Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

All your base are belong to Tunch.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Consistently wrong since 2002

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Weird (Political) Science

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Weird (Political) Science

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Seems like there’s a Trump metaphor lurking in there somewhere…

Meanwhile, one debate down, another — with the “heavy hitters”, some people say — same time, same place, 9pm EDT on NBC’s weird tardis stage in Miami.

The Washington Post has a full transcript of Wednesday’s debate, if you’re looking for one.

First-night Hot Take Summary, from what I can gather: Julian Castro greatly improved his chances for a Cabinet position, or maybe even the VP slot — unless the guy at the head of the ticket is Beto O’Rourke, and that’s looking somewhat less likely. Also, if #NeverTrump Repubs got to pick a Democratic candidate, it would be Amy Klobuchar — and AFAICT they’re not being snide or sneaky, she just seems like someone Tom Nichols and his friends could be comfortable with (although this may be a case of ‘I’d vote for a woman, just not *that* woman’… ) And, blessedly, among the sane people, even those who don’t much approve of Elizabeth Warren grudgingly admit that she ‘didn’t disgrace herself’ and ‘seemed to be popular with the audience’…

Reader Interactions

138Comments

  2. 2.

    Sab

    I am for Warren or Harris, but I did send money to Castro’s campaign to try to help get him into the debate. I am glad I did.

    Also relieved that Tim Ryan didn’t totally disgrace us in his district. Also relieved that Tim Ryan has finally noticed that there are children in distress on our southern border. ‘Bout time, guy.

  3. 3.

    NotMax

    @OzarkHillbilly

    One leg or both? Frustrating as heck, aren’t they? A thousand home remedies out there on the intertoobz., none of which do the least bit of good.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    Back to the drawing board.

    The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has identified a new potential risk that Boeing must address on its 737 Max before the grounded jet can return to service, the agency told Reuters on Wednesday.

    The risk was discovered during a simulator test last week, sources with knowledge of the matter told Reuters. Source

  6. 6.

    Juju

    @OzarkHillbilly: Eat some bananas today. A Charlie horse can be caused by a low potassium level in your muscles. I hate when Charlie horse happens. I have found that if you put your feet flat on the floor stand and relax then bend, leg straight like you’re going to touch your toes, helps sometimes.

  7. 7.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @NotMax: Both legs, both thigh and calf, first one, than the other, than another… I think I asked my wife for a bullet 3 different times. In some ways it’s harder for her, she wants to help but all she can do is watch me writhe and scream. They’re worse now that I’m on blood thinners.

    A thousand home remedies out there on the intertoobz., none of which do the least bit of good.

    Ain’t that the truth. One thing I have found that helps is ice packs, other times a rubdown with alcohol can alleviate. Still other times… I’m just fucked.

    Last night I was mostly just fucked.

  8. 8.

    Melusine

    Hadn’t seen much of Castro. Very impressed by his performance last night. I think Warren was a bit hampered by the soundbite format, but with so many candidates it’s all they have time for. But she was passionate and engaged and I think I had the strongest closing moment. Maybe because of all the town halls she’s done, it just felt the most confident and genuinely at that leadership level.

    Loved Klobuchar nailing whoever it was on mansplaining his importance to women’s rights. But her closing remarks came across like an Edgar Snyder ad.

    The verging-on-semi-hysterical appeals to returning Democrats to the party of the (W)WC were incredibly off-putting. And tossing in a line about gay and black voters doesn’t change that. It isn’t gay black women who keep voting the Turtle into office. Quit chasing shitgibbon votes, especially in the primary. Gross.

    Beto seemed – a bit overwhelmed.

    Bets on how many minutes Bernie lasts before the finger wagging starts tonight, and which minority he wags at first?

  9. 9.

    NotMax

    Good on those up north.

    For the first time, Canada adds white supremacist neo-Nazi groups to its list of terrorist organizations
    [snip]
    Officially listing a group as a terrorism entity allows authorities to seize the group’s property, prevent financial institutions from doing business with the group, and prosecute people who “knowingly participate in or contribute to, directly or indirectly, any activity” of the group. “This participation is only an offence if its purpose is to enhance the ability of any terrorist group to facilitate or carry out a terrorist activity,” Public Safety Canada’s website says. Source

  10. 10.

    satby

    So judging by a quick scan of the last few threads I didn’t miss much yesterday night. As expected. Glad Castro did a bit better, I like him. Othewise, ho-hum.
    Sounds like the quality of these things would improve immeasurably by banning Chuckles the toad from “moderating” all future “debates”.

