Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

I really should read my own blog.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

“But what about the lurkers?”

All your base are belong to Tunch.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: Jimmy Carter Has No Hecks Left to Give

Open Thread: Jimmy Carter Has No Hecks Left to Give

by | 244 Comments

This post is in: , , , ,

Former President Carter is a Baptist gentleman of a certain age, so language. But he does have a standing bias against parasitic worms…

The current Oval Office Occupant, needless to say, treated these comments with his usual class and graciousness. Suck on it, Donnie, President Carter has a Nobel Peace Prize and *he* didn’t even have to go sucking up to the Swedes for it…

ETA:

Reader Interactions

244Comments

  2. 2.

    dmsilev

    go sucking up to the Swedes for it

    Or the Norwegians even, which might be more likely to work….

  4. 4.

    Ohio Mom

    As I understand it, all former presidents get periodic intelligence updates — we want to keep them in the loop in case whoever is tne current president wants their advice.

    So Carter may be privy to information that we don’t have. Which raises the question, Why the silence from all the rest of the former presidents’ club?

    How much of a constitutional crisis do we have to be in before anyone acts the slightest bit alarmed?

  5. 5.

    pat

    Remember when Carter put solar panels on the roof of the White House and Regan took them down?

    What if the world had responded then to the threat of human-caused global warming?
    History will not be kind.

  6. 6.

    JPL

    He’s right.
    Also trump called the signer of the peace treaty with Japan stupid. We have to protect them, and they don’t have to protect us. Do not fear though, trump is gonna fix it.
    Putin would love if those bases were closed.

  7. 7.

    HalfAssedHomesteader

    @Ohio Mom: Jeez McGeez! The prospect of Trump getting intelligence updates when he’s out of office. He won’t/can’t read them, of course, but that doesn’t mean he won’t sell them or blab about them on Fox.

  8. 8.

    cmorenc

    I wish Jimmy Carter wasn’t the best ex-President this country has ever had – what I mean by this is not that he isn’t due admiration for how he’s conducted himself post-Presidency, but rather that had his administration been more successful, and he not taken office at one of the most forbiddingly difficult set of circumstances for any president to have succeeded – we would never have suffered Ronald Reagan and his toxic RW GOP successors in the oval office.

    Often, I have wondered if this country would have been better off in the long run if Gerald Ford had pulled out a squeaker in the 1976 election, so a GOP president with a bumbling image would have been in office when stagflation and Iran hit the fan. We’d have likely had President Ted Kennedy in 1980 and some version of universal health care would have long ago been in place (and we would never have been afflicted by so many RW assholes like Scalia on SCOTUS).

  10. 10.

    HRA

    @Ohio Mom:
    It is understandable as to why Obama is being silent. Bill Clinton seems to my estimation also has a reason to not speak now. I have no clue about George Bush although is no secret that he does not like him.
    Kudos to President Carter and Walter Mondale!

  11. 11.

    Raoul

    In other area Republican Venality, Bret Stephens stepped in it again with his latest column, and the never-Trumpers (such as Max Boot) are having a fit that Bret is being called out.

    Sad!

  13. 13.

    JGabriel

    Susan Page via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    Former Vice President Walter Mondale on President Trump: “He’s got something deep in him that is detestable.” Cites “his rhetoric, his harshness, his divisiveness,” then adds: “Doctors tell me they think they recognize symptoms of psychological problems.” …

    I usually go with contemptible, but detestable works too.

  14. 14.

    Doug R

    @HalfAssedHomesteader:

    Jeez McGeez! The prospect of Trump getting intelligence updates when he’s out of office. He won’t/can’t read them, of course, but that doesn’t mean he won’t sell them or blab about them on Fox.

    One of the MANY reasons Nancy Pelosi wants him in prison.

  16. 16.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @HalfAssedHomesteader:

    The prospect of Trump getting intelligence updates when he’s out of office. He won’t/can’t read them, of course, but that doesn’t mean he won’t sell them or blab about them on Fox.

    But can he actually do that from prison?

  17. 17.

    lamh36

    @RadioFreeTom
    Well, Kamala Harris just went from one of my top choices to somewhere just above Williamson. If she’s the nominee, I’ll vote for her because I have no choice against Trump, but this is just bullshit.

    FUQ YOU TOM and the rest of the never Trumpers.

    Nichols is not a Democrat he is a never Chumper who just as soon throw every Dem under the bus if a “Republican” other than Chump came along. They want Dem in name only that they think they can get over onto their side by promising bipartisanship. Why should anyone listen to him?

    Nichols and the rest of the Never Trumpers including #JoeScar #AnaNavarro #MikeMurphy #SteveSchmidt and yes even #NicoleWallace DO NOT want a “strong” Dem to be the nom or win the Presidency. No they want a one termer, to clean up GOP mess and then lose to a “true Republican”‬

  18. 18.

    MattF

    @HalfAssedHomesteader: Supposing, for the sake of argument, that Trump will be an ex-president at liberty at some point in the future– I think any request to intel agencies that he be briefed on current matters will be returned with the suggestion he ought to perform an anatomically unlikely act of self-fertilization.

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I have just learned, from reading Alexander Nazaryan’s book “The Best People,” about Trump’s disastrous Cabinet and senior advisory picks, that there is actually a lobbyist — a LOBBYIST!! — who rejoices in the Dickens-perfect name of Rich Baggers. I am beside myself with mirth.

  21. 21.

