This is revolutionary:
Boris Johnson has been ordered to appear in court over claims he lied by saying the UK gave the EU £350m a week.
The Tory leadership candidate has been accused of misconduct in public office after making the claim during the 2016 EU referendum campaign.
It is a private prosecution launched by campaigner Marcus Ball, who crowdfunded £200,000 for the case.
Mr Johnson’s representatives have called the case a “stunt” that is being “brought for political purposes”.
The preliminary hearing will take place at Westminster Magistrates’ Court and the case will then be sent to the Crown Court for trial.
The BBC’s assistant political editor, Norman Smith, said the allegations could not come at a worse time for Mr Johnson, and his critics are likely to use the claims against him in the upcoming contest to become next Tory leader and prime minister.
The £350m figure was used by the pro-Brexit Vote Leave group throughout the referendum campaign on the side of a red bus, calling for the UK to “fund our NHS instead”
How quaint. Our media can’t even identify falsehoods as lies, so I don’t know where we would start.
Jerzy Russian
In one of the Anne of Green Gables books, one of the characters (a young boy) wanted to use the term “whopper”, but Anne told him the term is “falsehood”.
Ohio Mom
It’s like the United States is one giant dysfunctional family. We know Dad is f*cking Sister (and/or whatever possible dysfunction you want to list) but we all pretend everything is a-okay. Except for those of us who know this isn’t normal and are being gas lighted.
burnspbesq
The “case” against Johnson is all the reasons why we told George III to shove it back in 1776, in micocosm. Yes, what he said was bullshit, but under American law it’s the very essence of Constitutionally protected political speech.
And y’all know this.
rikyrah
Boris is pretty repugnant…may he go down in flames
burnspbesq
@Jerzy Russian:
I dunno, there are millions of Americans that might be too dumb to tell the difference between one of Trump’s whoppers and the Burger King variety.
plato
It’s always fucking projection with the right wing thugs.
plato
@burnspbesq: Thank god, UK is not fucking murka and the ‘case’ is being actually prosecuted by a judge with common sense.
hells littlest angel
@burnspbesq: OMG! Do the Brits know they’re persecuting Johnson for speech that’s protected by America’s Constitution?
burnspbesq
@plato:
You’re not thinking clearly.
Kay
Amash held his town hall in a venue named after the DeVos family, which is delightful.
Origuy
@Jerzy Russian: Anne lived on Prince Edward Island, the birthplace of Canada. “Whopper” would be un-Canadian.
JimV
@burnspbesq: we revolted against England so politicians could tell lies with impunity? Citation please. I thought fraud was still a crime in the USA.
fraud: wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_politicians_convicted_of_fraud
Kay
Can’t Trump let his lawyer go now that we’re all paying his lawyer, Barr? Seems like they could trim down the defense team. God, they must have committed more crimes than we can imagine if they need more than the attorney general.
burnspbesq
@hells littlest angel:
I imagine they do.
If y’all think their system is better than ours, you can move there, or amend the Constitution. But when you find yourself living in Gilead and realize the mistake you’ve made, I don’t want to hear it.
burnspbesq
@JimV:
Excellent job of fatally undermining your own argument.
plato
@burnspbesq: Heh, you should represent buffoon bobby. A made for each other fit. Dumb ass.
trollhattan
@Ohio Mom:
It’s a pity wives #1 and #2 are NDA’d from here to Timbuktu because I’m certain they have lots of dirt on Donny beyond what we already know and suspect.
trollhattan
@rikyrah:
May has been an awful, awful PM but Boris would make her seem like Abe Frickin’ Lincoln by comparison. He’d place seventh in the upperclass twit of the year competition.
Cameron
@burnspbesq: I seem to recall that they don’t have anything like the 5th Amendment either, that refusal to answer a question can be taken to imply guilt. Is that true?
Martin
@trollhattan: NDAs are civil actions. They are worthless next to a Congressional subpoena.
Hoodie
@Cameron: Yeah, and no one should be lauding this anachronism, no matter how loathsome a liar Boris is. Imagine some winger billionaire doing the same to Obama or Clinton. That said, it probably was done more as a stunt than to achieve any particular result.
PaulWartenberg
I think the matter is under the legal argument of “misconduct in office” so if possible we could apply these kind of criminal or civil charges to elected officials as misconduct as well.
PaulWartenberg
@Hoodie:
I’m pretty sure there were attempts by local officials and private citizens who challenged Obama on his legal status as a natural born citizen, and none of them got anywhere because they couldn’t prove to the judges they had a case to begin with.
