I keep seeing people talk about last night’s lineup as Warren & a bunch of scrubs. Who’s tonight? A 77 year old, a 76 year old, a local gov’t technocrat who’s never won a Dem primary or defeated a Repub, two novelty candidates, & Fmr Gov Get Off My Lawn You Scary Socialist.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) June 27, 2019
The Guardian‘s invaluable liveblog is here.
Sponsor NBC’s livestream here.
Barstool Sports is two ranks beneath unspeakable, but I have a weakness for comedian ‘PFT Commenter’, who’s… probably not wrong here:
..I think the real fireworks are coming later on tonight where Bernie, Buttigieg, Harris, and company will have to reckon with the former Vice President, and the realization that if the Onion had made Joe Biden less rapey no one would want to vote for him, and if the New York Times had made Trump more rapey no one would have either. Cable news tells me Biden is the guy who could win votes in states like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and other states that have forcefields around them for other nominees. Essentally Democrats want to run Biden because he repersents their version of Trump, except instead of calling Obama a Kenyan merely positioned himself to be president in the event that the birthers were right…
Baud
Bernie is our version of Trump.
zhena gogolia
I don’t see Harris accounted for in that first tweet. Is she a “novelty candidate”?
Baud
Go Team 2!
TenguPhule
There is so much wrong in this sentence.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
What is this our, kimo sabe?
Billcoop4
Yang goes no tie.
BC
Baud
@TenguPhule:
He’s on our stage.
Jerzy Russian
A 77 year old and a 76 year old? For dudes, that is getting up there. I am old, and they are old enough to be my father.
Brachiator
I see it as Kamala Harris and a bunch of nobodies.
NotMax
About those relegated to the end positions:
“Who are they? What are they doing there?”
– ghost of Adm. Stockdale
;)
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Wilmer looks like he was sucking on lemon peels.
Betty Cracker
Barstool Sports…still unspeakable.
Baud
I hope Biden goes all “malarkey” on Bernie.
zhena gogolia
I hope Kamala can get a word in edgewise. But it’s up to you guys to keep me informed. Too nervous to watch.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, from this sample, I don’t see any reason to disagree with you on that.
Another Scott
Got my glass of Trader Joe’s Merlot, have MSNBC playing on this laptop, let’s see what happens…
Cheers,
Scott.
Billcoop4
Bota Box Nighthawk red here.
BC
NotMax
Finger wag at 3 minutes in.
dmsilev
Someone should tell Sanders that only Queen Elizabeth gets to use the royal we.
zhena gogolia
@dmsilev:
Ugh, they started off with him?
Brachiator
Crap! I’m not going to get home in time to watch the start of the debate. I think I’m recording it. Is it 90 minutes? 2 hours?
Kent
FFS, I think I’ve heard this same exact speech from Biden 25 times.
Billcoop4
2 hours
BC
dmsilev
@zhena gogolia: And from there to Biden. Not surprising really; they’re by far the two highest-polling people tonight.
Baud
@Brachiator:
Two hours. But I’m sure it’ll be available to stream.
NotMax
@Brachiator
2 hours.
Baud
@Kent:
In fairness, a lot of people will be paying attention for the first time.
dmsilev
Kamala Harris jams the “won’t you pay for your programs?” question right back in Guthrie’s face (pointing out that the GOP doesn’t give a shit about that sort of thing).
Betty Cracker
Good answer from Harris!
FelonyGovt
Bernie is so annoying.
Billcoop4
Harris returns serve against Guthrie.
BC
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Harris is blowing off the doors
Omnes Omnibus
Christ, Hickenlooper, the GOP will say bad things about Dems no matter what.
dmsilev
Someone tell Hickenlooper (sp?) that Republicans will call Democrats socialists no matter what they say or don’t say.
Percysowner
@NotMax: Yeah, my thought is anyone who wants to be able to get to bed sober had better not play a “Bernie wags his finger”drinking game. OTOH, Kamela Harris pulled out her finger as well.
Kent
I don’t understand Harris’ tax proposal. For everyone earning less than 100k she is going to offer a 500k monthly check? Or 500 off their existing taxes? Maybe I should read it.
NotMax
Harris: “On day one I will repeal that tax bill.”
Um, what?
zhena gogolia
@dmsilev:
That was great. I’m actually able to watch this one.
A Ghost To Most
@Jerzy Russian: Based on the available evidence, you are not BJ old. I’m not even BJ old. Still, I agree. Warren may be the exception that proves the point.
chris
Eeeeeek!!!! Soshulism!!!!
zhena gogolia
Well, actually pretty good answer from Bernie. But I still don’t want Him!
dmsilev
Not generally a fan of Sanders, but that was good.
Kent
@Omnes Omnibus: He’s a total dud. I haven’t seen him speak before. Surprising how much bigger the Presidental stage is than that of a Governor. Because these are seasoned politicians and they still look bad.
