This fucking guy:
The cat is out of the bag. The corporate wing of the Democratic Party is publicly "anybody but Bernie." They know our progressive agenda of Medicare for All, breaking up big banks, taking on drug companies and raising wages is the real threat to the billionaire class. https://t.co/zimci7JRO6
— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) June 19, 2019
What a fucking fuck-face. Including Medicare for All was a nice touch since Warren co-sponsored his damned bill.
At least Sanders is making it clear this run is all about his Trump-scale ego early in the race. Maybe this is why?
New Monmouth poll of 2020 Democrats
Biden 32% (-1 since May)
Warren 15% (+5)
Sanders 14% (-1)
Harris 8% (-3)
Buttigieg 5% (-1)
O’Rourke 3% (-1)
Booker 2% (+1)
Yang 2% (+1)
de Blasio 1% (-)
Gabbard 1% (-)
Inslee 1% (+1)
Klobuchar 1% (-2)
Williamson 1% (-)
[everyone else <1%]— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) June 19, 2019
Can’t wait to see that old turd flushed down the drain, and the sooner the better.
mad citizen
I’ve never understood why Wilmer is allowed to run as a Democrat at all. Probably to much to hope he loses ground next week post-debate, but here’s hoping. More likely Biden falls after looking out of touch. Sanders has too much of a cult following.
schrodingers_cat
Are Corporate Dems the new neo-liberal shills?
The Dangerman
Not ego, pure ratfucker (see Stein, Jill)
dmsilev
If you define “the Democratic establishment” as “everybody who is not a Bernie Sanders supporter”, it becomes much easier to claim that the establishment is opposed to Sanders.
TenguPhule
Speaking of Assholes, we’re not going to have much of a federal government left at the rate the GOP is breaking everything.
TenguPhule
That’s it. This timeline has officially jumped the shark.
Roger Moore
@mad citizen:
I think the size of Bernie’s true cult following is pretty small; they’re just incredibly loud on social media and get a helping hand from media figures who want to cause chaos for the Democrats. If he’s reduced to just his cult, he won’t finish higher than fourth or fifth.
feebog
Wilmer has plenty of ideas, none of which has ever come to fruition. Warren has plans, and there is a difference. Details matter. Moreover, Wilmer does not own the ideas, he may have espoused them for a long time, but so have others. The sooner he drops below 10% and stays there the better.
Betty Cracker
@The Dangerman: I’ve been extremely skeptical of that claim, but stuff like this really does make me wonder.
trollhattan
Where’s my “This fuckin’ guy” tag?
This fuckin’ guy. What has he accomplished as a senator? Buhler? Anybody?
ET
I would think that corporations would love Medicare for all because they could slowly or not so slowly, get rid of their insurance to employees. I think corporations would have other reasons for an anybody but Bernie decision.
germy
They’re walking that tweet back.
The Moar You Know
@mad citizen: Can’t stop anyone from running as whatever they want. I could run as a Republican. I’ve thought of doing that: as Trump supposedly said, they are suckers who will believe anything.
“Yeah, I was a lifelong Democrat and then they elected Obama. I just want my country back, y’know?” BAM. Salary, full healthcare and pension for life, and free office space. Don’t tell me I couldn’t win just by saying that. They’d be lining up to empty their pockets. As Trump already figured out.
But my original point: you can’t stop anyone from running as a member of a particular party, or joining that party out of convenience. What you CAN do is give them no money or media, and that’s where the Dems have fallen down hard WRT Wilmer. He should not be in the debates, but there’s enough idiot Dems who buy what he’s selling to insure that we can’t give him the boot without serious consequences. And Wilmer deciding not to caucus with the Dems would be pretty serious. We need every Senate vote we can get.
SFAW
I don’t have nearly as much hate for Joe Biden as some of my fellow jackals — although his Eastland stupidity is somewhat of a “WTAF?” moment for me — but I’m wondering if the solution is to have the two oldest guys in the race get locked in a room, and told neither can leave until his opponent is “not pining, he’s passed on.” No guns allowed, but baseball bats are OK. We’ll see if the guy from Brooklyn is as tough as Brooklynites are supposed to be. [NB: Brooklynites of the olden days, not the latter-day yuppies (whatever they’re called now).]
trollhattan
Programming note: As a productivity enhancer I must decide between Japan-England and Scotland-Argentina to squint at on my tiny phone. Which colored dots will be more fun to watch?
Leaning towards the first. Both @ noon, PT.
Jeffro
How do we start a “Let’s Just Lop Off the Bottom 15 Candidates” movement here? (I should probably start by calling it something better than ‘LJLOTB15C’)
Because everyone polling at 1-2% really oughta get the hint. This is at most an 8-candidate race (more like 5-6). Fill out your cabinet post preferences on the Scan-tron sheet, Bottom 15, and then just drop the sheet in the box by the door. Thanks for stopping by!
Betty Cracker
@germy: Yeah, because they got blasted to hell and back on Twitter.
SFAW
@trollhattan:
Helped get Shitgibbon elected?
Libraryguy
And this from Sanders is in response to a frigging article in Politico!
Seriously, if you’re attacking Dems based on click-bait from Politico (or The Hill), how are you different from DJT? And how mindlessly reactive do you have to be to take anything they say seriously?
rikyrah
Being a graduate of @HowardU and a proud member of @akasorority1908 changed my life. Today, I’m excited to announce we’ve launched a national program to mobilize HBCU and Black fraternity and sorority members with our campaign. #ForThePeople pic.twitter.com/vY1oz7ihpj
— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) June 19, 2019
trollhattan
@germy:
“That thing that I said, I didn’t really say that and I may or may not say something else about that at some other time.”
