BIG South Carolina endorsement >> @KamalaHarris lands the Reckoning Crew.https://t.co/qICUOQGiHc
— Ian Sams (@IanSams) June 13, 2019
It’s not sexxxay, by Media Village Idiot standards, but going out and asking people for their vote is the very heart of old-time politics:
… The “Reckoning Crew,” a group of 100 predominately black female activists, announced its endorsement of the California Democrat on Thursday. The group, led by Bernice Scott, organizes in the rural part of Richland County, the state’s second biggest county…
Black voters made up 61% of South Carolina’s Democratic primary electorate in 2016; 37% identified as black women and 89% of them voted for Clinton over Sanders.
For her part, Harris has her own built-in network of black support that rose from her undergraduate years at Howard University, a historically black college in Washington, and sorority Alpha Kappa Alpha Inc., whose members she constantly singles out for selfies and makes time for conversation at various campaign events…
Scott first met Harris at a February town hall in in Columbia and said the way Harris presented herself clinched the endorsement.
“The way she shook my hand and talked directly to me,” said Scott, one of the first black elected officials in Richland. “The way she presented herself and handled herself, and talked about the way she was brought up — right there in my mind, I said I was going to support her.”
But the final approval from the Reckoning Crew came last Sunday morning during their weekly meeting, a day after Harris had delivered a forceful defense of her record as a prosecutor. Harris, who served as California’s attorney general and San Francisco’s district attorney, has faced attacks from the left because of it…
“Everybody was all piped up about her speech. They were really impressed and they felt that it was worth going out there and fighting for,” she said, adding that “our goal is to win South Carolina for Ms. Harris.”
The group, which fits the demographic of the types of voters Harris must win over, has already helped set up the campaign’s South Carolina headquarters and build volunteer efforts…
Kamala Harris tells @scottdetrow and @Clay_Masters her DoJ “would have no choice” but to prosecute Trump after he leaves the WH. “I've seen prosecution of cases on much less evidence." https://t.co/zMCPRxHqKh
— Alex Seitz-Wald (@aseitzwald) June 12, 2019
.@KamalaHarris prosecuting the many “frauds” Donald Trump has committed against the American people: “…And then he claims to be the best president we’ve seen in a generation. Well I say, let’s call Barack Obama because that’s identity fraud!” ?? #IACaucus #ForThePeople pic.twitter.com/nPxtfhrbI0
— Maya Harris (@mayaharris_) June 9, 2019
I was deeply honored that Emily Lyons attended our Alabama event this weekend. In 1998, Emily was working at an abortion clinic in Birmingham when a bomb went off and she was gravely injured. Her courage and commitment to defending reproductive freedom inspires me. pic.twitter.com/7nNx9E1k3M
— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) June 10, 2019
Q: Tariffs a potential tool that you would consider using as president?
Harris: “I would consider as President reading a briefing book. I would consider surrounding myself with experts. I would consider listening to the voices of the people who are going to be most at risk…” pic.twitter.com/iL4v96TtcS— Vaughn Hillyard (@VaughnHillyard) June 8, 2019
The people in power are no match for the power of the people. #ForThePeople pic.twitter.com/iUZ7T2uKSg
— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) June 12, 2019
On the Road and In Your Backyard
OzarkHillbilly
Some days I just don’t have the fortitude to even read the news. Blech.
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: Don’t you have to at least watch the news to see who they are promoting currently? kidding
OzarkHillbilly
@JPL: Seeing as I don’t have TV, no. ;-)
satby
I never watch the news, and never listen to it on the radio either, at least news based in this country. I will watch the BBC or CBC, but that’s rare too. I prefer to read it and control the onslaught that way.
Betty Cracker
Zing! One thing I admire about Harris is her relentless yet subtle method of dragging Trump. She uses phrases like “let’s tell the truth” a lot to contrast herself with the pathological liar in the White House. In the clip above, she calls out Trump’s laziness, arrogance and incompetence without even uttering his name. It may be an effective strategy because, outside Trump’s cult, even people who don’t obsessively follow politics are alarmed by Trump’s lack of preparation and fecklessness.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
?
HinTN
@Betty Cracker: Yes, and turning a gotcha question to her own purpose is a great talent.
She’s flying under the radar while doing the necessary work.
rikyrah
Good Morning,Everyone ???
OzarkHillbilly
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Just watched the highlights. Hell of a game.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
“You work hard every day. Your president should also.”
Matt McIrvin
If this ends up as a race between Harris and Warren (unlikely but, I suppose, possible)… I’ll be happy. Very happy.
Baud
We find out today who will be facing whom in the
Hunger Gamesfirst presidential debate. That’ll be interesting.All the excitement of the NFL draft with only the fate of the country at stake.
rikyrah
Rosie Gray (@RosieGray) Tweeted:
A Whisper Network Of Black Sorority Sisters Is Building A Grassroots Campaign For Kamala Harris In The South https://t.co/yMRc4rtZn6 interesting story by @ByRyanBrooks https://twitter.com/RosieGray/status/1138880558891708416?s=17
Kay
So far, I think having 20+ candidates has been overall good as far as the larger goal- beating Trump. That could change of course, if/when it gets nastier, but it’s better than I thought it would be.
IMO political media are having trouble defining Harris- they don’t know where to put her on the Left/Right line. That could be good and it’s certainly better than what they’ve done to Beto which is define him as a lightweight. I think the “prosecutor” is tripping them up. They want to put her to the Right (along with Klobachur) because of that and she doesn’t really fit there.
Comrade Nimrod Humperdink
@Matt McIrvin: I actually consider this a strong possibility, and they’re two of my top three (Inslee is the other, but he’ll have to really impress in the debates to move the needle enough to keep going). I’m not really sure how Biden is going to hold up. Put him against Republicans, or ask him about Republicans and he’s fine (Paul Ryan, the Giuliani zinger heard ’round the world), but he’s a dinosaur in a party that has shifted a great deal even since 2008, and he’s going to spend a fair amount of time on the defensive because of it.
Baud
I didn’t see the speech, but I’m glad she didn’t take the bait and start apologizing in order to win over haters.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Yeah. Talk about breathing easier.
I really wish Biden and Bernie hadn’t run. Their presence dampens my interest in the primary, although their polling obviously justifies their decision.
Kay
@Baud:
I am too. She should reject this category. I get it- “for the people”- the justification for putting her in that box is she’s running on it, but the box is too small and it doesn’t even adequately describe “prosecutors” let alone Harris. It would be such a shame if that was closed off as a route for Democrats to come up in. I don’t know why we would do that. It doesn’t mean “conservative”- that’s actually a label Republicans put on it and they have benefited from that since Nixon, defining THEIR version of law and order as THE version. I hate when we accept their terms.
satby
@rikyrah: Good morning rikyrah ?
And to everyone!
@OzarkHillbilly: ?
