Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

The words do not have to be perfect.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Republicans in disarray!

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Cancel the cowardly WaPo and set up an equivalent monthly donation to ProPublica.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

Everybody saw this coming.

No one could have predicted…

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

You are here: Home / Politics / Mueller Report / Wednesday Open Thread

Wednesday Open Thread

by | 207 Comments

This post is in: , , , , , , ,

There are several Mueller thread(s) below this post. I haven’t been watching, so I have no idea if the testimony is ongoing, but the latest thread is getting way long, so here’s a new one.

From what I gather from occasional glances at Twitter, the hearing aired facts established by the written report, including that: 1) the report didn’t exonerate Trump, 2) Russia fucked with our election for the purpose of helping to elect Trump, 3) the Trump campaign eagerly welcomed that help, 4) Trump obstructed the investigation.

However, the emerging media consensus seems to be that the hearings were a huge victory for Trump and the Republicans because 1) Mueller is old, and 2) pundits and reporters are bored with the proceedings. Does that about sum it up?

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

207Comments

  1. 1.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    However, the emerging media consensus seems to be that the hearings were a huge victory for Trump and the Republicans because 1) Mueller is old, and 2) pundits and reporters are bored with the proceedings. Does that about sum it up?

    Yup. I’m trying to remember… wasn’t there a recent case where the pundits all declared some hearings a flop and it turned out there was a lot of public interest? I may be thinking of how that past-his-sell-by-date asshole James Carville screamed everyone on every network into declaring the blue wave a bust after Florida, but I swear there was something else in the last year or so, almost certainly something trump-Russia related.

  2. 2.

    Jerzy Russian

    However, the emerging media consensus seems to be that the hearings were a huge victory for Trump and the Republicans because 1) Mueller is old, and 2) pundits and reporters are bored with the proceedings.

    We need those robots who go around and deliver knees to the groin after a stupid utterance is uttered. I recognize that many people will constantly be getting knees to the groin, and that seems harsh, but it would be on them for uttering stupid utterances.

  3. 3.

    West of the Rockies

    Your take, BC, sounds about right. I’m waiting for what the evening MSNBC folks have to say, especially RM, Lawrence and whatever panel Brian assembles. Chuckles’ hot takes are worth very little.

  5. 5.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The Villagers continue to display their collaborationist, treasonous tendencies.

    Wipe them out. All of them.

  8. 8.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Jonathan Lemire says that trump and giuliani and Fredo are gleeful over how halting and slow Mueller was this morning. Those three word-salad-shooting morons are gonna talk about someone being inarticulate?

    on the pundit class, put me down with this guy

    Jonathan Allen @ jonallendc
    I must be watching a different hearing than the rest of the punditry. What I’ve seen here is Mueller make very clear that he believes the president obstructed justice. That was true in the report, but his testimony went further. It may not be exciting to watch, but it’s serious.

  11. 11.

    Martin

    I think Schiff made the case at the end, that the limited scope of Muellers investigation, which Mueller notes, requires Congress to investigate, particularly given Muellers acknowledgement of lies by the administration and efforts to cover up. Mueller doesn’t have answers, because he didn’t seek those answers for a variety of frustrating but reasonable reasons, but Mueller cannot tell Congress that there’s nothing to be found there either.

    I mean, this is basically what a grand jury does. There’s sufficient evidence to investigate further. Democrats wanted an impeachment referral and I think they got one.

  12. 12.

    rikyrah

    And folks wonder why the trust in Law Enforcement is at an all time low for some communities:

    Chicago Police Have Been Compiling Dossiers on People Who Speak at Police Board Meetings

    Monique Judge
    Today 9:55am

    Why would the Chicago Police Department be running background checks on people who sign up to speak at public meetings of the city’s police disciplinary panel?

    That is what many people want to know after a public records request conducted by the Chicago Tribune revealed that since January 2018, CPD has collected information on at least 60 people in advance of their speaking at the weekly meetings—a practice that police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi confirmed has been going on since at least 2013.

    From the Tribune:

    The checks appear to be extensive, with police searching at least one internal department database to determine if speakers have arrest or prison records, warrants outstanding for their arrest, investigative alerts issued for them by the department and even if they’re registered sex offenders or missing persons. Police also searched comments that speakers had previously made on YouTube or on their Facebook and Twitter accounts, among other internet sites, the documents show.

    Among those subjected to background checks were a woman who alleged she was sexually assaulted decades ago by a Chicago police officer, a community activist who gained prominence after the fatal shooting of Laquan McDonald by a police officer and a 77-year-old man known for his frequent, flamboyant rants on a variety of topics at public meetings across the city.

  13. 13.

    waratah

    I was not able to watch all of it had to go and have blood drawn for testing.
    I was glad to see the TV was set to the hearing so was able to watch a little more.
    I think you have the the media right, I would like to think they will rethink that position.