    Cermet

    The orange fart cloud is a stain on our democracy that will always be there thanks to the uneducated whites that foolishly believed their ‘betters’ will aid them (lol) – history will judge us and not kindly;once more whites prove that they’d rather shoot themselves in the foot than cede any power. Once before we had a similar issue and only a terrible war force the privileged whites to cede their power to own fellow humans. We are faced with a similar issue – a select group of whites want to control all power and will do anything to hold onto that power. Meanwhile, the world burns both due to heating and the wars that this climate disaster will spawn. Once again, millions will die needlessly because a small group of whites wouldn’t cede even a small amount of power.

  23. 23.

    lamh36

    This is the Dem party…fuq never Trumpers and the rest of the RWNJ.

    We stand together…ain’t gonna let the birther shit that happened to PBO happen again!

    Even if they are doing it to look good. It’s STILL a great look for those who have spoken up.

    @Zohreen
    Presidential candidates
    @ewarren

    @CoryBooker

    @BetoORourke
    coming together- supporting
    @KamalaHarris
    after ugly attacks on her race – the latest one shared by the president’s son:

    https://twitter.com/Zohreen/status/1145089745409564672

    more names in subsequent tweets

    Fav Cory Booker…short and sweet “Kamala Harris doesn’t have SHIT to prove”

  25. 25.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @cmorenc: I like many at the time didn’t want Ted to run for president. Many of us were afraid It would set him up to be killed like his 2 older brothers had been.

    This was a very real fear for many of us at the time.

    BTW Ted spoke at my college in Houston during the 60 election, and I got a chance to hear him in person then.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    @HRA

    I have no clue about George Bush

    The whole being dead thing is somewhat of an impediment to communication.

  27. 27.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @lamh36:

    Fav Cory Booker…short and sweet “Kamala Harris doesn’t have SHIT to prove”

    ❤️?❤️?❤️ to Cory. Good for him.

  28. 28.

    debbie

    Former Vice President Walter Mondale on President Trump: “He’s got something deep in him that is detestable.”

    Very deep in him. Like Stalin’s Symbiant.

  32. 32.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Ohio Mom:

    As I understand it, all former presidents get periodic intelligence updates — we want to keep them in the loop in case whoever is tne current president wants their advice.

    So Carter may be privy to information that we don’t have…

    While this may be true, it’s just as likely a result of Carter’s extensive experience in overseeing fair and democratic elections and his work on human rights that’s driving his opinion. And given that he’s in his 90’s and has survived literal brain cancer, who can blame him for speaking truthfully here?

    And I mean, seriously, does any of us need intelligence briefings to see just how abominable and dangerous Trump is?

  34. 34.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Two things: She’s Jamaican so she’s not black, and she lied about being bused. Most, but not all, of the candidates have come to her defense in statements and tweets.

  37. 37.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    BTW Ted spoke at my college in Houston during the 60 election, and I got a chance to hear him in person then.

    In the fall of 1960 I was working in the book department of the flagship (State Street) Marshall Field & Co. in downtown Chicago. I have no idea why they chose that particular venue, but several Kennedy women came to visit one day for about 15 minutes. I know Eunice Kennedy Shriver was one of them, and I know Jacqueline Kennedy was not. Nor was Rose Kennedy. The others were among the numerous Kennedy sisters and sisters-in-law. It was whirlwind, crazy time.

  38. 38.

    JPL

    @cmorenc: Ford was the last republican president that I voted for.

    I should add first and last, because I sure as hell didn’t vote for Nixon

  47. 47.

    Baud

    @Ohio Mom:

    I understand that “issue.” I was more confused about why a so called never Trumper would put her down based on false information. That’s trumpian.

  52. 52.

    Matt McIrvin

    @lamh36: A never-Trumper Republican will vote for Harris above Trump, but hate everything about it? That’s EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT. Any better response from him would mean positions were being wasted.

  54. 54.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @lamh36: Truer words were never spoken. There’s a straight line from all of those you mentioned, and many more, to Trump. Why don’t they spend their time finding that elusive true blue principled conservative to primary Trump? Because there is no such thing as Trumpism…they created his “base” and destroyed any sense of shared purpose in this country with their policies.

  55. 55.

    Anne Laurie

    @Baud:

    So I don’t have to leave the boat, what’s this about?

    That colored lady had the nerve to plan what she’d do in advance in the debate! And what she did involved being mean to Nice Old Uncle Joe!

    Hand to goddess, I respect a lot of what Nichols says about other Republicans / white men generally. But, with the best will in the world, as “Democratic” as he really wants go in 2020 is Amy Klobuchar (who he assumes won’t be the nominee). He wants us to nominate a nice well-spoken white dude who’ll make Tom and his fellow not-totally-insane Republican friends feel comfy about voting for ‘the ideological enemy’. Just as Joe Biden defends the ‘comity’ of Southern segregationists, Tom is nostalgic for the ‘comity’ of Democrats like… Joe Biden.

  59. 59.

    germy

    This nitwit’s blog:

    God, how pathetic. Not only is her “I’m a victim of racism” spiel a total lie but she’d trying to profit off it. This was all planned in advance to make money.

    I dread the moment when some extremely white person (because who else?) at work will show up in this shirt and I’ll have to keep a straight face.

    https://clarissasblog.com/2019/06/28/neoliberal-progressivism/

    And here’s one of her commenters:

    For every black little girl like Harris who was bused out of a bad school district that couldn’t educate its children properly, there was a tit-for-tat little white girl whose parents had spent a fortune seeking a house in an upscale expensive neighborhood with excellent, safe schools, only to be ordered to get their child up at five o’clock in the morning so she could eat a quick breakfast before being put on a bus at 5:45, and then take a two-hour ride into gangland, where she would be bullied and threatened and denied the educational needs that her parents had worked so hard to earn for her.

    That was the dark side of busing — deliberately sacrificing one group of “privileged” children in order to provide equal opportunity to another “underprivileged” group. It was a wrong-headed social experiment in the 1970s, and the idea hasn’t improved with time.

