We are very fortunate that the US Holocaust Museum has spent the time, money, and effort to compile an Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, 1933–1945.
Auschwitz, Dachau, the Warsaw Ghetto… These are names that resonate with anyone who knows the story of the Holocaust. Most people are shocked, however, to learn just how many camps, ghettos, and other sites of detention, persecution, forced labor, and murder the Nazis and their allies ran: over 42,000. Likewise, few people know much about the conditions in those places, or how broad the range of prisoner experiences was.
In order to fill this vast gap in our knowledge, the Museum and Indiana University Press are compiling and publishing an Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, 1933–1945. Specifically, the work aims to answer basic questions about as many individual sites as possible; to provide scholars with leads for additional research; and to memorialize the places where so many millions of people suffered and died.
Work on this enormous project began in 1999; it involves a small team of editors, writers, and researchers at the Museum, plus hundreds of volunteers and scholars from all over the world. Three volumes have already appeared, and four more are in preparation. When it is complete, the Encyclopedia will be the most comprehensive and up-to-date guide to the Nazi camp system in existence.
Volume one entitled, Early Camps, Youth Camps, and Concentration Camps and Subcamps under the SS-Business Administration Main Office (WVHA), focuses on (emphasis mine):
This volume contains entries on 110 early camps, 23 main SS concentration camps (including Auschwitz, Buchenwald, and Dachau), 898 subcamps, 39 SS construction brigade camps, and three so-called youth protection camps. Introductory essays provide broader context, while citations and source narratives offer the basis for additional research.
From Volume I (pps. 1525-1526 and emphasis mine):
INTRODUCTION TO THE YOUTH CAMPS
The idea of establishing a separate prevention institution (Bewahranstalt) or assembly camp (Sammellager) for the “difficult or impossible to educate” youth, who had become noticed because of their stubborn and deviant behavior, was not new. From the mid-1920s, youth welfare workers, lawyers, medical practitioners, psychiatrists, and adherents of the “racial hy- giene” movement had been demanding such institutions to deal with the high level of care (and thus expense) for such youths. Without any further education, they would be held for an indefinite period of time in such institutions with their labor being exploited. Those advocating such a policy were not successful during the Weimar Republic, but this changed from 1933 with the assumption of power by the National Socialists and the establishment of the concentration camp system.
A series of decrees and orders from 1937 set the legal and institutional basis for the struggle against youth de- generation. A decree dated October 14, 1937, on “preventive criminal measures” established what was regarded as “asocial behavior,” which was “someone who acts against the community, even if such actions were not criminal, but showed that he or she did not want to be part of the community.”1 This decree formed the basis for the persecution of anyone who deviated from National Socialist norms and ideals. In 1938, there followed a further series of decrees and regulations that dealt with the treatment of asocials and called for the “protective custody” of whole families as well as suggesting the registration and police surveillance of asocials.
Following a circular decree by the Reich Ministry of the Interior (RMdI) on May 24, 1939, the Reich Center for Combating Youth Criminality (Reichszentrale zur Bekämpfung der Jugendkriminalität) was established as a department of the Reich Criminal Police Office (Reichskriminalpolizeiamt, RKPA). This authority was tasked with the police surveillance of youths and the power to use force, including sending youths to closed reform institutes. Later, it would be in charge of the “police youth protection camps” (polizeiliche Jugendschutzlager). In actuality, they were concentration camps for youths. On December 22, 1939, at a conference on “degenerate youth,” Reinhard Heydrich demanded the establishment of reform camps for youths (Jugenderziehungslagern). This demand was supported in the following months by Hermann Göring and Heinrich Himmler. On June 26, 1940, the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) issued a circular announcing that the confinement of youths to police youth protective custody camps could begin within a short period of time. In the end, three such camps opened: Morin- gen (for boys) in August 1940, Uckermark (for girls) in June 1942, and Litzmannstadt (for Polish juveniles) in December 1942. All remained in operation almost until the end of the war.