  12. 12.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Juju: No offense, I know you mean well. I’m 61 years old and have been living with CHs for damn near ever single one of those years. I know all this and far more than you can ever dream of about “how to stop them”. None of it works. I eat bananas every day. I take 250 mg of magnesium twice a day. I drink water all damn day whether I am thirsty or not. Maybe this helps, I think it does. Stop them? The only thing that will stop them is a bullet to the brain.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    Reading the comments, it seems like then biggest loser was the person who came in with the lowest expectations — Chuck Todd.

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  15. 15.

    Sab

    @OzarkHillbilly: Wow. Here’s another home remedy: when spouse had back surgery a few years ago, they recommended making ice packs from a mix of rubbing alchohol and water. We soaked some kitchen towels in 1/2 alchohol, 1/2 water. Then we double bagged them in the larger zip lock bags, and froze them. The alchohol kept them from freezing hard, so they are very cold but not stiff.

    We still keep three or four of them in the freezer available as needed.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    Biden is way low on my list, but he probably has the most gravitas tonight to tell Bernie to STFU on his shenanigans. Biden will make himself competitive in my book if he avails himself of that opportunity.

  17. 17.

    NotMax

    @satby

    :)

    The Daily Show won the evening with its jabs at the debate which probably started with a response to Donald Trump calling the debate “BORING!” after he said he wouldn’t tweet about the political event. In response to the same tweet TV icon Jackee Harry had her own snarky remark.

    Quit tweeting about your sex life during the #DemDebate. https://t.co/4A0QNC0Adm

    — Jackée Harry (@JackeeHarry) June 27, 2019 Source

    (Personal note: Have no idea who she is.)

  19. 19.

    plato

    After the pathetic 2016 rethugs ‘debates’, I think they have lost of all their relevance in pushing up / pulling down a candidate.

    As usual, the totus thug’s shitty touch strikes.

  21. 21.

    Patricia Kayden

    @NotMax: That’s great news. I’ve been reading about the Yellow Vests violently attacking people on the left (including disrupting a recent Pride celebration in Toronto). Good to hear that the government is cracking down on them.

  24. 24.

    satby

    @Baud: people are telling that to Wilmers constant pleas for more money on FB, which is kind of amusing. Of course his true believers are still defending him, but the comments I saw were about 50/50 critical to fawning. Which sparks joy.
    And Move On’s poll had Wilmer third. ???

    @rikyrah: Good morning ?

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @debbie: Took a muddy fall in the garden, caught my arm on one of the cattle panels I use for bean trellises.

  37. 37.

    artem1s

    Amy Klobuchar — and AFAICT they’re not being snide or sneaky, she just seems like someone Tom Nichols and his friends could be comfortable with

    No chance. It’s their way of signaling that they think the GOP candidate can beat her and it will mean the candidate they REALLY REALLY fear won’t get the nomination (Warren/Harris).

  38. 38.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The only thing that will stop them is a bullet to the brain.

    Don’t be so dramatic! There is always double amputation.

    (Glad to hear about the stitches but it would be nice if that corner of the garden got a little less muddy.)

  40. 40.

    Spanky

    @Baud: Oh sure! Blame it on the innocent media!

    Speaking of which, the banner at the top of even-the-liberal WaPo:
    “Democratic divides on display”

  42. 42.

    Kay

    I’m supporting Warren but I don’t think she did well. I think she let Bernie push her Left on Medicare for all and she’s not comfortable with “getting rid of” private insurance- whatever that means- anyway she allowed the mod to frame it that way. I get it- she’s pulling supporters from Bernie, it’s a primary, but I want her to be more in control than that. I was impressed that she was running her own campaign her own way, I think that’s why it was working, but I didn’t get the sense that she’s as confident as I had hoped.
    The specifics on immigration with Castro was interesting. There isn’t time in a debate like that and we never get substantive debates on immigration so it would probably never happen, but the flip side of decriminalizing is the civil approach has fewer process protections. Now, that could be a good thing- the cases would move faster, it would be easier to process people, and obviously it changes the detention aspects in a way Castro wants, but I’m just not confident it would ever be covered or explained in a way that people would understand, see: Medicare for all means “getting rid of” private insurance, which I’m not sure it does.

