Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

The current Supreme Court is a rogue court. Very dangerous.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

I am pretty sure Katy Tur wasn’t always such a bootlicking sycophant.

It’s a doggy dog world.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

Republicans would impeach Biden if he bit into a whole Kit Kat rather than breaking the sections apart.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

“Loving your country does not mean lying about it’s history.”

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

‘Museums aren’t America’s attic for its racist shit.’

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Another missed opportunity for Jamie Dimon to just shut the fuck up.

Let there be snark.

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself. We’re allowed to grow past that.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Monday Morning Open Thread: Kamala Harris Had A Great Weekend

Monday Morning Open Thread: Kamala Harris Had A Great Weekend

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Chelsea Janes, in the Washington Post:

… Throughout the weekend, she cast herself as a candidate of action, seeming to embrace the notion that the Harris brand is one built on practicality as much as any sort of sweeping vision.

“I think it’s important to have grand and broad ideas for how to fix this world,” Harris told voters at a Friday night meet-and-greet. “But it’s also important, and I believe for me it’s a priority, how can I address the things that wake people up in the middle of the night?”…

In a crowded field in which Sanders’s Democratic socialism and Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s heavily regulated capitalism are elbowing for supremacy on the far left and Biden is positioning himself as a centrist best positioned to beat President Trump, Harris is known more for her prosecutorial performance in Senate hearings than she is for advocating any particular approach to policy…

The thread that has connected her proposals is an emphasis on what she has presented as practical actions that can be put in place while long-term solutions are hammered out. Harris’s proposals for tightened controls on guns and a path to citizenship for young undocumented immigrants and their parents rely on executive action, an approach used by Trump and President Barack Obama in the face of opposition from Capitol Hill. Her proposals for rent assistance and a middle-class tax credit of up to $6,000 per year, her campaign staff argues, provide more short-term tangible benefits than, say, more dramatic moves like Warren’s pledge to break up big tech companies…

In South Carolina over the weekend, a must-win state for Harris, she maintained one of the largest and most vocal groups of supporters that was as big as Biden’s, Sanders’s and Warren’s, and thanks in part to that drum line, just as loud. The Rev. Jesse Jackson sneaked into her pre-convention rally. She sparked visible interest…

Reader Interactions

233Comments

  1. 1.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    I haven’t yet decided whether I’m voting for Harris or Warren, but it’s one or the other. No one else in the current field of candidates has impressed me even a tenth as much as those two have. Ideally we could combine them into a sort of Voltron with Warren’s policy chops and Harris’ political instincts, but unfortunately there isn’t yet a way to grow Democratic candidates in a lab.

  3. 3.

    JPL

    Georgians were scheduled to vote on super Tuesday but the secretary of state just moved the date to later in the month.

  5. 5.

    plato

    Turks: Yes, We Can. Yes, We Did.

    Turkey’s ruling AK Party has lost control of Istanbul after a re-run of the city’s mayoral election, delivering a stinging blow to President Erdogan.

    With nearly all ballots counted, main opposition party candidate Ekrem Imamoglu had a lead of 775,000 votes, a huge increase on the margin of 13,000 he achieved in the earlier election.

    That victory in March was annulled after the AKP alleged irregularities.

    The result ends 25 years of AKP rule in Istanbul.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    You need someone who knows how to read a rap sheet and prosecute the case.”

    This will make Kay happy.

  9. 9.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @(((CassandraLeo))): I’m pretty much in the same boat as you. Both of them are smart, organized, and can deliver words that mean something.

    And they’re both going to piss off Wilmer and his cult.

  13. 13.

    eclare

    Glad she had a good weekend. Obviously Super Tuesday is a long way away, but if voting were today, Harris would have my vote.

  14. 14.

    OzarkHillbilly

    The thread that has connected her proposals is an emphasis on what she has presented as practical actions that can be put in place while long-term solutions are hammered out. Harris’s proposals for tightened controls on guns and a path to citizenship for young undocumented immigrants and their parents rely on executive action, an approach used by Trump and President Barack Obama in the face of opposition from Capitol Hill.

    I have a problem with this approach. We have seen the shortcomings of “executive actions” in that both Obama’s and trump’s have been under sustained attack since their implementations. Obama’s have fared better because they were well thought out and they followed the rules for implementation. Even still some have since been overturned by a reactionary opposition desperate to undo everything he did no matter the consequences (JCPOA, DACA). trump’s executive actions have largely been stumped because they are idiots who have absolutely no idea wtf they are doing, even then some have, for the moment survived (Muslim travel ban, immigration and de facto denial of asylum) but as soon as trump is gone so will they be (god willing and the creek don’t rise a DEM takes his place).

    “Hammering out long term solutions” sounds good but it basically means “working with our opponents”. As of right now our opponents have no desire to work with us on anything Global warming? They deny it’s existence. Gun violence? Thawts and prayers. Economic inequality? Tax cuts for the rich and corporations. Immigration reform that works? Concentration camps and the kidnapping of children, Health care? Health care? ……………. Maybe if they do nothing it will go away.

    Social Security used to be the 3rd rail of politics, now healthcare is too. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid changed the politics of heathcare with the ACA. They rammed it thru and the benefits of it became so obvious to voters on both sides that whatever the shortcomings of the ACA, repeal is not the answer. If the GOP takes it away, they will pay a heavy electoral price. Just ask any Republican who has a child with leukemia.

    We have to change the politics around Global warming. And gun violence. And economic inequality. And immigration. I don’t think we can do that nibbling around the edges with executive actions in the hopes of “hammering something out later.”

    I love Kamala but right now I am leaning towards Warren because she is proposing big changes on these things and more. No, she can’t do it all. If elected she might succeed at one or two (given a DEM Congress), but what I see is her trying to change the politics surrounding these issues and that is what is really needed.

    I have no idea if her way is the right way to go about it, I’m not a politician. I do know that if I look at the Obama years and compare the first 2 to the final 6, there is a stark difference.

  15. 15.

    BlueDWarrior

    @OzarkHillbilly: The problem is that permanent change has to be written into legislation, but that might be a 10+ year process. And a lot of these problems have to be worked on now. You have to claw out as much as you can from executive action until you can line up the legislative action to make it more or less permanent.

  17. 17.

    JPL

    @satby: Georgia is acquiring new voting machines and they feel they need the extra time . Unfortunately, the delay could mean that the candidate already has the necessary votes to secure the nomination.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    The NYT on my feed.

    Here We Go Again
    28NYT > Top Storiesby Michael Barbaro / 13h

    We face the truth: Our 2020 election coverage is officially underway.

    Given how the NYT handled 2016, I hope they are lying. But they’re not.

  19. 19.

    eclare

    @OzarkHillbilly: I didn’t take “hammering out long term solutions” to mean working with Republicans. Has she said anything along those lines, like Klobuchar or Biden with their magical thinking?

