From The Daily Beast:
Billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein was arrested for allegedly sex trafficking dozens of minors in New York and Florida between 2002 and 2005, and will appear in court in New York on Monday, according to three law enforcement sources. The arrest, by the FBI-NYPD Crimes Against Children Task Force, comes about 12 years after the 66-year-old financier essentially got a slap on the wrist for allegedly molesting dozens of underage girls in Florida.
For more than a decade, Epstein’s alleged abuse of minors has been the subject of lawsuits brought by victims, investigations by local and federal authorities, and exposés in the press. But despite the attention cast on his alleged sex crimes, the hedge-funder has managed to avoid any meaningful jail time, let alone federal charges.
The new indictment—which, according to two sources, will be unsealed Monday in Manhattan federal court—will reportedly allege that Epstein sexually exploited dozens of underage girls in a now-familiar scheme: paying them cash for “massages” and then molesting or sexually abusing them in his Upper East Side mansion or his palatial residence in Palm Beach. Epstein will be charged with one count of sex trafficking of minors and one count of conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking of minors—which could put him away for a maximum of 45 years. The case is being handled by the Public Corruption Unit of the Southern District of New York, with assistance from the district’s human-trafficking officials and the FBI.
Several of the billionaire’s employees and associates allegedly recruited the girls for Epstein’s abuse, and some victims eventually became recruiters themselves, according to law enforcement. The girls were as young as 14, and Epstein knew they were underage, according to details of the arrest and indictment shared by two officials.
Epstein’s attorney Martin Weinberg declined to comment when reached by The Daily Beast on Saturday night. The SDNY also declined to comment.
“It’s been a long time coming—it’s been too long coming,” said attorney David Boies, who represents Epstein accusers Virginia Roberts Giuffre and Sarah Ransome. “It is an important step towards getting justice for the many victims of Mr. Epstein’s sex trafficking enterprise.
“We hope that prosecutors will not stop with Mr. Epstein because there were many other people who participated with him and made the sex trafficking possible,” he told The Daily Beast.
None of this would be possible without Julie K. Brown’s reporting at The Miami Herald, which reignited interest in Epstein, his crimes, his co-conspirators, his enablers, and his protectors by giving a public voice to some of his victims who were cheated out of their chance for justice by current Secretary of Labor Alex Acosta.
Epstein’s arrest and pending indictment is going to have massive repercussions within the US, as well as in other countries. The 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals, in response to legal intervention made by Brown, has recently ordered the unsealing of 167 pages of documents in a lawsuit brought by one of Epstein’s victims, Virginia L. Guiffre, in her attempts to get Epstein’s sentence overturned so that she and her fellow victims can seek actual justice, as opposed to the sweetheart deal that Epstein received. Here’s the link to the 2nd Circuit’s order. Lisette Voytko at Forbes explains:
A federal appeals court Wednesday ordered that 167 documents in a lawsuit that alleges famously well-connected financier Jeffrey Epstein participated in a sex-trafficking ring should be unsealed—and that many of his powerful friends could be named.
- In its 27-page decision, the court cited the public’s right to access the case information outweighed the privacy of certain individuals, “including numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well‐known Prime Minister, and other world leaders.”
- Virginia Guiffre (now Roberts) filed the lawsuit against Ghislane Maxwell, alleging that she had used her as part of a sex trafficking network of underage girls to Epstein and a number of his famous friends, including his lawyer Alan Dershowitz and Prince Andrew. Both men denied the accusations.
- Dershowitz has supported unsealing the documents, according to the Daily Beast.
- The documents will not be immediately available, as anonymous individuals involved in the case have two weeks to file appeals.
- The court advised the documents be read carefully. “We therefore urge the media to exercise restraint in covering potentially defamatory allegations, and we caution the public to read such accounts with discernment,” wrote the court in its decision.
Those 167 documents contain up to 2,000 pages of material! This has the potential to expose a lot of powerful men in the US and elsewhere. Democrats, Republicans, politicians, businessmen, as well as other elites and/or notables. And, most likely as was the case with Ghislaine Maxwell, some women who enabled or covered up this crime spree as well. Regardless of whose ox gets gored as a result of Epstein’s pending indictment on Monday and the forthcoming release of the court documents from Guiffre’s suit, we should all be pleased that these women are one step closer to justice that has been too long denied.
Open thread!
SiubhanDuinne
WOOT!
Cheryl Rofer
I was just going to post this, Adam. Thanks for anticipating. ?
I have been greatly disturbed that one of Epstein’s rape centers is in New Mexico, not far from Santa Fe. I hope they put this monster and his clients away for a very long time.
Baud
There’s so much stuff that would have stayed under the radar if Trump hadn’t won. I guess there’s a silver lining to everything. We were so ignorant.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: You’re welcome. Also, not surprising at all that he never stopped committing these crimes. One of the few crimes that require consistently applied long term incarceration. Especially for the wealthy and powerful.