Ohio Mom
I know this is petty but who does Hickenlooper’s hair? It’s awful.
A Ghost To Most
@dmsilev: Militant Moderate should STFU, and we voted for him twice.
Kathleen
I’m just going to put this here:
https://twitter.com/JRubinBlogger/status/1144356771571687424
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Bernie looks annoyed that the debate is keeping him from watching ESPN
lamh36
Kamala showing how you swing a stupid question around to make it work for a better answer than the question deserved!
Kamala came prepared!
zhena gogolia
Gawd, Gillibrand is doing a de Blasio tonight. She is not doing herself any favors.
zhena gogolia
BUTTIGIEG SPEAKS THE BEST ESPANOL!
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I was hoping he’d go with Norwegian.
NotMax
Buttigieg looks as if he’s sporting yesterday’s 5 o’clock shadow as well as today’s.
Raven
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: There’s nothing on.
FelonyGovt
Buttigieg actually did quite well, I thought.
zhena gogolia
Buttigieg is very vivid. Hard to believe he’s just a mayor of a smallish town.
zhena gogolia
These questions are so bad.
Baud
@NotMax:
Wants to look older.
Raven
@FelonyGovt: He mentioned his husband too!
dmsilev
“Value gains”. Yup, he’s a tech exec.
Cacti
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Bernie looks like the candidate everyone would least like to have a beer with.
FelonyGovt
WTF is Yang talking about?
Billcoop4
Questions are wretched.
BC
Billcoop4
Biden is ready to pounce.
BC
zhena gogolia
Why do they think it’s a good idea to shoehorn in their little anecdotes.
Bad one from Swalwell.
Kent
OK, I’m kind of liking Swalwell. Burn on Biden
Ben Cisco
Swallwell slaps Joe with a trout.
dmsilev
Interchangeable White Guy: “Old guys suck. Just ask Joe Biden from 32 years ago.”
Joe Biden: “Screw You”
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
Oh, I thought it was stupid.
NotMax
Swalwell wins the Most Dapper award. And the orange racial tolerance ribbon on the lapel a plus (which won’t go unnoticed among POC).
dmsilev
@FelonyGovt:
Ideating a synergistic paradigm shift.
Omnes Omnibus
They are losing control.
zhena gogolia
I knew they wouldn’t let Kamala get a word in edgewise.
Major Major Major Major
Elizabeth Warren is winning tonight’s debate so far, for sure.
FelonyGovt
We should have set up a drinking game -every time Bernie says “Wahhlll Street”.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Bernie loves to shout down a woman
dmsilev
OK, everyone playing the Senator Sanders Drinking Game, I think that rant is two drinks and a shot. Maybe 2 shots.
zhena gogolia
KAMALA RULES!
Ben Cisco
Harris!!
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
And I think they like it.
Raven
ca-ching
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Harris = KNOCK OUT!
NotMax
Harris en fuego.
Kent
After all the Bickering, Harris really comes through. She is striking the right tone of seriousness but not shrill.
zhena gogolia
She makes every second count.
Cacti
@Major Major Major Major:
Yeah, her promise to end private health insurance was a home run. LoL
dmsilev
“Show of hands question” deserves a raised middle finger in response. Just as a general principle you understand.
Raven Onthill
It’s “Pick on Bernie night,” whee! Start off with a hard question for him. He handled it pretty well. Then I watched him look sidewise at Biden as Biden blithered on, this, “bitch, please” look.
Quickly devolved into an argument over health care. It’s was quite a row.
Harris is quite smooth. Most prosecutors are good public speakers and she’s an excellent one. Listening to her talk about living wages when she still defends her awful work on mortgages back when is … positively Trumpian. I figure a future as President looms.
Raven
Marriane no capiche!
Gin & Tonic
@Cacti: He’s the candidate I’d most like to pour a beer on.
lamh36
“Guys, America doesn’t want to watch a food fight, they want to know how we’re gonna put food on the table.” – Sen. Harris #DemDebate2 #DemDebate2
Kent
Mayor Pete and Kamala Harris are the only two who are really doing well.
Cacti
@Raven Onthill:
About damn time Bernie didn’t get the kid gloves treatment.
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
They’re the only ones I want to hear speak. I wish they’d dismiss everybody else and let them talk.
Gillibrand is the pits.
Major Major Major Major
@Cacti:
Now that all but one of the top-tier candidates have raised their hand for it, and the other is Biden, I suspect it won’t penalize her in the primary.
@Kent: Pete’s Medicare answer was very good.
mak
Kamala’s “food fight” line is an instant classic!
Dorothy A. Winsor
Kamala! “The American people don’t want to watch a food fight.”