  21. 21.

    Baud

    ‘Barack picked him for a reason’: South Carolina voters stand by Joe Biden after comments about segregationist senators.

    Many voters told CNN they had not followed the debate over Biden’s comments or even heard about it at all. When briefed on the details, most shrugged off that Biden said he had worked with segregationists — even though his views were diametrically opposed to theirs — noting that the ability to work with politicians who have opposite views is part of the skill of legislating.

    “They need to leave it be,” said Cheri Reed, a 66-year-old Democrat from Columbia as she waited in line with friends for fish at Clyburn’s event on Friday night. She chided Democrats like New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker, who criticized Biden for his remarks and called on him to apologize.

    “We don’t need a rookie in the game right now. Because it’s the anti-Christ that we’re up against,” Reed said, referring to President Donald Trump. “He’s despicable. He’s destructive. He’s a liar. He’s trigger-happy. He’s everything that you don’t want in a President.”

  26. 26.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @BlueDWarrior:

    The problem is that permanent change has to be written into legislation, but that might be a 10+ year process.

    That IS my point. The politics have to change.

    EA’s don’t change the politics. If you had told me a nation in which the majority supported DACA would overnight turn into a nation that separated families at the border for the sin of seeking asylum (it is NOT a crime, it is a right under treaties the US is a signatory to), put children into cages and parents into concentration camps denying them soap and toothpaste…. I’d have said you need help, they need to get you on some good drugs. And yet, here we are.

    I am not arguing against the use of executive actions, that would be stupid as the President is the executive and s/he takes actions. I’m saying they are insufficient to the problems at hand, you can’t put a band aid on a severed artery and right now our planet is hemorrhaging.

    And for the record, I don’t see a President Elizabeth Warren in my future, I can see a President Kamala Harris in my future. That would make me happy but I don’t think she would be a game changer.

  27. 27.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: What are they talking about? They still haven’t faced the truth that they blew it in 2016.

  28. 28.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @JPL: Warren and Harris would both be wasted as Vice Presidents. If not President, they should stay in the Senate, where we need all the talented legislators we can get.

    Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

  31. 31.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @eclare: I was reading between the lines when I said that. It may or may not be exactly what she means, but it’s a fair assumption that she will want to try for “bipartisan solutions” because those have a legitimacy with the pundits and talking heads that pure party line votes don’t have. We all know how that worked out for Obama.

    Again, I’m talking about changing the politics around the issues. I just don’t see her approach doing it.

  32. 32.

    glory b

    @eclare: I figured that this is the response she has for the inevitable question that many candidates have gotten, “With Mitch McConnell in office, how will you actually accomplish any of thise big ideas?”
    She’s got to appeal strongly to AA voters, and we are a practical, pragmatic bunch. Not impressed with game changing ideas that can’t be implemented.

  33. 33.

    A Ghost To Most

    I’ve been backing Harris, but my wife is working on me for Warren.

    Win-win.

  34. 34.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @JPL: Harris/Warren would make me happy too.

    @eclare: Sorry, my mornings get interrupted by duties that must be attended to at the proper time. Another stint away coming up at 6 am.

  36. 36.

    eclare

    @OzarkHillbilly: I don’t think she means bipartisan solutions, that is not how I took it, and I don’t think she’s that naive . It sometimes takes a lot of work just to get Democrats to agree on a long term solution. I guess we’ll see, lot of time between now and the primaries.

  39. 39.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    We have seen the shortcomings of “executive actions” in that both Obama’s and trump’s have been under sustained attack since their implementations.

    I agree with you. Relying on executive actions has meant instability for our own citizens and the world as much of what’s accomplished by them is reversed as soon as there’s a change in executive. I understand a stymied President Obama had to resort to them to accomplish anything his last few years, but we need laws and parties who will uphold those laws. The politics has to change so that the majority of citizens are represented again and a party that has refused to represent the majority of citizens’ is punished.

  40. 40.

    tobie

    Okay…I’ll do a shameless plug for my first pick. I gather Beto was on fire at the SCDP Convention this weekend:

    @ThomasMcElveen
    Jun 22
    At a much-watched @scdp Convention weekend, @BetoORourke finished strong & set himself apart. It was an honor to spend more time this weekend with this hard-working team that clearly embraces the value of retail politics, pressing flesh, and connecting with PEOPLE.

    Kamala evidently stole the show at the Clyburn Fish Fry. Kamala and Beto would make an amazing team IMO.

    Immigration is a big issue for me, and Beto’s been pushing for a more humane policy since 2014. I haven’t read his Veterans Affair proposal yet, but if it’s anything like his immigration, climate change, electoral reform or LGBTQ rights proposal, it will be both specific and comprehensive. I’m glad he’s going to Homestead after the first debate. I would join if I lived anywhere in the vicinity.

  41. 41.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    I can’t find the tweet now, but Malcom Nance thinks Booker is finished because of his response to Biden’s brag about working with a segregationist.

  42. 42.

    debbie

    @tobie:

    A war tax is not the answer. Divert funds from weapons systems to veterans’ healthcare makes tons more sense.

  44. 44.

    Baud

    @plato:

    Not BJ. Internet liberals generally. 2016 self righteousness cost us dearly. Juicers were on the right side, but we’re only a top 10000 blog.

  45. 45.

    satby

    @debbie: it’s a clever way to put more skin in the game for the people who treat the volunteer military as if they were soldiers in a game of Risk though. There’d be more pressure on legislators to not go along with a trigger happy President because everyone would feel the effects of a war, not just military families.

  46. 46.

    Kay

    WASHINGTON BOTTOM, W.V. – Beijing billed President Donald Trump’s 2017 trip as a “state visit-plus” — rolling out the red carpet for an unprecedented private dinner in the Forbidden City, marching a military parade through Tiananmen Square, and hosting a signing ceremony in the colossal Great Hall of the People to unveil business deals totaling more than $250 billion.
    One-third of that value was supposed to flow to West Virginia, an energy-rich but high-poverty state whose manufacturing and energy workers handed Trump his widest margin of victory in 2016. He captured more than more than 67% of the vote.
    Under the deal, China’s largest state-owned energy giant would spend nearly $84 billion over 20 years to build facilities that extract natural gas and turn it into byproducts that generate power and make consumer goods.

