary hearing will take place at Westminster Magistrates’ Court and the case will then be sent to the Crown Court for trial.

The BBC’s assistant political editor, Norman Smith, said the allegations could not come at a worse time for Mr Johnson, and his critics are likely to use the claims against him in the upcoming contest to become next Tory leader and prime minister.

The £350m figure was used by the pro-Brexit Vote Leave group throughout the referendum campaign on the side of a red bus, calling for the UK to “fund our NHS instead”

How quaint. Our media can’t even identify falsehoods as lies, so I don’t know where we would start.

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67Comments

  1. 1.

    Jerzy Russian

    May 29, 2019 at 12:06 pm

    Our media can’t even identify falsehoods as lies

    In one of the Anne of Green Gables books, one of the characters (a young boy) wanted to use the term “whopper”, but Anne told him the term is “falsehood”.

  2. 2.

    Ohio Mom

    May 29, 2019 at 12:10 pm

    It’s like the United States is one giant dysfunctional family. We know Dad is f*cking Sister (and/or whatever possible dysfunction you want to list) but we all pretend everything is a-okay. Except for those of us who know this isn’t normal and are being gas lighted.

  3. 3.

    burnspbesq

    May 29, 2019 at 12:16 pm

    The “case” against Johnson is all the reasons why we told George III to shove it back in 1776, in micocosm. Yes, what he said was bullshit, but under American law it’s the very essence of Constitutionally protected political speech.

    And y’all know this.

  4. 4.

    rikyrah

    May 29, 2019 at 12:16 pm

    Boris is pretty repugnant…may he go down in flames

  5. 5.

    burnspbesq

    May 29, 2019 at 12:19 pm

    @Jerzy Russian:

    I dunno, there are millions of Americans that might be too dumb to tell the difference between one of Trump’s whoppers and the Burger King variety.

  6. 6.

    plato

    May 29, 2019 at 12:21 pm

    The source close to Mr Johnson said the decision to summon him was “extraordinary” and “risks undermining our democracy”.

    It’s always fucking projection with the right wing thugs.

  7. 7.

    plato

    May 29, 2019 at 12:24 pm

    @burnspbesq: Thank god, UK is not fucking murka and the ‘case’ is being actually prosecuted by a judge with common sense.

  8. 8.

    hells littlest angel

    May 29, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    @burnspbesq: OMG! Do the Brits know they’re persecuting Johnson for speech that’s protected by America’s Constitution?

  9. 9.

    burnspbesq

    May 29, 2019 at 12:31 pm

    @plato:

    You’re not thinking clearly.

  10. 10.

    Kay

    May 29, 2019 at 12:33 pm

    Justin Amash
    ‏Verified account
    @justinamash
    1h1 hour ago
    More Justin Amash Retweeted The Associated Press
    The ball is in our court, Congress.Justin Amash added,

    Amash held his town hall in a venue named after the DeVos family, which is delightful.

  11. 11.

    Origuy

    May 29, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    @Jerzy Russian: Anne lived on Prince Edward Island, the birthplace of Canada. “Whopper” would be un-Canadian.

  12. 12.

    JimV

    May 29, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    @burnspbesq: we revolted against England so politicians could tell lies with impunity? Citation please. I thought fraud was still a crime in the USA.

    fraud: wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_politicians_convicted_of_fraud

  13. 13.

    Kay

    May 29, 2019 at 12:36 pm

    Can’t Trump let his lawyer go now that we’re all paying his lawyer, Barr? Seems like they could trim down the defense team. God, they must have committed more crimes than we can imagine if they need more than the attorney general.

  14. 14.

    burnspbesq

    May 29, 2019 at 12:36 pm

    @hells littlest angel:

    I imagine they do.

    If y’all think their system is better than ours, you can move there, or amend the Constitution. But when you find yourself living in Gilead and realize the mistake you’ve made, I don’t want to hear it.

  15. 15.

    burnspbesq

    May 29, 2019 at 12:39 pm

    @JimV:

    Excellent job of fatally undermining your own argument.