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Mayor Pete is flat
lamh36
@Raven Onthill: Sign of a Bernie-Bro…being a former prosecutor is bad, as long as your not a Bernie approved prosector that is…
https://i.imgur.com/AwMdlEH.gif
Cacti
@Major Major Major Major:
Good thing it won’t be tied like an anchor around her neck in the general if she does win the Democratic nom.
Raven Onthill
It’s still “attack Sanders” evening. The health insurance lobbyists and the big money wrote these questions.
dmsilev
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I dunno, if Hillary had jammed a custard pie into Trump’s face she probably would have carried Wisconsin at least.
zhena gogolia
How can anyone be attracted to Bernie? I have the same feeling I do about Trump.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
old man yelling at clouds
plato
Speaking of real 70+ year old assholes..
3rd denial within a week? The rapist thug is panicky.
dmsilev
@Raven Onthill: Biden is also getting pointed questions. Welcome to life as a prominent candidate, and stop whining.
Major Major Major Major
@Cacti: oh, sorry, I didn’t realize you were talking about the general election a year and a half out. Carry on, I’ll chat primary with other commenters.
NotMax
Apparently Wilmer had seconds on lemon harangue pie at dinner.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: I thought you’d be at a party with cute guys.
lamh36
Kent
OK, that was a fucking pathetic answer from Sanders. How are you going to get to medicare for all? Answer: When tens of millions of people stand up to demand it. For fuck’s sake. Is that his answer for everything? People will demand it and then….magic?
Omnes Omnibus
@dmsilev: Culver’s custard?
misterpuff
Excuse me even fucking billionaires get to use the services of the fire department if their (third) mansion is burning and no one says they could pay for their own in-house firefighters. So what if a handful of rich scions go to State U free. Uncle Sam is not going to be paying Hahvard tuition. I went to a private school and got a Pell grant and school loans, so what if a handful of richies participate in that.
But everyone else benefits and perhaps help tilt the wealth gap down the road.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@dmsilev: Heh.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax:
groan but funny
Baud
@dmsilev:
You clearly don’t grasp the difference between vetting and rigging.
A Ghost To Most
@Raven Onthill: Good. He’s not a Democrat, and he’d make a lousy president.
Cacti
@zhena gogolia:
Because they’re angry, emotionally stunted individuals.
But he isn’t Moscow’s choice on the D side this time. It’s Tulsi, as seen by 4chan issuing orders to spam the Drudge online poll in her favor.
Ben Cisco
@lamh36: SAY IT AGAIN!
mad citizen
Marianne W. Friggin’ Awesome!
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: Too grouchy for a party…
Cacti
@misterpuff:
Free college doesn’t make poor kids more likely to go to college.
It makes the kids who were already on a college track able to go for free.
SenyorDave
I will be interested to see how many candidates say they are for getting rid of private insurance companies. Warren is my top choice, but I wish she had hedged on abolishing private insurance. I think it scares people. My understanding is that France, which is consistently rated as one of the best countries for quality and acces to health care has a public/private system.
plato
@Raven Onthill: Snark? Whine?
NotMax
Beginning to think Wilmer is incapable of standing up straight.
dmsilev
@Baud: Anyone who has ever had to hoist an elephant into the air to set a broken leg (and who hasn’t) would tell you that vetting and rigging are inextricably linked.
Raven Onthill
Ms. Anti-vax (Williamson) is now blithering about health care. She really doesn’t know from medicine.
mad citizen
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Loved it! Go Kamala!
chopper
@Raven Onthill:
man, for a bunch of people who bitched up and down about “hillary’s coronation” berniacs sure shit the bed when their guy doesn’t get the kid gloves.
ChrisH
This debate seems like a hell more of a scrum than last night’s. Yesterdays felt far preferable in comparison so far. Loved Harris crushing people for talking over each other.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
old man, with red face, yelling and screaming is really attractive to sane voters.
Cacti
@Major Major Major Major:
“Elizabeth Warren wants to take your insurance away and force you into a government plan!”
-Every dark money R ad until election day
Ben Cisco
Annnnd Savanah gets smacked again! Damn, that was dumb!
zhena gogolia
@NotMax:
Biden’s pretty erect, OTOH.
Major Major Major Major
@ChrisH:
The incentives are totally different, on account of the rosters, and you can definitely tell.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Phrasing!
dmsilev
@ChrisH: Josh Marshall made a good point today about that: Last night, the only one on the stage who is a first-tier contender was Warren. All of the others were trying to attract attention to themselves. Today, we have several contenders, and their incentives are more towards attacking other first-tier people.
FelonyGovt
I admire that Harris (so far) has refrained from sharing a folksy personal story.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: Um…
Baud
@Ben Cisco:
Can’t wait to see what they do to Chuck Todd.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
If Wilmer had a competent staff they would have begged him not to yell and scream like a lunatic.