    Biden was right to oppose busing — and still too stupid to adequately defend his position on it.

    What horrible, shitty people.

  60. 60.

    Anne Laurie

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I am just waiting for Jacobin or some leftie to attack her for not being the right kind of Indian.

    Too busy calling her ‘a cop’ and ‘an anchor baby’. Horseshoe theory is probably *the* theme of the 2020 campaign(s)…

  64. 64.

    Anne Laurie

    @Baud: To be honest, I’m expecting Harris to say something cruel to one of Nichol’s personal enemies on the right… and then he’ll discover a sneaking respect for her!

    Elderly white curmudgeons, how they work. And, yes, I speak from personal experience :)

  65. 65.

    Barbara

    @Anne Laurie: They are having difficulty with the idea that they have done much to push the country in a direction where they no longer have a comfortable perch. George Will is the same. I have felt mostly out of step politically my whole adult life, and it is really amazing to see these guys who think that whichever party is in power should be catering to them.

  69. 69.

    lamh36

    Question guys, does anyone know which candidate has the most former #NoDramaObama staffers on their campaign?

    Cause it can’t be Biden…their camp is leaking like a sieve….both Obama campaigns didn’t play that

  71. 71.

    pinacacci

    First President I could vote for, and I did, and I still love him. Truth-tellers are rare. The comments in the WaPo article are heartening.

  75. 75.

    Anne Laurie

    @Villago Delenda Est: As long as he actually votes for the Democrat in 2020 — and encourages his followers to do the same — I’m willing to let him piss & moan in advance.

    Nichol’s got an actual ideology, he’s not another Doubthat or But-My-FeeFees Bret Stephens (much less Erik of Infinite Erikness).

  76. 76.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Ian Sams @ IanSams
    “Trump has been less sure-footed about how he would take on Harris if she were to be his rival. And after her breakout performance in the debate on Thursday, Trump campaign aides and allies acknowledged that Harris could prove to be a vexing adversary

    Eli Stokols @ EliStokols
    While Trump said yesterday Harris got “too much credit” for her debate performance, some aides traveling with him (who all found time to watch the debate amid the G-20) said privately that she looked strong on stage.

    “too much credit”… she scared him

  77. 77.

    lamh36

    @Baud: The tweet from Nichols posted the t-shirt the Harris camp was selling of he as a little girl…then called it a “racially charged” attack against Biden.

    The other because there has been an uptick in bots and propaganda tweets and comments along with a re-tweet from Chump Jr, questioning Kamala Harris’ Blackness

  78. 78.

    jl

    @dmsilev: Well, at least the House GOPers who wanted Trump to get the peace prize knew enough to contact the Norwegian committee that makes the decision. I have to wonder how many Trumpsters sent a postcard to the Emperor, or Tsar, or Grand Vizier Pooh-Bah, or some such nonsense, of Sweden.

    Edit: though I do wonder why they would care about some prize of limousine liberal, snotty, commie socialist countries where their people suffer terribly under the yoke of mixed economy liberalism comminess.

  81. 81.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh36: My impression is the big guns are sitting this one out. The O’Bros sounded very sad for Biden, and also as if this is what they were expecting. I got an image in my mind of White House meetings where Joe started rambling about the 70s and eyes met and rolled.

  85. 85.

    mad citizen

    @Anne Laurie: I checked her website, and yes, there is a black t-shirt available with her childhood picture on it–no words, no reference to Uncle Joe. BFD. This makes me want to vote for her a thousand times more, so there is that. Suck it, Tom Nichols, whoever you are.

  87. 87.

    jl

    @Steeplejack: If the t-shirt shown in the pic is what the fuss is about, it is pretty weak tea. A cute pic of Harris as a kid on a t-shirt? That is standard campaign tweaking, and I think Biden deserves something harsher, actually. Hell, It’s so cute I’m thinking of buying one even though I am for Warren right now (though I did contribute to Harris because I think she should be in the race).

    But this is from this guy Nichols, who is some goofball lost-in-the-woods moderate GOPer, who concern trolls, consciously or unconsciously. Why even pay any attention to him?

    A real issue with me on Harris is her waffling on her health care plans. She’s supported single payer plans on high profile venues three times now, then backtracked a day or so later, claiming she didn’t quite understand the question right. She has to knock off that BS and talk straight on her policies.

    But, every candidate has their problems. Her name is on some good health care legislation. So she is still my second choice after Warren.

  88. 88.

    Ohio Mom

    @germy: I ended at Clarissa’s blog when she was on No More Mister Nice Guy’s blogroll, though I don’t visit her anymore (she is no longer on the blogroll so Mr. No More must have got tired of her too).

    She can be an interesting character because as adept as she is at mastering languages, she has yet to master anything about American culture. She’s eternally in her own bubble.

    And her commentators are equally at sea and the worst sort of echo chamber. Unless someone new joined the club, none of them could have possibly had had any direct experience with bussing.

  89. 89.

    mad citizen

    I happen to be reading Kamala’s book as I have time (on page 95). I’ll note the picture in question is in the first set of pics, (December 1971) with the caption “My favorite pleather jacket at age seven.”

    Candidates have to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Who knows, this could be her “HOPE” poster.

  91. 91.

    Brachiator

    So, I don’t think that Jimmy Carter is perfect, but I think that Jimmy Carter and President Obama are both fundamentally decent human beings.

    And yes, I will fight you if you don’t disagree.

    And damn, Trump looks like a fool trying to bash Carter. Trump is the definition of a one trick pony. Sad!

  92. 92.