  14. 14.

    Mary G

    I didn’t watch it, and thank the jackaltariat for keeping me up to date. What I’m getting from Twitter is that Chuck Todd and the self-appointed judges at the FTFNYT are doing the “move along, nothing to see here” dismissals, and getting blowback from the reality-based community.

    Sometimes I wonder if Putin, instead of killing American journalists like he does at home, has gotten kompromat on the big names and dictating what they say.

    Then again, most of them are full enough of themselves and toadies to the rich and powerful, not to mention chuffed with the crumbs of access they get, that they do it on their own.

  16. 16.

    rikyrah

    Ilhan Omar Has Exactly Zero Time for This Lady’s Nonsense

    Naomi LaChance
    Today 7:45am

    Ilhan Omar, easily the coolest member of “the Squad,” was asked a question on Tuesday that she called “frustrating” and “appalling.”

    During a panel at the Muslim Caucus Education Collective’s Conference in Washington, D.C., Ani Osman-Zonneveld of the human rights group Muslims for Progressive Values asked Omar to condemn female genital mutilation (FGM).

    “I’d like to know will you be able to make a statement against FGM, because that’s an issue in Detroit,” she said. “It would be really powerful if the two Muslim congresswomen, yourself and Rashida [Tlaib, a Democrat from Michigan], would make a statement on this issue.”

    Omar responded:

    “Your second question is an appalling question because there are bills that we vote on, bills we sponsor, many statements we put out, and then we’re in a panel like this and the question is posed: ‘could you and Rashida do this?’ And it’s like, how often—should I make a schedule? Does this need to be on repeat every five minutes? Should I be like, ‘So today I forgot to condemn al-Qaeda, so here’s the al-Qaeda one, today I forgot to condemn FGM, so here it goes, today I forgot to condemn Hamas, so here it goes, you know what I mean?

  17. 17.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was thinking the same thing, and for the life of me, I can’t remember what it was that the media got so wrong. Maybe it was the report release itself? After Barr’s song and dance, most of the MSM declared Trump exonerated or at least that the matter was put to rest, but people didn’t buy it.

    @janesays: Wallace is surprisingly good, from what I’ve seen. I wouldn’t have predicted that when she was hired.

  18. 18.

    jl

    Chuck Todd has ESP and can divine how the general public perceived the proceedings and he knows it is a PR disaster. You can tell from the shit eating gap he wears on his face.

    As an informed person who understand the facts and history, from what he’s said, he think the Democrats ‘won’, but it isn’t his job to go into that aspect, as a news person.

    Edit: IMHO, even using words like ‘won’ isn’t responsible journalism for things like this, so Todd and his ilk flunk even the most elementary tests of how to report anything, even fire department rescuing a kttty from a tree. The are can’t figure out who ‘won’ and have to search for irony, which leads to more trouble.

  19. 19.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Martin: There’s sufficient evidence to investigate further. Democrats wanted an impeachment referral and I think they got one.
    My sense was underneath all the rectitude and reticence, he was calling for an Congressional action. The TeeVee lawyers tell me that the only way around all the trump obstruction in the face of oversight and subpoenas, is an officially designated impeachment inquiry.

    Brian Beutler @ brianbeutler
    After six months of watching the chairmen operate, hard to avoid the conclusion that if Democrats ever decide to launch an impeachment inquiry, it should be conducted by a special committee chaired by Adam Schiff, and not by Judiciary.

  20. 20.

    rikyrah

    Here is Fox’s Brian Kilmeade Making a Wildly Racist Freudian Slip

    Jack Mirkinson
    Yesterday 11:59am

    Brian Kilmeade warns that immigration threatens to “destroy the color of — the culture of the country.” https://t.co/2KeWb8mIST pic.twitter.com/xJd4c46WxG

    — Bobby Lewis (@revrrlewis) July 23, 2019

    Whoopsie! Surely Kilmeade—an intelligent man who once complained that “we keep marrying other species and other ethnics”—did not mean to say such a bad thing.

    I should note that saying that immigrants are threatening the “culture” of the country, rather than the “color,” is equally dangerous and bigoted, but that is the type of thing that happens every day on Fox & Friends.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    @rikyrah:

    Good for her. It’s a perennial problem for Dems on a lot of issues. They’re always asked to prove themselves over and over again, and it’s never good enough. Her response is the right one. Don’t pretend like you have something to prove.

  23. 23.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Betty Cracker: maybe it was the initial release, when polls showed that a majority of people, who being a majority hadn’t read the report, thought that trump had committed crimes, even if they didn’t think that warranted impeachment.