(Missed that first blech)
Jeffro
@Matt McIrvin: you’re not kidding! And what a powerhouse ticket that would be either way
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
Yes. I’m hoping she surges some time soon. I just get a feeling she could beat Drumpf. I get a feeling Warren can’t, and I can’t put my finger on it.
Brachiator
Is this nonsense Harris’s version of “her emails?” It’s great to see her seat this stuff down, but damn.
But, yeah, her deft jabs at Trump are very effective. Here is the NY Post, quoting Trump.
Well hell, Trump, you are way down in the polls, too.
I wonder if Stephanopoulos pointed that out to the Orange Dirtbag?
Baud
@Kay:
Agree completely. Frankly, no profession should be closed off for Democrats. Law enforcement, prosecutors, military, business. We need to have our people everywhere.
Baud
@Brachiator:
It’s stupid, but it’s not a manufactured argument like EMAILS! It’s an assessment of her work. I find it to be a highly unpersuasive assessment, but I think it’s a different category than the made-up stuff.*
*Caveat: some aspects of said assessment might be entirely made up.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
I’m worried about Warren beating Trump too. I get this Clinton-hatred vibe around her. I’m gun shy about that because I believe it’s irrational so there’s no way to counter it.
I also think Harris is more, pardon me for this, presidential, as corny as that sounds. She has a powerful presence that Warren sometimes lacks.
debbie
@Baud:
I just heard it reported that all but three made the debates. If only three didn’t qualify, they should just have had everyone. What is one or two more podiums on an already crowded stage?
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
The relentless mockery will drown out her plans.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
@Kay:
I don’t disagree. I think Warren is attractive because she’s bold, but being aggressive also means it takes less to knock you down IMHO.
Comrade Nimrod Humperdink
@debbie: Propping up Mike Gravel would’ve been the final nail in the production budget.
Baud
@debbie:
Changing the rules isn’t a good look.
Tom Perez was on Hayes last night, and it’s clear he’s still spooked by the Wimerian conspiracy theories of 2016.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
Part of their difficulty with that might be the fact that anything to the left of “Fascist” is a Democrat.
Chyron HR
@debbie:
Debbie, this isn’t
‘NamAfghanistanVenezuela, this is bowling. There are rules.Kay
@Baud:
I think Warren made one great decision. She decided to run on who and what she is. IMO there’s no other way to do it. If she loses she loses, but this is natural to her and you can tell.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud:
If we had more of “our people” in those professions we probably wouldn’t have so much to complain about. Not that that would stop us, we’d just complain more about less.
Baud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2019/06/14/deadly-deer-disease-is-spreading-could-it-strike-people-too/
Baud
@Kay:
Agreed.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Certainly, a lot of them would be assholes. But they’d be a better class of assholes.
Kay
@Baud:
It’s a bad assessment of her work, though, as far as truancy. This idea that truancy is much better in the juvenile code as a “status” offense is just nonsense. Her taking it to the parent/guardian and making it a misdemeanor gets blaring headlines of “criminal!” but the status offense process for juveniles is terrible- they languish in there. They remain on court supervision for months and months (sometimes years) they inevitably violate, and then THEY, the juvenile, end up with quasi-criminal sanctions. Harris’ approach was inventive and probably, net, an improvement.
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
I can’t tell you how many good liberal women have used the words “shrill” or “screamy” about Warren. I see that as a bad sign, that she’s getting pegged that way even by liberals.
My male friends, on the other hand, are all in for her. It’s strange.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
People grumble that Harris isn’t hammering on the impeachment issue, but I see that as actually more appropriate for a senator/presidential candidate. She’s plenty tough on Trump in all sorts of ways.
Sab
@Baud: I have been a Warren fan for years, since she did her policy posts at TPM about 15 years ago, but Harris is really growing on me. She just seems to be utterly unflappable.I love the way she flips from mostly smiling and laughing to utterly serious in the blink of an eye.
I think a superficial but an important contrast between the two is Harris’ gorgeous voice. It deep and rich and just resonates.
BC in Illinois
@Matt McIrvin:
@Baud:
Someone in an earlier said this (citation needed):
MLC
Disclaimer: I loathe Trump.
But, remark: does Harris appreciate that cases prosecuted “on much less evidence” is NOT a good thing? Cases should not be prosecuted without evidence to support proof beyond a reasonable doubt. It is an abuse of government power to prosecute without that quantum of evidence. I’d like to hear Harris acknowledge that, please.
Kay
@Baud:
And the idea that it’s LESS hardship on the parent w/in the juvenile code is also wrong. Guess who has to take the juvenile to all these court appearances and supervised follow up? The parents. The same parents who couldn’t get them to school. If they can’t get them to school because they are homeless they sure as hell can’t get them to six months of court-ordered monitoring. They INEVITABLY violate.
zhena gogolia
@Sab:
I agree. It’s something Obama also has. And Drumpf doesn’t.
zhena gogolia
@MLC:
The statement does not imply that there was insufficient evidence. There could be “much less evidence” and still be sufficient evidence.
Baud
@Sab:
My big knock on Harris is that I have yet to see her give a good cable news interview (very small sample size). She seems less energetic and natural in the ones I’ve seen.
satby
So, who didn’t make the debates?
Brachiator
@Baud:
How is this an assessment of her work? The charge seems to be that certain jobs are out of bounds for Democrats. I am not aware of many California news stories questioning her qualifications or effectiveness as attorney general. When she ran for the Senate, conservative opponents grumbled that she used her office more for “social justice” issues than for traditional crime fighting.
Baud
@Kay:
Too nuanced for haters on the left.
zhena gogolia
@satby:
Nobody you’ve ever heard of. Only one I can remember is Bullock.
Baud
@Brachiator:
As I understand it, she is being criticized as a “lock them up” prosecutor rather than adopting more “progressive” policies.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
She’s better in informal situations, like talking to voters. She’s okay on Colbert, but a little rehearsed (as they all are, IMO).
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
He’s probably the only one that didn’t make it that should be there. But he chose to declare really late.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
They said that about Hillary too.
guachi
@satby:
Bullock, Gravel, some mayor from Florida, some other person I can’t remember.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@satby: Pat Paulsen
satby
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: he would have been an improvement over several who made it.
I cannot fucking believe they’re having Williamson and deBlasio, and can barely believe Yang and Delaney. Waste of time and space.
Edit, and it will forever irk me that they allow a non-Democrat to free ride.
OzarkHillbilly
@MLC:
A case can have much less evidence and still be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Karen
@Kay:
Thank you! I thought I was the only one feeling that Warren is Hillary 2.0.
Mary G
Everyone I know who’s seen her in person has raved about her.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
A quibble, the responsible parent, if they have one. In my case that was me as my ex was less than useless.
Jeffro
@satby:
Anything past the top eight, max, is a waste. Here’s hoping the other 12 get the message (or lose staff, funding, both) quickly. Failing that, those that continue to limp along at 1% or worse should cease to be invited to DNC events.
Baud
@Jeffro:
My understanding is that the standard for participation will increase for future debates.
Karen
@satby: Then who didn’t make it?
