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They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

All hail the time of the bunny!

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Republicans do not pay their debts.

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Fucked Up & Bullshit Open Thread

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NBC News says that after Trump concludes his “social media summit” whine-fest with InfoWars-backed trolls and QAnon crackpots, he’s going to announce that he’ll add the citizenship question to the 2020 Census via executive order:

President Donald Trump is expected to announce on Thursday that he is taking executive action to add a citizenship question to the census, according to an administration official.

Trump tweeted that he will hold a press conference in the afternoon to discuss his latest efforts at including the citizenship question as part of the census.

He’ll probably get away with it too. Sorry to be pessimistic, but pessimistic is the new savvy. Open thread.

Reader Interactions

371Comments

  1. 1.

    the Conster

    Remember when everything Obama did the GOP called him a dictator? Where are they all now?

  2. 2.

    Another Scott

    TheHill:

    White House officials declined to discuss the content of the executive action, but said it may not be a full-blown executive order.

    Trump has hinted in recent days that he may use an executive order to force the inclusion of a citizenship question on census forms following the high court’s decision in late June.

    But any executive action taken by Trump is likely to be met with another round of legal challenges.

    […]

    It is not clear how the executive action would satisfy legal concerns and result in the addition of the question in a timely manner.

    Census Bureau officials have testified at trial that the printing process could be delayed until late October, but only “with exceptional effort and additional resources.”

    The battle over the census in two court cases is expected to drag on for weeks, if not months. Two separate federal judges have ruled in recent days that the Department of Justice cannot change lawyers as it seeks to appeal the case.

    The House is not going to give him more money to ruin the Census. It’s just not (IMHO) going to happen.

    Donnie has a very weak hand. He’ll probably try to keep this in the news, to keep his Minions happy and to try to depress responses to the Census, but he’s not going to win on this.

    Of course, we must continue to fight him every single day.

    Solidarity!!

    Just my $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  3. 3.

    Pete Mack

    I don;t believe we will be required to answer that question, by law, since the USSC said he didn’t have sufficient reason to include it–and lying is not such a reason.

  4. 4.

    the Conster

    @Another Scott:

    The effort into trashing Pelosi really needs to be directed at McConnell, and solely McConnell. Pressure needs to be put on the other GOPers too, like Romney who has absolutely nothing to lose by showing some spine. It’s truly amazing there isn’t a single *powerful* man in this country who has been anything more than utterly useless.

  5. 5.

    Mike in NC

    Trump concludes his “social media summit” whine-fest with InfoWars-backed trolls and QAnon crackpots

    Also, too, plenty of Russians must have been in attendance…

  6. 6.

    cmorenc

    @the Conster:

    Remember when everything Obama did the GOP called him a dictator? Where are they all now?

    Anyone in the GOP who isn’t enthusiastically on-board with Trump’s latter-day Mussolini mode are cowering with fear of Trump’s hard-core base. That’s why any objections from within the ranks to things that would be repulsively, outrageously objectionable in any civil society are spoken of in such muffled, elliptical terms as to hardly sound like objections at all.

  7. 7.

    the Conster

    @cmorenc:

    What explains Mitt Romney’s utter cowardice then? He’s in a safe seat where Trump isn’t as popular, and he could make himself a lone voice against all the craziness. It’s truly remarkable how much of their body parts they’ve handed over to this mob boss, in exchange for what?

  8. 8.

    waspuppet

    @the Conster: Cheering at the top of their lungs because an illiterate, senile game show host can literally do no wrong as long as he’s a racist, because they despise the United States and the ideas it was founded on.

    Oh, were you asking a rhetorical question?

  9. 9.

    Joe Falco

    @the Conster:
    Cheering the Thief-in-chief on while supporters are praising their Senseless Leader for doing everything in his power to own the libs.

  10. 10.

    Another Scott

    BlueVirginia:

    WARNER, KAINE BACK LEGISLATION TO PROTECT CENSUS

    ~ Bill would help ensure accuracy of census data ~

    WASHINGTON – U.S. Sens. Mark R. Warner and Tim Kaine (both D-VA) have joined Sen. Brian Schatz (D-HI) in cosponsoring legislation to protect the decennial census from partisan whims aimed at intimidating respondents and curbing participation. The Census Improving Data and Enhanced Accuracy (Census IDEA) Act will help safeguard the integrity of the 2020 census by ensuring that any proposed changes to the count are adequately studied and researched prior to being added to the questionnaire. This follows a United States Supreme Court decision on June 27 that blocked the Trump Administration from adding a citizenship question to the 2020 census, citing insufficient justification for adding the question.

    “The census is a critical undertaking in our democracy that helps determine the number of representatives and federal dollars given to states. Additionally, many businesses rely on census population data to decide where to open new stores, buy advertising, or deploy wireless broadband infrastructure. Therefore, it’s extremely important that we ensure the accuracy of the count and prevent it from being shaped by political motives,” said the Senators. “This bill will ensure that any additional question be presented with enough time for Congress to review its effects and help keep the census an independent tool for the American people.”

    Last year, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross proposed adding a question to the census that would ask respondents about their citizenship status, likely preventing individuals from responding and thus drastically undercounting people in many immigrant and Latino communities. The Census Bureau’s own estimates indicate that the inclusion of a citizenship question would prompt a 2.2 percent drop in census responses – including an 8 percent drop in participation by households with at least one non-citizen. Following the Supreme Court’s decision to block this question, the Justice Department moved to replace its team of lawyers on the case – a move that was also rejected yesterday by a federal judge who cited a lack of satisfactory reasons for the swap.

    In order to ensure the integrity of the census, the Census IDEA Act would:

    – Prevent last-minute operational changes that have not been properly researched, studied, and tested at least 3 years prior to the next decennial census date;
    – Ensure that subjects, types of information, and questions that have not been submitted to Congress according to existing law are not included;
    – Require biannual reports on the U.S. Census Bureau’s operation plan, including the status of its research and testing; a report on the agency’s operational plan 5 years prior to the next decennial census; and require that these reports be publicly available on the Bureau’s website;
    – Direct the U.S. Government Accountability Office to determine and report to Congress that the subjects, types of information, and questions on the decennial census have been researched, studied, and tested to the same degree as previous decennial censuses; and
    – Apply the provisions of this bill only to the decennial census, and not the mid-decade census or the American Community Survey.

    Sens. Warner and Kaine, who sponsored this bill last Congress, have opposed politically motivated efforts to change longstanding practices in asking about citizenship status and have advocated for robust funding for the 2020 census. Last month, Sen. Warner joined Sen. Schatz and 27 other Senators in calling for Secretary Ross to meet the administration’s previously set deadline of July 1 to begin printing materials for the 2020 Census.

    The Census IDEA Act has the support of the American Anthropological Association, American Civil Liberties Union, American Sociological Association, Asian Americans Advancing Justice, Coalition on Human Needs, Common Cause, Consortium of Social Science Associations, Japanese American Citizens League, NAACP LDF, NALEO Educational Fund, National Education Association, National Employment Law Project, National LGBTQ Task Force Action Fund, National Urban League, NETWORK Lobby for Catholic Social Justice, Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, Service Employees International Union, Society for Research in Child Development, and Union of Concerned Scientists.

    Other cosponsors of the Census IDEA Act include U.S. Sens. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI), Michael Bennet (D-CO), Sherrod Brown (D-OH), Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Ben Cardin (D-MD), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Catherine Cortez Masto (D-NV), Tammy Duckworth (D-IL), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Kamala Harris (D-CA), Angus King (I-ME), Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), Gary Peters (D-MI), Jack Reed (D-RI), Jacky Rosen (D-NV), Tina Smith (D-MN), Tom Udall (D-NM), and Chris Van Hollen (D-MD).

    It’s important for Democrats to make sure voters understand the importance of the Census and its integrity. Make Donnie and his Minions pay a price for their attempts to wreck it.

    Drip, drip, drip. And/or tick, tock…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  12. 12.

    Ruckus

    @the Conster:
    Two points.
    1. There isn’t a powerful man in the republican party, because they are all towing the party line and that party line is bullshit and straight out theft. And they know it, even if they refuse to believe it. Now you are going to say McConnell and you’d be right but he’s using his power to block everything, to retain that power to steal everything. IOW he’s no different than all the rest of them, he’s just in a position to do the blocking.
    2. Their utter uselessness is their strength. It’s what keeps them from being in any way positive for the country and only positive for the people they work for, the wealthy. What works for them is their single minded goal of stealing everything.

  13. 13.

    plato

    With the fucking DC court dismissing the emoluments clause cases against the corrupt thug, he is more emboldened to take his racism to the next level. Apartheid amurkkka is his goal.

  16. 16.

    chopper

    @Pete Mack:

    so they’ll include the question and put a tiny disclaimer, at the bottom, in tiny print, saying ‘this question doesn’t require your answer’. and they won’t put that disclaimer in in spanish.

  17. 17.

    J R in WV

    @Another Scott:

    I’m pretty sure there is already a legal requirement that census questions go through a defined procedure for being added to the forms, and it takes several years, which is one reason the new “citizenship” question is not being accepted by the courts.

    So a new law probably just duplicates existing regs, which is OK, but when these guys already walk over laws and constitutional requirements, what’s a new law going to do?

  19. 19.

    SFAW

    @Pete Mack:

    I don;t believe we will be required to answer that question, by law, since the USSC said he didn’t have sufficient reason to include it–and lying is not such a reason.

    It’s immaterial whether persons will be “required to answer,” because its primary purpose is to depress response from a particular demographic (or two), and citizens who know or are related to non-citizens will duck the census.

    And as far as the SCOTRWMF: unless Roberts suddenly decides to repudiate his Federalist Society membership (or whatever), he’ll eventually OK it.

  20. 20.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @the Conster: What explains Mitt Romney’s utter cowardice then?

    Tagg can’t ride that White Horse to the White House without the ten-toothed rube vote

    see also, George Pierce Bush, his daddy and his uncle

  21. 21.

    SFAW

    @J R in WV:

    but when these guys already walk over laws and constitutional requirements, what’s a new law going to do?

    I have zero, zip, nada, NO doubt that Chief Justice Roberts will send the Marshal of the Supreme Court to the White House to ensure that the laws are obeyed.

    I swear, I crack myself up sometimes.

  23. 23.

    Citizen Alan

    @Downpuppy:

    I am glad that George Romney (who could have been the best Republican President of my lifetime if Nixon’s people hadn’t slandered him out of the race) didn’t live to see how vile and amoral his son grew up to be.

  24. 24.

    kindness

    I don’t think an Executive Order trumps the Supreme Court. I think our institutions might save us despite the best efforts of Mitch McConnell.

  26. 26.

    satby

    @chopper: there are thousands of non-documented Irish, Polish, and Russian immigrants in this country. Don’t make the assumption that all non-documented immigrants are brown and Hispanic.

  27. 27.

    randy khan

    Apparently, Trump does not understand how injunctions work. You can’t just make them disappear by saying you’re going to do what was forbidden anyway. The plaintiffs will add Trump as a party to all of the cases before sunset and the injunctions will be extended to him.

  29. 29.

    satby

    @J R in WV:

    a new law probably just duplicates existing regs, which is OK, but when these guys already walk over laws and constitutional requirements, what’s a new law going to do?

    it makes the legislative intent crystal clear, forcing any court to abide by black letter law whether they agree or not.

  30. 30.

    BR

    There was literally a West Wing episode on manipulation of the census, and it had an important lesson for us — a reminder that the census has been manipulated since the very beginning with the 3/5 compromise. I think reminding people that *certain people* (the ancestors of today’s GOP) have been trying to use the census to steal political power and take it away from those who look different than them. This is important and moves the conversation away from “citizen” questions and towards long-standing efforts at stealing political power.

  31. 31.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I don’t think the question makes it to the census form because of legal challenges . I think Trumpov is throwing every damn thing out he can through the shit spraying fans to distract from the Epstein and Mueller issues. It’s going to get worse over the weekend. I wouldn’t be surprised if we do something against Iran this weekend. Chaos. He ‘s creating chaos.

