Josh Marshall coined the phrase “dignity wraith” to describe establishment conservatives who exchanged whatever meager principles, decency, independence, credibility, etc., they possessed to align with Trump. The theory is these folks believe they’ll be able to advance their personal agenda by signing on with the vulgar conman, whom they flatter themselves they can easily control. But they soon find it’s all a dominance game with Trump. Chris Christie was an early victim.
Trump is a fool and a knave, but he understands primate dominance hierarchies at least as well as an average orangutan, so he follows the instinct to humiliate any presumptuous silverback who strategically submits to his will. Michelle Goldberg in the NYT identifies the latest victim:
Say this for Donald Trump. He may be transforming American politics into a kleptocratic fascist reality show and turning our once-great country into a global laughingstock, but at least he’s humiliating John Bolton in the process…
It’s nightmarish to live in a country where our foreign policy has been reduced to an intramural battle between Fox News reactionaries. And there’s still a danger that Bolton could outmaneuver the isolationists. But right now there is a thin, bitter consolation in knowing that he, like so many others who’ve worked for Trump, sacrificed his principles for power and will likely end up with neither.
Goldberg points out that under Trump, Bolton has thus far been thwarted in pursuing every single war he enthusiastically monged for two decades. After calling for preemptive strikes on North Korea just last year, Bolton was dispatched to Mongolia this weekend while bland-faced Javanka met with Kim Jong Un and Tucker Carlson provided justification for American rapprochement. That had to sting a bit.
I’m too old and cynical to hope that Trump will manage to transform the entire Reagan-Bush neocon-reactionary Axis of Hubris into a heap of desiccated husks that will trouble us no more. As that crew demonstrated by reclaiming their sinecures after lying us into a ruinous, deadly and pointless war, a combination of personal shamelessness and media credulity is remarkably restorative.
Moreover, it looks like some potential dignity wraiths escape their just fate, managing to tick off items on their agenda and then ducking out before being fully slimed by Trump. (I’m thinking of Don McGahn and Nikki Haley here.) The jury is still out on their fates, IMO, and much depends on how disastrously this catastrophic presidency ends.
But I’ll take my “thin, bitter consolation” where I can these days. Open thread.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’d actually add Christie to this list. They’re both playing a game of supporting trump– never criticizing him, sometimes the people around him– while keeping enough distance to avoid the taint, They’re both looking at 2024, IMHO.
Eric U.
Thanks, Betty, this is just the post I needed this morning.
feebog
Objection your, honor, assumes facts not in evidence. You need to lay foundation that Bolton ever had any principles.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You could be right — Kushner’s kicking him to the curb before he could actually join the administration may turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to Christie. Romney took a similar escape route, though I don’t think he’ll make another run at the presidency. He’s probably trying to tee it up for Ticc or Tapp.
ETA: McGahn is the clearest winner here, IMO. He managed to radicalize the federal bench for the foreseeable future and thus far looks like he’ll escape having to testify in impeachment hearings.
lee
If ‘this too shall pass’ is actually in our future, then this might be the sliver lining of this administration.
Every single group/person that aligned with Trump will have that hanging around their neck. Next time an evangelical gets up and starts talking about family values and Democrats all anyone has to do is point at Trump.
Pudentilla
I call ’em Junkers.
Frankensteinbeck
Like most Republicans, the vast majority of pundits think war is awesome and exciting. It makes them feel strong, and they get a thrill out of bullying rhetoric. Hell, they act like a Mean Girl Clique in so many other ways, it fits.
Admittedly, this does not quite make them neocons, who live in a bizarre shared delusion where if the United States punches every country that looks at us funny, the rest of the world will not just obey but idolize us and come running to be our happy slaves. It’s bullying taken to the level of psychotic fantasy.
Tony Jay
Slightly (but not very) OT, I have rather large issues with what passes as Political journalism in the Guardian, but the weekly football comic strip by John Squires is always worth a read. Trust me, you’ll like this one.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
hoooooooooooooooooooooooooocoooooooooooooooocooooonode
MattF
@lee: Family values? How about good and evil?
lee
@Tony Jay: Oh, that’s good. Thanks for that.
lee
@MattF: Well not that surprisingly, they seem to be very quite about that recently. I wonder why /s
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I think Romney and the Bush Bros are definitely keeping quiet to preserve the rube vote for the next generation
hells littlest angel
@Betty Cracker: In 2024 there will still be videotape of Trump humiliating Christie, who spent plenty of time as Trump’s Mini-Me.
The Dangerman
Didn’t Trump rage tweet about the NY Attorney General yesterday? Maybe when all his spawn (except Baron) get indicted, maybe he blows a fuse and then we can deal with President Pence.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
sounds about right
rikyrah
@The Dangerman:
He did…but, I didn’t see a cause…cause, there were no indictments brought from the office.
rikyrah
@lee:
We are indeed stacking receipts….no doubt about that.
West of the Rockies
Well, “Joe Sixpack” won’t remember or care that a Nicki Haley soiled herself while wearing Trump-brand diapies, but we will, and progressive media agencies will as well. I think that to varying degrees, all Trump-admin wharf rats will face future pushback.
jl
From what I read of the new polls coming out, looks like Warren and Harris got the biggest boosts out of the debates last week. I can live with that.