I want him gone.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SFAW: I endorse, though I suspect it would just be that thing where Biden laughed and put a hand on Sanders’s head while Wilmer furiously windmilled at him at and bellowed, “Why, you! I oughta… I’ll kill you a million times!”
Eljai
I LOVE Elizabeth Warren, but I’m skeptical of that Politico article that quotes Third Way bullpuckey. On the other hand, Sanders was foolish enough to take the bait. Ain’t got time for that kind of dumbfuckery this election cycle.
Chyron HR
@germy:
FWIW, when Bernie led his followers in a deranged chant of “FUCK HILLARY!” he was complimenting her on remaining sexually active into her golden years.
Libraryguy
@germy: Would have been a lot easier if they had referenced Third Way to begin with….
trollhattan
@SFAW:
There is that. “Thanks, maaaan.”
SFAW
@The Moar You Know:
Has Bernie become a Democrat? I missed that, I guess I should pay more attention to the news.
Jeffro
@germy: that’s dumb (not that I want him to be successful) – what does he think, he’ll slowly woo over Warren supporters by pretending it’s just him and Biden in the race? Win over the rest of the Dem primary voters with his charming personality?
rikyrah
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA
germy
@Chyron HR:
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: I bet that no Brooklynite is a match for the girl from Mumbai. Although I have probably gone soft in my years in New England.
Baud
@SFAW:
Fixed
germy
Baud
@germy:
I doubly hate him for making me cheer the Third Way.
SFAW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Where I grew up, I think it was “I’ll murdelize ya!”
Be that as it may: if you recall, I included baseball bats. That negates the “reach” factor. And, although I’m a Louisville Slugger kind-of-guy, I think aluminum would be better suited (because they’d be less likely to break prematurely).
gsp
Strange, I don’t have the same visceral response as most of you. For me he is perhaps the most consistent politician I’ve ever seen and has been on the right side of history on all important issues. I’m not sure I can say that about too many others.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
Maybe no current Brooklynite, but “back in the day”? Sorry, no.
schrodingers_cat
Why is this a surprise, did you guys not watch BS in 2016? He tried to sandbag HRC at every turn. He is not worth crawling over broken glass for.
artem1s
Wilmer’s fundraising must be running dry. He’s just pissed Biden is sucking in the big bucks. Attacking big business and government has always played well with glibertarians and Russian bots. Next tweet will be boasting how many $27 donations he pulled in a day.
Kick him out of the debates. He’s not a Democrat.
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: What did Brooklynites do back in the day? Also which day? Gangs of the NY days?
Do you know how Mumbai got rich in the British days?
Opium trade.
jk
@SFAW:
I want clueless Uncle Joe swept away in the same flush as Bernie. They’re both unacceptable options. The longer dumb ass Biden stays in this race the more idiotic gaffes we’ll have to endure. If this dope gets the nomination, Republican oppo researchers will have a field digging up all the moronic statements he’s made through the decades.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Hopefully, we’ll never have to, but if it came to that, it wouldn’t be for him we would be crawling over broken glass for, but for Trump’s victims.
germy
Chyron HR
@gsp:
This may surprise you, but “history” is an actual, objectively observable thing that exists separately from Bernie’s lies about being the leader of the civil rights and gay rights movements.
SFAW
@gsp:
Are you talking about Bernie? If so: it’s lovely that he’s “been on the right side of history on all important issues,” but that and five bucks will get you a Starbucks kiddie cup. When he actually accomplishes something (i.e., legislation), maybe I’ll revise my opinion. But “changing the conversation,” or whatever Bernie thinks he’s done, hasn’t really provided many tangible positive results.
SFAW
@germy:
She seems angry.
NotMax
@jk
Yup. What’s he gonna do with naked racism, compromise?
“All right, you can have one slave, but no more.”
//
joel hanes
@feebog:
Wow. There’s a nym I remember that I haven’t seen much recently.
Howdy!
the Conster
If Biden’s only contribution to this cycle is sinking Wilmer, I can live with that. I want Warren to stop with the nonsense about other candidates doing *fancy* fundraisers though. I don’t care who wants to fight fascism when money is flooding into the GOP, again.
rikyrah
Happy Birthday, Kay ?????????
Ohio Mom
@ET: Oh, I agree that corporations are definitely looking forward to getting out of paying for their employees’ health coverage but I suspect the model they’re aiming for is similar to the one they used to get out of paying for pensions: make each employee take care of it by themself, in a controlled and limited private market.
I have no doubt that corporations get various forms of kickbacks from the companies they force their employees to use for their 401ks, and that they’ll figure out something along those lines for health coverage.
Medicare for All sounds like corporations would end up paying more taxes, and they are allergic to that.
Medicare for All would also give employees a bit more (albeit indirect) autonomy and agency since Medicare is a government program and we all elect the people who are ultimately responsible for Medicare’s administration. Corporations are also allergic to anything that makes their employees less beholden to him. They like us insecure.
Steve in the ATL
@SFAW: they’re called “hipsters”
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I am convinced that he will be worse for Ds than T has been. He will be inept and his policies will fail. MSM won’t give him the cover that it gives T and his party. If he becomes the nominee and wins the presidency. It will kill brand D for a generation if not more.