  16. 16.

    plato

    May 29, 2019 at 12:40 pm

    @burnspbesq: Heh, you should represent buffoon bobby. A made for each other fit. Dumb ass.

  17. 17.

    trollhattan

    May 29, 2019 at 12:41 pm

    @Ohio Mom:
    It’s a pity wives #1 and #2 are NDA’d from here to Timbuktu because I’m certain they have lots of dirt on Donny beyond what we already know and suspect.

  18. 18.

    trollhattan

    May 29, 2019 at 12:43 pm

    @rikyrah:
    May has been an awful, awful PM but Boris would make her seem like Abe Frickin’ Lincoln by comparison. He’d place seventh in the upperclass twit of the year competition.

  19. 19.

    Cameron

    May 29, 2019 at 12:51 pm

    @burnspbesq: I seem to recall that they don’t have anything like the 5th Amendment either, that refusal to answer a question can be taken to imply guilt. Is that true?

  20. 20.

    Martin

    May 29, 2019 at 12:56 pm

    @trollhattan: NDAs are civil actions. They are worthless next to a Congressional subpoena.

  21. 21.

    Hoodie

    May 29, 2019 at 12:56 pm

    @Cameron: Yeah, and no one should be lauding this anachronism, no matter how loathsome a liar Boris is. Imagine some winger billionaire doing the same to Obama or Clinton. That said, it probably was done more as a stunt than to achieve any particular result.

  22. 22.

    PaulWartenberg

    May 29, 2019 at 12:59 pm

    I think the matter is under the legal argument of “misconduct in office” so if possible we could apply these kind of criminal or civil charges to elected officials as misconduct as well.

  23. 23.

    PaulWartenberg

    May 29, 2019 at 1:01 pm

    @Hoodie:

    I’m pretty sure there were attempts by local officials and private citizens who challenged Obama on his legal status as a natural born citizen, and none of them got anywhere because they couldn’t prove to the judges they had a case to begin with.

    We should be able to trust our legal system at some point to filter out the sham cases from the legit ones.

  24. 24.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    May 29, 2019 at 1:04 pm

    Amash was right that most members of congress have not read the Mueller report. Neither have most reporters or pundits. God knows, the public hasn’t. That’s why many people are reacting so strongly to today’s statement.

  25. 25.

    Emerald

    May 29, 2019 at 1:11 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Neither has Barr.

  26. 26.

    TenguPhule

    May 29, 2019 at 1:16 pm

    @Kay:

    God, they must have committed more crimes than we can imagine if they need more than the attorney general.

    And I can imagine quite a lot.

  27. 27.

    TenguPhule

    May 29, 2019 at 1:17 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    But when you find yourself living in Gilead and realize the mistake you’ve made,

    We’re already there. The Constitution didn’t help.

  28. 28.

    TenguPhule

    May 29, 2019 at 1:18 pm

    @PaulWartenberg:

    We should be able to trust our legal system at some point to filter out the sham cases from the legit ones.

    Mitch McConnell would like you to hold his beer.

  29. 29.

    Amir Khalid

    May 29, 2019 at 1:19 pm

    In Britain, private prosecutions — by private citizens, rather than a public prosecuting authority — are a thing; I remember reading about one in a Rumpole story. They’re not a thing in America. Mr/Ms American Citizen would not get to prosecute Boris Johnson had he told his lies as a Trump cabinet secretary. Which is a terrible pity, but there it is.

  30. 30.

    Raven

    May 29, 2019 at 1:31 pm

    Mueller JUST issued a written statement that disputes the claim that Barr made that Mueller had not made a determination that there was a crime.

  31. 31.

    Citizen Alan

    May 29, 2019 at 1:32 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    It is almost adorable that you think Britain will turn into Gilead before America.

  32. 32.

    trollhattan

    May 29, 2019 at 1:32 pm

    @Martin:
    Not as though congress is going to subpoena the Trump exes, but having their ghoulish stories out in public would drag his crappy personal life back out into the sunlight.