SFAW
@Tony Jay:
Throwing in Ivanka was a nice touch.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Iowa Poll — Suffolk University — July 1
Biden……. 24%
Harris…… 16%
Warren…. 13%
Sanders… 9%
Buttigieg… 6%
—————————-
Generic Congressional Ballot — Morning Consult — July 1
Democrats………..45%
republicans……….35%
——————————————————-
the generic ballot looks great. We could pick up another bushel of seats in the House and across state legislatures. As for Iowa – wow. Sanders almost won it three years ago and now he’s sunk to a single digit.
RedDirtGirl
@Tony Jay: That is great!
gene108
@lee:
The problem is the media needs balance. Why did neo-cons re-emerge?
Because if the media shunned them for their failure, they would only talk with Democrats and liberals, and we cannot have that.
Failing upward is a conservative birthright, as welll as being utterly shameless.
I have little hope Trump will make a dent in how conservatives perceive themselves or are perceived by the media.
Msb
Extra points for the correct use of “knave”. Amazing how good trump is for archaic terms of opprobrium, such as odious and sh**gibbon.
RedDirtGirl
Open thread? My sister got me the Harriet Tubman stamp for my 20 dollar bills. I went crazy stamping, but haven’t actually tried to use the altered bill anywhere yet. Anyone have experience with this?
Kelly
Here’s the new Sherman Tank
https://imgur.com/a/4kzZzu3
Omnes Omnibus
Don’t you have to have some dignity for the whole dignity wraith thing to work? I am calling shenanigans.
The Dangerman
@Kelly:
I woulda thought it looked something like this. Trump behind the wheel, of course.
Hoodie
Everyone becomes a dignity wraith when dealing with Trump because Trump’s ego always takes precedence over any principle. Seems obvious that Trump sent Bolton to Mongolia under a ruse that he was staging him there to join him but, when the time came to go to Korea, Bolton’s Uber never showed up. Pretty clearly payback for the embarrassing on-off Iran strike.
In some ways, Trump’s “personal” approach to NK is preferable to that of someone like Bolton, as NK is ruled by a nutjob cult of personality and depends on the whims of one person. However, forming a personal relationship with Kim means that the President of the United States becomes the equivalent of Dennis Rodman. That has negative implications for relationships with other countries, who will presume there’s something wrong with you if you’re hanging out in the nuthouse with Kim. Trump trying to take the same approach with Iran is incredibly stupid.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I heard on MSNBC that Pence had turned his plane around to go back to Washington, now they’re saying the plane never took off. Rather ominous, either way. It is not a health-related matter for either Pence or The Beast
rikyrah
@RedDirtGirl:
I watched the guy who invented the stamp on tv. As long as it’s only the face, folks should have to take it…He says that he’s been doing Tubmans for awhile now.
Tell us how it goes.
rikyrah
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Some distraction to take our eyes off of the evil they’re doing at the Concentration Camps.
Amir Khalid
I should point out that orangutans are generally loners, and thus don’t have a lot to do with dominance hierarchies in daily life. You’re probably thinking of chimpanzees.
jl
Looks like House investigations are going ahead. Looks good to me. I do wish that more emphasis be put on investigations into election integrity for 2020. WH wouldn’t cooperate with that either, labeling such an effort ‘political’, and House pursuing partisan electoral agenda, and such BS.
There should be more discussion in the corporate media that most people watch of how dangerous Trumpster actions are.
Early in our history, Congress periodically made life a living hell for Alexander Hamilton for moths at a time by charging him with malfeasance and corruption, and wanted a full report and audit of how he was handling the nation’s finances. That Congressional effort could have been easily characterized as a ‘partisan witch hunt’. But Hamilton complied. But the corrupt and cowardly corporate news actors of today make the reporters in Hunger Games look like a documentary.
READ: House Panel Sues To Force IRS To Hand Over Trump’s Tax Returns
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/house-trump-tax-return-lawsuit
RedDirtGirl
@rikyrah: I will keep you posted. I’ve been trying to figure out how to get more of my political buttons out into the world. Finally came up with a stoop sale. And I’m thinking of having the stamp available for anyone who wants to use it.
Amir Khalid
@hells littlest angel:
I’m not sure Chris Christie is physically capable of being anyone’s Mini-Me, but I see what you mean.
Betty Cracker
34! It took 34 comments for one of y’all to pick apart my orangutan reference. You people are slipping! Also, my money was on someone pointing out that silverbacks are mountain gorillas and therefore have no place in an analogy involving orangutans.
Anyhoo, now that we’ve got the primate pedantry out of the way, check this out:
The Borowitz Report:
jl
@Betty Cracker: Show me the t-shirts, or it didn’t happen.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The R-moneys certainly think they’re entitled to the throne, gosh darn it, but the line of decent Romneys halted at George and the rest of the lot are vile frauds.
Willard is an anchor baby–pass it on.
Sloane Ranger
Can someone please get Nigel Farage and the idiot Brexiteers to take a basic GCSE History course. Today they turned their backs when the European Anthem was played. Their explanation? They would respect the National Anthems of any of the “ancient nations of Europe ” but not the anthem of a pretend nation like the EU which was intent on supplanting said ancient nations.