  32. 32.

    Kay

    I listened to Right wing radio yesterday. Trump and the rest have sold this to them as a way to prevent (the imaginary) voter fraud. They believe this because the former Mayor of NYC- noun, verb, 9/11 himself- tells them it’s true.
    I think people are kidding themselves if they think these folks are going to accept the results of an election if Trump loses. No way. They all believe massive voter fraud elected Democrats in 2018. That’s how they rationalize GOP losses in conservative districts in CA- “the illegals” voted. This gets much, much uglier.

  34. 34.

    Kay

    The Trump Family themselves may not accept results. This is the best and most lucrative and luxe grift they have ever stumbled into. They hit the jackpot. No fucking way they’re leaving quietly. They haven’t followed a single rule their entire lives. The idea that they’ll suddenly become law abiding “because it’s important” is delusional. They’re less law abiding when it’s important. Like all criminals.

  35. 35.

    trollhattan

    @Mai Naem mobile:
    Yeah, it’s consistent with how he operates. In any case, he can tell his deplorables “Look what I did for you. At the end of the day the Democrat Party treasoned the question off of the census but I pulled out all the stops to try and make the census fair to Americans, believe me.”

  36. 36.

    Matt

    @the Conster:

    What explains Mitt Romney’s utter cowardice then?

    Have you considered that he might be lying when he meekly objects to President Baby Concentration Camps?

    The overwhelming takeaway from the last three years should be “yes, Republicans are human garbage fires devoid of morality who’d skullfuck their own mothers for a dollar”. Hell, most of them wouldn’t even need the dollar – just the promise that somebody else *wouldn’t* get a dollar.

  37. 37.

    jonas

    @the Conster: Well, just goes to show, they were never against tyrannical dictators per se, they just wanted him to be a Republican. Semper factio prae patria, the official motto of the GOP.

  40. 40.

    trollhattan

    @Kay:
    They never accepted Obama–“Show me the birth certificate!” They won’t accept whomever takes the oath of office two Januarys from now. Unless it’s Donny. And should that happen (he takes oaf of office) I don’t believe we’re sufficiently resilient to survive a second Trump term intact as a nation.

  42. 42.

    Citizen Alan

    @satby:

    No one in the Republican Party gives two shits about non-documented Irish, Polish, and Russian immigrants. Literally no one.

  43. 43.

    Eric

    @Kay: and while you cannot indict a sitting president (don’t agree) you can certainly indict an ex president

  47. 47.

    Kay

    @trollhattan:

    I never again want to hear how southerners are uniquely racist. Donald Trump and the majority of the rest of these people grew up not just in the north but in sophisticated cities or suburbs in the northeast where they had access to the best education money can buy. They’re stone cold racists, with Mayor Rudy leading the damn pack. Have you heard him? Pushing the voter fraud conspiracies?
    I hope he’s making a lot of money because he is reprehensible. I hope the paycheck is worth it to that ancient, leering ghoul.
    After they’re finished with this what happens? They go back to being fancy people who are accepted in decent society? Yes, yes, they do. It’s not just low standards. It’s NO standards.

  48. 48.

    burnspbesq

    @kindness:

    I don’t think an Executive Order trumps the Supreme Court.

    It doesn’t. But if push really comes to shove, the Marshals Service reports to Barr.

  49. 49.

    AnonPhenom

    He’ll probably get away with it too. Sorry to be pessimistic, but pessimistic is the new savvy.

    Oh, if only the Democrats controlled some aspect of our government and could hold Trump to account!
    (Nancy Pelosi = Mitch McConnell -political nads)

  50. 50.

    SFAW

    @Matt:

    “yes, Republicans are human garbage fires devoid of morality who’d skullfuck their own mothers for a dollar”.

    Gonna need a car with HUGE bumpers to put THAT on a bumper sticker.

    Would a very large billboard work for you? It does for me.

  53. 53.

    prostratedragon

    “a whiny little chaos agent who really hasn’t helped expand shit but […] own media profile. ”

    Is someone’s slip showing? I can think of people who are more closely and consequentially described thus, especially in the chaos part.

  54. 54.

    JPL

    @rikyrah: Although I don’t appreciate all that is unfolding, she along with a few others are prepared for hearings. Rather than bloviate they ask delving questions.

  55. 55.

    Villago Delenda Est

    So, he’s going to tell the Supreme Court to fuck off.

    Nancy, start the process. NOW.

  57. 57.

    PVDMichael

    Can’t wait til a future Democratic President adds a gun ownership questions to the 2030 census…. that’s all I got.

  58. 58.

    SFAW

    @rikyrah:

    Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) Tweeted:
    So the GOP 2020 pitch will be “went to court to take healthcare from 20+ million people, cut taxes for the super rich and big businesses, wrecked farms and ranches with tariffs, w/held money from 9/11 victims and gave the state control of women’s bodies … for the little guy?”

    Close. Their pitch will be “the Demon-rats tried doing all those things, but we prevented it!” And I’m sure the FTFTFNYT will give them cover.

  59. 59.

    rikyrah

    You know, I get tired of Chris Hayes giving them the White folks benefit of the doubt. Last night, he was mocking what he called “the conspiracy theorists ”

    Once again, trying to both sides bullshyt.
    The right wing conspiracies are nothing but lies.

    On our side, you get a string of these, and as I always say:

    Not? enough ? coincidences ?in?the? Western ?World?

    And suddenly, I am a conspiracy cook??
    Your Whiteness is showing, Chris.

    Cause NOBODY NON-WHITE would get this benefit of the doubt.??

    David Enrich (@davidenrich) Tweeted:
    Exclusive: @DeutscheBank had an extensive relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, lending him money and providing trading services — up until May 2019, when the bank cut him off. https://t.co/X61o52UKbz https://twitter.com/davidenrich/status/1149116131250266112?s=17

  61. 61.

    JPL

    Rumor has it that it’s an executive action, rather than order. I don’t entirely understand the difference so if someone wants to explain. They both have to go through the courts.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    Just so you know, public schools will get hammered with an undercount. They will feel it immediately. Real pain.
    Once again the sleazy, rich Trumpsters are harming brown children. The immediate brunt of this will fall on 2nd graders, because they won’t get an accurate share of federal funding for the schools they attend.

  63. 63.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @AnonPhenom: and we’re back to the “if Obama had any balls…” emo shrieking

    I have increasing doubts about Pelosis management of the house but people like you put me more firmly in her camp

  64. 64.

    The Moar You Know

    But if push really comes to shove, the Marshals Service reports to Barr.

    @burnspbesq: Convenient.

    Why isn’t the AG a civil service position? Having them be appointed by the winner of the latest election is begging for this kind of corruption.

  65. 65.

    burnspbesq

    @Kay:

    They all believe massive voter fraud elected Democrats in 2018. That’s how they rationalize GOP losses in conservative districts in CA

    Nope. That was us straight, God-fearing, upper-middle-class white folks belatedly realizing who would better serve our interests. Trump fucked us by taking away the SALT deduction. We fucked back.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    I just think he’s weak, honestly. I always get the sense listening to him that there is someone he is trying to impress, someone who is NOT a regular member of his audience. He wants or needs something from conservatives and Lefties- validation that he’s “serious”.
    I mean Maddow is annoying with her elaborate 5000 word build up to whatever she wants to say but at least I don’t feel like she has no confidence in what she believes.

  73. 73.

    SFAW

    @AnonPhenom:
    Thanks for sharing.

    ETA: You forgot “both sides are the same!!!” Because most of us couldn’t figure out your “point” without you stating that.

  74. 74.

    the Conster

    @burnspbesq:

    They’re ratfuckers. That’s all. AOC is the worst of them, though – always popping up to shit stir against Pelosi when DT gets the most scrutiny. You never hear from the other freshman WOC who are getting the job done.

  75. 75.

    The Moar You Know

    I have increasing doubts about Pelosis management of the house but people like you put me more firmly in her camp

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why doubts? The votes are not there. They’re not there for conviction, of course, and won’t be, but they’re not even CLOSE to being there for impeachment either. Less than half of the Dems are on board. If Dem voters haven’t pressured those legislators – and I see no organized movement to do so – then Dems have no business asking Pelosi to produce a result that she doesn’t have the votes for.

    As for the chaos troll, just dump it in the pie filter.

  77. 77.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I think he’s a smart young white male progressive who doesn’t want to be excluded from young white male progressive social circles, which ironically includes a lot of young white male libertarian-leaning conservatives.

  79. 79.

    Brachiator

    @cmorenc:

    Anyone in the GOP who isn’t enthusiastically on-board with Trump’s latter-day Mussolini mode…

    That’s what, two or three people?

  81. 81.

    rp

    I’ve always been in the trust Pelosi and screw the critics camp, but I’m starting to lose patience with her. I think she’s very, very smart, but she isn’t infallible.

  82. 82.

    Elizabelle

    Sent this comment to JPL on the previous thread:

    Do you ever consider how much of the “Pelosi is a douche” coverage is driven by misogyny and unrealistic expectations (fed perhaps, by some well-placed barbs by those who actually fear Pelosi and her effectiveness)? Don’t discount naivete or stupidity, either. They’re tearing down another powerful woman.

    Do not discount how many people would like to see Pelosi face-splat over impeachment too. (And who might that benefit?) Premature is not how you come at “the king.” Pelosi is a “whites of their eyes” and count the votes type.

  83. 83.

    SFAW

    @Brachiator:

    That’s what, two or three people?

    My, aren’t YOU an optimistic person.

    ETA: In other words: did they import two or three in the last few days?

  86. 86.

    Betty Cracker

    I don’t agree with everything AOC says and does, but she’s right about many things. Here’s AOC being right about Democratic Party messaging in The New Yorker interview yesterday:

    We don’t know how to talk about our own issues in ways that I think are convincing, so we fall into Republican frames all the time. And we’re too often on the defense, we’re too often afraid of our own values and sticking up for them. And I feel like we run away from our convictions too much. And so one of the things that I wanted to do was to hold a strong line, and redefine our values, and remind people that I think what we need to be doing right now is coming home as a party. I don’t think we should be afraid of being the party of F.D.R. I don’t think we should be afraid of being the party of working people. And it feels to me that at some point we did start becoming afraid of those things.

    I’m sure those of y’all who wish AOC would shut up will find a way to pick that statement apart — #NotAllDems! — but similar sentiments have been posted here for years, and they’re not wrong. One reasons Republicans manage to keep a large voting bloc together even though their policies are terrible is branding. They’re pretty good at it. Us? Not so much.

  87. 87.

    Walker

    @Kay:

    I grew up in rural North Carolina (a town that is still the farming hub for the area). My upstate NY neighbors are WAY more racist.

  88. 88.

    SFAW

    @AnonPhenom:

    I’m sure you think that comment is witty, snarky, and burnishes your “cred,” all wrapped into one. So glad I can bask in the glow of your … something.

  89. 89.

    Brachiator

    Donald Trump has invited personalities from across the right-wing internet to the White House on Thursday for a “Social Media Summit,” but the event is causing his administration headaches even before it begins.

    So far, the summit has stirred up resentments among pro-Trump personalities who were never invited to the party, and one invitee has been disinvited over an anti-Semitic cartoon—raising questions for the White House about why he was invited in the first place.

    The White House hasn’t released a public list of attendees for the Thursday afternoon event, but a number of pro-Trump personalities have posted invitations on Twitter. They include Ali Alexander, a right-wing operative pushing a smear that Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Kamala Harris (CA) isn’t really “an American Black,” a pro-Trump “memesmith” who goes by the screenname “@CarpeDonktum,” and blogger Jim Hoft, whose Gateway Pundit blog frequently promotes hoaxes.

    The invitee list also includes more traditional White House visitors, including Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), Sen. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN), and representatives from campus conservative group Turning Point USA and conservative YouTube channel PragerU. In an Instagram post, Turning Point executive Benny Johnson promised to use the conference to give Trump “dank meme ideas.”

