Vox has a good piece rounding up the special treatment that Epstein received from the Manhattan District Attorney’s office. In addition to arguing that Epstein shouldn’t have to register and go through the same checks as every other sex offender (an argument that astonished the judge, and that the DA lost), Epstein was never prosecuted for not reporting in, even after complaints from the NYPD officer assigned to Epstein’s case. This is part of a pattern:
Mistake or not, [DA] Vance’s office has faced questions over its prosecutorial decisions before in cases involved the powerful and well-connected. In fact, Vance’s office was under investigation last year by the state of New York for his decision not to prosecute Harvey Weinstein on allegations of sexual misconduct (despite recordings of Weinstein admitting to groping a woman) before that inquiry was paused. And in 2012, Vance dropped an investigation into Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr. for allegedly misleading condo buyers, reportedly after receiving a visit from Donald Trump’s personal attorney, Marc Kasowitz.
I’m sure if Epstein weren’t a rich white dude, he’d be in jail for missing his check-in an astonishing 34 times (since he never checked in at all). But, in Cy Vance’s office, again and again, there’s a different standard for the rich.
On the Road and In Your Backyard
schrodingers_cat
I thought this was going to be the nth thread about Justice Democrats.
Sloane Peterson's knee therapist
Ah… Ah… Ahhh affluenza! Gesundheit.
Betty Cracker
Vance is up for reelection in 2021. He’s already got a challenger: Alvin Bragg [YouTube link]. I don’t know anything about NYC politics, but it from a thousand-plus miles away, it sure looks like the incumbent needs to go.
Barbara
I suggest you read the judge’s opinion on Acosta’s conduct in assisting Epstein from having to face the consequences of his monstrous behavior. Opinion
Share it widely so that everyone understands how the system enabled a serial child rapist.
Brachiator
He would never have had an opportunity to skip the first check-in.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Its seem pretty dirty doesn’t it. Orange One is not the only one that got away from the long hand of justice. So much for the rule of law.
Wapiti
I was going to guess that Vance was a product of the Ivies. Checked his bio and yup, went to Yale for his undergrad.
rikyrah
VANCE GOTTA GO.
PERIOD
germy
So Epstein is white? I honestly don’t know. He was certainly treated white.
I’ve seen Jewish people here and on other blogs say they’re definitely NOT considered white in the United States.
Brachiator
Wow. That’s some bland bullshit possibly covering up a nasty little backroom deal.
germy
@Brachiator: They’re better at making excuses than they are at their jobs.
the Conster
I’ve said from the first day of this nightmare that at the bottom of the Trump sewer was child sex trafficking – I mean, Pizzagate was always the tell. The only reason why these powerful men get away with it is because they’re all either in on it, or they’re being threatened with some other kind of kompromat. Look at what they tried to do to Bezos, the richest person on earth.
If anyone saw the documentary The Keepers, it shows how the system works and hasn’t changed since the 50s and 60s – powerful men from powerful institutions like the church, law enforcement, finance and business – hold each other above the law because they’re child sex abusers. Epstein was clearly the #1 guy for an international trafficking ring. No one earns money like that without being part of a massive conspiracy.
germy
the Conster
What words put one on moderation these days? Is it mentioning s3x trafficking when talking about s3x trafficking?
germy
[Individual 1] mistermix
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, last time he only had a write-in opponent. Hope this guy can mount a decent campaign. Vance will have huge dollars behind him.
@Barbara: Thanks
the Conster
I’ve said from the first day of this nightmare that at the bottom of the Trump sewer was child sex trafficking – I mean, Pizzagate was always the tell. The only reason why these powerful men get away with it is because they’re all either in on it, or they’re being threatened with some other kind of kompromat. Look at what they tried to do to Bezos, the richest person on earth.
If anyone saw the documentary The Keepers, it shows how the system works and hasn’t changed since the 50s and 60s – powerful men from powerful institutions like the church, law enforcement, finance and business – hold each other above the law because they’re child sex abusers. Epstein was clearly the #1 guy for an international trafficking ring. No one earns money like that without being part of a massive conspiracy.
[double comment because the browser keeps wiping out my email address]
Dorothy A. Winsor
One the morning thread, Gin and Tonic posted a link to a twitter thread that live blogging the hearing. I just got back from the gym and started reading it. It boggles my mind.
Ben Cisco
@the Conster: Every accusation is a confession. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: I have questions!
TomatoQueen
I wonder whether Cyrus Vance, Jr. is still in office because voters thought they were voting for his father.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Vance. He does not seem to share any of his father’s virtues, or anyone else’s for that matter. Long past time for him to go.
JohnPM
I guess Law & Order is fiction after all…
rikyrah
FLIGHT RISK ?? ?