    In celebrating the announcement, West Virginia officials said projects would be underway within a year.
    “This time next year, you will see construction activity taking place,” the state’s former Commerce secretary, Woody Thrasher, told reporters on Nov. 13, 2017.
    A month later, Gov. Jim Justice confirmed that timeline. “It would not surprise me, within my 10-month window of today, to see shovels in the ground,” Justice told a town hall on WSAZ television.
    But skepticism about the deal surfaced almost immediately. Officials referenced the general areas where China Energy would invest, but didn’t provide a detailed list of projects or an accompanying timeline. The memorandum of understanding outlining the deal was never made public and remains sealed by judicial order.
    CNBC interviewed dozens of local executives, state officials and federal lawmakers about where the deal stands. What emerges is a picture of a proposal hastily assembled for the deadline of Trump’s trip to China without assessments of national security or geopolitical risks – and a cautionary tale as the U.S. tries to hold China to its promises at the federal level.
    Eighteen months after the deal was announced with much fanfare, China Energy Investment Corp. has spent no money in West Virginia’s energy projects, Justice tells CNBC. Thrasher – one of three signatories to the deal – points to one reason: “It’s not an enforceable document where we can make them spend their money.”

    Oh. So that’s the problem.

    Much like the “deal” that was announced where Mexico was to buy the products of the our great patriot farmers.

  48. 48.

    tobie

    @debbie: why not both? Shared sacrifice for war strikes me as a good thing. If you don’t want to pay, then don’t go to war.

  49. 49.

    Baud

    Wilmer has announced that he’s going to cancel student debt. I’m not opposed to it, but people will be looking for Warren’s response.

  51. 51.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Just to clarify, it is not that I see Warren as the answer, it is that I see her approach as possibly changing the politics. It is her approach I would like to see the broader Democratic party adopt. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe there is a better, different way. I know that what DEMs have been doing, the way they talk about the issues in insufficient to counter the AM radio/FOX news/GOP Axis of Evil.

  52. 52.

    MomSense

    This is a good article about the new policy the ravelry site announced banning all things trump from their website. This is a BFD. Ravelry is a major social media and commerce site with 8 million registered users.

    the power of ravelry’s stance

  54. 54.

    Kay

    I mean, why keep calling it a “deal”? What does “deal” mean? Not that!

    This is what it is:

    In celebrating the announcement

    Ann-ounce-ment.

  56. 56.

    debbie

    @MomSense:

    Jesus, but Trump pollutes all sites! Most of the FB groups I belong to are always trying to get the politics out of their posts — with not too much success.

  61. 61.

    Lapassionara

    OT, but we have a time and place for our St Louis area meetup. McGurks In Soulard, 5 pm, Thursday, June 27. I’ll try to get the word to a front-pager.

  63. 63.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Interesting: Arab world turns its back on religion – and its ire on the US

    The Arab world is turning its back on religion and on US relations, according to the largest public opinion survey ever carried out in the region.

    A survey of more than 25,000 people across 10 countries and the Palestinian territories found that trust in religious leaders has plummeted in recent years.

    The study, compiled by BBC News Arabic and Arab Barometer, a Princeton University-based research network, also identified a marked rise in the proportion of people describing themselves as “not religious” – from 11% in 2012-2014 to 18% this year.

    Just 12% of the countries surveyed – which included Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Palestine, Sudan, Tunisia and Yemen – had a positive view of Donald Trump. More than twice as many (28%) felt positively towards Russia’s Vladimir Putin, while Turkey’s Recep Erdogan fared the best (51%).

    At least 60% of respondents in eight of the 11 places surveyed said violence against the US was a logical consequence of interference in the region. The sentiment was most pronounced in Lebanon, Palestine and Yemen, where 75% or more of those surveyed were of this view.

    More at the link.

  64. 64.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @MomSense: That’s a great article. This passage struck me in particular:

    Ravelry credits rules enacted last year on roleplaying game site RPG.net for much of the writing in its new policy. At a time when all the biggest social media platforms, including Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, are constantly prevaricating about their role in enabling the spread of racism, hate speech and harassment, it is extraordinarily brave and meaningful for these much smaller—but still influential—sites to take a stance that unequivocally calls out the link between the Trump administration and white supremacy.

    WisCon, the feminist SFF con I often go to, often has a “fiber circle” going for knitters, etc. They think of knitting, crocheting, embroidery, weaving, spinning, etc as socially marked feminine art/craft. That Ravelry drew from an RPG site seems related since gamers get little mainstream respect, the way women’s crafts get little respect

  65. 65.

    plato

    @Kay: Typical trumpian ‘deal’. Wonder how much grease money he and his klan got for ‘signing’ that mockery of agreement.

  67. 67.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    It’s a great lesson for the next president- announce “the deal”, 10 months later all the parties admit it doesn’t exist. I think there have been two deals since that China deal, except none of them are enforceable. My question is always how people maintain the will to pretend any of it is real for long enough to make the announcement. It’s all just complete bullshit. What Trump found out with the Mexico “deal” is he doesn’t even have to go there, which will certainly save time. More time to announce deals, with less time spent “dealmaking”. Genius.

    The Chuck Todd interview is terrible, but realize that Todd had to sit thru that whole thing knowing that NONE of it is real. It’s a pack of lies. Why bother?

  68. 68.

    MomSense

    @debbie:

    One of the interesting things is all the trump supporters outing themselves in the various discussions of this on instagram. Ravelry was careful to say they aren’t banning republican or conservative participation but that trump support is different because it is indistinguishable from white supremacy.

  69. 69.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @debbie: What’s interesting about Ravelry is that they’re not trying to get politics off their site. Instead they specifically defined support for Trump as support for white supremacy and that’s what they’re banning. If someone wants to argue against gun control, that’s ok. They’re putting support for Trump in the same category as patterns that include a Confederate flag, which they also ban.

  70. 70.

    burnspbesq

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I have a problem with this approach. We have seen the shortcomings of “executive actions

    Thank you for your inspiring remarks, Justice Gorsuch.

  71. 71.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    It works for them because they’re supporters want it to be true, which is always more important to them than it being true.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    @Kay: @Baud:

    When Obama raised taxes on wealthy people, Republican supporters believed that he had raised taxes on non-wealthy people. Same fabrication, except in reverse.

  75. 75.

    Betty Cracker

    @tobie: I like Beto’s immigration reform plan, and the idea behind the “war tax” — that military action should involve shared sacrifice — is sound. But targeting “households without service members or veterans” [Texas Trib] to collect funds reinforces a dangerous idea that has infected our politics, particularly on the wingnut side: that there’s a special warrior class that is due civilian deference.

    The US has poured north of a trillion dollars down the Iraq/Afghanistan War rat holes since 9/11. That’s tax money we all paid in. If there’s a broad shortfall in veterans healthcare (is there? or is alleging that there is just a great applause line because teh troops!), better to claw some of that money back from the corporations that have raked in gigantic profits from the endless wars. The rest of us have paid and paid already, including tens of millions of us who would dearly love to have access to VA-style socialized medicine, however imperfectly administered.

  80. 80.

    Chris Johnson

    @NotMax: Not surprised. Rich people rule and own everything and the more monstrous they are the more impact they have. We’re lucky Monterey Jack didn’t become President. Maybe his estate is getting stiffed on royalties, in which case: GOOD. Screw ’em.