B.B.A.
Wipe them out. All of them.
rikyrah
This might explain Dolt45’s temper tantrum against AG James this week??
rikyrah
@Adam L Silverman:
Who could be surprised that he never stopped?
Not me.
Even after that fraudulent sweetheart deal Acosta did for him??
Chetan Murthy
@rikyrah: But this was in federal court, no? I mean, she’s NYS AG (certainly a powerful job, and I sure hope she succeeds in it) but that’s unrelated, no?
chris
Hmm, no mention of a pizza shop basement. Yet.
Lit3Bolt
I hope they sweep into every one of his properties and confiscate everything.
Adam L Silverman
@chris: Apparently that’s in Tennessee.
Adam L Silverman
@Lit3Bolt: Given that DOJ has opened an investigation, and this IS NOT an IG investigation, it is a regular one, into Acosta, and that it was done jointly with the NYPD’s Crimes Against Children Task Force, I’m sure they’re going to dot every i and cross every t.
chris
@Adam L Silverman: I saw that earlier! It’s just disgusting.
Adam L Silverman
People need to prepare themselves that Bill Clinton may be implicated in this as he was chummy with Epstein. And there will likely be other notable Democratic politicians, donors, appointees, etc caught up in this as well. It won’t all be Republicans and scumbags like Dershowitz.
mrmoshpotato
Whole bunch of sick shit is going to come out, isn’t it?
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
Stop it. People will obsess over Bill Clinton for weeks. What people need to do is what for the information.
CatFacts
Take them all down. Regardless of party.
Adam L Silverman
@mrmoshpotato: Yes. Yes it is.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: That’s why I recommend that people need to be prepared for the possibility. Forewarned is forearmed.
Especially given this stupidity:
plato
Finally some justice. The totus thug being a main part of this sickos’ club is why mike dense was rushed back to DC?
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
No reason to single him out among the thousands of people who knew Epstein. People simply can’t deal with the Clintons rationally.
TaMara (HFG)
Burn it all down.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
I’d say it’s possible that he is. But. I also don’t think we should point fingers until we see the documents. It will be enraging enough that it has been happening and covered up and I imagine that the list of people will be farther ranging than many want to believe. But jumping on the band wagon with no evidence other than supposition? Bill Clinton was a governor and president. He probably knows a lot of people who are in no way acceptable people. And he may be one of them. Or he may not. I’m keeping an open mind.
ETA I can get enraged at the drop of a hat. When it’s necessary. Just not sure jumping on the bandwagon with no evidence is wise.
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: The speculation on the previous thread about this was disgusting as people seemed to slaver over the possiblity of Bill going to prison for it.
. I think Baud pointed out that Epstein threw parties and “parties”. Bill Clinton was certainly at a party* but there’s no evidence that he was at a “party”.
I will point out again that Bill Clinton has a type, and underage girls are not it.
*I think Hillary was at one of the regular parties too.
Baud
If we have to speculate, let’s focus on this guy.
opiejeanne
@Ruckus: Thank you.
Patricia Kayden
Pedophile scum. He needs to spend the rest of his days in prison. I wonder who else will go down with him.
opiejeanne
@Baud: And thank you.
Gin & Tonic
It would be a crying shame if Alan Dershowitz were to be indicted in this as well.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Jesus Effing CHRIST.
geg6
I don’t give a shit who is unmasked, this is the best news in ages. Bastard needs to pay.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: Trump sure loves him some scummy people. I guess Epstein is one of “the best people” he boasted about.
Another Scott
– maybe?
Cheers,
Scott.
plato
@Baud: Yup.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gin & Tonic:
My fucking heart is fucking breaking.
Gin & Tonic
@opiejeanne: I’m pretty sure ol’ Bill was a horny bastard, but I doubt he was an idiot.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden:
His freaking Secretary of Labor is already implicated in this mess.
Mandalay
@Baud: Well said, yet again. (And my views on Bill Clinton haven’t changed at all in the last 20 minutes.)
geg6
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m fine with that. This is rape and child abuse. Fuckem.
Chetan Murthy
[there’s a …. canon for this kinda thing, but I don’t know where to look for it …]
This news, it makes me wonder, and I don’t wanna get too far out onna ledge here, but still, don’t jump all over me for this, but …. is there ANY male-dominated field/institution/area/etc that ISN’T a hotbed of sexual iniquity?
And are there any parallels with -truly- female-dominated institutions? [so the Magdalene Laundries don’t count, b/c they were overseen by -men-].
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
@Patricia Kayden:
I guarangoddamtee that the first time he’s asked about Epstein, his answer is going to be some kind of riff on “Epstein? Think I’ve heard the name, but I’ve never met him. I have no idea who he is. Possibly he brought me a Diet Coke once.”
TaMara (HFG)
@Baud: That should be posted daily on every social media site by everyone, until the media has no choice but to talk about how it’s trending. And is there video of him saying it? Even better.
plato
@Baud: Most likely that ‘appointment’ was a payoff for keeping his mouth shut.
plato
@Gin & Tonic: snark?