  24. 24.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Sam Brodey @ sambrodey
    Rep. Krishnamoorthi (D-IL) told us he was surprised when Mueller told him there are ongoing FBI counter-intelligence investigations into Trumpworld figures

    “Yes, that was news,” said Krishnamoorthi. “I didn’t anticipate that.”

    also, too:

    Adam Parkhomenko @ AdamParkhomenko
    Breaking: Pelosi, Schiff and Nadler will hold a press conference 35 minutes from now: 4:45 PM in Washington.

    hmmm…. I think one of those things may not be like the others

  26. 26.

    Tazj

    Trump welcomed Russian interference and obstructed justice and would be indicted if he weren’t president, but the optics were bad for Democrats as always according to Chuck Todd.
    Peter Baker and Maggie Haberman were opining that this would all be forgotten about tomorrow, and then whining about getting called on their BS. After all they can’t control what people are interested in, they have no power at all. A groin kicking robot doesn’t sound too horrible.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    I wasn’t able to watch but from the comments here, sounds like the Dems deserve kudos for a solid job.

  28. 28.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud:

    They were very organized and efficient.

    Mueller was more befuddled than I expected. He really didn’t want to be there. But it’s all in the report. They were just getting the most important points out there. Of course the media will continue to ignore it.

  31. 31.

    tokyokie

    @Jerzy Russian: I must strenuously disagree with your idea. It presupposes all the groins that would be kicked contain testicles and therefore would suffer intense pain. I don’t think this is a safe assumption in regard to Republicans, especially Republican men. I prefer each of them being assigned a minder armed who a cattle prod, who zaps them every time they say something that’s a load of crap. Of course, the minders would need to keep lots of extra batteries close at hand because of the frequency with which they would deploy the cattle prods.

  32. 32.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    This all reminds me of the first Obama Romeny debate were the pundits screamed Mittens won because Obama was boring and only factually correct. More signs the broadcast news turned into a version of Big Time Wrestling.

  34. 34.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Jerzy Russian:

    We need those robots who go around and deliver knees to the groin after a stupid utterance is uttered.

    Please tell the class more about these groin-kicking robots.

  36. 36.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Villago Delenda Est: Would you settle for Hillary being allowed to cave in both sides of Chuck Todd’s bothsiderist bullshit face?

    It’s been my wish for Chuckles for a few years now.

  37. 37.

    James E Powell

    From the first day of Trump’s campaign, up to this day, the press/media have been his promoters and protectors. Chuck Todd and Haberman were calling this hearing a failure before it was over. Some people ridicule me for saying this, but Trump is the best thing to happen to the press/media since 9/11. They do not want to lose him. He is making careers happen.

    If he loses in 2020, they will immediately turn into the most ardent enforcers of every norm of political behavior that they have ignored with respect to Trump. It won’t even take that, really. During the 2020 campaign they will be demanding that the Democratic candidates adhere to those norms.

  38. 38.

    James E Powell

    @Martin:

    Democrats wanted an impeachment referral and I think they got one.

    I think it would be accurate to say that some Democrats wanted one while others did not.

  39. 39.

    Elizabelle

    It’s been moved to 5:15 p today. C-Span.

    Speaker Pelosi Press Conference with Judiciary and Intelligence Committee Chairs
    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is joined by Judiciary and Intelligence Committee Chairs Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) and Adam Schiff (D-CA) to speak to the press after hearing testimony from Special Counsel Robert Mueller to those committees.

  40. 40.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Baud:

    Also, is treason really as interesting as subject as email server management?

    Oh Baud… Allow me to explain. BUT HER EMAILS!

    Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

  41. 41.

    Death Panel Truck

    3) House Democratic leaders throw up their hands and say, “Hey, nothing we can do. Let’s just beat him in an election.”

    **sigh**

  42. 42.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Betty Cracker:

    Wallace deserves an evening slot. Her show often has better panels of talking heads, and the discussions are “slower” and deeper than, say, Chris Matthews’s staccato yelling and grandpa questions. “What are the Democrats supposed to do with this guy Trump?!”

  47. 47.

    Tom Levenson

    I don’t have a fish scaler rusty enough for the disemboweling of the Village idiots.

  48. 48.

    notoriousJRT

    My hope that these hot takes described by BC cool off – sort of like the “Where’s the Blue Wave?” narrative. What Nancy Smash does is gonna crush or encourage me.

  50. 50.

    Tazj

    @James E Powell: I think you’re right. Too busy with your own life and problems to watch the news or pay for a newspaper? With Trump you better pay attention.

  51. 51.

    The Moar You Know

    The pundits and reporters haven’t finished running the string on this Trump trade yet, so expect everything that was said today to be ignored or swept under the rug.

    The media NEED Trump. He is a cash cow that does not ever stop making them money and they are not going to let him go without a fight.

  53. 53.