? “We became aware today” of a passport issued by a foreign country, in the 1980s, expired currently, with Epstein’s picture but not his name, Rossmiller says.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) July 15, 2019
rikyrah
@the Conster:
TRUTH
Barbara
@the Conster: In an article I read yesterday in the NY Post, an Italian model describes how she was auditioning for work with Victoria’s Secret and directed to go to a specific house to talk to a guy who was influential in the hiring process, i.e., Jeffrey Epstein, and when she met with him she noticed a massage table in his office and he proceeded to take off all of his clothes and an assistant handed her a vibrator and told her to get to work. She threw it in the direction of his head and fled. She bumped into a lady with short dark hair (that would be Maxwell) who told her she wasn’t allowed to leave and didn’t she know who this was and he had important friends, like Bill Clinton. So whether they participated or even knew about the sex crimes they used the names of powerful people to keep people like her silent. This woman was so traumatized she returned to Italy. She was 21 at the time.
rikyrah
@germy:
Ain’t that the truth
the Conster
@Ben Cisco:
Yup. I read somewhere that Q Anon exists for that exact purpose – to provide the squid ink for his base of morons when the news of the Trump syndicate’s crimes break. A church in Boston was just vandalized by one of those hopeless idiots.
rikyrah
David D’Ag (@jackjonesbabe) Tweeted:
The very same people who said over and over that Hillary was no better than trump now expect the entire democratic party to pledge blind allegiance to unproven, inexperienced freshman house members. https://twitter.com/jackjonesbabe/status/1150776114752696321?s=17
germy
Katie Couric and George Steph are good friends with Mr. Epstein, apparently. Have they made any statements?
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: I still have questions!
rikyrah
FYI: The judge in the Epstein case is also a licensed clinical social worker.
Baud
I haven’t heard whether this would be a basis for voiding the nonprosecution agreement, which I believe is Epstein’s main defense.
jackmac
Dem candidates need need to talk about many issues, but one of the top ones — maybe THE top one — is a pledge to restore the rule of law, strict enforcement of rules and regulations and willingness to pursue wrongdoing no matter the size of anyone’s net worth.
Chyron HR
@germy:
I mean, to be fair, same.
Van Buren
@[Individual 1] mistermix: I am of the opinion that the internet can work its magic and make the Vance name pretty toxic.
jl
@germy: ‘White’ is an almost meaningless term, used by those in power to maintain power using divide and conquer tactics to control the underclass. Basically it boils down to ‘does the person’s skin color scare you at 20 paces’, and/or will they be reliable dupes for us? Two examples support this.
It does seem odd to me that many of the supposed Whites now and recently marching for the neo-Nazi cause are from groups that were not considered White by the Nazis themselves. They were not wiped out because their groups were further down on the list of those destined for slave and death camps than the Jews, and the Nazis lost before they were doomed to their fates according the the Nazis long term plans.
Hispanics from Mexico, Central and South America were exempted from the first immigration quotas in the 1920s. Later they were sporadically on and off quotas, but when they were under quotas, they were seldom enforced. Up until the Great Depression the US had de facto open borders to the South. Why? Well, one reason was that Hispanics were considered a better class of person, more likely to assimilate, better workers, more compatible with US culture than ‘suspect’ and dangerous immigrants like Jews, Poles, Italians, and other Southern and Eastern Europeans. But now, for purely vicious partisan political purposes, the powers that be have turned that all around. And then going back further, the dangerous Irish.
And as Josh Marshall has pointed out, vicious anti-Semites in power have historically made exceptions for who will be deemed Jewish, to suit their purposes.
Ben Cisco
@germy: Sounds like a great opportunity to start cleaning up the media cesspool. All their kowtowing for access has contributed to a great deal of harm. Time for the bill to come due.
Barbara
@germy: Well, Stephanopoulos said on the record that he should not have attended a dinner (I think around 2011), and it is the only time he had ever met Epstein. Katie Couric has been mum. But there are others who are much bigger and more frequent defenders, especially those who have received donations for research and pet causes. They seem to be having difficulty absorbing that their willingness to defend Epstein makes them enablers of a sexual predator.
germy
Ponzi Scheme Victims Say Epstein Swindled Them
https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-jeffrey-epstein-help-steven-hoffenberg-swindle-dollar460-million-in-ponzi-scheme
Brachiator
@Barbara:
Aside from this entire incident being disgusting, I wonder how people got to intercept women looking for legitimate modeling assignments and re-direct them towards Epstein. Ugh.
Barbara
@Brachiator: VS is owned by L Brands, which is the company that Wexner was the CEO of. Clearly, he had a deal to send models in Epstein’s direction and he did so through whatever agency or employees he used to retain models. It did not extend to women like Jill Goodacre, the ones who do the notorious VS show that is sometimes broadcast on tv. It was for the catalog and website models, who are paid a lot less and trying to work their way up.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: You hire someone and then send them to be hired by the modeling agency or you hire someone who is already working at the modeling agency and you pay them to divert women to you. Basic human intelligence operation often used in corporate espionage, as well as legitimate intelligence work.
Wapiti
@germy: Wha…?
So all of the conspiracy theories of white girls being sold to swarthy Middle Easterners might have a basis in fact, just like Pizzagate?