Raven Onthill
“Raise your hand if your plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants.”
Everyone did.
These questions were written by health care lobbyists.
Buttigieg gave an interesting answer. Biden is blithering like usual.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
He ain’t standing behind me.
Raven
@dmsilev: They’ve been babbling about that on MSNBC all day.
smintheus
Biden in favor of putting insurance execs in jail?! Upside down world we’re in; the kitties will love it.
A Ghost To Most
@Ben Cisco: I’m not watching, but it sounds like the big loser is Guthrie.
Go Kamala.
Kent
@misterpuff:
There are public goods and private goods. I have no problem with free tutition for public universities. It would like the currently free tuition at public K-12 schools which anyone can attend no matter how rich or poor. That is a public good.
On the other hand, loan forgiveness is a private good. It is a government check handed to someone. My wife is a physician and she works with specialists who are earning 500k per year who have 100k or 200k student loans. That they can pay off in a year if they want. I don’t favor handing them a 100k or 200k check to pay off their student loans when single mothers going into debt for other reasons get no help.
Loan forgiveness for all loans would also amount to a massive subsidy in the hundreds of millions for all the religious schools out there like Liberty Baptist run by the Fallwell Clan and Regent University run by Pat Robertson. Not my first priority for my tax dollars.
WaterGirl
I am coming in half an hour late this time. If I fast forward through some of the candidates maybe I can catch up. I thought HIckenlooper was in last night’s debate. I wonder who that was.
FelonyGovt
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: He’s not doing much to endear himself to those who aren’t already true believers.
eclare
@Kent: Agreed. Kamala and Mayor Pete both keeping their cool and getting their points across.
Cacti
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Might as well ask a fish not to swim.
Another Scott
@NotMax: I think he and Biden are having trouble hearing things. I don’t know how much of it is organic and how much is technical.
The woman’s framing of her questions was infuriating…
Cheers,
Scott.
hells littlest angel
Savannah Guthrie apparently asked Chuck Todd to hold her beer.
Ohio Mom
@Raven Onthill: And/or Republicans. Those raised hands are going to haunt us in Trump commercials.
(Of course I want to cover undocumented people. But I don’t want to yell that too loudly because blowback.)
eclare
In moderation?
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
So are the figures at Madame Tussaud’s.
;)
Ben Cisco
@Baud: You and me both brother
lamh36
Professional Black women have had to deal w/this type of shit from white folks all the time…the ones who survive are like Kamala Harris…
They command the space and not let their voices not be heard.
Peep how she barely looked at Salwell and stole all the thunder and got her point heard!
Ben Cisco
@A Ghost To Most: She keeps on with dumbass questions, and nobody is having it.
Omnes Omnibus
Harris is good.
Major Major Major Major
Harris is doing a good job too.
TenguPhule
@Omnes Omnibus:
Candidates or moderators?
zhena gogolia
I tried to say Kamala rules again but the Man won’t let me
A Ghost To Most
@Ben Cisco: So, NBC’s answer to Noron O’Donnell?
Mike in DC
Kamala burning it down.
NotMax
One can practically see the cards of talking points flipping over in Hickenlooper’s mind.
TenguPhule
@Kent:
Let’s be fair, that seems to be the official strategy to deal with Trump too.
Ohio Mom
Interesting to me that Kamala Harris is so maternal.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Good answer by Williamson (calling Dump a kidnapper)
misterpuff
@Cacti: Well a lot of people that wouldn’t have gone did back in the day when California had open admissions or attended City college in NYC. Yeah many may not go but if they work for it academically, they could, But we also need to give free training in trades etc .
Raven Onthill
@lamh36: Hey, I support Warren. As for Harris, my problem is that she’s a hypocrite, not that she has been a prosecutor.
When the first question, directed to Sanders, is “How will you pay for your health care plan?” it sure looks like an attack on Sanders. There was a related followup, too.
Harris is giving a good answer in immigration, though. Maybe she even means it.
Hickenlooper is blithering on immigration. Others are fairly good.
Cacti
And tonight, everyone starts to get a look at why Bernie hasn’t been able to work with anyone in Congress for three decades.
Moar plz.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Harris is just knocking it out of the park.
Harris, Warren, and Castro are the big winners.
Biden also wins by not collapsing on stage.
Wilmer’s bitter sinking ship took on more water.
zhena gogolia
Go Pete!
NotMax
Buttigieg hits a home run with the audience on calling out Rs as religious hypocrites.
Cacti
@misterpuff:
Free college is a bandaid solution as long as massive inequities exist in K12 public education.
Brachiator
@Raven Onthill:
What? How does that work??
zhena gogolia
Biden’s not doing it for me. Better than Bernie, but only just.
Ohio Mom
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I think Mayor Pete is holding his own (disclaimer, I am not his biggest fan).