    NotMax

    @mad citizen

    Someone unconnected with the campaign who is more skilled as regards Photoshop abilities than I needs to whip up an variant image, with a bold red circle with a slash through it over her picture and the following Biden quote from 1975, attributed in print thereon to him, a year in which Harris would have been in 5th or 6th grade.:

    “I’ve gotten to the point where I think our only recourse to eliminate busing may be a constitutional amendment.”

    citation

  93. 93.

    JimV

    I just want to say, not for the first time, that the two votes I cast for Carter were the two surest, happiest votes of my life. Although if I get a chance to vote for Warren there might be a new record.

  94. 94.

    mad citizen

    @jl: Was thinking out in the yard mowing a little grass after a 92 degree/150% humidity day (mercifully, the rain precipated out of the sky precipitously just now), policies and positions don’t matter that much. I wish all the D’s would point to the importance of electing their party, etc. Any of them can say what they want. All I want is a competent, dignified, intelligent liberal doing the job.

    A thunderstorm also just went through the outdoor shed area of the Dave Mathews concert tonight in Noblesville IN. I can’t think of a good joke here, am too tired.

  96. 96.

    jl

    @mad citizen: Beating Trump is the most important thing, i agree.
    However, next after beating Trump, good policies are very important, and clear thought on how to get them implemented is just as important.
    I think the sad fact is that standard center-right, and center-left policies, have just crapped out for enough people that a critical mass of them, will go do something stupid and vote for somebody like Trump. I think Obama will be remembered as a top 10 or 15 president, even apart from his status as first non-White president. But his experiment to go back to old days of comity and cooperation was not successful enough to prevent a toxic goofball like Trump getting elected.

    Even if 90 percent of 2016 Trump voters are die hard bigots, racists, xenophobes and general purpose haters, fact is the election was decided by less than 100,000 votes in three states. So paying attention to why that happened is important, and I think some of it is due to failed centrist policies that haven’t worked well enough for a lot of people.

    So, among those who show they know something about how to win election, I prioritize by policy. So, Warren, Harris my top two, they are OK on both scores.

  101. 101.

    NotMax

    @oatler.

    It’s nuts and bolts when it comes to campaigning.

    As opposed to Dolt 45’s campaigning, which is just completely nuts.

  102. 102.

    The Pale Scot

    @SFBayAreaGal:
    Either that guy diving in knows of a specific hole in the bottom of the cement pond or his chest and head are filled with helium and he just floats down like a ray guy punt. I can’t see how he doesn’t get hurt

  104. 104.

    TS (the original)

    @Baud:

    I’m not even completely sure that’s accurate.

    Thank you for making me smile against the background of trump obliterating the world in which I live.

  106. 106.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Credit where it’s due…

    Bernie Sanders @ BernieSanders
    Donald Trump Jr. is a racist too. Shocker.

  107. 107.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Yes he is. Indians are divided by language, caste, and religion. The fractures go deeper because they are a lot older than the ones in America.
    To most Americans we are an indistinguishable blob. But even I who has spent more time in the United States than in India can tell you a lot about where a person is from based on their name.

  108. 108.

    debbie

    @Steeplejack:

    Wow. I’d assumed there was a quote or something. If a simple photograph of a small child of color upsets Biden, I guess he was closer to his segregationist friends than he’s let on. //

  110. 110.

    jl

    @Baud: If commenters are talking about the infamous Harris t-shirt and the Biden website. I agree the former is BS from a sad moderate GOPer concern troll. And given that some of Nichols’ tweets are obviously false, perhaps a malicious concern troll, the type who maybe really prefers to keep ultra toxic and dangerous GOPers in power and hope for the best while self-righteously and weakly complaining about it, rather that submit to Democratic tyranny. Harris has gone out of her way to NOT accuse Biden of racism, but of being very wrong on this specific issue. Nothing wrong with that. It is Nichols (GOPer) smearing Harris.

    And the fraudulent Biden website, that is, as far as we know so far, domestic political dirty tricks that have been around since forever.

    The vast majority of the Democratic candidates have gone out of their way to not cut and smear each other, except for a couple of very minor dudes who felt they needed to resort to smears, which didn’t work, and who will disappear soon. And the blandly vile Schultz, who has disappeared himself for the time being.

  111. 111.

    Brachiator

    @jl:

    So paying attention to why that happened is important, and I think some of it is due to failed centrist policies that haven’t worked well enough for a lot of people.

    I hear you, but I keep wondering what these magical progressive policies might be which are going to save America. I probably am very lefty when it comes to social policy, but am hard headed and utilitarian when it comes to economic policy, and I suppose more centrist than anything else if I had to be placed in an ideological box.

  112. 112.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @JPL: @Adam L Silverman: Also trump called the signer of the peace treaty with Japan stupid. We have to protect them, and they don’t have to protect us. Do not fear though, trump is gonna fix it.

    This happened? I’ve seen the needy tweets he’s been sending KJU. It feels like the wheels are falling off at an even greater speed than usual on this trip. The Mueller news really got to him

  114. 114.

    NotMax

    @debbie

    While I applaud Carter, have a nagging trepidation that his suddenly popping up on Dolt 45’s radar will push that one into a reckless incursion involving Iran, to ‘prove’ he’s ‘the best ever,’ as contrasted with the ill-fated operation in Iran during Carter’s presidency.

  118. 118.

    James E Powell

    @jl:

    So paying attention to why that happened is important, and I think some of it is due to failed centrist policies that haven’t worked well enough for a lot of people.

    Yes, we should pay attention to why that happened.

    What are these failed centrist policies? Will the Republicans be moving to the left on these policy areas? If not, why would the failed centrist policies cause anyone to vote Republican?

    And who are the people for whom these policies have not worked well enough? Did they vote Republican? Did they do so because of the failed centrist policies or was there some other reason?