Steve in the ATL
@Ohio Mom: companies use benefits as a retention tool as well. If everyone has health insurance regardless of employment, that’s one less incentive to stay at a job you hate.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@schrodingers_cat: A hypothetical Bernie/(who the fuck would agree to be his running mate? can you imagine?) ticket would also, I suspect, set records for negative coat tails
rikyrah
Ta-Nehisi Coates dismantles Mitch McConnell’s excuse for opposing reparations on live TV
“For a century after the Civil War, black people were subjected to a relentless campaign of terror, a campaign that extended well into the lifetime of Mitch McConnell.”
ADAM PECK
JUN 19, 2019, 2:19 PM
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
I didn’t realize you were involved in the opium trade, I thought you were a lot younger than that.
Gin & Tonic
@gsp:
Please list his major political/legislative accomplishments. Take your time.
PaulWartenberg
Dear Bernie Sanders:
Maybe the reason most Democrats don’t like you is that you’re an egomaniacal sonofabitch who is NOT A TEAM PLAYER.
I don’t even think you’re a dues-paying member of the party, you lazy deadbeat!
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: You funny. I was doing a hypothetical match up between old-timey Brooklynite with an old timey Mumbaikar.
Seriously one of the richest philanthropists of yore from Mumbai, Jeejeebhoi Jamshedshee made all his profits from the opium trade. Many old educational institutions still bear his. JJ School of Arts, Kipling’s father taught, JJ hospital etc.
chopper
but of course they are. mostly as you’re a self-aggrandizing fucksmeller who hasn’t met a person he hasn’t shit all over in service of your ginormous ego. fuck you, bernie.
Mike in NC
Trump is Putin’s #1 favorite asset, and Bernie Sanders is his #2.
trollhattan
Ooh, Japan’s keeper makes a BIG error.
the Conster
@Mike in NC:
My working theory is that he’s running to ratfuck Dems again as a quid pro quo for Trump’s DOJ letting Jane Sanders off the hook for bank fraud. Jeff Weaver announced that the FBI *closed* the investigation the same week as the Blue Wave, and that’s never been confirmed in any other reporting. I don’t believe in that kind of coincidence.
PaulWartenberg
@Gin & Tonic:
He kept Hillary from getting 68 million voters and likely winning FL, PA, MI, and WI.
Immanentize
@trollhattan:
Better in the original language of Darth Vader:
chopper
@Chyron HR:
lawyer: well what about that tattoo on your chest? doesn’t it say “die bart die”?
sideshow bob: no, that’s german. for “the bart. the.”
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Some crackpot with a rose in their Twitter handle.
@Mike in NC: Indeed.
Immanentize
@gsp:
Gun control leaps to mind. As does Daniel Ortega who is a bad man.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
Well, when you said “the girl from Mumbai,” I surmised — perhaps incorrectly — that you were speaking of yourself. [I expect you’ve mentioned your original home city/area in the past, but I can’t recall.]
Also: thanks for the language lesson, “Mumbaikar” was an unfamiliar term to me.
schrodingers_cat
@Immanentize: And love for all things Soviet.
ETA: You can also add opposition to immigration to that list.
Roger Moore
@Steve in the ATL:
This. Though with health insurance that retention is much more negative than positive; employees are more terrified of losing coverage than they are enticed by very generous plans.
the Conster
@gsp:
His gun votes are disqualifying, and that’s before we even get to his rape fantasy essays and his creepy obsession with young girls sexual activity. Oh, and he was a deadbeat dad who didn’t vote until he was 40, and then for himself.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Possibly. But if God is dead and he becomes the nominee, I’m not playing the typical progressive game of helping Republicans win in the hopes that it will play dividends down the line.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: That’s why we must defeat him in the primaries.
Chetan Murthy
@gsp: What? Bernie “concentration camps at the border for asylum-seekers” has been on the right side of history? Uh, no. Not even on the same continent as the right side.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
To be fair, Mueller showed that Russia loved him back.
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
It ‘soitanly’ weren’t all song and dance.
;)
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: I was doing both. Especially when you introduced old-time tough Brooklynites. NYC is the one city that reminds me the most of Mumbai. Other cities are too nice in comparison, if you know what I mean.
SFAW
@Steve in the ATL:
So that’s where Jacob Wohl goes to find his coffee bars?
Chyron HR
@schrodingers_cat:
There! Proof, PROOF that Democrats are conspiring to rig the primaries against Bernie by voting for other candidates!
SiubhanDuinne
.
EDIT: No idea what just happened ?
NotMax
@SFAW
The classics never go out of style.
:)
trollhattan
Rachel Daly doing Rachel Daly things. Good work by Japan’s keeper.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Exactly. Sanders might very well make an ineffective president and damage the Democratic Party brand. But he wouldn’t cage children, terrorize immigrant communities, encourage police brutality, violate the emoluments clause every day, authorize discrimination against LGBTQ people, gin up mobs against the press, authorize drilling on federal lands, roll back fuel efficiency standards, appoint polluters to run the EPA, etc., etc., etc. Please sweet Jeebus let this hypothetical NOT come to pass, but if it’s Sanders vs. Trump, goddamned right I’ll crawl over broken glass to vote for Sanders.
trollhattan
@NotMax:
“Why are you chanting ‘opium, opium, opium’?”