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: besides, “reasonable doubt” is for the jury to decide.
QUINERLY
@rikyrah: Good morning from Poco and his tribe!
We’re all in for Kamala!
satby
@Karen: Bullock, Messam, and Moulton; but Bullock is fighting it. He says he made the threshold in one poll.
They should have had tighter criteria, including party membership as the first one. Fuck Wilmer.
Brachiator
@Baud:
Odd. Conservatives thought that she didn’t spend enough time locking people up. They criticized her for stuff like this:
The lunatic fringe of the left wing seems to believe that Democrats should be too pure to be prosecutors.
Sab
@OzarkHillbilly: Been through that also. We got through because the kids had four responsible parents ( two parents and two supportive step-parents.) I don’t know how single parents do it.
Nicole
@zhena gogolia:
Misogyny isn’t only limited to men. We prefer women to have deeper voices because it makes their voices sound more like men’s voices. We’ve all been socialized that way. It’s depressing. I say this as a woman with a low voice who has heard often that it’s very pleasant to listen to. When I was young I was flattered, but now that I recognize it as yet another example of a society valuing being male over being female… le sigh.
Mind you, as much as patriarchy angers me, I’m happy Harris has a deep voice, as it’ll help her and I don’t want a male candidate. I remember plenty of left-leaning comedians (cough Jon Stewart cough) making cracks about Clinton’s voice.
(Obligatory yes-I-will-vote-for-the-Democratic-candidate-whoever-they-are)
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
Right, but you remember that, I’m sure. The 150 “dates on your calendar” post-adjudication :)
Harris’s critics know that the juvenile code means they can reach these kids until they are 21, right? So they can enter the juvenile system at 15 and be “in” it in some fashion for the next six years? With all the potential for violations of the “plan” that is predicated on the first minor offense that entails?
They’d probably prefer “straight time”. Offense/sanction/over- now get on with your life. They’re just not savvy enough to ask for it.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: Prosecutors by and large are loath to take a case to trial if they feel they do not have proof beyond a reasonable doubt, or so I’ve read anyway. In cases with less proof they much prefer to pressure the accused into pleading guilty thru coercive means eg, jail w/o bail, defense lawyer expenses, trial delays, plea bargaining,etc.
Amir Khalid
@QUINERLY:
Your nym is now in all caps. It looks so much more … emphatic, somehow.
Sab
@Nicole:Acknowledging it as an issue isn’t misogyny. I am speaking as a woman with a soft, high-pitched voice. Fair or not, that’s just the world we live in.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Yeah, that’s my point.
We have to crush him in order to make up for Russian interference. Close (in the EC) isn’t good enough.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud: I think I read the second debate has the same standards as the first one, but the third, September one is tougher.
I understand why the DNC felt they had to include all these people, but it makes the debate a waste of time. We’re still spinning our wheels.
Kay
President 40% needs himself a war. The grifters and thieves are getting nervous they may not remain in power. We now go from “really bad” to “catastrophe”. I remain hopeful that even if he does it, it won’t “work”. I think the country has lost its appetite for wars of choice. I wonder if he’ll start wearing a military uniform.
MomSense
@Kay:
Unfortunately the claiming Native American is not going to go away and it’s so similar to the emails bullshit in that the counter explanation takes so long to make effectively. The narrative about her claiming Native American on forms is that it gave her an advantage is a compelling one. She’s going to be painted as just like the actress moms who got their kids into colleges fraudulently. And in that case it’s definitely the women who are taking all the heat and getting all the negative press. We’ll all be screaming “but her forms”when that same question is asked in every debate and interview ad nauseam.
In the summer of 2012 the Obama campaign pulled half of our Maine volunteers out of working Maine and had us work in NH because the Warren campaign needed so many of the Massachusetts volunteers who normally are assigned New Hampshire because Warren was behind. She won but underperformed Obama in Mass.
She’s my second favorite to Harris but I cannot shake the feeling that the criticism of her is just the right kind of smear that is easy to spin, hard to counter, and offers cruel derision opportunities (tomahawk chops, etc) that it will create an impression of her we won’t be able to defeat.
satby
@Sab: often, we barely do ?.
Actually had a real problem with #2 son because he started high school the year I started the road warrior part of my career, and by Halloween had missed almost a full month of school playing hooky and erasing the school messages before the kid sitter got home each night. The school had my cell # but never contacted me directly. Told him to turn it around or he’d be my travel buddy and get home schooled in the road, and ultimately that’s what happened. I was lucky that my boss was ok with me dragging his surly teenaged ass along on business trips until he wised up. After an excruciating month for both of us and the hotel maids, he was allowed to stay home as long as he made a B average in every single class. He’s very smart and school bored him, but I was lucky we never fell into the whole juvenile truancy enforcement trap.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: Gillibrand was the one where I got “Hillary redux” vibes–she even physically resembles a younger Hillary Clinton and the hate for her seems to have exactly the same kind of edge, even when it comes from people who supported Clinton in 2016. But Gillibrand’s candidacy doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.
I was concerned at the beginning of this race that for every one of the significant Democratic candidates, I already knew the one-sentence attack line against them. Especially for the women. It seemed like the Sanders fans were especially energetic at pushing the standard attack line for all of the non-Sanders candidates. That’s actually quieted down a little at the moment, but I suspect the media will be pushing any nominee’s equivalent of “her emails” hard.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Seriously, blame Sanders and his rigged primary bullshit. Tom Perez was very clear that’s the reason we have to be completely wide open.
MomSense
@Kay:
He is losing control and that makes him incredibly dangerous. I keep thinking of this song (warning it might get stuck in your head) that perfectly describes how we get into these wars. It also has a good beat.
we need a war
gene108
Warren comes across like a school teacher trying to get the class excited about
chemistry,history, bank reform.Most folks didn’t really pay attention back, when they were kids.
I think this just the way she is, which doesn’t work well with some people.
It’s like Al Gore getting ragged for being “wooden”, in 2000, and then getting ragged more, when he tried to be less so.
Kay
@MomSense:
I just refuse to go into this accepting their terms. This smear originally came from the Right. For Democrats to just accept that as defining is to me a capitulation I won’t make. They do not make our rules. If they do we aren’t a real political party- we’re a reactive counter to their rightful rule- always, always on defense. I won’t accept those terms.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud: Believe me, that’s exactly who I blame.
MomSense
@Kay:
I agree however their terms are the ones that get the media coverage. It’s infuriating. I’m just not sure this is the time to fight this battle.
OzarkHillbilly
@Sab: On at least one occasion that I could prove, my ex wife obstructed me in my attempts to help my son fulfill the requirements of his probation.
@Kay: It is inevitable. 16 yr olds just don’t think that way. My son was found drunk and passed out in a gas station bathroom.. Fortunately for him, the judge was understanding of the fact that 3 days previously CJ had held his friend breathing his last after getting crushed by a car. It was a horrific thing for anyone to go thru much less a 16 yr old.