CaseyL
First, I want to thank y’all for live tweeting this. Since I can’t stand stupidity, and can’t stand Wilmer, I’m taking a pass on watching.
Second, I am VERY happy that Harris is kicking ass. I like Harris a lot, and would love to see her as the nominee.
mad citizen
@NotMax: Ha! He looks like he’s from an old black and white movie.
Immanentize
Wow. Just so much privilege here:
@Raven Onthill:
You are a victim of myth.
FelonyGovt
I think Harris is killing it and Buttigieg is holding his own as well (and I had not been a fan either).
Bernie is very red and shouty.
chris
@Ohio Mom:
There was an ad on MSNBC before the brawl. “Socialism will take away your private insurance and destroy your healthcare! You’ll have to wait six months for a hip replacement!” Et fucking cetera. Paid for by an entity called Onennation, presumably an insurance corp front.
Barbara
@misterpuff: how about doing more to equalize k-12? Without that, free universities exacerbate inequality. Think about it.
Raven
@chris: That and an anti abortion ad.
dmsilev
This whole debate is pathetic compared to the wonders of the GOP 2016 primary debates. Not a single candidate has boasted about his dick size.
lamh36
Biden is just coasting…which is smart, much like Liz Warren on night one during the non-economics parts.
Pete just needs to get by without a misttep..
I may be biased, but IMHO Kamala is OWNING the stage and outshining everyone else
NotMax
Swalwell: “not erase their existence by weaponizing the census.”
Excellent.
Another Scott
@zhena gogolia: Biden keeps skipping over important words in his thoughts or using different words for what he means. He seems over-coached and seems like his mouth is outrunning his brain. It is hurting him, making him look old, IMO.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ben Cisco
@A Ghost To Most: Oui.
Soprano2
Not a Bernie fan, but the thing about executive orders was a good, realistic answer.
Ohio Mom
I’ve just asked Ohio Dad for the third time, Who is that? “Eric Salwell, California Congressman.”
I guess he’s forgettable (Salwell; Ohio Dad is patient).
Major Major Major Major
@FelonyGovt: I like Buttigieg well enough, and I’m pleasantly surprised by how well he’s doing.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
I came in tonight feeling luke warm on Kamala.
But after tonight, I’m writing out a check.
This kind of performance needs positive reinforcement.
dmsilev
@Ohio Mom: Just think of him as Interchangeable White Guy #4.
Raven Onthill
And Sanders has by gosh stood up for reform of central American foreign policy. In another few years everyone will be for it.
Oh, man, Ms. Arrest-the-Parents-of-truant-children is now talking about lenience for undocumented immigrants. Very nice words. But …
Now, geopolitical threats. China. Damn, who wrote these questions?
Barbara
@CaseyL: Following DK, which takes a steno like approach with a bit of annotation.
chris
@Raven: Yer librul media in action.
FelonyGovt
At the CA democratic convention, delegates got lots of swag in our convention bags- buttons, note bags, etc. Swallwell was widely mocked for providing a single shoelace with his name all over it.
Cacti
Has anyone asked AOC for a comment about Bernie’s statement that he wouldn’t close the detention centers?
She seems to have gotten unusually silent.
Baud
@Cacti:
I noticed that too.
Cacti
@Raven Onthill:
“Venezuela is a model for the rest of Latin America.”
-Bernie Sanders
Gwangung
@Major Major Major Major:
Buttigieg is good st appearances. His follow up on policy (see black residents of South Bend) has always been lacking.
Kent
I’m really liking Mayor Pete but he just doesn’t quite feel presidential somehow. That’s his biggest knock. if he were 10 years older maybe. But he feels like the smartest and most thoughtful in the room and is the best explainer of the bunch.
FelonyGovt
@Raven Onthill: How would you deal with truancy? Is it good for parents to just blow off school?
Raven Onthill
@Immanentize: you’re evading what I – and I hope you – just saw live.
Buttigieg mentions AI. Lots of vision there…not sure it’s grounded in reality, though.
dmsilev
Coming up next, Kamala Harris rips out Chuck Todd’s liver and feeds it to him.
NotMax
Much less Spanish than anoche.
:)
MisterForkbeard
Harris has always been one of my top two, and shes really cementing that here. Just threw her a small donation.
misterpuff
@Barbara: My point was (and I didn’t make it clear with my sarcasm) saying you are for free college but worry about rich brats getting a free ride was bs and weak.
What I love about this site is everyone has a slightly differing view of policies and their outcomes.
chris
Heh.
Cacti
Harris is my favorite candidate. I hope she’s able to catch on and start moving up in the polls. Time will tell.
Raven Onthill
@FelonyGovt: Parents don’t blow off school and prosecuting parents for children’s truancy is a cruel and foolish thing. It’s one of these “When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail thing.”