We should be able to trust our legal system at some point to filter out the sham cases from the legit ones.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Amash was right that most members of congress have not read the Mueller report. Neither have most reporters or pundits. God knows, the public hasn’t. That’s why many people are reacting so strongly to today’s statement.
Emerald
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Neither has Barr.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
And I can imagine quite a lot.
TenguPhule
@burnspbesq:
We’re already there. The Constitution didn’t help.
TenguPhule
@PaulWartenberg:
Mitch McConnell would like you to hold his beer.
Amir Khalid
In Britain, private prosecutions — by private citizens, rather than a public prosecuting authority — are a thing; I remember reading about one in a Rumpole story. They’re not a thing in America. Mr/Ms American Citizen would not get to prosecute Boris Johnson had he told his lies as a Trump cabinet secretary. Which is a terrible pity, but there it is.
Raven
Mueller JUST issued a written statement that disputes the claim that Barr made that Mueller had not made a determination that there was a crime.
Citizen Alan
@burnspbesq:
It is almost adorable that you think Britain will turn into Gilead before America.
trollhattan
@Martin:
Not as though congress is going to subpoena the Trump exes, but having their ghoulish stories out in public would drag his crappy personal life back out into the sunlight.
Mandalay
@Amir Khalid:
Not quite. A few states do allow private prosecutions to varying degrees, though even more states explicitly disallow them.
In the past private prosecutions were only done by the rich in Britain because of the legal costs involved, but nearly £200,000 was raised to go after Johnson through crowdfunding. I suspect private prosecutions will increase in Britain since coming up with the money will be less of an obstacle for causes perceived as worthy.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Raven: I had to read that three times to make my cold-addled brain grasp it. So, Barr claims Mueller said no crime. And Mueller goes public to say he never said that.
Amir Khalid
@Mandalay: They do? Then how come I’ve never seen an American courtroom drama about a private prosecution?
Villago Delenda Est
You know, this would be a great opportunity for the Almighty to prove he exists, by sending a bolt of lightning down from the heavens to turn Boris Johnson into a steaming pile of fatty barbeque.
Immanentize
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
First, I am sorry you have the Conference Crud. I know it well….
Second, yes, Mueller pretty plainly said that what Barr said was wrong. Without saying Barr is a mutha. And thanking him for the opportunity to serve.
I believe he learned that skill in the marines.
Mandalay
@burnspbesq: Boris Johnson’s lawyer agrees with your sentiment:
Unfortunately for Johnson, the judge did not agree: “there was a prima facie case for the allegation that there had been an abuse of the public’s trust in a holder of office”.
Given that Johnson was (and still is?) the red hot favorite to take over from May, it seems likely that the case will be heard while Johnson is Prime Minister.
Immanentize
@Villago Delenda Est: Which is why it won’t happen, because there is no Almighty.
Raven
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m pretty sure MSNBC is on it.
Immanentize
@Mandalay: Or, it might be enough for the dozen other MPs who want to be PM to send BJ to the back bench.
The Moar You Know
@burnspbesq: True. Ten years ago i would have agreed with you, said “that’s an end to it” and been done with it.
Now I am of a much different opinion and will say unreservedly “it should not be protected”. Along with many other things we accept as normal and OK in this country, like the entire second amendment.
Consitution needs a massive update and overhaul. It is not working for 21st century, digitally connected America.
Bill Arnold
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Everyone who offers opinions on the redacted Mueller report that appear to be contradicted by it should be called on them – “it sounds like you haven’t read the redacted Mueller report”.
This could easily become a thing with Amash’s vigorous example.
This thread by Amash on Barr’s willful misrepresentations is good too.
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1133410112847138816
Justin Amash May 28, 2019
Amir Khalid
@Immanentize:
I think one can also learn that skill on Vulcan. I remember Zachary Quinto’s Spock saying “Live long and prosper” to some high muckety-muck, and making it sound a lot like “Fuck you”.
Yutsano
@Mandalay: I’m shallow. I’m hoping for Dominic Raab. He’d basically be the Justin Trudeau of Britain. But if Johnson is out (and a couple of analyses I saw from British commentators suggested he could be) then next could be Gove.
Mandalay
@Immanentize:
They don’t have the numbers.
Unless this case (or something else) emerges to seriously harm Boris Johnson, he will be the next PM. He is hugely popular with Conservative MPs who long for an affable-flag-waving-white-upper-class-male-buffoon to be their leader.
Kent
I’m rooting for Jacob Rees-Mogg, because why not go all in with the insufferable upper class twit thing.