    Jay

    In less than 16 days from the time the first news broke of his horrible and hateful comments, Puerto Rican Gov. Ricardo Rosselló is expected to resign after mass protests. I can't even recall all the horrible shit Trump has done in the last 16 days.Well done, Puerto Rico. ??— Charlotte Clymer?️‍? (@cmclymer) July 24, 2019

  56. 56.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @The Moar You Know:

    The media NEED Trump. He is a cash cow that does not ever stop making them money and they are not going to let him go without a fight.

    It’s not just that; Trump’s one of their tribe with his show on MSNBC.

  57. 57.

    mrmoshpotato

    if Obama had ever tried to claim that Article II of the Constitution put him above the law and gave him unlimited executive powers, he would have been impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate before all of the words had even finished coming out of his mouth— Jeff Tiedrich (@itsJeffTiedrich) July 24, 2019

    Yup.

  58. 58.

    Patricia Kayden

    @rikyrah: The color and culture of this country was changed when Europeans came over here and started pushing Native Americans off their land and committing genocide to do so. Kilmeade can sit down and shut up about migrants changing the color and culture of the U.S. as if White people are special. Please.

  59. 59.

    kindness

    I haven’t watched any TV today. The papers I read seem to all say Trump lied, Barr lied. So they are not parroting the Republican line. Don’t be depressed just because Chuck Todd is still employed. Just don’t watch Chuck Todd as he’s useless anyhow.

  60. 60.

    dww44

    @Elizabelle: Came back to check as I went downstairs to check on my tv for the promised pc at 4:45 and all I got was a triumphant Trump holding forth on the White House lawn with his helicopter in the background and then Blitzer saying how this was a win for the President. For a change I do hope that the 3 ranking Dems have their best verbal skills on the ready to and can somehow put a dent in the GOP meme train that’s in total control of the airwaves now.

  62. 62.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    However, the emerging media consensus seems to be that the hearings were a huge victory for Trump and the Republicans because

    The Broderites like to say impeachment would help Dump politically, now they’re contradicting themselves, saying, not impeaching him helps him.

  73. 73.

    bemused

    @dww44:

    True he’s tolerably better than Matthews or Todd.
    Surely msnbc can come up with another show as good as Nicolle Wallace’s show.

  77. 77.

    Baud

    @rikyrah:

    Brian Kilmeade warns that immigration threatens to “destroy the color of — the culture of the country.” 

    That color and culture produced Trump so I’m not sure why that’s a bad thing.

  79. 79.

    Ella in New Mexico

    However, the emerging media consensus seems to be that the hearings were a huge victory for Trump and the Republicans because 1) Mueller is old, and 2) pundits and reporters are bored with the proceedings. Does that about sum it up?

    Been sitting bedside with my Mom in the hospital watching all day, and I can say MSNBC-particularly Nicole Wallace–is not really coming off that way for me. They’re a little frustrated with Mueller’s hesitancy but overall they’re hitting on all 8 cylinders in repeating the key points and in mocking the Republicans and Trump’s pathetic responses today.

  80. 80.

    Elizabelle

    @misterpuff: Yeah. Brian Williams fawns too much over the best of the best appearing on his show, and he does Broder on too much. I rarely get through much of his show. Too many fuckwits poised for “Democrats in Disarray!” all night long.

  81. 81.

    Baud

    Vox

    Indeed, politically, the testimony seems more likely to be the last hurrah for the Trump-Russia scandal than its revival. Most Democrats continue to oppose impeachment, and even if that changed, acquittal in the Republican-controlled Senate is certain. So Trump may well have tried to obstruct justice — and gotten away with it.

    So apparently it was a win for Trump because it didn’t change Republican hearts and minds.

  83. 83.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @janesays:

    Nicolle Wallace, the ostensible Republican, is giving far superior takes on how these hearings went than monumental d-bag Chuck Todd.

    Totally agree, and she’s been doing some of the best work for months now. Hers and Rachel Maddow’s shows are really the only two on MSNBC I care to watch anymore.

  90. 90.

    Haroldo

    @Baud:

    Fuck Vox. Who in their right mind would ever countenance the Senate voting for impeachment? That never was in the cards and it’s disingenuous to imply that it ever was. The value to impeachment by the house will be leading up to the 2020 election.

  91. 91.

    debbie

    This “Mueller is old” crap needs to stop. The Rethuglicans need to be reminded of “Covefe!” “Hamberder” and any number of other dementia-ridden utterances by Trump.

    And fuck Gym Jordan.

  92. 92.

    Chris Johnson

    @Mary G:

    Sometimes I wonder if Putin, instead of killing American journalists like he does at home, has gotten kompromat on the big names and dictating what they say.