Could a qualified historian please explain to them in simple words of one syllable that the bulk of EU nations were originally created after 1918 with the fall of the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian empires, some like Czech Republic and Slovakia in the 1990’s. Germany and Italy were both created in the mid to late 19th century. His own country the UK in the late 18th century and that, the oldest nations, France, Spain and Portugal only took their current form in the mid to late 15th century. This is not ancient by European standards!
Brachiator
A great post that rightly skewers conservatives.
An equally odd group are people like George Will. Will seems to be anti Trump, but his solution seems to be to retreat into some weird reverie in which he babbles about the Founders and lost conservative principles. It’s all in his new book. And Will seems to cling to the notion that Trump is not a big problem or a danger to democracy.
Also, I got to pedant here. Kinda Planet of the Apes mixing of metaphors.
Adult orangutans are solitary, and don’t form dominance hierarchies. And when you talk about silverbacks, you typically mean gorillas.
Tony Jay
@SFAW:
I’m not one to spread rumours, but that’s a direct translation from the two GRU guys congratulating each other on casting choices for the Pee Tape, isn’t it?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jl: they can’t do the tee shirts, or people might notice how her chin and nose have… evolved
Kay
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
That’s good. Better than the composite, which is 6. D’s need double digit leads to compete. It was about 10 going into 2008- obviously it’s not “2020” yet but Obama had the wind at his back with the general D environment. Compare to Clinton in ’16, who had D plus .06. Not even 1. Trump had that advantage. I know we’re forbidden to discuss the factors that went against Clinton where she had no control but there were a hell of a lot of them. All advantaged Trump.
James E Powell
Romney and Christie were already doomed with Republican voters and neither one will ever be a factor in their party’s presidential politics. Republican voters will never forgive Christie for the crime of being nice to Obama. Romney has zero chance of winning any election not dominated by Mormon voters.
We gain nothing from Trump’s disruption & destruction of Republicans’ careers. Everyone whose reputation is destroyed by his association with Trump will be gone, but there is a never ending supply of these RW a holes who advocate cruel and stupid policies that protect and promote the power and wealth of the richest people. The press/media will never stop touting them as principled people who are totally not racist or misogynist and who have great ideas for prosperity and only care about how the great weight of debt will fall on future generations.
joel hanes
@Frankensteinbeck:
a bizarre shared delusion where if the United States punches every country that looks at us funny, the rest of the world will not just obey but idolize us and come running to be our happy slaves.
The middle-school football coach/team dynamic writ large.
Lynno
@West of the Rockies: It is rumored that Nikki was at the sledge hammer event in Israel.
Tony Jay
@RedDirtGirl:
On the one hand, I’d obviously love England to get through to the Final, if only so the Women get a 50/50 chance of showing the Men’s game how it’s done.
OTOH, worth losing to see how badly Tang Toad Wang can screw up showing support for the US in a World Cup Final when his synthetic emulation of actual deserved self-esteem is invested in them failing?
Maybe.
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: Please see #38. Better late than never!
Brachiator
@Sloane Ranger:
I saw a YouTube video of this today. Disgusting.
I think that Farage is playing a long game here. He wants to make sure that the EU does not grant another extension of time to the UK to consider BREXIT. The presence of BREXIT MEPs will always be a threat of future disruption, and the only way to deal with this would be to make sure that the UK leaves the EU.
Or, long shot, revokes Article 50 and remains in the EU. But would the UK be able to elect new MEPs or would they have to settle for the current bunch?
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
If I were not reading and composing while on a jarring commuter bus, I would have nailed this earlier! Oh, well.
Jeffro
I think it’s exciting when a b-list fashion designer and failed real estate developer meet with the head of a nuclear-armed hostile foreign power on behalf of the United States of America.
We’re so used to ‘trumpov’ this and ‘jarvanka’ that, that it almost normalizes it. Take the names off and it’s horrifying.
geg6
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Watching Sanders sink like a rock really has made my day, I must say.
Sloane Ranger
@Brachiator: Farage ‘s simian followers aren’t the only anti EU MEP’s, just the most openly boorish. At this stage, I don’t see how we stay in the EU as both PM candidates are running on a leave with no deal on 31st October if necessary platform.
And if a miracle happens and we do stay, I’m afraid we’re stuck with these arseholes.
Kay
Oh, thank God. It’s a limited sample obviously and I don’t claim to have my finger on the pulse of the nation but for Democrats, IMO, the tax returns have become a kind of proxy for the general corruption and lawlessness and obstruction. They have to get the tax returns. At minimum. Plus, fucker is desperate to hide them so they’re good.
germy
@James E Powell:
I read on twitter that all the morning shows invite Christie to explain who are the most “electable” Democratic candidates. But Christie is a man who thought he was electable, so what does HE know?
Sloane Ranger
@Tony Jay: Similar mixed feelings but will be shouting for England as loud as I can.
MisterForkbeard
@Kay: It’s a good start. I hope they do some additional things as well.