    Did the NYT carry on its smear campaign against Hillary Clinton because of failed centrist policies? Did Comey write his letter because of his frustration with failed centrist policies?

    Please, help me to learn.

  119. 119.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @JimV:

    After several shameful years of voting for Republican candidates, I voted for Jimmy Carter in both the 1976 and 1980 general elections, and at least one primary.

  120. 120.

    NotMax

    @debbie

    Brain intended to write “goad.” Fingers typed “push.” Were edit available, would alter it to match intention.

  121. 121.

    Jay

    Andy Ngo is an editor at @Quillette, which just reprinted a discredited hoax about journalists being secret antifascists.It inspired an Atomwaffen affiliate to release a kill list of journalists.You might wanna rethink that support for Andy Ngo, @jaketapper. https://t.co/OMYHPAo5fA— AntiFash Gordon (@AntiFashGordon) June 29, 2019

    Andy Ngo got milkshaked today while attending a Nazi anti-Pride Rally. Pearl Clutchers are Clutching Pearls.

  122. 122.

    jl

    @Brachiator: ” but am hard headed and utilitarian when it comes to economic policy, ”

    We disagree. Many of Warren’s and Harris’ policy proposals are not ultra-lefty at all. If you think they are, then you need to go read up on comparative economic systems and their performance around the world among high income industrialized countries, from Europe, to East Asia to Australia and New Zealand. Including that very scary undemocratic socialist commie country full of oppressed serfs forced to work at very highly paid jobs with much less income inequality than the US, Switzerland.

    If you mean that the US pubic perceives the polices as ultra-lefty, then it is a matter of making your case. Too many Democrats are afraid of making their case, and condemn themselves thereby to live as perpetual losers. IMHO. If you believe something, but are afraid to even argue your case, then you will usually lose in swaying public opinion.

  123. 123.

    bupalos

    Jackals help me out here. I’m up for some 4th of July activism and I’m trying to figure out how and what

    Background: My little (mostly liberal) college town set in the midst of Ohio Trump-country has a cutesy 4th of july thing every year that I’m pretty attached to. It really never has any actual American values attached to it, and it’s billed as “old fashioned” which has always made me slightly uncomfortable. Every year we put together a community band, on the level where it’s hard to actually fill out all the parts. Anyway, the band director is kind of a Trumper, on the DL, and this year he’s selected as the penultimate number, right before the national anthem, the “America First” march. He’s a professional music historian that goes into long perorations on most of the numbers we play, and it’s possible that he’s going to half-redeem the choice with what he says, but I really doubt it. I think he’s just doing a little subconscious or maybe overt “see, this Trump thing isn’t new, it’s a totally respectable stance” kind of thing.

    Anyway, if that’s how it goes I want to be ready with a some kind of stunt to communicate to the audience what’s going on here and what the feelings of the band are. I mean, I could just try to recruit some compatriots to utterly monkey wrench the song, but that seems musically unethical. But I’d do like a leaflet drop of dead immigrant kids, or… I don’t know what. Open to suggestions.

    I’ll document it.

  124. 124.

    Michael Mackness

    @pat: History won’t be kind to Saint Ronnie? Oh, nooo, say it isn’t so! /s

    When I first read about this, I thought Ronnie Raygun was simply trying to demonstrate that he was a bigger asshole than his carefully curated image portrayed him.

  125. 125.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    So I don’t have to leave the boat, what’s this about?

    Kamala is half Jamaican and half South-Asian Indian, therefore she cannot possibly know what it’s like to be the descendant of slaves.

    Like any white cop is going to ask her to show her Indian or Caribbean bona fides when they pull her over for DRIVING WHILE BLACK.

  126. 126.

    bupalos

    @jl:

    If you mean that the US pubic

    In light of the 25% of the electorate that voted for The Scumsucking Pig, I’ll allow it.

  127. 127.

    jl

    @James E Powell:

    OK, I’m game.

    1) Financial policy in wake of Great Recession was too centrist in that it followed course of rescuing specific banks, rather than banking sector, and not favorable enough to ordinary people who lost a lot of asset value in their homes. Economists from libertarian leaning Vernon L Smith to progressive Stiglitz advocated for policies modeled on Great Depression HOLC, but that was shot down by centrists like Geithner.

    2) PPACA health care reform was too centrist in that was too deferential to belief that under regulated financial markets (in this case insurance markets) were stable. The PPACA provided great improvement in access to health care, but not enough on burden of cost of care for the sick.

    3) International trade policy has been too biased towards favorable treatment of financial industry, leading to severe and sudden job losses in areas around the country.

    4) Number 3) was tied to high dollar policy which devastated terms of trade for US, except for financial industry.

    Now, 1) 2) and 4) were policies that were followed consistently through Dem and GOP administrations and backed by the technocrats in a bipartisan fashion, so I think OK to call them center-right and center-left policies.

  128. 128.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m not sure he tweeted it, but from the reporting he’s been complaining about the treaty, including in an interview en route to Japan for the G20, and suggesting he may withdraw from it because it obligates the US to defend Japan, but Japan doesn’t have to defend the US. Also, the Japanese are stealing from us in regard to US basing and joint multinational military operations with them. Which, of course, isn’t true. Part of his complaining is bitching that whomever negotiated and agreed to the treaty with Japan was an idiot. It was negotiated during the Truman administration when Eisenhower was in the process of going from Supreme Allied Commander to retired and signed by Eisenhower and then ratified by the Senate.

  135. 135.

    rattlemullet

    T-rump would have to stand on his momma shoulders to be able to kiss Jimmy Carters ass.

  136. 136.

    Jeffro

    @Raoul: Yeah and Tom Nichols (I think that’s his first name) was having a fit on Twitter earlier today because someone was being called racist (trumpov jr?) for questioning Harris’ blackness.