Brachiator
@germy:
Very Interesting. There were a couple of posts here earlier citing some suggestions that Epstein was not as rich as he claimed, and not a legitimate investment advisor.
Humdog
So, why did Cuomo stop the probe into Vance? Maybe they both need to be dumped in the trash?
Where has LAO been? The cute pic of her Maggie in the calendar started me wondering, but she may have insights into the Cuomo/Vance matter as well.
tokyokie
@germy:
Except they consider making excuses to be their job.
J R in WV
@germy:
Very true. My aunt Bea probably didn’t feel wholly accepted as white, she was a Jewish socialist. But Jeff Epstein is RICH rich Jewish, and contributes to all the hot fund-raisers around his social set. See the difference? Riches make a big difference.
Redshift
Yep. My suspicion in this case with both Vance and Acosta is that Epstein also made clear that if he went down, things would get very unpleasant for a lot of their rich friends and supporters, and it would end their careers.
ThresherK
@germy: The whole “Is Epstein white” question sorta depends on “Next to who?”, doesn’t it.
Sorta how George Zimmerman is Latino next to white people, but is “upgraded” to white if compared to Trayvon Martin.
(I don’t know if I’m kidding anymore.)
Ben Cisco
@ThresherK: You’re not wrong though.
Barbara
@Redshift: Actually, I think Acosta was worried about his future job prospects. Apparently those loomed large in his efforts to hang on as Secretary of Labor.
jl
Trumpsters moving on the next stage in their illegal and unconstitutional plan to cement their power in red states. Court challenges are mentioned in the article to stopit, and I hope they are successful.
Feds Producing Data For States To Do Anti-Immigrant Redistricting Overhaul
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/citizenship-data-states-redistricting-bureau-directed-data
And I can’t help but note that the complete fraudulence of the racial claims of the fascists attempting to hijack our country is patent in the story:
” Equalizing districts based on CVAP, [Citizenship Voting Age Population} rather than people, would be an electoral boon for Republicans, as the late GOP gerrymandering consultant Thomas Hofeller studied in 2015.
It “would be advantageous to Republicans and Non-Hispanic Whites,” while reducing the number of seats that Latino-heavy areas — which lean Democrat — would receive, Hofeller found in the secret study, prepared for a GOP donor. ”
This guy Hofeller, who understood the data, understood very well that Hispanic is not a racial category. Hispanics can be of any race. In South American there are large populations of Asian and Black Hispanics. The whole ‘White’ versus ‘Non-White’, and ‘Hispanics are a dangerous foreign influence’ is a con and the vicious loons in charge of the scam know damn well it’s a scam.
And it will be a hilarious and disgusting, and dangerous, spectacle watching unscrupulous flunky judges installed in our judicial system, in the cause of the original meaning and plain text of the Constitution, turn the word ‘person’ into ‘citizen’.
Edit: and I have to wonder what dirty tricks the concept of CVAP will make possible. Wonder how soon elderly people who want to vote to keep their Social Security and Medicare will find themselves effectively disenfanchised, whether they are deemed White or not.
Mandalay
@Barbara: From page 6 of your link:
IANAL but that looks like the prosecutor is making a real effort to keep stuff off the record.
Redshift
@Barbara: Yeah. Preet Bharara was talking about how one of the most suspicious things Acosta did was to meet alone with Epstein’s lawyers, without any staff or line prosecutors, outside the office. If anyone below the US Attorney did that, it would be a firing offense because it damages then integrity of the entire office. I can’t see him taking that risk to his career just because Epstein was rich.
Karen
If Vance makes sweetheart deals for Epstein then what will stop him from doing it to Trump?
patrick II
I remember Cy Vance’s dad Cyrus Vance Sr, who served as SOS in the Carter administration, as being a man of principle. And then I think about Mitt Romney’s dad George, and Andrew Cuomo’s dad Mario. What happened to these sons?
Redshift
@Redshift: (A firing offense in SDNY, that is; as the link above shows, in Acosta’s office, the fish rotted from the head.)
jl
@patrick II: Inherited meritocracy does funny things to people.
Gin & Tonic
@patrick II: Reversion to the mean.
Barbara
@Redshift: Yes, I know people have focused on meeting outside the office, and that was suspicious, but mostly it was suspicious because it clearly appears to have been done so that Acosta’s own staff wouldn’t know what was going on. Even when they come to your office (for convenience or space issues), government attorneys almost never meet with you alone. They would cancel a meeting if they couldn’t arrange to bring someone with them, especially if they are discussing a plea or an offer of settlement.
germy
Inherited meritocracy
Jumbo shrimp
Compassionate conservatism
Ruckus
@Ben Cisco:
That access is of course used against them. They get access for control. And that’s OK with them because without the access their job is infinitely more difficult, and sometimes impossible. It’s a hook that the knowledgeable use for their own gain. Positive press keeps them in the positive spotlight. And makes them more powerful among their marks. Epstein did this well. drumpf doesn’t do anything well. But they both played the same game. Hell, drumpf may not even have know he was playing. But the scam is to build a character and play it to the limit. Or to be the character and never break because it’s really you. I see Epstein and drumpf as two sides of the same coin, competent and drumpf. It’s not a good coin in the least mind you. But how different are these two to the guy who owes 7 billion in taxes? Maybe different laws broken, different pains to different people, but the concept is the same, a scam to get money and power and sex. Oldest story ever written. Someone wins and usually lots of someones lose.