Jeffro
@MomSense:
He’ll be calling for his “2nd Amendment” people to help him out before too much longer. Just watch.
OzarkHillbilly
@Sab: We live in a misogynistic world.
Kay
@MomSense:
One of the things I am starting to like about Biden is he isn’t defensive. He’s just doing his thing. Political media are carping at him about “flip flopping” and all the rest but he’s just going on. There’s power in that. He is not accepting their terms, and he shouldn’t, because they apply different standards to Democrats. I don’t know if it will work! No idea. But I personally am getting some satisfaction from it, because it’s a very affable “fuck you- this is what happened and I’m not apologizing for it”.
gene108
@Nicole:
Obama having a deep rich voice helped him immensely. If he had a high pitches voice, like Mike Tyson, Obama wouldn’t have done as well.
It’s not just limited to women.
We seem wired to respond favorably to deep voices over high pitches ones.
Baud
@MomSense:
The right time to fight that battle was 2016. Instead, we had a lot of our people defect to the other side to fight us. Those memories haven’t faded.
satby
@MomSense: the DNA test brouhaha annoys me because millions of people have taken that test to try to find out more about their families’ histories. She didn’t try to claim any tribal membership, she simply verified an old family story for herself. Millions of people have done that and I think a lot of them aren’t going to care at all.
I have friends who are African American-Native American and were recognized members of the Cherokee nation, until it changed the rules. They were (and are) rightfully proud of their full heritage. Warren didn’t do anything wrong getting the DNA test. The same people tagging on her for ever claiming any Native ancestry are the same people happy to put the old Jim Crow “one drop” rule back into play.
Baud
@Kay:
Agree. It’s one of this stronger attributes. A little NFLTG.
OzarkHillbilly
@MomSense: Every time is the time to fight that battle.
Brachiator
@zhena gogolia:
I would regularly hear female talk radio hosts complain about Hillary’s voice, gleefully endorsing the sentiment of their male co-hosts.. Some of them are now doing the same thing with respect to Warren. These are generally right leaning women, and it’s part of a despicable campaign to belittle the candidate.
I agree that there is often a bias against women’s speaking voices. British prime ministers Margaret Thatcher and Theresa May both seemed to cultivate voices which emphasized the lower registers.
I wonder how Thomas Jefferson or James Madison would do as contemporary politicians. Jefferson had a strong aversion to public speaking, and Madison had a very weak speaking voice. He was also a tiny man.
MomSense
@satby:
I’ve been in similar situations with two of my kids and ended up with brief stints at home schooling until we found a different school. I learned that it is possible to move your child to a neighboring public school – sometimes they will arrange for a kind of swap. Kid who wants better sports for kid who wants better math.
My opinion on truancy is now very different as it is often the mechanism by which we discover significant neglect and abuse. What gets lost in this is that schools do have some discretion about initiating the process. I’m sure that varies from school to school depending on the administrators.
Immanentize
@Kay:
Here and in a bunch of states those low level court involvement with kids are called CHINS cases — “children in need of services.” But like you suggest, the kids don’t get services because the system is flat out trying to help kids who are really in trouble — abused, neglected, etc.
So instead, CHINS kids get a list of must do things. It is probation. And the list is so crazy long (don’t miss school, abide by a curfew, obey your parents, eat your vegatables) that simple kids stuff becomes a violation. Then they are hauled back into court to be violated and then they are in the juvenile criminal process (detention, house arrest with leg moniter, drug testing) and if they violate then, off to kiddie prison where, believe me, there are no services. So the goal of CHINS seems to be kid prison, like the goal of a police stop and frisk is to create probable cause so they can arrest you.
It is an escalation process without boundaries for children.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Dear god. Trump called in to Fox and Friends this morning. I’m NOT looking. Or listening.
Immanentize
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Unshackled from the Order of Sarah!
Herc
And yet Warren is surging in the polls precisely because she CAN connect with voters and projects authenticity and passion. It’s dismaying reading this hand wringing that is belied by the evidence and that reinforces awful right wing narratives. I would happily vote for Harris, but Warren offers a far more compelling, transformative policy vision, and that matters.
chopper
@BC in Illinois:
(chicago accent) that wassme.
MomSense
@Kay: @Baud:
Only men get away with NFLTG. @satby:
I get that but I’m not going to tell native Americans how to feel about it. I think there’s a difference between how Native Americans feel about it compared with how Republicans exploit it. A white woman who claims Native American heritage, even well meaning, gets the advantages without the significant disadvantages. Republicans are just cruel and stupid so they love using it in a derogatory way.
Nicole
@gene108:
We’re not wired; we’re socialized. Deep voices are associated with masculinity. Which we are socialized to value over femininity. It’s not just voice timbre; it’s much more. It’s great for a girl to want to play soccer; it’s weird for a boy to want to knit.
Baud
@Brachiator:
Better than Barack Obama would have done in their time.
raven
@satby:
Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
Baud
@MomSense:
True.
raven
Ocotillo
Like most here, I am a “any carbon based life form” with a “D” next to their name gets my vote over Trump.
The thing Kamala says that resonates with me is prosecuting Cheetolini when he is out. For too long, GOPers have been allowed skate free after their crimes.
Another Scott
@Brachiator: GHWB supposedly got voice training.
Cheers,
Scott.
Nicole
@Sab:
I agree with you that acknowledging an issue isn’t misogyny, but shrugging it off as “that’s how things are” allows it to perpetuate. We won’t change things for 2020, or 2024, or probably even 2084. But it’s important to call it out when we see it. I agree, it’s the world we live in, but I don’t want to shrug it off as a “just.” Once upon a time, an American society where same sex couples couldn’t get married was “just the world we live in,” too. That didn’t make it okay. It’s on all of us to recognize it.
Brachiator
@MomSense:
It won’t go away because the media will keep bringing it up. It’s funny. Some journalists admit that the continual regurgitation of the emails story was an error. But apparently they never learn.
Even though she didn’t appear to try to use it to gain any advantage.
Meanwhile, Trump referred to her again recently as Pocahontas. She should quickly dismiss this crap and call Trump out on his bigotry.
Baud
@raven:
She passes the “not a fascist” test. Excellent.
MomSense
@OzarkHillbilly:
I wish I felt as confident as you are. I remember back when the emails story broke and Coke posted angrily about it here and then of course we all did our jackal thing. I was on the fuck this is bad side. One of the correct arguments was that Colin Powell and others also used personal emails to which I responded that as unfair as it is Democrats are always held to a different standard. Because I liked Hillary so much I ended up (and still am) a huge supporter. My attitude was no way in hell we should let the GOP get away with 30 years of smearing her. I’m risk averse now. Maybe I’ll want to fight that fight next time, assuming we elect a Democrat this time.
Immanentize
@raven:
You and about 10,000 other boys. In Miami that’s how they filled their region draft quotas
Jeffro
Democrats need to ramp up their rhetoric about trumpov’s inciting a war with Iran, and quickly.
Call all of his and Pompeo’s nonsense “impeachment insurance”, or something. They’re capable of anything.