Youths were admitted to the Jugendschutzlager on racial, religious, or political grounds. They included the so called Hamburg Swing Youth (Swing Jugend), who were accused of establishing a dangerous clique even though they only wanted to listen to jazz, then regarded as un-German, and had formed their own subcultures to do so. The authorities also confined homosexuals, Sinti and Roma (Gypsies), Jews, and Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Youths in the camps were subjected to military drill, euphemistically termed “community training” (Gemeinschaftserziehung). The stated aim was character education, focusing on cleanliness, order, punctuality, discipline, and above all, work. The inmates worked on agricultural estates, at armaments firms, and at workshops of various sorts. Living arrangements were primitive, the food and clothing inadequate, and the punishments severe. Death rates were not as high as in some of the adult concentration camps, but prisoners did die in significant numbers.
SOURCES Sources on the youth protection camps can be found in the individual camp entries.
Jürgen Harder
NOTE
1. Quoted in Detlef Peukert, Volksgenossen und Gemein- schaftsfremde. Anpassung, Ausmerze und Aufbegehren unter dem Nationalsozialismus (Cologne, 1982), p. 250.
They’re concentration camps.
Open thread.
zhena gogolia
Thank you, Adam.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Seconded.
TenguPhule
I want the first Republican who uses the term “Freedom Camp” to be run out of DC on a rail.
CarolDuhart2
What I think is happening is that groups like the AJC have started sucking Trump’s dick. How else to explain the whole kerfluffle about whether or not the camps are called “concentration camps?”. Holocausts don’t usually go straight to mass executions. There’s a long process of dehumanization and casual brutality, as they weed out mere bullies from the kind of people who would willingly serve as death camp guards, and they hope that people would forget about the horror.
Betty Cracker
Some folks seem equal to this moment. Some don’t. AOC is among the former.
schrodingers_cat
They have been that for at least a year if not more.
Adam L Silverman
@CarolDuhart2: They don’t want Adelson and the guy who funds JINSA and those in Zuckerman’s funding network to stop making donations.
ccl
Thank you, Adam.
Procopius
Thank you for this. I’ve save to Pocket so I can find it later. The woman pleading before the Ninth Circuit that children in the camps do not need soap, toothbrushes, blankets, beds, or medical care to have a “safe and sanitary environment” is Sarah Fabian.
CarolDuhart2
Its the same “respectability” politics that MLK had to deal with. Not just the often quoted white moderates who objected to the noise, not the cause of the noise. But there were black folks who were willing to trade freedom for the rare status of being the only “acceptable” black people in power or to have anything. That’s the “Clarence Thomas” syndrome: mediocrities only being important because they sucked up to the power brokers and then punched down.
Villago Delenda Est
Likudnik scum once again getting it totally wrong and damaging Israel in the process.
Scotian
Yes, they are indeed. This attempt to merge death camps with concentration camps was transparent from the outset, total BS, and exactly what one has come to expect from not just the Trumpistas but the GOP and its defenders.
I remember growing up hearing Americans saying they could not understand how any society could be so evil to its own, and that of course no such thing could ever happen here/America. Well, we have seen the good Americans rising up just as we saw of the good Germans back in the day, and as sickening as I find the defenders, it is the mealy mouthed tone/word police that has become the US national political media in actually facing this head on that truly infuriates me.
Of course they are concentration camps!
Molloy
Adam,
Speaking of the US Holocaust Museum, I refer you to this statement from Edna Friedberg, Ph.D., a historian in the Museum’s William Levine Family Institute for Holocaust Education.:
h/t https://www.ushmm.org/information/press/press-releases/why-holocaust-analogies-are-dangerous
Kathleen
Reposting from a couple of posts ago:
Thank you so much for this passionate, eloquent post, Adam. I consider warm hearts and compassionate souls some of our most powerful weapons. You come to the fight well armed!
Adam L Silverman
@Scotian: How you doing?
Cacti
I’m sure that no one will be shocked to learn that Tulsi Gabbard was vetted for a position in the Trump Administration.
Did Vlad change his mind and decide she was better off playing at being a Dem Congresswoman?
Adam L Silverman
@Molloy: I’ve seen her statement. She’s entitled to her opinion, she’s also wrong.
Kathleen
@Scotian: I love your eloquence!
Baud
@Cacti:
That’ll hurt her chances.
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: Agreed. It’s a desperate attempt to deny that it’s happening again.
Villago Delenda Est
@Scotian: The NYT and CNN are so busy interviewing “good Germans” in flyover country that they have no time for the KZs.
Ohio Mom
There’s lots I find admirable about my Jewish heritage but on my best days, I am hugely ambivalent about the organized Jewish Community, and today is not one of my better days.