patrick II
@Gin & Tonic:
Mean in which sense?
plato
rwnj’s colluding with russia, quelle surprise
rikyrah
@jl:
Original intent and all..
that sticky thing of the 3/5 compromise……counting ‘persons’, but not citizens.
rikyrah
@jl:
Dead man do tell tales.
Ruckus
@ThresherK:
@Ben Cisco:
Ben is right. You aren’t wrong. There is a hierarchy in hate like in everything else. It’s degrees and that degree can be subtle or not but it is there. And if you are the in color it’s easy to make those distinctions without even knowing, because it’s so common. Once your guard is up though it’s easy to see. But of corse you have to want to see it.
germy
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@patrick II:
New York society and money happened to them.
Anyway, I’ve just had a suspicion confirmed – about 7 weeks ago, I was fiddling with a raccoon hole in the eaves. A raccoon family had gotten into the walls, and I rigged a sort of springy thing that would let them out but probably would restrict them from coming back in. The next morning, the Contessa heard some scratching and got to feeling bad about the babies. She told me she wanted them out, but not to starve to death, and wasn’t sure they were big enough to leave. “Open the hole for now”she said.
It had rained that night, and I set the ladder in the same spot as before. As I’m reaching for my jerry-rigged spring door and started fiddling with it, one side sank and the ladder started going. I managed to do a controlled descent for six feet, but had to leap clear the final four, and came down on my left ankle.
I thought it was just a bad sprain. Got an X-ray a week later when the Contessa bagged me into it, nada. When the swelling persisted, I had a Doppler run before our flights to Greece (checking for clots), and was clear. I hobbled all over Santorini, Naxos and Athens, and she then bagged me to go to ortho, who sent me to get an immediate second Doppler and MRI for swelling.
This time, they zeroed in – Achilles’ tear. He wants to operate immediately. I guess I get to wear the boot and ride the scooter.
Another Scott
@Mandalay: Keep reading. It gets worse.
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
germy
Ruckus
@patrick II:
Their dads were successful but the sons probably never actually saw the dad work, they saw the success but not the how. My dad was successful, but I was there with him, watching, learning, being taught on occasion, being put in decision positions and sinking or swimming. I learned the how. In those that you mention that apprenticeship would be almost impossible to do, so they ended up with the name (and money) but not the how. And the how is the important part. Of course one has to at least have basic skills to grasp the how. One still has to have the ability to learn. drumpf knows everything, he doesn’t have to learn anything, so he didn’t.
germy
Just One More Canuck
@Brachiator: so they couldn’t pick up a phone and get the first hand information? You know, like a normal person would?
TenguPhule
Here we go again. He already tried this, was told it was illegal and now he’s back at it. Apparently hoping for new judges to make a different decision.
JFC and its only Monday.
rikyrah
@germy:
BWA HA HA HA HA H AH AHA H AH
TenguPhule
They suck at making excuses.
Ben Cisco
@Ruckus: Sad but true.
BroD
@rikyrah:
They’re not that good at excuses–see the attempt quoted by Brachiator @ 10.
TenguPhule
Every accusation is a confession.
rikyrah
@TenguPhule:
HOW did Israel get into this?
Sloane Peterson's knee therapist
@patrick II:
Maybe there’s hope for Donnie, Jr. after all?
germy
@rikyrah: Because of Omar’s mild comment about U.S. lawmakers and Israel.
People like Graham are still burning mad about that one.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: @rikyrah: The President, who conflates Judaism with Israel accused them in tweets this morning, and just a few minutes ago in a live press gaggle of being anti-Semitic and anti-Israel. Basically this is racism in defense of Judaism equated with Israel is no vice.
C Stars
Twitter just lit up about a press conference happening now. I can’t actually put eyes on the guy without having a severe anxiety reaction, but it sounds like he’s even wackier and more hideously unhinged than usual. Anyone watching? Wanna provide some second-hand commentary?
Ruckus
@BroD:
Doesn’t have to work forever, just long enough. Now of course you may be 100% right, it is an obvious problem, with the wrong solution. But if you aren’t trying to fix it, just hide it, it often works.
germy
@C Stars:
Don’t click on the link, because you’ll see him talking and gesticulating.
Cameron
@TenguPhule: Elaine Chao? Madam Turtle?
matt
Our country is so corrupt.
Gelfling 545
Just sent a small donation to Jaime Harrison because Graham has apparently lost his mind. Other reasons too, of course, but the demented babbling pushed the button.