Obvious Russian Troll
@Brachiator: Will isn’t so odd when you remember that he’s an old man who can’t admit that he has personally helped bring about Trumpism through his support of the conservative movement. What else is he going to do–admit that everything he stands for is bullshit?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: I wonder if this timing isn’t related to the tantrum about the NYS AG’s office. Not that I’m suggesting collusion, of course, but perhaps some people who know people in different offices had some casual, hypothetical conversations….
bemused
I started reading “Do the Republicans Even Believe in Democracy Anymore?” by Michael Tomasky even though I have great doubt they ever had any use for democracy.
geg6
@Jeffro:
She wasn’t even b-list. Her shit went straight to Marshall’s and TJMaxx, where I threw it on the floor and stomped on it whenever I ran/run across it. Cheap knockoffs from a cheap knockoff.
Last fall, I was in the local Marshall’s flipping through the tops when I saw an Ivanka top. So I look around to see if anyone is looking, before I dump it off the hangar and set my foot to it. There was another woman at the far end of my row who seemed to be furtively looking around like I was. Our eyes met, we both held up the same top and then dropped them and stomped. Smiled and gave each other a big thumbs up and went about our shopping.
Kay
@MisterForkbeard:
They just can’t say “we didn’t impeach because we need to concentrate on other things” and then not do anything else. It was supposed to be FOR something, this lack of a singular focus. To use in some way. They will lose the impeachers AND the non-impeachers. The worst possible result if the goal was to reduce risk.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@geg6: she wasn’t even a designer, was she? My understanding is she bought or licensed or whatever’d other people’s stuff and marketed under the trump name, to aspirational people who thought that silly TV show was a documentary and (I read a while ago) young Japanese women who buy it as kitsch
jonas
I get that Bolton probably figured he was an evil genius who could convince Trump to gin up a second Iraq War since the first one had gone so swimmingly and this obviously hasn’t worked out and Bolton is now sitting under a bus holding his ass and listening to Trump talk about how wonderful Kim Jong Un is. But who the hell did Trump think Bolton was when he appointed him? It’s like hiring Anna Wintour as your fashion consultant and then acting all indignant when she calls your stained t-shirt and sweats outfit “dumpy.”
Plato
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Oh, something’s up. We’re like people in an abusive household. We watch his emotional weather and we’ve gotten good at seeing storm clouds. Boy oh boy does he want to keep those returns hidden, though. It’s the most important thing in the world to him. 75% of the country won’t be surprised that he’s a fucking fraud as far as “success” and 25% will deny it no matter what they see. So why such fear?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: the generous argument is that they felt they need to have every i dotted and t crossed before they go before judges to enforce subpoenas, the non-generous argument is they’re scared. I think it varies among members and speaking for the caucus as a whole it’s about two-thirds the former and one third the latter.
Also, I think they keep expecting that at some point, the lumpenmittel will at least get curious, if not suspicious, if not angry, about what this man is so desperate to cover up and why, from his tax returns to McGann’s testimony. And I share that frustration, if not surprise, that your average CNN/network news viewers even at this late date kind of shrug and say, “Oh, it’s all just politics”
JGabriel
Michelle Goldberg via Betty Cracker @ Top:
What principles? Warmongering is a principle now?
SenyorDave
@Kay: Ditto. IMO the Democrats won big in 2018 in part because the people wanted to the House to exercise oversight, IOW go after Trump. They can’t afford to look weak. I also think the media will try to both sides it but ultimately it will be Trump and his people who aren’t obeying the law.
Mike in NC
Fat Bastard lives to taunt and humiliate even his most devout minions and henchmen. Remember when Sean Spicer was denied an audience with the pope but still wrote a book marveling about the wonders of Donald Trump?
Betty Cracker
Okay, first this:
The White House assured reporters that it’s not a national emergency, there’s no health issue with Trump, etc. But the White House is staffed with liars, so who knows? Then this:
A person in that Twitter TL speculates that Putin’s change of plans has to do with a submarine accident and produced an article about it. But it occurred yesterday. Maybe one or both of the reports are inaccurate or this is just a coincidence.
Nelle
Is William Weld still in it to primary Trump? I’m in Iowa and was thinking if he showed up, we should get him some big crowds.
philadelphialawyer
“Josh Marshall coined the phrase ‘dignity wraith’ to describe establishment conservatives who exchanged whatever meager principles, decency, independence, credibility, etc., they possessed to align with Trump.”
That’s certainly true of Romney, Graham, Christie, etc, because they are actually “establishment conservatives” and its conceivable that they had at least a “meager” amount of principles, decency, etc.
But Bolton is simply a war monger without any other “conservative” agenda, or any real principles–never mind any decency or credibility. Bolton is a different case. He is more Saruman than he is a ring wraith. He is not so much seduced and enslaved by Trump as he is, in his own mind, a rival to Trump. Perpetual war, for its own sake, is Bolton’s only “principle.” And he will do anything to get it. I have no trouble believing that Bolton would accept, even seek, an appointment from Joe Biden, or even Bernie Sanders!, if he thought he could somehow parlay that into a war with Iran, North Korea, Syria, China, or whoever.
And Romney, Graham, Christie…they are all about selling their dignity and their souls to Trump (Sauron!) so that they can continue to be powerful. Bolton had very, very little dignity to sell, and no soul at all. He was dead inside long before Trump came on the scene.