    Neither Facebook or Twitter are reportedly attending the summit, suggesting that the event will mainly feature conservative allegations that the social media giants are biased against them.

    Wow. The first news story I looked at just mentioned a social media summit. I didn’t realize this meant an assortment of mainly right wing nuts.

    Trump just naturally goes for low life crackpots. He’s proud of his elitist pedigree, but loves stupid trash.

  90. 90.

    Immanentize

    @burnspbesq:

    the Marshals Service reports to Barr.

    Wrong — the Marshals Service is part of the Judiciary and has been since the first Judiciary act of 1789:

    the Judiciary Act of September 24, 1789 , , , provided a charter for the federal judicial system by specifying the jurisdiction and powers of the district and circuit courts, and the qualifications and authority of federal judges, district attorneys, court clerks, U.S. Marshals, and Deputy Marshals.

  91. 91.

    rikyrah

    I wrote last night that this is what I couldn’t get past.
    A guy with a HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA getting a position at one of THE elite private schools in not only NYC, but the U S A?

    And , even back then…it was THE SCHOOL to go to. This was pre-diversity. This was even pre-new money.
    Back then?
    Wasn’t nothing but OLD OLD Money allowed into Dalton.

    And…don’t forget…Daddy Barr was forced to resign A YEAR LATER???

    I am waiting for the Dalton victims to come forward.

    Positively Fourth World (@UOJim) Tweeted:
    The next frontier for investigative reporters on the Epstein beat has to be the hiring by Dalton. What combination of white privilege, personal charm and whatever else got. 20-year-old with no degree hired at a school like that? https://t.co/nvJv8qQN79 https://twitter.com/UOJim/status/1149318240163831809?s=17

  94. 94.

    Another Scott

    @chopper: brown ones Democratic-leaning ones.

    HTH.

    (Recall that they don’t want college students to vote (college IDs aren’t good enough), etc., etc.) It’s all about keeping political power by tilting the playing field – racism is merely one of many horrible tactics they are using to try to achieve that aim.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  95. 95.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t always agree with AOC’s take on things, but the thing I really do like about her is that she doesn’t buy in to the cult of the savvy. She isn’t a pessimist. Perhaps a few people could take a lesson from her.

  97. 97.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    Just watched a truly horrific video of a little girl describe how Trump raped her when she was 13. It was sickening, it literally made me want to vomit.

  98. 98.

    the Conster

    @Betty Cracker:

    Sorry, but she’s from a deep blue district who couldn’t name the three branches of government and hasn’t accomplished anything. FDR passed the New Deal by selling out blacks and women, and interred the Japanese, and the white *working people* left the party for Reagan after LBJ signed the CRA and VRA. Did she mention that the reason the ACA is in such trouble is because it’s for everybody and not just white people?

  100. 100.

    the Conster

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Has she opened and staffed her district office yet? I heard that someone from the State Assembly is fielding her constituent calls.

  101. 101.

    Sister Golden Bear

    In today’s edition of “watching my rights taken away in real time,” to no one’s surprise:

    GLAAD has published a report on the people on the State Department’s so-called “Natural Law” commission, which formally launched earlier this week. As you’d expect, all of them are viciously anti-LGBT….

    As I reported last month, the commission is reportedly the brainchild of NOM founder Robert George. As you may recall, after the Supreme Court’s Obergefell ruling, George called for “all federal and state officeholders in the United States” to defy the decision.

    Robert George is also the author of 2009’s Manhattan Declaration, which calls for Christians to engage in civil disobedience against all LGBT rights laws.

    https://www.joemygod.com/2019/07/trumps-natural-law-commission-members-are-all-anti-lgbt-one-calls-legalizing-gay-sex-dangerous/

    Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Monday announcement the new panel to “revisit the most basic of questions — what does it mean to say, or claim, that something is in fact a human right?” “Natural law” proponents are usually anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ activists — arguing that protections for others are unnatural rights.

    https://www.joemygod.com/2019/07/state-department-unveils-natural-law-commission/

  102. 102.

    Brachiator

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m sure those of y’all who wish AOC would shut up will find a way to pick that statement apart …

    I pretty much endorse most of what AOC has to say, and also wish that the Democratic Party leadership would find a better way to deal with her, especially since she has been singled out by Fox News and right wing nut jobs as an enemy of the white peoples.

    One reasons Republicans manage to keep a large voting bloc together even though their policies are terrible is branding. They’re pretty good at it. Us?

    That, and lies, misrepresentations and distortions, and a single minded focus on gaining and wielding power no matter what, even if it harms the nation.

  103. 103.

    the Conster

    @JPL:

    She’s the last grown up left standing between us and the end so yeah, let’s all go kneecap her. She was going to retire if Hillary was elected. If you don’t think she’d rather be enjoying her life in CA rather than tangling with the monster in chief and a hysterical mob of twitter nitwits, I have a bridge to sell you.

  104. 104.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @the Conster: I have no fucking idea. It also has fuck all to do with my point.

    @JPL: You don’t think that everyone else here fears for the country as well?

    Edited.

  105. 105.

    germy

    I think Harris disagrees about AOC being a chaos agent.

    Too many people come out of the criminal justice system only to face additional barriers to transitioning back into their community.That's why I'm proud to introduce a bill today with @AOC to ensure people with criminal records have access to safe and affordable housing.— Kamala Harris (@SenKamalaHarris) July 10, 2019

  107. 107.

    Kay

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    That’s the final rung, right? That’s when we hit bottom. If that is credible- and I haven’t watched it so I don’t know- and they continue to support him. Then there’s no low low enough and he was right when he judged our character and said he could shoot someone in front of us and we wouldn’t care. His incredibly cynical and nasty view of Americans as people who are as cruel and petty and mean-spirited as he is was correct. We are as bad as he is.

  108. 108.

    Brachiator

    @the Conster:

    Sorry, but she’s from a deep blue district who couldn’t name the three branches of government and hasn’t accomplished anything. FDR passed the New Deal by selling out blacks and women, and interred the Japanese, and the white *working people* left the party for Reagan after LBJ signed the CRA and VRA

    So, apart from this jaundiced jaunt through history, what’s your point?

    ETA. From your other post, are we supposed to get from this to a validation of Pelosi?

  111. 111.

    Kelly

    Not fucked up and bullshit:
    Our cat Phoebe woke us up at dawn as usual. She spent the previous 2 nights at the vet on IV antibiotics after developing a fever of 106.5 and tenderness around her intestines. We don’t have a conclusive diagnosis of how the infection started but we suspect her fondness for scratching and chewing up foam. The water heater sits on a block of styrofoam which she has tore up and we found pieces of a foam earplug in the litter box. House has been thoroughly cleaned and a latch installed on the water heater closet.
    She right as rain now.

  114. 114.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I don’t feel like I ask a lot from entertainers but I do expect them not to be needy :)

    What does he want? I don’t know- but something. It’s not my problem. Validate yourself, buddy. Decide.

  115. 115.

    the Conster

    @Brachiator:

    I’m not taking history lessons or any other kind of lesson about Democrats or what they should say and do from a nitwit who spends all of her time on twitter being a self-promoting tool of Putin. If you’re working against Democrats at this point in time, especially given what we know, you’re working for Putin. The only question is whether it’s for free.

  117. 117.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Have you ever been talking to someone and it is clear they are actually addressing someone else in hearing range? That they are saying something to you to impress another person who is there in the room, so really it doesn’t matter what you say back? That’s what he does, except to his guests and audience.

  118. 118.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @the Conster: Apparently a lot of people do or else she is showing up in the news a lot for no reason. I praised her for one thing, her lack of pessimism. Is this really the direction in which you want to aim your fire?

  124. 124.

    the Conster

    @rp:

    Does she have the votes to open an impeachment inquiry? Who will appear to testify when the WH is stonewalling?

  125. 125.

    Brachiator

    @Baud:

    The Trump administration on Thursday scrapped one of its most ambitious proposals for lowering prescription medicine prices, backing down from a policy that would have required health insurers to pass on billions of dollars in rebates they receive from drugmakers to Medicare patients

    Interesting. The administration doesn’t seem to know what it is doing. Again.

  126. 126.

    who is

    @AliceBlue:

    Between not being available to her constituents and the Amazon deal that pissed off a lot of her constituents, she’s polling poorly in her own district from what I understand.

    I will never forgive her for campaigning against Sharice Davids with that old fraud Wilmer. Unlike AOC, Davids, McBath, Underwood and Haaland are legislating and doing constituent service, but they’re not extremely online self-aggrandizing so they don’t get the love they should be getting. To say nothing about Katie Porter WHO IS AWESOME.

  127. 127.

    the Conster

    @AliceBlue:

    Between not being available to her constituents and the Amazon deal that pissed off a lot of her constituents, she’s polling poorly in her own district from what I understand.

    I will never forgive her for campaigning against Sharice Davids with that old fraud Wilmer. Unlike AOC, Davids, McBath, Underwood and Haaland are legislating and doing constituent service, but they’re not extremely online self-aggrandizing so they don’t get the love they should be getting. To say nothing about Katie Porter WHO IS AWESOME.

  130. 130.

    Kay

    American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten is suing U.S. Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, arguing that she has “done nothing to remedy the gross mismanagement” of a federal loan forgiveness program.
    The lawsuit, filed today in federal court, represents eight AFT members who say they were unable to receive loan forgiveness due to administrative errors and inaccurate information provided by loan servicers.

    Bravo. It’s about time. It’s outrageous that they renege on this. They relied on this promise of loan forgiveness. To just fuck with them for years and not make good on it shouldn’t be permitted.
    People made specific, life-altering decisions based on this promise. Those decisions can’t be undone – it’s too late. The government needs to make good on their end of the deal.

  131. 131.

    Chyron HR

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I praised her for one thing, her lack of pessimism.

    I guess it’s pretty easy to be “optimistic” when you know you get to blame the Neoliberal Shitlib Corporatist Establishment if you fail.

  134. 134.

    satby

    A significant percentage of you seem to be wishing for a leftist authoritarian to counter the right-wing authoritarianism.

  137. 137.

    matt

    @satby: What we really need are a bunch of self-conflicted Democrats who are afraid of their own shadows and unable to articulate their values to counter right wing authoritarianism.

  139. 139.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @The Moar You Know: it’s not optimal, but an impeachment inquiry doesn’t necessarily lead to an impeachment vote. I know that’s something of a split hair, but the fact that trump and the executive branch are officially and unofficially seeking to impede/intimidate witnesses makes me think that a formal inquiry needs to happen. IANAL, but L’s say that formal committee would have greater power to subpoena, to investigate (edited), be more persuasive before the courts. There’s no guarantee it will work, it’s a political risk, and I don’t know what it will/would take to wake up the lump of voters who don’t like trump but think impeachment is ‘going too far’, but trump takes everything he gets away with as permission to go further. My fondest hope is that NP is waiting for the 2020 election to get closer so that formal inquiries don’t fall prey to the “old news” bias of the low-info voter, but trump will just do more and more damage in a hundred different ways while we wait

    And do. Not. Give. Interviews. To Maureen. Fucking. Dowd. If she asks you what time it is, pretend you didn’t hear and you’re late to catch a bus.

  140. 140.

    the Conster

    @satby:

    Exactly. The irony being that Pelosi is preserving the rule of law by getting the courts to weigh in on the Dem side of the scale, and upholding their Article I oversight powers WITHOUT CALLING IT IMPEACHMENT. If the House has to call something impeachment in order to conduct oversight of the executive branch, the executive branch will never comply with an oversight request ever again. The courts move slow, but they’re necessary to have on our side in this fight. She hired Douglas Letter for this very reason.

  141. 141.

    jl

    I’m curious about the mechanics of how Trump scheme will work. The last I read a news report about it, the lawful Census forms, without the bogus and dishonest and poorly designed citizenship question, are being printed. The last bit of babble I heard from Trump on a youtube clip was that he was going to let the lawful Census forms be printed up and his administration would try to get some addendum added later, like, I dunno, print up some post-it notes with the question typed up on them to slap on the end.