“I’m not, I’m changing ‘OPM, OPM’. Stands for other people’s money.”
Coming to a real estate investment seminar near you.
BobbyK
And fuck all you fucking Bernie haters on this web site. He ALONE pulled the Democratic Party to the left – kicking and screaming the entire way. Bernie wants to win the primary, the SAME as the rest of ’em. Once the primary starts those biden “supporters” are going to disappear as the Democratic primary voters won’t be voting for him.
trollhattan
@BobbyK:
He sounds like quite this fella, this imaginary guy of yours.
Kay
@rikyrah:
Thanks. We’re having ice cream cake. Which I have to pick up at the Dairy Queen, because I am the cake-getter. How sad, right? I have to ask them to decorate it! I’m going to pretend it’s for someone else so they don’t talk about me after I leave.
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
After that horrific story that broke yesterday about Patrick Shanahan’s son, I’m pretty sure baseball bats aren’t OK either :-(
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: Y’know, my heart’s really with Warren first, but I’m keeping my eye on Harris. If she can mobilize African-American voters – and it looks like she certainly has a game plan for doing that -she is going to win the nomination. Which would, ftr, also be just fine with me!
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: Happy Birthday, Balloon Juice Kautilya. Ice-cream cake sounds like fun. I made Mango Kulfi yesterday. Not bad for a first attempt.
Chyron HR
@Betty Cracker:
I bet he would if it was the trade-off for getting Medicare for All Real Americans passed.
Ladyraxterinok
@the Conster: Verrry interrresting!
NotMax
@Kay
Just occurred to me that with commenters named Jay and Kay, we’ve got a whole Men in Black thing goin’ on here.
:)
Aleta
@Kay:
? Happy Birthday ?
Suzy
Well, the mask is off. What his emotional reaction shows is that he views himself as “The Savior” of the working class. The ONLY one.
Give a man power, and he shows his true self.
Illustration: 2016 campaign. When he began to think he had a chance, he abandoned his pledge of not attacking Hillary and treated her like sh***. He continued to weaken her even after it was mathematically possible for him to get the nomination. I’ll NEVER forget the continuous booing from some of his supporters, at the national convention. As their leader, he was responsible for that. His endorsement was half-hearted and it showed.
Strip power for a man, and he shows his true self.
Illustration: right now. He’s losing votes to Elisabeth Warren and he is pissed.
As for Elisabeth Warren, I hope she keeps he ego in check. I’m concerned a bit.
Chyron HR
@BobbyK:
Goddamn, at least last time you guys managed to wait until Bernie was actually losing primaries before you started screaming obscenities at Democrats 24/7 in lieu of campaigning.
Brachiator
@BobbyK:
This might be impressive if it were true. And maybe if Bernie was a member of the Democratic Party.
James E Powell
@BobbyK:
Does Sanders understand how many people despise him because they believe he helped put Trump in the White House? Do his followers?
Sanders’s response to this is to ignore it. His followers’ responses range from attacks on Hillary Clinton to FU!
You can argue that it’s factually inaccurate. You can argue that it’s not fair. But you can’t seriously believe that it doesn’t matter.
Scotian
Warren is the reality that Sanders claims to be. He espouses lofty rhetorical verbiage for noble aims and goals, yet when pressed has ZERO actual ideas, let alone actual planning for making it go from imagination and rhetoric to reality.
Warren has all the visionary aspects of Sanders, her crucial difference is she not only knows what she wants and articulates it well, she also knows how to turn it into reality. THAT, more than anything else shows the vapidity of Sanders and the substantial reality that is Warren. No wonder she is overtaking him, and no wonder why team Sanders finds her such a threat.
She is
Kay
@schrodingers_cat:
Thanks. The ladies at the courthouse got me sour patch kids which I’m embarrassed that I must have told them I love. Apparently I just babble all kinds of things at them. They’re such good listeners, to remember that. Unless I say it a lot. I hope not.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
I used to think lonely old fart but a number of years ago came to the same conclusion, he is an ego driven narcissistic rat fucker. His way is the only way. He is not as narcissistic as drumpf for sure but he far from the normal.
The Moar You Know
@BaghdadBobbyK: More like BaghdadBobbyK amirite?
tobie
@Jeffro: I’m willing to wait for the first debate before recommending that anyone drop out but after that the field should narrow. But I’d also like pollsters to up their game. Monmouth’s latest poll was nationwide and yet the sample was limited to 306 voters. I gather only 18 people were polled in NY. This strikes me — an admitted non-expert — as ridiculously small.
the Conster
@BobbyK:
What did he do? Truman wanted universal health care and every social program in the US was passed by Democrats. Where was Bernie Sanders when Joe Lieberman was threatening to filibuster the whole ACA over the public option being included? What legislation did he champion that accomplished anything progressive? He championed a bill to dump nuclear waste on poor Latinos in Texas – is that what you were thinking of?
schrodingers_cat
@Chyron HR: His Senate voting record is fairly anti-immigrant. He was an ally of the anti-immigrant wing in the senate, comprised of Grassley and Sessions. Don’t forget that Miller was Sessions aide before working for T admin.
Beto and Castro have have some serious policy proposals on immigration not BS.