They worry incessantly about the future of American Jewry, all the while making the current-day American Jewish community as repulsive as possible. Their embrace of right-wing values and causes pushes the best, most “Jewish” Jews away.
Clue for the Holocaust Museum, the American Jewish Congress and all rest denying this crisis or sitting it out: They ARE concentration camps.
Sign me,
I grew up surrounded by Survivors, I lost family in the Shoah, I know from concentration camps
zhena gogolia
@Villago Delenda Est:
It’s as if they reason backward from what everyone knew at the end of the war, rather than thinking about the slippery slope that preceded the war.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: When other historians connected to the Holocaust Museum, other historians of the Holocaust, historians and other scholars of genocide and authoritarianism and fascism and state terror, survivors, the descendants of survivors, the last surviving judge from the Nuremberg Trials, and the survivors of other internments in other concentration camps like George Takei, tell you their concentration camps, they’re concentration camps. When they tell you it’s authoritarian and fascistic, it’s authoritarian and fascistic.
SiubhanDuinne
@Scotian:
Have been thinking of you a lot! — much more than I actually say. I hope you were able to give your father a good send-off the other day, and of course I hope that you have your own physical pain under control and your mind at ease.
Thank you, as always, for your posts. The warmest of {{{{{ HUGS }}}}} and white light and good wishes to you.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Hard to drop below statistically insignificant.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
There’s a weird dynamic that happens often where people believe that we need unanimity before we can credibly make an assertion.
TenguPhule
@Villago Delenda Est:
The silver lining is that we’ll have names and photos to know who to round up for the inevitable trials and retribution.
Mary G
@Baud: She’ll go from one in a million to one in two million,
Mnemosyne
@Molloy:
And yet, all of these exact things are happening to refugees in these camps, in this country, right now. Are we supposed to overlook the pain and suffering of those people because they are not our direct relatives?
A Ghost To Most
Thanks, Adam. The camps weren’t just for Jews. They simply ran out of others early.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
Republicans: YES!
schrodingers_cat
RWNJs love to play these rhetorical games
Concentration camps vs internment camps/detention centers
Godse (M K Gandhi’s killer) is a terrorist/Godse is an assassin but a patriot
and so on.
All this does is reveal their lack of morality.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
And their lack of a dictionary.
Mnemosyne
@A Ghost To Most:
It was actually 12 million murdered by the Nazis. Of those 12 million victims, 6 million were Jewish. The others were Roma, LGBT, the disabled, gentile Poles, and more.
Scotian
@Adam L Silverman:
Today not so bad overall pain wise, but in general things have not been going well. Worse, I have reason to fear a family blowup as I have been essentially treated like my opinions let alone last wishes matter not. I hope I am misreading this, but am being forced to have a mediator come in to protect me and my wife. That this is happening is also causing me great internal pain, especially since I was dad’s caregiver and it is likely the strains from that is why my cancer triggered when it did. Hopefully this gets resolved the way it should be, but this was something rather unexpected so just one more example of how if I wasn’t having bad luck I’d be no luck. *SIGH*
Kathleen, thank you, one tries.
Omnes Omnibus
@Molloy: Careless Holocaust analogies are indeed a bad thing. Carefully thought out ones are another matter.
MagdaInBlack
@Adam L Silverman:
“….thoughtful discourse…” She want thoughtful discourse and dialogue?!
With whom?
Lee
I see the Holocaust museum out out a press release that we should not compare what is going on in the US to the concentration camps of NaziGermnay
I wonder whose arm got twisted for that.
chris
@Scotian: I was thinking of you this afternoon while I was out inspecting the lupines. Came home and put away the snow shovel because lupines mean that summer is here. Sort of. I’ll be at loose ends in Hfx early next week if you want or need anything.
TenguPhule
@Lee:
At least not until the American ones get court mandated showers and furnaces. //s
A Ghost To Most
@Mnemosyne:
Yep. Add the disabled, atheists, communists, and socialists. They went first.
Now, to listen to Red Rider’s “Lunatic Fringe” 3 or 4 times. It’s my fighting song.
Ohio Mom
@Molloy: Edna Friedberg’s first error is discounting that there are indeed Nazis everywhere today. Maybe she wasn’t spooked by all those white tiki-torch bearers yelling “Jews will not replace us!” but i sure was.