  43. 43.

    opiejeanne

    @OzarkHillbilly: Oh no, not the thighs! I had that happen just once and nothing worked to relieve it. I think the agony lasted for more than an hour before it ended, and worse, we were in a motel at the time. when it ended there seemed to be no reason. I have the calf tense up sometimes and just getting out of bed and standing for a moment helps make it stop for me.

  44. 44.

    Immanentize

    @SRW1:

    the shit.

    Where I grew up, “the shit” means “the greatest thing ever.” As in, “That concert last night was the shit! Best 50 minute guitar solo evah!” But where you grew up it means really bad? I think a conversation between us might prove confusing.

  45. 45.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Immanentize:

    it would be nice if that corner of the garden got a little less muddy

    I agree but maybe you could discuss it with the rain gods for me? They sure as shit ain’t listening to me. (got another 1/2″ yesterday afternoon on top of the 4″ we got over the wkend)

  47. 47.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: I will talk to Drops and Pour, the two rain deities in my area to see if they can get a message to Deluge.

    Meanwhile, toddler woodchuck makes an appearance yesterday — now I have a whole family of grazers. Double fenced my two tomato plants. They already got some of the basil.

  49. 49.

    Another Scott

    Good morning. I missed the debate, but I’ll check the transcript later.

    DeLong this morning:

    I am hearing from a number of people that columns like this one and its ilk by Paul Krugman and our other compadres are bloodless, and ineffective. They do not convey any sense of what is happening.

    So let me make it more concrete:

    The top 0.01% of American workers—now some 15000—this year have incomes, including capital gains, of about 500 times the average. Typical incomes in America today, including capital gains and benefits, are perhaps 300 a working day. The gulf between them and average income is large: average income is about 800. Thus 15000 workers in the top 0.01% of income this year receive an average of 400,000 dollars a day.

    How could one go about spending that? Suppose you decided this morning that you wanted to rent the 2000 square-foot Ritz-Carlton suite at the Ritz-Carlton San Francisco hotel for the week of next Memorial Day, and did so. That would set you back 6000 for seven nights. You would still have to spend 394,000 more today to avoid getting richer: to avoid getting richer you would have to spend 16,667 an hour, awake and asleep, day in and day out.

    One way to think about the spending of these 15000 superrich is that they are, collectively, through their spending employing 7,500,000 who are dedicated to making them happier and advancing their purposes, whatever they may be. And a large proportion of them are bosses, partially constrained by their obligation to advance the purposes of the organizations they work for, but free to shape and interpret those purposes as they wish. Guess average is effectively the unconstrained boss of only 3 more: that makes 20,000,000 of us who are paid to directly and indirectly and who are thus are focused on advancing the top 0.01%’s particular and idiosyncratic purposes. Is that likely to be a healthy society?

    And then there are the rest of the top 0.1%—not 15,000 but 135,000 each on average one-ninth as well-off—who must spend and reinvest not 400,000 but 45,000 a day, but who are collectively of the same economic weight as the top 0.01%, and thus have another 20,000,000 of us working for them: paid to directly and indirectly and thus focused on advancing the top 0.1%’s particular and idiosyncratic purposes as well:

    […]

    It’s really important to put the Guilded Age Mk. II in perspective like this, to fight against the meme that “you can’t tax just the rich, there aren’t enough of them…” – yes, you can, and yes they really do have a huge amount of the national income and wealth. It’s bad for the US economy and more importantly it’s bad for society to have the so much money locked up by the rich (who don’t spend it on taxes and other productive things).

    There may be Constitutional or serious practical (as opposed to ‘OMG the rich are so clever and genius-like they’ll never pay any taxes so we can’t try!!11’) problems with Warren’s wealth tax, but something (in addition to inheritance taxes) needs to be done. Whether it’s transaction taxes or sales taxes on services or surcharges on $500M painting auctions or all of the above, I don’t know.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  50. 50.