Ruckus
@C Stars:
Helped a buddy install his new TV the other day, when we turned it on it went to faux news first off with shit for brains center stage on a big screen. I thought I was going to seize up. Managed to change the channel before blood started to shoot out the top of my head. Yeah, I don’t watch or listen to him either. I don’t even want to hear him apologize, I might listen if he was asking to be sent to jail for the rest of his life but other than that……
Kent
Listened to an interview with Dersh this morning on NPR.
Un-fucking-believable. The interviewer pressed him on his relationship with Epstein and cited repeated examples of Dersh flying alone and in company on Epstein’s private jet as well as Dersh flying down to Florida with his family on Epstein’s private jet and spending a week at his Palm Beach compound (Dersh says it was for his daughter’s soccer tourney…heh).
Then Dersh had the nerve to say….”We weren’t actually friends. It was just an academic relationship due to the Harvard connection”
Yeah. I have taught at the university level. And no, people don’t fly you on their private jets down to their Palm Beach compounds for a week. That is not a thing that actually ever happens in real academia.
These fuckers all need to be burned out of our national conversation.
germy
@Kent:
So he still thinks he can talk his way out of this.
Mandalay
@Adam L Silverman:
Well at least the ADL is calling Trump on that:
Adam L Silverman
@plato: Request for the armorer, in triplicate, submitted 72 hour prior to movement.
Munition requested:
1 Rocket, no launcher.
Explanation:
We have to move light, we’ll throw it at the enemy.
Ruckus
@germy:
Watching that is as bad as listening to him. He’s so sure of himself and every time he sticks it in the meat grinder. And no one wants to watch that.
Barbara
@Kent: I do think Alan Dershowitz is going to find his income as a guest on tv shows will be declining in the next year. It doesn’t seem like much of a punishment, although I bet he will see it as cruel and unusual. For him to say that he never saw underage girls at Epstein’s mansion in Florida takes a special kind of gall. But he has to say it. Once he lets on he knew there were young girls everything in his world risks falling apart or being taken away, even Harvard.
Mandalay
@Kent:
You could have stopped that sentence half way through and it still would have worked.
Brachiator
@matt:
Don’t worry. Trump is promising to make it more corrupt.
It’s hard not to be ghoulish about this. Trump isn’t flirting with racism. He is tongue kissing it, right in front of everyone.
germy
@Adam L Silverman: Any connection to Steve Bannon?
C Stars
@Ruckus: Yeah, I’ve never been a “Trigger Warning” type of person but with him I just…cannot. As the kids say.
I hate the automatic Fox News thing. It’s ALWAYS ON. Hotels, airports, everything. Which is so weird because as popular as it is, I know a minority of Americans actually believe that BS. Earlier in the year we happened to be in a rental car in North Carolina and every single station was tuned to Fox, or a right wing/fundie “christian”/country music station, pre-programmed 20-channels deep. So I spent about 15 minutes changing them all to local public radio stations, MSNBC, stations operating out of NYC, etc. It was such a small action and it made me feel so happy.
Adam L Silverman
@Kent: Look up what happened to Dersh’s first wife.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: No, he thinks that he can fly to Israel and claim citizenship under the Law of Return and avoid extradition before they arrest him if things get that far.
Bill Arnold
@TenguPhule:
Meanwhile, Trump (&team) appears to have successfully memory-holed his saying out loud, to an audience, that US Jews in the Republican Jewish Coalition have dual loyalty:
Trump tells US Jews that Netanyahu is ‘your prime minister’ (7 April 2019)
That’s some serious gaslighting in combination with projection-as-a-tactic.
I like Adam’s formulation @83, QFT:
TenguPhule
@Cameron:
Yep.
Bill Arnold
@Bill Arnold:
Editing is busted, by “That’s” I mean DJT’s current tweet stream.
TenguPhule
@Bill Arnold:
Our media is very very stupid. And forgetful.
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
They can be jury rigged into a bomb, so I wouldn’t make light of it.
Ruckus
@matt:
The country isn’t corrupt. A lot of people in it are, but the country isn’t. We still have mostly reasonable laws. But humans are corrupt and always will be, we have too many points of interference between us. We have differing ideals, or no ideals, we have differing needs and expectations. Some of those expectations are corrupt, usually the ones the corrupt people have. But the country isn’t corrupt. It is on the whole a good place, it’s for sure worth saving from the corrupt people, worth making it better, making it harder for corrupt people to steal every thing from. Look at the pictures on this very blog, from Friday’s marches from all around the country, regular people coming together to fight corruption and hate. It’s not a bad country, it just has a bunch of bad people living in it. And that’s just humanity. It’s not a bad country, we can gather together and protest it. We don’t have to run from it, it’s worth fixing. Not everyone on the planet can say that.
germy
@Adam L Silverman: Israel doesn’t extradite?
Bill Arnold
@Mandalay:
Guillotines not good enough for you? Would a giant egg slicer be sufficient? :-)
germy
@TenguPhule:
They are paid well to be both.
TenguPhule
Live report of Trump’s Shitfest.