SFAW
@BobbyK:
Well, I wouldn’t say Bernie was kicking and screaming the ENTIRE time. He might also have been stamping his little feetsies, not unlike Asset #1. But, you’re right, he and his Bern-or-Bust-ers threw an extended temper tantrum because neoliberal shill and Trump clone Hillary Clinton beat him like a drum during the primaries. Why did she have to be so MEAN, right?
trollhattan
@Scotian:
Warren essentially gave us CFPB and then when freaked out Republicans refused to allow her to run it (and boy, what a crazy idea that would have been) she takes off the sting of defeat by running for senate. And winning.
Anybody looking for a leader with a track record of setting and achieving goals might give her a look.
Kay
Good sign that the big loudmouth is making excuses. You know they read polls all day long, desperately searching for a good one to bring him so he doesn’t scream obscenities at them.
SiubhanDuinne
@Scotian:
I’ve been thinking about you and holding you in the light. Very glad you’re commenting.
chopper
@BobbyK:
this is like that “reagan defeated communism” bullshit isn’t it.
Ruckus
@The Moar You Know:
The concept of course is that anyone can be a democrat, we welcome everyone. Problem is of course that a way too large segment of the population has let their batshit/bullshit flag represent them and they really don’t fit in to the party.
Betty Cracker
@Kay:
LOL!
????
ruemara
@gsp: lol
@BobbyK: double lol. We were more left than him to begin with.
SFAW
@NotMax:
I, for one, will be surprised if they get Tommy Lee Jones to play our own Kay in her biopic.
Hob
Just to belabor the obvious: that Politico story, by way of explaining what “the Democratic establishment” thinks, quoted four people. None of them was an elected official, an employee of an elected official or of a government agency, or an employee of the Democratic Party. Unless it’s some clever meta-commentary where Politico is commenting on its own decision to push this point of view, i.e. calling itself “the Democratic establishment”, this is thin even by their standards.
Betty Cracker
@tobie: That does seem like a minuscule sample.
Brachiator
@Baud:
We could probably just leave it at this.
kindness
I don’t hate Bernie. Honestly I don’t really care about Bernie other than I think he’s a crank. BernieBros on the other hand seem to think that driving Democrats to vote for Trump is a win. Them I can’t stand. And yea, the tweets in that thread are what we see daily. It’s become clear to me that many BernieBros are women haters.
The Moar You Know
@Kay: Closest we will ever see to him admitting that he’s getting pasted.
I have concerns about the transfer of power in 2021. I think he may be…difficult.
That is of course assuming he loses. I don’t take that as a given, even with the polls. There’s a lot of dumb, shitty people in this country. Turns out more than I thought.
Ohio Mom
@Kay: I bet a week doesn’t go by that the DQ staff isn’t decorating a cake honoring the wife/mother standing in front of them with the credit card in her hand, ready to swipe. They are going to peg you immediately.
Happy Birthday and many more to you! This place wouldn’t be the same without you.
zhena gogolia
@Mike in NC:
p. 23 Mueller report: “Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest (except Sanders and Trump — we support them).” GRU-created troll farm instructions
SFAW
@Ohio Mom:
Seconded, thirded, fourthed, fifthed …..
As far as I’m concerned “this place” includes Ohio. Thanks for all that you’ve done and continue to do, Kay!
Ruckus
@SFAW:
Also aluminum bats make a more pleasing sound when they hit a skull.
Chyron HR
@kindness:
If only the tsar knew!
Cacti
Someone made the point in an earlier thread that for all of the pissing and moaning the Wilmerites did about Hillary “clearing the field”, Wilmer benefitted enormously from being the default “not Hillary” candidate.
Turns out campaigning is a bit tougher when it isn’t a two person race. Boo hoo hoo.
lamh36
@rikyrah:
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
Now if you had to crawl over broken glass to get away from him……
Brachiator
@tobie:
This is not necessarily a problem. This is part of what sampling is all about.
A larger problem is fewer people having land lines or being willing to participate in polls at all.
I could throw in the usual cautions about the use and misuse of polls by the general public, but polling is like astrology. Wrong but easy to talk about.
Gravenstone
@The Dangerman: I think this is pure Cult of Bernie in action. Any attempts to act as a spoiler to benefit Trump is purely coincidental. He’s only lashing out at those he perceives as a threat – to himself.
Yutsano
@Brachiator: So much to parse in comment from nym we’ve barely seen before. So little time.
At least for me. But that’s only because I have appointments in my office that require my attention.
Brachiator
@kindness:
I endorse this. Totally.
The Moar You Know
@Brachiator: Was pretty much what I majored in, back in college. Obviously the more respondents you have, the more certainty you have in your results, but this doesn’t strike me as being grossly inadequate.
It’s a problem. And it doesn’t have to be, but is, because people are very reluctant to give their race, income, party affiliation, age and all that data that pollsters NEED to be able to sample accurately. Sad because they certainly haven’t been reluctant to give it to Facebook, etc, who are actively using that data to fuck them over daily.
Go figure.
ETA: I guarantee that Facebook already knows who the winner of the 2020 race will be. State by state. Their numbers will be off by such a small margin it’s not even worth discussing.
Gravenstone
@SFAW:
But with a nice sharp shard of hardened wood in hand, you can switch to stabbing rather than simply bludgeoning.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@gsp:
If you mean, most consistently ineffective, then sure.
lamh36
Ruckus
@Steve in the ATL:
Always amazed me that a company can’t see that making a place to work better for the employees is cheap compared to having to replace them regularly. But then I remember that phrase, Must Be Asshole, people who can only tell time by the quarter.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@James E Powell: He’s as unable as Trump is to expand his voting bloc. Why would any HRC voter vote for him this time?