Immanentize
@Another Scott:
And Dan Quayle greyed his hair.
Nicole
@satby:
My very bright (PhD in Statistics) brother did the same thing his senior year of high school. Skipped so much he had to go to summer school to graduate. I wonder what would have happened if he’d be born 30 years later. Of course, he’s also white and grew up middle class, so he got a lot of breaks kids in other circumstances wouldn’t have then and quite possibly would still have gotten them today.
Sab
@gene108: I think it’s physics and socialization. My husband has a loud deep voice. It’s great for public speaking, but he scares small children and unfamiliar dogs. My voice annoys a lot of men (especially older ones, who simply cannot hear me) but I can talk to unfamiliar children, dogs and cats.
Decent men train themselves to get over their visceral reaction. Jerks and media types ( whose voice is often their only positive attribute) don’t bother.
Immanentize
@Jeffro:
If it is fabricated, or more likely the efforts of the UAE or Saudis, it is more like additional reasons to impeach.
Really? I ran is going to attack a Russian crewed tanker and a Japanese tanker while She is in Tehran? Sounds like a big ass warning shot to Russia, Japan and Iran to me.
OzarkHillbilly
@MomSense:
My confidence is not in winning or losing, only that the fight needs to happen now and forever because anything less is surrender.
O. Felix Culpa
@Sab:
Yes. And no. It is the world we live in, and I hope we’re starting to change it. It’s another expression of hatred/degradation of women that they can’t have their own voices, both literally and figuratively. This presidential race might be too high stakes an arena to fight that particular battle, but not fighting that false standard will handicap women forever.
MomSense
@Nicole:
We’ve got a hipster guy in our knitting group. His girlfriend taught him. He’s a freaking rock star whenever he shows up. It’s become so funny because his GF does this what, no love for me routine. One of my sons did ballet as a little kid and he really regretted stopping once he realized he would have been the one dude in a class full of amazing women.
raven
@Immanentize: 10,000? Ever hear of Project 100,000?
raven
@MomSense: One of my best friend was made to take tap when he was a kid, man, he could turn a double play!
OzarkHillbilly
@MomSense:
When my sons were in Kids in the Middle I got some of that treatment too as the only father in the waiting room and especially as the only father who went to the group counseling for parents of KitM. Especially once they realized I wasn’t there to ‘pick up chicks’.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: ? Headlines like that make me want to almost buy a copy of the NYT just to roll it up and smack the Washington Post, but then I remember FTFNYT, so I’d buy a Chicago Tribune for the bludgeoning.
You’re the damn reporters. Don’t ask me the question.
rikyrah
@Baud:
She definitely had to turn around that ‘ Kamala is a cop’ bullshyt. Needed to own her path – she was a Prosecutor….own it.
Immanentize
@raven:
Ugh. No. No I didn’t. It really was just numbers to them.
There were two retired generals in Boston last week promoting education because too many Americans are really not ready for service…. But they will take them anyway, huh?
Brachiator
@Nicole:
I agree with you, but it’s not just a deep voice thing. Women have been kept out of many social spaces.
To use the Brits as an example again, there is this recent obituary.
Of course, things were equally bad in the US, for similar reasons.
MomSense
@raven:
I love tap dancing. Wish I could do it but my feet didn’t work that way. I saw a production of Sophisticated Ladies last week and the tap dancing was amazing. I was in heaven.
schrodingers_cat
KH has outlined a path to citizenship for DACA peeps using executive actions.
Leto
@MomSense: Apparently everyone forgot the two threads from yesterday that were derailed by rikyrah’s Warren NA tweets, and then the ensuing conversations we had about why that was bullshit, followed by the troll coming out and saying the BJ hive mind wasn’t happy. Yes it’s conservative bullshit but when our own people are merrily pushing that line, it’s fucking depressing. “But her emails” indeed.
O. Felix Culpa
RIght now I lean Warren because of policy substance, but KH is a close second. I’d be thrilled if either one were our candidate. Both would have to overcome the crimes of being female and any other trumped up bullshit the fascists – and elements of the left – will absolutely certainly for sure throw at them. To me, the best response is to carry their identities proudly. Turn the hate on its head and carry on.
Nicole
@Brachiator:
Oh, absolutely, and for oodles of reasons. The deep voice vs high voice is just one of thousands of ways our society values qualities perceived as “masculine” over ones perceived as “feminine.” Because society believes that the best thing to be is male and that’s not going to change any time soon. And a lot of these “things” are physical things that we try to persuade ourselves are how we’re wired, when in fact, it’s how we’re taught. There are thousands of them, and some of them are very destructive to men, too (height). But they all point towards the same final conclusion: it’s better to be male than female (Much like Descartes setting out to prove the existence of God, society had its desired conclusion at the start and just massaged the data backwards to make it all fit).
I believe that conclusion is, of course, erroneous, but it’s had a really, really long and successful run and it’ll take a long time to shift a worldwide mindset. Worth the effort, though.
Nicole
@O. Felix Culpa:
That sounds terribly similar to a friend of mine who earnestly explains that 2020 is not the time for a woman candidate, because our only shot is a man to beat Trump.
It’s not jeopardizing the Presidential race to call out media talking heads on TV, Twitter, our friends, whoever, when they criticize a woman for her voice, height, weight, hairstyle, etc. We might wind up opening a few minds, and that’s a start. If it doesn’t change their vote in the near term, it may marinate in their brains and shift their perspective going forward about the women they see in their daily lives. But we can’t worry about whether the current moment is the right one. As they say, if not now, then when?
germy
Onion headline
raven
@Immanentize: Depends. My diss looked at the “attrition studies” that the Army did in the 80’s. They were trying to figure out a recruiting criteria and found that traditional HS grad was twice a likely to finish their tour as a GED grad so they use that. Nowadays education is crucial to recruitment and retainment. At the height of the last cluster fuck they started lowering standards because they need more fodder, with the RIF’s they can be more selective again.
O. Felix Culpa
@Nicole: No argument from me. I’m fighting that battle in real time in my own little political corner.
Nicole
@MomSense:
One of the prestigious dance studios here in NYC offers free tuition to boys who qualify for the ballet program, while the girls have to pay out the nose (or rather, their parents do). I understand, in that there are so few of them, but it grates on me that, while I do really appreciate boys valuing “feminine” activities, they tend to be rewarded at a greater rate than the girls who had to push their way into male spaces. So I am in the contradictory position of wanting more boys doing “feminine” activities, but being annoyed that society rewards them far more than girls get rewarded for doing masculine activities. Ah well; I’m not a conservative, so I am comfortable living with my contradictions.
O. Felix Culpa
@germy: Ugh. Love the Onion, but that is not not not funny.
Baud
@Nicole:
I guess I’m not 100% convinced wiring is completely irrelevant. As with any nature v. nurture, argument, it’s hard to separate the two, but I believe people physiologically respond different to different pitches of sound.
schrodingers_cat
I am not a fan of Elizabeth Warren’s elocution abilities. Her voice is fine, but the hand waving and upturned eyebrows and the breathless non stop barrage of words just makes me tune out. Slow down, Liz.