Plato
Shouldn’t one has to have dignity to start with before one becomes a wraith? There are zero redeeming qualities or principles in those people associated with this con thug.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Nelle: he was on MSNBC yesterday demanding to debate trump, or else Alec Baldwin in his wig and make-up.
Cheryl Rofer
@Betty Cracker:
Also, ignore tweets about the “European Security Council.” There is no such thing. Also tweets that seem to be talking about UFOs but have the wrong acronym. Disinformation.
Kay
@Plato:
I sort of love how the tanks are being portrayed as parade floats. Historians are like “well, MAYBE, but that has never been how that kind of show of force is used, domestically”. The parade float angle. They’re trying to incorporate that as a possibility.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker:
@Cheryl Rofer: I can’t keep up. Who’s tweeting about the ESC? trump? Princess Grifterella? Louise Mensch?
TenguPhule
Objection! Bolton never had principles to begin with.
TenguPhule
@Plato:
If you’re not preparing for things to get ugly by now, you’re going to find yourself in a world of hurt.
Chyron HR
BREAKING: Fire on Russian sub kills 14 crewmen, Russia blames the US. Possible false flag, but Trump orders bombing of northern Virginia just to be sure.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I haven’t seen the actual tweets about the “ESC,” just people talking about them.
Here’s a link to the submarine story. The tweets I’m seeing are all over the map on it. Russia is putting out very little information. My wild guess is that it was looking for that Japanese F-35 that went down in the Pacific a month or so ago. That’s based on the total lack of information.
Brachiator
@Sloane Ranger:
I know that some people will dispute it, but I think that even Corbyn would accept a no deal BREXIT.
I also find it odd that most of the UK newspapers and media seem to be solidly behind BREXIT, no matter what. I don’t know if it’s a sense of resignation to the inevitable or a delusion that things will somehow work out.
And there doesn’t appear to be any political leader with a chance of doing anything who clearly and openly calls for Remain.
And Johnson is a monster, while Hunt is a slimy incompetent. No real choice here at all.
Roger Moore
@philadelphialawyer:
Strictly speaking, Marshall did not restrict the concept of dignity wraiths to conservatives. It applies to anyone who works closely with Trump. I guess some of those people may have lacked dignity to begin with, though, in which case there’s a question if they can become wraiths.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Yep. They better do everything to get them. And, time to hold them in contempt.
Kay
@SenyorDave:
I don’t think rank and file Democrats care which angle they pursue and I also think rank and file PEOPLE have the luxury, legitimately. They can turn that over to the people they hired. They’ll take direction. It’s just that no one is giving them any.
Impeachment, corruption, authoritarianism, just settle on a thread and pull it. We had a guy at our meeting say something completely sincere and completely frustrated where he said “i see all these news stories and I expect something to happen and then nothing happens”. That to me is the person who will check out. He’s giving up.
Cheryl Rofer
This was Pence’s destination, so it’s possible this is the reason he stayed in Washington.
Frankensteinbeck
@Chyron HR:
You have a sarcastic point. It’s not like Trump or Putin have any desire to go to war with each other. I could see Putin using this as an excuse to attack someone, although I was under the impression that his military is already stretched. And it would be bizarre even for this administration to use a fire on a Russian submarine to do… anything. So presumably the Trump/Pence thing and the Russian sub are separate.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I’m running out of patience. NYState has already passed it so that they can get their hands on full NY State tax returns.
But, I guess they have to go through all the motions through the right channels to get the federal ones first.
Frankensteinbeck
@Cheryl Rofer:
That explanation sounds overwhelmingly likely. I mean, even if Pence wasn’t a pants-wetting chickenshit coward like the entire rest of the administration and 99% of Republicans, I would think the Secret Service would put a wingtipped foot down.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl Rofer: dear god if this turns out to be some 19 year olds lighting off firecrackers cause they’re bored… I’ll be pissed and extremely relieved
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Yoikes.
Aleta
@Cheryl Rofer: update
rikyrah
@TenguPhule:
true. he signed up cause he wanted his war with IRAN. It’s THE reason he wanted the job.
Tony Jay
@Sloane Ranger:
You’re right. Victory first, laugh at foreign despot later.
As to your well made point about multiple failed Parliamentary candidate and frog-faced treason vector Farage and his Cult of Boorishness, am I wrong in thinking they’re just paying tribute to their ideological inspirations who did much the same thing when elected in numbers to the Weimar Reichstag?
Nice of them to lay it out so plainly.
Kay
@SenyorDave:
I would LOVE to see Democrats pursue the authoritarian leanings because I know for a fact that that drives a certain kind of college educated conservative crazy. They’ll all vote for Trump so it’s not about persuasion. It’s pure “drive them crazy” on my part. They all like to think of themselves as the people who would stand up to a state actor dictator. It’s central to how they see themselves. All those ridiculous movies they love where they start a cell to oppose Big Authoritarian Communist Brother- Dear Leader is rolling tanks down streets and they’re all saluting. So much for that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OMG WTF ETC… President T.V. Fuddlehead got befuddled when one of his TV friends said something mean about one of his dicktater friends
It’s junior high with twitter, cable TV, and nukes.
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
I strongly suspect that Bolton and/or Pompeo ordered the strike on Iran themselves based on some random drooling rant of Trump’s, and when Trump found out he canceled it all in a shrieking panic.