SiubhanDuinne
@Chetan Murthy:
No. SATSQ.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: I thought he was an excellent president despite his personal foibles. And whole heartedly supported Secretary Clinton’s campaign for the presidency. Not sure how that is not dealing with the Clinton’s rationally. But, perhaps, in light of @opiejeanne: comment I need to clarify. What I think is going to happen is that a disinformation and misinformation campaign is going to quickly be spun up, I expect it has been waiting to go for a while. And its purpose will be to influence for effect. It will center around the allegation that the Clinton’s attended a party or were on Epstein’s yacht or in his plane. Regardless of what Clinton’s type might be. This will start with the usual suspects, as I outlined the other night, make its way through the chans, conservative, alt-right, and far right social media, then through the fringe conservative news media like Breitbart, The Daily Caller, The Federalist, The Blaze, the Daily Signal, Gateway Pundit, where it will then be repicked up on social media, amplified buy Russian trolls and bots, as well as the RNC, the President’s reelection surrogates, his other surrogates, and then pushed into the mainstream news media starting with Fox and CNN and The New York Times. Which will then force everyone else to cover it. By the time the actual evidence comes out, at least one, if not both Clinton’s will be convicted in the court of public opinion and that will be weaponized against the Democratic Party, the Democratic National Committee, and the Democratic candidates for president and other offices. And it won’t make one bit of difference that there will be notable Republicans and conservatives, in and out of office, that will actually be implicated.
Another Scott
@Baud: PBS Newshour:
Where’s that 16 ton weight when you need it?
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
plato
Cassandra again.
lamh36
@Chetan Murthy: do we really believe Chump understands the difference? all he know is NYC…and Black lady AG
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: Good catch.
B.B.A.
@Chetan Murthy: Testosterone is the root of all evil.
Scottinnj
I am not a lawyer but why wouldn’t the indictment not also cover those that were involved with the young girls?
And if one of the alleged participants was politician X but they were not indicted, I cant think the indictment would name the name I e it will say John Doe 1 John Doe 2 eyc
TS (the original)
trump surely has all the very best people working for him & the GOP congress confirmed so many of them. I never give up hoping there is an afterlife so each one of them pays the price of what they have done.
plato
Ohio Mom
@opiejeanne: I didn’t see the previous thread, these are good points.
The fallout from this trial will be a reflection of the cold civil war we are in, with each side cheering when someone from the other side is implicated, and up in arms when someone from their side is named. It’s going to get very noisy.
SiubhanDuinne
@plato:
If our media are any good, they will hammer Trump on this at his next presser
Oh, wait.
Chetan Murthy
@B.B.A.: @SiubhanDuinne:
No disagreeing. Just … y’know, it’s something, isn’t it? It’s not -only- that the most urgent task any woman faces, is telling apart the rapists from the decent men. But that any organization run by men is so invariably going to end up covering up for rapists.
Gvg
Rigor reporting gave me the impression Epstein hung around powerful people so that cops and such would hesitate to bother him. It has also been published before that Clinton wasn’t known to be at that kind of party.
On the other hand because the GOP went so nuts when Bill was elected, I assumed the Lewinski story was a lie, until the blue dress proved it, so i’ll wait and see this time. Hard to believe he would let Hillary run is he had that kind of secret. Bill is not as stupid as Trump.
frosty
@Chetan Murthy:
I’m going to take a flyer here and say engineering.
Cheryl Rofer
Jay
Don’t forget to keep the victims and their lawyers in mind who’s dogged pursuit of justice for over a decade has resulted in these events.
BruceFromOhio
… and that a two-bit ratfuck soulless criminal is off the street, going to where he can’t hurt anyone else.
Adam L Silverman
@frosty: I don’t know what you did to that comment, but I’ve fixed it.
Amir Khalid
@opiejeanne:
There could well have been parties Epstein threw that included a “party” for a select subset of his guests. If Bill and/or Hillary attended such a party, it might be hard to establish if they were among the innocent guests or the select subset.
Another Scott
Twitter:
Good, good.
(via Cole’s twitter feed)
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike in NC
Maybe Bannon, Miller, & Gorka will be named…
frosty
@Chetan Murthy:
I’m going to take a flyer here and say engineering.
B.B.A.
@frosty: No, it’s “just” a hotbed of libertarianism and fascism (but I repeat myself).
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
We will see if it has any semi MSM legs given Pizzagate and QAnon has been chaseing this snark since 2014.
With out actual evidence, any claims along this line put the accusers/allegations/ratfuckers in the same camp as the Pizzagaters/QAnon CT/Flat Earther bag o nuts.
QAnon/Pizzagate may have cut the legs off of this attack angle.
The Dangerman
If names like Dershowitz (and maybe Trump) are discussed regarding their “friendship” with Epstein, I have no problem adding in Clinton, too.