Her second mistake is leaving out the five million non-Jews who were murdered by the Nazis.
I know I am a broken record on this, but it is a peculiar sort of Holocaust denialism to omit those deaths. Would the Holocaust be less horrendous if no Jews were included?
Omnes Omnibus
This is going out to the entire Wisconsin Congressional delegation. My actual rep and senators have already received it, but I figure I should inflict it on all the fuckers – good and bad. It’s fairly short, but I hope it is to the point:
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
Discourse with self proclaimed nazis?
Excuse me…….
Fucking discourse with self proclaimed nazis?
Yeah, she’s wrong.
Dorothy A. Winsor
OT: I have a guest blogger today, juicer John Manchester, who writes about the idea you start with in composing music or writing fiction sometimes fades away and is unnecessary to the final product. He compares it to the lost wax process.
TenguPhule
Another day, Another Middle Finger from Trump towards law and order.
BigJimSlade
@TenguPhule: run out on a rail? How about on a pike.
Jay
@Scotian:
{{{{{Scotian and SWMBO}}}}}
TenguPhule
The emergency with Trump at the helm already happened. As we have all seen, he fucks everything up.
Puerto Rico’s people will never recover from another hit by a Hurricane this year. Calling it now.
UncleEbeneezer
Action Together Network is asking people to call our Federal Reps. Script:
“I am calling to ask that you push for an immediate investigation into the activities by ICE and CBP at the border, including hearings for the deaths of immigrants that happened under their watch and that if (legislator) has not done so already, that you sign and fight for HB2415 The Dignity For Detained Immigrants Act, to prevent this from continuing to happen in the future. As Americans, we cannot allow human rights abuses to happen in our own country. No matter where someone came from or how they arrived here, the people being detained are human beings and should be treated with dignity and respect. The lack of oversight by an independent agency has fostered an environment of terrible neglect and violence; detainees are becoming ill and traumatized from the terrible conditions, even dying in these detention centers. As a person of conscience, I cannot be silent – I am gravely concerned by this escalating situation and ask that you act now to prevent further abuse.”
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=8A822CF6465CAD5!398&ithint=file%2cdocx&authkey=!ALwMiRcGLQ401qM
A Ghost To Most
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Wood sculpture is often that way. You start with an idea, but the wood has other ideas.
Patricia Kayden
Bill Maher is pissed that AOC called the detention facilities “concentration camps”. Can’t stand him. He stays missing the dang point.
A Ghost To Most
@Patricia Kayden: Chuck Toady as well.
Ohio Mom
@Scotian: Oh Foof on your extended family! I have a story about my sister and BIL trying to pull shenanigans with my mother’s estate. My brother and I were not amused.
Seems like this kind of thing is all too common, and that is a sad thing to note.
Do what you must but also make time to take good care of yourself and enjoy the time you have left with Mrs.Scotian.
dmsilev
Yes.
And, it should also be remembered, this is hardly the first time the US has operated concentration camps like this. Manzanar, to give perhaps the most well-known example. It took something like half a century for us to apologize to the victims of that bit of racial hysteria; will we do better this time?
germy
Barbara
The best way to show commitment to those who died would be to stand up in a way few did but many should have to prevent new outrages. Making a contest of suffering is always obscene.
Ohio Mom
@germy: I saw that. Someone should invite that 93
year old to one of our camps, except of course they don’t allow visitors.
SC54HI
Thank you, Adam.
For a detailed history of the Nazi concentration camps, I recommend reading this work. K.L. stands for Konzentrationslager and the abbreviation was commonly used throughout the records pertaining to the camps. If you read K.L., you will be left with no doubt that the US *is* operating concentration camps.
For those who are unable to find or read the book, this review from The Guardian several years ago will give you an idea.
A Ghost To Most
@Molloy:
I disagree. If people don’t stand now, “Never Again” means nothing.
Godwin’s Law is worthless when you are dealing with actual fascists.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: We’ll have to ask for consensus on your comment before we can proceed.
germy
@A Ghost To Most: I read that Godwin recently suspended his law when it comes to talking about trumpists. I’m not kidding.