  33. 33.

    Mandalay

    May 29, 2019 at 1:33 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    They’re not a thing in America.

    Not quite. A few states do allow private prosecutions to varying degrees, though even more states explicitly disallow them.

    In the past private prosecutions were only done by the rich in Britain because of the legal costs involved, but nearly £200,000 was raised to go after Johnson through crowdfunding. I suspect private prosecutions will increase in Britain since coming up with the money will be less of an obstacle for causes perceived as worthy.

  34. 34.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    May 29, 2019 at 1:35 pm

    @Raven: I had to read that three times to make my cold-addled brain grasp it. So, Barr claims Mueller said no crime. And Mueller goes public to say he never said that.

  35. 35.

    Amir Khalid

    May 29, 2019 at 1:36 pm

    @Mandalay: They do? Then how come I’ve never seen an American courtroom drama about a private prosecution?

  36. 36.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 29, 2019 at 1:39 pm

    You know, this would be a great opportunity for the Almighty to prove he exists, by sending a bolt of lightning down from the heavens to turn Boris Johnson into a steaming pile of fatty barbeque.

  37. 37.

    Immanentize

    May 29, 2019 at 1:41 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    First, I am sorry you have the Conference Crud. I know it well….

    Second, yes, Mueller pretty plainly said that what Barr said was wrong. Without saying Barr is a mutha. And thanking him for the opportunity to serve.

    I believe he learned that skill in the marines.

  38. 38.

    Mandalay

    May 29, 2019 at 1:42 pm

    @burnspbesq: Boris Johnson’s lawyer agrees with your sentiment:

    “The application represents an attempt, for the first time in English legal history, to employ the criminal law to regulate the content and quality of political debate. That is self-evidently not the function of the criminal law.”

    Unfortunately for Johnson, the judge did not agree: “there was a prima facie case for the allegation that there had been an abuse of the public’s trust in a holder of office”.

    Given that Johnson was (and still is?) the red hot favorite to take over from May, it seems likely that the case will be heard while Johnson is Prime Minister.

  39. 39.

    Immanentize

    May 29, 2019 at 1:42 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Which is why it won’t happen, because there is no Almighty.

  40. 40.

    Raven

    May 29, 2019 at 1:43 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m pretty sure MSNBC is on it.

  41. 41.

    Immanentize

    May 29, 2019 at 1:44 pm

    @Mandalay: Or, it might be enough for the dozen other MPs who want to be PM to send BJ to the back bench.

  42. 42.

    The Moar You Know

    May 29, 2019 at 1:45 pm

    Yes, what he said was bullshit, but under American law it’s the very essence of Constitutionally protected political speech.

    @burnspbesq: True. Ten years ago i would have agreed with you, said “that’s an end to it” and been done with it.

    Now I am of a much different opinion and will say unreservedly “it should not be protected”. Along with many other things we accept as normal and OK in this country, like the entire second amendment.

    Consitution needs a massive update and overhaul. It is not working for 21st century, digitally connected America.

  43. 43.

    Bill Arnold

    May 29, 2019 at 1:47 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Amash was right that most members of congress have not read the Mueller report. Neither have most reporters or pundits. God knows, the public hasn’t. That’s why many people are reacting so strongly to today’s statement.

    Everyone who offers opinions on the redacted Mueller report that appear to be contradicted by it should be called on them – “it sounds like you haven’t read the redacted Mueller report”.
    This could easily become a thing with Amash’s vigorous example.
    This thread by Amash on Barr’s willful misrepresentations is good too.
    https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1133410112847138816
    Justin Amash May 28, 2019

    Attorney General Barr has deliberately misrepresented key aspects of Mueller’s report and decisions in the investigation, which has helped further the president’s false narrative about the investigation.

  44. 44.