Another Scott
@Scottinnj: IANAL either, and the Daily Beast site seems to have crashed, but this seems to be a “trafficking” indictment. Presumably the partiers/abusers/rapists would be charged under a different law.
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
@Another Scott:
That story is why I think Adam’s scenario won’t play out. Trump’s too close to it. Make noise about Clinton and it will only remind people that Trump’s in it too. Bigly.
frosty
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks, sorry for the duplicate. It wasn’t worth reading twice.
We return you to your regularly scheduled comments.
Another Scott
@debbie: It would be kinda interesting to hear if Michael Cohen “fixed” that little problem for Donnie, also too. I get suspicious when lawsuits suddenly go away…
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: Except Epstein’s crimes were real, can be documented, and will be delineated in the court filings. Pizzagate and QAnon are complete fabrications.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
I don’t doubt a made up story about Bill Clinton will happen no matter the evidence, even after it’s widely available. That’s not actually what you said at first. Yes I know you didn’t accuse him of anything but from the comments, including my own that is not how you sounded even though you specifically didn’t say that. We know Epstein has been an asshole pedophile for a long time. We know that Bill Clinton cheated on his wife in the Oval office. About Bill Clinton’s sex life that is what we know.
frosty
@B.B.A.: I haven’t personally seen the fascism, but yes, libertarians now and again. And people who vote Republican.
The younger ones we’re hiring now in my discipline are at least 50% women, a huge change from when I started out. And I don’t know but I strongly suspect not a single one would ever vote R.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: The higher the monkey climbs, the more his behind is exposed. He’s climbed way too high.
GxB
White, obscenely wealthy “alpha-male” hetero (albeit with tastes that tends to the “young” side) may actually face consequences for his actions. Large portion siding with his wealth as a shield: “If he’s worth so much – how can he be bad?”
Queue 27% of Merkins focusing onto the “-stein” surname.
Well, you know, THOSE people… Suddenly everything is a-ok in their world.
[Author’s note: Awaits a BJ pendant bitch-fest as commenters rage over whether I used “queue” vs “cue” properly. Point being: we’re all in this raging, flaming, shit-fire together. Know your enemy. I ain’t one of them.]
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
I will actually be quite surprised if it turns out that Bill was messing around with underage girls, because that has never seemed to be something that interested him and it didn’t come up during the Whitewater investigation.
I am fully expecting that Bill being friends with and accepting donations from a child trafficker will be portrayed as a worse crime than anything Epstein and his Republican cronies did.
But let the chips fall where they may.
Spanky
Two words: Presidential pardon. Too much money, too many Master of the Universe.
Not guaranteeing one will be offered – there may be someone in the White House who can successfully make the point that to do so would be a complete shitstorm, but I fully expect to hear the idea being floated.
(If not Epstein, certainly Acosta if it comes to him.)
Jay
@The Dangerman:
Epstein was a Billionaire Socialite. Some of the parties he threw in New York had 1,000 attendees. He bankrolled most of the Met Gala one year.
He has/had luxury estates across the US, in the Carribean, in Europe.
He invited socialites, financiers and politically powerful people to Private Gala’s at his estates.
He also had a small clique of people, fellow powerful pedofiles, that he would invite to “rape events” at his Estates.
So when people are bandying around alleged names, ( other than Dersh, Dolt45, Nadler, Dolt Jr, etc) like Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew, with out evidence and charges, to back it up, it’s just QAnon bs.
Ruckus
@B.B.A.:
Men and women both make and have testosterone in their bodies. Men of course have a much higher level. And it is entirely possible that men can be fucking assholes because of testosterone. But I’ve met some women who it must be said in that context, must have an overabundance of it. Not as many women as men for sure but still there is evidence to me that being a fucking asshole may not have as much to do with testosterone and more to do with personality and upbringing.
Patricia Kayden
@Cheryl Rofer: That’s important to note. Barr is much sleazier than I anticipated.
Spanky
@Ruckus: The only reason that it seems like there are more male assholes is because they seem to have a much greater opportunity to display it. As women gain parity in the professional world, I expect that to even out somewhat.
chris
Twitter trolls were on the Bill Clinton angle as soon as the article came out. “Bill Clinton took 26 trips on Epstein’s private jet.” Et fucking cetera. Gonna be a big stinking mess.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Pizzagate and QAnon were created to confuse the issue and preemptively tar Democrats with Trump’s known pedophilia. The fact that they were able to draw cultists into it only makes it more pernicious.
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
What comes out of the Courts is a far cry from the bs. that would come from Still Dead Briebart, The Daily Caller, Laura Inghram, Tucker Carlson.
Unlike Clinton Cash, Uranium One, there is a an already lined up defence for unsubstantiated rumours and allegations, (plus liability) that may cause the RWMedia and the MSM not to go chaseing off after the faux RWNJ scandal du jour.