    Kay

    So in civil v criminal one has to be careful because “decriminalizing” something is a term of art. It takes it out of criminal process and puts it into a different process. That can be a civil process or a quasi-civil process- juvenile process in the US is a kind of hybrid- but it doesn’t necessarily mean “less onerous” for the person involved in it. It just means “different”. It removes criminal charges, that is true, but it can also open up a whole new world where the person remains in the system navigating a special civil process that can be more onerous and lengthy than the criminal system. The devil is really in the details.

  51. 51.

    A Ghost To Most

    @Immanentize:

    Don’t be so dramatic! There is always double amputation.

    That didn’t stop the Black Knight.
    Nuke em from space, just to be sure.

  53. 53.

    opiejeanne

    @OzarkHillbilly: We saw some of the flooding that hasn’t cleared yet, in Osage City, MO which is now part of Jefferson City so the mapping app in my phone couldn’t find the place but I figured out that High Street way out on the peninsula was probably part of it so it took us there. The Osage was still in people’s houses, one of them on Water Street. Tiny fish in the flooded streets and tiny frogs everywhere.

    We have managed to dodge the rain on this trip by sheer luck.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I’ve recorded the debate. But I thought most of the immigration system was already civil in nature.

  55. 55.

    SRW1

    @Immanentize:

    Where I grew up shit was spelled as Scheisse. And there was not much irony involved in the use of the word. But now that you mention it, I remember youngerish folks in the US of A using it the way you point out.

  57. 57.

    Sab

    @Kay: I just got on Medicare this year, so I also bought Medicare supplemental (private, to pay for the 20% not covered) and Plan D (private, to pay for rx, also not covered.) Vastly less expensive than individual market for olds, but certainly not free.

  59. 59.

    LivinginExile

    @OzarkHillbilly: For what it’s worth, Pegisue had trouble for years with charlie. None of the home remedies helped. Finally found out blood flow to her legs was mostly blocked. No pulse at her right ankle little pulse at her left. A aorta bifemoral bypass helped Hugely. Still needs stents lower down, around her knees. Have you had blood flow to your ankles checked?

  60. 60.

    raven

    @Sab: I’m exploring it now for my September ejection date. I get a subsidy from work that pays for the supplement and “d” so I’m pretty lucky but it sure is complicated,

  62. 62.

    raven

    Rev AL

    “If you throw a brick in a pen of hogs the one that hollers is the one you hit”!

  63. 63.

    Immanentize

    @Kay:
    In immigration, the real horror is not the criminalization of the initial entry — that is very bad but it is a misdemeanor. It means immediate detention but also fairly immediate deportation. If you say you are seeking asylum as soon as you arrive, that is not criminal, but civil detention allowable under the immigration statutes.

    To me, the real awful part of crimigration (as we call it) is that if you have previously been charged and convicted of the misdemeanor entry (like a trespass), and then come back at any time in your life without papers — that re-entry is a felony. Right now they are conducting mass plea sessions in federal courts along the border for these misdemeanor entry without papers cases. Like a hundred plus at a time. And because the penalty is so small — minor misdemeanor — those pleas are all unrepresented, no lawyers. The point is to set up easy felonies in the future.

    So decriminalizing entry — making it a ticket like overtime parking, say, without criminal detention, would be easy to do and so very less inhuman. The people who come here for asylum are going into the civil immigration system anyway. Why add the criminal incarceration system onto it as well?

  64. 64.

    opiejeanne

    @OzarkHillbilly: I am so sorry to miss you. It’s probably too far for you to come but we are planning to have lunch in Defiance today, Defiantly. Going to see the Boone house built by his son; my mom was still carrying the family grudge against Dan’l for getting some of our family killed through what they considered to be reckless behavior.

  65. 65.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Me too, and it is, but what he was saying was that portion- the crossing- used to be civil (which I didn’t know) and he wants to go back to that. That makes a lot of sense! But you and I know they’re not going to just “go back”. They won’t just “take out” that portion. They’re going to draft an elaborate civil process which could be worse and could also get rid of the upside, which would be faster processing. Remember these people are THERE. They are physically present. They’re not submitting a petition from their homes. That means they have to stay somewhere while it’s processed.

  66. 66.

    Immanentize

    @SRW1: Ha! I will be in Deutschland for a few days next month. I will be careful about ironic uses.

