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Reader Interactions

171Comments

  1. 1.

    [Individual 1] mistermix

    Holy shit we found something the Trump administration could not tolerate.

  3. 3.

    ChrisS

    What’s the difference between this latest news and the news last year that Acosta gave Epstein a sweetheart deal?

    I mean, I understand the Epstein arrest … but it’s not like no one knew of Acosta’s involvement.

  11. 11.

    PaulWartenberg

    @ChrisS:

    what’s happened is that more people found out that what Acosta did broke the law, discredited US Prosecutors across the nation, and likely contributed to ongoing criminal acts by Epstein that another department – the one in New York – had to take over for. At the least, the optics on this was terrible. At the most likely, Acosta was bought off by Epstein for that sweetheart deal and is likely facing ethics charges and disbarment.

  12. 12.

    Victor Matheson

    Well, the Trump administration is certainly setting a record for the number of times they get me to say, “Good riddance.”

  14. 14.

    laura

    I’m hoping he chokes to death eating an endless bag of salted dicks before this is all over and done, but after being grilled, under oath about exactly who made him offer the plea deal, and what he received in exchange.
    That skidmark of a human turned child sex abuse victims into prostitutes in order to allow the criminal the opportunity to plead out.
    Cyrus Vance Jr. ought to resign today too, and then die choking on a bag of salted dicks.

  17. 17.

    Mai Naem mobile

    Guess the Trumpov admin managed to find another wife beater/child diddling enabler to replace Acosta. Only the best vetting.

  25. 25.

    plato

    Top conservative legal figures are stunned and depressed by Trump's cave on the census citizenship question.

    "A total waste of everyone's time. … It's certainly going to give people pause the next time one has to decide how far to stick one's neck out." https://t.co/m0h7rrFHDX— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) July 12, 2019

    Yes, you will stick your cowardly necks out to kiss his ass yet again, you boneless cretins.

  27. 27.

    BR

    I saw in the LA Times article that they already weren’t happy at him because he wasn’t doing enough to “cut regulation” (that is, not giving away the store to cronies fast enough). So they probably figured they could get someone who is corrupt in ways that don’t get them bad press.

  29. 29.

    germy

    “The crimes committed by Epstein are horrific, and I am pleased that NY prosecutors are moving forward with a case based on new evidence”

  33. 33.

    germy

    Now that new evidence and additional testimony is available, the NY prosecution offers an important opportunity to more fully bring him to justice.— Secretary Acosta (@SecretaryAcosta) July 9, 2019

  39. 39.

    Baud

    @germy:

    Now that new evidence and additional testimony is available, the NY prosecution offers an important opportunity to more fully bring him me to justice.— Secretary Acosta (@SecretaryAcosta)

    Fixed.

  49. 49.

    Brachiator

    Small world

    Attorney General William Barr will not recuse himself from involvement in the new federal criminal prosecution of accused child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein.

    But Barr will recuse himself from an internal Justice Department probe of current Labor Secretary Alex Acosta’s involvement in approving a controversial no-prosecution deal with the wealthy financier a decade ago…

    “I’m recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm I subsequently joined for a period of time,” Barr told reporters Monday.

    Barr joined that law firm, Kirkland & Ellis, in 2009.

    Kirkland & Ellis had represented Epstein in 2008, when he was being investigated in Florida. Acosta also previously had worked at Kirkland & Ellis….

    And [NBC News contributor] Figliuzzi said that even without Barr’s connection to Kirkland & Ellis, there was another reason for Barr to recuse himself from anything to do with Epstein.

    Figliuzzi cited press reports that Barr’s father, while serving as headmaster of the exclusive Dalton private school in Manhattan in the 1970s, had hired a 20-something Epstein to teach math despite Epstein not having a college degree.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/09/bill-barr-will-not-recuse-himself-in-jeffrey-epstein-prosecution.html

  50. 50.

    Amir Khalid

    Trump himself having interests hostile to the mission of the presidency and not being a fit and proper person for the office, it goes without saying that whoever he appoints as Secretary of Labor — or as anything, really — will likewise have interests hostile to the mission of the post and not be a fit and proper person for it. His presidency is Duck Soup come to life, which would be hilarious if there weren’t a nation being actively harmed.

  51. 51.

    Keith P.

    Wow, all the pundits were right this time! Ez call though…Acosta is interchangeable with any number of folks who are as-of-now less tarnished by a pedophilia/sex trafficking scandal.

  54. 54.

    The Moar You Know

    I heard this pile of puke in human form explaining to Fox News that “Epstein was going to be allowed to walk by the prosecutors and I stepped in and made sure he did time”.

    Acosta was the goddamn prosecutor.

    I really thought he’d get away with it, but then Trump announced that Acosta was a “really great guy”, which is what he always says when he’s going to shitcan someone.