Major Major Major Major
Bernie’s best shot at winning the primary is a Biden flop followed by an intra-party war, with him taking a plurality to a brokered convention. He knows this, and it’s his strategy, and this is what it looks like.
kindness
@lamh36: I saw a reparations thread going over at LG&M today. It isn’t going well. Seems as if reparations is an issue that not all liberals agree on. I do not think that in 2020 Democrats should lead with Reparations as an issue. But then again, I don’t support race based solutions. i prefer economically based solutions.
lamh36
The best thing you’ll see all day guys I promise you ???
Chyron HR
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
It depends, does God send another bird down to mark him as the chosen one?
Aleta
That cat would rather crouch inside the bag than cooperate and give credit.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
Must be difficult to see reality with that much stardust in your way – and Bobby has just given us proof.
Ohio Mom
@Major Major Major Major: That was my big worry for a while, then I got distracted and forgot it. Thanks for reminding me…
SFAW
@Ruckus:
Not sure I want to know how you know this.
Gelfling 545
@feebog: I have this argument with my niece. She likes his ideas. Well, say I, you have the same ideas. How will you put them in practice? I wouldn’t know how to, says she. Neither does he, say I .
Panurge
@SFAW:
Not yet, anyway, what with Don Trump in office. But that has to happen first before anything else can. These things take much more time and effort than anyone wants, and we just have to accept that, put our shoulders to the wheel, and celebrate each little success as a step forward.
lamh36
@kindness:No need to worry about it being a part of the 2020 discussion it won’t be.
when it comes to uncomfortable discussions about race in America, it is the one subject that makes white people across the spectrum, Dem to Conserv so uncomfortable most a presidential candidates don’t bring it up.
Doesn’t mean those conversations shouldn’t happen
tobie
@Brachiator: Polling’s an art and it’s gotten very complicated in the digital age. I don’t envy any of the number crunchers in the business.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Panurge:
Um, you are aware that Sanders has been in elective office for 30+ years, correct? That’s been more than enough time to have some kind of legislative achievement. His record shows that he’s a lightweight at best and an anti-immigrant, gun industry supporting egomaniac at worst
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Huh. I figured it was just Sirota getting out over his skis, but you’re probably right.
Citizen Alan
@BobbyK:
Everything that Bernie ever claimed to stand for has been put out of our reach for generations, in large part because his monumental ego prevented him from every supporting anyone who wasn’t him.
Ruckus
@tobie:
That’s .001 percent of the population. Not a very good sample. It is shit from a statistical view.
Gelfling 545
@trollhattan: He has the worst personal qualities of both Trump and Biden.
* I’m fond of Biden but he’s the product of another age and WAY too nostalgic for it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Trump and the Rs are in the process of doing deep, wide damage to the country. Whoever comes after them will face a gigantic challenge. IMHO, neither Sanders nor Biden is up to it. I think Warren and Harris are our best options, but I feel guilty for wishing it on them
Ruckus
@SFAW:
Ya just gotta take my word.
Kent
@mad citizen:
Because the counter-narrative where he is not allowed to run would be worse. You’d have Bernie on the Democratic Socialist ticket running as the 2020 version of Ralph Nader and guaranteeing the election for Trump.
I don’t object to having him in the primary because the alternative would be worse. And I mostly trust Democrats to do the right thing when it comes to picking their nominee. They usually do.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Ruckus:
From what I understand, samples are supposed to be representative of a given population to be accurate. I admit I could be missing something tho
matt
While it is weird to watch Sanders campaigning like a Republican in a Democratic primary, maybe the other candidates can learn something from facing this kind of opposition.
Major Major Major Major
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: this is usually accomplished by weighting, not sampling, since the odds of getting a representative sample on the line are pretty low.
matt
@The Moar You Know: Yeah, I’m old enough to remember when Lyndon Fuckin’ Larouche ran as a Democrat.
Major Major Major Major
@Ruckus:
Are the huge 5,000-person polls, which have proven quite accurate over the years, more to your liking, even though they’re .01%?
Ohio Mom
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I think Biden could be up to it IF we had both Houses and they led the way. That’s a very big IF of course.
Bernie I don’t trust as far as I could throw anything over five pounds (I’m a weakling).
FlipYrWhig
He’s got brass balls for a guy who’s been stuck at 15% for months upon months. Maybe THE ESTABLISHMENT isn’t keeping him down, he’s keeping himself down, on account of being unable to connect with people this time around, on account of being an abrasive suckbag with aggressively obnoxious thin-skinned followers.
Cacti
So, you’re a class reductionist?
tobie
The Post and TPM have slightly dueling interpretations of a Fed Judge’s decision to re-hear whether the Trump administration’s decision to include a citizenship question was racially discriminatory based on new evidence. Post hedges its bets — the Judge may reconsider the ruling. TPM says the judge will reconsider it. Whatever the case — the new evidence has led the judge to re-open the hearing on this questions. This is good news.
Betty Cracker
@tobie: I’m confused about how that case bears on the expected SCOTUS ruling or vice versa. Got any links handy that explain that? Thanks!
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
Very cute!
mrmoshpotato
@lamh36: That was really funny. Thanks for posting it.