  67. 67.

    sm*t cl*de

    Seems like there’s a Trump metaphor lurking in there somewhere…

    It’s not just molluscs and trump whose brain capacity is limited by Evolution’s decision to route a food tube through the middle. The same is true of most other invertebrates.

  68. 68.

    Immanentize

    @raven: That is no place to grow up….

    I was going to ask you when R Day was — but I see it is September. Good timing, you dont have to do the worst part of the semester (or is it all front end for you in the Center?)

  71. 71.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    That’s a good point and I’m familiar with the reentry felony. If that is what he’s trying to reach that makes sense. I thought it was great, BTW. To have an actual discussion of immigration. Good for him. I was impressed too- he’s smart as a whip. I love, love, love when they rephrase a fuzzy moderator question and he did that several times. It’s a correction. Klobachur did it with Todd with the gun buybacks. They should all do it. Make them state the premise correctly. Don’t answer a question that comes from a false premise.

  72. 72.

    gene108

    @Baud:

    Saw an ad on TV about how M4A will force everyone into the same plan, even if it didn’t cover everything you need, force 180 million people off private insurance, and unimaginably long waiting times.

    Getting rid of private health insurance is popular in some parts of the Left, but I wonder how it will play in MN, where United Healthcare is headquartered, for example.

  73. 73.

    Sab

    @raven: It takes months to get through their system, so don’t put it off. First call to first appointment was about three months. The actual interview process was (in my case) pretty effortless.

    Also, be careful to be covered everywhere. Friends of my parents retired to Florida with Ohio company supplementals (possibly Medicare advantage.) When she needed hip replaced, had to move home ( back in network) to Ohio.

    My husband has Medicare advantage because his issues (orthapedic with arthritis) tend to be expected, so we use the usual network of local doctors. My issues are cardiac and out of the blue, so I can’t risk travelling out of network.

  74. 74.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: I thought Castro was really good — but he should probably stop using statutory citations when he is talking about this stuff. It sounds a bit smarty pants to me and can be explained without it. I think he only does it because he really knows this stuff, but still….

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    making it a ticket like overtime parking,

    Right, which is how it’s always presented. But not how it has to be. Juvenile detention isn’t criminal. They plead “true” rather than “guilty”. It can still keep them in a court system or under court supervision from 16 to 21 and absolutely ruin their lives.

  77. 77.

    Baud

    @gene108:

    Right. Who really knows? There are legitimate policy issues and there are fake issues that Republicans can demonize.

    People hate private insurance, but that tells you nothing about their willingness to support its replacement.

  79. 79.

    burnspbesq

    Just a reminder: the Supremes are set to announce the outcomes in the term’s five remaining cases—including the partisan gerrymandering cases and the Census question case—beginning at 10:00 a.m. Eastern time today. As usual, SCOTUSBlog will be live-blogging.

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    @gene108: I believe the anti-M4A ad that ran during the debate was created by Partnership for America’s Health Care Future, a consortium of insurance and pharmaceutical companies, hospital corporations, the AMA, etc., i.e., everyone who has an interest in keeping the status quo — in which they make tons of money and we have shitty and/or no insurance — in place. There are serious policy questions to discuss and plenty of room for disagreement among reasonable people who want to see reform, but that outfit is all about scaremongering.

  84. 84.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: People hate private insurance, but that tells you nothing about their willingness to support its replacement.

    I think it’s less that people who oppose eliminating private insurance hate or love it, but it’s familiar, it’s there, they hope they’ll never need it for anything catastrophic, and they’ve got their lives arranged into some kind of stability, maybe comfort, and they don’t want anything to disturb that equilibrium. I was a little surprised to see Warren had gone all in on this after Harris had to backtrack on it.

  85. 85.

    Bruuuuce

    @Another Scott: Nitpicking because there’s actually some substance behind it. It’s the Gilded Age, not the Guilded Age. I wish it were the Guilded — as in heavily unionized — Age, as opposed to the renaissance of warlords and robber barons that was the Gilded (gold-plated) Age.

  86. 86.

    Immanentize

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    To me, the discussion about Medicare for All is really a statement that the Dems will work really hard to make health care better. Just like the Green New Deal is really only a statement that the Democrats really take climate change seriously. Very few people will vote on the minutiae of each candidate’s position — nor should they! Because that is where purity discriminations start.