  83. 83.

    Another Scott

    @OzarkHillbilly: Everything is possible, of course, with enough votes. How we get enough votes is the eternal question.

    (When did Executive Orders morph into Executive Actions??)

    IIRC, Truman desegregated the military via an EA/EO. They have their place. And any law can be reversed if the monsters on the other side have enough votes (or allies on the courts). They’re part of the same coin.

    Porque no los dos?

    And tailor our message to each election contest. Firebreathing liberalism in AOCs district in NYC; compromise, patriotism, help the farmers, bootstraps, etc., in rural Iowa. As Nancy says, “Just win.”

    I’m still waiting for the debates, and keeping my powder dry until after the Virginia elections this fall. There’s lots of time…

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  84. 84.

    Ken

    @Kay: This is all down to Cole refusing permission for the mining companies to operate on his property.

  88. 88.

    eclare

    @satby: One of the comments said that Gregory Hines said if they did that number today, they’d have to use CGI. No one could do what the Nicholas Brothers did.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    @Another Scott:

    I’m looking forward to the debates and if any of the moderators allow Trump INTO the D debates (with his real-time tweets) I will be furious. I’m sick of what is a mutually beneficial business relationship between political media and Donald Trump getting in the way of everything. The public is NOT part of this deal they made. The debates are FOR US, not Donald Trump and his bevy of social media followers.

    We should raise hell if they do it. If Donald Trump manages to get a question at the D debate I will be really mad. Tell him “no”. Check him.

  91. 91.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Can weed users be trusted with guns? A battle in America’s heartland

    Meanwhile, strong support for medical marijuana research among veterans has accelerated legalization faster than anyone might have reasonably expected. Many veterans claim cannabis has helped them cope with PTSD, opioid addiction and related symptoms. Thus far the evidence of medical marijuana’s benefits in this area are largely anecdotal.

    But veterans groups say 20 veterans commit suicide daily – and research suggests access to guns increases the risk of suicide. Many within the marijuana industry suggest access to medical marijuana can help reduce veteran suicides, although much more research is necessary. Either way, marijuana adds another volatile element to this already combustible mix.

    ………………………..

    Americans have also adjusted to a world where random mass shootings have become commonplace. Some of these shooters have been users of cannabis and other drugs. In the politics of the moment, cannabis has not received much of the blame as it relates to these massacres. Berenson’s book is not notable for its restraint, but even he gives this question a wide berth.

    Of course, a great many cannabis users almost certainly are capable of responsible gun ownership. But the weapons currently available in much of the US foster the possibility that any slight misunderstanding or grudge can escalate instantly into horrific carnage. Adding marijuana into the mix doesn’t change, and perhaps exacerbates, that basic equation.

    How does one write this myopic drivel without ever once referring to alcohol? I’ve known a lot of dope heads in my life, and more than a few who imbibe a little too frequently in their alcohol of choice. The first group contains so few of those for whom violence is a problem when smoking that the closest I can get to is one guy who suffered severe paranoia and his reaction was to not smoke it. The # of violent drunks I have had the displeasure of knowing however are innumerable.

  93. 93.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker:
    Exempting families (parents?) of those who serve is of a piece with exempting police and fire unions from draconian new union restrictions. It is vote buying — separating natural allies — and sets neighbor against neighbor. Win win for Republicans.

    I don’t think those actually serving should pay — we barely pay them enough to get by if they have a family. But extending it beyond actual service members is not a great plan.

  97. 97.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    marijuana adds another volatile element to this already combustible mix.

    There is a lot of “Ass U Me” in these statements.

    Some of these shooters have been users of cannabis and other drugs.

    Adding marijuana into the mix doesn’t change, and perhaps exacerbates, that basic equation.

  99. 99.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Another Scott:

    How we get enough votes is the eternal question.

    And that is what I am speaking of. What I see DEMs doing is winning an election or 2 and losing the next 3. Maybe it’s the other way around. I want to see the blame for what is happening now placed squarely where it belongs: On the GOP. I feel like right now it’s all trump this, and trump that but he is symptom of a larger disease infecting our body politic.

    To pick an issue, income inequality is undeniable and yet time and again 47% vote to have their pockets picked clean. Why? How do the Repubs get them to vote against their own self interest? Warren is talking about it in a different way. It might not be the right way, but our current way sure isn’t working.

    eta removed a redundancy.

  103. 103.

    eclare

    @Immanentize: Our governor (I live in Memphis) wants to try some new plan to block grant Medicaid, so we’re trying our best to win the Shithole State Race. Fingers crossed!

  104. 104.

    Betty Cracker

    @Immanentize: I think everyone should pay in since we’re all citizens of this country. IMO, a better approach would be to create estimates from the GAO of what a proposed military action would cost, broken down by how much will be required from the average taxpayer. The problem isn’t that non-military families aren’t paying — we are. It’s that the folks who start the wars hide the costs, like GWB signing giant tax cuts while starting a hugely expensive, deadly and wasteful war. Maybe estimates should be applied to all US military activities worldwide, even routine stuff like maintaining bases everywhere. Tell us how much it costs, and if it’s important, make the argument on why we should want to bear that expense going forward.

  105. 105.

    Immanentize

    @satby: How much did those young men have to go through to become that type of athlete dancer? The splits on the super stairs made we wince!

  107. 107.

    satby

    @Immanentize: yeah, if they went with something like a war tax only active duty members of the military should be exempted. Some of the most gung ho for war veterans I know never served in a war or war zone, while the ones who served in wars are more skeptical of the need for military intervention. Anecdotal only, YMMV.
    But it’s not a proposal that will go anywhere.

  108. 108.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Excellent point, and it might be worthwhile to contact the networks in advance about it. There’s going to be a huge temptation to let that cash cow crash the debates — probably the only thing that will save us from that absurdity is if he’s in a KFC food coma by the time the debates get underway.

  110. 110.

    Immanentize

    @eclare:
    Why? Just, why? Does Tenn. allow ballot initiatives?

    It’s getting so bad that I hear they don’t even make tents in the State anymore….

  111. 111.

    eclare

    @Immanentize: I just googled them, there is a documentary We Sing & We Dance about them. I’m going to see if I can find that, but yeah, wow.

  113. 113.

    Immanentize

    @Betty Cracker:
    Ok, you convinced me because many military service families make so little they qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit.

    We know the cost of the military. But it’s the “actions” that go unpaid for in a open way. Fire 40 cruise missiles? How much tax money just got diverted from health care?

  114. 114.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    MSNBC already addressed it, which is why I thought about it. It was this boilerplate bland “hoping we have a debate of ideas” thing, but if douchebag crashes it their instinct will be to let him “make news” for their own reasons. You know it will.

    He doesn’t get a question at our debates. If they allow him to manipulate this like they let him run their world I will be furious.