    Amir Khalid

    May 29, 2019 at 1:50 pm

    @Immanentize:
    I think one can also learn that skill on Vulcan. I remember Zachary Quinto’s Spock saying “Live long and prosper” to some high muckety-muck, and making it sound a lot like “Fuck you”.

  45. 45.

    Yutsano

    May 29, 2019 at 1:52 pm

    @Mandalay: I’m shallow. I’m hoping for Dominic Raab. He’d basically be the Justin Trudeau of Britain. But if Johnson is out (and a couple of analyses I saw from British commentators suggested he could be) then next could be Gove.

  46. 46.

    Mandalay

    May 29, 2019 at 1:58 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Or, it might be enough for the dozen other MPs who want to be PM to send BJ to the back bench.

    They don’t have the numbers.

    Unless this case (or something else) emerges to seriously harm Boris Johnson, he will be the next PM. He is hugely popular with Conservative MPs who long for an affable-flag-waving-white-upper-class-male-buffoon to be their leader.

  47. 47.

    Kent

    May 29, 2019 at 2:02 pm

    I’m rooting for Jacob Rees-Mogg, because why not go all in with the insufferable upper class twit thing.

  48. 48.

    TenguPhule

    May 29, 2019 at 2:02 pm

    U.S. Secret Service
    ✔
    @SecretService
    At approximately 12:20 p.m. a man lit himself on fire on the Ellipse near 15th and Constitution Ave., Secret Service personnel are on scene assisting @NatlParkService and @usparkpolicepio in rendering first aid.

    598
    7:00 AM – May 29, 2019

  49. 49.

    TenguPhule

    May 29, 2019 at 2:06 pm

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tiptoed around calls for impeachment in a new statement responding to Mueller’s remarks. In her comments, she praised Mueller for his work and vowed to continue investigating the Trump administration.

    “The Congress holds sacred its constitutional responsibility to investigate and hold the President accountable for his abuse of power,” she said. “The Congress will continue to investigate and legislate to protect our elections and secure our democracy. The American people must have the truth.”

    via the guardian

    This better be one heck of a plan, Madam Speaker.

  50. 50.

    Kent

    May 29, 2019 at 2:14 pm

    Centrist 3rd party effort strikes out in WA because no one is interested:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/we-were-wrong-washington-pac-supporting-independents-sees-no-future-for-centrist-third-party/

  51. 51.

    LuciaMia

    May 29, 2019 at 2:19 pm

    CNN came on with “and the White House has issued a statement. We now go to our WhiteHouse correspondent…” Switched the channel before I could hear another syllable. After all, Id just finished lunch.

  52. 52.

    Mnemosyne

    May 29, 2019 at 2:22 pm

    @Jerzy Russian:

    Anne of Avonlea, and Anne is talking to her foster nephew Davy.

  53. 53.

    West of the Rockies

    May 29, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    I’ll be honest: my hot take was that Mueller was being cowardly. I now think he was hoping to however gently indicate that Congress needs to investigate. Having done so, he was also indicating to the justice system that they need to make the Trumpling Crime Cartel honor subpoenas. Finally, it was a nudge to the public that impeachment should happen.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    May 29, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    a man lit himself on fire on the Ellipse near 15th and Constitution Ave.

    When did you arrive in DC, TenguPhule?

  55. 55.

    Mart

    May 29, 2019 at 2:40 pm

    MO AG Josh Hawley’s most played campaign ad to successfully defeat dreadful blue dog Claire McCaskill was one that said his kid has a preexisting condition, and that no one wants to protect preexisting conditions more than him; and it is time to fix this mess once and for all. Of course earlier in the year he added Missouri to the lawsuit that would end the ACA, and along with it the requirement that insurers cover preexisting conditions. And I thought to myself, I wish I could sue that lying piece of shit.

  56. 56.

    geg6

    May 29, 2019 at 2:42 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    But when you find yourself living in Gilead

    For some of us, this is already happening, despite all the “free speech” enshrined in the Constitution. And we didn’t make any mistakes to cause it.

  57. 57.