    These #NeverTrumpers suck* and can’t be trusted. You’re either 110% telling people to vote Dem all the way down the ticket, or you just don’t really mean it, NTs.

    *Rubin excepted…for now

    ETA I see someone already noted this a whopping 5 comments later…I really need to read the whole thread before jumping in!

  138. 138.

    plato

    From Jimmy Carter to closet racist raygun.

    From Barack Obama to rapist racist totus thug.

    From Classy to trashy.

    Just like that. Sigh.

  139. 139.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: Almost all the Africans that wound up in the Caribbean were there because they were slaves brought there to work the sugar cane plantations.

  141. 141.

    Jay

    @bupalos:

    Leaflet/poster the crowd with the American Nazi Party roots of the song.

    Get the band to play and sing the Horst Wessel instead.

    Get some heroic WWII Vets to take the stage, grab the mikes and point out that back in their day, “we fought Nazis”, we didn’t play their music or embrace their ideas.

  145. 145.

    Jay

    Allsup was the most successful member of a plan that was shared across Identity Evropa discussion forums to infiltrate the GOP and use it for their own revolutionary ends. In chat records from Discord, a gaming chat platform popular among the Alt Right, which were leaked by the media collective Unicorn Riot this March, more than 800 members on the Identity Evropa Discord server openly discussed strategies to infiltrate the Republican Party, despite their fundamental disagreement with its platform.

    “The GOP is essentially the White man’s party at this point (it gets Whiter every election cycle), so it makes far more sense for us to subvert it than to create our own party,” argued Identity Evropa leader Patrick Casey, writing under the pseudonym “Steven Bennett,” and discussing his plans to get involved in his own county’s party infrastructure.6

    http://www.politicalresearch.org/2019/06/20/all-you-have-to-do-is-show-up-how-white-nationalists-are-infiltrating-the-gop/#sthash.Mnq8h0wc.dpbs

  148. 148.

    James E Powell

    @jl:

    Policies aren’t failed policies just because you disagreed with them. But let’s concede they failed.

    Now answer the rest of my questions.

    Explain how failed centrist policies that didn’t go far enough caused people to vote for a RW racist misogynist billionaire whose party has never done a thing for people who aren’t rich.

  151. 151.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @germy: I’ve read Clarissas blog years ago. I refuse to give her a view. She’s just a horrible racist pig. I found myself looking at a twitfeed of some idiot(followed her from a comment she made about Harris)where all her tweets were pointing to Megan Markle being a Brit version of a royal welfare queen and clearly wondering whether the baby was going to look “black.” I don’t even…how do these people live in this current world? Do they look around for a white only neighborhood to live in? How do they go for healthcare where you’re highly likely to run into an Asian provider. How do they go to the airport where they can’t avoid non white people?

  155. 155.

    NotMax

    @Baud

    Bring on the stuff that creeps in on little cat feet. From 2017:

    Before the US president arrived in South Korea, officials had said he would not visit the demilitarised zone, because it was a cliché.
    ‘It’s a cliche’:

    However, that plan changed on Wednesday morning, when pool reporters covering his visit were summoned earlier than expected and told by White House press secretary Sarah Sanders that they were going to to the border zone.

    Reporters joined the president’s motorcade just after 7am and headed for Yongsan Garrison, where they boarded Chinook helicopters bound for the DMZ. However, the trip was called off while the helicopters were in the air due to heavy fog. Source

  156. 156.

    lamh36

    It’s a work weekend for me, so it’s likely an early bed time for me, but until then, I’m watching James Bond’s #YouOnlyLiveTwice, which I’ve never actually seen.

    Goodness, but this shit is a wee bit racist AF.

    Wasn’t even 15 min in and ole James after sleeping w/the lovely Asian lady…

    “why do Asian girls taste different than English girls?”

    DAFUQ.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/98c2b53cb57e0a643fb80b5b6ea1e66619de4646476a9534b0db0043b4e07820.gif

    Course this means, I GOTTA watcht the ENTIRE movie now. Oh and of course tweet about it (at my “burner” acct since my OG acct is still suspended for now…ugh)… burner account: @Nell3776

  158. 158.

    Raoul

    @Anne Laurie: If guys like Tom spent half as much time working on other Republican voters as he does trying to influence Democrats, I’d respect that he’s trying to actually make change.

    And his broad analysis, that GOP voters have to punish their party at the polls for nominating such trash as Trump or Steve King or Duncan Hunter is correct.

    But he has plenty of excess time to trash-talk Democrats. So I’m not that interested.

    (He is also strangely obsessed with people taking their shoes off on airplanes)

  162. 162.

    Doug R

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I am just waiting for Jacobin or some leftie to attack her for not being the right kind of Indian.

    My comment in a previous thread:

    Someone probably told him Kamala’s “Indian” so he’s pretty sure she’s born here, he’s just trying to think of another indigenous name besides “Pocahontas”.
    I guess we’re lucky the dollar coin is so unpopular.

  164. 164.

    Ohio Mom

    @bupalos: Whatever you do, wear red, white and blue, carry a flag — make sure you look patriotic.

    Those righties do not own patriotism, and too many think that to criticize this country is to disassociate oneself from it.

    Leave no question in any viewer’s mind that you act out of love for our country.

  167. 167.

    The Dangerman

    Maybe I’m missing something, but Trump is calling next weekend a “Salute To America” on the 4th? How imaginative. I bet they might come up with something really new like fireworks and bands playing patriotic music and maybe even hot dogs and apple pie. What would we have done without Trump’s clearly superior imagination?