Outside of the ususal suspects, Pizzagaters and QAnoners, the “taint” may prevent Mags or Tapper from chasing mere allegations and innuendo.
The Dangerman
@Jay:
There are charges and evidence against “Dersh, Dolt45, Nadler, Dolt Jr, etc”?
Matt McIrvin
@B.B.A.: If I had to guess I’d say a lot of the really hardcore libertarians and fascists are also pedophiles, whether or not they’ve actually done anything with those proclivities. It seems to go with the territory, just based on the stuff they say in online fora.
Adam L Silverman
Steve in the ATL
@Ruckus:
It’s true—I spent an evening boozing with him when he was governor of Arkansas!
Jay
@chris:
Twitter trolls are taken as a joke by 90% of twitter.
Matt McIrvin
@chris: In 2016 the Trump fans were already out in force trying to tar Hillary Clinton by association with Epstein, even though his ties to Trump are a hundred times stronger. It’s what they do.
Jay
@The Dangerman:
Both Dersh and Dolt 45 have been accused by victims, Dersh goes to Court tomorrow on defamation charges that will open the gate to his victim testifying.
Nadler was busted with several phones full of kiddie porn by the FBI and is a convicted pedofile and sex offender.
Mnemosyne
Sorry to say, but I am cynical about the chances of this new prosecution going anywhere. There are way too many rich and powerful people involved, most of whom have strong ties to media outlets like the New York Times that have a vested interested in, say, Alan Dershowitz not being unmasked as a creepy pedophile.
I wish the prosecutors all the luck in the world, because they’re going to need it.
Chetan Murthy
@Jay: *cough* surely s/Nadler/Nader/ (no “l”) yes?
Ruckus
@Spanky:
Well testosterone does account for some of the reason males are generally larger than females – muscle mass. That said I used to have a customer who was about 6’5″ and a really wonderful lady. Who took shit from no one. She also didn’t give out any that I know of. I do think that there is a certain amount of truth to what you say and is one reason that so many men are against women having equality. The women will show them up. Another way to think about it is that for many men all they have to give to women is shit. That’s the sum total of their value. They have been taught from a young age that men triumph over women. When I was in boot camp one of the idiots in my company made a pass at a E3 walking by, she read him the riot act and I almost started laughing at him, it was obvious that he understood asshole maleness but hadn’t gotten the concept of rank – respect is earned by how far you’ve gotten, not any other way.
Juice Box
It’s not “Nadler”, it’s George NADER. I was really confused for a few minutes there.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
Yup, btw, I’m Steve Bittern at LGM and other sites.
Ruckus
@Steve in the ATL:
I ate dinner with someone who drank with Bill Clinton. Well that is the final straw, my life is officially shit in a skin suit.
Of course it could just mean that you’ll eat with anyone. Oh wait I did that too, in the navy. Damn it how do I get out of this? Wait I know. My mom once shook hands with Bill Clinton. And I’m pretty sure she thought that was one of her best days. I saw the smile on her face when she said it.
chris
@Jay: It’s the other 10% I’m worried about.
While I have your attention, I trust you know the difference between Nadler and Nader?
Steve in the ATL
@Ruckus: the dude OOZES charisma. It’s inescapable.
Kay
Both the Epstein and Maxwell cases mention Maralago, which is kind of an ..odd coincidence, that there were so many pedophiles running around the Trump family compound down there. Out of all the gross “clubs” they could choose from they chose Donald Trump’s club.
I’m pleased because I think the status of the victims mattered here. These (then) girls, now women, were considered throwaways because they were lower class, even by the federal prosecutors, which is just appalling.
Ruckus
@Steve in the ATL:
Did you sleep with him?
Steve in the ATL
@Ruckus: a gentleman never tells! And neither do I.
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
Dersh goes to Court tomorrow on a defamation case, that will open up the ability for his accuser to testify in Court. In previous cases, he’s caved after the preliminay hearing and settled out of court. He’s used the defamation cases to stall the victims Civil Cases from going forward. He’ll cave on this one too, which will buy him 8 months to a year on one of the cases where he’s named as one of the perps.
The wheels of Justice grind slow,……
Kay
Oh, no! Catastrophe. Don’t let her do any press conferences and we should all be fine.
Chetan Murthy
@Kay: Funny, my first thought was “if she redeems her family’s good name, I won’t be unhappy”.
Ruckus
@Kay:
And any of the other lawyers here.
How many lawsuits/trials are won by the rich and wealthy when against someone much less so or a criminal case that is the least bit difficult to prove? They have the money to waste a lot of court/prosecutor/attorney time. Hell that’s how drumpf has done business for years. Waste enough time and money and quite often the case goes away. It just isn’t worth it to the victim, it consumes them, while the rich asshole just has to pay lawyers.
Ruckus
@Steve in the ATL:
Glad you added that last part. You had me worried that things had gone to your head.
Kay
I can’t even imagine Qanon. There it was, right in front of them, and they missed the real pedo ring. They were on the right CONTINENT….other than that, not great sleuthing on their part.