MisterForkbeard
@Raven Onthill: Jesus, you’re tiresome. Pull your head out of Bernie’s ass for a minute and just realize all the candidates are just fine.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Cacti: I missed it, when did he say that?
Nicole
@lamh36:
She’s really doing great.
I’m really tired of all the time they’re giving to Biden, Sanders and Buttigieg. Especially because Buttigieg TOTALLY did that thing guys do in meetings, where a woman offers up an idea, and he dismisses it and then presents the EXACT SAME THING she just said as his idea.
And Marianne Williamson… oh lord. Her and Yang. I don’t want any more non-politicians running for President.
NotMax
Vegas odds on Chuck Todd’s first question being “Hands, please. Who likes pie?” running at 5-3.
mad citizen
Next debates should be one night/half the men, the other the women. Gender take all. The men need to leave this race. We need revenge as well as the best leaders.
Immanentize
@Raven Onthill:
Mostly people see what they are looking for. Bernie is a loser and Kamala is not a cop.
smintheus
This jerk again.
Gin & Tonic
@Another Scott:
SPOILER ALERT: he is old.
Kathleen
@dmsilev: I’d be tempted to send her the remainder of my meager savings if she did that.
Cacti
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
2011 on his Senate website.
Another Scott
Bennet’s comments about his immigration bill, his parents, etc., compared to the monstrous Trump policies was good.
Buttigieg isn’t clicking with me. Most of his comments seem too pat, or something. I’m getting an unpleasant reminder of John Edwards. But this is my first extended exposure to him.
I think Harris and Gillibrand have done well (though Gillibrand was over-aggressive early on trying to jump in to get attention).
I’m disappointed with the questions thus far. Too much of a RW slant. We’ll see how the 2nd hour goes…
Cheers,
Scott.
Percysowner
Apparently, Eric Salwell is topping the Google searches. However, I’m not sure “who the HELL is Eric Salwell?” proves much about how people feel about him.
Baud
@Nicole:
I’m not sure that’s it. I think it’s more like where a woman offers up an idea, and he dismisses it and then presents the EXACT SAME THING she just said as his idea.
Mike in NC
@NotMax: @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Insane voters like an old man with an orange face who yells and screams.
Gwangung
@Raven Onthill: Sorry, but your statement is not correct. It seems rather narrow and not based in experience. Consider other circumstances and situations.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: You’re good tonight.
Immanentize
@Baud: That was masterly.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Can’t remember if it got posted here, but Jackée Harry had a good Twitter joke about Beto O’Rourke not answering a question in both English and Spanish last night.
Gwangung
@Baud: Heh.
smintheus
Harris takes a knife to Biden’s jugular.
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
Never go full Ari Melber.
zhena gogolia
She’s goin there.
NotMax
New thread for 2nd hour please?
Baud
@smintheus:
I hope it’s a warm up for Chuck Todd.
Steeplejack
@Cacti:
Heh, well played.
feebog
Wow, Maddow just hit Pete B. With the toughest question of the night. Buttigieg admitted it was a mess and he had failed, at least in part. I give him high marks for his honesty. I hope he gets credit for it. Harris now going after Biden, bam,
zhena gogolia
ANITA HILL ALL OVER AGAIN
Let him man/whitesplain it to you, Sen. Harris.
Immanentize
@Steeplejack:
That is not unlike Jim Hightower’s comment on learning that the former Governor of Texas, Clayton Williams, was learning Spanish:. “Oh God, now he will be bi-ignorant”
Steeplejack
@Major Major Major Major:
No cute guys?!
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
I didn’t know Biden was a public defender
zhena gogolia
She’s put a torpedo below his waterline.
mad citizen
Kamala goes for a Biden knockout on the praising of the old racist Senators. There’s the Kamala personal story. Kamala getting to him for sure. Great exchange!
Soprano2
Man, the knives are out now!
Ben Cisco
She’s going to light his ass up now.
Gvg
@Cacti: you are wrong. Poor kids are going now, but they drop out a lot from lack of money and when they do get through, they have a lot of debt. I am a state University Financial Aid counselor, and my specific job is to review Academic Progress petitions asking to stay on aid when they haven’t been doing well or are taking too long. They have to explain, provide documentation and show how they plan to or have solved whatever the issue is. Every thing that happens to people out in the world, happens to students, so it’s not alll cost, but that is a big one, and the poor kids are there. We should do better, but don’t dismiss the proposals like that.
My parents were both poor when they went on their own earnings in the 60’s. They got some loans, some grants, but the states kept the costs down by subsidizing colleges more and the minimum wages were worth more then. More poor kids used to manage to go. Think about what’s changed. I had to have help to afford it.