    Jerzy Russian

    May 29, 2019 at 2:43 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Anne of Avonlea, and Anne is talking to her foster nephew Davy.

    Yes, that is the one. It has been about 16 years since I read those books to my daughter.

    Also, doesn’t Huck Finn talk about whoppers and stretchers in the “preface” to the book about his adventures? If the American press won’t use the term “lie”, then at least use “whoppers”, “stretchers”, “falsehoods”, etc.

  58. 58.

    raven

    May 29, 2019 at 2:46 pm

    Dude just said that in a fight between a boxer and a street fighter always wins. He belongs on tv.

  59. 59.

    Just One More Canuck

    May 29, 2019 at 2:46 pm

    @TenguPhule: I’m wondering exactly what it is that you want to have happen, and how that would be achieved here in the real world. It seems to me that Pelosi et al are trying to put enough evidence together to convince the non-insane portion of the electorate how corrupt Trump and the GOP are

  60. 60.

    opiejeanne

    May 29, 2019 at 3:00 pm

    @raven: Who always wins? The street fighter? What dude is this?

  61. 61.

    opiejeanne

    May 29, 2019 at 3:00 pm

    @Just One More Canuck: This!

  62. 62.

    J R in WV

    May 29, 2019 at 3:20 pm

    I must confess that I would much prefer to read escapist fiction than see the news of the day, which is all quite depressing. Unfortunately, I am having trouble focusing on even favorite authors’ work well enough to follow multiple plots.

    Not sure where to go from here…. Some days I’m an optimist, some days I have trouble with maintaining that attitude.

    Rain and thunderstorms here. At least it cooled things down some. But the outside work I would prefer to do needs at least a day of dry weather forecast. I need to cut down the invasive “olive” and to spray the butt ends with herbicide, but that’s unwise in rainy weather.

    So I’m switching back and forth, reading the news, and reading about the Rajnis of Bear’s otherworldly fiction. So far a sumptuous city has been destroyed by a newly emergent volcano, another sumptuous city is under siege, a phoenix has hatched, and bizarre strangeness seems to walk the land. So, not quite as strange as the news from Washington DC…

  63. 63.

    J R in WV

    May 29, 2019 at 3:23 pm

    @raven:

    Dude just said that in a fight between a boxer and a street fighter always wins. He belongs on tv.

    @opiejeanne:

    @raven: Who always wins? The street fighter? What dude is this?

    Yes, Raven. Who? What did you mean to say? Because you surely didn’t make it clear to anyone what you meant to say! A part of speech is missing somewhere….

  64. 64.

    Sloane Ranger

    May 29, 2019 at 3:48 pm

    @Cameron: Not who you asked but will answer. In Britain you are protected against self incrimination. The old warning under Judges’ Rules read “You have the right to remain silent but anything you do say will be taken down in writing and may be used in a Court of Law.”

    This was changed a few years ago in response to a series of “ambush” defenses to read “You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you fail to mention something which you later rely on in Court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.”

  65. 65.

    Unknown known

    May 29, 2019 at 4:49 pm

    @Yutsano: Raab = Trudeau?

    Raab is a rabid right wing idiot. He was in charge of Brexit negotiations at one point. Then when the deal HE negotiated reached parliament he abruptly resigned and voted against it.

    Where are you getting this nonsense from.

  66. 66.

    patroclus

    May 29, 2019 at 5:00 pm

    Well, all of the Tory contenders for the next PM job are seriously out to lunch, but Rory Stewart has at least ruled out a No Deal Brexit, so he’s slightly less crazy than some of them. I kind of wish a Remainer would actually go for it (Ken Clarke? Boris’s brother Jo?), but that seems unlikely.

  67. 67.

    Dan B

    May 29, 2019 at 5:28 pm

    @Unknown known: Yutsano said he was “shallow” so I believe Raab = handsome, happy personality = Trudeau + Trudeau not consistent progressive.

    Yutsano can correct me at next Seattle meetup, if not earlier.

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