Kay
@Chetan Murthy:
“Oh, no!” was my actual first reaction. It’s not fair of me. Sins of the father, and all that.
Just to be safe, have someone else do any press conferencing. Better safe than sorry.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus:
Not BillinGlendaleCA.
Kay
Incredible Mr. Acosta missed “dozens” of victims, huh? Must not have been looking too hard.
laura
Man, I wish Dominic Dunne was alive to document the atrocities.
Sunday shows, cover or nah?
Jay
@Ruckus:
Epstein’s victims and their lawyers have been chasing justice in Civil Court for over a decade.
The victories starting with the Miami Herald series, the documents releases, Acosta’s exposure, the ratfucking involved in high level protection of Epstein and his wrist slap, are all the product of their courage, determination and persistence.
Chetan Murthy
@Kay:
IIRC Comey pere fessed up that his wife and daughters really put a hurt on him about Shitler. So I’d give ’em [the womenfolk] all the benefit of the doubt. They recognized an unmitigable piece-of-shit even if Comey pere did not.
Chetan Murthy
@Chetan Murthy:
Just to be clear: their family name -does- need to be redeemed, or it’ll go down in history with Benedict Arnold. Heck, might still do so despite her best efforts.
hervevillechaizelounge
@Chetan Murthy:
I hate that a Comey is involved; now the whole Epstein saga will be construed as more evidence of deep state shenanigans.
Christ, James fucking Comey is a shit sandwich that keeps repeating:(
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I thought Bubba didn’t drink ? not that he was a teetotaler like Biden or trump, just didn’t care for alcohol
Kay
@Ruckus:
Poor and middle class people find it very difficult to win against wealthy people because they are outspent and perhaps worse, they are timed out. They can’t wait that long. They have to give up and get on with their lives.
Do you remember The Paint Spot? The painting contractor Trump screwed? It came out during the campaign. They’re a small business. They can’t spend 5 years suing Donald Trump. They won’t stay in business. They “won” – they got some kind of mechanics lien on one of his shitty properties, but I doubt they’ll ever get paid. They have to get paid, and rather quickly, or it just isn’t worth it to them.
These girls – they’re now all grown women- were amazingly persistent.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He didn’t inhale either.
sdhays
@Adam L Silverman: Indeed. My assumption, though, is if there actually as any “there” there with Bill Clinton, there’s no way Acosta would have allowed that to stay under wraps.
Cacti
I’m sure that somehow, the librul NYT will make this Bill and Hillary Clinton’s fault.
Ladyraxterinok
@Gvg: Wasn’t Lewinski coached by L Goldberg, who hated dems? Arranged for her to frequently cross paths with Bill? Told her to save dress, etc?
Mnemosyne
@sdhays:
IMHO, it’s one of two things:
(A) The Clinton allegations are so thin that Republicans know they’ll only fly in the QAnon fever swamps and will never be accepted by the general public, including most Republican voters.
(B) There is some meat to the Clinton allegations, but they’re so entwined with the more dangerous Trump allegations that they don’t dare try to use them as a weapon because it would bring Trump down, too.
joel hanes
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
He didn’t inhale
He couldn’t inhale.
WJC has asthma — always has had.
That’s why “I didn’t inhale” was one of his jokes: he actually didn’t inhale, but everyone assumed he was lying.
joel hanes
@Ladyraxterinok:
Yes. And betrayed by Linda Tripp, whom she thought was her friend.
seaboogie
@Adam L Silverman: Yep. I appreciate your dispassionate analysis of how things tend to go.
Also, there are so many good men here on BJ. If all y’all can understand what it is like for women to fear and be on the alert for predatious men, and call out predatory behaviors in your fellow menfolk, that is helpful.
I still remember being very young and walking home one long dark block from the High Park subway station in Toronto, keys grasped firmly and protruding between my fingers in a fist if in the event I confronted the High Park rapist and killer. At one point I was reading a book on the open public lawns by the tennis courts, and felt someone creeping through the bushes to spy on me or anyone else. Took a circuitous route home and called the cops. They met me and drove me through the park in search of him, and I saw where the one woman was raped and killed – so close to families enjoying a day in the park – and how easy that would have been to do.
There will always be a dark underside to humanity, and also men need to rise up and say this is not what a man does – this is not how a man who is a credit to his gender behaves. Women can walk and protest and out the bad guys, but we also need you good men to intercede and teach what is acceptable male behavior, so we women do not have to spend our lives in fear of being raped or killed.
Origuy
@Another Scott: Not just any drag queens, those were the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. They were founded in 1979 in SF.
jl
I predict that the names Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie, and Joe Biden will not appear in the docs. So, who cares? Will Barack Obama’s name appear?
How long can the GOP use the Clintons as bogey people to bash Democrats? How long can that be a thing? Serious question. The GOP has absurdly used them as semi-legendary folkloric cartoon villains for decades. For the wingnuts, they’re like krampus, or the grinch.