Cheryl Rofer
Just gonna put this here, maybe write a post later.
Anyone remember “Lolita”? It came out, or became available in the US, when I was not much older than Lolita. A lot of “dirty books” were becoming available then, including Henry Miller’s opus. Might be hard for younger folks to think about a time when there was a lot nobody said in public.
“Lolita” was hailed as part of the opening up of literature to serious discussions of sexuality.
I was of an age when it was edgy to dip into those books. I read Miller, was unimpressed. But I couldn’t read past the first several pages of “Lolita.” I couldn’t believe that that was okay in any way. I was only a few years older than she was.
“Lolita” was felt to be great art, and it was by the highly respected Vladimir Nabokov.
They’ve been doing this forever.
patrick II
@Barbara:
Not just the serial rapist, but unnamed others will not be prosecuted — ever. How is that even legal? How does it give the young women an opportunity for justice against not just Epstein, but others who were involved in a pedophile ring. How could anyone go after them if they did not know they existed? Acosta should go away nearly as long as Epstein.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
He’s gone a lot farther than tongue. His pants are around his ankles and he’s smiling.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: I have no idea. I know the pro-Russian trolls are dragging all the reporting on this trying to claim that these are pro-Ukrainian forces using doctored imagery, etc.
TenguPhule
Fuck Schumer for letting him get in so easily.
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: I did a post on that at the time.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule:
germy
@Cheryl Rofer: I haven’t seen it, but apparently there was a documentary about the Rolling Stones’ bassist Bill Wyman. I don’t know if there was any mention of his activities with underage females, but somehow I doubt it.
He’s another example of “hiding in plain sight.”
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman: Its all fun and games until the IED blows up in someone’s face. //
Adam L Silverman
@germy: Remember Crazy Eddie? The guy who used to sell electronics in NY in the 1980s? Where’d he run too to escape prosecution? Israel. Why, because he claimed Right of Return.
My personal opinion is that this is also Jared and Ivanka’s escape plan too.
Finally, Dersh has long been considered to be, at least, an unofficial Israeli asset, but an Israeli asset nonetheless. That’s where he’s running and that’s who will protect him if he has to run.
Mike in NC
Somebody I know on Facebook posted a photo of Lindsey Graham tagging along with Pence at the border. He was looking over a group of detainees in an odd manner, as if trying to pick out a potential cabana boy.
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
Yeah, good pieces, I’m just more than a bit irritated that no press (that I’ve seen so far) on DJT’s current accusations mentions that RJC statement.
schrodingers_cat
@Cheryl Rofer: My classics book club at the Library read Lolita a couple of years ago. I did not participate because I couldn’t get beyond a few pages.
Barbara
@Cheryl Rofer: I’ve read Lolita twice. It’s hard going, for sure. Humbert Humbert, the protagonist, is never presented as a hero. Somebody with a conscience rescues Lolita from Humbert, but not from the consequences of having been abused. A book published a few years ago, “A Little Life” by Hanya Yanagihara, is vastly different in style but when I read it I couldn’t help thinking about it as a counterpoint to Lolita, because it was told through the child’s perspective. She also wrote People in the Trees, which is a fictional account of the story of D. Carleton Gajdusek, a serial child rapist who just happened to be a Nobel prize winning scientist.
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
Are there any other countries that the US is very friendly with that do not extradite to the US?
(I know, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties, but it’s a lot of reading.)
rikyrah
Don’t forget, the Preacher, the Poolboy, his wife, and pictures
germy
@Adam L Silverman: I remember Crazy Eddie; I couldn’t escape his commercials. I was vaguely aware he ended up in some criminality, but forgot the details. So all along he was crazy like a fox…
Barbara
@patrick II: Yes, indeed, it reads like the settlement of a civil lawsuit. It truly shocks the conscience. The least Acosta could have done was make that deal as narrow as possible, given the generosity of foregoing an indictment that could have resulted in a life in prison. Acosta either didn’t know what he was doing or was considering his own interests.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: There were only four viable options for a proper Secretary of Defense nomination:
1) Esper or Spencer as the only surviving Senate confirmed Service secretaries. Basically a promotion.
2) LTG (ret) Keane. Very conservative, but also reported of being an informal external advisor to Secretary Clinton when she was running State.
3) Senator Cotton
4) Secretary Pompeo.
Options 3 and 4 are unacceptable. Pompeo at State is bad enough. Either he or Cotton as SecDef would be catastrophically dangerous. LTG Keane would be okay. He knows and understands the DOD and the Services. Esper and Spence are really the best that could be hoped for at this point.
germy
@Mike in NC: [Ed McMahon voice]: “Hey oh!”
Barbara
@Bill Arnold: Switzerland doesn’t extradite for most of the offenses for which people flee to Switzerland, that is, financial crimes. That’s how Marc Rich was able to escape U.S. jurisdiction. A lot of countries, including Canada, will not extradite to the U.S. if a person faces the death penalty or other judicial processes that are deemed to be unfair in the country where they ended up.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: I’m very aware.
opiejeanne
@C Stars: Trump is Mad Lord Snapcase.