    If that is the case, my guess is that some underling who doesn’t want to get thrown under the bus when Trumpster incompetence blows up persuaded him that this approach was the best way forward.

    Whether we get lawful forms printed up is a fact on the ground that is important to watch.
    Also important to watch Roberts’ position on two issues. One, will he be willing to acquiesce in the Trumpsters forging ahead without even an attempt (so far) to meet the very meager requirement that the SCOTUS majority set for him, which is to provide a pretext for including the question that is not laughable. Two, will the SCOTUS defer to an arbitrary executive order that essentially tells the SCOTUS to go to hell (even Jackson saw reason to not go there and use some finesse when he defied the SCOTUS ruling on the Five Civilized Tribes removal). I read a troubling report that earlier in his career, Roberts argued that the executive could do that, but using some arcane legal babble about standing and legal process that i don’t understand.

    Anyway, it will be harder to mess with the Census if lawful forms are printed, and easier to stop some slap-on add-on forms that Trump wants to put in later.

  142. 142.

    Gin & Tonic

    @the Conster: She is quite popular with at least two young, well-educated New Yorkers who may have lived under my roof at one point. Anecdata, I know.

    Twitter is not real life, nor is it the House of Representatives, but if she engages people who might otherwise be inclined to say “Democrats all suck” then it’s not all bad.

  144. 144.

    Barbara

    @the Conster: How is any of that relevant? Would we be better off without SS? Would the constituents in your district be able to pass that test? This just seems a little unhinged.

  147. 147.

    jl

    @the Conster: ” Has she opened and staffed her district office yet? ”

    Yes. Takes ten seconds to check. Why don’t you call her DC or district office and give her a piece of your mind?

  148. 148.

    Barbara

    @the Conster: I edited. “she’s from a deep blue district who couldn’t name the three branches of government and hasn’t accomplished anything.” Because if you are referring to her personally, that is cray cray.

  149. 149.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I’m an AOC skeptic mostly because of her association with Wilmer and the “Justice Dems”, and bullshit like encouraging the Sunrise Whatevers to do a sit-in in Nancy Pelosi’s office (fercrissakes), but yesterday she turned in what people who know more about the Fed than I say was a very impressive performance in a hearing. This isn’t the first time she’s done her homework, prepared her questions, and didn’t put on a show from the cameras.

    And while I think that Nancy Pelosi’s career and national role and responsibilities give her more credibility than the Frosh who’s really good on twitter, and I sympathize if she’s irritated, she hasn’t handled the last couple of weeks well. You can put votes and factions in perspective without being quite so dismissive, and– again– no fucking MoDo. Ever.

  153. 153.

    jl

    @Baud: I take the comments here very seriously, so I know for a fact that Pelosi is an infallible political genius of world historical proportions and also a corrupt old incompetent fool who is a flunky to the big money donations that give her influence. AOC is the new infallible political genius of world historical proportions and also a spoiled snot nosed punk who can’t even name the three branches of government, and still has no district office because she doesn’t give a shit about her constituents..

    You learn so much on this miserable lefty almost top 10,000 blog.

  154. 154.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: I’d like to see a conversation between Michelle Goldberg and one or two of the “moderate” newbies who are said to be afraid of impeachment and the more progressive wing in general. We probably wouldn’t get a fashion report, but we could live with that

  155. 155.

    the Conster

    @rp:

    Why don’t you read about Watergate and the work of the Select Committee and the length of time that took, and how it turned into an impeachment inquiry. You don’t just call something an impeachment inquiry, without it being an impeachment. Nothing would be worse than having a failed impeachment not because it failed in the Senate, but because it failed in the House because the votes weren’t there.

  159. 159.

    Another Scott

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Both Houses of Congress are on vacation from August 5 through September 6. It’s hard to imagine any impeachment-type stuff happening before early September. (And with the debt ceiling, FY20 budget, etc., etc., it may later than that before it really gets spun-up.)

    People need to impress-upon the fence sitters and no-impeachment types when they’re home in their districts that impeachment inquiries need to start. It’s not going to happen until people do so.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  162. 162.

    Mo MacArbie

    So, how’s that bonded pair of kittens named Nancy and Alexandria from a few threads ago coming along? We need to see them playing together.

  163. 163.

    trollhattan

    @Betty Cracker:
    I was skeptical mainly due to the premature fawning over her between election and taking office. Since then, in what she’s done and from her many appearances before the cameras, I find her surprisingly effective for a freshman in her first half year, tough as nails and graceful versus the white-hot hatred directed her way, and the sort of person I’d like to see become the Dem establishment over the next decade.

  164. 164.

    cain

    @Betty Cracker:
    Thank you. I have no idea where all this anti-AOC stuff comes from. I don’t agree. AOC says things that should be said. Also to expect a massive amount of legislation from a freshman representative on the job for 6 months seems rather harsh and a terrible attack vector.
    It’s sad when we turn tribal as well. Just like some of you, expressing your doubts about Pelosi, she too is losing patience. Stirring shit up is not a bad idea because it keeps Democrats engaged and continues to pressure Pelosi, although I’d like to see that move to Schumer as well who as far as I can tell does a great job being a statue.
    That all said, I think AOC’s tweet whining about Pelosi and not getting special treatment deserves the ridicule and contempt it deserved. She’ll learn.

  170. 170.

    Matt McIrvin

    Huge anti-Pelosi rage going down on Twitter, some from people regretting opposing the effort to depose her as Speaker and completely forgetting that that was not, say, Ilhan Omar, it was Seth Freaking Moulton and the right-wing Democrats who are currently the people holding the party back from doing anything.

  171. 171.

    MCA1

    @chopper: No, I think they want to undercount them all, because they’re concentrated in blue areas, and undercounting residents in said areas means less appropriations (which punishes Democratic voters, just like the SALT deduction caps did in the tax scam bill) and less representatives (which further entrenches their undemocratic disproportionate minority control of federal elected seats).

  172. 172.

    TenguPhule

    @the Conster:

    Remember when everything Obama did the GOP called him a dictator? Where are they all now?

    Buying brown shirts in bulk.

  173. 173.

    the Conster

    @cain:

    The anti-AOC stuff is coming from my understanding that the Justice Democrats are determined to go to war with Democrats and not Republicans. If you have a problem with that, just use your scroll button.

  175. 175.

    TenguPhule

    @randy khan:

    You can’t just make them disappear by saying you’re going to do what was forbidden anyway.

    I’m sorry, have you not been paying attention to the last 3 years?

  176. 176.

    Betty Cracker

    @the Conster: Porque no los dos? IMO, it’ll take a range of approaches to move this big-ass, diverse country in a better direction.

  177. 177.

    jl

    @TenguPhule: Whatever you assume, if the lawful Census forms are printed up without a poorly designed citizenship question that was added illegally, there are more ways to stop it. So, not sure why total pessimism is warranted all the time on every issue.

  178. 178.

    MCA1

    @Walker: I was in upstate NY (first time) a couple weeks ago, and was quite surprised by the number of MAGA banners and treason in defense of slavery battle flags. Every time I saw one I thought “I sure am glad you’re more than cancelled out by the 20M people in metro NYC.”

  179. 179.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    No fucking way they’re leaving quietly. They haven’t followed a single rule their entire lives. The idea that they’ll suddenly become law abiding “because it’s important” is delusional. They’re less law abiding when it’s important. Like all criminals.

    There’s a Babylon 5 Quote I’ve used before for this.

    I do hope I live long enough to wave.

  180. 180.

    germy

    As a prosecutor Acosta was supposed to vindicate young trafficking victims; instead he violated their trust and brushed their evidence aside to protect their abuser. Acosta’s Epstein coverup is unconscionable and indefensible. He MUST resign. #AcostaResign https://t.co/Uboc7pV7jG— Nancy Pelosi (@TeamPelosi) July 10, 2019

    You're the Speaker of the House of Representatives. If you think a Cabinet officer has disgraced himself and needs to be removed from office, then use the House's powers of impeachment, not a worthless internet petition. https://t.co/BYCIQcPyy8— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) July 10, 2019

  181. 181.

    the Conster

    @Betty Cracker:

    Agreed, but attacking the party that isn’t in power seems like a terrible way to go, and attacking another WOC like Sharice Davids who had a really good shot at flipping a red seat blue seems like really poor judgment, or malicious intent.

  182. 182.

    Bill Arnold

    @AnonPhenom:

    Oh, if only the Democrats controlled some aspect of our government and could hold Trump to account!
    (Nancy Pelosi = Mitch McConnell -political nads)

    Wield (or plausibly threaten to) the “Government Shutdown” big stick?
    Mind you, they got away with a big fat OK for obscene partisan gerrymandering. The census question is small potatoes relative to that (excepting the possibility that citizenship details end up being used for other purposes).

  185. 185.

    MomSense

    @cain:

    For the most part I agree with the Conster. I think AOC is problematic. I also think she has potential but not if she doesn’t find a better mentor than Wilmer. I was actually happy that Pelosi said what she did. Underwood, Porter Harland, Davids are all far more effective MOC and they don’t attack Dems.

  186. 186.

    boatboy_srq

    @Kay: Always fascinates me how the same people who perpetually whinge about being an oppressed religulous minority can simultaneously assume that they are the majority of voters.

  187. 187.

    TenguPhule

    @Betty Cracker:

    One reasons Republicans manage to keep a large voting bloc together even though their policies are terrible is branding. They’re pretty good at it. Us? Not so much.

    I mean, fuck, the House and Senate Democrats couldn’t unite over FUCKING CONCENTRATION CAMPS. Which says really bad things about the quality of almost half the elected Democrats in the House and three quarters of those in the Senate.

  189. 189.

    TenguPhule

    @Brachiator:

    I didn’t realize this meant an assortment of mainly right wing nuts.

    I think “Donald Trump invited” was supposed to be the tipoff.

  190. 190.

    hueyplong

    I am usually skeptical of an aggressively insisted upon fragging of Democrats as the essential first step toward beating Republicans.

    Maybe it’s because I’m so old I can dimly recall some 2016 rat fucking.

  191. 191.

    jl

    Just a note from stats world, there is a whole, very well developed, and well validated, and quite reliable, research field on questionnaire and question design in statistics. It is quite easy to intentionally or unintentionally get the results you want, or get garbage, through poorly designed survey and census questionnaire design.

    The Census already collects annual information on rates of citizenship status in subsamples of the population. You can fool around with this link to make tables of counts and rates of citizens for states, census places, and congressional districts, that is more than adequate for legitimate government purposes.
    https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/nav/jsf/pages/index.xhtml

    And finally, the reactionaries statements on what the census should be for is historically inaccurate and self-contradictory. When the Census wants info on housing, socioeconomic indicators, then they scream about how the Constitution and the Founders just wanted it to count persons (dammitall!) and that is all the info anyone is required to offer, even though the exact opposite it true, and all those commie questions about health and housing started being added between 1810 and 1830. But funny that when it comes to schemes to cheat people and congressional districts out of their lawful and Constitutional representation, asking about citizenship in the decennial census is a no-brainer.

    And finally there is a scheme afoot in the reactionary sections of the judiciary, and by the GOP, to turn the meaning of ‘persons’ in the Constitution into ‘registered voters’ in order to favor whites who will vote for the GOP.

    Would be nice to hear these things mentioned in our failed corporate media news experiment, but we get babble by political hacks and operatives, directed by know-nothing fraudulent news actors.

  193. 193.

    TenguPhule

    @AliceBlue:

    I read a while back that they’ve been calling Gillibrand’s office.

    “sorry, busy running a vanity show for my own personal political future. Leave a message after the beep, don’t expect a response.”

  194. 194.

    the Conster

    @hueyplong:

    There are millions and millions to be made by ratfucking Dems on left and right, lots of it originating in rubles.

  195. 195.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @TenguPhule: If the recent vote was really a referendum on concentration camps, then people like Cummings, Schiff, and Davids (who is being held up in this thread as a Dem who can turn red seats blue) among others failed a big test. Do you really think that is likely? If not, then the vote wasn’t what you make it out to be.