  168. 168.

    jl

    @James E Powell:

    ” Policies aren’t failed policies just because you disagreed with them. ”

    Well, the financial policy failed in that it left a lot of ordinary people, particularly racial and ethnic minorities, and working class people of all types, with a large asset loss after the Great Recession when they didn’t need to suffer one. If you want to win elections, you don’t want a bunch of angry people with problems with housing that didn’t need to occur. And I cal that a failure.

    I’m not answering the rest of your stupid tendentious questions. I suspected you made your comment in bad faith, and looks like I was right.
    So, good day sir. I’ll let the other commenters decide who has the best argument.

  169. 169.

    NotMax

    @Raoul

    (He is also strangely obsessed with people taking their shoes off on airplanes)

    Whose shoes does he prefer they take off?

    ;)

  171. 171.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Adam L Silverman: that’s what I remember from world history and the stuff we covered about the slave trade. Funny how none of this origins of african Americans didn’t matter till Obama. Up to then, one drop of black blood meant you were blackity blackity black.

  173. 173.

    NotMax

    @Doug R

    I guess we’re lucky the dollar coin is so unpopular.

    On the contrary, as he recognizes only money with representations of white men as legal tender, let him call her Eisenhower.

    :)

  174. 174.

    debbie

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    I follow the Royal Family on Facebook. It’s mostly just them attending events, etc. It never fails that comments turn racist when Meghan’s photographed, and it usually comes from Americans. “She’s taking attention away from the Queen, with that fat stomach of hers.”

  175. 175.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Raoul:

    (He is also strangely obsessed with people taking their shoes off on airplanes)

    Who does this? Anyone who flies more than once a year has PreCheck.

  176. 176.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Anne Laurie:

    He wants us to nominate a nice well-spoken white dude who’ll make Tom and his fellow not-totally-insane Republican friends feel comfy about voting for ‘the ideological enemy’.

    This white dude thinks Tom can fuck all the way off.

  177. 177.

    Another Scott

    In other news, Reuters:

    TRIPOLI (Reuters) – Forces allied to Libya’s internationally recognized government based in Tripoli captured sophisticated U.S. and Chinese rockets as well as drones when they seized a town from eastern forces last week, officials said on Saturday.

    [ image ]

    On Wednesday, Tripoli’s forces took Gharyan, south of the capital, which eastern forces loyal to Khalifa Haftar had used as their main supply base to attack Tripoli, home to the recognized administration.

    Officials showed journalists weapons they said had been seized, among them sophisticated U.S.-made Javelin anti-tank missiles.

    They also presented advanced Chinese-made laser-guided artillery shells, and said combat drones had been also been captured, in addition to some 150 prisoners.

    Inscriptions on the Javelin missiles said they had originally belonged to the armed forces of the United Arab Emirates, one of Haftar’s main backers.

    U.N. reports have previously said that the UAE and Egypt have been arming Haftar’s Libya National Army (LNA) since 2014, but details have been unclear.

    Oded Berkowitz, Israeli security analyst and deputy chief intelligence officer of the MAX consultancy, said it was the first time that Javelins had been sighted in the Libya conflict.

    “The weapons themselves are highly advanced but wouldn’t be a game changer in Libya,” he said. “The real political game changer is the fact that advanced U.S. systems were delivered to a third party, and this may push the U.S. to oppose the UAE and their support for the LNA.”

    Haftar began his assault on Tripoli on April 4, surprising the United Nations, which had been preparing for a national conference to try to end the chaos gripping Libya since the fall of Muammar Gaddafi in 2011.

    The offensive by the LNA, which is allied to a parallel administration in the east, has not made it beyond the southern suburbs of Tripoli.

    Turkey has supplied Tripoli’s forces with drones and other military equipment, according to diplomats.

    So either the UAE is sending American arms to Haftar behind our back, or the US is supporting the internationally recognized Libyan government while at the same time supporting a guy who is trying to overthrow it. Or maybe both, since we don’t have a Secretary of Defense…

    Neither one look good.

    What else like this is going on, and more importantly, what blowback will there be?

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  182. 182.

    NotMax

    So hot here today the gel stuff I occasionally put out for insect control has completely liquefied.

  184. 184.

    Mike in NC

    @The Dangerman: Ivanka will be coronated as “Trump Approved Perfect American” and handed a giant bouquet or roses and a $5 million check from the US Treasury.

  185. 185.

    NotMax

    @Steve in the ATL

    What do you have against 90+% of the people in Hawaii*? I wear sandals aboard a plane because my feet and ankles tend to sorely swell up when in socks and sneakers or shoes for any prolonged period of time.

    (*Locally, “slippahs,” not flip-lflops.)

  186. 186.

    pat

    @Michael Mackness:

    I’m picking up on the thread a couple of hours late.
    History will not be kind to the US and the reprehensible science deniers (republicans) that we elected over the years when we should (and could) have been doing something about climate change.

  190. 190.

    Anathema Device

    @jl:

    the election was decided by less than 100,000 votes in three states. So paying attention to why that happened is important, and I think some of it is due to failed centrist policies that haven’t worked well enough for a lot of people.

    See, from where I’m standing in the Antipodes, it looked like Hillary and the Dems had good enough policies to give her a 3 million vote surplus, and only very specific ratfucking and targetted dirty tricks got Trump those EC votes in what is already an undemocratic EC.

    Policies weren’t to blame. Russia/Wikileaks/your media, vote suppression and the stupid EC were. So why throw out good policies when rotten structural issues are the problem?

  193. 193.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh36: From the replies

    Stephen Leahy @ StephenLeahy
    All New Brunswick english newspapers are owned by billionaire James K Irving. The Irving’s are eastern Canada’s version of the #KochBrothers

    kalbzayn @ kalbzayn
    Somehow becoming the first person fired because of the deaths.

    so…. what business does the Irving family have with/around the federal government?