    The legislative process is long and IMO a commitment to the basic idea is what people want to see.

  87. 87.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    so things got chippy on MSNBC last night? I’ve enjoyed Nicole Wallace in her pure and unrelenting trump hatred, but I often listen to her sounding more like she came from the Obama White House rather than Bush’s and make that confused dog head-tilt. And to the extent she brought Donnie Deutsch back to TV, that’s another ten demerits

    Charles P. Pierce @ CharlesPPierce
    It happened late last night so folks may have missed @ Lawrence’s bravura performance in the postgame. He called out Nicolle Wallace for soft-pedaling the nasty Bush campaign in 2004. And he called another banal analysis worthless.

    It was Donnie Deutsch.

  90. 90.

    Juju

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m sorry you go through that. I didn’t realize it was a chronic problem. I just suggested what usually works for me. I hope you have some better nights ahead.

  91. 91.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Immanentize: The legislative process is long and IMO a commitment to the basic idea is what people want to see.

    I agree, but there’s a loud slice of the party, one candidate, and a number of his followers who demand maximalist sloganeering that make it harder to sell those broad strokes and long term goals to the lumpenmittel whose votes we need to even get to incrementalism. As someone who’s been increasingly leaning Team Warren in recent weeks, I was sorry to see her take that approach.

    I couldn’t figure out how to do it, but somebody needs to remind Rose Twitter what a hard lift ObamaCare was when “we” had sixty votes (!), that “we” no longer do, and even getting back to fifty is a damn long shot, and that legislation is not passed by either righteous bellowing, youthful enthusiasm or Mitch McConnell looking out his window.

  92. 92.

    Cacti

    Warren effectively ended any chance she might have had at the White House by promising to take away private health insurance.

    Huge unforced error, and one that will be tied around her neck like an anchor if she gets the nom.

  93. 93.

    japa21

    @Immanentize: Except Green New Deal doesn’t really say anything bout how the sausage is to be made. Not a single candidate who uses the term Medicare for All means what they are saying. But people who listen only have what they know, Medicare, a reference. And Medicare for All, taken that way, would be horrible.

  96. 96.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Immanentize: When Pete B or Elizabeth Warren comes across as a smarty pants its a plus but when Obama or Castro are the smarty pants, its a problem. Why is that? Are only white people allowed to show their smarts in politics while the rest of us have to enact the stock characters that MSM has chosen for us.

  97. 97.

    Brachiator

    Nate Silver
    On a scale of 0 to 10, where 0 is the debate having no impact and 10 is a huge impact, I’d guess this was like a 2 or a 3.

    While he is useful as a pollster, I have no interest in his opinion as a pundit.

  100. 100.

    Another Scott

    @burnspbesq: Dare we hope??

    I assume not, based on the good guys and gals recently making comments about “… throwing out stare decisis…”

    :-/

    Fireworks start at 1000 EDT.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  103. 103.

    Brachiator

    @schrodingers_cat:

    When Pete B or Elizabeth Warren comes across as a smarty pants its a plus but when Obama or Castro are the smarty pants, its a problem. Why is that?

    Huh? Obama’s graceful intelligence sealed the deal for many voters. A combination of intelligence and empathy.

    I didn’t get a chance to watch much of the current debate or read reaction to it. Is Castro getting dissed?

    In the past, many Americans have been suspicious or dismissive of smart politicians. This is why there is BS like preferring the candidate you can have a beer with.

    And the dismissive slur of egghead was attached to white male Democratic Party candidate Adlai Stevenson.

    Bush, Trump, Reagan, loved by citizens who strongly prefer idiots.

  104. 104.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    E Jean Carroll’s corroborating witnesses have come forward, talked to the NYT, who are limiting the story to their podcast, no write-up on the website. No mention of it on MSNBC in the last half hour, very little mention on twitter.

    In a book excerpt published last week by New York Magazine, Elle advice columnist E. Jean Carroll wrote that President Donald Trump raped her in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room in the mid-’90s, and said that two acquaintances of hers — whom she confided in at the time — could corroborate her story. On Thursday, those two women were identified for the first time in an episode of the New York Times’ podcast, The Daily, for which they were interviewed alongside Carroll.
    The two women, Lisa Birnbach and Carol Martin, were, like Carroll, prominent personalities in New York media in the ’90s. Birnbach is a best-selling author who has written and contributed to numerous books, the most famous of them being The Official Preppy Handbook, first published in 1980. Martin was a news anchor for New York’s WCBS-TV from 1975 until 1995. The Times notes that both women also knew Trump around the time of the alleged assault. Birnbach had interviewed him at his Palm Beach club, Mar-a-Lago, for New York Magazine, while Martin had encountered him through the course of work and had a friend who dated him.