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: Drinking from the firehose effect. Too much noise to focus on the actual signal or signals.
Bill Arnold
@Ben Cisco:
Well, there’s this. One could seriously argue that the US authoritarian right is socialist, but “communist” would be a stretch. Unless they have an alt definition of communism which applies to them, which is possible and would save the Law of Republican Projection.
Graham declines to condemn racist Trump tweets and calls Democratic congresswomen ‘a bunch of communists’ (Devan Cole, Mon July 15, 2019)
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: As someone who has no plan to escape extradition back to the US, I do not keep a memorized list.
Tom Q
Getting in on this a bit late, but, for those wondering why NYers elected such a seemingly corrupt guy as Vance:
1) He ran originally as the progressive alternative to a woman who was pushing for stuff like more death penalty prosecutions. And of course Vance’s father was highly regarded.
2) By the time the Javanka/Weinstein stuff emerged in 2017, Vance had already won the renomination primary. The only recourse voters had was to check the write-in option with a specific name. I did this (thanks to a friend who had info on the guy running), but this opponent had no money and extremely limited time (a few weeks, at most), which made it an impossible task.
3) I never saw any specific media reports about how many write-in votes were cast, but I caught a murmured “maybe as many as 50,000” from a local TV station. Far from enough to do the job, but indicative of how vulnerable he might be with a legitimate campaign not hobbled from the start.
4) I think the Epstein thing on top of this should do him in. Manhattan, as we know, is anti-Trump ground zero, and Vance is looking more and more like someone who can be lashed to Trump associates.
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman: Schumer should still make McConnell work for it. Not making it easy for him.
Brachiator
@TenguPhule:
Some radio talk show host was furiously trying to turn this into “both sides are at fault.” I had to turn the radio off, just too much bullshit.
I suspect that this is, for now, the official right wing talking point to try to soft pedal a defense of Trump.
Trump can’t be racist. He’s too busy being racist.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: Here’s his obit from The Times of Israel. The Israelis did, eventually, extradite him back to the US for trial.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/eddie-antar-one-time-crazy-eddie-and-fraudster-dead-at-68/
Humdog
My 7th grade English teacher assigned, just to me, Lolita and Brave New World. I found them very disturbing, but dutifully read them through. I did wonder why he wanted to meet me at lunch in the wood shop room to talk about the books, until I realized there were no windows at person level in wood shop. He chased me around the room until I found my way to the door.
Lolita, particularly, in its somewhat sympathetic viewpoint toward Humbert’s Desires, can be used to prepare someone for abuse.
Captain C
@germy: It’s easier to pass when you’re a billionaire with blackmail material in your safe.
Brachiator
@Bill Arnold:
Wasn’t Putin a communist? Isn’t Kim still a communist? Doesn’t Trump talk about the beautiful love letters he and Kim exchange? Doesn’t this make Trump a commie lover?
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: I don’t disagree.
jl
@rikyrah: The history of ‘persons’ is ugly. But in representative democracy, apportionment and representation needs to be in terms of persons not citizens. So, I’m not going to slam the concept of it based on the ugly origins of the idea.
And, important to remember that we have forgotten our history. US citizenship was not an ironclad gold standard for participation in the political system at state and local levels for most of our history. Many states explicitly allowed people who did not have US citizenship to vote in local and state elections. Establishing minimum residency requirement was more important. IIRC, Alabama was the last state to require US citizenship to vote in state and local elections. The idea of allowing people who were not citizens to vote was wiped out during the Great Depression, but the root cause was more about economic reasons: too many people not enough jobs, so we had to find an excuse to get rid of people ad try to keep people out.
We can’t have open borders now because of the risk of terrorism and more powerful techniques for espionage ,and I guess since rise of Trumpsters, big money and cyber foreign government influence in elections. But most of US history was built on open borders, with a much more relaxed attitude towards citizenship criteria for participation in US political life.
The BS about losing the country’s identity, danger to our way of life, what the Founders intended, is a scam BS a damned lie. Full stop, Period. End of Story.
Cameron
@germy: Was he the one who married his son’s girlfriend? And leave us not forget the intergenerational, intrafamilial hijinx some years back at that institute of conservative decorum, Hillsdale College.
Martin
@Ruckus: I think your argument is getting steadily weaker given court upholding of gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc. We’re shockingly close to a point where you can overtly bribe the President and USSC is saying ‘no problem’ given that Congress’s options for oversight are unclear and becoming more restricted, and Trump controls the DOJ. So far the WH has gotten away with ‘absolute immunity’. Congress doesn’t know how to enforce subpoena because there’s no DOJ independence.
The institutions that protect the US from corruption are pretty busted, and each test is currently more likely to remove protections than to uphold them. Additionally, a democracy that is structured for minority rule through gerrymandering, census manipulation, etc. is inherently corrupt as a democracy.