Steve in the ATL
Jeez. There must have been a sale today at Trolls R Us.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Major Major Major Major:
Thanks! It’s been a few years since college statistics
mrmoshpotato
@Steve in the ATL:
But but but the primary was rigged against Wilmer by having 4 million more people vote for his opponent! /S
NotMax
@ mrmoshpotato
Bernmites gnaw voraciously on could-a would-a.
rikyrah
Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) Tweeted:
Ta-Nehisi Coates: This is about citizenship. Tells us we are heirs to the nation’s “credits and its debits. If Thomas Jefferson matters, so does Sally Hemings.” #HR40 #ReparationsHearing t.co/7YLPL8JJHc twitter.com/Sifill_LDF/status/1141358674029502466?s=17
TenguPhule
@Steve in the ATL:
Pretty sure they were bought up by a vulture fund which proceeded to strip them and dump the survivors here.
CarolDuhart2
@NotMax: And its’ now a never will, most likely. Biden has a commanding lead, and Warren is now ahead of him. I expect a surge too from Kamela and even Mayor Pete. And I think Bernie and others are now panicking. This is his last chance ever, and he knows it-and can’t deal with it. If Biden somehow lost the nomination, he would at least accept it, go on, and support the winner. Not Bernie.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Steve in the ATL: the Bernie Bot Bat Signal seems to be in operation.
joel hanes
Warren has plans, and has demonstrated her ability to effect those plans through legislation. .
Sanders has morally-motivated goal statements, but no plan to achieve them. Further, he doesn’t seem to have any ability to formulate a plan, nor even really to recognize that a plan is needed.
She does. He postures.
If elected, she will use the Presidency to accomplish things.
If elected, he will be the President.
cokane
that sanders tweet has Sirota’s fingeprints all over it. The man really has hired some major league idiots on his campaign
tobie
@Betty Cracker: I wish I knew the answer to that question. It’s bugging me too. I’ll see what I can find online and post any interesting links tomorrow.
cokane
as others have said, it’s noticeable that Warren and even Biden have spend, afaik, zero time attacking other Democrats. positivity is ultimately what’s going to play to voters in the dem primary, that’s why obama > clinton, in the only really close race we’ve seen in a generation of primaries.
Bobby Thomson
Going ad hominem against the supporters of other candidates is a SUPERGENIUS strategy for the Iowa caucuses and I encourage Wilmer to continue boldly.
SFAW
@NotMax:
Not your best work, but not bad.
Betty Cracker
@tobie: Thanks! I’ll see what I can dig up too, and we can compare notes. :)
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: I love those too. Also Starburst sour candies. If you like sour stuff you will like stuff made from unripe green mangoes, kokum and tamarind.
Also too, cranberries!
Bobby Thomson
@BobbyK: oh fuck the hell off, you ahistorical dumbass. We were there and you are so full of shit it’s oozing out your ears.
debbie
@mad citizen:
He should not be allowed on the stage until he registers as a Democrat.
debbie
@Kay:
Happy birthday, but you should not have to be getting your own freakin’ birthday cake.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Both of them are volunteering. Never turn down a great volunteer. Are they up to the challenge? I’d bet either one is. Doesn’t mean they will be successful, shit for brains has once again done his best to make a bad situation into a massive disaster.
Ruckus
@debbie:
If I want cake, I have to get or make my own. Sometimes that’s just how it is, which doesn’t mean I’m disagreeing with you about Kay.
J R in WV
@Scotian:
Well said !!! Quoted for truth, also too.
plato
J R in WV
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
This is true, as far as it goes. But the larger the sample is, the closer the sample identifies with the population as a whole. So, as the sample size increases, the margin of error shrinks, also.
This is really important statistically. It was really hard for me back in the school daze in 1982-83, partly because it was taught by a Grad Asst who was just going by the book, didn’t quite understand the base rules himself.
Still, I made Bs both semesters. Maths is hard for me. In Calc I made C C+ and B in the three 5 hour classes I took with math majors, which I was not one of.
J R in WV
@Scotian:
I thot about it again, and think this is better. Still, your thought inside the fix!
Irony Abounds
Bernie’s initials aren’t BS just because his name is Bernie Sanders. Really tired of him. My other question is who the fuck is supporting Williamson? Gabbard is horrible but I understand her getting some support from the same wackos that supported Jill Stein, but why some new age meta physical type, who, btw, ran for Congress as an independent and thus is another person using the Party on a rental basis.
Brachiator
@The Moar You Know:
Yep. People don’t trust pollsters or don’t want to be bothered or don’t want to spend time answering questions. Also, as people move to using cellphones, many don’t want to be bothered by spammy, intrusive calls. Bottom line, it’s tougher to build a good sample.
This is not just a Facebook thing. The wide usage of the Internet makes data aggregation and data mining possible to a degree not previously possible. This creates possibilities for benign use as well as terrible abuse.
Brachiator
@SFAW:
I think this also works:
Miss Bianca
@lamh36: Doesn’t make me uncomfortable. I’m all for the reparations discussion, if only for the wing-nut head explosions.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
IMO, I think that the more recent reparations advocates are making a good case by highlighting more recent issues like Jim Crow, redlining, etc because a lot of those actions are within living memory. You can point to how living people were affected and continue to be affected, which helps prevent anti-reparations folks from whining about how they’re being punished for actions of 200 years ago. No, they’re being asked to make reparations for the actions of their parents and grandparents that they PERSONALLY benefited from.
MisterForkbeard
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah. This is my thought too, and it’s the problem I have with Bernie. He’s trying to divide the party because it gives him a better shot, including things like this where he implies that even Warren is a corporate democrat.