Why would anyone care except QAnon lunatics.
PeakVT
From the DB article, it sounds like Epstein’s “charities” are either incompetent or highly suspect. Were they fronts?
Cacti
@jl:
Every serious Dem candidate will be asked about it within the week.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
is it possible that after more than 25 years, we’re gonna start talking about Bubba’s li’l bubba again?
sdhays
@jl:
At least a generation after both Bill and Hillary are dead and Chelsea shuts herself up in a remote village in tropical Alaska.
Jay
@Kay:
Tradesmen Liens can be very powerful tools.
A local Lawyer stiffed me on a $32k reno job on a rental house, and offered me $10k instead. I walked away and filed a lien. Here, all I need to do to file is a copy of the contract, invoicing, and proof that work was done. ( it doesn’t have to be completed).
The lien attaches to title and the property cannot be transferred or refinanced with out the lien being discharged.
I get to attach any legal costs to the lien, can charge up to 32% interest a year, ( accrued monthly) and can borrow against the lien.
They tried to take me to arbitration, but that’s volentary, and rigged, so I passed.
They won’t take me to Court, because they will lose.
They are now trying to reach out for accomodation, because next September, they are up for refinancing. They now owe $110,000 on the lien debt on a house worth $270,000.
sdhays
@PeakVT: Wasn’t there some other supposedly rich guy whose charitable foundation was shut down recently? Name escapes me. Whatever happened to that guy?
J R in WV
My worst experience on a jury, ever, was a grand jury session here in Sw WV, because there were several molester to be indicted.
The worst was a toss up between the monster with photos of his daughter and a younger man who specialized in rape of young retarded girls in town, mostly because they couldn’t really describe what he did to them.
I was on two petit juries for capital murder cases, neither one was as bad as that one day of grand jury work. OMG it was horrible to see things you can’t unsee — you have to look at the evidence to be able to determine whether or not to hand up indictments.
No punishment is
sufficientadequate for those who attack children in my book!Chetan Murthy
@Jay: If only Shitler’s creditors could do that. Sigh.
Mary G
I have infinite respect and admiration for the victims and their attorneys for hanging in with dogged pursuit of making this human slug pay for his crimes. They probably were offered big money settlements to shut up and go away, nevertheless they persisted.
Also for reporter Julie Brown and everyone at the Herald.
But Bob Barr is shameless amoral fixer and I imagine he will slow walk letting the investigation go beyond Epstein and use his “Republican presidents are above the law” creed to keep Twitler, and probably Acosta out of the story using the massive disinformation campaign that Adam describes.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Baud: Trump likes them on the young side, just saying.
PeakVT
@jl: The media will care because it has a colossal double-standard: Dems are expected to be uniformly good, Repukes are expected to be comprehensively bad. Deviations are punished and rewarded respectively.
Juice Box
@jl: The GOP used Carter as an example of the certain failure of Democratic presidents until the Obama administration.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@joel hanes: Yeah, I read Bill’s book too.
Spanky
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I have long suspected that’s what’s on the P tape. “P” does not stand for “pee”.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Juice Box: Wait, they stopped?
sukabi
@Kay: the massage parlor that Kraft was busted in also has a huge Maralago connection.
Juice Box
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Pretty much. Given the age demographic in the party, there’s a high percentage of dementia. Or maybe they just get themselves so spun up over HRC and AOC that they can’t be bothered with Carter.
Martin
@frosty: I’d say it’s on the light side, but certainly not immune.
Chetan Murthy
@Martin: I/T firms are notorious for sexual harrassment. Notorious.
Martin
@Chetan Murthy: Yeah, I was thinking more traditional engineering. Tech is a shitshow, no question.
Jay
Because everybody knows, when you are allegedly suffering from bleeding on the brain and neurological damage the approved treatment is to climb into a low pressure tube for 5 hours.
plato
The so called creamy layer is so creepy and sleazy. The rotten stench starts with the head.
hitchhiker
@Ladyraxterinok:
Lewinsky didn’t know Lucianne Goldberg, but Linda Tripp did. Tripp and Goldberg had been trying to do a book deal about the death of Vince Foster in 93 and 94, and they got to be friends. (Tripp worked at the White House, and Goldberg was a publisher’s agent.)
It was Goldberg’s idea to (illegally) tape Lewinsky when she told Tripp about her affair with Clinton, and Goldberg who thought it would be important to hang onto that dress.
Tripp is one of the most evil people in this story, imo. Clinton is because he knew that Lewinsky was persuading herself that they were in love and he let her think that while taking what he wanted from her. Goldberg is because she didn’t know any of these people but was happy to see them all destroyed. Starr is because he certainly knew these were not crimes against the nation but went for impeachment recommendations anyway. Kavanaugh is because he authored the soft porn creative non fiction known as the Starr Report.