Timurid
@Cheryl Rofer:
If so, I wonder why they didn’t say that up front.
There’s nothing embarrassing or classified about that explanation.
Chris Johnson
I think it’s pretty natural of me to think that any time Pence and Putin simultaneously scramble, it might be because Trump croaked (or stroked, or something). He’s an old man in a hugely stressful position of massive treason and fakeness and it’s astonishing he survived this long, and Pence is the appointed successor who takes his orders from Putin. So if something is wrong you’ll see both of them scramble, under any sort of cover story.
Mind you, I thought Trump was gonna flee to Russia, too, so I’m far from a guaranteed Cassandra here. Just saying, if things don’t add up, there’s an alternate explanation for it all which will NOT be reflected in Russian-controlled news media.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
so… doesn’t that mean he raised $18M. A cynic might say they were goosing their numbers to look better next to Buttigieg’s. But Our Bernie would never!
Amir Khalid
@Timurid:
People of their ilk are secretive by reflex.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Who dips his cheeseburgers in mayonnaise and thinks exercise is bad for you
Frankensteinbeck
@Timurid:
They’re dimwits who can’t find a light switch? Screwing up the most basic tasks is standard operating procedure with this administration. It’s one of the things that makes them hard to predict. Anything, no matter how inconsequential or dramatic, could turn out to just be an idiot mistake.
Martin
@Kay: Listen very carefully to Nancy’s statements. There’s an angle there which I’m sympathetic to, but I’m conflicted about.
I think the gist of her argument is that impeachment without removal from office isn’t a sufficient deterrent to this kind of behavior when the GOP is marinating so heavily in the drama triangle. But prison time would be. Impeachment is a big hoary fight with slim chance of success, but if Dems win the WH in 2020, then we control the DOJ and we serve him with an indictment on the helicopter out of the WH. It becomes a scenario that the Dems control with much greater authority and can make much more public because there’s no negotiating over the articles, and it comes with much greater consequences. It also sends a signal to both political parties – there are worse things than impeachment, so the next time this comes up, choose wisely. I think there’s a Pelosi/Harris axis on this, btw. I’d expect to see Harris make the prosecutors case for this should the question come up.
Like I said, I’m not sure I buy it, but it’s a much stronger argument than ‘impeachment is a distraction’. Nancy knows she’ll be no more successful getting legislation through the Senate as Articles of Impeachment.
James E Powell
@SenyorDave:
The Democrats in congress have some kind of deeply embedded resistance to doing anything that might upset the RWers or cause the Village Courtiers to question their manners. All they give their most ardent supporters is grief and excuses about how they can’t do anything.
Searcher
@Kelly: I recently learned I had an ancestor who participated in the Atlanta Campaign, but alas, their regiment was reassigned before the March to the Sea.
My family doesn’t have any lore about it, not being a particularly militaristic bunch, but it brings a smile to my face to think that gre-gre-gre-gran’ther might have burned some plantations back in the day.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
And Trump is still meandering towards a confrontation with Iran, the official statements condemning Iran from the White House have been getting worse.
So Bolton may still get what he wants. Which should terrify everyone.
Cheryl Rofer
@Chris Johnson: Perhaps we should be wondering about the whereabouts of Air Force I.
(I follow a couple of people who monitor odd aircraft movements, and they haven’t said anything.)
TenguPhule
@Martin: That’s a big if that’s being relied on there. Republicans have thrown out the normal rules. They know there are unfortunate consequences if they lose.
Plato
EU chooses its first woman chief.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Martin: it’s also possible that hearings– Impeachment or Impeachment-in-all-but-name– are more effective later in the year, either after Labor Day 2019 or next spring. Possible. I have no flipping idea.
Cheryl Rofer
Martin
@Roger Moore: I think the term presumes these people lacked any principles to begin with, which is why they’re drawn to Trump and why they’re so rapidly sold out by Trump. Trump is like a honeypot for amorality, and his narcissism ensures that anyone why flies too close gets destroyed.
Martin
@TenguPhule: There’s nothing low stakes about any of this. Pelosi plays the big game.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
That’s because the propaganda has always shown the state actor dictator being a person of the left.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
I keep saying this. People need to believe their vote will result in changes they want.
TenguPhule
@Martin: Even the best player can’t work with a marked deck, a crooked dealer and no rules being enforced.
Roger Moore
@Martin:
Anyone who thinks Trump is likely to stick around for long enough to be served with an indictment by a Democratic successor is dreaming. Once it’s clear he can’t use the presidency to keep the indictments at bay, Trump will find an excuse to be out of the country- and in a place without an extradition treaty- on inauguration day.
trollhattan
Two big changes to US starting XI: Horan instead of Mewes and Press instead of Rapinoe. Horan isn’t a huge surprise (her yellow card is now cleared) but Press is. Pino injured, or is Ellis simply player-matching?
ETA Big changes for England, too: Goalkeeper Karen Bardsley is injured so Carly Telford comes in for only her second major tournament game, having played in the group game against Argentina. Rachel Daly is also in for Fran Kirby, while Beth Mead replaces Toni Duggan
Betty Cracker
@Roger Moore: Permanent exile works for me.
jl
This nonsense again. The whole thing is a false choice. Australia is close to current progressive proposals for Medicare for All, private insurance mostly limited to role BS envisions. Switzerland is a private insurance based version of a very strong Obamacare type program. They look almost identical in terms of population health and percentage of GDP spent on health care.