  202. 202.

    Ohio Mom

    @lamh36: Not saying anyone should have been fired, but isn’t there also an editor who approved tne cartoon who is also responsible? But that is what newspapers are, the fiefdoms of the owners. If they do any real reporting, it’s despite that.

    The cartoon is everything an editorial cartoon should be, really a masterpiece.

  204. 204.

    CaseyL

    @Steeplejack: I think it’s a regional thing. I grew up in the NE calling them “thongs” (and, boy, was I confused the first time I heard “thong” for panties!*) and “flip-flops”; and I think I first heard “zories” when we moved to Miami Beach. Out West it’s “flip-flops,” always.

    *I think both are named for the little strap thingie that goes between your toes – if we’re talking about the footwear; or your butt cheeks – if we’re talking about the undies.

  205. 205.

    J R in WV

    @JGabriel:

    “He’s got something deep in him that is detestable.”

    I usually go with contemptible, but detestable works too.

    Don’t forget despicable, a fine word for Trump!

  208. 208.

    lamh36

    THIS….exactly this!

    Be Prepared ain’t just some song from the Lion King (BTW…I’m so mad they won’t have a version of Be Prepared in the LIVE action Lion King remake!!! Arguably the BEST song on the darn soundtrack…tah)

    @DanaHoule
    ·
    7m
    Replying to
    @gregpinelo
    Biden supporters should be less concerned about Harris’ preparation for the debate & more concerned about Biden’s preparation for the debate.

  210. 210.

    plato

    Genuine question: why? Why? Does anyone know?

    No other world leader has brought a child and/or adviser to stand with them in this picture – not even the dictators from ‘the third world’ (!)

    So why Ivanka??

    https://t.co/uD4iei7fj8— Mehdi Hasan (@mehdirhasan) June 29, 2019

  211. 211.

    Another Scott

    @Ohio Mom: As I skimmed the comments, the paper didn’t run the cartoon, he posted it on a personal thing (Twitter, blog, something) and was canned for it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  212. 212.

    J R in WV

    @Baud:

    @debbie:

    The lie about being bused was a lie though.

    Not according to the school district where she went to school back in the day. Racists are lying about integration in Berkley. Big surprise!

  214. 214.

    Amir Khalid

    I woke up this morning and found Germany were knocked out of die Frauenweltmeisterschaft after being upset 2-1 by Sweden. Schade.

  215. 215.

    Steeplejack

    @CaseyL:

    I think I heard “zoris” because as an Air Force brat I was around people who had been stationed in Hawaii, the Pacific and Japan. And we lived on Okinawa for three years in the late ’60s. Heard “thongs,” too, and later “flipflops.”

  217. 217.

    plato

    We must stop saying Southern states are red states. They are voter suppression, racially gerrymandered states where the demographics now provide a path to change if we build a movement & mobilize. If this wasn’t true extremists wouldn’t be fighting & cheating so hard.— Rev. Dr. William J. Barber II (@RevDrBarber) June 27, 2019

  218. 218.

    Ruckus

    @germy:

    What horrible, shitty people.

    Why so understated?
    Don’t you know that they are afraid that the blackness rubs off, that if their kids met and get schooled with black kids, they will be fine with them and then all their racism will be for naught?

  220. 220.

    Steve in the ATL

    @plato: seriously? We all know exactly why.

    That doesn’t make ok, of course—not at all. But we know why.

  221. 221.

    Steeplejack

    @plato:

    I liked the comment: “She’s his emotional support animal.”

    Also: “I didn’t realize it was Bring Your Daughter to Work Day.”

  223. 223.

    J R in WV

    @Jay:

    Milkshaked? Should have been gasoline!

    Anyone who needs to keep their anti fascist leaning secret isn’t anti-fascist enough for moral people!!

  227. 227.

    J R in WV

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    How do they go to the airport where they can’t avoid non white people?

    Private Jet? Then the non white people (if any) will be servers, pilots, etc.

  228. 228.

    Wapiti

    @James E Powell: When I was growing up in California (SF East Bay area) we called them zories. That was a while ago, and I think It might have changed as people got culturally aware.

  229. 229.

    sukabi

    @lamh36: person over at Eschaton says the cartoonist is a freelancer, and he knows him. That it might be a contract not being renewed…that he’s going to talk to the cartoonist and see what the actual deal is. He speculated that the newspaper that dropped him may have run out of $$ to pay.

  233. 233.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @chris: Did she even make anything? My understanding was she just marketed other people’s stuff.

    In any case, it’s fucking embarrassing to see that unemployable clown representing the United States. I can think of two reasons she’d be there. I’d like to think it’s to keep an eye on him because he’s losing it and the Mueller report has him more erratic and moody than usual, but I suspect it’s that her sense of entitlement is so extreme she thinks she belongs there. There are rumors they see her as a future presidential candidate and I wouldn’t be surprised if she and daddy are that deluded

  236. 236.

    bupalos

    @NotMax: Might be a little equivocal. I mean, someone might interpret that as “see, even (the good) immigrants know that “America First!” is a great sentiment!”

    I’m thinking more along the lines of pictures of dead bodies. But maybe I need to dial down.

  238. 238.

    GideonAB

    @JimFoolish
    Given recent history, I would not rule out her winning the presidency at some time

  240. 240.

    joel hanes

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I do three or four round-trips between California and Minneapolis-St.Paul each year.
    I get precheck kinda randomly, but not more than once a year, and usually not both the outbound and return flights.

  242. 242.

    pluky

    @SiubhanDuinne: The Africans that ended up in Jamaica weren’t there for a stay in an all-included resort complex. A fairly good approximation of hell on earth was life as a slave on a Caribbean sugar plantation.

Comments are closed.