But Linda Tripp is the worst, because she encouraged the young Lewinsky to confide in her and then taped her — and THEN turned the tapes over to the Starr attorneys. Lewinsky, to her credit, has never been in doubt about what a betrayal that was.
Raoul
Hmmm
Jay
https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/proud-boys-house-calls/?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Emma
@hitchhiker: I am amazed at the rewriting of Monica Lewinsky’s history. This is a young woman who told at least one friend that she was going to Washington “to get her presidential kneepads.” I remember that specifically because someone had to explain the colloquialism to me. Yes, she was young and she was manipulated that those two unholy w(b)itches, but she was not a sweet young Harlequin romance heroine either.
I do resent Clinton’s role because, dammit, he should have known that the ratf(u)ckers would be gunning for him. And he still couldn’t keep his pants zipped. I have always hoped that Hillary did brain him with that lamp, enough for stitches and an almighty headache.
patrick II
@Emma:
Neither Clinton nor Lewinsky had a lot to be proud of, but adventurous young women have affairs with powerful men sometimes. If that was all that happened, she would have eventually looked at the affair with regret — or not, but either way, it would have diminished with time and she would go on to do whatever she was going to do — be a career person, or get married and have kids, or whatever. The affair would have been a small part of her life. However, Republicans with a political agenda used her to get to the president and publicly humiliated her and sent her to therapy for years, not because of what she did, but because they could use what she did to embarrass the president.
Bill Clinton had a sexual affair with Lewinsky, the Republican party committed sexual abuse of Lewinsky.
Starfish
@frosty: You were saying?
The people who do not ask before they start talking about their polyamory as if they are explaining something that is either new or interesting are often engineers.
Gregory
This has the potential to expose a lot of powerful men in the US and elsewhere. Democrats, Republicans, politicians, businessmen, as well as other elites and/or notables. And, most likely as was the case with Ghislaine Maxwell, some women who enabled or covered up this crime spree as well.
Let justice be done though the heavens fall.
Another Scott
@Mary G: William, not Robert.
Robert is another, er, unsavory character.
Cheers,
Scott.
Searcher
@joel hanes: It just now occured to me the man smoked cigars, not cigarettes.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Spanky: You’re probably right since power does seem to corrupt. But I suspect asshole women in power will commit abuses of a different kind. Rape is much less likely.
Ruckus
@Kay:
I’ve owned two small businesses. The first was significantly bigger than the second and we had to sue a couple of times to get paid. Lost just over $20,000. on one and collected on the other. The one I lost on cost $5,000. just to lose. I understand about collecting on debts with bigger customers. One of the reasons that I got out of that when the getting was good.
On your second point. I lost money. I could have spent more money chasing money but at some point you cut your losses and move on, it’s just more profitable. For a big company or a fat cat like drumpf thinks he is, it’s almost a joke, “Hey look, I fucked another one!” That’s winning to him and his brethren, the real people cut our losses and hopefully learn something about trust, who too and who not too.
On your second point. Those women lost a lot more than I ever did out of my bank account. And the company that screwed me, they did that to a lot of vendors, because they were assholes. And it cost them, they are no longer in business. They were kind of a household name, now gone. Eventually they screwed enough people that no one would build tools for them and they were gone. But those women got figuratively and literally fucked. You can’t earn more of what they lost, it’s not a bank account. But to their attackers everything is about money, how to get more, how to buy stuff and people with it, how to be BMOC because of how much you’ve got, how to buy power to hold over people. Not everyone with money is like this but most seemingly are to some degree.
Ruckus
@jl:
They use the Clintons because they were a couple of political people on the other side they could demonize. And they were democrats from the south. That gave them an extra bit of seasoning in the mix. But mainly the Clintons were rising stars in the democratic party and shutting them down would seem like a huge deal to ratfuckers. And both of the Clintons were never apologetic about their politics because they didn’t need to be, while republicans have nothing to run on but hate. Their policies are horrible for economically normal people. Their ethics register at zero on any scale. The Clintons were the ideal hate recipients for the republican party. The Clintons are now history but there is an entire Clinton hate apparatus section of the republican party, they are one track minded people who haven’t been redirected to someone else to hate, primarily because the republican party is too busy trying to steal everything not tied down and a bunch of stuff that is.
wasabi gasp
Whether it turns out he was involved or not, the circling of the Clinton wagons here is a sad display of your collective yas qween brain rot.
Ted Mills
Maxwell, by the way, is the daughter of former newspaper magnate (and currently successful corpse) Robert Maxwell.
Ruckus
@wasabi gasp:
I would do that for anyone accused without any proof. And there seems to be no proof for Bill to be involved, other than he, a powerful person knew, Epstein at some level. If you have or know of any proof that he was more than a consenting adulterer, I’d like to know.
wasabi gasp
@Ruckus: It’s like you’re captioning your cat scan.
Tnwin
@Adam L Silverman: u
I’m ready. If Clinton’s guilty then he’s as big a scumbag as the others. Let him fry.