    I would say that answer is YES. And I also think that has a lot to do with why Epstein, and Trump, did so well for so many decades. Russia is smart enough to play a long game and had scores to settle. I’m not entirely sure how instruction is communicated, other than ‘stochastic’ (someone puts out there, “Clearly this is a nothingburger” and then that’s the marching orders). I think Hannity is in it up to his neck. There are specific people who are closer to the moving parts here than others. Manafort is one. I’m certain Pence is another, and that’s why he is extremely careful to not blow his cover.

    I don’t know who exactly in media is pulling the strings, but the NYT reeks of ‘enemy action’ to the point where we at Balloon Juice have been fulminating against them for years, as if they were simply incompetent rather than directed by enemies.

    A lot of the shit that goes down lately doesn’t shock me. The thing to bear in mind here is that though there’s lots of enemy action and compromised people (who was it that said the capitalist West would sell Russia the rope used to hang the West? Nailed it) it is NOT a done deal. We’re starting to see what happened.

    So the talking point is futility and confusion, and that too is enemy action.

    But it is not futile. Stay steady. More will be revealed.

  93. 93.

    lurker dean

    we’ll see what’s up.

    Pelosi just privately told her members that they need to stay focused – but also indicated that if they need to support an impeachment inquiry, she respects that and must do what’s best for their district, per sources. She said Dems need to move forward in courts— Manu Raju (@mkraju) July 24, 2019

  94. 94.

    Baud

    @Haroldo:

    Vox is definitely on the GOP-won trip. Several stories. I actually didn’t see the hearing so I can’t assess for myself.

  95. 95.

    NotMax

    Looks like I picked a good day to put 150 miles on Mom’s car driving her around to take care of some business she needed done.

    ;)

  96. 96.

    bemused

    Watching, waiting for presser on span and can’t help but notice that if women who are on tv a lot aren’t worried about their dark hair roots showing, why should I?

  97. 97.

    Chris Johnson

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Rep. Krishnamoorthi (D-IL) told us he was surprised when Mueller told him there are ongoing FBI counter-intelligence investigations into Trumpworld figures
    “Yes, that was news,” said Krishnamoorthi. “I didn’t anticipate that.”

    Oh, good! I missed that one. Guess it wasn’t considered newsworthy. Can’t imagine why.

    Yes. there absolutely should be ongoing investigations. I like that confirmation, it sounds suspiciously like things are happening and all is not lost (though granted, we’re pretty fucked in a number of ways, but this is how we work our way through that damage)

    YES there should be the ongoing investigations that are indeed apparently happening. Good. More please. I’m sure it’s obvious to those whose job it is to do the investigations, because the bad guys here (like in Watergate) are not smart guys. Just very bold.

  98. 98.

    Haroldo

    And just to demonstrate we’re not alone in this, today the UK flew tits-over-teakettle into fascism with Boris Johnson and the most reactionary cabinet imaginable taking office.

  100. 100.

    Chyron HR

    @mrmoshpotato:

    if Obama had ever tried to claim that Article II of the Constitution put him above the law and gave him unlimited executive powers, he would have been impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate before all of the words had even finished coming out of his mouth assassinated.

  101. 101.

    Another Scott

    Twitter:

    Nancy Pelosi Verified account @SpeakerPelosi

    .@RepAdamSchiff & @RepJerryNadler will join me shortly to discuss Special Counsel Mueller’s testimony about Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election & @realDonaldTrump’s actions to obstruct the investigation.

    Tune in here: https://www.facebook.com/NancyPelosi/

    1:59 PM – 24 Jul 2019

    It would be nice if the live video were available in another place as well. Some of us aren’t on that platform, for good reasons…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  102. 102.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Baud: she says she resigned from the gop. plus she’s wildly of Warren on policy grounds. often mentions Obama was an “extraordinary president”. what’s that old saying, “there’s no zealot like a convert”.

  103. 103.

    Jay

    Today in summary.Trump: I was totally exonerated.
    Mueller: Nope.
    Trump: This is a witchhunt & hoax.
    Mueller: Nope.
    Trump: Twelve angry Dems put together this report.
    Mueller: Nope.
    Trump: Mueller interviewed for FBI director job.
    Mueller: Nope.— Yamiche Alcindor (@Yamiche) July 24, 2019

  108. 108.

    Elizabelle

    She leads with $40+ million recovered by the Mueller investigation. Has a chart up there.

  110. 110.

    debbie

    I listened to just about all of the hearings on NPR, and to me, this was the most ominous statement made by any of the Rethuglicans. Of course, it came from Gym Jordan:

    “Maybe a better course of action is to figure out how the false accusations started. Maybe it’s to go back and actually figure out why Joseph Mifsud was lying to the FBI. Here’s the good news–that’s exactly what Bill Barr is doing. And thank goodness for that,” Jordan said.

    Looking at a photo, I guess he forgot his jacket again.

  112. 112.

    p.a.