If we want to ‘Go Swiss!’, can the US political system produce the very strong private insurance and corporate provider market regulatory system that makes involvement of private health insurance work? That is the real question. But I don’t see it ever discussed. Maybe Professor Senator (or is it Senator Professor?) Warren can explain it when she has more time to talk at a future debate.
@RonBrownstein
In new @CNN poll, even among Ds and D-leaning independents more prefer a universal system that maintains private insurance (48%) than one that eliminates it (31%). White/non-white, men/women, older/younger in D coalition: all tilt more toward preserving private insurance.Ronald Brownstein added,
@RonBrownstein
Big yellow flag to Ds on health care: just 21% of adults in @CNN poll say they want a universal ntl health care system that ends private insurance. The good news for Ds: Another 32% want a ntl system if it maintains private coverage. The last 40% don’t want a national system.
https://twitter.com/RonBrownstein/status/1145798287301021696
Edit: another problem is that most people, most of the time, do not incur big health care costs. And private insurers go out of their way to treat that part of the population very nicely. Things change if you get hit by a bus, develop heart failure or get cancer.
Brachiator
@Martin:
Bullshit. Bullshit.
You cannot guarantee conviction and removal from office. What would be the point of saying that you only impeach if everyone agrees in advance on the outcome?
But if the evidence is strong, even those who vote against conviction might suffer negative political consequences.
Also, new damaging evidence might be uncovered during the impeachment process.
And if Trump somehow wins re-election, any attempt to impeach him will be viewed as purely political payback.
This even sounds like partisan political retribution.
And is the idea to prosecute Trump for obstruction? Or are there other crimes you want to charge him with?
Betty Cracker
@trollhattan: OMG, I hope Pino is okay!
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore: Statute of limitations would be tolled while he is out of the country.
Martin
@Roger Moore: That’s my guess too. But in some ways that works nearly as well to drive home the point. It does say something to have a former US president that is unable set foot in the US or in any nation that extradites to the US.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
I’m sorry, could you point to anything specific or is this just one of those feeling things when you’re basically accusing Corbyn of being not only completely fucking stupid, but actively malicious against his own country? Because that’s what No-deal Brexit is.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
It is a huge surprise considering she’s scored our last four goals. Also going with Press and not Lloyd, but Press has more speed along that edge so perhaps tactics, but still….
Nelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I can’t ever see voting Republican but I can see that larger crowds for Weld might upset the orange thing. That would be worth it.
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
It would work for me, too, though I’d also want to seize all his assets.
TenguPhule
Because this absolutely does not sound like the beginning of pograms, nosiree! //s
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker:
Not if he’s allowed to enjoy it.
Sorry no, letting criminals escape from the logical consequences of their actions is how we got into this whole mess in the first place.
debit
@TenguPhule: I have checked out. Cancelled my cable, don’t look at the news, don’t expect anything to happen. That doesn’t mean that I am not on fucking fire to vote. I have just given up on anything meaningful happening until we take the Senate back. If we don’t, then it’s truly game over and all of the finger pointing and wanking about who didn’t do what will worth exactly what it is right now: nothing.
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t think waiting out a statute of limitations would be his primary goal in leaving the country. He would be hoping he could sneak home the next time there was a Republican in charge. This is part of the reason I’d want to seize his assets and/or have a state indictment as well as federal.
jl
@Martin: I share worry of some other commenters, that that the way things are going, the public won’t see a big Democratic Congressional push on either attempting to enact policy, or to throw the presidential bum out of office.
Add in a possible Biden nomination, that is looking like a band doing a nostalgia tour, playing golden oldies over and over again. Doesn’t add up to much to get out the vote, which will be critical.
I sympathize with Democratic leadership doing things in a methodical careful way. But sometimes it seems like they are relying on some kind of magical awakening of outrage to inspire their voting base. They need to be more aggressive and pro-active.
TenguPhule
@debit:
Yes, but you’re politically educated. Our majority relies on a lot of people who aren’t normally involved in politics. They don’t know and don’t care about the nuances and procedures. They vote because they’re told that it will change things.
Ruviana
@Brachiator: Still, it’s only appropriate that someone nymmed “Brachiator” should make this point!
PST
@feebog:
Unlike many in Trump’s circle, I think he does. In the words of Walter Sobchak:
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
Life in exile is better than spending the rest of your life in SuperMax, but it’s not avoiding all consequences. Given that there’s very little we can do to stop Trump from fleeing before the next president is inaugurated, or to bring him back if he goes somewhere that won’t extradite him (e.g. Russia) I’m not sure what alternative you would suggest.
jl
@PST: ;’We can blow a lot of shit up, so let’s do it!’ at least is an ethos for the neocons.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
sounds like Mrs Conway is having a tense day at work. I wonder if this is related to yesterday’s tweets.
Chris Johnson
@Roger Moore: What assets?
catclub
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Why is the VP on opioids?
Sister Golden Bear
@Kay:
The fear of an overwhelming narcissistic injury. Plain and simple.