  117. 117.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Betty Cracker:

    Tell us how much it costs, and if it’s important, make the argument on why we should want our children to bear that expense going forward.

    Because we sure as hell aren’t going to.

  118. 118.

    tobie

    @(((CassandraLeo))): @Betty Cracker: I haven’t read the policy yet and I’m in a train station right now so I won’t be able to look into the details until later. What I would say, though, is that I don’t feel like I’ve paid and paid for our endless wars. My federal taxes have not risen appreciably since we went to Iraq and Afghanistan, and the fact that these wars haven’t had much of a price tag attached to them expressly in terms of financial costs or human lives has innured us to their toll. More to come later when I read the full proposal, which, if it’s like Beto’s immigration proposal will be very long and require time to digest.

  120. 120.

    A Ghost To Most

    @Immanentize:
    Talk about the combination of meth and alcohol and guns. That’s where shit goes seriously off the rails.

    So many liars.

  122. 122.

    Betty Cracker

    @Immanentize:

    How much tax money just got diverted from health care?

    Exactly! We (everyone) are paying and paying — even if our tax rates don’t go up.

  124. 124.

    Kathleen

    @Baud: Very interesting take.I totally agree with assessment of current situation. I’m not supporting Biden in primary but I agree with everything else.

  125. 125.

    J R in WV

    @JPL:

    @satby: Georgia is acquiring new voting machines and they feel they need the extra time . Unfortunately, the delay could mean that the candidate already has the necessary votes to secure the nomination.

    Georgia doesn’t need and shouldn’t want new voting MACHINES~!!~

    Who wants to bet these machines are built by a Republican owned and managed company?

    Who want to bet it would take a college student in CS 20 minutes to figure out how to break in and alter the code in one of these machines?

    All Georgia needs is a rule that printed paper ballots are used, with NO 2 lead pencils to mark them, and that counting happens in public with interested citizens and candidates watching. If they need faster results, use more counters!

    I remember when the CEO of Diebold, maker of ATMs with audit trails for the bank’s money, built voting machines with NO audit trails because your Democratic votes weren’t important. Then he told Republicans after Deomcrats won a big election, “Don’t worry, that’ll never happen again!” What do YOU think that meant??? I think it meant just what he said.

  130. 130.

    Kathleen

    He’s on my last nerve. ETA meant to be reply to Debbie icw Nance. Geezer Commenting (Trademark) yet again

  132. 132.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Tips for Staying Civil while Debating Child Prisons

    Avoid unkind generalizations like equating the jailing of ethnic minorities with some malevolent form of fascism.

    Consider that we all have different perspectives stemming from things like age, ethnicity, or level of racism.

    Recall that violently rejecting a tyrannical government goes against everything our forefathers believed in.

    Find common ground by recognizing that some kids are huge assholes.

    Make sure any protests are peaceful, silent, and completely out of sight of anyone who could actually affect government policy.

    Give your political opponents the benefit of the doubt by letting this play out for 20 years and seeing if it gets any better on its own.

    Realize that every pressing social issue is solved through civil discourse if you ignore virtually all of human history.

    Remind yourself that you’re just two people having a cocktail at the same D.C. party and that politics is a game to you.

    Avoid painting with a broad brush. Not everyone in favor of zero-tolerance immigration wants to see children in cages—it’s more likely that they just don’t care.

  133. 133.

    rikyrah

    Agriculture Department buries studies showing dangers of climate change
    The Trump administration has stopped promoting government-funded research into how higher temperatures can damage crops and pose health risks.
    By HELENA BOTTEMILLER EVICH
    06/23/2019 05:04 PM EDT Updated 06/23/2019 06:02 PM EDT

    The Trump administration has refused to publicize dozens of government-funded studies that carry warnings about the effects of climate change, defying a longstanding practice of touting such findings by the Agriculture Department’s acclaimed in-house scientists.

    The studies range from a groundbreaking discovery that rice loses vitamins in a carbon-rich environment — a potentially serious health concern for the 600 million people world-wide whose diet consists mostly of rice — to a finding that climate change could exacerbate allergy seasons to a warning to farmers about the reduction in quality of grasses important for raising cattle.

    All of these studies were peer-reviewed by scientists and cleared through the non-partisan Agricultural Research Service, one of the world’s leading sources of scientific information for farmers and consumers.

    None of the studies were focused on the causes of global warming – an often politically charged issue. Rather, the research examined the wide-ranging effects of rising carbon dioxide, increasing temperatures and volatile weather………………………………….

  136. 136.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Air Canada said on Sunday it was looking into how crew members could have disembarked from a plane without noticing a sleeping passenger who was left behind.

    The airline was responding to an incident involving a woman who described waking up “all alone” on a “cold dark” aircraft after a flight to Toronto earlier this month.

    “I think I’m having a bad dream bc like seriously how is this happening!!?!” Tiffani Adams recounted in a 19 June Facebook post provided by a friend, Deanna Noel-Dale.

    The airline confirmed the incident took place but declined to comment on its disembarking procedures or how the passenger may have been overlooked.

    “We are still reviewing this matter so we have no additional details to share, but we have followed up with the customer and remain in contact with her,” Air Canada said.

    Adams wrote that after she woke up, she called Noel-Dale to try to explain what happened, but her phone died and she couldn’t charge it because power to the plane was off. She said she was “full on panicking” by the time she found the “walky talky thingys in the cockpit”, which also didn’t work.

    After no one saw the “SOS signals” she made by shining a flashlight out the window, she unbolted a cabin door. Facing a steep drop to the tarmac, she leaned out of the aircraft and called over a ground crew, who got her out.

    The passenger wrote that Air Canada personnel asked if she was OK and whether she would like a limo and hotel but she declined the offer. She said airline representatives apologized and said they would investigate.

    “I haven’t got much sleep since the reoccurring night terrors and waking up anxious and afraid I’m alone locked up someplace dark,” she wrote.

  137. 137.

    Cacti

    @Baud:

    Non-military households would pay a “war tax” to help cover the health care of veterans of newly-authorized wars under a plan Beto O’Rourke’s campaign unveiled Monday.

    Sounds vaguely fascist.

  138. 138.

    Wapiti

    @Kay: if any of the moderators allow Trump INTO the D debates (with his real-time tweets) I will be furious.

    Damn good point. Hope Tom Perez thinks of this.

  139. 139.

    Tenar Arha

    @Kay:

    The Chuck Todd interview is terrible, but realize that Todd had to sit thru that whole thing knowing that NONE of it is real. It’s a pack of lies. Why bother?

    Yep. I didn’t watch any of it, even the teasers I’ve avoided listening by hitting mute. I have many problems with MSNBC, including their status quo & corporate bias. I mean, I know they are not liberal TV, though everyone not actively paying attention assumes they are.