Gin & Tonic
I probably shouldn’t have followed up my evening G&T with a Negroni. Don’t think I’ll be seeing much of hour 2 (not that I saw much of hour 1.)
Omnes Omnibus
Defensive is not a good look, Joe.
FelonyGovt
Candidates really should practice saying LGBTQ.
NotMax
@David Merry Christmas Koch
For significantly less than a year, IIRC.
dmsilev
That was quite something. I think she got under his skin; he was sounding pretty pissed off by the end of his last response.
Kent
Dammmmmmm
Harris leaves Biden grasping for words.
hedgehog mobile
@Gin & Tonic: Heh. I went straight for the bourbon tonight.
Ben Cisco
Bennet: Gridlock will not disappear as long as Mitch McConnell is there.
He ain’t wrong…
Immanentize
defensive, shouty and old is no way to go through life, Biden (this time)
Ben Cisco
Chuck actually asked a question that’s relevant. Damn.
zhena gogolia
Bennet’s a good guy.
mak
@Ben Cisco: Yeah, but only to take the heat off Biden
Anne Laurie
@Baud: Comments like this are why Baud is universally beloved on Balloon Juice!
dmsilev
@Ben Cisco: He promises that he’ll never do that again.
lamh36
Kamala said…NO BISH…as the ONLY Black person on stage…I would like to speak about race.
Even Chuck Todd was like “and..I oop…”
Listen..we all understand what Biden was trying to say…but even his advisors told him to not push that part of his stump speech.
He did it anyway, cause his 8 years w/PBO made him what teflon from the playing with bigots bit?
Nah…he deserves this fire
Ben Cisco
Annd Bennet circles back and hammers Joe again! It’s almost as if he was expecting that statement.
Immanentize
Gosh. Smoke on the water. Bernie ignored, Biden looks like he was benched. Harris FTW.
Cacti
So far, the group Harris is struggling the most to gain traction with is black voters.
I guess we’ll see how her attack plays out.
Chetan Murthy
@Anne Laurie: Baud2020! (<snort> thru my G&T which I sure hope isn’t going up my nose!)
divF
@Gvg: I’m marking this summer 50 years since I was a freshman at UC. When I started, fees for state residents were $300 / year = $2000 in 2019 dollars; now they are $14000 / year. Kids have to dig themselves a much deeper hole now.
Ben Cisco
@mak: I don’t think it worked.
FelonyGovt
Medicare for All does NOT guarantee the right to abortion, Bernie. Sheesh
zhena gogolia
Why are they giving Bernie so much time?
Leto
Bernie believes we can rotate judges like ball players? What the ever living fuck?
mad citizen
@Cacti: Whaaaat? I’m reading the exact opposite.
J R in WV
Our power dropped out around 6 or 7 this evening. Not complaining, thousands of folks have been without power since the tornado earlier this week. Power line crews from Ohio, etc, have been interviewed, said ” steep terrain, hard to reach line down!” No shit, sherlock!
After the Derecho a few years ago, we had crews from all over the east coast, we gave them pecan rolls to much delight, neighbor gave a big crew a quart of ‘shine, they were shocked and happy!! WV gratitude!
Power came back up about 9:20… catching up with things.
TS (the original)
@Raven Onthill:
Democrats want to know the answers – members of that political party that Bernie doesn’t belong to. Good to see that he doesn’t handle having more than one opponent.
NotMax
Wilmer: “I believe we have the Constitutional right to rotate judges to other courts [and that is how we change the structure of the Supreme Court].”
Say what now?
yet another jeff
Why does Bennet keep getting time?
lamh36
Biden has the white man disease where he just can’t say he was wrong or that times have changed.
After 8 years w/Obama…he should be able to do that.
jdahunt
@plato: Trump making American Great Again!
Ben Cisco
“Science fiction instead of science FACT.”
dmsilev
@Ben Cisco: Shouldn’t you be applauding science fiction as a driving force in national policy?
Ben Cisco
“Russia! ”
” Those are the issues that are before us, CHUCK!”
Loving this.
Barbara
@NotMax: Imm can explain it better than I can, but there are options for dealing with SCOTUS.
Immanentize
@NotMax: Sounds like the result of a small stroke to me.
Now Congress could pass a law to do something sorta like that. But the President has no such power.
Nicole
@Baud:
What you did there. See it, I did.
I’m available for vetting for VP once you’ve locked down the nomination, by the way. I don’t think the witchcraft thing should be too disqualifying.
mak
@Ben Cisco: lol, nope
dmsilev
Maddow: “I’d like to bring Gov. Hickenlooper into this”
Rest of America: “Why?”
Cacti
@mad citizen:
She’s pretty much been stalled at about 8% in the polls for months now. Biden’s support is buoyed by good will with black voters because of his two terms as Obama’s VP.
The Root has talked about her having issues the working class black male vote, because of her career as a prosecutor.