As The Hoarse Whisper says, narcs are completely predictable underneath the outer chaos. They’ve only got two drivers: get praise, avoid shame.
It may not matter to others, but being exposed absolutely matters to him.
jl
@Sister Golden Bear: The best people are always very nice to him. Kim gave him a special historic moment at the DMZ the other day that everyone noticed, for example. So, Kim gets something nice, like veering off into a completely new direction on US policy on NK nukes. I guess quicker and easier to do that than find a special fruit basket for Kim being nice to him.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She was also SUPER defensive about blowback to Trump’s hijacking the 4th of July festivities in DC. I hope some patriotic parks services employee leaks details about the cost of the “Salute to ME and Festival of Sir.”
Roger Moore
@Chris Johnson:
Trump has plenty of assets. He owns lots of stuff. It may be mortgaged to the hilt, but that just means there’s an offsetting liability, not that it isn’t an asset.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“Festival of Sir”
: applause :
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Roger Moore: I think it was a New Yorker article that detailed trump’s involvement with Mark Burnet (sp?) that lead to his silly TV show, the author said that trump and Burnet have each made 100s of millions from. That’s kind of hard to believe, but it ran for more than a decade and was probably cheap to produce, so I guess it’s possible. I think that’s the least of the things he’s trying to cover up: What money he does have comes from his daddy and the TV show, not from being a great builder
RedDirtGirl
@rikyrah: Well, I successfully put my first Tubman Twenty into circulation. It was facing down and the cashier didn’t notice. Next time I’ll be bolder.
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think Trump has also made out well by laundering money for the Russian mob. That’s what he really doesn’t want anyone to find in his taxes.
BroD
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Pence forgot to bring the opiods?
Martin
@Brachiator: New evidence will almost certainly be revealed. Look, I’m not convinced that it’s a better strategy, but Impeachment carries huge risks as well. If it fails, as it’s likely to given GOP intransigence, then all of these institutions are permanently damaged. Impeachment becomes moot – it’ll never be employed ever again. Already look at how hesitant everyone is after the Clinton impeachment. The GOP know this outcome, but they’re caught in a suicide pact and I think they’ll see it through. They have so much invested – gerrymandering, voter suppression, dicking with the census, and they’re steadily embracing foreign interference. They’re up to their neck in destroying liberal democracy for the sake of winning, why not destroy the last remaining mechanisms for holding the executive accountable? If Dems try this and fail, then it’s over.
If instead they wait and try him in a completely different arena, it leaves the institution at least not completely busted – just mostly busted.
Again, I’m not sold on the idea, but I’m pretty sure that’s the idea.
Ruckus
@Kay:
His entire life has been a fraud. The proof is in the returns. And he knows it
...now I try to be amused
Megan Rapinoe’s replacement Christen Press scored a goal in the England game, so Rapinoe’s position scored even if Rapinoe has not.
Ruckus
@Chris Johnson:
If the fat bastard was sane and he was actually trying to do the work then the job he stole would be stressful. So saying this is stressful probably isn’t actually true. He doesn’t read anything as complicated as a bag of potato chip ingredients label, his vocabulary is about the same as a 5 yr old and his ideas are worth a burning bag of dog shit on an old mans porch.
The Pale Scot
@Kelly:
I’ve been kicking around the idea of a Grant-Sherman “Tour of the South” t-shirt, with a list of the cities torched on the back with little bonfire pics next to them. But, living in Fl without a concealed permit wearing it is probably not a good idea
The Pale Scot
@Plato:
This cartoon from that twitter list? conversation? is awesome
The Pale Scot
@trollhattan:
That’s rich…
<a href="Operation Ivy Bells“>Operation Ivy Bells
In the early 1970s the U.S. government learned of the existence of an undersea communications cable in the Sea of Okhotsk, which connected the major Soviet Pacific Fleet naval base at Petropavlovsk on the Kamchatka Peninsula to the Soviet Pacific Fleet’s mainland headquarters at Vladivostok.
Great book on the Op
Blind Man’s Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage
J R in WV
@geg6:
Me too — quoted for truth~!!!~
J R in WV
@Martin:
And the helicopter lands in the yard of a Federal Prison Camp, instead of Joint Base Andrews. What a surprise to the whole Trump Family!!!
hahaah hee hee
The Pale Scot
@Roger Moore:
Exactly, prosecute Trump Inc as a criminal organization, use RICO and strip it of it’s assets. Then unravel the treason and send the Trumplets to Gitmo. Causing Donny Dollhand’s grief will not save the country, Stripping the Trumplets of their assets and nixing their dreams of having tea with Queen or Brooke Astor with a felony conviction is the where the odds are as far as good outcomes. When this gammon dies the whole operation will fold up and move on. The investigation strategy has to focus on them to get continuity when he drops, or public opinion will just shrug and turn away to the next shiny thing. Which should be the investigation and the trial
Anathema Device
Orangutans don’t go in for this crap, and silverbacks are gorillas. Macaques are the ones you’re looking for. Although, interestingly, while thug males will sometimes rise to dominate the troup and the ladies the females prefer nice males who don’t rape and bully them, showing that female macaques are actually smarter than MAGAs of any gender.
[Long time lurker, second time commenter, forgot to say hi before]