    But especially someone like Chuck Todd gets no sympathy from me from sitting there through an avalanche of lies. He chose his life, and has decided how to run his show.

    I heard an interview with Chuck a few years ago. Found it thru Driftglass & Blue Gal’s podcast. He knows better than any of us that he gets constantly lied to, though IIRC he called it spun, every weekend. And he basically said outright that he “lets his audience decide” what to believe because otherwise he wouldn’t have “guests” coming on his show.

    I’ll admit it, I get utterly pissed off & disgusted by people who clearly know better. Someone like Chris Matthews is a repetitive, one note, clown stuck so far in the past I cannot take him seriously, but Todd is not. Because he’s smart enough to know the difference & he’s still 100% on board with letting politicians & political operatives lie to him & his viewers, as long as he gets them to come back to fill seats. I think he decided to be/become a soulless corporate hack years ago because he wants his millions & his Village membership & his seat on MTP. If that meant he had to let people lie to him without correcting them every day, okay. Chuck looking like Trump’s doormat on national television, turns any empathy I might have had into more disgust, bc he chose his role.
    /rant

  140. 140.

    rikyrah

    Peanut wants to go see Toy Story 4.
    Can you believe that the first Toy Story came out in 1995
    1995???
    I feel so old :(

  141. 141.

    Joe Falco

    @Baud:

    Ok, a “war tax” seems to me is that it implies we, as a nation, are actually at war with another nation-state. Since when has there been an actual declaration of war for the past however many decades?

  142. 142.

    Immanentize

    @Joe Falco: I’ve never understood this “undeclared” war is not war stupidity. Neither do the dead soldiers and their grieving families.

  143. 143.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Wapiti: If that happens and I were on the stage, I’d say something like “X,Y, and Z are happening and the president is failing to address them. The American people want him to get off twitter and do his job.”

    Trump doesn’t get to set the subject of the debate.

  144. 144.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    @satby: And the Nicholas Brothers and Cab Calloway also demonstrate what well-fitted formalwear is supposed to look like.

  145. 145.

    Richard Guhl

    @OzarkHillbilly: The problem is the Senate. Unless we pick up four seats (to allow for the loss of Jones in Alabama ), all the proposals made by the candidates are just so much rainbows and unicorn farts.

  147. 147.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The # of violent drunks I have had the displeasure of knowing however are innumerable.

    THIS! My father-in-law was the sweetest man, gentle and kind, as long as he was sober. But he was a mean, nasty drunk. Because he drank enough to kill himself, it took a while for me to learn about his real kinder side. Came home many times after totaling a car, getting into a fight in a bar, etc, etc. Sad.

    Dies of acute liver disease at what was an early age for his family. Pretty horrible way to go.

  149. 149.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Richard Guhl: Yes, and I wonder why the candidates don’t reply to the question of “What about Mitch?” with “I intend to electorally remove him and as many as his stoneage colleagues as I can.” Of course that would be hyperbole, but so the fuck what? It would also be politics and signal an intent to fight on all fronts. I’ll leave it to others to decide whether or not it is smart politics.

    Don’t surrender to the All Powerful All Seeing Turtle Head.

  150. 150.

    JoeyJoeJoe

    @Kay:

    Not the point of the article, but Wyoming, not West Virginia, gave shithead his widest victory margin % wise. I don’t see why reporters make statements that are factually incorrect; if they’re not sure, just don’t write it.

  152. 152.

    rikyrah

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Avoid painting with a broad brush. Not everyone in favor of zero-tolerance immigration wants to see children in cages—it’s more likely that they just don’t care.

    Them not caring IS the point.

  154. 154.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Front Pager bait: Our View: Cowards will be our downfall

    St. Cloud, we have a problem. And it’s costing us dearly in respect, dignity and treasure.

    Our problem is not refugees.

    It’s not even an image problem, although we most certainly have one of those. If you don’t think so, Google “St. Cloud” and click on the first New York Times article at the top.

    Our real problem is that there are too many cowards in our midst.

    Yes, we said it: Cowards.

    Cowards who blanch at the idea of Somalis “just walking around” on a public trail.

    Cowards who cost local businesses thousands of dollars by overreacting to a mismarked security vehicle out of fear of Sharia law — which isn’t coming for us. It just isn’t, and only cowards believe it is.

    Cowards who festoon their pickup trucks with loud mufflers and confederate flags to strike fear in others as they attempt to cover their own inadequacies.

    Cowards who are too afraid to shop, dine or relax in contrived “no-go zones” also used by people “not from Norway” who like to shop, dine and relax.

    Cowards who let discourse run into the sewer because it wouldn’t be Minnesota Nice to ask a keyboard warrior or blowhard relative to support their wild claims with facts.

    Cowards who say #notallSt.Cloudians then carry on meekly as if that absolves our community in the eyes of the world.

    Or, say, the cowards who, behind the rhetoric and the “facts” they use to promote their hate, so transparently and deeply fear a future in which they might be a minority. And get treated just like one.

    All of that gutless timidity by a vocal flock — and we do believe they are outnumbered by Central Minnesotans who can see someone who is “other” with enthusiastic curiosity or at worst benign disinterest — is what defines St. Cloud to the world now.

  156. 156.

    A Ghost To Most

    @J R in WV:
    My father was mean as a snake even when sober. He broke his hip, and because his liver was toast, they couldn’t fix it. He had to lay there until he kicked. Heh.

  157. 157.

    chris

    Well, shit, this’ll never work.//

    Colleague @HolmesLybrand and I fact-checked nine of the Democrats who spoke Saturday at the SC convention. We found zero objectively false or misleading claims from seven: Sanders, Warren, O’Rourke, Booker, Buttigieg, Gillibrand, Castro.— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) 24 June 2019

  160. 160.

    Gin & Tonic

    @chris: Huh. Seven from nine leaves two, as I recall. I don’t see Uncle Joe on Daniel Dale’s list, who else? Harris?

  163. 163.

    Miss Bianca

    @(((CassandraLeo))): With you on this one. For me it’s Harris and Warren first, the rest nowhere.

    btw, did you have a link to that Deathspell Omega interview you referenced in another thread? That was you, right?

  164. 164.

    Betty Cracker

    @OzarkHillbilly: Just saw the video announcement for Susan Collins’ opponent (Sara Gideon), and Gideon ties McConnell and Trump around Collins’ neck very effectively, IMO. I hope she sends Collins packing and that other Dem candidates take a page from that playbook — everybody hates McConnell; even Republicans can’t stand the corrupt old wretch, though they’ll probably keep him in office until he croaks of old age.

  165. 165.

    japa21

    @OzarkHillbilly: Love the whole thing but specially this:

    Or, say, the cowards who, behind the rhetoric and the “facts” they use to promote their hate, so transparently and deeply fear a future in which they might be a minority. And get treated just like one.