Kathleen
@Scotian: {{{{{{Scotian}}}}}
chris
I don’t know where to start with this thread. What comes after *Shit is fucked up and bullshit.* See the numbers, $216,000,000 this year. So far. And so much more.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Yeah, he had the real hot wax process wrong. But as a metaphor it actually wasn’t bad. Creating anything requires a start, a blank sheet if you will. And the concept evolves both in concept and in process. It’s how we create anything, evolution of a concept. Often the concept changes so much that it’s not even the same idea. But it also very often sparks those changes be it art, writing, or production pieces for sale. One of my favorite works my sister did was a line drawing of the statue of liberty that she was using for a basis of a piece. If I recall correctly there are 4 drawings leading to the end result but if you look at #1 then #4 it’s difficult to see the progression. But take them in order and you can see it easily. AB-AB stands out.
Kathleen
@A Ghost To Most: @Kathleen: Chris Hayes also.
Melusine
https://lawworksaction.org/
Live reading of mueller report.
John Lithgow as Trump!
Kathleen
@germy: Yes he did. It was a Twitter thread in which Chris Hayes tweeted his objection to term “concentration camps”. Godwin replied to him on that thread.
ETA: Chris got dragged pretty prettily in that thread.
A Ghost To Most
@germy: The prosecution rests.
Adam L Silverman
@Scotian: We’re keeping good thoughts for you and your wife.
Immanentize
@Molloy: @Adam L Silverman:
Just what the ever loving fuck?
I have never heard this as a rallying cry, but as a statement of History (which she is supposedly protecting) it is QFT.
Isn’t that Friedman statement just some kind of both siderism? With the added sauce of, my clan owns all political victimization forever so butt out (the ultimate act of selfishness and privilege)? It really ignores all sorts of horrible concentration camps of kids over the years — the second Boer War, Cambodia, child soldiers in African conflicts — and now in Yemen at the Saudi’s lead. I am happy to never talk about Nazis again, if only we can be heard to talk about the reprehensible actions that routinely happen after “governments put kids in camps.”
TenguPhule
@chris:
This is like those film companies rank inflating box office bombs.
Only the suffering is worse.
Adam L Silverman
@Lee: That was Yad Vashem. The current director is a Neyanyahu crony.
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman: We cannot start the consensus process until after an appropriate period of consultation with all stake holders. (Yes, I do work at a University, why do you ask?)
Jeffro
No need to argue, defend, or waste time here. Draw a line. Commit to using ‘concentration camps’ and don’t back down, ever. Anything and everything that makes these people realize they are going to pay for their crimes helps.
Btw in terms of actual action: a letter to the editor, op-ed, blog post, FB or Twitter post, are great; a donation to candidates fighting these slime bags is even better. I highly recommend MoveOn’s “50 Ways to Love Your Country” for more direct action options.
Kay
Donald Trump thinks men can rape women they’re attracted to. That’s when he would do it. If she were his “type”. She’s not his type, therefore he must not have raped her. This is how he understands rape, as his decision.
We have a lower standard for the US President than we do for a comedian and a movie producer. They can’t continue their careers after multiple allegations, but the President can.
A Ghost To Most
@Immanentize:
Fuck that. Too much ass kissing.
I wonder about overthinking how we respond to people who find that thinking just slows down the evil. They only understand power.
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: It’s something alright.
Jay
TenguPhule
US moves migrant children after reports of poor conditions at Texas facility
Much like the Catholic Church moved priests around to avoid accountability, so too does CBP move the prisoners around to avoid getting caught.
“Temporary sites”.
GHUA.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ruckus: Yeah, I thought it was an interesting insight into creative work.
germy
@Kay:
Villago Delenda Est
@Lee: The AIPAC people on the museum’s board. They are scum.
germy
@Kay:
“I don’t have to rape anybody! I can pay for it!”
Immanentize
Also, can I please get a list of words or phrases that mean I am anti-Semitic? I now understand that saying “concentration camp” is disrespectful to the Jewish victims of the Nazis. I will never talk about Soviet concentration camps because they have their own word: Gulag. Or any of the other forced separation camps throughout history and the world — especially those for children — that I could even recently call “concentration camps.” I get it. But can I say “Ghetto?” Or is that now a word that can only be associated with the suffering of the Jews in Warsaw? Are pre-WWII Jewish Ghettos not allowed to be called Ghettos anymore? And what about Elvis? And I know that “apartheid” is off the table as to the political, geographic and security laws of Israel. So there are some words I now understand. Please, friends, help me identify other words that may never be used again lest it offend Christians who will tell me I am being ant-Semitic.