    ETA: Alan Dershowitz is probably putting a pistol barrel in his mouth as I write this; let us hope. Also, Bill Clinton is probably a very unhappy camper today. Trump would be too but he thinks he’s untouchable, which eh may well be. Will the cretins who voted for him excuse him raping underage kids? Ha, I kill me. They’ll cheer for that shit.

  59. 59.

    MJS

    @rikyrah: I think “avoiding the conversation” is only part of it. The other part is that even if the conversation is held, it probably won’t do any good. We want some magic bullet because we’re afraid that when push comes to shove, everyone who voted for Trump in 2016 is going to vote for him in 2020.

  60. 60.

    FlyingToaster

    @Tom Levenson:

    How many senior posts are now lacking Senate-confirmed occupants?

    I had to go check:

    State: Pompeo
    Treasury: Mnuchin
    Justice: Barr
    Interior: Bernhardt
    Agriculture: Perdue
    Commerce: Ross
    HHS: Azar
    HUD: Carson
    Transportation: Chao
    Energy: Perry
    Education: DeVos
    VA: Wilkie
    Trade Rep: Lighthizer
    DNI: Coats
    OMB: Mulvaney
    EPA: Wheeler

    Defense: Open
    DHS: Open
    CoS: Open (Mulvaney is doing it AND OMB)
    UN: Open
    SBA: Open
    OEA: dismissed the whole shebang

  62. 62.

    SRW1

    Has Trump already commented that he hardly knew the man? Met him at a party once ore twice?

    ETA:
    That Ryan line that Trump was ignorant and erratic is what we’re gonna hear a lot from Trump administration insiders in post-mortems of the administration. You can’t imagine how these guys suffered for the good of the country.

  64. 64.

    plato

    @rikyrah: Yup, fuck mueller. He had the best brains in the IC giving him the best insider info and the inept asshole still couldn’t hack even one worthwhile indictment.

  65. 65.

    Barbara

    It strikes me that Acosta is a careerist, and that whatever he did in the Epstein case was motivated to some extent by what would be the best outcome for his career. In my experience, most US attorneys are not like that, but most US attorneys aren’t put in the position of prosecuting powerful and connected people accused of this kind of felony. He might not have been up to the task even if 2008 was not the tail end of the Bush administration and his time in the job was already limited by that fact alone. I think the odds are that he was not consciously corrupted, but that he settled for something that he would be able to describe as a simulacrum of justice but that would not alienate anyone important. Once you look at the details closely, all of that falls apart. It has had a much longer tail than he probably thought possible, and now people are looking at the details very closely. They are only going to get uglier.

  66. 66.

    MJS

    @The Moar You Know: Don’t you think if there was bad shit on Clinton, it would have come out already? Unlike Trump and Epstein, Bill appears incapable of keeping his indiscretions hidden, likely owing to the non-stop investigations and media focus.

  68. 68.

    bupalos

    @BR:

    I saw in the LA Times article that they already weren’t happy at him because he wasn’t doing enough to “cut regulation” (that is, not giving away the store to cronies fast enough). So they probably figured they could get someone who is corrupt in ways that don’t get them bad press.

    Yeah, anyone doing “oh good a moment of justice” on this needs to reconsider. Not that Acosta isn’t a totally compromised scumbag, just that nothing happens in the Trump administration that isn’t going from bad to worse. Being removed from this administration isn’t any kind of “justice” at all. Zero. None. That will have to come later if it comes at all for Acosta. Meanwhile this does nothing but allow the Trumpies some insulation and to replace this scumbag with another scumbag that will happen to be worse in terms of policy.

  69. 69.

    Ken

    @SRW1:

    Met him at a party once ore twice?

    It’s probably best not to say you met Acosta at a party. Though it’s a little late for that for Trump, what with that tweet of hist from a few years ago about Epstein and young girls,

  71. 71.

    Brachiator

    From The Hill, yesterday, another key Trump official leaving

    The chief liaison between President Trump’s White House and federal government agencies will leave his post next week after more than two years on the job, depriving Trump of one of his last remaining senior staff members from the start of his presidency.

    William McGinley, who has served as White House Cabinet secretary since Trump’s inauguration, has told friends he will return to the private sector ….

    McGinley, a longtime Republican election law expert who served as the top lawyer at the National Republican Senatorial Committee, joined Trump’s campaign in the summer of 2016 as the then-candidate prepared for what might have been a contested convention. McGinley helped quash challenges to party rules that would have hurt Trump’s bid to win the Republican nomination….

    Out of the top dozen White House staff positions tracked by the Brookings Institution, McGinley is the last to leave his post….

    McGinley managed the paper flow between agencies and the White House and coordinated messages for Cabinet secretaries on major administration priorities including the Republican tax cut and the Federal Commission on School Safety.

    He headed a monthly meeting for deputy secretaries, and occasional Cabinet meetings that Trump has come to enjoy.

    This GOP insider was a key figure in getting Trump elected and in subsequently making sure things ran smoothly between the Administration and cabinet agencies.