But her attack on Biden was definitely strategic.
eclare
@Leto: First I’d heard of that, so what, ship Gorsuch off to some Circuit Court? That’s allowed?
Ben Cisco
@dmsilev: In the hands of someone competent, maybe. Orange Foolius? Nope.
Immanentize
Thank you all. I laughed, I cried. Now I’m going to sleep. Zzzzzz
Anne Laurie
New post, same topic – Part II, up top now…
Another Scott
”We’re 15% of the problem. 85% of the world is the rest.”
:-/
Go back home, Joe.
Cheers,
Scott.
Immanentize
@eclare:
Not under current law. It is not possible.
yet another jeff
@NotMax: By using Medicare for All, of course.
Mike in NC
@zhena gogolia: MSM wants a Bernie-Trump horserace more than we can imagine.
mad citizen
@Cacti: No votes have happened yet. Kamala’s got the ground game going. They’ve texted me 4 times this week, twice tonight.
Another Scott
@Immanentize: Shocking. Unpossible that Bernie didn’t know what he was talking about. Just unpossible.
Cheers,
Scott.
oatler.
When they all talk at once I keep hoping for Whoopi to cut in and say “we gotta go to a commercial now”.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
BINGO!
He said “revolution”
Ohio Mom
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: And Biden said “Obama.” We’ve checked all the boxes.
James E Powell
@Cacti:
I’d bet her problem with the black male vote is just like her problem with the every other kind of male vote. Her career as a prosecutor is just the acceptable to say in public excuse.
Matt McIrvin
@dmsilev: A bunch of science fiction fans on Twitter were offended by that line, but, honestly, given the number of reactionary climate denialists in the science-fiction community they shouldn’t be. I mean, Niven, Pournelle and Michael Flynn literally wrote a book in which the treehuggers plunged us into an ice age because they didn’t realize global warming was good and necessary.
Miss Bianca
Love this bit from the Guardian live-blog, see if you can spot the shade in an unaccustomed spot:
Chuck Todd: Obama wanted to address healthcare and climate change. Ultimately he could only do one. You might only get one shot, what’s your number one issue?
Swalwell: ending gun violence
Bennet: climate change
Gillibrand: passing a family bill of rights that includes pre-K
Harris: working families tax cut, Daca, guns
Sanders: let me do my stump speech, but also, a political revolution
Biden: you’re underestimating what Barack Obama did. He was strong on climate change. But the first thing I’d make sure we do is defeat Trump
Buttigieg: fix our broken political system
Yang: Universal Basic Income, which would help with climate change
Hickenlooper: collaborative approach on climate change
Williamson: call the prime minister of New Zealand and ask for her advice on climate
Kent
Part 2 of the debate blog is now up
Mai Naem mobile
Kamala won. Gillibrand did surprisingly well but I can’t forgive her for Franken. Biden looks surprised by how Harris is whooping his ass. Williamson/Yang/Hickenlooper need to wrap it up and go home.
mak
Few minutes ago it was “we” did this from 2008-2016
So now it’s the “Obama-Biden administration.”
Joe.
Nicole
@Mai Naem mobile:
You know that Harris called for Franken to resign less than an hour after Gillibrand did, yes? And then Warren and several other women Senators did the same thing. It wasn’t Gillibrand calling on him to resign all by herself; it was the women of the Senate, together, calling on him to resign. The media just latched on to Gillibrand because she went first. I think Gillibrand is just okay tonight, nowhere near Harris who is freaking amazing and on fire tonight, but holy cow, it’s exhausting seeing how many people are still mad at Gillibrand because they think that she single-handedly got Franken to resign by holding a gun to his head. He caved under the pressure of several of his colleagues, not just one.
Steeplejack
@Baud:
Okay, LOL.
Mandalay
@Nicole: Gillibrand did something far worse than pushing for Franken to resign a couple of months earlier: she flat out lied about having no plans to run for president during her Senate campaign:
On October 25:
On November 8:
She blatantly lied to the voters until a New New York minute after she had safely secured her Senate seat. Gillibrand is a shameless and mediocre scumbag.
sdhays
@Nicole: I also tire of the bitching about Franken. The way I see it, we gave up Franken for Doug Jones (because a lot of the pressure was related to the Alabama Senate special election), and while I love Al Franken and think he was a really good Senator, we’ve had a larger Democratic Caucus in the Senate because Doug Jones won. It was a painful sacrifice, but as one moron running for President once noted, “politics ain’t beanbag” and it was worth it.
Al Franken is a multimillionaire and still very talented. He’s fine. Babies dying in cages, on the other hand – that’s unforgivable.
Cacti
@James E Powell:
I’d say as a white dude, that’s an intra-family discussion for black voters. I don’t get to tell them what their opinions should be about the criminal justice system or those who make careers in it.