Kay
@germy:
Every single one of the women is lying and the compulsive liar president is telling the truth. He never tells the truth, but in this one area he does.
That, or we have a rapist in the White House.
Jay
@Immanentize:
Fuck their feelings.
A Ghost To Most
@germy: His type is alive and captive. I’m not convinced about alive
rikyrah
Thanks for this post, Silverman.
They are killing people, everyday.???
Steeplejack
@Scotian:
Sending healing energy. ?
Jeffro
@Kay: What are the odds, right? When something like 1 out of 3 (ok 1 out of 5?) women report being sexually assaulted…this guy has been falsely accused 22 times???
And really, to be accurate, it’s a SERIAL sexual assaulter /rapist in the White House.
Immanentize
@Jay: I actually considered sending that T shirt to Chuck Todd.
Kay
@germy:
I mean, why hold anyone to the standard? If it doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter and Bill Cosby and Weinstein should be out still working. We have a special lower standard for the President. That’s the situation. Surely it can’t just be applied to entertainers- that’s ludicrous. So, we have no standard.
debbie
@germy:
Those pesky facts again!
Jay
https://itsgoingdown.org/july-8th-12th-week-of-action-shut-down-i-c-e-profiteers/
Jeffro
@Kay: @germy: Normally I argue against the Ill Douche’s framing but let’s go with it and encourage our both-sides media to do the same:
“What exactly IS your type of woman to assault, trumpov?”
“Ivana Trump also…briefly…claimed you raped her, Donnie…she and Ms. Carroll appear to be very similar…so…are you lying or is your first wife not your type?”
“What would you say if someone attacked Ivanka this way and then claimed he OBVIOUSLY didn’t do it, because ‘she isn’t my type’? “
A Ghost To Most
Barr killed 7 Mueller investigations 10 days after report sent to Barr
Kay
@Jeffro:
The NYTimes defense of burying the story is “but we covered me too!”. But me too is a joke if the President of the United States is excepted. It doesn’t mean anything. It means certain (expendable) entertainers may not work and will be held accountable. Truly important and powerful people? Doesn’t apply to them.
BobS
@A Ghost To Most: “Never Again” doesn’t seem to be working- Indonesia, Chile, Argentina, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Central America, East Timor, Rwanda, Darfur, Gaza. I’m sure I missed one or two “Never Again(s)”.
Jeffro
@Kay: That’s an excellent point. Why does trumpov get a pass for rape when we must pause and bash Biden for ‘touching’, get Franken to resign for ‘groping’, send Cosby to jail for drugged rapes? He’s just that special?
One of the Dem candidates will (ok, may) put it more artfully than this, but: don’t even racists deserve a non-rapist president? Aren’t even the neo-Nazis like, “yeah, we’d really rather he not have this decades-long history of sexual assault”? Don’t they have sisters and mothers?
Hit ‘em in the nose with it, Dems
Mr Stagger Lee
The first use of concentration camp was used by the British against Boer Civilians in the Boer War to punish Boer farmers, also the Spanish used similar methods against Cubans.
Kay
Can I just say how disgusting it is that no one in the Trump Administration will take responsibility for this?
They did this. Obviously. I mean, someone did this. The children didn’t put themselves in there. Yet not one of them will accept responsibility for it. They are all lying and dodging and excuse making, and these children are THERE and the Trump people PUT them there.
They can’t even do that much. They can’t even find one adult out of the thousands of low quality hires who will admit “yeah, that’s mine. That’s my job”.
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
This is what had me screaming about their 10 days in a row of front-page Weinstein stories.
Weinstein isn’t the President of the United States! Why does he get full-page front-page stories while you let Trump skate?
BobS
@Mr Stagger Lee: Don’t shortchange the United States- reservations predated the Civil War.
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
According to Pence when questioned by Jake Tapper, it’s all the Democrats’ fault.
plato
@Kay: Of course, the asskisser peter baker will faithfully ‘report’ it without pushing back. They are all horrible thugs.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: It’s not just the Times
plato
@Jeffro: My ‘gotcha question’ would be, ‘so, you do admit that you rape women?’.
Aleta
@Scotian: Please ignore if not useful …. After some versions of the same, I came to believe a mediator is the healthiest way to go. That stuff can be unimaginably destructive, and in some families losing a parent lets loose unexpected and irrational actions. Just out of control, no matter what you do.