    I bet he was really proud of his work.

  72. 72.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Barbara: when he left the Bush DOJ, he went to Florida Int’l U Law School as dean. I don’t know what other perks– say speaking fees or directorships– he picked up along the way.

    The one aspect of this story that I think is underplayed is the involvement of Ken Starr, who sang hymns while he jogged and was oh, so appalled by Bill Clinton’s behavior

  73. 73.

    Kay

    I wonder if it’s because he met privately with Epstein’s lawyers and made a deal not to tell the victim’s anything.

    That seems a little grossly and blatantly unethical, and also unlawful since he violated the law protecting victims. To me. And also to the judge who ruled on it :)

    These legal technicalities always trip up the Trump hires. Technicalities such as…laws.

  74. 74.

    Barbara

    @The Moar You Know: I can believe that many if not most people in Epstein’s orbit did not have sex with underage girls, but at this point it almost doesn’t matter for most of them if they were present at Epstein’s house when criminal activity was taking place. I’ve been at parties where bad things were happening and, at a minimum, I left. That’s the least you can do if you find yourself in that situation. Dershowitz’s denials are going to become increasingly desperate. The reality is that he should not have even been there when these things were happening even if he didn’t actively engage in relations with an underage girl. So now, he is trying to maintain that he never even saw young girls. No one could possibly believe that denial. To me, presence at that house is what makes a relationship with Epstein so incriminating. I know Clinton flew on his plane, but was he present at the house in Florida at a time when young girls were around?

  75. 75.

    randy khan

    @The Moar You Know:

    Also, Bill Clinton is probably a very unhappy camper today.

    If Clinton participated in any of this, he obviously needs to go down. But I’m going to hold off on concluding he did until there’s some evidence, as a lot of the Clinton theorizing is coming from people on the right who want to hang a Democrat, too.

    It seems pretty clear that Epstein worked very hard to know a lot of important people and at doing them favors. It certainly was part of an effort to immunize himself from harm, but it seems unlikely that all of those powerful people also shared his proclivities. (And, as someone noted here or on another blog where I hang out, Clinton’s M.O. doesn’t seem to fit Epstein’s pattern, although tendencies do not preclude doing other things as well.)

  79. 79.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    I wonder if it’s because he met privately with Epstein’s lawyers and made a deal not to tell the victim’s anything.

    Tell it, Kay.

    I don’t know why this isn’t brought up more.

    WHY DID HE NEED TO MEET WITH THE LAWYERS – OFF SITE?

  80. 80.

    SRW1

    @Ken:

    Isn’t it that you would want to avoid saying you met Epstein (not Acosta) at a party?

    But even Epstain. Aren’t you in the clear when you can say that you kept your underpants on and that the female working on you at the party was ‘old’ (relative to some other occasions)?

  81. 81.

    Barbara

    @rikyrah: Well, maybe he didn’t need to meet with them off-site, especially when he was in his own district, but I can say that we have met with government attorneys at a location that wasn’t at their office, but usually as a matter of convenience, and they strongly prefer meeting on their own turf. And there are always at least two of them.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    With the Trump Administration be aware that the next hire will probably be worse:

    Trump taps chemical company lawyer to lead EPA Superfund office
    President Trump is nominating a senior attorney at Dow Chemical Co. to lead the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) office responsible for highly contaminated Superfund sites.
    Peter Wright would lead the EPA’s Office of Land and Emergency Management if confirmed by the Senate, the White House announced Friday.

    You’ll be appalled. Can they go lower? Sure!

  83. 83.

    TS (the original)

    @Barbara: I read somewhere (and didn’t keep a link) that Clinton flew with Epstein in relation to work for the Clinton foundation. I believe that is most likely and given nothing about it came out during the 2016 campaign, it appears to be the truth.

  84. 84.

    germy

    BREAKING: MUELLER HEARING DELAYED ONE WEEK TO 7/24, according to two lawmakers on the panel.
    JUDICIARY COMMITTEE WILL GET THREE HOURS INSTEAD OF TWO
    Story with @AndrewDesiderio coming shortly.
    — Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) July 12, 2019

  85. 85.

    AnnaN

    This nasty ass weasel just stood up next to Grandpa Grabbyhands and tooted his own horn (NOT a euphemism) while resigning. Makes me ill.

  86. 86.

    Kay

    @AnnaN:

    That press conference he did was idiotic. He could literally appear in Epstein’s lawyers defense presentation. It was Comey-level stupid and arrogant. What is wrong with these people? Do they think at all?

  88. 88.

    jl

    @PaulWartenberg: A true mess. I’ll keep my eye out for an article that gives the whole picture. What is more sickening is that from what I’ve read, it appears the FL state DOJ was even dirtier than Acosta, which is mind boggling. From what I read FL LEO called feds because FL state authorities were not going to do anything at all, but they best they could get was Acosta’s dirty deal. If that is the case, a truly sickening situation, and indication of deep corruption in our justice system at state and federal levels.