    Ever since 9/11 the GOP ,in particular, has decided the national anthem doesn’t include the line “home of the brave”.

  166. 166.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Gin & Tonic: Yeah, I was just reading the article at CNN. Biden claimed he was part of passing a bill that banned private prisons, but there was no such bill, just executive action. He also was off on the percentage of Americans who live in poverty.

    Harris claimed major responsibility for something, and Dale says that is probably an exaggeration.

    The comments on twitter are amusing. People moan that he and CNN never fact check Trump.

  173. 173.

    Kay

    @Wapiti:

    if any of the moderators allow Trump INTO the D debates (with his real-time tweets) I will be furious.

    Trump’s a dumb, mean-spirited bore and his tv ratings are dropping. He shouldn’t be allowed to use the D Debates to up his ratings and the careers of the media people who have tied their careers to his. Stop foisting him on us. I’m not in this gross alliance. It benefits me not at all.

  174. 174.

    Kay

    Margot Sanger-Katz
    ‏Verified account
    @sangerkatz
    17h17 hours ago
    More
    If you just watch teen dramas, you’ll get a very misleading picture of adolescence today. Teenagers today are less reckless and more responsible than past generations. It’s an astounding trend that’s easy to miss.

    I wonder why older people are so damn reluctant to credit younger people for this. They are less reckless. They’re also less violent. They drink, smoke cigarettes and use drugs less than their elders did. They get pregnant WAY less then their elders did, particularly AA and Latino teenagers, where the drops have been HUGE. They’re also smarter, if your measure for “smart” is standardized tests, and that was always the (admittedly reductive and deceptive) measure for “smart” until young people outscored their elders.

    Why are we so ungenerous towards them that we insist these things aren’t true? They are true. On all of the conventional measures they are, in fact, better. Now, one can object to the measures, but don’t move the goalposts and then say you won!

  176. 176.

    The Moar You Know

    Fire 40 cruise missiles? How much tax money just got diverted from health care?

    @Immanentize: 31 million dollars – and that’s for the cheapest cruise missile.

  178. 178.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kay: I can see it just in the young people I know through my community theater. They are wise, thoughtful, smart, sober, and talent is just oozing from their pores. They are *so much more together* than I was at their age, it’s unbelievable. The hope I have for the future comes from watching them in action.

  179. 179.

    Kay

    I wonder if part of this is the liberal tendency not to take credit, because we have contests on how shitty we can say things are. Some of your stuff WORKED. School lunches? HUGE success. Education investment and prek? Take a bow. Pregnancy prevention in teenagers? Dear God, you improved that by 50%. Bullying prevention that every conservative made fun of? Guess what? If you raise the bar and tell them they can’t beat the shit out of each other in school they will stop doing it.
    Relatedly, if you tell people in the workplace they many no longer sexually harass women they will meet that higher bar! They will bitch and moan and scream but they will fucking do it or they won’t work in these places anymore. Progress is possible. Better. They literally get better. Maybe not in their hearts, but at least they will stop harming others.

  181. 181.

    The Moar You Know

    I wonder why older people are so damn reluctant to credit younger people for this. They are less reckless. They’re also less violent. They drink, smoke cigarettes and use drugs less than their elders did. They get pregnant WAY less then their elders did, particularly AA and Latino teenagers, where the drops have been HUGE. They’re also smarter, if your measure for “smart” is standardized tests, and that was always the (admittedly reductive and deceptive) measure for “smart” until young people outscored their elders.

    @Kay: Because it makes the “elders” look like the selfish shitheads they are. Was talking to a youngster about this yesterday. They’ve got both the Boomers (grandparents) and the Gen Xers (parents) shitting on them mercilessly. And they are a far more responsible and decent generation than any of their predecessors, and maintain that in spite of the fact that we (older folks) are robbing them of income and opportunities at every turn.

    They know it, too. I hope they’re more kind than their parents.

  183. 183.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    This lady who woke up abandoned on a cold dark airplane could have / should have pulled an emergency slide inflater to escape from the plane — I bet that would have attracted some attention, even at midnight.

    Really, she did OK for herself, not harmed or injured physically.

    I might have filed a suit already, the hell with expecting the airline to make thing all well out of the goodness of their hearts. That might put you on the airline’s “can not fly” list, small loss…

  184. 184.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    But I feel like it leads to “oh, nothing works, why bother?” It Will Always Be Like This. Which is what Paul Ryan wants you to say.

  185. 185.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I don’t know why today’s youngs are more affected by what their elders think of them than past youngs.

    The only legitimate knock I have against young people is their disproportionate support for Bernie. But they’re still better than the olds when it comes to the general election.

  186. 186.

    Kay

    And what a weird and horrible ideology. “People are mean and bad and that’s just the way they are”

    That’s Trumpism in a nutshell. It’s permissive. It’s “we demand a lower bar!” How DARE you ask them to stop saying racist things. They will never, ever meet that bar- why, you’re guaranteeing their failure because everyone knows they couldn’t possibly stop being such assholes.

  187. 187.

    MomSense

    @Betty Cracker:

    She’s really good but we have a long list of really outstanding politicians and good people who have lost to Collins. Collins is a tough competitor. We have to get behind Sara because she is a rock star. I would love it if she could oust Collins and not just to get rid of Collins. Gideon is someone who would do really good things in the Senate.

  188. 188.

    The Moar You Know

    This lady who woke up abandoned on a cold dark airplane could have / should have pulled an emergency slide inflater to escape from the plane — I bet that would have attracted some attention, even at midnight.

    @J R in WV: Wouldn’t work. Those doors only function when armed, and they’re disarmed most of the time save on taxi, takeoff and landing. Those drugged-up lunatics who try to open one midflight every now and then scare the shit out of everyone and with good cause, but they won’t open.

    Nor will they open when parked. She was good and stuck. Good thing she got the one phone call out before her phone died.

  189. 189.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    We had 2 Bernistas and 2 “others” (young) at a gathering over the weekend. The Bernistas are wavering. I can TELL :)

    I want them to be able to save face when they switch so they won’t hear a word out of me. I was like “oh? I hadn’t realized you were backing him” Complete lie.

  190. 190.

    Matt McIrvin

    @The Moar You Know: I see this disconnect all the time in which people blame the educational system for bad modern politics– the decline of civics education, critical thinking education, whatever. But if that were true, young people would be the worst, and they’re not. It’s the old people who supposedly had all this wonderful education from the old times who are getting worse.

  192. 192.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Yeah, good strategy. As much as you’d like to, you can’t just slap them.

    By you, I mostly mean me.

  195. 195.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin:

    One thing about social media is that we are focused on things that are viral rather than the average. So the average gets better, but we thing things are getting worse because the worse is what’s being seen.

  196. 196.

    chopper

    @Kay:

    cynical hipsterism really is a big reason why liberals policies don’t get the traction they should.