  106. 106.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Brachiator: I am speaking of the media not Democratic voters. Obama was characterized as professorial and aloof by the media and never given the credit for his smarts.

    ETA: As for Castro, I was responding to Imm’s comment as to how his insistence on a particular article in the immigration law made him look like a smarty pants and how that could be a negative.

  107. 107.

    dww44

    @raven: Having navigated all that a few years ago: Medicare, Supplemental, and Part D, it’s all pretty seamless now. We’ve found that dealing with the medical complex is way simpler. Most of our physician visits are totally covered. Very little out of pocket expense. Of course the supplemental premium is not terribly cheap, but it’s doable.

  109. 109.

    raven

    @Immanentize: My work doesn’t really follow any academic schedule since we and 26 institutions and they all have different semester dates. We’re in the planning stage for the fall now and I honestly don’t have a lot to do. We can’t begin to fill my position until I am gone so there won’t be any of that “training” my replacement. My official date isn’t until 10/1 but I have so much annual leave that I’ll take a month of it as soon as I am official for my last set of f/s football tickets (ewww, football)!

  110. 110.

    dww44

    @gene108: I’ve seen those ads and it bothers me that there’s no counterpoint from the left. Entitles like that behind that ad put the fear of god into every proposal to improve life from the progressive left and successfully turn it into a scary form of socialism. Also, too, like having a GOP person. Steven Moore, opining on CNBC this morning critiquing the Dem debate. There was absolutely no progressive person to weigh in. Sheesh.

    Everywhere I turn it’s conservative pundits opining on Democratic candidates and their ideas. It’s a miracle we ever win a public office, most especially a national one. I don’t seem to remember from 2016, when there were 15 GOP candidates, that only liberal pundits were invited on TV to critique their ideas. Of course, there weren’t many of the latter.

  111. 111.

    Brachiator

    @Another Scott:

    It’s really important to put the Guilded Age Mk. II in perspective like this,

    I hope it is just bad auto correct talking about the “Guilded Age.”

    to fight against the meme that “you can’t tax just the rich, there aren’t enough of them…” – yes, you can, and yes they really do have a huge amount of the national income and wealth. It’s bad for the US economy and more importantly it’s bad for society to have the so much money locked up by the rich (who don’t spend it on taxes and other productive things).

    Conservatives have a good point when they fight back against the idea that somehow “national income and wealth” belongs to the collective. And taxation is not the same thing as investing in the economy.

    Taxation is a useful and necessary tool. The trick is to use it wisely.

  112. 112.

    Ruckus

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Was having terrible leg cramps, one or sometimes both legs. Tried a folded up cover on my feet as I sleep as the muscles would stretch to the max on their own. It’s enough weight to keep them from getting started. All the potassium and other minerals that are supposed to help, didn’t. It might be some of the chemicals that we put in our bodies to ward off high BP and then heart attacks. But who knows. I never heard of people having this level of cramps decades ago. Stoicism? Or some sort of change in our lives from what used to be, other than just getting old?

  115. 115.

    Immanentize

    @schrodingers_cat: @Brachiator:
    It wasn’t because Castro was smart and thoughtful — that was the good part. It was repeated use of the term: Section 1325 that means nothing to anyone who isn’t very very deep into immigration law. It is a barrier to understanding, not an invitation.

  116. 116.

    Immanentize

    @raven: What a great season it will be for you. Get the tickets. Enjoy the games. And then on Monday don’t go to work.

  117. 117.

    Brachiator

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I am speaking of the media not Democratic voters. Obama was characterized as professorial and aloof by the media and never given the credit for his smarts.

    I seem to recall most of the media being charmed by Obama. The right wing tried to paint him as an aloof elitist, but this nonsense never stuck. Some in the media also tried to portray him as an empty rock star, while Hillary Clinton was the “woman of the people.”