ETA: Its probably just me but I find an over reliance on hand gestures a tad exhausting. Another reason I cannot hear either BS of Vt or Orange T speak.
Leto
@Immanentize: The Army and Marines will always take them. Also it’s not just education. The DoD came out a few years ago with: our current recruits are 1) out of shape and 2) a little too round. Kids aren’t getting enough exercise, so they’re failing the entry physical exams. And the bar for that is sooo looow.
The Army and Marines will still take them, it just means a longer basic training for those individuals. They will be placed in the physical fitness platoons until they can meet standards, then shifted back to the regular training platoons to try to finish out.
When it was discussed earlier about Dems should be everywhere, including the military, I basically laughed. Democrats ceded the military back in the 70s and unless a fundamental shift occurs with regard to how we (Dems) view public service (specifically the military), and how Dems engage with the military, it simply will never happen.
Nicole
@O. Felix Culpa:
Keep fighting the good fight! Worth it for all of us.
Brachiator
@Nicole:
Fortunately, we are working to change this now and have been working on it for a while.
It’s funny. Some keep wondering if sexism will make it impossible for a woman candidate to win the presidency. This is part of the official narrative.
And yet people keep forgetting that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote over Trump, by a sizeable margin. I think this is a hopeful sign.
Leto
@raven:
Exactly. When the Army and Marines chewed through their best, and couldn’t replace them, that’s when drug dealers, violent offenders, and gang members started tipping the “who are we recruiting” list. In an all volunteer force, you eventually run out of good candidates signing up.
Part of what hurt the Air Force was 1) trading people for planes (40k reduction in force for F22s) and 2) former SecAF Heather Wilson deciding to do a five year draw down plan in one. That was 2014. It was informally called the “AF Hunger Games”. It was such a clusterfuck that we’re still having problems with that now, five years later. But that’s just one of a myriad of problems we face that’s not even related to procurement issues that’s basically ignored. /shrug “We need to be everywhere!” Lol
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: It’s a glass half full vs half empty thing, I suppose. Yeah, Clinton won the popular vote. But the fact that a race between an accomplished, experienced, intelligent woman and a malignant buffoon was close enough to steal is depressing AF.
Nicole
@Baud:
Many forms of music that originated in Asia use a different tonal scale than Western music, and so sounds discordant to Western ears, but is very beautiful to ears that grew up listening to it. It’s possible to shift, but it takes time. My stepmom is Cambodian, and listens to a lot of Cambodian music, both traditional and pop. I’ve gone from it sounding jarring to my very Western ear, to really liking a lot of it. But it took awhile.
For that matter, a lot of Asian language are pitched much higher than Western ones. Language is acquired, not innate. Western ears can find a higher-pitched language jarring to listen to, but as our ears are biologically identical, that can’t be wiring.
Worldwide, the only consistent behavior that is gender-related is that kids will start self-segregating themselves by gender at a fairly consistent point in their development. No one really understands why. There’s some observation that boys are more aggressive in play than girls, but it’s really hard to tell whether that is innate or socialized, since parents start treating kids differently by gender from a very, very young age (baby boys are picked up and held less often, for example).
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t generally find hand gestures irritating, but Trump’s and Sanders’ gesticulating drive me bat shit. Trump does this stupid accordion thing with his tiny mitts. And even back when I liked Sanders, I found his finger-wagging annoying.
raven
@Leto: Yea well, I was one of those “not the best”. Fuck the green machine and their bullshit, i had officers that couldn’t out piss out of a fucking boot and THEY were college boys. Half of the military in WW2 didn’t have a HS credential (that’s where the GED came from).
M31
@Ocotillo:
Horta (D) gets my vote
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
Yeah. You describe it well.
raven
@Leto: I don’t think it is the case that the Army and Marines will “always” take them, it depends on their need at the time. Maybe it’s the “them” that we are disagreeing on?
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: They must have had permissive parents. Most kids lose those annoying habits by the time they are old enough to read.
joel hanes
One thing to like about Harris is that she’s a two-fer: her sister, Maya, is her campaign manager and is a formidable liberal political force in her own right. Those who worry about where Harris stands and whether a former prosecutor can actually be “progressive” should learn a bit about Maya Harris.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@O. Felix Culpa:
No kidding. Not a fan of Jr. either, but his father and his uncle were both ASSASSINATED for crying out loud!
Matt McIrvin
@MomSense: That’s the way I feel about it too. Making a deal of her Native ancestry is the kind of mistake a lot of white people have made; Native Americans have a legitimate beef with that and when they’re upset, I’m not going to tell them they’re wrong. If there’s a villain here it’s Harvard University; their touting her as a tenured POC was shameless tokenism.
White Republicans, though, they don’t get a pass to talk shit about it. They were the ones hounding her to get the DNA test. They just want an excuse to make tomahawk chops and war whoops. It’s been that way since she was running against Scott Brown.
schrodingers_cat
@joel hanes: Kamala H, reminds me of my mom and my grandmother many other competent Indian women who took no shit from no one and always had a smile on their face while putting up with societal pressures like blatant in your face misogyny. They were listened to without having to raise their voice. You knew when they were in charge, be it of a family trip or a wedding with elebenty guests, things would go smoothly without a hitch.
Leto
@raven: No, we’re agreeing on the same people. It does depend on the current state as to who they’ll take though the Army/Marine standards are lower overall. The ASVAB scores needed for Army/Marines are typically lower than AF/Navy. Fundamental differences in the job, also how we train and expectations.
Also agree with your early comment about officers. They basically come in two flavors: competent and did you ever stop sniffing glue?
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Another similarity between the two shouties (BS and Orange T) is their accent.
Doug R
@Matt McIrvin:
Warren/Harris would be a lot like Clinton/Gore… :)
Topclimber
@zhena gogolia: Maybe you feel that way because Trump has never put Harris on the derisive/defensive (Pocahontas) or because Harris has won twice as underdog while Warren has had it easier.
That said I like Warren Harris on basis of the elder for four years and the younger for the next eight (assuming she proves to be the real deal).
Raven
@Leto: Yea, my old man was a Navy mustang and he would have liked for me to have been a squid but my checkered past precluded that. My birthday is the Marine Corps birthday and I went in on my 17th and they were drafting in the crotch at that time. I opted for the Army and it most likely saved my ass.
rikyrah
@Kay:
If there was ever a time to need a Prosecutor, it’s now. I’ve said it before, not only should Harris embrace it, she should embrace it NOW, and literally, everytime she opens her mouth, she should point to some criminality of Dolt45, his family or his cabinet. Just take that lane and fly with it.
joel hanes
@Baud:
CWD is the result of removing the wolves that should be controlling the population of deer. There are far more deer now in most places than there were when the Pilgrims landed, and it’s dramatically changed the ecology in ways that are invisible to almost everyone but gardeners.