Barbara
@Adam L Silverman: It’s not like Israel wants to be saddled with the worst of our worst, but its laws were drafted through a very different lens. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/2014/02/24/35055de4-9d74-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html?_=ddid-5-1563215100&utm_term=.aeeaed5fdcb4
PJ
@Cheryl Rofer: I thought Lolita was overrated (the prose is noxiously flowery), but it’s a serious work of moral fiction. Humbert Humbert, the narrator (and pedophile), sees himself as a sensitive aesthete who is genuinely concerned with Lolita’s welfare, but the reader sees that he is deluded, close-minded, controlling, narcissistic, vicious, cruel, and ultimately murderous. If he has a saving grace, it’s that, by the end of the book, he realizes that he is a monster.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: The “maniacal pitchman”, BTW, wasn’t Antar himself, but an actor and former radio DJ.
rikyrah
@Wapiti:
the movie Taken….now, considered a documentary
Kent
@Cheryl Rofer: Wasn’t just Lolita.
Back in the 80s there were a shitload of voyeristic borderline child porn movies using underage actresses like Brooke Shields as a 12 year old child hooker in Pretty Baby and Blue Lagoon, Jodi Foster in Taxi, also as a 12 year old hooker, Mariel Hemmingway in Manhattan, Nastassja Kinski in Tess (by Roman Polanski no less) and so forth.
Older men have always been creeps about younger girls and have had no shame about it pretty much forever.
Brachiator
@jl:
The US seemed bigger and emptier. We still have lots of room, but perceptions have changed immensely.
Totally agree with you on this point.
PJ
@Adam L Silverman: This reminded me of the Samuel Sheinbein/Freddie Tello case (where a Jewish teenager and his friend murdered and chopped up another friend, and he then fled to Israel, where the Israeli Supreme Court blocked extradition), but according to Wikipedia you also have to be considered an Israeli “resident” now to avoid extradition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Sheinbein I have a feeling some exception would be made for Dershowitz and the Kushners.
germy
@Kent: And The Blue Lagoon was based on a novel from 1908. There was a Broadway play based on it in the 1920s. (I only know this because I read a collection of Robert Benchley theater criticism essays.)
The ’20s Broadway play was probably racier than the 1980 movie. (Benchley mentions the lack of costumes.)
Brachiator
@Kent:
Kubrick’s 1962 adaptation of Lolita is a great film (and yes, problematic for many viewers). Taxi Driver was released in 1976. Manhattan and Tess were both released in 1979. I’m not too sure what you would do about Hardy’s 1891 novel, the source of Tess. Life and literature can be complicated.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
Its banana pants, now their official defense is that only offenses against white people are racist. You can’t make this shit up.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
FOX News has rehabilitated them into socialists. I wish this was a joke.
Barbara
@PJ: I posted a link about this too. A lot of Israelis were just as disgusted about that case as people in the U.S. were. Sheinbein was a psychopath. His father was disbarred for helping him escape. If Epstein has actually been working for the Israeli government then I don’t know what would happen, but I can’t believe many Israelis would welcome him to their country with open arms.
Adam L Silverman
@Barbara: I’m quite aware.
Kent
@Brachiator: Well, OK, 70s and 80s. Point is, older men have been doing this voyeristic borderline pedophile stuff in film and literature since pretty much forever.
I teach HS students and this stuff just creeps me out. I can’t even imagine trying to have a relationship with a teen. What would you even talk about? The latest tiktok vine?
tokyokie
@PJ: I think your optimism is based on Israel not having a corrupt, kleptocratic government, and as long as Netanyahu is prime minister, that definitely is not the case.
NY Robbin
@germy:
Well, NPR (Nice Polite Republicans) is doing its best to help him . . .
Miss Bianca
@Kent:
Man, I’m so old, I still think Tiktok is the mechanical man in the “Wizard of Oz” books. So what a “tiktok vine” would be, boggles me completely.
Brachiator
@Kent:
Marguerite Dura’s, “The Lover.” And also “Story of O.”
I note your concerns, but transgressive literature is not solely the domain of older men.
Brachiator
@TenguPhule:
Wow. And yet these same dopes will say that Wilmer is dangerous because he is a socialist. Fox News and their fellow travelers are masters of this shit. They will lie, distort the facts, contradict themselves in order to protect Republicans and right wing conservatives.
laura
@patrick II: Sheesh patrick II, There. Never. Was. A. Plan. For. Justice. For. Girls.
Do you not understand misogyny?
Women aren’t people.
Girls aren’t people.
They are things to be used and disgarded.
Barbara
@Kent: I think it creeps most people out, however, at least with Lolita, I do feel that Nabokov had a lot of insight into how men are able to rationalize preying on young girls. One of the most dishonest aspects of the movie made of the book is that the actress (Sue Lyon) who played Lolita was definitely older than the 12 year old child in the book.
Found this:
Shana
@Sloane Peterson’s knee therapist: What’s that saying? “Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations.”
soga98
@Adam L Silverman:
If Meyer Lansky could do it…