  89. 89.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @germy: damn, it sounds more and more like Mueller’s a prima donna, but I guess more time is… good?

  91. 91.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    That press conference he did was idiotic. He could literally appear in Epstein’s lawyers defense presentation.

    It was awful. He doesn’t think that he should have had to justify himself. That phucking level of arrogance with this bunch.
    He gave a deplorable human being a sweet deal and never ever thought that he would be asked about it, let alone, have to justify what he did.

  92. 92.

    Kay

    @AnnaN:

    He should shut up. Stop talking. There’s an ongoing prosecution. Hasn’t he done enough damage? Why can’t any of them stop talking? Are they 7 years old?

  94. 94.

    jl

    Spent a few minutes reading and listening to Trump statements over last few days. Almost impossible to decipher the gibberish coming out of that toxic fool’s mouth. His vile and pathetic talk and official order on Census citizenship question could be deciphered somewhat, but probably only because most of it was scripted. And that was a hash of the ignorant and deeply corrupt and illegal. But at least you could decipher some meaning to it.

    At this point, maybe best strategy is to keep this fool distracted by nonsense and personal media ego kerfluffels and BS so he won’t have the attention budget to start a war.

  95. 95.

    Brachiator

    @MJS:

    Don’t you think if there was bad shit on Clinton, it would have come out already?

    Not necessarily. Elites can quickly close ranks and protect each other when it comes to scandals, especially after having to throw an offender to the wolves.

    Trump, Clinton and Epstein were friends. However, it is possible that Clinton didn’t know what was going on. It is less credible that Trump didn’t at least know something, from his own statements that he knew that Epstein “liked them younger.”

    And there is no evidence that either Clinton or Trump did anything. But I can understand the speculation.

  96. 96.

    ed

    1: Another position that will not be filled with someone qualified appropriate – We should call this the ‘Temp’ administration – or the Temp Presidency
    2: A thought comes to mind for a slogan: ” Lock up the children, here comes a Republican”

  97. 97.

    jl

    @Brachiator: Plenty of evidence Trump knew a lot, but didn’t care at all. At least, didn’t care until Epstein started messing with people Trump considered inside his little personal and business circles, and Epstein dirt was becoming too public.

  98. 98.

    trollhattan

    @FlyingToaster:
    Very uncomfortable noting the precedent this sets for future presidents (and by that I mean Republican presidents). The maladministration has demonstrated their ability to govern with no oversight or even input from congress. They’re blowing up our very model of government and because they “win the day” congressional Republicans* are fine with that.

    *Basically McConnell

    Also, too, jump into a sewage treatment pond, Acosta. You’ll increase the waste concentration.

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The one aspect of this story that I think is underplayed is the involvement of Ken Starr

    They cannot seem to discredit themselves. They stay credible, forever, no matter what they do. It is the opposite of merit.
    They’re going to be paid as experts on cable shows until they die or are actually in prison. Even then it has to be a life sentence or they’ll be rehired upon release.

  100. 100.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @The Moar You Know: ETA:

    Alan Dershowitz is probably putting a pistol barrel in his mouth as I write this; let us hope. Also, Bill Clinton is probably a very unhappy camper today.

    I really think Epstein set powerful, useful people up in this who thought they were his “friends” for insurance. Dershowitz swears he “just got a massage” at Epstein’s mansion, and had no idea the girl was underage. While I kinda doubt that’s the full story, let’s just say it was. What better way to have a nationally famous lawyer on your side whenever, where ever?

    As for Clinton, it’s well known he did not have a taste for little girls so I’m not worried about that. And the Clintons love to come right up to the line on occasion, but bottom line is they are not stupid and have never been as vile or bold as Trump in terms of crossing the lines. Also, the fact that Secret Service accompanied him on his visits/free plane rides is reassuring. He was willing to take money from anyone who had it to give to the Clinton Foundation, including some of the world’s worst people, so that they could do more good with it than the crooks. Does not surprise me he and Epstein crossed paths.

  101. 101.

    Cacti

    @MJS:

    Don’t you think if there was bad shit on Clinton, it would have come out already?

    This x eleventybillion

    Lefties need to stop carrying the right’s water for them and David Broder-ing this. Acosta was a confirmed bad actor, who used a position of public trust to violate the law in Epstein’s favor.

    Is there was even a whiff of possibility that Bill Clinton had a thing for underage girls, Ken Starr would have leaked it 3 decades ago. RW radio would have been shouting it from the housetops, non-stop, for the remainder of his presidency.

  102. 102.

    Sloane Peterson's knee therapist

    Looks like a Secretary of Labor Golf Tournament @ Bedminster (White House # 3) is now needed to find a replacement, or, a Mar A Lago Membership Triumvirate in the interim.

  103. 103.

    trollhattan

    Are they 7 years old?

    Here’s a limb, let me go out on it and say “Uh, yeah.”

  104. 104.