    Sadly, don’t impute conspiracy when incompetence will suffice, at least as far as non-Fox journalism. Only a class outlook and slothful intellect is needed. As for Putin and Rethugs, yes; smoke and fire, and a shared ideology of whiteness. Fox/Murdoch is sui generis as creator, enabler, and publicist. It is mining fertile ground.

  113. 113.

    lamh36

    Folks talking bout Pelosi need to go…ok…who’s gonna replace her…cause you can bet it won’t her some pro-impeachment “squad” member??

    ‪Tell me who is likely to be her successor…I suspect when Pelosi does leave the speakership, we will never see the type of Dem unification and solid voting count strength again.‬

    ‪And I hope folks are ready for that esp those who say she needs to go now…IJS‬

  115. 115.

    Baud

    @lamh36:

    Pelosi isn’t going anywhere. Maybe she’ll step down after we win back the White House. Anything before that is just internet circle jerking.

  116. 116.

    Brachiator

    I didn’t watch the hearings. I had to get a shingles shot. The shot didn’t hurt, but my arm is a little sore.

    Mueller is old. I’m old. Trump is still a lying sack of shit.

  120. 120.

    Jay

    "There was a senator — I think it was after the pancreatic cancer — who announced with great glee that I was going to be dead within six months. That senator — whose name I've forgotten — is now himself dead. And I am very much alive," Ginsburg said. https://t.co/kdVKDDQp6l— CNN (@CNN) July 24, 2019

  121. 121.

    Haroldo

    @Baud:

    The Benny Hill show was not meant to be an instruction manual. The Tories didn’t get the memo.

  125. 125.

    Elizabelle

    Elijah Cummings is bringing it at this presser. I hope you are watching. Speaking on the threat to our democracy, and acting for history.

  128. 128.

    bystander

    Elijah Cummings just delivered a haymaker. Schiff is always great. And hope to shake Nadler’s hand one day.

  129. 129.

    Kay

    I didn’t listen- I was busy today but I listened to NPR on the way home and they said Mueller was BORING and OLD :)

    I loathe these people. Really.

  130. 130.

    Haroldo

    @Jay:

    Your Twitter curation is almost, almost enough to make me sign up and mine its perfervid depths. But only almost. I will continue to rely on your sterling work.

  131. 131.

    Elizabelle

    Pelosi says leadership is waiting on some Court cases before moving forward. Reminds people about Watergate and obtaining the tapes. Nadler said they have a case to be decided imminently that touches on whether they can order McGahn to appear. That a decision there will break the logjam of witnesses who are refusing to appear.

  132. 132.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    It’s so frustrating how superficial, how completely lacking in substance the majority of news coverage is.

  137. 137.

    Elizabelle

    We want to have the strongest possible case (to decide on the path to move forward), and …. will not be an unlimited amount of time.

    If they keep being stonewalled by the White House, they will move forward. — Pelosi

    Cummings: We refuse to betray generations yet unborn …. stresses how the White House lawyers deflect at every point. Patience, grasshoppers. (Me. not him.)

  138. 138.

    Elizabelle

    Pelosi is clearly saying they are dotting their i’s and crossing their t’s. But do not have unlimited patience. Or time.

    At least, to me. And no doubt to the lawyers watching at the White House.

  140. 140.

    Elizabelle

    Schiff speaking about greed in runup to 2016, the Trump Tower discussion, all the lies that permeated the campaign and its aftermath.

    Re impeachment: before I brought a case to indictment, I wanted to make sure I had the strongest … possible. …. Has no illusions about getting a conviction in the Senate. Two juries — one being the American people.

    Wants to make sure we can make the case for impeachment to the American people.

  141. 141.

    Kay

    Maggie Haberman Retweeted

    Trip Gabriel
    ‏@tripgabriel
    8h8 hours ago
    More
    NYT colleagues reax to Mueller:
    @adamgoldmanNYT:
    So far, this hearing is not revealing new ground…By tomorrow it could be forgotten in this frenetic news cycle.
    @maggieNYT:
    Adam, I think you’re being generous with “by tomorrow.”

    I see we’re getting their usual rigorous reporting. What a shame that they now have “liveblogs” so they can set the narrative in real time instead of, you know, after the hearing. God forbid anyone should listen to it without The Narrators.

    For people who spent 16 solid months covering Hillary Clinton’s email management to the exclusion of anything else they’re very easily bored with Trump scandals.

  142. 142.

    MomSense

    @lamh36:

    I stan for Pelosi, but when she does retire, I think it will be Hakeem Jeffries. He’s the House Democratic Chair, wicked smart and in the workhorse not showhorse model. I think he would be an excellent Speaker and certainly Pelosi has a lot of confidence in his abilities.