The forests suffer the same damage from overbrowsing as your prized flowering crabs and tulips. You can look at a woodlot a quarter-mile away in early spring, and see the browse line.
I know, they’re lovely, and Bambi and everything, but at this point, they’re basically locusts with hooves.
joel hanes
@schrodingers_cat:
I work with several project manager women from India who are like that.
Job would make me insane with stress. They seem happy.
joel hanes
@Sab:
She just seems to be utterly unflappable.
Of all the Democratic candidates, Harris is the one Trump should truly fear debating. If she’s the nominee, I expect that there will be only one debate, because Trump will never consent to a second after she cuts him off at the knees and feeds him his feet during the first.
schrodingers_cat
@joel hanes: I doubt that they are happy, they are just more adept at hiding emotions. You can see why a hot head like me doesn’t quite fit that entire Bharatiya nari (Indian woman) ethos.
joel hanes
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Pat Paulsen
He of the immortal campaign slogan :
“We’re upping our standards. Up yours too!”
zhena gogolia
@rikyrah:
Yeah, I always get a sense of calming down when she talks like that.
Leto
@Raven: I have a mix in my family: Navy, Army, and MC. All of them, including extended family, said join the AF. Considering the time frame of my career, that probably saved me too.
rikyrah
@QUINERLY:
Hey Poco and the tribe ???
joel hanes
@MomSense:
how Native Americans feel about it
If that’s your concern, you should listen to Native Americans themselves, instead of ratfuckers talking over them. The tribal organizations have said that they view Warren as an ally.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elizabeth-warren-dna-test-native-american_n_5c19550fe4b0432554c512bb
rikyrah
@Kay:
???
The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) Tweeted:
Japanese oil tanker’s owner: Pentagon has it wrong on what happened during attack in Gulf https://t.co/4pbmP4XGJU https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1139481358139559936?s=17
BC in Illinois
@chopper:
Thank you.
Just want you to know that I am stealing it, repeatedly.
rikyrah
@Kay:
You are right – he’s desperate for a war.
sigh.
sigh.
O. Felix Culpa
@joel hanes: Exactly. It’s *curious* (not) that all the bloviating comes from non-Native individuals and real, actual Native Americans are at best selectively consulted. Any number of good quotes in that article (thank you for the link), but here’s one from the Representative from New Mexico, Deb Haaland, one of two Native women in the House:
IOW, let’s not stir up shit on behalf of a people group who are not offended and who view EW as an ally.
rikyrah
@MomSense:
This.
When I thought it was JUST the test…I was sympathetic to her bumbling of it. But, the other stuff is going to be the lingering problem..
Gelfling 545
@satby: I have some thoughts on this issue (and think you hit on a great strategy) as a middle school teacher of many years. Unless it is a clear case of neglect, it should not be an issue for the courts at all. It is often a mental health issue such as depression or an issue of circumstance such as the kids who have to wash their clothes in the sink and they aren’t dry by morning. And again, as with your child, it is an issue of boredom for the brighter, more creative students. ( “The fake world of school” was a description I came across when I was writing my thesis.) Sometimes it’s fear of bullying or violence. Meeting the student’s physical and emotional needs and making school a better place to be – as opposed to a standardized test assembly line – would go far to reduce truancy. Of course, that would mean that school districts would actually have to pay, social and medical services be expanded, etc, etc. We’re all about the kids in this country until it comes to parting with tax dollars.
I could never understand why people think educational outcomes are improved by making school a jail sentence.
Anya
@MLC: I agree with you. Her comment didn’t sit well with me. She shouldn’t say or imply that “her DOJ” will persecute Trump. She should assert the independence of the DOJ and not say anything that implies she’ll influence it.
O. Felix Culpa
@rikyrah:
I agree it would have been better in today’s world if she hadn’t marked herself as Native American in some tick boxes years ago. (I also think those racial ethnic tick boxes are problematic at best: my mixed-race children often have no suitable box to check off.) However, the record is clear that she gained NO ADVANTAGE from having done so. Any and every candidate will have made missteps. The question is whether their overall records outweighs the negatives and if they have learned from their mistakes and changed. I have heard terrible takes on Kamala the Cop from lefties, for example. I know it’s bullshit and so do you, but I’m not going to suggest Kamala should step down because her career path – with some questionable/vulnerable decisions along the way – makes her open to bullshit smears. I think the same applies to EW. The right-wing noise machine and certain lefties will attack and smear no matter what. Our folks just need to keep on being their best selves and f*ck (rather than amplify) the noise.
Philbert
Facts don’t matter regarding the Native American thing, there are papers and records showing her as NA, and the Rs will pillory her regardless. I think her morally-offended attitude will wear, however totally justified. How can anyone still be shocked at T?
Harris knows who we are dealing with, she’s nevert known Republicans to be other than what they are now.
There is a great pic of Warren in 1986, from the Texas Tribune. Not sure how to post or link, & I gotta go, but check it out.
Miss Bianca
@Matt McIrvin: Me, too. And that South Carolina endorsement is huge. Congratulations to Harris!
Kathleen
@Karen: Could age be a reason?
J R in WV
@Baud:
In humans, a similar disease is called Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD).
While the linked article at the National Institutes of Health doesn’t mention it, I understand that people in Kentucky who eat a stew called Bergoo, with squirrel brains in it rarely come down with this prion disease. Yumm! //
satby
@MomSense: not all Native Americans. Mainly the Cherokee Nation, which has had issues with tribal membership for a long time, and not just with Warren.
O. Felix Culpa
@satby: And it isn’t even the Cherokee Nation, just one non-official Cherokee person who had no authority to speak on behalf of the tribe.
Ruckus
@zhena gogolia:
Warren feels like Mom running. Not my mom, a Mom. She’s got all the answers, she’s got more than enough energy to keep up with the kids (us!) but she feels like Mom.
For some that would be, well a no. They most of the time love their mom but would never see her as a leader. She’s Mom with all the answers.
Now I realize in person she probably doesn’t come across that way, but most people won’t met her, they will see her on TV. They will see Mom running for president. For some that might even be a positive, but for many it might not.
I think that’s why she woos the people she mets and the people that pay attention. She comes across as a real individual, not slotted in that Mom role. And I think that for a lot of people if they even get a whiff of that idea, she’s Mom, they won’t vote for her.
Miss Bianca
@O. Felix Culpa: Dear sweet bleeding Jesus, THIS, a thousand times. It is no end of infuriating to me that most all the people who have elected themselves the Voice of Moral Outrage on this issue are neither Native Americans themselves, or have bothered to consult Native Americans on how *they* feel before spouting off on their alleged behalf.
satby
@raven: exactly how foster son got his records expunged and his GED, so he could join W’s Mesopotamian adventure.
O. Felix Culpa
@satby: So glad he made it back from W’s odious escapade.
James E Powell
@Brachiator:
Really? I’ve not heard this from anyone at the NYT or the WaPo or NPR or any cable shows. I’ve seen some online writers (do we still call them bloggers?) who point out that it was ridiculous. But I haven’t seen any apologies or acknowledgment that it was wrong.