TenguPhule
TenguPhule
via the guardian
This better be one heck of a plan, Madam Speaker.
Kent
Centrist 3rd party effort strikes out in WA because no one is interested:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/we-were-wrong-washington-pac-supporting-independents-sees-no-future-for-centrist-third-party/
LuciaMia
CNN came on with “and the White House has issued a statement. We now go to our WhiteHouse correspondent…” Switched the channel before I could hear another syllable. After all, Id just finished lunch.
Mnemosyne
@Jerzy Russian:
Anne of Avonlea, and Anne is talking to her foster nephew Davy.
West of the Rockies
I’ll be honest: my hot take was that Mueller was being cowardly. I now think he was hoping to however gently indicate that Congress needs to investigate. Having done so, he was also indicating to the justice system that they need to make the Trumpling Crime Cartel honor subpoenas. Finally, it was a nudge to the public that impeachment should happen.
Baud
@TenguPhule:
When did you arrive in DC, TenguPhule?
Mart
MO AG Josh Hawley’s most played campaign ad to successfully defeat dreadful blue dog Claire McCaskill was one that said his kid has a preexisting condition, and that no one wants to protect preexisting conditions more than him; and it is time to fix this mess once and for all. Of course earlier in the year he added Missouri to the lawsuit that would end the ACA, and along with it the requirement that insurers cover preexisting conditions. And I thought to myself, I wish I could sue that lying piece of shit.
geg6
@burnspbesq:
For some of us, this is already happening, despite all the “free speech” enshrined in the Constitution. And we didn’t make any mistakes to cause it.
Jerzy Russian
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, that is the one. It has been about 16 years since I read those books to my daughter.
Also, doesn’t Huck Finn talk about whoppers and stretchers in the “preface” to the book about his adventures? If the American press won’t use the term “lie”, then at least use “whoppers”, “stretchers”, “falsehoods”, etc.
raven
Dude just said that in a fight between a boxer and a street fighter always wins. He belongs on tv.
Just One More Canuck
@TenguPhule: I’m wondering exactly what it is that you want to have happen, and how that would be achieved here in the real world. It seems to me that Pelosi et al are trying to put enough evidence together to convince the non-insane portion of the electorate how corrupt Trump and the GOP are
opiejeanne
@raven: Who always wins? The street fighter? What dude is this?
opiejeanne
@Just One More Canuck: This!
J R in WV
I must confess that I would much prefer to read escapist fiction than see the news of the day, which is all quite depressing. Unfortunately, I am having trouble focusing on even favorite authors’ work well enough to follow multiple plots.
Not sure where to go from here…. Some days I’m an optimist, some days I have trouble with maintaining that attitude.
Rain and thunderstorms here. At least it cooled things down some. But the outside work I would prefer to do needs at least a day of dry weather forecast. I need to cut down the invasive “olive” and to spray the butt ends with herbicide, but that’s unwise in rainy weather.
So I’m switching back and forth, reading the news, and reading about the Rajnis of Bear’s otherworldly fiction. So far a sumptuous city has been destroyed by a newly emergent volcano, another sumptuous city is under siege, a phoenix has hatched, and bizarre strangeness seems to walk the land. So, not quite as strange as the news from Washington DC…
J R in WV
@raven:
@opiejeanne:
Yes, Raven. Who? What did you mean to say? Because you surely didn’t make it clear to anyone what you meant to say! A part of speech is missing somewhere….
Sloane Ranger
@Cameron: Not who you asked but will answer. In Britain you are protected against self incrimination. The old warning under Judges’ Rules read “You have the right to remain silent but anything you do say will be taken down in writing and may be used in a Court of Law.”
This was changed a few years ago in response to a series of “ambush” defenses to read “You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you fail to mention something which you later rely on in Court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.”
Unknown known
@Yutsano: Raab = Trudeau?
Raab is a rabid right wing idiot. He was in charge of Brexit negotiations at one point. Then when the deal HE negotiated reached parliament he abruptly resigned and voted against it.
Where are you getting this nonsense from.
patroclus
Well, all of the Tory contenders for the next PM job are seriously out to lunch, but Rory Stewart has at least ruled out a No Deal Brexit, so he’s slightly less crazy than some of them. I kind of wish a Remainer would actually go for it (Ken Clarke? Boris’s brother Jo?), but that seems unlikely.
Dan B
@Unknown known: Yutsano said he was “shallow” so I believe Raab = handsome, happy personality = Trudeau + Trudeau not consistent progressive.
Yutsano can correct me at next Seattle meetup, if not earlier.