  196. 196.

    TenguPhule

    @Kay:

    The government needs to make good on their end of the deal.

    /Looks at Trump’s record on keeping his end of the deal.

    Face it, those people are fucked. The courts are not going to save them.

  197. 197.

    Betty Cracker

    @Omnes Omnibus: If you want the party to move left, you really do need that energy. It’s not just AOC who is rocking the boat: Pressley, Omar and Tlaib are playing a similar role and also have their detractors.

  198. 198.

    Kathleen

    @Betty Cracker: There is truth in what she said. Then she turned around and bashed party as cowardly. Maybe she could offer to help Dems with messaging instead of just dumping on them. I’ve not seen any positive messages from her about the party. She could easily model behavior she wants to see in Dems.

  199. 199.

    jl

    @the Conster: You are saying that holding honest and contested Democratic primary elections is a Russian plot? Good to know. I’ll keep that in mind.

    Have you called Ocasio-Cortez’ district office yet to voice your opinion on how she is messing up?

  200. 200.

    TenguPhule

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    My fondest hope is that NP is waiting for the 2020 election to get closer

    That makes it less likely, not more, that an attempt at an impeachment inquiry will be made. Because then its “We can’t do anything that would risk losing a couple of points in the election!”

  201. 201.

    kindness

    I have to believe that some (a whole bunch really) of the Democratic Circular Firing Squad is being generated by Russian/right wing trolls. Sadly I see too many actual ‘liberals’ taking up these talking points and running with them.

    It’s as if people didn’t remember what happened in the elections of 2016 and don’t see the same thing taking place right now again.

  202. 202.

    patrick II

    @Ruckus:

    Their utter uselessness is their strength. It’s what keeps them from being in any way positive for the country and only positive for the people they work for, the wealthy.

    Congress abdication of responsibility on most issues is an ongoing problem. They handed over war powers to the president in part to avoid making decisions that could cost them elections. In a country where people vote against things, not for things, if you are shown to be not responsible for a given action because you didn’t vote for it, you can’t be held responsible. There are three ways to do that, fold it into the end of the year omnibus bill, vote against it, or delegate to the president. Options 1 and 3 are the current choices. Option 2 might actually show you have an opinion.

  203. 203.

    TenguPhule

    @jl:

    if the lawful Census forms are printed up without a poorly designed citizenship question that was added illegally

    This is the part where I want visual confirmation before assuming they didn’t go ahead and do the illegal shit while lying to the judge about it.

  204. 204.

    germy

    I’m just being super honest here.
    Nancy Pelosi’s decision to go to the NYT’s Maureen Dowd to bash House freshman pisses me off royally. It angers me. A lot.
    Dowd is an enemy. An outright enemy.
    Over the last 25 yrs, nearly 75% of Dowd’s columns bashed the Clintons.
    1/3— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) July 11, 2019

    Dowd has penned a steady stream of misogynistic, nasty, disgraceful crap about Hillary.
    She is the poster child of a toxic media that helped usher in Trump by running endless, sexist bile targeted at his opponent.
    Pelosi going to her is an absolute affront. A disgrace.
    2/3— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) July 11, 2019

    Pelosi can’t be both super smart and super dumb at the same time. I believe she is super smart.
    She knew exactly what she was doing when she went to an enemy to bash members of her own team.
    Turning to enemies to help torch teammates is just disgraceful.
    An apology is due.
    3/3— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) July 11, 2019

  205. 205.

    Served

    I like AOC and Pelosi, but in the wide view, I’d say I’m pleased by half of their actions and displeased by half.

    I don’t think Speaker Pelosi is acknowledging the depth of the hole we are in as loudly as she should, but it’s her job to speak for her entire caucus, take the slings and arrows for the caucus, and also push them when they need it. I have no idea how you do all three of those things, especially with a very loud and media savvy left flank and a politically savvy right flank in the moderates.

    Neither are doing a very good job of knowing when to air the party’s dirty laundry publicly right now.

  207. 207.

    TenguPhule

    @germy: Nancy Pelosi’s tweets would be fine coming from an activist. They look fucking terrible when they come from the Speaker of the House.

  208. 208.

    the Conster

    @jl:

    I’d rather hear from Sharice Davids about how she felt about AOC and Sanders going way out of their lanes from NY and VT, respectively, to gang up on her.

  209. 209.

    Served

    Adding that the “squad” benefits greatly from conflict with Pelosi, who is at the end of her career, and I don’t think that fact is lost on the Speaker.

  210. 210.

    jl

    @the Conster: It’s a free country. People, including elective representatives, can say what they want, and listen and read who they want.

    I think there are commenters on this blog, both from the anti-establishment and anti-progressive factions who have lost their minds.

  211. 211.

    jonas

    @plato:

    With the fucking DC court dismissing the emoluments clause cases against the corrupt thug,

    It wasn’t dismissed on the merits of the case, but rather on standing. The court basically implied that if the President violates the emoluments clause, Congress is free to investigate and impeach him for it. A local state AG can’t. No idea if that legal reasoning is airtight or not, but it’s another thing to add to the long, long list of things Trump’s ass should have been impeached for a long time ago.

  213. 213.

    TenguPhule

    @Omnes Omnibus: My take on it is that its a sign that Schuemer and Pelosi don’t have the internal organization going well. Schuemer being the bigger problem even accounting for the broader power of Senators. Otherwise Pelosi wouldn’t have been caught off guard like that. They’ve got to get their members all pointed in the same direction and get some discipline in their messaging.

  216. 216.

    Wapiti

    @jonas: Yeah, that emoluments clause needs to codified in law giving any state AG standing. As does the anti-nepotism statute. As do a lot of anti-corruption laws.

    Next time we have a trifecta, or close to it.

  217. 217.

    the Conster

    @jl:

    I’m a lifelong Democrat, and the only thing I’m anti- is anything that doesn’t help their efforts to get rid of every last Republican, and the only thing that works towards that end is voting them all out. Most of the country is not *progressive* (whatever that even means), and the sooner that’s understood, the better.

  218. 218.

    TenguPhule

    Immigration raids to take place across US starting Sunday

    And now the fucking raids are back on again.

    US immigration officials have said immigration raids targeting thousands of families will take place in major cities across the United States starting on Sunday – less than a month after delaying a similar operation.

    Such a move could see parents separated from US citizen children, more detained families and a flurry of legal challenges.

    Department of Homeland Security officials from the Trump administration, speaking anonymously, told newspapers that details of the raids had not been finalized, but would probably begin on Sunday and occur in at least 10 major cities.

  219. 219.

    Soprano2

    @TenguPhule: That was Vir talking to Morden, wasn’t it? B5 was relevant during the George W. administration, and is even more relevant now. I’m not sure you can find it being broadcast anywhere, however.

  220. 220.

    TenguPhule

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔
    @realDonaldTrump
    Now the Democrats have asked to see 12 more people who have already spent hours with Robert Mueller, and spent a fortune on lawyers in so doing. How many bites at the apple do they get before working on Border Loopholes and Asylum. They also want to interview the highly……

    32.8K
    4:00 AM – Jul 11, 2019

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔
    @realDonaldTrump
    Replying to @realDonaldTrump
    ….conflicted and compromised Mueller again. He said he was “done” after his last 9 minute speech, and that he had nothing more to say outside of the No Collusion, No Obstruction, Report. Enough already, go back to work! I won, unanimously, the big Emoluments case yesterday!

    31.2K
    4:00 AM – Jul 11, 2019

    Gonna be a long summer.

  221. 221.

    MomSense

    @Betty Cracker:

    Ok but in my district talking to voters they do not want the perception of a too liberal Democratic Party and they certainly don’t want socialism. Can we just win first and then take our agenda left? I think people will love the result of lefty, even progressive, legislation. I’m not sure they will vote for it however.

  222. 222.

    jonas

    Pelosi’s problem is that while young Turks like AOC and Ilhan Omar get a lot of attention, many of the new Dems of 2018 were like Conor Lamb (PA) and Anthony Brindisi (NY) — centrists who won over districts that had voted for Trump, often by a large margin, by promising to be bipartisan, raise the level of discourse, etc. AOC is quickly replacing Pelosi and Hillary as the bete-noir you run against as a GOP candidate, so how do you let AOC be AOC, while still having the back of folks like Brindisi, who is going to get his ass handed to him next year by some bugnuts Trumpist if this gets out of control? Pelosi still hasn’t squared that circle.

  223. 223.

    TenguPhule

    Here is a digest of what else Trump said:

    He (again) called himself a “Stable Genius” and praised himself as “great looking”.
    He said he would “ultimately leave office in six years, “or maybe 10 or 14,” and added he was “just kidding”.
    He also said the “fake news media” will likely “go out of business” during this long tenure, because the industry lacks credibility.

    Again, he’s trying to normalize the unimaginable.

  224. 224.

    TenguPhule

    @Soprano2: That’s the one.

    I’d swear Trump is a Shadow Puppet. Because when he was asked “What do you want” he said, “Everything.”

  226. 226.

    Kathleen

    @JPL: I fear for the country too but I fear and blame Rethuglicans. They get away with plundering, raping and killing partly because we splinter our energies and turn on other Dems instead of demanding that Rethugs take action. Democrats are not pure and perfect but they’re smart, dedicated to doing what’s right and are trying to fight the good fight. They will make mistakes and fail but don’t we all. Like it or not they’re the only thing left between us and full blown fascism. I choose to put my energy into supporting them. I don’t have the luxury of being cynical about Dems.

  228. 228.

    jl

    @jonas: The GOP is already calling Biden a socialist. Different factions of the Democratic are going to argue their case. You can only vote in the one Congressional district where you live (despite GOP and Trumpster lies), so you can only have direct influence over one Congressperson.

    I think it’s better to have an open debate between different factions of the Democratic Party on policy than to try to suppress it. I think Pelosi messed up by complaining to Dowd in the NYT piece and dissing progressives, and then trying to shut down her caucus’ comments on twitter; and Ocasio-Cortez messed up in accusing Pelosi of bigotry. People aren’t perfect.

    If we can have an open debate on policy, that will be good. It will be novelty for people who watch the corporate news.

  230. 230.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    well, it’s good they’re de-escalating

    Manu Raju @ mkraju
    Just asked @ aoc if she stands by her comment that Pelosi singles out women of color. “Well I think it’s really just pointing out a pattern, right? We’re not talking just about progressives, it’s singling out four individuals and knowing the media environment we’re operating in..”

    …knowing the amount of death threats we get, knowing the amount of concentration of attention, I think it’s worth asking why.”

  231. 231.

    Brachiator

    @TenguPhule:

    Department of Homeland Security officials from the Trump administration, speaking anonymously, told newspapers that details of the raids had not been finalized, but would probably begin on Sunday and occur in at least 10 major cities.

    Hmmm. The news media are “fake news,” but the Trump administration still uses the media to instill fear in undocumented people and to rattle the general public.

    I hate these people.

  232. 232.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    not for nothing, Ayanna Pressley has the most electoral and political experience of anyone in “the Squad”

    Manu Raju @ mkraju
    Asked Ayanna Pressley if she agrees with AOC. “In my district we have had 18 shootings since July 3rd, I’m heading into oversight and a child trauma hearing I’ve been advocating for. .. I’m not giving this any more oxygen.” She wouldn’t answer whether she still supports Pelosi

  233. 233.

    Betty Cracker

    @MomSense: You have to give people a reason to vote for Democrats, though, and for a lot of folks, “Republicans are monsters” isn’t a good enough reason. The same formula won’t work in every region, as we both know, so candidates have to tailor their message for the district. Republicans outnumber Democrats in my county 2-1, so I get that. But no, I don’t think we can just win first and take our agenda left later. We should be able to articulate a broad set of values that define the party and appeal to voters everywhere. I don’t think we’ve done a particularly good job of that. It’s hard work.

  234. 234.

    TenguPhule

    @Brachiator:

    I hate these people.