Barbara
@MomSense:
Do you not understand that this will be the playbook with every candidate? It is ALWAYS THE TIME TO FIGHT THIS BATTLE.
James E Powell
The “Warren hasn’t explained/apologized/atoned for claiming Native American ancestry!!!” isn’t the “but her emails!!!” of this cycle. It’s the “she gave speeches to Goldman Sachs!!!” story. That is, it’s advanced by self-described lefties who will never under any circumstances vote for or support any Democratic candidate. They always have a story like this and the right-wingers make sure it gets enough circulation that it seems like an actual thing.
In 2000, the most environmentally alert candidate in the history of the country was slammed by the same type of people because he inherited stock in an oil company that trampled all over indigenous people in Peru. The fact that Gore sold the stock didn’t matter. The fact that he was running against Bush/Cheney who would have encouraged and bragged about trampling all over indigenous people didn’t matter. It was what they yelled about because they needed to say something when they were asked why they would not vote for the Democratic candidate.
Because she is the candidate, Warren cannot just tell these dipwads to STFU, but there is no other response that makes sense.
Kay
@satby:
The evidence on attendance and success in school is really overwhelming. There are kids who are smart enough not to show up, but they’re a tiny minority. Most, the vast majority, fall behind and can’t catch up. That’s what the truancy laws are for- the vast majority. These things swing back and forth. They backed off enforcement for a while- a decade or so- and it was bad. They weren’t graduating.
I 100% agree with Harris. It’s not popular but it’s necessary. California offers a whole host of services prior to pulling the lever on truancy. They also give them 15 days they can miss – Ohio allows 10. 15 missed days with no illness? That’s three weeks of school. If that’s not enough there’s something very wrong happening.
They can’t miss 15 days of work with no excuse and keep a job. That just isn’t going to be their reality. They have to show up.
It harms all the other kids in the class too, because if the absentees are in the vast majority and can’t keep up to the rest of the class, the teacher has to catch them up. So it’s a double whammy for low income kids, who are generally in low income schools so have a real hill to climb. Even if they show up and work hard they have to deal with classmates who don’t show up, slowing them down. That’s not fair.
Kathleen
@Baud: So sick of Dems and media kowtowing to that anal pustule
Kay
Public schools have finite funds too. So decide. If we want to allow unlimited missed days we are going to have to catch those kids up and that takes money because it takes time. So choose. We can allow unlimited missed days but then we have to pay for remediation which will mean we can’t pay for “gifted” services or field trips or art and music offerings.
It seems better to me to insist they show up and learn it at the same time everyone else is rather than pay for a second set of remedial classes for the no-shows which means all the other kids lose “extras”, but maybe I’m wrong.
I mean I would like to allow for all their personal preferences but we don’t have 40k per kid, so choices have to be made.
James E Powell
@Betty Cracker:
The part we don’t often talk about, perhaps because we despair of a solution in the short run, is that ~42% of American voters who enthusiastically support an obviously corrupt bigot who lies about everything. They are going to vote for him again.
The latest news from Wisconsin isn’t encouraging as that state, like my own beloved home state of Ohio, seems to have red-shifted in support of white supremacy. We have so much work to do and it is all going to be for naught if we don’t stop this intramural bickering over trivial matters.
Ruckus
@Gelfling 545:
Same reason why people think that just taking away your freedom isn’t enough when you go to jail.
They call it punishment and that means you have to suffer every minute. That’s their concept. It’s like the parents who spank their kids for every infraction. That becomes the norm, the expected. The kids are not respected as, well humans, they are kids. Or convicts. And they will remain that way until they or the kids/convicts die. It’s as if that label is a tattoo, that number on your arm, it forever follows you. Some look at the world as either – or. You are a good person or a bad person, it’s white or black. And every person or thing gets slotted into a place and stays there, because of course no one can ever change or grow.
J R in WV
@O. Felix Culpa:
elements of the left ?? There are fascists on the right and on the left, as the political spectrum is a circle, not a line. Stalin was a fascist of the left, just as his ally and enemy Mr. Hitler was a fascist of the right. They are a perfect example of a pair meeting on the fascist side of the political spectrum circle.
MomSense
@Barbara:
Wow. How about we have to CHOOSE OUR BATTLES. No, we don’t have to fight this battle every time. Some issues are easier to defend than others. In an election that determines whether or not our democratic republic survives I think it is reasonable to make the best possible case with the least risk.
I also am pissed at all the candidates who aren’t running for Senate this time. The GOP will have a lot more $ than we will. Make them spend it on senate races. That means running good candidates in typically red states the GOP usually sleepwalks in. Buttigieg jn Indiana, Beto and/or Castro in Texas, Abrams (not a pres candidate) in Tennessee, etc. I don’t give a fuck if it is a bad move for their careers personally. This is a crisis situation.
Also too I honestly think Warren’s skills are better suited to the Senate. I like her plans. She could be the new ? of the Senate.
J R in WV
@J R in WV:
As are Trump and Sanders…
Ruckus
@Philbert:
Facts don’t matter because Warren didn’t do anything wrong. Just like HRC didn’t do anything wrong with her emails or with with her GS speeches.
It’s a smear campaign. Smear campaigns work. And they work well even when that’s all the opposition has. And given their records smear campaigns are all they have. Smear campaigning is political talk for bullshit and lying. And the record can’t be righted because the record was never wrong. The bullshit and lying are what is wrong.
And of course you have to be wrong when the greatest racist moron ever not elected to the job does or says something because he could never do anything wrong, he’s the greatest racist moron ever not elected to office. Just like BS is the greatest lefty ever and has a great record of never making a mistake by not doing anything at all for his 25 yrs in office, like sullying himself by being a democrat. He’s as pure as the driven bullshit of his opponents.
J R in WV
@Philbert:
Elizabeth Warren before she changed her hair color!
She looks more Native American in this photo than I’ve seen her before. Now I understand how she was discriminated against in OK for her heritage, why her parents had to elope instead of having a nice family wedding.
Why she was willing to check those check boxes, that said she was willing to counsel kids with issues like those she saw as a kid in OK. Let’s remember she wasn’t seeking an advantage when she checked those boxes, she was volunteering to be available to counsel students encountering discriminatory issues!
Ruckus
@MomSense:
I’m of two minds on choosing our battles. By choosing no we are walking away from a fight that needs to happen. But – there certainly is a time an place for everything. But – maybe if we as a political party hadn’t walked away at the wrong times we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place. It’s complicated – because humans are involved.
I like Harris for president and Warren for senate and as it’s leader. We need those ideas for legislation in the senate, right now of course we only have grift and bullshit, because of McConnell. We need the senate and badly. With Warren and NP we’d have an awesome legislative body and Harris as someone to lead us who isn’t a racist moron like currently.
O. Felix Culpa
@J R in WV: No argument from me. To-may-to; to-mah-to. :)