    Kay

    @Brachiator:

    Law enforcement say people who trade and traffic pornographic images of minors never break ranks because it’s mutually assured destruction. The pact is much stronger than any kind of “I protect my friends”. They’ll all be destroyed.

  105. 105.

    rikyrah

    ???

    Meanwhile, a man I represent is jailed on Rikers right now, unable to afford bail, after successfully doing check-ins for last 9 years bc he failed to update his new address when he recently became homeless. Faces up to 4 years prison. Epstein didn’t check in once since 2011. https://t.co/xsiwx8La79

    — Scott Hechinger (@ScottHech) July 11, 2019

  106. 106.

    trollhattan

    NBC News: Jeffrey Epstein’s attorneys are proposing a bail package worth $77 million plus and says he’ll ground his private jet.

    And because there are no other jets he’s totally, frealzies not a flight risk.

  107. 107.

    bupalos

    I’m not going to waste an instant worrying about any benefit of a doubt I need to give Bill Clinton. The Democratic party should be at best very VERY ambivalent about that guy and his place in the direction of U.S. politics.

    We put way too much stock and energy into these traditional figures and how much we need them and their “leadership,” when all they are mostly doing is opportunistically crowd surfing. Al Franken is in a much smaller version of this boat to me too. Epstein, even if he had somehow stayed on the windy side of the law with his general grossness, is still simply and openly a repugnant character that no one who has character and the beliefs a guy like Clinton claims to have and to defend would be able to tolerate. No.

    And it’s not doing the work of the right wing nut-cases to cut these people loose, I think it’s actually the opposite. Because again, we don’t really need them and I’m not sure – even at the height of defensive Reagan panic when Clinton rose – that we ever did.

  108. 108.

    Brachiator

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    damn, it sounds more and more like Mueller’s a prima donna

    I remember when Mueller was perceived to be the white knight who would come to the rescue and save democracy itself from an orange monster.

  109. 109.

    Cacti

    @rikyrah:

    It was awful. He doesn’t think that he should have had to justify himself. That phucking level of arrogance with this bunch.
    He gave a deplorable human being a sweet deal and never ever thought that he would be asked about it, let alone, have to justify what he did.

    The Acosta presser was as close as you’ll ever see a member of the gilded class come to admitting outright that there is a different criminal justice system for their group and yours.

  110. 110.

    plato

    @Kay: I want all these criminal thugs blabbing away on live teevee for presenting them as evidence in their criminal trials.

  111. 111.

    glory b

    @MJS: I agree. I’m positive that if any of the girls mentioned any contact with him, it would be out.

    I know one has spoken about Dershowitz. I’m sure other names have been mentioned. Can’t imagine that Bill Clinton’s wouldn’t have gone unreported by the Repubs.

    Or the FTFNYT either.

  112. 112.

    Cacti

    @bupalos:

    And it’s not doing the work of the right wing nut-cases to cut these people loose, I think it’s actually the opposite.

    And that’s why after Dems hounded Al Franken out of the Senate, the public saw our righteousness and helped us prevent Boof Kavanaugh from getting a lifetime SCOTUS appointment.

    Seriously, what color is the sky in your world?

  113. 113.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    The pact is much stronger than any kind of “I protect my friends”. They’ll all be destroyed.

    Ugh. Sounds like a very ugly secret world.

  114. 114.

    Cacti

    @glory b:

    I know one has spoken about Dershowitz.

    It’s much worse for Dersh. He called anyone who accused him a liar, literally dared them to sue for defamation, and boasted that he’d “destroy their credibility”.

    One of them took him up and filed suit. Now Dersh is desperately trying to get the case dismissed before it goes to discovery.

  115. 115.

    germy

    Long before Jeffrey Epstein pleaded guilty to prostitution charges in Florida more than a decade ago, his fellow Palm Beach resident and hedge-fund manager Douglas Kass was intrigued by the local gossip about his neighbor.

    “I’m hearing about the parties, hearing about a guy who’s throwing money around,” says Kass, president of Seabreeze Partners Management. While stories about young girls swarming Epstein’s waterfront mansion and the sex parties he hosted for the rich and powerful were the talk of the town, Kass was more focused on how this obscure person, rumored to be managing billions of dollars, had become so wealthy without much of a track record.

    Kass was well-connected on Wall Street, where he’d worked for decades, so he began to ask around. “I went to my institutional brokers, to their trading desks and asked if they ever traded with him. I did it a few times until the date when he was arrested,” he recalls. “Not one institutional trading desk, primary or secondary, had ever traded with Epstein’s firm.”

    When a reporter came to interview Kass about Bernie Madoff shortly before that firm blew up in the biggest Ponzi scheme ever, Kass told her, “There’s another guy who reminds me of Madoff that no one trades with.” That man was Jeffrey Epstein.

    “How did he get the money?” Kass kept asking.

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/hedge-funders-have-some-thoughts-on-what-epstein-was-doing.html

  116. 116.