  146. 146.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay: Habs had something even worse up earlier, maybe about the hearing being fine for the White House. Couldn’t copy it, but wish I had. She is a nightmare.

  147. 147.

    O. Felix Culpa

    The headline from the not-liberal Chicago Tribune: Robert Mueller says Trump was not exonerated, affirms presidents can be charged after they leave office. Seems like an accurate encapsulation of the testimony and not at all Trump-friendly.

  148. 148.

    Yarrow

    This is a great press conference. Nancy SMASH: “Patriotism not politics.” Nadler: “This president has a totalitarian mindset and we must save our democracy” (paraphrasing). As noted above, Cummings brought the fire. Schiff echoes Pelosi, “we need the strongest possible case.”

    They’re getting their ducks in a row.

  155. 155.

    rp

    This is what I was hoping to see from Pelosi. She doesn’t have to hold an impeachment vote NOW, but I wanted to see her lay out the process and strategy, and I think she (and the others) have done that.

  156. 156.

    lamh36

    EXACTLY!

    To us dialed in folks it looks cut and dry but to the casual viewer who we NEED to be paying attention…it’s not so damn cut and fuqn dry. But folks letting emotions get in the the way of common sense and political cunning/strategy.

    PELOSI: The stronger our case is the worse the Senate will look if they let [Trump] off the hook.
    https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1154151621976317952?s=21

  157. 157.

    Elizabelle

    It was not a long press conference. I would love if a clip of its entirety was up as soon as available. (Adam? Betty? Anne?)

    They did not bloviate. Straight to the point. And Elijah Cummings’ words will warm your hearts, and stiffen your spines.

  158. 158.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I thought it was kind of nice that he couldn’t recall who appointed him, Reagan or Bush. Nice in a sort of government service, humble way. Like “oh, I don’t know- it was one of them”. Because that’s his reputation, right? That the flavor of President doesn’t matter?
    I don’t know Baud, is that really a “gotcha”? Reagan or Bush? It doesn’t mean anything. NPR were doing their horrible hushed tone, fake-concern thing, like he has dementia.I mean, he’s no Sean Hannity, but is that what we want? In a prosecutor? I don’t. I think that’s a disaster.
    It’s very disheartening. They’re all horrible.

  159. 159.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    If only there were people who could delve into the substantive issues and explain for the American people the context and significance of the testimony. And it would be even better if there were some sort of delivery mechanism so that this information could be disseminated to the public.

  163. 163.

    Elizabelle

    @Yarrow: You’ve been missed.

    ====

    Also: WRT presser: Adam Schiff has spoken frequently today of our election being 8 months off, and we are not cyber-prepared. That’s chilling. Those GOP dolts today — with exception of Will Hurd — are not going to do shit.

  164. 164.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Mueller should have brought a peach for lunch and placed it on the table in front of him as he testified.

  167. 167.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    Trip Gabriel
    ‏@tripgabriel
    8h8 hours ago
    More
    NYT colleagues reax to Mueller:
    @adamgoldmanNYT:
    So far, this hearing is not revealing new ground…By tomorrow it could be forgotten in this frenetic news cycle.
    @maggieNYT:
    Adam, I think you’re being generous with “by tomorrow.”

    This is not journalism. It’s not punditry. It’s just the adolescent stammering of bored, cynical hacks.

    CBS news radio did a headline summary of the hearings. They noted that Trump gave a “heated reaction to Mueller,” and then provided a long audio clip of Trump’s ranting. It would have been sufficient to note that Trump angrily reacted to Mueller and not had any Trump sound bite at all, since Trump did not say anything new or factual.

  168. 168.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay: All the Democratic rep had to do was to mention the year, and Mueller and those watching at home would have figured out the POTUS. Interesting that Mueller apparently has not dwelled on being appointed by Reagan for years.

    I did like how Mueller shortly after answered with “George Bush the First.” That was amusing. I think he might have been a tad rattled for not remembering about Reagan.

  170. 170.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    I think I could have told them “liveblogging” a hearing would be horrible. You have to listen to hearings and I believe you’re supposed to wait until they’re concluded before analyzing them, for the very key and important reason that the testimony hasn’t been given yet.

  171. 171.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    Debbie and I would break it down for you but there’s not enough blood pressure medication in the world to make it safe for us to do so.

  176. 176.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Kay: Axis Sally was tried at Nuremberg. In a just society, Haberman would be locked up in The Hague.

  177. 177.

    debbie

    @MomSense:

    LOL!

    Suffice it to say Steve Inskeep should be exiled to a remote island and Rachel Martin to a frontline position in the Space Force.

  178. 178.

    Brachiator

    What I’ve learned from a very quick look at the hearings coverage is that the Democrats cannot be trusted because they are all socialists, and Trump is exoneratied even though Mueller did not have the power to exonerate him. Or something like that.