    No argument here. It pisses me off that even if the raids are called off again, people still have to take the warnings seriously and disrupt their lives because they can’t afford to guess wrong.

  235. 235.

    Another Scott

    Popehat has some more (uncomfortable) questions for his old classmate Sec. Acosta (thread):

    1000/24thHat @Popehat

    1000/24thHat Retweeted 1000/24thHat

    Dear @SecretaryAcosta:

    Good morning, Mr. Secretary.

    I have a few more questions.

    Dear @SecretaryAcosta:

    I do not believe we have spoken since graduation. I regret encountering you under these circumstances.…

    7:29 AM – 11 Jul 2019 […]

    I hope Acosta holds on at least another couple of weeks so that the MSM and the vacationing Americans wake up to what is going on here.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  237. 237.

    Brachiator

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Manu Raju @ mkraju
    Just asked @ aoc if she stands by her comment that Pelosi singles out women of color. “Well I think it’s really just pointing out a pattern, right? We’re not talking just about progressives, it’s singling out four individuals and knowing the media environment we’re operating in..”

    …knowing the amount of death threats we get, knowing the amount of concentration of attention, I think it’s worth asking why.”

    The Democrats need to deal with this shit. Flag of truce. Something.

    I don’t care who might be more at fault. This only helps racists and Republicans (and these days racists and Republicans are almost synonymous).

  239. 239.

    rp

    @the Conster: Yes, and that’s a big part of the problem IMO. You can call it whatever you want, but there needs to be one committee specifically focused on whether impeachment is warranted in light of his demonstrated unfitness for office and numerous high crimes.

  240. 240.

    Mandalay

    Not entirely OT given the discussion of AOC in this thread, can anyone find something good or bad to say about Steny Hoyer?

    He’s been the House Majority Leader since the midterms, yet I never hear about the guy saying or doing anything.

    Is he a complete waste of space, or some fatherly figure calmly steering our ship through very dangerous waters?

    I know nothing about him and have nothing against him, but given his position he shouldn’t be a bit more prominent?

  242. 242.

    the Conster

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    She’s the only one I have any confidence in – she beat Mike Capuano in a majority minority district in Cambridge, but they had virtually no policy differences between them. I don’t see her rocking the boat like AOC.

  243. 243.

    Brachiator

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Manu Raju @ mkraju
    Asked Ayanna Pressley if she agrees with AOC. “In my district we have had 18 shootings since July 3rd, I’m heading into oversight and a child trauma hearing I’ve been advocating for. .. I’m not giving this any more oxygen.” She wouldn’t answer whether she still supports Pelosi

    Trick question. How do you not support the Speaker of the House, who is a Democrat?

  245. 245.

    Kathleen

    @Betty Cracker: That’s precisely what Dems did in 2018 and they’re continuing to pass legislation while conducting oversight hearings. They’re now being blamed for not screaming that Trump is a monster.

  247. 247.

    boatboy_srq

    @TenguPhule: Actual quote: I’d like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look into your lifeles eyes and wave, like this. Can your people arrange that, Mr. Morden?

  248. 248.

    jl

    @Betty Cracker: “I don’t think we can just win first and take our agenda left later. ”

    I agree. I think it’s important for a candidate in each district to be able to argue for the policies they will pursue in office frankly, boldly and sincerely. Doing so instills a sense of confidence, and trust in the voters that they can depend on you to your job as best you can.

    I also think that too many people think that public opinion is fixed in stone, and it is like a weather event that is uncontrollable. One of the crucial arts of leadership is to be able to persuade people. I think pro-establishment moderate types game themselves into thinking what they ought to say based on what they think polls (which are often very flawed, se my statsplaining comment above) say about essential and unchangeable aspects of public opinion. I don’t think that is a good attitude and I don’t think that sends a good message of candor and strength to the voters. And also true that progressives will cherry pick opinion polls and convince themselves that the public is really with them, and they underestimate the amount of work at persuasion is needed to make some of their plans feasible (and Medicare for All is the leading example of this problem).

    As I noted above, the GOP is already trying to label effing Biden as a socialist. So we know that is their game, and I think effectively cowering and worry-worting about whether you will be perceived as a socialist if you advocate for good policies is a very bad response.

    As a Warren supporter, I think she has it right. Say, in effect ‘FU, I am a good capitalist, and here are my good capitalist polices need to fix broke a corrupt crony capitalist system that is grinding your face in the dirt.”
    And Harris seems to be following her lead, with her recent proposal on the housing mess.
    And which two (very excellent IMHO) candidates are rising in the polls?

    As Churchill is supposed to have said “Democracy is the worst possible form of government, except for all the rest.” Honest debate is essential for democracy to work. It is messy and scary, but there are no shortcuts.

  249. 249.

    Barbara

    @Another Scott: We’ve had meetings with federal prosecutors outside of their office, in our office, but never alone. They always have multiple government attorneys present.

  250. 250.

    the Conster

    @rp:

    Once the committees get what they’ve asked for, they’ll determine what the charges will be, and then a vote will be taken by the full House on a resolution to open impeachment hearings on those charges run by the Judiciary Committee who will draft Articles of Impeachment. which will then be voted on by the full House. The courts are in the process of backing up House Dems’ oversight requests. Mueller hasn’t even testified yet. There are many many crimes. Why shut the committee work down so far before the election? What’s the point of a failed impeachment this early?

  251. 251.

    Kathleen

    @Baud: I’m old enough to remember when several Dems including Hillary had pipe bombs delivered to their homes and no one batted an eye. Including media and emo left.

  252. 252.

    Brachiator

    @Betty Cracker:

    We should be able to articulate a broad set of values that define the party and appeal to voters everywhere. I don’t think we’ve done a particularly good job of that. It’s hard work.

    It’s odd to see the Democrats stumble when much of this should be easy, and when the Democrats appear to have a clear advantage over the Republicans.

    I even think that Trump is a bigger … self-liability…than he realizes. He draws attention to himself with his Twitter rants, but this also underscores his failures and weaknesses. Sometimes the rants can just be ignored. Either way, even this stuff presents opportunities for the Democrats.

  253. 253.

    jl

    @the Conster: OK, I agree with you there. I don’t think timing of formal impeachment hearings is important as long as timely progress is being made in exposing Trumpster wrongdoing, and the findings aggressively explained to the public.

  257. 257.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kathleen: Good on them for passing legislation, even though it’s going nowhere. But we’ve got to let our anti-Trump base know we’re fighting for them too. It’s not easy, I realize, but when there’s this much internal strife, something’s not working.

  258. 258.

    Mandalay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    You can put votes and factions in perspective without being quite so dismissive, and– again– no fucking MoDo. Ever.

    Dead right.

    Pelosi really loses credibility when she goes whining to Dowd about AOC et al, and then tells them to STFU and stay in their lanes.

    But all of them need to stop fighting in public…permanently. Sort that shit out in private.

  260. 260.

    Duane

    If anyone needs rounded up, jailed and deported it’s Trumpov. Siberian gulag for life. I fucking hate that fat no good bastard.

  261. 261.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Josh Marshall @ joshtpm
    lol seems to be changing hour to hour but latest is that Trump’s exec order is an order to go low energy and give up.

    MSNBC chyron says trump is asking Commerce to find a way to determine citizenship outside of the census. A big, blustery climb-down, sounds like.

  263. 263.

    Kent

    @Kay:

    Just so you know, public schools will get hammered with an undercount. They will feel it immediately. Real pain.
    Once again the sleazy, rich Trumpsters are harming brown children. The immediate brunt of this will fall on 2nd graders, because they won’t get an accurate share of federal funding for the schools they attend.

    Actually as a teacher I don’t think this is true. Actual attendance counts submitted by the school are what are used for all the state and federal funding programs that I am aware of. Most schools I have taught at are religious about taking attendance for this reason.

    But for other programs, yes.

  264. 264.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    when there’s this much internal strife, something’s not working.

    There’s strife because everyone thinks they can berate everyone else into acting a particular way. And when that doesn’t work, the conclusion is that there hasn’t been enough berating. Twas always thus.

  266. 266.

    germy

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    MSNBC chyron says trump is asking Commerce to find a way to determine citizenship outside of the census.

    I remember watching old WWII movies when I was a kid, and some nazi or another was always demanding “Your papers, please!”

    And then I’d go to school and see filmstrips (beep! remember those?) about our freedoms from searches and having our doors kicked down in the middle of the night.

  267. 267.

    schrodingers_cat

    @MomSense: Me three. I would check who is funding the Justice Dems and the Sunrise movement, because all they seem to do is attack other Ds. Sorry I can’t board this Nancy Pelosi bashing train.

  268. 268.

    the Conster

    @rp:

    You’re not the audience, Trump is. He’d love nothing better than to have Mitch McConnell get his criminal mitts on Articles of Impeachment for a show trial kangaroo court of deep state conspiracy nuttiness followed by a quick acquittal so he can crow about being exonerated for the next year.

  271. 271.

    Kent

    Oh FFS guys. Why all the hating on AOC? She’s just serving her role which is to push the Overton window to the left. Exact same thing that the so-called Freedom Caucus did for the GOP? How much mainstream legislation was torpedoed in the House over the past decade because the Freedom Caucus or Tea Party said no? Eventually we’ll get to the point where Pelosi will have to go to Trump and say…”we’d love to cut a deal on kiddie concentration camps but my caucus just won’t go along” so sorry, no $$$ for you.

    The Democratic party has a lot of problems but AOC is the least of them. Better place to start would be Chuck Schumer in the Senate. Does anyone in their right mind thing that Mitch McConnell would be rolling over and playing dead if the roles were reversed? Fuck no. He’d be burning down the Senate to bring every single thing to a screetching halt.

  276. 276.

    jl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I hope the executive order is a fllim-flam to hide surrender.

    Maybe Trump not trying to stop printing the lawful forms was a tell. Or maybe he thought he would pursue the idea of an addendum on citizenship, but then it got all to complicated for him to want to bother (I mean, like he really gives a damn… unlikely).

    But, such a stupid order would still be dishonest, since very good Census Bureau surveys are already in place that give very accurate info on rates of citizenship, down to congressional districts and lower.

    Edit: for a tinpot demagogue, surrendering under thin cover of continuing the glorious righteous fight and then feigning outrage, and lying about the situation and getting big cheers at his rallies will a lot more fun.

  277. 277.

    rp

    @the Conster: (a) I don’t buy it; Trump’s not that clever. (b) How does Pelosi’s downplaying impeachment and failure to explain the process help her vis-a-vis Trump? (c) The voters and the media are part of the audience. She needs to motivate voters and help drive the conversation.

  278. 278.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @germy: there will be fuckery afoot, and trump has a hard-on to see ICE kicking down doors, and we, from activists to legislators will have to stay vigilant and ready to go to court and hope we don’t get trump judges, but he did back down from a constitutional crisis

  279. 279.

    TenguPhule

    Senate to expedite confirmation hearing for Trump’s defense secretary pick

    Exhibit X as to why Schumer is a fucking bad Democratic Minority leader.

    STOP MAKING IT EASY FOR MCCONNELL.

    The Senate Armed Services committee announced Thursday that it will expedite the process to hold a confirmation hearing for Donald Trump’s pick for secretary of defense Mark Esper despite the fact that Congress is still waiting for the White House to submit his formal nomination.

    Esper’s hearing is scheduled to take place on Tuesday July 16, according to a statement from committee leaders, which noted that the Executive Branch has provided “pre-nomination paperwork.”
    The announcement comes at a time when large number of senior roles at the Pentagon lack permanent appointees. Increased global tensions have prompted senators on both sides of the aisle to begin the confirmation process for Esper as they are eager for stable leadership after more than six months without a permanent defense secretary.

    Nobody Trump nominates is going to do a good job. Exploit the remaining fucking Senate Rules and make McConnell break them out in the open to get anything done.