IMO Anything that keeps you and your wife away from stress or shields you from pain, is the priority.
JR
@Mnemosyne: 17 million at least in the Holocaust but the Nazis shouldn’t get let off for “regular” wartime deaths either.
Kay
@Jeffro:
Brian Klaas
There you go. Joe Biden touching someone on the shoulder might be “disqualifying”, Donald Trump raping someone isn’t even mentioned.
It’s insane.
Kay
@Jeffro:
They’re saying the Trump allegations won’t “change peoples minds”- therefore, not important.
I don’t remember that being a requirement for any of the other men- that peoples minds be changed.
That must be brand new.
Aleta
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That people in power could be rapists … could destroy their world.
John Revolta
@zhena gogolia: Don’t forget…………Weinstein assaulted movie stars.
Movie. Stars.
Who did Trump go after? Buncha nobodies. Get back to us when some A-Listers turn up.
Aleta
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: And perhaps attorneys have already responded to requests for comment on the story by threatening them.
JR
As for our present day concentration camps, I think Nauru is a pertinent example. We haven’t heard the worst yet.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and the mother of his largest, and probably most damaged, children.
Mnemosyne
@JR:
I do think that there is a moral difference between bombing cities and murdering people one-by-one in assembly-line fashion. YMMV.
Ruckus
@Aleta:
That’s the understatement of at least the week, losing a parent lets loose irrational actions/words. At least in my case it wasn’t unexpected from one party. And yes it can get rather difficult to just handle the things that have to be done. In my case we had clearcut directions from the parents. Cut back on the irrationality maybe 15%.
Gin & Tonic
Adam up top: “Living arrangements were primitive, the food and clothing inadequate”
I have a copy of one of the last letters my grandfather sent from the Gulag. Among the things he asked his wife to send him was a new belt.
Why do you think that might be?
She never saw him again.
They were not death camps.
John Revolta
You can’t rape your own wife, silly- Trump’s own lawyer said so!
PaulWartenberg
@John Revolta:
It should not be a question of who trump assaulted. it’s the fact that he assaulted women constantly over what is clearly DECADES of assault after assault.
The horrifying thing about rape and sexual assault is that the rapist never stops at one. He (almost always a male) will keep assaulting victims until stopped. And he doesn’t stop because the victims are terrified of the public scrutiny and humiliation. It’s why it takes years for victims to step forward, and by then there’s dozens.
Considering trump’s bullying and angry behavior towards everyone he views as a lesser (which includes every woman he finds attractive), the current number of 20 credible victims is too low. the sonofabitch is bound to be in triple digits after 40 years of being a sexist pussygrabbing monster.
plato
@John Revolta: @John Revolta:
Your attempted snark here is trivializing what this horrible rapist thug did to women.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Aleta
It took years before most of the media would print accusations against Cosby. Until then the stories were ignored. Like Trump, Cosby and Weinstein had friends in the media and ones with political influence.
It’s very important that they apply as much pressure as they can early on, to raise doubt and use connections so the first stories will be ignored and buried. Because then the perception that it went nowhere, and that someone who talks may be harmed, convinces other women to stay quiet. Also see how they handled Anita Hill. (There were other women in addition to her.)
It seems to take a lot more than three years if they have political influence and friends in the media.
JR
@Mnemosyne: There are differences but where do you draw the line? The Einsatzgruppen? And plenty of “battle” atrocities occur long after the hostilities end.
Aleta
@Ruckus: I expected and prepared for trouble, but the worst things came out of left field.
Aleta
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s a familiar defense though. And I believe he’s used it before, in a slightly different way.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Aleta: Yeah, I’m pretty sure he said that about at least one of the women accusing him of assault, he doesn’t find her attractive
Summer Zervos, maybe?
Mnemosyne
@JR:
I draw the line at deliberately killing civilians by design. The Einsatzgruppen are absolutely considered the first wave of the Holocaust — the only reason the Nazis stopped using them was that roving death squads were more expensive than camps and gas chambers.
Ahasuerus
@Lee: Here is the key to that particular missing link
plato
wtf is american jewish congress?
plato
moderation please?
rikyrah
@Scotian:
Sending you positive thoughts?