  180. 180.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    Well, I mean, partisan Republicans would never forget the difference between God Reagan and Loser Bush, but Mueller might! If he’s actually a public servant it shouldn’t really matter. And, as it turned out it didn’t, because he’s clearly a Republican and that was inexplicably and mysteriously used against him.
    I wonder about that sometimes with Trump. Why do normal Republicans bother? They’re The Enemy too. They must know this by now. I just wouldn’t stick around for this abuse. Who needs this?
    The only thing I personally remember about Ronald Reagan was that he taxed tipped income, which was probably my first incoherent rage at the plutocrats. I thought “me? I have NOTHING. I have…this stupid frilly apron and a shitty car. They’re going after ME?”
    Maybe it was Bush. Who knows.

  181. 181.

    PJ

    @Jay: So far the only thing in the Steele report which the Mueller report contradicts (or any real evidence contradicts) is the claim that Cohen met with Russian agents in Prague (which I think probably did happen in the Czech Republic, if not in Prague – lots of Russkies in Karlovy Vary, which is right near the German border . . .)

  182. 182.

    James E Powell

    Just yesterday, on Cole’s Day at the Orchard thread, I mentioned how I miss thunderstorms since I left Ohio. And who could have predicted? Right now I’m in the middle of a big one right here in Lake Elsinore CA. I don’t remember it ever raining in the summer here, let alone a thunderstorm and downpour. The dogs are not at all amused.

  184. 184.

    joel hanes

    Reagan … taxed tipped income

    and Social Security benefits, which had never been done.

  185. 185.

    Kay

    You know, Trump’s lucky. He got a decent prosecutor. He coulda got a real piece of shit like Ken Starr. Starr was very slick. He had that admirable ability to lie his ass off on tv that all these people seem to admire so much. That ridiculous hack, “Judge Starr”, who went on to such stellar heights of legal brilliance, smearing the 13 year old victims of his scumbag client.

    Trump should count his fucking blessings. He got a good draw.

  187. 187.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay: Good Lord, there were a lot of Republicans from Ohio on those committees. Nasty men, every one that I recall.

    I felt so badly for you.

  190. 190.

    Jay

    @PJ:

    Technically, the Meuller Report doesn’t disprove that Cohen met with Russian Agents in Prague,

    It doesn’t prove that Cohen met with Russian Agents in Prague.

  192. 192.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    Oh, don’t. I made my own decisions. The only place I would move is Michigan, and it’s a small town like this one but close to Lake Michigan rather than Lake Erie. I’m an extremely boring person and I like it here. I think I MAYBE could have moved to California when I was young, I love California, but I have no desire to do it now. I go once a year.

  193. 193.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Aaron Rupar @ atrupar
    TRUMP: “If you listen to the internet, this was one of the worst performances in the history of our country … it was a fake set of facts that the Democrats used, and others, to try and do really an illegal overthrow, but we’re going find out about that.”

    “Everyone I haven’t blocked on twitter agrees with me, and Kellyanne agrees….

  195. 195.

    joel hanes

    @Kay:

    it made me a liberal

    Edmund Pettus bridge and Lester Maddox axehandles and the integration of Ole Miss for me. And then I read _Black_Like_Me_ and never really recovered.

  196. 196.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Manu Raju @ mkraju
    Not all Dems were moved by Mueller. Rep. Jeff Van Drew, a freshman from New Jersey swing district, said he’s not ready to jump on impeachment train
    “While not everything is perfect, it’s sort of time to work on other issues,” Van Drew told me

    Others who have resisted are moving closer. “I think we’re getting very close to the point where it will be unavoidable to do an impeachment inquiry,” Sean Malloney told me

    that’s the wealthy NYC suburbs vs south New Jersey, do I have that right? Is the name George Norcross relevant to Van Drew’s cowardice?

  198. 198.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kay: @Kay: @maggieNYT:
    Adam, I think you’re being generous with “by tomorrow.”
    Then of course Herself got very indignant when twitter roasted her smug, Savvy snark

  200. 200.

    JPL

    @Kay: Years ago one of my sons was touting yahoo news or some other, so I said I did go to other sources beside the times and the post such as bbc. His reply was you like boring right, and I agreed. Boring is good.

  201. 201.

    Brachiator

    @Baud:

    I’ve always speculated that it would be in the fall. Mnemosyne said after Labor Day.

    There’s a joke in here somewhere about “no white supremacy after Labor Day.”

  207. 207.

    E

    Please, NO evening slot for Wallace. She’s good now because she hates Trump. She is STILL a Republican and it comes through every now and then, especially when discussing things like health care or candidates like Sanders. Never forget she was the friggin “White House Communications Director” for Bush, an administration that lied almost as much as this one and she routinely speaks fondly of Bush.

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