  280. 280.

    jl

    @germy: ” MSNBC chyron says trump is asking Commerce to find a way to determine citizenship outside of the census. ”

    Like the glorious Continental Army storming the airports and Fort McHenry during the Revolutionary War, some of this confusing nonsense may be due to Trump being a complete ignoramus. There are already very adequate, fine and wonderful, statistically sound and reliable, ways to get estimates of rates of citizenship WITHIN the Census Bureau.

    Like a lot of other outrages, hard to separate out the independent contributions of malice, ignorance, sloth and incompetence.

  281. 281.

    James E Powell

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t agree with everything AOC says and does, but she’s right about many things. Here’s AOC being right about Democratic Party messaging in The New Yorker interview yesterday:

    Completely agree with you and I agree with AOC. And it’s not like a fair number of people haven’t been saying the same thing for a few years now. For the people who read and comment here, it’s like we’ve been over this a lot.

    I do not like the way the rest of the Democrats let her stand alone and get pilloried by the RW propaganda machines. This is what Democrats allowed them to do to Hillary Clinton for 20 years.

  282. 282.

    The Moar You Know

    The Democratic party has a lot of problems but AOC is the least of them. Better place to start would be Chuck Schumer in the Senate. Does anyone in their right mind thing that Mitch McConnell would be rolling over and playing dead if the roles were reversed? Fuck no. He’d be burning down the Senate to bring every single thing to a screetching halt.

    @Kent: You are correct…and yet, oddly enough, it is McConnell and not Schumer who has brought the Senate to a dead stop. The Senate, as it turns out, doesn’t have to do jack shit, and they aren’t – on his orders. Judicial appointments and nothing else.

    Not many people seem to have noticed that.

    I don’t know how Schumer is supposed to deal with that.

  284. 284.

    MomSense

    @jl:

    They are trying to label Biden a socialist because socialism is not popular in the swing districts we need to win in 2020! It’s a scare tactic that works. Why do you think the media keep presenting AOC and Wilmer as the voices of Democrats? It’s not to be helpful to Democrats.
    Again, I think we need to win first. The Democratic candidates who won in 2018 especially in swing and +R districts were running as moderates. I’d like to look at what worked in the most recent election, which was a yuuge success, and model 2020 on success.

  285. 285.

    Chyron HR

    @James E Powell:

    Well, according to AOC (and the rest of “the left”) the destruction of “Shillary” was the best possible outcome of the 2016 general election, so I don’t see how she has any grounds to complain.

  286. 286.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Betty Cracker:

    You have to give people a reason to vote for Democrats, though, and for a lot of folks, “Republicans are monsters” isn’t a good enough reason.

    Republicans lost the midterms by 9,743,703 votes.

  288. 288.

    the Conster

    @rp:

    The same way Bill Belichick doesn’t come out at the beginning of every week and explain what his plays are and when he’s going to run them for the fans of the team. Just because he doesn’t do that, should we assume he has no plans, and that he has no idea what he’s doing? Wasn’t Pelosi just instrumental in getting the House back from the GOPers? The House members who flipped red seats blue ran on health care, not impeachment. Didn’t she get the ACA passed through the House with the public option in it, even after Obama reportedly had given up? I think a lot of the bashing of her is plain old misogyny. She’s the best legislator of our lifetime, and I’m really sick of everyone blaming her for McConnell and Trump’s monstrosities. Probably a lot of the same people who voted 3rd party on principle. She knows the ONLY WAY to get rid of Trump AND Pence is to vote them out so Trump can be indicted, and that the way to do that is to mobilize the electorate right before the election, not by failing at an impeachment a year out.

  289. 289.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    I blame baseball. with the all-star break in force, we don’t have the national pastime to distract us from internecine arguments

  290. 290.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MomSense: I agree, I think Warren made a mistake by going all-in on single payer, and Harris got wounded by a badly-worded question from Chuck Todd

  291. 291.

    tobie

    @Kent: one of the reasons the GOP lost the House in the midterms is that people realized they couldn’t get shit done. Thanks to the Freedom Caucus, they moved so far to the right that whatever they proposed was noxious. I would never want to emulate that model on our side. Glad some of the freshmen Congress people are learning how to write well-conceived legislation. Should Dems ever retake the Senate and the White House, we’ll desperately need those skills. At this point I’m not sanguine about our chances.

  292. 292.

    zhena gogolia

    This is a depressing thread. I’d almost rather be fighting about Buttigieg.

  293. 293.

    TenguPhule

    @the Conster:

    She knows the ONLY WAY to get rid of Trump AND Pence is to vote them out

    Its not. And betting everything on the 2020 election is unwise.

  294. 294.

    dww44

    @germy: As do I
    @Kay: I’ve been wondering if it might be a blessing in disguise if the whole census matter ends up in the courts for the next 8 months or so resulting in a postponement until 2021, when perhaps there’s a Democratic administration. Immigrants, legal or not, will feel less intimidated and/or afraid, resulting in a more complete and accurate count of U S persons. Any possibility of that?

  296. 296.

    James E Powell

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I don’t always agree with AOC’s take on things, but the thing I really do like about her is that she doesn’t buy in to the cult of the savvy. She isn’t a pessimist. Perhaps a few people could take a lesson from her.

    Yeah, I do see her sometimes as the one standing up in the locker room at half time screaming “C’mon guys, we can win this thing!”

    You know, the pessimism in comments on this blog – too often by me, I’m afraid – are expressions of frustrations and anxieties. They are, no doubt, annoying to those who prefer a PMA. But the comments on this blog – even though it’s a Leading Democratic Blog – have zero impact on the decisions and public statements of the Leading Democrats. None of the comments here determine the outcome of elections.

    The pessimism and cynicism that needs to be eradicated is that which infects the upper ranks of the Democratic Party and their consultants who are apparently deathly afraid of confronting an unpopular dishonest president whose conduct is deplorable and whose policies are indefensible. It is they who have the darkest view of America and Democratic voters.

  297. 297.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Careful about those expectations of what Trump’ll do today. He won’t defy a court order, nor issue an executive order directing the Bureau to add the question. Eventually, Sec. Ross will issue a new directive with a new rationale, and *that* will be subject to legal challenge.

    —@marty_lederman

    and right on cue

    EXCLUSIVE: Pres. Trump is expected to announce he is backing down from his effort to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census, and will instead instruct the Commerce Department to get the data through other means, sources tell @ABC News.

    —@ABC

    typical Dump

  299. 299.

    tobie

    I gather twitter is down nationwide. This may be the best thing to happen in months. Political discourse will rise as tweeting falls. For those good at witty comments and pithy rejoinders, I have a question, though. What’s a good slogan to put on signs for the vigil tomorrow. “Close the Camps” is good but formulaic. “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free” is a lot to write on poster board.

  300. 300.

    James E Powell

    @Chyron HR:

    Well, according to AOC (and the rest of “the left”) the destruction of “Shillary” was the best possible outcome of the 2016 general election, so I don’t see how she has any grounds to complain.

    Why do you tell that lie? What do you gain from it?

  302. 302.

    Baud

    @tobie:

    I gather twitter is down nationwide

    Damn, Pelosi.

    As far as the sign goes, how about “Children need Care, not Cages”.

  304. 304.

    schrodingers_cat

    @tobie: I like Twitter, it gives me a good overview of what is happening without me having to spend a lot of time. I follow a handful of journalists, couple of immigration lawyers and JGC.

  305. 305.

    Brooklyn Dodger

    @tobie: Immigrants – without them there is no US

    I would illustrate with photos of my grandparents but whatever woiks!

  306. 306.

    Brachiator

    @tobie:

    I gather twitter is down nationwide. This may be the best thing to happen in months. Political discourse will rise as tweeting falls.

    I see panicked people dropping their disabled smartphones and getting into fist fights. Fortunately, they are limiting it to 280 punches.

    ETA. Breaking news that Trump has supposedly relented on the census question.

  308. 308.

    Gravenstone

    @the Conster:

    What explains Mitt Romney’s utter cowardice then?

    Romney is an invertebrate masquerading as a human. Having no spine goes well with having no morals.

  309. 309.

    Another Scott

    Five Dollar Feminist at Wonkette has a good summary of the Census legalities, etc., etc.:

    Mark your calendars, the Constitutional crisis is scheduled for 5 p.m. … PSYCH! ABC is now reporting that the Trump administration caved to reality and will acknowledge that their plan to add a citizenship question to the US Census is dead. So, either ABC is wrong and Trump and Attorney General Bill Barr will forge ahead and announce their Totally Legit Not At All Racist New Plan to defy the Supreme Court and ratfuck the Census this afternoon, or Trump will sign an Executive Order mandating that Wilbur Ross make a list of all those pesky illegals some other way. Spokesman Higglesford Giblets declined to comment on ABC’s report, but said Trump “will do everything within his legal authority to determine and make public who is in the United States legally and who is not,” according to Reuters, so at least we’ve got that whiff of fascism to look forward to. But are the Census cases finally, really dead? Or will they be resurrected like Dick Cheney to haunt us forever?

    We believe this takes us back to exactly where we were a week ago. Happy Groundhog’s Day, everybody!

    […]

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  312. 312.

    Brachiator

    @dww44:

    ’ve been wondering if it might be a blessing in disguise if the whole census matter ends up in the courts for the next 8 months or so resulting in a postponement until 2021…

    No, the freaking government is supposed to run effectively. It should not depend on which party is in power.

  315. 315.

    Gin & Tonic

    @tobie: Speculate all you want – this place is good for that. Twitter wasn’t invited to that stupid meeting, though.

  316. 316.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @tobie:

    I don’t about signs, but this would be a good chant:

    Hey, hey, Donald Trump
    How many kids did you cage today

  320. 320.

    Kay

    @Kent:

    Census data determines the distribution of:
    More than $14 billion in Title I grants that help schools serve more than 24 million students from low-income families;
    $11.3 billion in special education grants to the states;
    About $13.6 billion for the National School Lunch Program;
    Plus funds for the Head Start preschool program and grants to improve teacher quality.

  322. 322.

    Brachiator

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I have connected with many anti-caste activists in the media and academia via Twitter. I have learned a lot. Its a tool like any other

    I was making a joke with my earlier comment, but I don’t have a problem with Twitter.

  323. 323.

    Mandalay

    @Chyron HR:

    according to AOC (and the rest of “the left”) the destruction of “Shillary” was the best possible outcome of the 2016 general election

    Just go away. Take your bile and bullshit to another web site.

  326. 326.

    Hoodie

    @zhena gogolia: You can probably safely assume that most of this is kabuki. AOC is pushing towards the food bowl and Pelosi just growled back at her, the message being “great, but you didn’t invent progressivism; see if you can get more than 4 votes.” Pelosi has a bunch of purple state dems to support, beating up on AOC is one way to help with that. AOC is doing some great things, but she’s ambitious and likes the limelight. Pelosi needs to swat back because she needs to prevent the AOC wing from turning into the left-wing equivalent of the Freedom Caucus. Boehner failed to keep them on a leash and they ended up rendering him powerless. She will be ok with them raising a little hell, but Nancy will not make the same mistake.

  327. 327.

    Kay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I like Twitter too. Just lurk! Then it’s not upsetting. I suppose not everyone can lurk. But we can. I even read Trumpy twitter for a while but it’s 100% conspiracy theory. They believe nothing unless it comes from Real Donald Trump, and ultimately conspiracy theories are boring. Much like Real Donald Trump.

  330. 330.

    kindness

    @Mandalay: Talking to MoDo to begin with is stupid so I agree there. But how much of that conversation did Dowd shade to make it sound like Nancy was a whinyassbaby? Dowd is not on our side. I can not imaging her writing a piece about our side and not purposefully throwing in a rat fuck or two in it. I expect she did it with that interview.

  331. 331.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:
    Our side is a lot more diverse, in people, goals, and ideas. That makes it much more difficult. The right has sold the bottom 90% of their side that every thing is about taxes so that they can get what they want, all the money. They have no real ideas and one goal. They don’t care if abortions are outlawed, because they can pay for themselves, they don’t care if public schools suffer, their kids go to private schools so they don’t associate with the trash. Their kids aren’t joining the military, that’s too middle class.