Ohio Mom
@JR: There is a difference between war and genocide. Not that war isn’t without its own atrocities, and not that too many wars rate the title but there can be just and necessary wars. There are no just or necessary genocides.
On another note (not in response to your comment), just because some people mischaracterize things that aren’t antisemitic as antisemitic to score political points or defend the indefensible doesn’t mean that there isn’t real antisemitism in our country, even if most American Jews enjoy relatively comfortable lives. Most of it is just stupid verbiage but not all of it.
John Revolta
@PaulWartenberg: I agree, it shouldn’t be about who. But I do believe that the only reason Weinstein got all the attention he got was because the fucking media decided that the story would grab eyeballs on account of who.
@plato: Attempted snark, now what is that? I mean, do they give a Nobel prize for attempted chemistry?
Seriously, I’m even starting to get too angry for my own self. I’m gonna go play with the dog for awhile.
Adam L Silverman
@Mr Stagger Lee: The Bosque Redondo also fits the definition.
Molloy
@Adam L Silverman: @Immanentize: @A Ghost To Most: @Mnemosyne:
I take a backseat to no one in terms of my outrage over Trump being President. Because we already have the moral high ground concerning this issue, I don’t think it’s necessary to invoke the phrase concentration camp. By doing so, we simply get bogged down in unproductive arguments.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: Tracking.
Jackie
@Molloy: What is your acceptable/PC terminology?
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht
Adam L Silverman
@plato: It was a leftist Jewish advocacy organization founded to balance out an organized communal voice for American Jews in the early 20th century. At the time, the American Jewish Committee, which was run and controlled by a small amount of elite, wealthy and politically conservative Jewish Americans. Brandies was among its founders.
Adam L Silverman
@plato: You’re free. Sorry for the delay. I was watching a cartoon.
Adam L Silverman
@Molloy: I’m happy for you.
plato
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks Adam. I thought two links are allowed. I will be more careful.
plato
@Adam L Silverman: Politically conservative Jewish Americans posing as leftist Jewish advocacy organization? Aka astroturfing?
Adam L Silverman
@plato: There’s no rhyme or reason to what is or isn’t allowed.
Adam L Silverman
@plato: No, I think what’s happened is the donor base has changed. My guess is they’re reliant on some of the better known Jewish elites and notables like Adelson for funding. And I’m sure someone got a call about donations.
Adam L Silverman
@A Ghost To Most: Not quite. Raw Story’s headline is bad and their summary of the CNN article is as well.
Here’s the link to the actual CNN reporting, which Raw Story couldn’t be bothered to actually link to.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/24/politics/cnn-mueller-court-documents-unsealed/index.html
dimmsdale
@Kay: Yeah, this goes right to the issue of the most under-covered, relatively unknown bunch of people currently polluting our national discourse: news producers and show bookers. Who the hell do they answer to? Who sets their agendas and determines the slants they use to tell us what’s “news”?
I would love to see some enterprising journalist do a deep-dive look at these people, with interviews. What on earth kind of country do they think they’re living in, anyway? And what kind of “contribution” to the public good do they think they’re making? (Note to those who do not date from the Punic Wars, as I do: once upon a time, news was considered a public service, not a profit-making bamboozle-the-rubes-for-a-buck “infotainment” operation. I truly miss those days.)
Villago Delenda Est
@dimmsdale: It’s fully a profit making operation now. You’ll never see another NBC White Paper again.
Which is why it should be destroyed.
Adam L Silverman
@dimmsdale: @Villago Delenda Est:
The same country that the Democrats think they’re contesting the 2020 elections in. An American that doesn’t exist.
Mnemosyne
@Molloy:
The camps where Japanese Americans were sent were called “concentration camps.” The name was only changed after the war and the news about the Holocaust became widespread.
But Japanese Americans were kept in halfway reasonable conditions. Families were kept together. They were given adequate food, shelter, and clothing. They were allowed to have schools for their children.
That’s not what’s going on at the border right now. Children are being starved, made to sleep on the floor, and have been forced to try to care for one another because they have been torn from their parents. Disease is running rampant. Only a handful of deaths have been reported though more seem to have occurred, and the entire situation is so secret that we don’t even know how many children are being held like this or for how long.
That sounds a whole lot like a concentration camp to me.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
Ever been to Manzanar?
Waynski
@BobS: The Balkans and Kurdistan come to mind.