    AnnaN

    RE: Clinton and Epstein

    I really doubt Clinton will be implicated in any of this. Clinton is many things but he has a well-documented type and kids aren’t it.

  117. 117.

    germy

    I am pleased that the exculpatory material that I have been trying to get unsealed for years will finally be made public.— Alan Dershowitz (@AlanDersh) July 5, 2019

  118. 118.

    bemused

    At this rate, the only people left in the WH will be dirty daddy, Ivanka, Jared and Stephen Miller.

  119. 119.

    Emma

    @Brachiator: Epstein used his charity work (dodgy but some cash was handed out) as a way to get closer to people like the Clintons. Most of those connections in the charity world are not personal. They schmooze and trade donations. IMO Epstein used those connections as a way to get the right sort of publicity. In addition, whatever we might say about Bill Clinton, all the women in his life have been adults, even the much fawned over miss Lewinski. So the evidence is not there for accusing Bill Clinton of anything except knowing the guy.

  120. 120.

    Mandalay

    @Cacti:

    And that’s why after Dems hounded Al Franken out of the Senate, the public saw our righteousness and helped us prevent Boof Kavanaugh

    I notice that you carefully avoid mentioning that Franken’s departure got Doug Jones elected over Roy Moore.

    Nice cherry picker you’ve got there.

  121. 121.

    Immanentize

    @MJS: agree.
    I have yet to see ONE photo of Clinton with Epstein. But I have seen at least 3 of trump with him.

    Please let someone post one contemporaneous picture or news article about Clinton and Epstein? I want to see the proof. Anyone?

  122. 122.

    bupalos

    @Cacti: I don’t really get whatever connection you’re even trying to make. No, setting a higher standard for character and ethical behavior doesn’t automatically win you un-winnable individual political fights played on the turf of nihilist scum-bucket wingers that have already rigged the system against democracy. Neither does the opposite, by the way. But that’s really no part of the point here. As a party we need to get away from this idea of our daddy-champions that will win for us if we defend them hard enough.

  124. 124.

    Immanentize

    @Barbara:

    . I know Clinton flew on his plane,

    I don’t know this. Where can I see this reported from before 2007? Or Clinton saying he did? I’m really trying to run this down.

  125. 125.

    bupalos

    @Mandalay: +++Franken’s departure got Doug Jones elected over Roy Moore+++

    Possibly. And even more to the point, cost us what? Nothing. I believe there’s actually a better rep in that seat right now. Maybe less of a “national profile,” but honestly, I think less of a national profile and more actual representatives of actual people and their actual interests is exactly what we need. We need to better embrace being the bottom-up party.

    There’s a reason when Sinclair takes over a TeeVee station the news starts slanting not only right wing but national as opposed to local.

  126. 126.

    Baud

    @Immanentize:

    Don’t lower the bar. Clinton probably has a photo with everyone on the planet. Too many people on our side are too eager to convict him on the flimsiest of connections.

  128. 128.

    Gravenstone

    @ChrisS: One of the stories up on CNN currently suggests that Trump is worried Acosta/Epstein will be a “distraction” ahead of the 2020 campaign.

  129. 129.

    Cacti

    @Mandalay:

    I notice that you carefully avoid mentioning that Franken’s departure got Doug Jones elected over Roy Moore.

    Nice cherry picker you’ve got there.

    The fact that you consider a partial term in the US Senate a tit for tat exchange for a SCOTUS seat makes my point for me.

    Keep wondering why the R’s win at the long game all the time.

  130. 130.

    Bill Arnold

    @germy:
    Was going to link that nymag piece on possible blackmail-as-a-business-model, it’s very interesting. Saw the twitter thread earlier but the article elaborates.

  132. 132.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Brachiator: and your smarmy and gratuitous argumentativeness is making what point? other than that you’re pretty much an asshole?

  134. 134.

    Citizen Alan

    All these people kvetching about Bill Clinton not giving them a pony just piss me off. When he took office, the Democratic party had been in a shambles for over a decade. No one who was considered a serious contender had the guts to run against Bush the Elder who was polling at 89% after Desert Storm. Clinton’s only serious competition were Paul Tsongas (who had the personality of a limp dishrag) and Jerry Brown (who was still deeply in his Governor Moonbeam phase).

    If you think things today are as bad as they can be, I invite you to imagine a world in which Bush won in 1992 and so the SCOTUS seats presently held by RBG and Breyer were instead held by Scalia/Thomas clones. Imagine where we’d be with a 7-2 conservative majority. It would be a god-damned wasteland.

  135. 135.

    Brachiator

    @Emma:

    Epstein used his charity work (dodgy but some cash was handed out) as a way to get closer to people like the Clintons. Most of those connections in the charity world are not personal. They schmooze and trade donations.

    I want to be clear here. I am not accusing Clinton of anything. I am not even accusing Trump of anything.

    But I will note that we don’t really know Clinton or Trump or many people in public life or the extent of their desires.