  332. 332.

    Captain C

    @jl: As far as I can tell, she has an office open in Queens, but is using an NYS Assembly member’s office in the Bronx to handle inquiries and requests from that part of her district.

  333. 333.

    dww44

    @Brachiator: Well. I’m afeared that’s no longer the case. We get rid of Trump, pass that proposed legislation mentioned up thread in the comments to unpartisan the Census and go forward then. I’d much rather see the Census delayed if it’s going to result in a huge undercount. Realize the latest is that Trump is backing down altogether, but I don’t believe for a moment that those who would not have participated in the count with the citizenship question on the questionnaire have been assuaged by the latest development. Likely to be more!

  334. 334.

    Yutsano

    @dww44: You can’t delay the census. It’s constitutionally mandated every 10 years. The last one was in 2010. The only delay would be if it could be allowed to start in 2020 but finish in the next year. And that’s not clear.

  338. 338.

    J R in WV

    @the Conster:

    These Justice Dems are toxic AF. Can’t stand any of them. They’re shit stirrers.

    @AnonPhenom:

    @AnonPhenom:
    By commission (McConnell) or omission (Pelosi) the folk in “the big club” always get their way.

    A bald assertion of corruption, without a single word of convincing evidence to back it up, is exactly how Russian bots would comment, if there was such a thing as a Russian bot commenting.

    And we know there is such a thing as Russian bots commenting.

  339. 339.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @James E Powell: Yeah, I get that people are expressing their frustrations and anxieties. And I am expressing mine. Every time someone pops up with an everything is broken but we should impeach right now even though it won’t remove Trump but at least the bards will sing of our glorious but doomed effort comment*, I get frustrated and anxious. It comes off to me as a lot like the Bernie Bro “Burn it all down” types. Neither burning everything down nor going for a grand, doomed gesture will fix our problems. That is going to take a lot of work over a long time. I think it can be done, but it will take decent people getting up every day and doing something. Many of us will never do much, but every dollar donated, every lie confronted, every phone call made, every protest attended, and, most importantly, every ballot completed will make a difference. Yeah, I am earnest and I am not being savvy, but that’s how I deal with my frustration and anxiety.

  341. 341.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, you said it. This in particular:

    Many of us will never do much, but every dollar donated, every lie confronted, every phone call made, every protest attended, and, most importantly, every ballot completed will make a difference.

    So now I don’t have to. Say it, that is. Yay, you! : )

  343. 343.

    Bill Arnold

    @TenguPhule:

    US immigration officials have said immigration raids targeting thousands of families will take place in major cities across the United States starting on Sunday – less than a month after delaying a similar operation.

    “Raids” announced in advance are not raids, they’re pre-announced pogroms and their purpose is to cause fear in the targeted population.
    And any government that uses these tactics will feel quite free to use them on other constituencies.
    They are thugs. No forgiveness.

  344. 344.

    J R in WV

    @the Conster:

    Sorry, but she’s [AOC] from a deep blue district who couldn’t name the three branches of government and hasn’t accomplished anything. FDR passed the New Deal by selling out blacks and women, and interred the Japanese, and the white *working people* left the party for Reagan after LBJ signed the CRA and VRA. Did she mention that the reason the ACA is in such trouble is because it’s for everybody and not just white people?

    Ocasio-Cortez has an honors degree in , IIRC, International Affairs and Economics from Boston U, and received other academic honors while in High School. In your comment, you hate on both FDR [ who did create the new Deal and managed to win WW II] and LBJ [who did pass the Civil Rights Act and other progressive legislation like Medicare] and Obama also, kinda, so AOC is in rarified company according to you.

    Keeping up your “standards” aren’t you? If the Democratic party is no good according to you, then you must want us to turn to the Russian party?

  346. 346.

    Denali

    Still think that by not opening impeachment proceedings the House Democrats are being perceived as weak and not willing to hold DT accountable. He seems to get anything he wants. This is a frightening time.

  347. 347.

    Dan B

    @Sister Golden Bear: Pompeo’s Natural Law push seems like the thin edge of a wedge. These “commisioners” are horrified by LGBTQ people having an opportunity to be happy but are silent on refugee kids and on the Epstein, Acosta, Trump pedophile sex trafficking.

    Also along for the ‘my mouth is zipped’ ride are Peter Thiel and Caitlyn Jenner – and many more. They are the Vichy gays.

    Very few americans are aware of how monstrous this commisions members are. But they are competing with ICE, HHS, and the Proud Boy allies. They all operate on the principle of weaponizing your internalized loathing.

    Meanwhile our media does nothing to shine a light on the dangers.

  348. 348.

    J R in WV

    @the Conster:

    if she’s [AOC] not doing her job.

    Pretty sure that will be determined by her voters in her district… do you live in her district?

    Also sure her district office has been open and busy for months now. The previous office holder let the lease lapse or some such Red Tape harrasment.

  349. 349.

    James E Powell

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    That is going to take a lot of work over a long time. I think it can be done, but it will take decent people getting up every day and doing something.

    Agree completely. And an important part of that work has to be done by the Democratic Party leadership. The rest of us can’t get on TV and send strong, consistent messages.

    And grand, doomed gestures? How about the search to find Hillary Clinton at fault for Benghazi or the criminal investigation into her emails. There was no chance that either would result in a finding of fault or illegality, but they did have a way of producing the desired results.

  351. 351.

    J R in WV

    @the Conster:

    If you’re working against Democrats at this point in time, especially given what we know, you’re working for Putin. The only question is whether it’s for free.

    What’s your rate? Is that hourly or by the thread or by the comment?

  352. 352.

    J R in WV

    @AliceBlue:

    I’ve been wondering if she pays any attention to her constituents. I read a while back that they’ve been calling Gillibrand’s office.

    That was months ago. Her constituents appear to like her work so far. Are you also working from St Petersburg?

  354. 354.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @James E Powell: Right now there is no clear leader of the national Democratic Party. People are trying to shoehorn Nancy Pelosi into that role, but that isn’t really her job nor is it really in her wheelhouse. You can’t fault a great shortstop for not being a good pitcher.

    As the presidential campaign moves on, I think we will see two things start to happen. First, candidates will emerge as leaders and experts on certain issues. Second, a few will emerge as leaders in general – and those will be the real front runners for the nomination. Until then, leadership on the Democratic side is going to look patchy.

  355. 355.

    J R in WV

    @who is:

    @AliceBlue:

    Between not being available to her constituents and the Amazon deal that pissed off a lot of her constituents, she’s polling poorly in her own district from what I understand.

    I will never forgive her for campaigning against Sharice Davids with that old fraud Wilmer. Unlike AOC, Davids, McBath, Underwood and Haaland are legislating and doing constituent service, but they’re not extremely online self-aggrandizing so they don’t get the love they should be getting. To say nothing about Katie Porter WHO IS AWESOME.

    @the Conster:

    @AliceBlue:

    Between not being available to her constituents and the Amazon deal that pissed off a lot of her constituents, she’s polling poorly in her own district from what I understand.

    I will never forgive her for campaigning against Sharice Davids with that old fraud Wilmer. Unlike AOC, Davids, McBath, Underwood and Haaland are legislating and doing constituent service, but they’re not extremely online self-aggrandizing so they don’t get the love they should be getting. To say nothing about Katie Porter WHO IS AWESOME.

    So am I missing something, or are comments # 126 and #127 identical? How do two different commenters miles apart submit the same comment seconds apart? With the same set of lies, letter by letter?

    Time to put the pie filter back into commission, maybe? You guys aren’t earning your GRU salaries at all~!!~

  356. 356.

    J R in WV

    @Amir Khalid:

    FDR interned Japanese-Americans. Very big difference.

    Actually, the Japanese-Americans were interned while FDR was president. He did not expend any political capital to stop that hot mess — perhaps because he was trying to fight a war against both the German Third Reich and the Japanese Empire AND the American right-wing.

  358. 358.

    J R in WV

    @cain:

    @the Conster:
    This isn’t really the blog for you. Your rants are tiresome, repetitive, and old. We’ve already heard all this.

    His rants are at least a major part falsehoods as well… More than tiresome, shot the truth on Fifth Avenue.

  359. 359.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Dan B: The Conster is not a bot. My guess is that she typed the wrong shit in the ‘nym box. I bet you have never made a mistake, right?

    This tendency to accuse people of being bots or paid Russian trolls is starting to get really annoying. Everyone who disagrees with you isn’t a troll or a bot. Lots of people who have been commenting for years will disagree about things.

  360. 360.

    J R in WV

    @the Conster:

    [attacking] Sharice Davids who had a really good shot at flipping a red seat blue seems like really poor judgment, or malicious intent.

    Sharice Davids won her shot at flipping a red seat blue, shocked (not really) you don’t know that. I contributed to Sharice to help her win… did you? OH!! shocked I am!!! Of course you didn’t..!!

  362. 362.

    J R in WV

    @the Conster:

    There are millions and millions to be made by ratfucking Dems on left and right, lots of it originating in rubles.

    You don’t say! Does your bank change the rubles to dollars, or do you keep bitcoins in your safety deposit box?

  363. 363.

    AliceBlue

    @J R in WV: Oh for god’s sake.. No I am not working from St. Petersburg. I was just expressing curiosity. FYI, I’ve watched AOC in hearings and I’ve been very impressed. That comment at #355 is not mine. It was Conster replying to me upthread.

    Jesus fucking Christ.

  364. 364.

    J R in WV

    @the Conster:

    I’m a lifelong Democrat Russian, and the only thing I’m anti- is anything that doesn’t help their efforts to get rid of every last Republican, and the only thing that works towards that end is voting them all out. Most of the country is not *progressive* (whatever that even means), and the sooner that’s understood, the better.

    Fixed that nasty typo of yours…

  366. 366.

    J R in WV

    @MomSense:

    …in my district talking to voters they do not want the perception of a too liberal Democratic Party and they certainly don’t want socialism.

    Don’t forget that the Republicans think that Medicare is socialism, and the Interstate Highway system, and Social Security, and Union contracts… anything any Democrat ever supported, that is socialism, ask any Republican.

    Socialism is the ownership of the means of production by the people and their government. I don’t hear any Democratic office holder calling for all of our businesses to be seized by the government. Not one!

  367. 367.

    J R in WV

    @Mandalay:

    Not entirely OT given the discussion of AOC in this thread, can anyone find something good or bad to say about Steny Hoyer?

    Who??? ;-)

    Wikipedia says “he served as majority leader (2007-11; 2019- ) and minority whip (2011-19).” so majority leader/whip since 2007. But you’re right, pretty low profile. I don’t know if that’s deliberate or what. He’s too low profile for us to know what’s up wit that.

  369. 369.

    J R in WV

    Guys, when people post abject falsehoods about good democratic liberal officeholders working for progressive values, I’m going to give them a hard time. I might even call them Russian operatives, since that’s who specializes in lying about good Democratic office holders.

    I did not know “The Conster” was a female person, I will take your word for that. But if anyone continues to promulgate lies about AOC and her district, I will continue to give them as hard a time as I can. I like AOC and her attitude and her positions.

    AOC may have been a Sanders supporter in the long ago, you all know I despise Bernie Sanders, but she isn’t working for Sanders now, and now is what counts. So I’m willing to give her a pass on back in the day…

    I’m even willing to give The Conster a pass if she gets over being angry at good Democrats.

    Pelosi understands that getting into specific Impeachment work too soon would be a catastrophe, and intends to wait until next summer to get down to the brass tacks. In the meantime, she has her committees working to develop evidence and sworn testimony that an Impeachment effort can use to work towards an Impeachment vote in October, 2020. Or thereabouts time-wise.

    ETA: If Mitch McConnell needs to hold a Senate vote to absolve Trump on October 31st, 2020 that would be a good thing for the election, I think. Before that, not so much.

  370. 370.

    J R in WV

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    @J R in WV: Stop being an asshole.

    I didn’t intend to be an ass, much less an asshole. Otherwise you will need to be more specific.

Comments are closed.