  197. 197.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Environmentalism is particularly prone to this–I know a lot of liberals who believe the environmental movement has never really accomplished anything, I think because doom and horror are better for fundraising than touting your actual accomplishments: there’s a fear of complacency if people think things have gotten better. But it’s actually had titanic successes, many of them. Pollution before the Clean Air Act, etc. was BAD. Humanity dodged an ozone-hole bullet with the Montreal Protocol. And more.

  199. 199.

    The Moar You Know

    Environmentalism is particularly prone to this–I know a lot of liberals who believe the environmental movement has never really accomplished anything

    @Matt McIrvin: I no longer get crippling asthma attacks every year because of California’s clean air laws. So fuck those people. Those laws MATTER.

  201. 201.

    James E Powell

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I know that what DEMs have been doing, the way they talk about the issues in insufficient to counter the AM radio/FOX news/GOP Axis of Evil.

    You left out CNN, NYT, WaPo, and the entire nation of local radio & TV news.

    But I agree with you that the Democrats’ methods are not working. I don’t think enough of them realize it.

  202. 202.

    satby

    @Matt McIrvin: @The Moar You Know: even the reduction in crime and violence is attributed to the reduction of lead exposure from leaded gas pollution. But, just like with vaccinations, people (especially younger ones), don’t realize how dramatically better their lives are because a lot of those improvements started before they were born.

  204. 204.

    James E Powell

    @Richard Guhl:

    Unless we pick up four seats (to allow for the loss of Jones in Alabama ), all the proposals made by the candidates are just so much rainbows and unicorn farts.

    No. If we fall short in the senate, the White House proposals that are passed in the house become the leverage issues for the 2022 midterms.

  205. 205.

    Kay

    @satby:

    I was just fascinated when that came out. Wow. We were poisoning them! When we stopped poisoning them they got better!

    I credit Kevin Drum for talking about it. He’s good. He contributes. Adds value.

  208. 208.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    There’s a practical reason to do less of it. People won’t work without hope. So, make sure and mention that while the GOP are passing voter suppression laws, 20-some states have EXPANDED voting access. They have to think they can win.

  209. 209.

    Immanentize

    @Matt McIrvin:
    L.A. Smog? It was like Beijing. The Charles River could not be fallen into. Northeastern canoing spots today were toxic plant sewage drain holes.* New England States were suing Midwestern States for acid rain. Remember that? Coming to a federal court in the Northeast soon: Acid Rain: More Acid than Rain Boogaloo.

    *This one is for OldGold:
    By the sewer I lived, by the sewer I died.
    They said it was murder,
    But it was sewerside.

  215. 215.

    tobie

    @Joe Falco: well, I’ve now read that the tax would only be levied if we were at war. It’s meant to discourage going to war. A well crafted proposal frim O’Rourke.

  216. 216.

    James E Powell

    Big important question: Can Sara Gideon defeat Susan Collins?

    I don’t know a thing about Maine politics and would love to hear a local expert’s view.

  218. 218.

    Kay

    PolitiFact
    ‏Verified account
    @PolitiFact
    3h3 hours ago
    More
    Once again in an interview with @chucktodd Sunday, President @realDonaldTrump adamantly claimed that the separation of immigrant families at the border during his presidency happened because of an Obama policy. That’s not true.

    But we’re going to keep interviewing him and asking him the same questions although there is no actual information received or transmitted, and zero actual value to our viewers. Because doing that benefits Chuck Todd and Donald Trump. One is playing journalist and the other is playing president. You must play along or you hate the First Amendment.

  219. 219.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    Wait until someone starts charting head injuries and juvenile infractions/reckless behavior. I’ve already heard murmers. “I wonder….”

    Sports! Under ATTACK! :) You know how they ask you at the doctors office if your child ever had a “near drowning” at intake? They’ll be doing that for hits to the head.

  220. 220.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    We had 2 Bernistas and 2 “others” (young) at a gathering over the weekend. The Bernistas are wavering. I can TELL :)

    BWA HA HA HA HA HAH A

  221. 221.

    MomSense

    @James E Powell:

    Here’s her opening video. It’s very Maine- understated. In her video she stands in my favorite yarn shop, Halcyon in Bath. It’s an institution. My grandmother shopped there. Then you see her standing with the crane at Bath Iron Works in the background. That red and white crane has been a fixture in all our lives for 40+ years. It’s an important signal for union workers, navy people (they still detach active duty navy to the destroyers being built and tested), and to conservative pro defense people.

    She’s a really good retail politician and speaker.

  223. 223.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @OzarkHillbilly: Obviously, legislation should be the preferred method to effect change. Great, we got that out of the way. The question is what do you do when you don’t have the numbers in Congress to get what you want. The Harris plan to use EOs makes sense in that situation. Or should we just do fuck all about anything until we have the numbers in the Senate?

  225. 225.

    Miss Bianca

    @MomSense: Yay, a credible challenger to Collins! Whatever happened to that big bucket o’ crowd-funded cash to a Collins challenger? Didn’t Collins do some kind of sore-loser-in-advance thing where she tried to get a court order to block it, or something?

  226. 226.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @tobie: I still think it is a bad idea. How would you define military families? And even after that, it is heading further down the road toward Starship Troopers than I care to go.

  227. 227.

    MomSense

    @Miss Bianca:

    I think it was a pledge to contribute so I’m really not sure where it stands. I should probably check and see if I have received any notification about it.

  228. 228.

    Betty Cracker

    @tobie: O’Rourke’s heart may be in the right place, but targeting civilians and exempting military families inadvertently reinforces the bullshit “warrior class” ethos that is already distressingly rampant in this country.

  229. 229.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Another reason is that some people do remember the old problems and worries, and without a little bit of triumphalism from those who actually made it better, they tend to assume these problems weren’t real in the first place or that they got better by themselves. I’ve heard “whatever happened to the ozone hole?” and “whatever happened to acid rain?” brought up as mockery of environmental hysteria (or just in puzzlement). What happened? There were new regulations and changes in practice, and the problems were mitigated. The ozone hole is still there but it’s not growing by leaps and bounds. Those are both really huge successes.

  230. 230.

    Gravenstone

    @Baud: Yeah, no. How about we cancel a couple pie in the sky weapons programs and re-purpose those funds to tending to the needs of our veterans?

  231. 231.

    Gravenstone

    @satby: I could support that aspect of the argument. But the current framing of it is a non-starter. There needs to be greater emphasis in increasing civic involvement and investment in our military actions going forward, rather than just calling it a “tax” of any stripe.

  233. 233.

    AxelFoley

    @rikyrah:

    Peanut wants to go see Toy Story 4.
    Can you believe that the first Toy Story came out in 1995
    1995???
    I feel so old :(

    How do you think I feel? My daughter was born in 1995.

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