    That said, this is a very sordid world that Epstein ran around in. He did more than make donations. He arranged special parties for his friends. Stories about Epstein have been around for years, and some of them are bubbling up again. And powerful people may have been working hard to try to contain this stuff.

    And it is strange, but sometimes a couple of names will come out, but often it will be someone who can be tainted, but not prosecuted or deeply affected. In Epstein’s case, Britain’s Prince Andrew has often been associated with parties involving underage girls. The news stories are popping up again, but you know that he will never be seriously investigated.

  137. 137.

    Another Scott

    @rikyrah: It’s worse than that. If you take Popehat seriously, then there are real problems (seemingly hidden poison pills) with the agreement that may mean that it’s binding on SDNY. As bad as the agreement is reported to be, it might actually be worse.

    “People are policy.” We can’t put corrupt monsters in power and not expect them to do monstrous things.

    Grrr….

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  138. 138.

    Barbara

    @Immanentize: Clinton said he did. He released a statement that I am sure will show up through an Internet search. There are some reports that the manifest to Epstein’s plane showed Clinton being aboard more times than Clinton admitted, but I confess to not being quite that obsessed with the matter.

  139. 139.

    Brachiator

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    and your smarmy and gratuitous argumentativeness is making what point?

    Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

    What point were you making by calling Mueller a prima donna?

  140. 140.

    Peale

    @Barbara: Honestly, I think the Clinton/Epstein connection is going to be the “e-mail” drip-drip derp for the next year. The press is really going to want to once and for all be done with those vile Clintons that every “bombshell” in the trial is somehow going to be about them. Its not going to be as effective this time since Hillary isn’t actually running. But I’m sure our candidate will be asked every day to talk about the latest “Bombshell Revelation” for months on end. The GOP desparately wants to run against the Clintons because they can’t beat anyone else.

  143. 143.

    bupalos

    @Cacti:

    The fact that you consider a partial term in the US Senate a tit for tat exchange for a SCOTUS seat makes my point for me.

    Keep wondering why the R’s win at the long game all the time.

    Personally I think it has a lot more to do with this kind of underpants-gnome math. You want to connect the dots on how “going low” (in this case I guess that means countenancing Franken’s squeezy-boob stuff as “boys-will-be-boys”) is supposed to result in a supreme court seat?

    To me that looks a lot more like “going low” for the sake of “going low.” Like because you’re jealous or something. Do the math here for me.

  144. 144.

    junkDNA

    Nobody knew who Acosta was last week. Then everyone assumed you meant Jim Acosta.

    The wheels are coming off.

  145. 145.

    bupalos

    @Peale:

    The GOP desparately wants to run against the Clintons because they can’t beat anyone else.

    So why not just cut the freaking Clintons loose already, to whatever extent possible? To me politically they are just pure downside at this point. I feel like as a party we’re falling into a kind of briar-patch ruse. We have to defend the Clintons because the winger nut-cakes are attacking them.

    Bill especially is simply and seriously a political liability. This is, on the negative side, because he’s a pig. And on the lack of a positive side, because as smart and shrewd as he is his style of governance didn’t really work to meaningfully change America’s direction from a rapidly accelerating upward-flowing wealth and resource funnel. And fair or not, there’s just no way politically that stink is contained short of Hill. This has been true for some time. The sooner and cleaner the cords are cut the better IMO.

  146. 146.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @The Moar You Know: I’ll tell you what, if credible evidence surfaces that Clinton was having sex with children, I will say lots of bad things about him and I will want him prosecuted. I doubt that it will happen, but if it does he would deserve to go down. Unless or until that evidence emerges, Why don’t we refrain from smearing the man?

  147. 147.

    Brachiator

    @bupalos:

    Bill especially is simply and seriously a political liability

    Bill Clinton is pretty much retired. You’re just making shit up.

  148. 148.

    patrick II

    @ChrisS:

    What’s the difference between this latest news and the news last year that Acosta gave Epstein a sweetheart deal?

    It’s on TV.

  149. 149.

    J R in WV

    @Immanentize:

    @Barbara:

    . I know Clinton flew on his plane,

    I don’t know this. Where can I see this reported from before 2007? Or Clinton saying he did? I’m really trying to run this down.

    I also know this because Clinton did a press release where he says he flew with Epstein 4 times, with staff and his typical Secret Service detail every time. Hard to get too deep into child molestation when traveling with LEO protective detail, methinks. Bill likes grown up women.

  151. 151.

    Ruckus

    @laura:
    Going to be a bit snarky here.
    Would the salt add or detract from the meal?
    Heavily salted would of course add to any health issues from the meal.
    Unsalted would mean the taste would be it’s own. Of course one would have to be used to the flavor of dicks but after working for drumpf I’m not sure that’s an issue.

  152. 152.

    TenguPhule

    @Tom Levenson:

    How many senior posts are now lacking Senate-confirmed occupants?