I see people eat this up, too. A friend of mine who was a BernieBro in 2016 thinks that Bernie is the wrong person for 2020 but is still absorbing this “All Dems but Bernie are corporate sellouts” messaging and it’s depressing him. In turn, he’s depressing our other friends, talking about (mostly fictional) infractions that show that all the Democrats are compromised, etc.
Bernie’s best shot is to kneecap the party in general, harming everyone but his own campaign and counting on the rest of the party to fall in line. There’s no real backup plan for what happens if he loses – he’ll have made it much harder for the Democrats to do well, but he doesn’t seem to care much.
Waynski
@lamh36:
What country do you live in? Conservatives won’t bring it up? Are you effing kidding me? Every time the reparations people bring it the fore you can envision the Republicans as Montgomery Burns rubbing their sinister collective hands together. The Rs bring it up even when there’s no Democrat even talking about it. They LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this issue.
It’s terrible politics for us. A loser. It will NEVER happen. Logistically, it is impossible that it would even be possible with any level of accuracy. It would be abused giving Rs their latest incarnation of the “Cadillac driving welfare Queen,” making Ds look even worse. Would it be the right thing to do? Certainly, but it’s not possible. It would alienate many center left white people and most decidedly recent Asian immigrants. Drop it already. Ideas like this are like handing the Rs a loaded gun then begging them not to shoot you.
Not to mention IANAL, but would it ever survive a court challenge?
PS – It would never survive a court challenge.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: I”m old enough to remember when some were chastised for whining about Bernie and/or refusing to get over what happened in 2016.
Kathleen
@Kay: Happy Birthday, Kay!
MisterForkbeard
@Waynski: I kind of like Harris’ approach to this. Basically, there are a LOT of people out there that have been historically screwed, and most are on the low-income side of the ladder. Helping low-income and low-wealth people through social programs, tax rebates and other programs will help the people that deserve reparations without singling them out.
Solve the problem and harness the whole class-war against the middle and lower classes to do it.
Brachiator
@MisterForkbeard:
It’s stuff like this that makes me think that Wilmer is another Russian stooge.
I think you are right that Bernie’s antics are an attempt to split the party, but I don’t see this helping him. But it certainly makes Trump happy.
different-church-lady
I said it repeatedly in 2016, and it remains true today: both Trump and Sanders play the politics of resentment. Trump plays it from the dark side, and Sanders plays it from the light side, but it’s still resentment as the primary motivator. Take resentment away and there’s either not a lot (Sanders) or nothing at all (Trump) left.
Waynski
@MisterForkbeard: I didn’t know that about Harris. Sounds reasonable to me too with a firm footing in reality. I didn’t mean by my comment that something shouldn’t be done to help. I only meant to say that it’s like hearing nails on a chalkboard to many people who would otherwise be our natural allies and it is political ammunition for the right to turn us into cannon fodder. We really need to stop stepping on rakes. Too much is at stake.
the Conster
@Ladyraxterinok:
I’m going with this theory until it stops explaining what I’m seeing from him and his campaign.
different-church-lady
@gsp: “Greetings hatching.”
schrodingers_cat
@Kathleen: I remember it as well.
different-church-lady
@SiubhanDuinne:
I should just make that an auto-reply.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
I’m shocked! I’m shocked!
It’s so unlike Wilmer to smear a progressive.
Richard Guhl
@Waynski: Given that the present composition of the Supreme Court is hellbent on returning us to the Lochner era, would any progressive legislation survive its rulings?
It’s worth noting that when the 13th Amendment was being adopted, the stated intent was not just the abolition of slavery, but also the removal of all the ‘badges’ of slavery, the stigma attached to it.
One could argue that many federal, state and local government policies since Reconstruction actually reinforced those badges, particularly in housing, access to jobs, and education, and were therefore unconstitutional and demand recompense.
burnspbesq
@rikyrah:
If Sen. Harris wins the thing, it would be massively cool if she were to show up for her inauguration wearing pink and green—and explained why. The sound of racist heads exploding would be deafening.
Waynski
@Richard Guhl: Richard, I’m well aware of and agree with most of your arguments, none of which we can pursue without power. The point I was trying to make – and apparently failed – is about political timing, political wisdom and the art of the possible. What politically is the upside of bringing this up now? I don’t see it.
We have sent a lot of legislation to the Senate that McConnell is burying because he can. If we are not attacking them/Trump politically on popular issues, on current economic policy, on healthcare, on corruption, corporate welfare, etc. we’re losing. I don’t remember what the Lochner era is, but if I had to guess, it would be the era in the 30s when the court kept knocking down FDR’s progressive legislation, or sometime after reconstruction. Please let me know if I’m right on one of those, or not even close. In any case, thanks for your thoughts. I’m glad we can discuss issues respectfully here… mostly.
laura
@Kay: many happy returns of the day. I’m glad you’re having cake and ice cream even if you’ve got to do the flying and buying.
Dont forget to make a wish ??
Jim
@gsp: Indeed, but the former Wilma supporters are still smarting from her losing to the biggest loser of all times.
Jim
Indeed, he made the wilma-supporting losers and whiners whine again. Well done, and thanks for the laughs.
tam1MI
@Jim: Your guy is losing. We’re laughing last.
Feckless
Who needs Republicans when we have vicious idiots like Betty cracker to attack Democratic candidates.
STFU