    And oddly enough, in 2016, the haters tried to portray Hillary as the dour smarty pants.

    Appreciate the clarification about Castro.

  118. 118.

    Citizen Alan

    @gene108:

    Getting rid of private health insurance is popular in some parts of the Left,

    Yeah, mainly the cosplay Marxist wing of the party. I am still furious with people I know who supported Bernie because they honestly think that abolishing private insurance is more important than making sure everyone can afford health care.

  121. 121.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Major Major Major Major: Everybody from Tom Nichols to Charlie Pierce declared it game-changing moment that proved Beto is lighter than air (pretty sure other of those pundits used that lightweight phrasing). I’ve never thought Beto merited all the hype, especially as a national candidate, but that didn’t look like much more than a bog-standard primary debate squabble to me.

  123. 123.

    Brachiator

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Martin was a news anchor for New York’s WCBS-TV from 1975 until 1995. The Times notes that both women also knew Trump around the time of the alleged assault. Birnbach had interviewed him at his Palm Beach club, Mar-a-Lago, for New York Magazine, while Martin had encountered him through the course of work and had a friend who dated him.

    Part of the problem here is that a lot of people knew that Trump was a pig, but they accepted his behavior as part of his rich bad boy brashness. Some might claim that it was a different time. Now that they want to come clean, it’s too late. Trump’s base either don’t care or forgive him all his sins.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    @Major Major Major Major:

    The Narrative™ demanded that Beto would be taken down a notch during the debate, so they decided that this must be the moment.

    Who writes The Narrative? They need better editors.

    The “bro power move” is an interesting take on what went down.

  127. 127.

    Fair Economist

    @gene108: Bernie’s version of M4A is a wedge issue intended to split the left. Even if we could get a president committed to it elected (problematic with the millions who work in health care insurance now, as you point out), it will never pass the Senate. Manchin and Sinema will never vote for it. Bernie has to know this.

  129. 129.

    rikyrah

    @Ruckus:
    I have leg cramp pills- found it on Amazon. forgot the brand name
    Yellow mustard
    Gatorade
    Cuprum metallicum by Boiron (another leg cramp pill)

    Do you stay hydrated?

  131. 131.

    Another Scott

    @Fair Economist: Manchin might leave the Senate early and run for Governor. He’ll supposedly decide in the fall.

    We really, really need to take the Senate, and if Manchin goes that makes it that much more difficult.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  132. 132.

    Ruckus

    @rikyrah:
    Hydration is not the issue. Vitamins and minerals are not the issue. For me, the issue is unintentional movement issues. Part of the reason docs were looking at Parkinson’s. Whatever this is, at the end of the day it doesn’t met the criteria for that. My take is that as so many are having muscle issues, the cause probably lies with something the sufferers have in common. Like beta blockers, or some other type of med. For example it’s well known by docs that some meds cause less of certain vitamins absorption. It’s possible that a lot of the meds olds take have cramps as a side effect.

  133. 133.

    Central Planning

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    …other times a rubdown with alcohol…

    Who is doing the rubbing, and what alcohol are you drinking?

    ETA – My wife (and her mom) thinks putting a bar of soap under your bedsheet by the foot of the bed helps.

  134. 134.

    Emjayay

    @OzarkHillbilly: Take a bunch of magnesium in the evening. Probably won’t work but it’s all you can do. If you have a Vicodin or something like that lying around take that when cramping hits. Or a Valium. Or have a double martini. Or all three.

  135. 135.

    Emjayay

    @OzarkHillbilly: Take a bunch of magnesium in the evening. Probably won’t work but it’s all you can do. If you have a Vicodin or something like that lying around take that when cramping hits. Or a valium. Or make a double martini. Or all three.

  136. 136.

    Mohagan

    @Sab: Your first paragraph describes me exactly too. Being from N CA, I didn’t have much of an opinion on Ryan, and after the debate he can leave any time.

  137. 137.

    Mohagan

    @Sab: Me too. I knew getting on Medicare would be a great relief but the difference in the premiums was astounding. No wonder people want Medicare for all.

  138. 138.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Wallace didn’t bring back Donnie Deutsche. He has been a semi-regular on “Morning Joe” for a quite a while. And just recently he got his own show on Saturday night. That’s on the network suits.

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