    Almost all of them.

    I think Energy is the only Dept left.

  153. 153.

    TenguPhule

    @MomSense:

    Now we need to remove the rapist from the Oval Office.

    Sadly, you have to be more specific with this criminal crew.

  154. 154.

    Ruckus

    @plato:
    They aren’t sticking their necks out.
    They are sticking them up. drumpf’s ass.
    And finding that end isn’t any better than the other.

  155. 155.

    Ruckus

    @dr. bloor:
    I don’t know.
    Bad press is pretty normal for drumpf. Yes, he’s convinced he’s the best on TV, but he really knows the truth, he’s just incapable of accepting it.
    Not covering up rape is a pretty serious personal problem for drumpf. And personal problems are all he’s capable of understanding.

  157. 157.

    Ruckus

    @Amir Khalid:
    Yes.
    Duck Soup was an obvious comedy about stupidity.
    drumpf the movie is obviously not in the least bit funny.
    It’s not slapstick gone seriously wrong, it’s seriously wrong going on.

  159. 159.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    I bet he was really proud of his work.

    He probably was. He may still be.
    Shit and chaos is what rules republican world. Shit and chaos is opportunity to make money. It’s also the basis for all of their legislative concepts. Which are about being able to make more money. And shit and chaos is what drumpf is all about, it’s his entire life. drumpf is the perfect republican. Which is why his numbers aren’t tanking. How’s that for a concept, drumpf is the perfect republican? He can be as much of a douchebag as he wants as long as his primary result is to spread shit and chaos. And he’s the perfect person to spread shit and chaos. He defines the concept.

  160. 160.

    Betty

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: People who know about these things say they needed extra time because of the stupid rule allowing every member 5 minutes to question. Asked in the rule could be waived, I was told, not if anyone objects.

  162. 162.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:
    Lower is all drumpf ever has. He starts on the bottom and has no where to go but down.

    And no one drops gems in a barrel of bullshit. There are no gems at the bottom of drumpf’s barrel.

  163. 163.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    Do they think at all?

    Their process is noting like anything you could imagine.
    First they have to recognize there is a problem. That’s going to be an issue because they can’t recognize their own fallibility.
    They have to recognize that they have failed. See point one.
    They have to recognize how to fix the failure. See point one.
    They have to engineer a fix for the failure. They have no data on how to fix themselves. See point one.
    For a refresher course on self inflected wounds that are totally irreparable, see drumpf, life of.

  164. 164.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    @Brachiator: Apart from anything else going on I just wanted to jump in and say that I am not in the slightest bit worried about Andrew being investigated, because I know from personal experience that Andy has no interest in little girls. He likes grown women, not only that but he likes grown, strong, assertive women. (His wife being a prime example).

  166. 166.

    Barbara

    @Litlebritdifrnt: This is ridiculous as to Andrew and ridiculous as to Clinton. They like “grown ups” but what does that even mean? A 15 year old girl is usually post-pubescent, meaning, she might be young be she is sexually an adult. The difference between Monica Lewinsky and a 17 year old might be vast legally, but it’s hard for me to say that a man would inherently be able to discern the difference between the two, especially after a few drinks. It is also crazy to say that because they married strong adult women they wouldn’t play the field with much younger women, which Clinton very evidently did with Lewinsky. I am not saying that either did, I just don’t find it in any way relevant to whether they might have engaged in this behavior based on how they presented themselves to the world for public consumption.

  167. 167.

    Ruckus

    @laura:
    Never tried Captain Crunch. If it gives a similar texture to salted dicks………
    OK I’m done.
    Still giggling a bit though.

  168. 168.

    Mike in NC

    We were out doing errands this morning and my wife had a doctor’s appointment. I was reading a book in the lobby when Fat Bastard’s whiny, nasal voice came on the TV. After less than a minute I got up to either mute it or change the channel but could see no remote control. Fortunately they cut away before he could launch another free campaign spot.

    Yet another of his rotten cabinet bites the dust…

  169. 169.

    trnc

    @plato:

    Next out, the complete toady, barr.

    I suppose anything is possible, but considering the servicing Barr has provided DT so far, I’m having trouble imagining what would get him kicked out.

  170. 170.

    Brachiator

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    because I know from personal experience that Andy has no interest in little girls. He likes grown women, not only that but he likes grown, strong, assertive women.

    Probably a dead thread, now, but I am sorry I didn’t see this earlier. I didn’t realize that you possibly ran in posh circles.

  171. 171.

    J R in WV

    @Brachiator:

    In Epstein’s case, Britain’s Prince Andrew has often been associated

    And just who the hell is “Prince Andrew”? These people with a single name plus a title give me a pain in the sit down parts. Real people have first names, middle names, last names. Some people in other nations have more names. No one is just Andrew… how are we to tell all the Andrews apart? I have a cousin Andrew — I guarantee he is not a Prince, except perhaps to a girlfriend or fellow guitar player.

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